WikiFur - User contributions [en]

The Rescue Centre

2012-10-11T20:10:36Z

WhiteFire: Covering it's closure.

'''The Rescue Centre''' was a place in [[Tapestries MUCK]] themed for [[zoophile]], pet and medical play, and was approved for building in April 2007.<ref>[http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=1346&start=0&S=57eef23242225d204218b7f95f44472d The Rescue Centre (zoophile/pet/medical)] on Tapestries forum.</ref>

It was removed by the owner executing an @toadme command in 2012.

== References ==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Rescue Centre, The}}

{{fictional-location-stub}}

[[Category:Tapestries locations]]
[[Category:2007 births]]

SCALF

2012-05-16T23:26:29Z

WhiteFire: /* Termination */ Again correcting biased statements.

'''Southern CALifornia Furries''' ('''SCALF''') was a mailing list started by [[WhiteFire]] which was actively hosted on [[fur.com]] from 1997(?) until 1999.

== History ==

The first two years its service saw very little service or users. In 1999, [[Crassus]] approached WhiteFire and asked if he could be the active moderator and maintainer for the list. Whitefire agreed, seeing as he was 400 miles north, living in the [[Wikipedia:San Francisco Bay Area|Bay Area]].

After the demise of [[SCFL]], its users were directed to SCALF by both [[Kitfox]] and Crassus.

==== Downtime ====

In 1999, Whitefire moved. He was unable to maintain the [[Wikipedia:Digital Signal 1|T1 connection]] at the new location, and the install problems of the new service caused fur.com's services, including SCALF to be down for a little less than a week. When fur.com was put back into service, most of its services were up within a week. However, some mailing lists had problems with upgrades on the system, including SCALF. The public news service also had to be dropped at this time due to bandwidth.

While [[BAF]] (Bay Area Furs Mailing List) was quickly fixed, SCALF remained down for several months. Its 100+ users were getting increasingly irritated with its absence, putting substantial pressure on Crassus to revive the list.

Crassus and WhiteFire argued about the service in question, including about it's ownerships, and demands for access to the machine and web hosting for the list. Eventually WhiteFire felt that Crassus' behavior on the subject had reached the level of harassment, and requested one of the other wizards of [[Tapestries MUCK]], where much of the bickering took place, grant him a [[no-contact-order|NCO]] against Crassus.

==== Termination ====

WhiteFire terminated the hosting of the list on [[fur.com]] due to what he considered unreasonable demands and harassment by Crassus. The reference to it mistakenly remained on fur.com's website until 2003 when the website was redesigned.

== SoCalFurs ==

In 2000, with the rise of [[Wikipedia:eGroups|eGroups]], the ability to maintain an email list without owning a hosting server suddenly became possible. Crassus did not create an eGroups list, not wanting to have a power struggle because of political loyalties and friendship with Kitfox.

In April of 2000, a SoCal fur named [[Alias Foxx]] who was completely untied politically, took it upon himself to create a new list which he entitled [[SoCalFurs]]. SCALF members flocked to the new mailing list in droves, ending up with a population of 100 within its first year of existence.

== External links ==

* [http://web.archive.org/web/20010201163600/www.fur.com/fur.com/services.html Outdated fur.com's service page], showing the now defunct SCALF mailing list link (retrieved April 1st, 2007 via the Internet Archive's [[Wikipedia:Wayback Machine|Wayback Machine]])
[[Category:Mailing lists]]
[[Category:California]]
[[Category:Regional groups]]
[[Category:1997 births]]
[[Category:1999 deaths]]

Talk:The Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon

2012-05-16T22:47:42Z

WhiteFire: Commenting on the featured status.

{{featured}}
(And by "best" we mean "best" in the furry sense, ie "most drama.") -- [[User:Skiltek|Tek Skiltaire]] 19:11, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
:See the link above for why it was selected. The drama you speak of actually wasn't a big part of the decision to feature the article (that section was smaller then, anyway) - but it ''is'' part of the history of the area. The article would be lessened without mentioning why there was a changeover in ownership. In this particular case I think a simplified summary is likely to be biased towards one particular point of view, so I'd rather we err on the side of giving too much information than too little. As long as nobody feels they've been unfairly represented, I don't see the problem. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
::The persons that feel unfairly represented is the side that didn't make the last edit. BOTH sides feel that the edits are unfair and inaccurate from their POV. The complete discussion of the act of toading Crassus with both side represented makes the article no longer about the place, but about a single event in it's history. This is good how? I find it rather sad that this horror was flagged as a featured article. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 18:47, 16 May 2012 (EDT)
----
I've made changes to the Dispute portion of the article to clear up some details and give more details on those sections which might be considered ambiguous and/or biased and/or subject to subsequent rumors.

I think it's also important to know that every bit of information I've posted regarding this issue is a matter of public knowledge already.

Do I admit that I was acting like an ass to Ben back then? Absolutely. I've apologized to him since then, however, apparently, there seems to still be a lot of anger on his part, however, I really dispise that he still sees this in such a way where he can alter history and spread disinformation.

The reason why I even bring up this subject is simply because it's always remained unresolved in my mind. I cared for the treehouse immensely and would have still been in charge of the place until this day, had I not allowed others to share the character password. This has affected the outcome of the treehouse since then, and the damaging of my name in many people's eyes. I've made every attempt to write this from an NPOV and historical perspective. I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and are welcome to make whatever changes they feel is necessary to make this article even more NPOV in those areas I might be biased, however, I will fight to keep this section up, because it DID happen. I WAS part of the Treehouse's history and will not be erased from it because of personal grievances. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:54, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

==Ben's Dispute==

The deleted sections were due to blaring inaccuracies made to stir up drama. They were added by Crassus, who is apparently still bitter that he no longer has a part in the treehouse, and refuses to think that his removal was in any way his own fault. So he decides to add some revised history, in an attempt to reinsert himself into the secretmoon history.
:First things first - if you're going to put up a note of this nature, be '''bold''' enough to leave it up.

:Second of all, WikiFur is not the place to resolve issues of this nature. If you have a problem with Crassus, I'd suggest taking it up with him.

:Third, do you have a source showing your statement is accurate? [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 05:13, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::First. I thought I had responded in the wrong area. Hence, why I deleted it.

:::You got it right the first time. It's almost always best to debate topics on the discussion pages - that's what they're there for. :-)

::::Force of habit.. I try to keep drama and disagreements private. I don't deal with public disagreements very well. - Ben (who is using a terminal-based web browser which won't stay logged in)

::Second. No, it's not. But airing personal drama is pretty useless, too. [[User:68.15.19.166|68.15.19.166]]

:::From what I've read, it must be at least part of the history of the Treehouse, and probably a significant part - changes between owners are often troublesome. It has meaning for at least two people. Most likely, it has affected other people as well, and is of interest to others. The story of the Treehouse is not going to be complete without it.

::Third. Well, yeah. Me. Being the current owner of the treehouse, and very much present during the whole thing, I'm pretty sure I have a pretty reliable source of information. --[[User:Bencoon|Bencoon]] 05:31, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::You are also a person who is directly involved in the dispute that is mentioned. With all due respect, we have to consider that you may be biased (just as we must consider that Crassus is probably biased). See below, but note that as always on Wikifur, presentation of evidence (newsgroup/forum postings and the like) and characterisation of disputes is the appropriate route, rather than removal of ostensibly valid information. It appears that Crassus at least attempted to do the latter. Perhaps you could do the former?

::::After a while, I got tired of cleaning up after him. But hey, I can do it again. - Ben

:Please do not attempt to just remove history because you have (eg) fallen out with another person. If that history is ''inaccurate'', you can correct it, but removing it altogether is not appropriate. Evidently there '''was''' a disagreement at one point - so please help us document it, clearly and factually, in a way that nobody can disagree with the account. If there are parts that people disagree over, you should state what one group believes, and what another group believes, and show the evidence of this belief. There are probably newsgroup postings on this topic which you could reference. Ultimately, it may come down to "X says A, and Y says B" . . . and if that's actually their positions, then it's appropriate to leave it there.

:The ultimate test is fact. If there is a statement such as "person X did Y", and it is true, then it should be in the article. To remove it without cause is wrong. From what I can see there were many such facts that were removed. Of course, perhaps you have facts of your own to add, or you would like to dispute those facts - you are welcome to do so, especially when backed up with evidence from somewhere else.

:If you feel you are in the right, have the courage of your convictions, and trust that other people will agree when presented with the unadorned facts. If you ''don't'' think they will . . . well, maybe you should reconsider your position. I am particularly troubled by your statement about Crassus "reinserting" himself into history, which implies that someone - I'm guessing yourself - removed him to start with. You cannot do that here. If he "no longer has a part", then you should specify what that part was and why things changed, not pretend he never was a part. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:48, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::'''Please remember to sign your edits on talk pages with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> for your name or <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> for your name and date/time.''' - Its very hard to follow all this without names. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 07:08, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

==Request for Deletion of History==
The history posted is inaccurate and contains personal attacks on several people. It is further written by one of the participants in the argument in an intentionally inflammatory way. It states people's reasons for their actions and provides no references to support these accusations. I could easily rewrite the article from my point of view which would end up being equally as unflattering to Crassus. Crassus's claim of writing in a neutral viewpoint is, well, rather difficult to swallow.

Is the time period important to the tree house? Sure. Should it be documented? Sure. In the format of a flame by Crassus? No. I'd rewrite it myself but it would just come out with my viewpoint on it and be no more neutral than Crassus's, though I'd like to believe a bit less inflammatory... or maybe not. I'm not sure.

But leaving what amounts to a flame stated as fact on WikiFur just tarnishes the site's reputation. IMHO. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 18:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:Firstly, I'm assuming that you mean that you wish to alter the current version's section on the history, and not to request deletion of prior revisions (commonly referred to as the "page history"). The latter would not be granted as it is not an article about a person, and there is no real-life personal information (such as phone number, names or addresses) in the history article.

:You are welcome to contribute to the article, as Crassus has done, especially if you feel you feel that it inaccurately represents people's actions or motives. Such things are hard to quantify, although it is often worthwhile stating what the people concerned ''thought'' the motives were, in order to explain their subsequent actions. Alternatively, you could comment here on specific factual errors or omissions, or wording you feel is inappropriate (though if it gets to the point where we're talking about wording, it's probably easier for you to show us the wording you feel ''is'' appropriate by just editing the article).

:As for our reputation . . . well, to be honest I'd rather the site had a reputation for inflammatory coverage of events rather than a reputation for removing such coverage when one side wrote it and the other side didn't like what they wrote. Instead, we try to warn the reader that not everyone agrees with the current treatment, which is why there's a controversy tag on that section. Of course, I'd like it far ''more'' if we had the reputation of being a site where people could come to some agreement on such topics of contention, and that is why we encourage discussion and free editing of such topics by all parties.

:It is not impossible to write an article that is both inclusive and neutral, as long as people's opinions are represented as such, and all opinions are noted. There may never be agreement on some topics, but it's certainly possible to "agree to disagree" by stating the views of both sides. The issue is getting all those people onto one page. So far, both Ben and Crassus have had a crack at it. I suggest you do so as well, if you have the time. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::You are correct that I am not referring to the page history. A bitchfest in an article is hardly reason to purge a page history.

::I fear that if I were to correct the article, even trying to remain neutral as humanly possible, it would end up causing a cycle of edits. It may be impossible for the three people who are directly involved, Ben, Crassus and myself, to ever come to a consensus on what happened. We each have very different beliefs of what went on, and even more so, WHY. And unfortunately there are very few, if any, outside observers that can give an unbiased view.

::On the subject of having a ''reputation for inflammatory coverage of events rather than a reputation for removing such coverage'' does that really carry over to what is clearly a personal attack written by one side of an argument? Clearly it is your site, and your welcome to that position, but I question it's value to the fandom your trying to serve. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 19:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::The "cycle of edits" is what makes wiki articles better. Over time, these tend to converge to a point where each party is perhaps not wholly satisfied with an article, but can at least live with its representation of their opinions. This usually works best when editors build on each other's edits rather than trying to rewrite the whole thing, although it's occasionally necessary to do so.

:::We don't want personal attacks. But we don't want to remove valid information, either, and there's a difference between stating an opinion and accepting that information as truth. If there is a personal attack - in particular, a statement of fact that is not true, and which has a defamatory result - rewrite it so that it is not a personal attack, while preserving the underlying facts that made it interesting to read in the first place.

:::Often, the only problem with an article is that the other opinions are not stated as well. It ''is'' possible to represent wildly different beliefs in the same work - e.g. you could say "WhiteFire says that he toaded Crassus's character solely on the basis of breaking the rule of character sharing, while Crassus claims that it was due to personal animosity." Both of these statements may be true at once, because they are statements about differing opinions. That is why a lot of the lines currently start like this: "Crassus viewed WhiteFire's handling of the situation as unprofessional and unfair." - rather than: "WhiteFire's handling of the situation was unprofessional and unfair." The problem is there's no counterbalancing statement of your own opinion. If there is a published statement by you on the topic, then we could refer to that, otherwise editing the article yourself to insert it is probably the most direct way. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::In case you've not already seen it, there's a large body of information on writing neutrally at [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|Wikipedia's NPOV page]]. In their terms, Crassus' opinions are probably being given undue weight, because they are included more than your own, even though they may not be presented as fact. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::::Note in this edit I removed direct quotes other than those I could verify and/or authorize for distribution. Other quoted text (such as what was claimed JadeWizard said) is a violation of the Muck's copyright to post. The two official wizard announcements I do however have the rights to release to this. It's probably not the best comprise, but it's the best I can do in a first edit. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 20:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::Thank you for your efforts - and, in particular, the addition of the official statements, which were lacking in previous versions. The article appears better now. I would note that while technically a violation of copyright, short quotes of statements made by officials for the purpose of review or commentary are normally taken to be a [http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-ip.php fair use] of those statements (as opposed to - say - copying a room or character description wholesale for use on another MUCK by someone else, which would certainly not be). Given that wizards have specific and separate accounts for their "official duties", they should probably expect that statements made by them might be published elsewhere and commented upon, just as public representatives of a company would expect to be quoted on what they said. Of course, the MUCK may have rules against doing so which could result in internal sanctions, but that is a separate matter. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::I still think having a lengthy discussion about how he was toaded/banned is a bit silly on an article where it for all rights should be a footnote: Crassus was banned from Tapestries at this time and thus not considered for ownership of the area. If anything that sort of discussion SHOULD go into the [[Crassus]] page, but that page is locked as per his request for privacy. Airing this sort of laundry elsewhere seems to violate that, in fact... of course, he wrote it in the first place, so *shrug*. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 20:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::This is really one of the disadvantages of locking pages about people - it gets hard to figure out what should and should not be included, and where. I don't like locking pages, but it seems to further our goals more than forcing people to covered in depth whether they like it or not. We avoid doing so when we feel it to be a matter of public interest (which is very rare, and even then always contentious). Of course, certain conclusions may be drawn by a person who goes to read about someone and then finds that they have declined coverage; and as you say, if someone decides to bring something up themselves elsewhere, it's fair game.

:::::::I think the information does at least help the reader understand why Crassus embarked upon a campaign of protest, though that doesn't mean they would come to the conclusion that he was right to do so. Which is, of course, the point - we want readers to understand the reasoning of others, rather than force them to a particular conclusion. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::::The number of colons involved here is making me really wish they would finish the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LiquidThreads LiquidThreads] project. Anyway...

::::::::Considering the controversial nature of the subject and the fact that he does insist on bringing up his involvement in fandom publicly in other pages I am kinda curious why that request was even granted. Taking Sibe as an example, some people who have had an involvement in fandom you've not even given a choice about their RL information (at least when it's public record.) Crassus has had a notable impact on furry fandom here and there, positive or negative at times depending on one's POV. I mean, it's no skin off my nose one way or the other since the rest of his exploits (other than this and [[SCALF]]) thankfully don't involve me personally. It just seems inconsistent to what you do with other people. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 11:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::::When I say rare, I mean really rare. There have been two key reasons so far - a history of physical violence (generally to the point where the police have been involved) that makes it seem that they could be a danger to others, or a documented history of serious art commission problems, either on the seller or buyer's side (usually nonpayment or noncompletion). A personal exclusion does not involve excising every detail, just the page about them. Impact here and there can be dealt with on the pages concerned. For example, a comic artist can ask to be excluded, but that would not preclude mentioning their name on the article about the comic (we would use their nickname if they used one). In the above two cases, the person themselves is the subject of note, so they cannot be removed. To the best of my knowledge Crassus does not fit either of these. Now, there may be other reasons that would also convince the community that an exception should be made, but if so that would be better discussed at [[Talk:Crassus]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::::::Ahhhhh, ok, I think I understand how the policy works there now. Cool. :) -[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 18:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== Cleanup ==
I did cr/lf conversion for quotations.

BTW, this pasting of MUCK logs possibly violates Tapestries nondisclosure agreement. There should be a statement from Whitefire in the article that it is OK.
::--[[User:Skiltek|Tek Skiltaire]] 21:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

:Considering [[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] added those posts [http://en.wikifur.com/w/index.php?title=The_Astonishing_Treehouse_of_the_Secret_Moon&diff=128714&oldid=126229 himself], I'd say he thinks it appropriate. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

:If you are going to add the cleanup template to the page, maybe you should post something to the talk page explaining why? Especially if it's on an article that is listed as a featured article? (Mind you I think half the article should be outright deleted, but that discussion is above.)

::One does not question why one should eat when hungry; nor does one question why birds scatter when spooked. Likewise, one does not question why an article should be cleaned up when it is a horrible mess, one simply does it.
:::[[User:Skiltek|Tek Skiltaire]] 19:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

:My approval for the wizard's comment being posted is not only (as noted above) granted implicitly by my posting it myself, but also directly mentioned by me in the above talk-spam that accompanies the article.-[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 00:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

:Oh, the edits to the width of the board postings is a good thing, it's more in keeping with what users on the Muck would actually see (most users run at around 80 characters wide.) Nice thought. Probably was also forcing the screen too wide on laptops and such. -[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 00:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

== Biased and unprovable subjects ==

It wouldn't be the first time someone's accused me of being biased in an article; and, it wouldn't be the first time I've admitted TO being biased. But here's the deal: Everyone has a bias, no matter the subject. When addressing controversial topics and articles, all one can do is make a crack at it, and eventually there will be a somewhat mediated article between multiple parties. That's the beauty of a Wiki.

I think that I was unjustly treated by an admin. He thinks that he rid his muck of a pest. Who's telling the truth?

=== Policy ===

At the time that Lori'Anne gave me her building character, neither of us knew that the character-sharing rule had changed. To the best of my knowledge, there was no announcement to existing users of policy change. When I registered my character, this is what the registration page looked like: [http://web.archive.org/web/19970713215252/www.fur.com/tapestries/registration.html 1997 Registration Page]. Somewhere between 1997 and 1999, it changed to this: [http://web.archive.org/web/19990508161518/http://www.fur.com/tapestries/ 1999 Registration Page].

My claim of the in-world policy help file is true. Whitefire is attempting to say that I'm foolish for thinking there was such a thing. Unfortunately, Whitefire has had plenty of time and power to edit and cover up the evidence. All I can say is, there was in fact an in-world policy info file at that time which specifically talked about how it was alright to share characters. It's obvious now that Whitefire had lost track of that obscure policy file, but how the heck was I supposed to know that? Both Lori and I made an honest mistake, but Whitefire thought it better to just @toad me. No group decision was made. No one got to hear my side of the issue.

Whitefire is claiming that he consulted with Blackwizard before @toading me. BS. Blackwizard wasn't even online at the time, and I was @toaded within half an hour of #mailing White. The only wiz I had spoken to before my ban was Jade, and she had lent me a wary warning about Whitefire's temper. The rest of the wiz core was in their eternal sleep-mode. There was no trial, no hearing, and to the best of my knowledge, no group decision. Bam. Toaded. If in the unlikely event that what he's saying is true, it's just more proof that he was attempting to taint an administrative decision with personal grievances. I wasn't there to defend myself.

=== Site-Banned for harassment? ===

According to Jade's bulletin post cited on the article: "he took advantage of his ability to remain on Tapestries to continue to harass and escalate the issues surrounding the original administrative action."

First off, I was never told during my @toad that I could return to the muck.

Secondly, in what way does petitioning to the public against unfair treatment constitute harassment?? In the emails sent to me directly afterward, Whitefire conducted himself in a very unprofessional manner, essentially ranting to me about how awful I was and how righteous he was. They were not "private" emails; they were administrative emails. I had not agreed to any form of non-disclosure. If he doesn't want people to see how crappy he treats others behind the scenes, he should watch his mouth a bit more. It's karma, dude.

I made the mistake of thinking that going to the Tavern and posting a bulletin with a link to the unprofessional emails he sent me would successfully call attention to his behavior. No one gave a damn, of course. I mean, it was the Tavern. Half the people hanging out there were stuck-up elitists. Whitefire thought the same. It was his given reason for demolishing the place.

=== So, what to do? ===

I'm realizing that my current attempts to further edit and balance this article are virtually impossible. I'm claiming things. He's claiming things. There's no way for either of us to prove any of this stuff. His position of power in this on-going feud is a conflict of interest. He can delete anything on the muck that he wants to and threaten me in any way he wants to. All I know is, I'm far from the only person who's held complaint against him for abusing his power.

What do we do about this article? I'm up for ideas.

--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 08:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

:From a policy point of view, if something is disputed and unverifiable, often it's better not to say anything. Taking the reader into consideration, it also makes sense; it's unlikely they wish to read about seven-year-old drama. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 08:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

::Of course, nobody's forcing our readers to read it if they don't want to. There's a reason it's at the bottom of the page. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:55, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

:I'm not quite sure what problem you're trying to state, other than pointing out some areas which are disputed assertions as opposed to accepted facts. You are welcome to edit such assertions to clarify this.
:I do think the current version of this section has undue weight due to its size. This might be helped by factoring out the statements into a separate subpage, summarizing them, and using inline references to it. It is right to keep them around, but they don't have to be taking up the space that they do. That alone would cut size by 1/3.
:I'm not too concerned about providing an ultimate resolution to an unresolved difference of opinion. Our purpose is not to seek an ultimate truth or even a happy medium in such matters (usually we've got it right when all parties are equally ''un''happy). Mutually exclusive opinions need merely be stated like any other.
:Moreover, you could both be "telling the truth" in the specific case you raise:
:*As far as I know, Tapestries MUCK is not a democratic institution, so who decides what is unjust? In that kind of system I would think it falls to those in power to make the rules, and interpret them as they see fit. Naturally those without such power might have a different view.
:*Whether or not WhiteFire's actions were unjust in your eyes (or in those of others), it appears clear that in ''his'' eyes you were "a pest". If so, it is likely that he viewed his actions as the simplest solution to the problem, and quite possible that he saw it as a good thing for the MUCK as a whole.
:Others might agree with these views - or they might not. That's what makes it a matter of opinion. Same for definitions of harassment, elitism, or the appropriate action to take when you have been toaded (in a manner you deem unjust, or otherwise). It seems like you're looking to us to resolve these questions. If so, I regret to inform you that we cannot. We were not there, we are not involved, we are not a jury to determine right or wrong; we merely attempt to report and accurately summarize viewpoints without bias or favour. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::Nah, that would be silly for me to expect you to know what to do in this situation. I just thought it fair that I leave my comments here with an open-ended question. Those who were around at the time know what happened. There were very few who paid attention. It goes with the nature of a MUCK. Everything happens behind closed doors, and I end up getting a bad rep because the head admin constantly blows his temper. It happened with myself and The Treehouse, as well as others with The Tavern, The Lining, The Mystic Stables, and The Temple of Divinity. Whenever Whitefire does something like this, there's always lots of fallout. I've just finished updating the article once again this morning. I tried really hard to cut out needless lengthy angst portions of the article and shaved it down to brass tacks. I also responded to the areas that Whitefire had edited which seemed questionable to me. I also cleaned up after his bad grammar, ambiguity, spelling, and punctuation. Honestly, I'm one to let dead dogs lie. I just get a little fumed when I come across things by happenstance and see that things are attempting to be altered again. Ohwell. Carry on. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 23:38, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::While my opinion of your edits may be equally unflattering, I think I can skip the accusations. Edited again to answer the claims made by Crassus in the article. Also see the note about dropping the ban. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]])
::GreanReaper: I would like to argue the part that is entirely about Crassus being toaded should be moved to a page about Crassus, rather than be embedded here. I do not believe that it is on-topic for the page, which is supposed to be about the tree house. The site has existed for many years, yet 90% of the article is about a single day. That seems to me to be rather unfair characterization of one of the most complaint free locations on the Muck. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]])

Talk:The Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon

2012-05-16T22:36:34Z

WhiteFire: /* So, what to do? */ Re: recent edits and the questioning even having this content on this page.

{{featured}}
(And by "best" we mean "best" in the furry sense, ie "most drama.") -- [[User:Skiltek|Tek Skiltaire]] 19:11, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
:See the link above for why it was selected. The drama you speak of actually wasn't a big part of the decision to feature the article (that section was smaller then, anyway) - but it ''is'' part of the history of the area. The article would be lessened without mentioning why there was a changeover in ownership. In this particular case I think a simplified summary is likely to be biased towards one particular point of view, so I'd rather we err on the side of giving too much information than too little. As long as nobody feels they've been unfairly represented, I don't see the problem. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
----
I've made changes to the Dispute portion of the article to clear up some details and give more details on those sections which might be considered ambiguous and/or biased and/or subject to subsequent rumors.

I think it's also important to know that every bit of information I've posted regarding this issue is a matter of public knowledge already.

Do I admit that I was acting like an ass to Ben back then? Absolutely. I've apologized to him since then, however, apparently, there seems to still be a lot of anger on his part, however, I really dispise that he still sees this in such a way where he can alter history and spread disinformation.

The reason why I even bring up this subject is simply because it's always remained unresolved in my mind. I cared for the treehouse immensely and would have still been in charge of the place until this day, had I not allowed others to share the character password. This has affected the outcome of the treehouse since then, and the damaging of my name in many people's eyes. I've made every attempt to write this from an NPOV and historical perspective. I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and are welcome to make whatever changes they feel is necessary to make this article even more NPOV in those areas I might be biased, however, I will fight to keep this section up, because it DID happen. I WAS part of the Treehouse's history and will not be erased from it because of personal grievances. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:54, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

==Ben's Dispute==

The deleted sections were due to blaring inaccuracies made to stir up drama. They were added by Crassus, who is apparently still bitter that he no longer has a part in the treehouse, and refuses to think that his removal was in any way his own fault. So he decides to add some revised history, in an attempt to reinsert himself into the secretmoon history.
:First things first - if you're going to put up a note of this nature, be '''bold''' enough to leave it up.

:Second of all, WikiFur is not the place to resolve issues of this nature. If you have a problem with Crassus, I'd suggest taking it up with him.

:Third, do you have a source showing your statement is accurate? [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 05:13, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::First. I thought I had responded in the wrong area. Hence, why I deleted it.

:::You got it right the first time. It's almost always best to debate topics on the discussion pages - that's what they're there for. :-)

::::Force of habit.. I try to keep drama and disagreements private. I don't deal with public disagreements very well. - Ben (who is using a terminal-based web browser which won't stay logged in)

::Second. No, it's not. But airing personal drama is pretty useless, too. [[User:68.15.19.166|68.15.19.166]]

:::From what I've read, it must be at least part of the history of the Treehouse, and probably a significant part - changes between owners are often troublesome. It has meaning for at least two people. Most likely, it has affected other people as well, and is of interest to others. The story of the Treehouse is not going to be complete without it.

::Third. Well, yeah. Me. Being the current owner of the treehouse, and very much present during the whole thing, I'm pretty sure I have a pretty reliable source of information. --[[User:Bencoon|Bencoon]] 05:31, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::You are also a person who is directly involved in the dispute that is mentioned. With all due respect, we have to consider that you may be biased (just as we must consider that Crassus is probably biased). See below, but note that as always on Wikifur, presentation of evidence (newsgroup/forum postings and the like) and characterisation of disputes is the appropriate route, rather than removal of ostensibly valid information. It appears that Crassus at least attempted to do the latter. Perhaps you could do the former?

::::After a while, I got tired of cleaning up after him. But hey, I can do it again. - Ben

:Please do not attempt to just remove history because you have (eg) fallen out with another person. If that history is ''inaccurate'', you can correct it, but removing it altogether is not appropriate. Evidently there '''was''' a disagreement at one point - so please help us document it, clearly and factually, in a way that nobody can disagree with the account. If there are parts that people disagree over, you should state what one group believes, and what another group believes, and show the evidence of this belief. There are probably newsgroup postings on this topic which you could reference. Ultimately, it may come down to "X says A, and Y says B" . . . and if that's actually their positions, then it's appropriate to leave it there.

:The ultimate test is fact. If there is a statement such as "person X did Y", and it is true, then it should be in the article. To remove it without cause is wrong. From what I can see there were many such facts that were removed. Of course, perhaps you have facts of your own to add, or you would like to dispute those facts - you are welcome to do so, especially when backed up with evidence from somewhere else.

:If you feel you are in the right, have the courage of your convictions, and trust that other people will agree when presented with the unadorned facts. If you ''don't'' think they will . . . well, maybe you should reconsider your position. I am particularly troubled by your statement about Crassus "reinserting" himself into history, which implies that someone - I'm guessing yourself - removed him to start with. You cannot do that here. If he "no longer has a part", then you should specify what that part was and why things changed, not pretend he never was a part. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:48, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::'''Please remember to sign your edits on talk pages with <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> for your name or <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> for your name and date/time.''' - Its very hard to follow all this without names. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 07:08, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

==Request for Deletion of History==
The history posted is inaccurate and contains personal attacks on several people. It is further written by one of the participants in the argument in an intentionally inflammatory way. It states people's reasons for their actions and provides no references to support these accusations. I could easily rewrite the article from my point of view which would end up being equally as unflattering to Crassus. Crassus's claim of writing in a neutral viewpoint is, well, rather difficult to swallow.

Is the time period important to the tree house? Sure. Should it be documented? Sure. In the format of a flame by Crassus? No. I'd rewrite it myself but it would just come out with my viewpoint on it and be no more neutral than Crassus's, though I'd like to believe a bit less inflammatory... or maybe not. I'm not sure.

But leaving what amounts to a flame stated as fact on WikiFur just tarnishes the site's reputation. IMHO. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 18:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:Firstly, I'm assuming that you mean that you wish to alter the current version's section on the history, and not to request deletion of prior revisions (commonly referred to as the "page history"). The latter would not be granted as it is not an article about a person, and there is no real-life personal information (such as phone number, names or addresses) in the history article.

:You are welcome to contribute to the article, as Crassus has done, especially if you feel you feel that it inaccurately represents people's actions or motives. Such things are hard to quantify, although it is often worthwhile stating what the people concerned ''thought'' the motives were, in order to explain their subsequent actions. Alternatively, you could comment here on specific factual errors or omissions, or wording you feel is inappropriate (though if it gets to the point where we're talking about wording, it's probably easier for you to show us the wording you feel ''is'' appropriate by just editing the article).

:As for our reputation . . . well, to be honest I'd rather the site had a reputation for inflammatory coverage of events rather than a reputation for removing such coverage when one side wrote it and the other side didn't like what they wrote. Instead, we try to warn the reader that not everyone agrees with the current treatment, which is why there's a controversy tag on that section. Of course, I'd like it far ''more'' if we had the reputation of being a site where people could come to some agreement on such topics of contention, and that is why we encourage discussion and free editing of such topics by all parties.

:It is not impossible to write an article that is both inclusive and neutral, as long as people's opinions are represented as such, and all opinions are noted. There may never be agreement on some topics, but it's certainly possible to "agree to disagree" by stating the views of both sides. The issue is getting all those people onto one page. So far, both Ben and Crassus have had a crack at it. I suggest you do so as well, if you have the time. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::You are correct that I am not referring to the page history. A bitchfest in an article is hardly reason to purge a page history.

::I fear that if I were to correct the article, even trying to remain neutral as humanly possible, it would end up causing a cycle of edits. It may be impossible for the three people who are directly involved, Ben, Crassus and myself, to ever come to a consensus on what happened. We each have very different beliefs of what went on, and even more so, WHY. And unfortunately there are very few, if any, outside observers that can give an unbiased view.

::On the subject of having a ''reputation for inflammatory coverage of events rather than a reputation for removing such coverage'' does that really carry over to what is clearly a personal attack written by one side of an argument? Clearly it is your site, and your welcome to that position, but I question it's value to the fandom your trying to serve. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 19:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::The "cycle of edits" is what makes wiki articles better. Over time, these tend to converge to a point where each party is perhaps not wholly satisfied with an article, but can at least live with its representation of their opinions. This usually works best when editors build on each other's edits rather than trying to rewrite the whole thing, although it's occasionally necessary to do so.

:::We don't want personal attacks. But we don't want to remove valid information, either, and there's a difference between stating an opinion and accepting that information as truth. If there is a personal attack - in particular, a statement of fact that is not true, and which has a defamatory result - rewrite it so that it is not a personal attack, while preserving the underlying facts that made it interesting to read in the first place.

:::Often, the only problem with an article is that the other opinions are not stated as well. It ''is'' possible to represent wildly different beliefs in the same work - e.g. you could say "WhiteFire says that he toaded Crassus's character solely on the basis of breaking the rule of character sharing, while Crassus claims that it was due to personal animosity." Both of these statements may be true at once, because they are statements about differing opinions. That is why a lot of the lines currently start like this: "Crassus viewed WhiteFire's handling of the situation as unprofessional and unfair." - rather than: "WhiteFire's handling of the situation was unprofessional and unfair." The problem is there's no counterbalancing statement of your own opinion. If there is a published statement by you on the topic, then we could refer to that, otherwise editing the article yourself to insert it is probably the most direct way. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::In case you've not already seen it, there's a large body of information on writing neutrally at [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|Wikipedia's NPOV page]]. In their terms, Crassus' opinions are probably being given undue weight, because they are included more than your own, even though they may not be presented as fact. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::::Note in this edit I removed direct quotes other than those I could verify and/or authorize for distribution. Other quoted text (such as what was claimed JadeWizard said) is a violation of the Muck's copyright to post. The two official wizard announcements I do however have the rights to release to this. It's probably not the best comprise, but it's the best I can do in a first edit. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 20:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::Thank you for your efforts - and, in particular, the addition of the official statements, which were lacking in previous versions. The article appears better now. I would note that while technically a violation of copyright, short quotes of statements made by officials for the purpose of review or commentary are normally taken to be a [http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-ip.php fair use] of those statements (as opposed to - say - copying a room or character description wholesale for use on another MUCK by someone else, which would certainly not be). Given that wizards have specific and separate accounts for their "official duties", they should probably expect that statements made by them might be published elsewhere and commented upon, just as public representatives of a company would expect to be quoted on what they said. Of course, the MUCK may have rules against doing so which could result in internal sanctions, but that is a separate matter. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::I still think having a lengthy discussion about how he was toaded/banned is a bit silly on an article where it for all rights should be a footnote: Crassus was banned from Tapestries at this time and thus not considered for ownership of the area. If anything that sort of discussion SHOULD go into the [[Crassus]] page, but that page is locked as per his request for privacy. Airing this sort of laundry elsewhere seems to violate that, in fact... of course, he wrote it in the first place, so *shrug*. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 20:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::This is really one of the disadvantages of locking pages about people - it gets hard to figure out what should and should not be included, and where. I don't like locking pages, but it seems to further our goals more than forcing people to covered in depth whether they like it or not. We avoid doing so when we feel it to be a matter of public interest (which is very rare, and even then always contentious). Of course, certain conclusions may be drawn by a person who goes to read about someone and then finds that they have declined coverage; and as you say, if someone decides to bring something up themselves elsewhere, it's fair game.

:::::::I think the information does at least help the reader understand why Crassus embarked upon a campaign of protest, though that doesn't mean they would come to the conclusion that he was right to do so. Which is, of course, the point - we want readers to understand the reasoning of others, rather than force them to a particular conclusion. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::::The number of colons involved here is making me really wish they would finish the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LiquidThreads LiquidThreads] project. Anyway...

::::::::Considering the controversial nature of the subject and the fact that he does insist on bringing up his involvement in fandom publicly in other pages I am kinda curious why that request was even granted. Taking Sibe as an example, some people who have had an involvement in fandom you've not even given a choice about their RL information (at least when it's public record.) Crassus has had a notable impact on furry fandom here and there, positive or negative at times depending on one's POV. I mean, it's no skin off my nose one way or the other since the rest of his exploits (other than this and [[SCALF]]) thankfully don't involve me personally. It just seems inconsistent to what you do with other people. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 11:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::::When I say rare, I mean really rare. There have been two key reasons so far - a history of physical violence (generally to the point where the police have been involved) that makes it seem that they could be a danger to others, or a documented history of serious art commission problems, either on the seller or buyer's side (usually nonpayment or noncompletion). A personal exclusion does not involve excising every detail, just the page about them. Impact here and there can be dealt with on the pages concerned. For example, a comic artist can ask to be excluded, but that would not preclude mentioning their name on the article about the comic (we would use their nickname if they used one). In the above two cases, the person themselves is the subject of note, so they cannot be removed. To the best of my knowledge Crassus does not fit either of these. Now, there may be other reasons that would also convince the community that an exception should be made, but if so that would be better discussed at [[Talk:Crassus]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::::::Ahhhhh, ok, I think I understand how the policy works there now. Cool. :) -[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 18:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== Cleanup ==
I did cr/lf conversion for quotations.

BTW, this pasting of MUCK logs possibly violates Tapestries nondisclosure agreement. There should be a statement from Whitefire in the article that it is OK.
::--[[User:Skiltek|Tek Skiltaire]] 21:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

:Considering [[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] added those posts [http://en.wikifur.com/w/index.php?title=The_Astonishing_Treehouse_of_the_Secret_Moon&diff=128714&oldid=126229 himself], I'd say he thinks it appropriate. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

:If you are going to add the cleanup template to the page, maybe you should post something to the talk page explaining why? Especially if it's on an article that is listed as a featured article? (Mind you I think half the article should be outright deleted, but that discussion is above.)

::One does not question why one should eat when hungry; nor does one question why birds scatter when spooked. Likewise, one does not question why an article should be cleaned up when it is a horrible mess, one simply does it.
:::[[User:Skiltek|Tek Skiltaire]] 19:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

:My approval for the wizard's comment being posted is not only (as noted above) granted implicitly by my posting it myself, but also directly mentioned by me in the above talk-spam that accompanies the article.-[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 00:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

:Oh, the edits to the width of the board postings is a good thing, it's more in keeping with what users on the Muck would actually see (most users run at around 80 characters wide.) Nice thought. Probably was also forcing the screen too wide on laptops and such. -[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 00:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

== Biased and unprovable subjects ==

It wouldn't be the first time someone's accused me of being biased in an article; and, it wouldn't be the first time I've admitted TO being biased. But here's the deal: Everyone has a bias, no matter the subject. When addressing controversial topics and articles, all one can do is make a crack at it, and eventually there will be a somewhat mediated article between multiple parties. That's the beauty of a Wiki.

I think that I was unjustly treated by an admin. He thinks that he rid his muck of a pest. Who's telling the truth?

=== Policy ===

At the time that Lori'Anne gave me her building character, neither of us knew that the character-sharing rule had changed. To the best of my knowledge, there was no announcement to existing users of policy change. When I registered my character, this is what the registration page looked like: [http://web.archive.org/web/19970713215252/www.fur.com/tapestries/registration.html 1997 Registration Page]. Somewhere between 1997 and 1999, it changed to this: [http://web.archive.org/web/19990508161518/http://www.fur.com/tapestries/ 1999 Registration Page].

My claim of the in-world policy help file is true. Whitefire is attempting to say that I'm foolish for thinking there was such a thing. Unfortunately, Whitefire has had plenty of time and power to edit and cover up the evidence. All I can say is, there was in fact an in-world policy info file at that time which specifically talked about how it was alright to share characters. It's obvious now that Whitefire had lost track of that obscure policy file, but how the heck was I supposed to know that? Both Lori and I made an honest mistake, but Whitefire thought it better to just @toad me. No group decision was made. No one got to hear my side of the issue.

Whitefire is claiming that he consulted with Blackwizard before @toading me. BS. Blackwizard wasn't even online at the time, and I was @toaded within half an hour of #mailing White. The only wiz I had spoken to before my ban was Jade, and she had lent me a wary warning about Whitefire's temper. The rest of the wiz core was in their eternal sleep-mode. There was no trial, no hearing, and to the best of my knowledge, no group decision. Bam. Toaded. If in the unlikely event that what he's saying is true, it's just more proof that he was attempting to taint an administrative decision with personal grievances. I wasn't there to defend myself.

=== Site-Banned for harassment? ===

According to Jade's bulletin post cited on the article: "he took advantage of his ability to remain on Tapestries to continue to harass and escalate the issues surrounding the original administrative action."

First off, I was never told during my @toad that I could return to the muck.

Secondly, in what way does petitioning to the public against unfair treatment constitute harassment?? In the emails sent to me directly afterward, Whitefire conducted himself in a very unprofessional manner, essentially ranting to me about how awful I was and how righteous he was. They were not "private" emails; they were administrative emails. I had not agreed to any form of non-disclosure. If he doesn't want people to see how crappy he treats others behind the scenes, he should watch his mouth a bit more. It's karma, dude.

I made the mistake of thinking that going to the Tavern and posting a bulletin with a link to the unprofessional emails he sent me would successfully call attention to his behavior. No one gave a damn, of course. I mean, it was the Tavern. Half the people hanging out there were stuck-up elitists. Whitefire thought the same. It was his given reason for demolishing the place.

=== So, what to do? ===

I'm realizing that my current attempts to further edit and balance this article are virtually impossible. I'm claiming things. He's claiming things. There's no way for either of us to prove any of this stuff. His position of power in this on-going feud is a conflict of interest. He can delete anything on the muck that he wants to and threaten me in any way he wants to. All I know is, I'm far from the only person who's held complaint against him for abusing his power.

What do we do about this article? I'm up for ideas.

--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 08:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

:From a policy point of view, if something is disputed and unverifiable, often it's better not to say anything. Taking the reader into consideration, it also makes sense; it's unlikely they wish to read about seven-year-old drama. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 08:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

::Of course, nobody's forcing our readers to read it if they don't want to. There's a reason it's at the bottom of the page. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:55, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

:I'm not quite sure what problem you're trying to state, other than pointing out some areas which are disputed assertions as opposed to accepted facts. You are welcome to edit such assertions to clarify this.
:I do think the current version of this section has undue weight due to its size. This might be helped by factoring out the statements into a separate subpage, summarizing them, and using inline references to it. It is right to keep them around, but they don't have to be taking up the space that they do. That alone would cut size by 1/3.
:I'm not too concerned about providing an ultimate resolution to an unresolved difference of opinion. Our purpose is not to seek an ultimate truth or even a happy medium in such matters (usually we've got it right when all parties are equally ''un''happy). Mutually exclusive opinions need merely be stated like any other.
:Moreover, you could both be "telling the truth" in the specific case you raise:
:*As far as I know, Tapestries MUCK is not a democratic institution, so who decides what is unjust? In that kind of system I would think it falls to those in power to make the rules, and interpret them as they see fit. Naturally those without such power might have a different view.
:*Whether or not WhiteFire's actions were unjust in your eyes (or in those of others), it appears clear that in ''his'' eyes you were "a pest". If so, it is likely that he viewed his actions as the simplest solution to the problem, and quite possible that he saw it as a good thing for the MUCK as a whole.
:Others might agree with these views - or they might not. That's what makes it a matter of opinion. Same for definitions of harassment, elitism, or the appropriate action to take when you have been toaded (in a manner you deem unjust, or otherwise). It seems like you're looking to us to resolve these questions. If so, I regret to inform you that we cannot. We were not there, we are not involved, we are not a jury to determine right or wrong; we merely attempt to report and accurately summarize viewpoints without bias or favour. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::Nah, that would be silly for me to expect you to know what to do in this situation. I just thought it fair that I leave my comments here with an open-ended question. Those who were around at the time know what happened. There were very few who paid attention. It goes with the nature of a MUCK. Everything happens behind closed doors, and I end up getting a bad rep because the head admin constantly blows his temper. It happened with myself and The Treehouse, as well as others with The Tavern, The Lining, The Mystic Stables, and The Temple of Divinity. Whenever Whitefire does something like this, there's always lots of fallout. I've just finished updating the article once again this morning. I tried really hard to cut out needless lengthy angst portions of the article and shaved it down to brass tacks. I also responded to the areas that Whitefire had edited which seemed questionable to me. I also cleaned up after his bad grammar, ambiguity, spelling, and punctuation. Honestly, I'm one to let dead dogs lie. I just get a little fumed when I come across things by happenstance and see that things are attempting to be altered again. Ohwell. Carry on. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 23:38, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::While my opinion of your edits may be equally unflattering, I think I can skip the accusations. Edited again to answer the claims made by Crassus in the article. Also see the note about dropping the ban. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]])
::GreanReaper: I would like to argue the part that is entirely about Crassus being toaded should be moved to a page about Crassus, rather than be embedded here. I do not believe that it is on-topic for the page, which is supposed to be about the tree house. The site has existed for many years, yet 90% of the article is about a single day. That seems to me to be rather unfair characterization of one of the most complaint free locations on the Muck. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]])

The Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon

2012-05-16T22:11:18Z

WhiteFire: /* Eventual resolution */ What became of Crassus on Tapestries.

'''[[Image:Treehouse.png|T]]he Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon''' (usually shortened to '''The Treehouse''', '''Secret Moon Treehouse''' or just '''Secretmoon''') is a fictional location in [[Tapestries MUCK]]. Founded by [[Lori'anne]] in mid-1999, it became well-known as a public area, and remains popular as of 2007. An associated website is home to a few of the long-term residents, as well as a mature [[ageplay]]-themed [[oekaki]].

The area's theme is that of a slightly magical treehouse, permanently lit by the moon. The treehouse proper contains a large playroom, as well as a well-appointed bathroom and observation deck. Higher branches hold secondary sleeping platforms, along with a watchtower, while the hollowed-out basement of the tree hides an underground ball-pit. Surrounding areas include a grassy glade, a lake and a secluded pool.

In late 2000 the Treehouse became the focus of conflict between then-owner [[Crassus]] and maintainer [[Ben Raccoon]]. Escalation of the conflict led to a suspension of control, as changes in MUCK rules had rendered the existing shared-character power structure illegal. Ben was given sole ownership of the region by Tapestries [[wizard]]s a few months later, and remains in charge to this day.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}
* '''Website:''' http://secretmoon.org/
* '''Founded:''' May 1999
* '''Website started:''' 14 June 2000
{|
| valign="top" |
'''First Generation Staff''':
|
* '''Founder:''' [[Lori'anne]]
* '''Maintainers:''' [[Crassus]] and [[Sarah Skunkie]]
|-
| valign="top" |
'''Second Generation Staff'''
|
* '''Owner:''' Crassus
* '''Maintainers:''' [[Ben Raccoon]] and Sarah Skunkie
|-
| valign="top" |
'''Current Staff'''
|
* '''Owner:''' Ben Raccoon
|}
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
== Location and description ==

The Treehouse (''[[teleport pattern|t secretmoon]]'') is located deep within the [[Northern Forest]] outside of [[Layleaux Town]], south of [[WhiteFire]]'s mountain. It resides in an open grassy glade filled with mist and moonlight among the trees. It's a peaceful area, and young furs come from all over to play in and around the treehouse.

=== The Yard ===

The ''yard'' is the entrypoint for this area, holding the teleport pattern and links to other areas. There are usually anywhere from five to fifteen furs around at any one time - as Secret Moon is a popular "cruising" location, there is almost always someone coming or going. This can sometimes be distracting; groups typically move somewhere quieter, like the treehouse proper. One peculiarity of the yard and the surrounding area is that it's always lit by moonlight - something to do with the tree, no doubt.

=== The Tree and Basement ===

Originally, the mid and lower portions of the ''tree'' were merely hollowed out by natural means. Once the treehouse was discovered by Lori'Anne and its original occupants, things were improved. At ground level, there is a doorway which leads to a ladder carved directly into the wood that travels its entire internal length. Traveling up the ladder leads up to the treehouse built upon the trunk.

Traveling downward, the ladder leads to a hidden ''basement'' which originally housed a rather dark area.<ref>The basement [http://www.yiffstar.com/index.php?pid=4743 was not always so pleasant] ('''do''' read the warning text)</ref> Since then, it has been converted from its prior function into a [[Wikipedia:ball pit|ball pit]], perfect for those days when you've really got nothing better to do than swim around in a sea of multicoloured plastic spheres. The ball pit is also accessible by way of a slide from the treehouse. It also contains various other instruments of play and leisure, and even a fridge of its own.

The original intention for the basement was to contain and house the more objectionable play. Over time, it was decided to redesign this area, since it conflicted with the ideal that the treehouse was meant to act as a safe haven for children, not bring harm to them.

=== Treehouse and Bathroom ===

The ''treehouse'' mainroom is the nominal hub of this area, although the yard is typically busier due to the traffic brought by the teleport pattern. Bedecked in multicoloured paint and ribbons, the room is filled with furniture from the '60s, including blowup chairs, pillows and lots and lots of beanbags. On the walls are toys of all kinds, to suit all tastes, including those who like to [[BDSM|play rough]].

A slide leads to the basement, while a door leads off to the ''bathroom'', which is dominated by an large round tub set into the floor. Various soaps, oils and gels are available, along with a variety of shower-heads, hoses and nozzles. Some people spend a very long time in the bath, especially if they're with friends.

=== Deck and Playroom ===

Leaving the treehouse, visitors find a wide ''deck'' completely encircling the upper portion of the tree trunk, with plenty of places to sit or stand and admire the view. A fireman's pole offers a quick descent for those wishing to return to the yard. The tree's limbs are easily accessible from the deck - climb up into the branches, and you will find a hidden ''playroom'', where imagination rules.

=== Sleeping Platforms and Watchtower ===

You can climb off the deck of the main platform onto two ''sleeping platforms'' linked to one another by rope bridge - the second platform can only be accessed via the ground floor of the first. Most of the platforms are given over to the private rooms of Secret Moon regulars. The first platform also holds the public bedroom, while the second has a ''watchtower'', from which it's possible to see over the treetops to WhiteFire's mountain and Layleaux Town in the distance.

{| width=500 |
! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 1st platform, 1st level !! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 2nd level !! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 2nd platform, 1st level !! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 2nd level
|-
|200
|Public bedroom
|210
|[[Therin]]
|300
|[[Maylee]]
|310
|[[Aethan]]
|-
|201
|[[Neebu]]
|211
|[[Sevia]]
|301
|[[Esel]]/Dixon
|311
|[[Dougie]]
|-
|202
|[[Lori'anne]]
|212
|[[Tasho]]
|302
|''Broken''
|312
|[[Kirlin]]
|-
|203
|[[Ian Kubitza]]
|213
|[[Fidgit]]/Sethi
|303
|[[Linden]]
|313
|''Empty''
|-
|204
|[[Hatsuyuki]]
|214
|[[Leetah]]
|304
|[[Palmedo]]
|314
|[[Matrian]]
|-
|205
|[[Sedric]]
|215
|''Empty''
|305
|[[Milton]]
|315
|[[Kathleen]]
|-
|206
|[[Elix]]
|216
|[[Iyu]]
|306
|''Empty''
|316
|[[Elizabetta]]
|-
|207
|''Empty''
|217
|[[Kylat]]
|307
|[[KiKi]]
|317
|[[Forward]]
|-
|208
|[[Baki]]
|218
|[[Apache]]
|308
|''Empty''
|318
|''Empty''
|-
|209
|[[Charmy]]
|219
|[[Snuggems]]
|309
|[[Ursal]]
|319
|''Locked''
|}

=== The Lake ===

South of the treehouse lies a ''lake'' with a sandy beach with everything a young fur could wish for in the way of water sports, including floats, rafts, noodles, and a dive-in platform in the deeper areas. The beach is also suitable for paddling, or just lazing out - no need to worry about getting sunburnt, as the moon also shines here!

=== Secluded Pool ===

To the east of the lake, a wooded path leads off to a secluded ''pool'', where a flat rock provides a perfect jumping-off point into the crystal-clear spring waters. It is also a very quiet and peaceful place for those who wish to be alone, or alone with others.

The pool was added by Crassus while the treehouse was still under the ownership of Lori'Anne. The concept of the pool was to be a symbolic representation of time and the magical effects which the moon played on the area. A little-known fact about the Secluded Pool is that while the rest of the treehouse area stays locked in time stasis (providing a perpetual twilight), the pool, and the oak tree feeding from it, is locked in a sort of temporal displacement which not only allows time to flow forward (which explains the size of the oak), but also to be reversed.

Simply put, the pool can act as a kind of time machine. It can't transport you to and fro, though - it reacts to the inner wishes of the individual who bathes in it. This allows those who simply wish to have a swim to remain unaffected by the magical properties of the pool, while those who wish to either regress or advance in their age can do so.

Since time flows in this portion, the pool area also is the only area of the muck that is bathed in any form of sunlight, albeit limited by the canopy of leaves provided by the oak.

== Population ==

Given the adult theme of Tapestries, Secret Moon is particularly suited to [[ageplay]]ers, although [[babyfur]]s are known to hang out there as well.

Despite the theme, per MUCK rules every part of the Treehouse is a valid location for [[TinySex]]. [[Role-play]]ing of [[Wikipedia:Consent (BDSM)|non-consensual]] activities is frowned on in the Yard - participants in such [[scene]]s may be asked to move elsewhere, though if it's particularly well-played few are likely to complain.

== Website ==

The domain ''secretmoon.org'' was originally purchased by [[Crassus]] in response to a flame-war on alt.fan.furry regarding the nature of the Treehouse and also to secure it for possible future promotion use. Ownership of the domain was voluntarily transferred to [[Ben Raccoon]] in summer of 2000.

The website shares the same theme as the MUCK location, although they are not particularly connected content-wise. Instead, the website provides hosting and mail services for some of Secret Moon's regular players.

In January 2003 a PaintBBS/oekaki system was added, which has become a popular place for pictures of underage characters in sexual situations.

== Disputed changes of ownership ==

{{Controversial}}

A couple of months after the Treehouse became a public area, [[Lori'anne]] approached [[Crassus]] and explained she was no longer interested in Tapestries and transferred ownership of the treehouse to him. Lori'Anne granted him the password to Treespirit, the Treehouse building-quota character. She publicly announced the change of ownership onto the Treehouse bulletin board.

Crassus then met [[Ben Raccoon]] and the two became involved in a relationship. Crassus invited Ben to become co-maintainer of the Treehouse and shared the character password. Crassus became involved in several expansion projects of the Treehouse's public areas.

===Administrative Conflicts===

In January of 2000, conflicts erupted between Crassus and Ben. During a heated exchange, Crassus made a spiteful comment about deleting the Treehouse, but he realized doing so would be extremely unfair to all of the visitors. Instead, he told Ben to maintain control of the area for the time being.

After a couple months, relations settled down between the two, however, conflicts arose once again when Ben began to revert the projects that Crassus had not finished. Crassus disapproved, asking that Ben return the Treespirit character so he could finish his intended projects. Instead, Ben changed the password to disallow Crassus from using it.

Crassus lodged a complaint to [[WhiteWizard]] via internal MUCK mail, who was not online at the time of the dispute. Crassus then noticed [[JadeWizard]] was online and approached her via page. He asked for Treespirit's password to be reset because of the conflict. Jade saw this as a simple issue to resolve, asking for Treespirit's email address. Crassus informed Jade that since the character had originally belonged to Lori'Anne, the email address did not match his own. He also informed Jade that he had sent WhiteWizard a #mail regarding the issue. Crassus claims that JadeWizard warned that WhiteWizard would get very upset and suggested not to tell him.

===Crassus' Toading and Banning===

Soon after speaking with JadeWizard, WhiteWizard (Whitefire's wizard character) appeared online. Within minutes, Crassus was [[toaded]]. The official administrative reason for toading was "character sharing", but the circumstances of this toading are highly disputed by Crassus. According to the wizards other factors were considered in the toading, including violation of the Muck's Harassment policy.

At the time, Crassus believed it to be acceptable MUCK policy to share characters due to an in-world global help file called "policy" which mentioned it being acceptable to share characters. Whitefire asserts that the document never stated one way or the other. He asserted that the web character registration form clearly had a clause which made new applicants agree not to transfer characters. However, at the time Crassus created his character, the web-based registration form did not yet include such verbiage.<ref>The [http://web.archive.org/web/19970713215252/www.fur.com/tapestries/registration.html 1997 Registration Page]</ref><ref>The [http://web.archive.org/web/19990427162224/www.fur.com/tapestries/registration.html 1999 Registration Page]</ref> Crassus claimed to be unaware of it, and thus never agreed to such a clause, accusing Whitefire of bad housekeeping. The Wizards in turn state that they post announcements of policy changes, and that ignorance is not considered an excuse.

At the time all of this happened, WhiteFire had Crassus on an [[No-Contact Order]] due to a previous conflict regarding the state of the [[SCALF|SCALF mailing list]]. WhiteFire cites violations of this NCO which is considered harassment to be one of the factors considered in Crassus' toading.

*Crassus was put on ignore by Whitefire while attempting to address SCALF issues. WhiteFire describes this attempt as verbal assault.
*Five minutes after being put on #ignore, Crassus was put on an NCO for stepping into Whitefire's abode to complain about the SCALF issue. Evading page #ignore is specifically mentioned in the Muck's harassment policies.
*Crassus requested through WhiteWizard that WhiteFire drop his page #ignore of Crassus because it interfered with administrative contact ability. The Wizards note that this is further evasion of the page #ignore and harassment policy.

Prior to the toading decision, Whitefire spoke to [[BlackWizard]] for his opinion on the situation. He did so since he felt that being involved in a personal dispute with Crassus himself, he needed an outside opinion on the the course of action. Crassus has claimed that since BlackWizard was not online at the time, that he was not actually involved. WhiteFire responds that the other wizards often discuss matters with him through means other than their Wizard characters.

After hearing about Whitefire's complaints, BlackWizard asked why Crassus had not been toaded before this.

The decision to toad Crassus was made without hearing Crassus' side of the story. Crassus was briefly informed that he was being toaded, with no explanation, and was subsequently removed from the MUCK. The Wizards believe that notice of the various individual offenses should have been sufficient reason. They also admit that they will take action with out seeking the offender's opinion when they believe the offenses are clear cut.

The official statement made by the wizards is as follows:
7) JadeWizard Today -- Crassus: Toaded, Thursday October 4th 2001
From: JadeWizard 19:02:03 10/04/01 PDT
Edited by: JadeWizard 19:03:56 10/04/01 PDT

Crassus was toaded for breaking a number of policies, including participating
in 'sharing' a single character object between players and repeatedly
circumventing no-contact orders (NCOs).

This is not acceptable behavior. The character was removed, but the player
is allowed to return to Tapestries.

Please direct questions and comments to tap-wizzes@fur.com.

Crassus viewed WhiteFire's handling of the situation as unprofessional and unfair. By not even allowing to be heard before judgment, he felt WhiteFire was simply holding a grudge over unrelated events. WhiteFire contends that the events having happened on Tapestries in violation of the Muck's policies, were relevant.

Crassus, not having been made aware that he was allowed to re-register under his original character name, began a public protest and petition of his alleged unfair treatment by creating a website detailing the dispute, publicly displaying the multiple, unedited "chastising" emails he had received from WhiteFire after the toading. Crassus also used his remaining alt to post the URL of his protest website on the [[The Tavern (Tapestries)|Tavern]] message board to make people aware of the situation.

WhiteFire quickly became aware of the protest website through multiple complaints about Crassus' message board link (which was openly commented as "whiny" by apathetic Tavern regulars). He sent Crassus another email, indefinitely banning him from any of fur.com's services (including the website and newsgroups), threatening him with possible legal action if he failed to adhere to the ban, and chastised Crassus for posting private emails onto a website.

The official statement by the [[wizards]] follows:
8) JadeWizard Today -- Crassus: Banned, Thursday October 4th 2001
From: JadeWizard 08:26:00 10/05/01 PDT
Edited by: JadeWizard 08:31:52 10/05/01 PDT

Shortly after the toading of one of his characters as strict punitive action against
a number of flagrant violations of MUCK policy, Crassus began to use his alts to
generate a 'petition' with which to address other MUCK users, hoping
to generate a democratic out-cry in support of his position. As part of this
petition, which generated multiple complaints
from other users, he also disclosed private OOC/RL email, which is a violation of
privacy as defined by MUCK policy and as defined by most adults using the Internet.

The original toading did not keep Crassus from returning to the MUCK under the same
or a different name. Instead, he took advantage of his ability to remain on
Tapestries to continue to harass and escalate the issues surrounding the original
administrative action.

Crassus demonstrated that he would not respect even one of the stiffest warnings
the administration can give a user. As such, he is permanently banned from
using TapestriesMUCK.

Questions and comments may be directed to tap-wizzes@fur.com.

===Eventual resolution===

The account that held the property of the Treehouse was not removed until ownership of the intellectual property could be resolved. The account was instead locked. Finally, word reached Lori'anne and she contacted the Wizards. After a closed-door discussion between herself, Ben Raccoon, and one of the wizards, possession of the Treehouse was transferred to Ben Raccoon, and both he and Lori'anne were given a strong warning against further character sharing.

Ben Raccoon is still in possession of the Treehouse as of May 16th, 2012.

Crassus created a character on Tapestries in 2010 in violation of his ban. WhiteFire informed the Wizards to leave the account as long as it received no complaints. As of 2012, the ban is officially revoked.

===Meta Dispute===

The drama over editing this page is worthy of note itself which can be viewed both in the talk and discussion pages.

== References ==
{{rating-nc17-button}}
<references />

== External links ==
* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/744e1ad3344a67be Treehouse on Tapestries]'' - Lori'anne's response to [[Ben Bruin]]'s [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/bd86f8858a0a37ca post] about a website (now long down) promoting Secret Moon - see also [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&start=80&scoring=d&enc_author=vaXRgBkAAAAWpLTIT3RCA41USoK94-1zbadRkHY8izvoWSZmz-9hFg& other threads]
[[Category:Tapestries locations|Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon, The]][[Category:Websites|Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon, The]]

{{featured article}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon}}

The Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon

2012-05-16T22:04:04Z

WhiteFire: Removing speculation, stating opinion as opinion. Adding responses to new nonsense.

'''[[Image:Treehouse.png|T]]he Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon''' (usually shortened to '''The Treehouse''', '''Secret Moon Treehouse''' or just '''Secretmoon''') is a fictional location in [[Tapestries MUCK]]. Founded by [[Lori'anne]] in mid-1999, it became well-known as a public area, and remains popular as of 2007. An associated website is home to a few of the long-term residents, as well as a mature [[ageplay]]-themed [[oekaki]].

The area's theme is that of a slightly magical treehouse, permanently lit by the moon. The treehouse proper contains a large playroom, as well as a well-appointed bathroom and observation deck. Higher branches hold secondary sleeping platforms, along with a watchtower, while the hollowed-out basement of the tree hides an underground ball-pit. Surrounding areas include a grassy glade, a lake and a secluded pool.

In late 2000 the Treehouse became the focus of conflict between then-owner [[Crassus]] and maintainer [[Ben Raccoon]]. Escalation of the conflict led to a suspension of control, as changes in MUCK rules had rendered the existing shared-character power structure illegal. Ben was given sole ownership of the region by Tapestries [[wizard]]s a few months later, and remains in charge to this day.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}
* '''Website:''' http://secretmoon.org/
* '''Founded:''' May 1999
* '''Website started:''' 14 June 2000
{|
| valign="top" |
'''First Generation Staff''':
|
* '''Founder:''' [[Lori'anne]]
* '''Maintainers:''' [[Crassus]] and [[Sarah Skunkie]]
|-
| valign="top" |
'''Second Generation Staff'''
|
* '''Owner:''' Crassus
* '''Maintainers:''' [[Ben Raccoon]] and Sarah Skunkie
|-
| valign="top" |
'''Current Staff'''
|
* '''Owner:''' Ben Raccoon
|}
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
== Location and description ==

The Treehouse (''[[teleport pattern|t secretmoon]]'') is located deep within the [[Northern Forest]] outside of [[Layleaux Town]], south of [[WhiteFire]]'s mountain. It resides in an open grassy glade filled with mist and moonlight among the trees. It's a peaceful area, and young furs come from all over to play in and around the treehouse.

=== The Yard ===

The ''yard'' is the entrypoint for this area, holding the teleport pattern and links to other areas. There are usually anywhere from five to fifteen furs around at any one time - as Secret Moon is a popular "cruising" location, there is almost always someone coming or going. This can sometimes be distracting; groups typically move somewhere quieter, like the treehouse proper. One peculiarity of the yard and the surrounding area is that it's always lit by moonlight - something to do with the tree, no doubt.

=== The Tree and Basement ===

Originally, the mid and lower portions of the ''tree'' were merely hollowed out by natural means. Once the treehouse was discovered by Lori'Anne and its original occupants, things were improved. At ground level, there is a doorway which leads to a ladder carved directly into the wood that travels its entire internal length. Traveling up the ladder leads up to the treehouse built upon the trunk.

Traveling downward, the ladder leads to a hidden ''basement'' which originally housed a rather dark area.<ref>The basement [http://www.yiffstar.com/index.php?pid=4743 was not always so pleasant] ('''do''' read the warning text)</ref> Since then, it has been converted from its prior function into a [[Wikipedia:ball pit|ball pit]], perfect for those days when you've really got nothing better to do than swim around in a sea of multicoloured plastic spheres. The ball pit is also accessible by way of a slide from the treehouse. It also contains various other instruments of play and leisure, and even a fridge of its own.

The original intention for the basement was to contain and house the more objectionable play. Over time, it was decided to redesign this area, since it conflicted with the ideal that the treehouse was meant to act as a safe haven for children, not bring harm to them.

=== Treehouse and Bathroom ===

The ''treehouse'' mainroom is the nominal hub of this area, although the yard is typically busier due to the traffic brought by the teleport pattern. Bedecked in multicoloured paint and ribbons, the room is filled with furniture from the '60s, including blowup chairs, pillows and lots and lots of beanbags. On the walls are toys of all kinds, to suit all tastes, including those who like to [[BDSM|play rough]].

A slide leads to the basement, while a door leads off to the ''bathroom'', which is dominated by an large round tub set into the floor. Various soaps, oils and gels are available, along with a variety of shower-heads, hoses and nozzles. Some people spend a very long time in the bath, especially if they're with friends.

=== Deck and Playroom ===

Leaving the treehouse, visitors find a wide ''deck'' completely encircling the upper portion of the tree trunk, with plenty of places to sit or stand and admire the view. A fireman's pole offers a quick descent for those wishing to return to the yard. The tree's limbs are easily accessible from the deck - climb up into the branches, and you will find a hidden ''playroom'', where imagination rules.

=== Sleeping Platforms and Watchtower ===

You can climb off the deck of the main platform onto two ''sleeping platforms'' linked to one another by rope bridge - the second platform can only be accessed via the ground floor of the first. Most of the platforms are given over to the private rooms of Secret Moon regulars. The first platform also holds the public bedroom, while the second has a ''watchtower'', from which it's possible to see over the treetops to WhiteFire's mountain and Layleaux Town in the distance.

{| width=500 |
! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 1st platform, 1st level !! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 2nd level !! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 2nd platform, 1st level !! colspan=2 style="text-align:left" | 2nd level
|-
|200
|Public bedroom
|210
|[[Therin]]
|300
|[[Maylee]]
|310
|[[Aethan]]
|-
|201
|[[Neebu]]
|211
|[[Sevia]]
|301
|[[Esel]]/Dixon
|311
|[[Dougie]]
|-
|202
|[[Lori'anne]]
|212
|[[Tasho]]
|302
|''Broken''
|312
|[[Kirlin]]
|-
|203
|[[Ian Kubitza]]
|213
|[[Fidgit]]/Sethi
|303
|[[Linden]]
|313
|''Empty''
|-
|204
|[[Hatsuyuki]]
|214
|[[Leetah]]
|304
|[[Palmedo]]
|314
|[[Matrian]]
|-
|205
|[[Sedric]]
|215
|''Empty''
|305
|[[Milton]]
|315
|[[Kathleen]]
|-
|206
|[[Elix]]
|216
|[[Iyu]]
|306
|''Empty''
|316
|[[Elizabetta]]
|-
|207
|''Empty''
|217
|[[Kylat]]
|307
|[[KiKi]]
|317
|[[Forward]]
|-
|208
|[[Baki]]
|218
|[[Apache]]
|308
|''Empty''
|318
|''Empty''
|-
|209
|[[Charmy]]
|219
|[[Snuggems]]
|309
|[[Ursal]]
|319
|''Locked''
|}

=== The Lake ===

South of the treehouse lies a ''lake'' with a sandy beach with everything a young fur could wish for in the way of water sports, including floats, rafts, noodles, and a dive-in platform in the deeper areas. The beach is also suitable for paddling, or just lazing out - no need to worry about getting sunburnt, as the moon also shines here!

=== Secluded Pool ===

To the east of the lake, a wooded path leads off to a secluded ''pool'', where a flat rock provides a perfect jumping-off point into the crystal-clear spring waters. It is also a very quiet and peaceful place for those who wish to be alone, or alone with others.

The pool was added by Crassus while the treehouse was still under the ownership of Lori'Anne. The concept of the pool was to be a symbolic representation of time and the magical effects which the moon played on the area. A little-known fact about the Secluded Pool is that while the rest of the treehouse area stays locked in time stasis (providing a perpetual twilight), the pool, and the oak tree feeding from it, is locked in a sort of temporal displacement which not only allows time to flow forward (which explains the size of the oak), but also to be reversed.

Simply put, the pool can act as a kind of time machine. It can't transport you to and fro, though - it reacts to the inner wishes of the individual who bathes in it. This allows those who simply wish to have a swim to remain unaffected by the magical properties of the pool, while those who wish to either regress or advance in their age can do so.

Since time flows in this portion, the pool area also is the only area of the muck that is bathed in any form of sunlight, albeit limited by the canopy of leaves provided by the oak.

== Population ==

Given the adult theme of Tapestries, Secret Moon is particularly suited to [[ageplay]]ers, although [[babyfur]]s are known to hang out there as well.

Despite the theme, per MUCK rules every part of the Treehouse is a valid location for [[TinySex]]. [[Role-play]]ing of [[Wikipedia:Consent (BDSM)|non-consensual]] activities is frowned on in the Yard - participants in such [[scene]]s may be asked to move elsewhere, though if it's particularly well-played few are likely to complain.

== Website ==

The domain ''secretmoon.org'' was originally purchased by [[Crassus]] in response to a flame-war on alt.fan.furry regarding the nature of the Treehouse and also to secure it for possible future promotion use. Ownership of the domain was voluntarily transferred to [[Ben Raccoon]] in summer of 2000.

The website shares the same theme as the MUCK location, although they are not particularly connected content-wise. Instead, the website provides hosting and mail services for some of Secret Moon's regular players.

In January 2003 a PaintBBS/oekaki system was added, which has become a popular place for pictures of underage characters in sexual situations.

== Disputed changes of ownership ==

{{Controversial}}

A couple of months after the Treehouse became a public area, [[Lori'anne]] approached [[Crassus]] and explained she was no longer interested in Tapestries and transferred ownership of the treehouse to him. Lori'Anne granted him the password to Treespirit, the Treehouse building-quota character. She publicly announced the change of ownership onto the Treehouse bulletin board.

Crassus then met [[Ben Raccoon]] and the two became involved in a relationship. Crassus invited Ben to become co-maintainer of the Treehouse and shared the character password. Crassus became involved in several expansion projects of the Treehouse's public areas.

===Administrative Conflicts===

In January of 2000, conflicts erupted between Crassus and Ben. During a heated exchange, Crassus made a spiteful comment about deleting the Treehouse, but he realized doing so would be extremely unfair to all of the visitors. Instead, he told Ben to maintain control of the area for the time being.

After a couple months, relations settled down between the two, however, conflicts arose once again when Ben began to revert the projects that Crassus had not finished. Crassus disapproved, asking that Ben return the Treespirit character so he could finish his intended projects. Instead, Ben changed the password to disallow Crassus from using it.

Crassus lodged a complaint to [[WhiteWizard]] via internal MUCK mail, who was not online at the time of the dispute. Crassus then noticed [[JadeWizard]] was online and approached her via page. He asked for Treespirit's password to be reset because of the conflict. Jade saw this as a simple issue to resolve, asking for Treespirit's email address. Crassus informed Jade that since the character had originally belonged to Lori'Anne, the email address did not match his own. He also informed Jade that he had sent WhiteWizard a #mail regarding the issue. Crassus claims that JadeWizard warned that WhiteWizard would get very upset and suggested not to tell him.

===Crassus' Toading and Banning===

Soon after speaking with JadeWizard, WhiteWizard (Whitefire's wizard character) appeared online. Within minutes, Crassus was [[toaded]]. The official administrative reason for toading was "character sharing", but the circumstances of this toading are highly disputed by Crassus. According to the wizards other factors were considered in the toading, including violation of the Muck's Harassment policy.

At the time, Crassus believed it to be acceptable MUCK policy to share characters due to an in-world global help file called "policy" which mentioned it being acceptable to share characters. Whitefire asserts that the document never stated one way or the other. He asserted that the web character registration form clearly had a clause which made new applicants agree not to transfer characters. However, at the time Crassus created his character, the web-based registration form did not yet include such verbiage.<ref>The [http://web.archive.org/web/19970713215252/www.fur.com/tapestries/registration.html 1997 Registration Page]</ref><ref>The [http://web.archive.org/web/19990427162224/www.fur.com/tapestries/registration.html 1999 Registration Page]</ref> Crassus claimed to be unaware of it, and thus never agreed to such a clause, accusing Whitefire of bad housekeeping. The Wizards in turn state that they post announcements of policy changes, and that ignorance is not considered an excuse.

At the time all of this happened, WhiteFire had Crassus on an [[No-Contact Order]] due to a previous conflict regarding the state of the [[SCALF|SCALF mailing list]]. WhiteFire cites violations of this NCO which is considered harassment to be one of the factors considered in Crassus' toading.

*Crassus was put on ignore by Whitefire while attempting to address SCALF issues. WhiteFire describes this attempt as verbal assault.
*Five minutes after being put on #ignore, Crassus was put on an NCO for stepping into Whitefire's abode to complain about the SCALF issue. Evading page #ignore is specifically mentioned in the Muck's harassment policies.
*Crassus requested through WhiteWizard that WhiteFire drop his page #ignore of Crassus because it interfered with administrative contact ability. The Wizards note that this is further evasion of the page #ignore and harassment policy.

Prior to the toading decision, Whitefire spoke to [[BlackWizard]] for his opinion on the situation. He did so since he felt that being involved in a personal dispute with Crassus himself, he needed an outside opinion on the the course of action. Crassus has claimed that since BlackWizard was not online at the time, that he was not actually involved. WhiteFire responds that the other wizards often discuss matters with him through means other than their Wizard characters.

After hearing about Whitefire's complaints, BlackWizard asked why Crassus had not been toaded before this.

The decision to toad Crassus was made without hearing Crassus' side of the story. Crassus was briefly informed that he was being toaded, with no explanation, and was subsequently removed from the MUCK. The Wizards believe that notice of the various individual offenses should have been sufficient reason. They also admit that they will take action with out seeking the offender's opinion when they believe the offenses are clear cut.

The official statement made by the wizards is as follows:
7) JadeWizard Today -- Crassus: Toaded, Thursday October 4th 2001
From: JadeWizard 19:02:03 10/04/01 PDT
Edited by: JadeWizard 19:03:56 10/04/01 PDT

Crassus was toaded for breaking a number of policies, including participating
in 'sharing' a single character object between players and repeatedly
circumventing no-contact orders (NCOs).

This is not acceptable behavior. The character was removed, but the player
is allowed to return to Tapestries.

Please direct questions and comments to tap-wizzes@fur.com.

Crassus viewed WhiteFire's handling of the situation as unprofessional and unfair. By not even allowing to be heard before judgment, he felt WhiteFire was simply holding a grudge over unrelated events. WhiteFire contends that the events having happened on Tapestries in violation of the Muck's policies, were relevant.

Crassus, not having been made aware that he was allowed to re-register under his original character name, began a public protest and petition of his alleged unfair treatment by creating a website detailing the dispute, publicly displaying the multiple, unedited "chastising" emails he had received from WhiteFire after the toading. Crassus also used his remaining alt to post the URL of his protest website on the [[The Tavern (Tapestries)|Tavern]] message board to make people aware of the situation.

WhiteFire quickly became aware of the protest website through multiple complaints about Crassus' message board link (which was openly commented as "whiny" by apathetic Tavern regulars). He sent Crassus another email, indefinitely banning him from any of fur.com's services (including the website and newsgroups), threatening him with possible legal action if he failed to adhere to the ban, and chastised Crassus for posting private emails onto a website.

The official statement by the [[wizards]] follows:
8) JadeWizard Today -- Crassus: Banned, Thursday October 4th 2001
From: JadeWizard 08:26:00 10/05/01 PDT
Edited by: JadeWizard 08:31:52 10/05/01 PDT

Shortly after the toading of one of his characters as strict punitive action against
a number of flagrant violations of MUCK policy, Crassus began to use his alts to
generate a 'petition' with which to address other MUCK users, hoping
to generate a democratic out-cry in support of his position. As part of this
petition, which generated multiple complaints
from other users, he also disclosed private OOC/RL email, which is a violation of
privacy as defined by MUCK policy and as defined by most adults using the Internet.

The original toading did not keep Crassus from returning to the MUCK under the same
or a different name. Instead, he took advantage of his ability to remain on
Tapestries to continue to harass and escalate the issues surrounding the original
administrative action.

Crassus demonstrated that he would not respect even one of the stiffest warnings
the administration can give a user. As such, he is permanently banned from
using TapestriesMUCK.

Questions and comments may be directed to tap-wizzes@fur.com.

===Eventual resolution===

The account that held the property of the Treehouse was not removed until ownership of the intellectual property could be resolved. The account was instead locked. Finally, word reached Lori'anne and she contacted the Wizards. After a closed-door discussion between herself, Ben Raccoon, and one of the wizards, possession of the Treehouse was transferred to Ben Raccoon, and both he and Lori'anne were given a strong warning against further character sharing.

Ben Raccoon is still in possession of the Treehouse as of May 16th, 2012.

===Meta Dispute===

The drama over editing this page is worthy of note itself which can be viewed both in the talk and discussion pages.

== References ==
{{rating-nc17-button}}
<references />

== External links ==
* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/744e1ad3344a67be Treehouse on Tapestries]'' - Lori'anne's response to [[Ben Bruin]]'s [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/bd86f8858a0a37ca post] about a website (now long down) promoting Secret Moon - see also [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&start=80&scoring=d&enc_author=vaXRgBkAAAAWpLTIT3RCA41USoK94-1zbadRkHY8izvoWSZmz-9hFg& other threads]
[[Category:Tapestries locations|Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon, The]][[Category:Websites|Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon, The]]

{{featured article}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon}}

WhiteFire

2012-03-16T02:48:52Z

WhiteFire: /* External links */ This page didn't have enough catagories. :3

{{copyedit}}
[[Image:Pt-wf4-www-small.gif|right]]
'''WhiteFire''' (or '''Peter Torkelson''') is a Unix systems administrator and software developer who has had an interest in [[Furry]] since the age of sixteen when he first found a copy of the [[Xanadu (comic)|Xanadu]] comics. Since that time, he has become more involved in [[fandom]] in both his real life and on the Internet.

He primarily associates as a [[dragon]], [[snowleopard]], [[fox]], or sometimes a [[raccoon]]. His personal character is also named WhiteFire and is a fox-dragon [[hybrid]].

==Fandom involvement==
WhiteFire is the head [[wizard]] and owner of [[Tapestries MUCK]]. He has two widely known [[character]]s on Tapestries: WhiteFire and his administration character '''WhiteWizard'''.

WhiteFire founded the [[Furry Peace]] movement in 1998 and continues to support the movement's ideals.

He was on the original board of directors of [[Anthropomorphic Arts and Education]] (parent company of [[Further Confusion]]) and retired after more than ten years service.

He operates both [[fur.com]] and the now defunct ''[[got fox|got fox?]]''.

Formerly a [[GM]] for the [[Second Life]] furry/fantasy role-play sim [[Lismore]] as the character [[Glasere]].

==Artwork and writing==

WhiteFire is an [[artist]] who posts his [[art]] on [[Fur Affinity]] and in the past on [[Furrynet]] and the [[VCL]].

He is also a novice [[writer]] whose stories can be found at [[Yiffstar]] and [[Fur Affinity]].

==WhiteFire the character==
WhiteFire's original incarnation was on [[FurryMUCK]] in the form of a white-scaled dragon of some 60 feet in length. At the time he was unable to alter his appearance, often showing up in parts of the Muck 'in head only' to talk to people in outdoor cafes and the like.

Over time he had the desire to take a form more compatible with the smaller creatures he had come to associate with, so with the help of one Elias-Lan he learned the basics of shapeshifting. The lessons however were never completed, and he still has a limited selection of forms he can take, rather than being able to take any shape he wishes at will. Most are copied from other people, such as his original, a Fox'taur form copied from [[Shaterri]], or one he has spent a great deal of time modifying in a dream state.

As of this time he is most commonly seen on Tapestries MUCK in his self-named "fagon" form, which is a cross of [[fox]] and [[dragon]]. The pun is intentional. He in fact hardly changes out of the form any more, and it can be argued that it may have become his 'true' form at this point.

The fagon form is an [[anthro]]-fox with the basic build of a red fox, however snow white except for ears, 'gloves' and 'socks.' It also has two small horns just above the forehead, and relatively large dragon-like wings.

==Did you know?==
WhiteFire's name was derived from an early [[MUCK]] character who was a white-scaled dragon which could only communicate telepathically through images and ideas. When describing himself he used the picture-terms "white fire" (for his breath weapon), and the name stuck. The character was meant as a roleplay character, but eventually became so associated with him that it became his name in Fandom as well.

== External links ==
{{Contributor}}
{{Rating-nc17-button}}
* [http://www.fur.com/wfire/home/ WhiteFire's website]
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/-whitefire-/ WhiteFire] on [[Fur Affinity]]
* [http://www.yiffstar.com/index.yiff?action=authorsearch&authorsearch=WhiteFire%20Sondergaard WhiteFire's stories] on [[Yiffstar]]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/WhiteFire/ WhiteFire] on [[VCL]]
* [http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/whitefire/ WhiteFire] on [[y!Gallery]] (no longer being updated)

[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Writers]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Tapestries characters]][[Category:FurryMUCK characters]][[Category:Fox-Dragon characters]]
[[Category:Snow Leopard-hybrid characters]][[Category:Snow Leopard characters]]

[[sv:WhiteFire]]

Lismore

2012-03-16T02:39:19Z

WhiteFire: Fixed the stub. Fixed my URL format.

{{mp-world-stub}}
Lismore is a [[Second Life]] [[Role-Playing]] [[SIM]] set in a fantasy/furry setting.

==External Links==
* [http://sculptyworks.com/lismore/index.php Lismore Official Forums]
* [http://lismore.fur.com/wiki/Lismore Depricated Lismore Wiki and Forums]

Lismore

2012-03-16T02:38:13Z

WhiteFire: Initial revision, mostly a stub with some external links.

{{Multiplayer world stub}}
Lismore is a [[Second Life]] [[Role-Playing]] [[SIM]] set in a fantasy/furry setting.

==External Links==
* [[http://sculptyworks.com/lismore/index.php Lismore Official Forums]]
* [[http://lismore.fur.com/wiki/Lismore Depricated Lismore Wiki and Forums]]

WhiteFire

2012-03-16T02:30:54Z

WhiteFire: /* Fandom involvement */ Mentioned Lismore

WhiteFire

2012-03-16T02:28:48Z

WhiteFire: Enhanced the AAE line, added mention of gotfox?'s defunct status.

{{copyedit}}
[[Image:Pt-wf4-www-small.gif|right]]
'''WhiteFire''' (or '''Peter Torkelson''') is a Unix systems administrator and software developer who has had an interest in [[Furry]] since the age of sixteen when he first found a copy of the [[Xanadu (comic)|Xanadu]] comics. Since that time, he has become more involved in [[fandom]] in both his real life and on the Internet.

He primarily associates as a [[dragon]], [[snowleopard]], [[fox]], or sometimes a [[raccoon]]. His personal character is also named WhiteFire and is a fox-dragon [[hybrid]].

==Fandom involvement==
WhiteFire is the head [[wizard]] and owner of [[Tapestries MUCK]]. He has two widely known [[character]]s on Tapestries: WhiteFire and his administration character '''WhiteWizard'''.

WhiteFire founded the [[Furry Peace]] movement in 1998 and continues to support the movement's ideals.

He was on the original board of directors of [[Anthropomorphic Arts and Education]] (parent company of [[Further Confusion]]) and retired after more than ten years service.

He operates both [[fur.com]] and the now defunct ''[[got fox|got fox?]]''.

==Artwork and writing==

WhiteFire is an [[artist]] who posts his [[art]] on [[Fur Affinity]] and in the past on [[Furrynet]] and the [[VCL]].

He is also a novice [[writer]] whose stories can be found at [[Yiffstar]] and [[Fur Affinity]].

==WhiteFire the character==
WhiteFire's original incarnation was on [[FurryMUCK]] in the form of a white-scaled dragon of some 60 feet in length. At the time he was unable to alter his appearance, often showing up in parts of the Muck 'in head only' to talk to people in outdoor cafes and the like.

Over time he had the desire to take a form more compatible with the smaller creatures he had come to associate with, so with the help of one Elias-Lan he learned the basics of shapeshifting. The lessons however were never completed, and he still has a limited selection of forms he can take, rather than being able to take any shape he wishes at will. Most are copied from other people, such as his original, a Fox'taur form copied from [[Shaterri]], or one he has spent a great deal of time modifying in a dream state.

As of this time he is most commonly seen on Tapestries MUCK in his self-named "fagon" form, which is a cross of [[fox]] and [[dragon]]. The pun is intentional. He in fact hardly changes out of the form any more, and it can be argued that it may have become his 'true' form at this point.

The fagon form is an [[anthro]]-fox with the basic build of a red fox, however snow white except for ears, 'gloves' and 'socks.' It also has two small horns just above the forehead, and relatively large dragon-like wings.

==Did you know?==
WhiteFire's name was derived from an early [[MUCK]] character who was a white-scaled dragon which could only communicate telepathically through images and ideas. When describing himself he used the picture-terms "white fire" (for his breath weapon), and the name stuck. The character was meant as a roleplay character, but eventually became so associated with him that it became his name in Fandom as well.

== External links ==
{{Contributor}}
{{Rating-nc17-button}}
* [http://www.fur.com/wfire/home/ WhiteFire's website]
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/-whitefire-/ WhiteFire] on [[Fur Affinity]]
* [http://www.yiffstar.com/index.yiff?action=authorsearch&authorsearch=WhiteFire%20Sondergaard WhiteFire's stories] on [[Yiffstar]]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/WhiteFire/ WhiteFire] on [[VCL]]
* [http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/whitefire/ WhiteFire] on [[y!Gallery]] (no longer being updated)

[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Writers]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Tapestries characters]][[Category:FurryMUCK characters]][[Category:Fox-Dragon characters]]

[[sv:WhiteFire]]

WhiteFire

2012-03-16T02:23:59Z

WhiteFire: Added snowleopard since it's my primary species on places like SL

{{copyedit}}
[[Image:Pt-wf4-www-small.gif|right]]
'''WhiteFire''' (or '''Peter Torkelson''') is a Unix systems administrator and software developer who has had an interest in [[Furry]] since the age of sixteen when he first found a copy of the [[Xanadu (comic)|Xanadu]] comics. Since that time, he has become more involved in [[fandom]] in both his real life and on the Internet.

He primarily associates as a [[dragon]], [[snowleopard]], [[fox]], or sometimes a [[raccoon]]. His personal character is also named WhiteFire and is a fox-dragon [[hybrid]].

==Fandom involvement==
WhiteFire is the head [[wizard]] and owner of [[Tapestries MUCK]]. He has two widely known [[character]]s on Tapestries: WhiteFire and his administration character '''WhiteWizard'''.

WhiteFire founded the [[Furry Peace]] movement in 1998 and continues to support the movement's ideals.

He was on the board of directors of [[Anthropomorphic Arts and Education]] (parent company of [[Further Confusion]]).

He operates both [[fur.com]] and ''[[got fox|got fox?]]''.

==Artwork and writing==

WhiteFire is an [[artist]] who posts his [[art]] on [[Fur Affinity]] and in the past on [[Furrynet]] and the [[VCL]].

He is also a novice [[writer]] whose stories can be found at [[Yiffstar]] and [[Fur Affinity]].

==WhiteFire the character==
WhiteFire's original incarnation was on [[FurryMUCK]] in the form of a white-scaled dragon of some 60 feet in length. At the time he was unable to alter his appearance, often showing up in parts of the Muck 'in head only' to talk to people in outdoor cafes and the like.

Over time he had the desire to take a form more compatible with the smaller creatures he had come to associate with, so with the help of one Elias-Lan he learned the basics of shapeshifting. The lessons however were never completed, and he still has a limited selection of forms he can take, rather than being able to take any shape he wishes at will. Most are copied from other people, such as his original, a Fox'taur form copied from [[Shaterri]], or one he has spent a great deal of time modifying in a dream state.

As of this time he is most commonly seen on Tapestries MUCK in his self-named "fagon" form, which is a cross of [[fox]] and [[dragon]]. The pun is intentional. He in fact hardly changes out of the form any more, and it can be argued that it may have become his 'true' form at this point.

The fagon form is an [[anthro]]-fox with the basic build of a red fox, however snow white except for ears, 'gloves' and 'socks.' It also has two small horns just above the forehead, and relatively large dragon-like wings.

==Did you know?==
WhiteFire's name was derived from an early [[MUCK]] character who was a white-scaled dragon which could only communicate telepathically through images and ideas. When describing himself he used the picture-terms "white fire" (for his breath weapon), and the name stuck. The character was meant as a roleplay character, but eventually became so associated with him that it became his name in Fandom as well.

== External links ==
{{Contributor}}
{{Rating-nc17-button}}
* [http://www.fur.com/wfire/home/ WhiteFire's website]
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/-whitefire-/ WhiteFire] on [[Fur Affinity]]
* [http://www.yiffstar.com/index.yiff?action=authorsearch&authorsearch=WhiteFire%20Sondergaard WhiteFire's stories] on [[Yiffstar]]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/WhiteFire/ WhiteFire] on [[VCL]]
* [http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/whitefire/ WhiteFire] on [[y!Gallery]] (no longer being updated)

[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Writers]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Tapestries characters]][[Category:FurryMUCK characters]][[Category:Fox-Dragon characters]]

[[sv:WhiteFire]]

Talk:Tapestries MUCK

2012-03-16T02:12:01Z

WhiteFire: /* A punish all for the actions of a few policy */

{{featured}}

Corrected total numbers per White.
Taps Max: 870
Removed inaccurate FurryMuck user count. Made small grammatical changes.

== Forgot to login ==

I did the gerund correction.

== A reputation for strictness ==

I would like to note that this MUCK's wizards are known for strict enforcement of all rules - and for creating rules to cover all situations, regardless of whether a new rule is necessary. There is given no leeway given in any wizard's interpretation of rules, and all rules apply equally to all persons and places on the muck: no actual judgement need be exercised, since, as it were, every decision is already made by the law.

This is in contrast to maintaining a form of "common law", which is built from both rules and case histories, so that current decisions can be made based on previous information, the context or meaning of a rule can be clarified with every decision, and there need be no more rules than absolutely necessary.

Personally, I believe that this stems from the BDSM culture on which Tapestries is based, and the kinds of personalities that such things attract. "Rules are good; rules without favoritism of ''any'' sort are better; if there is no rule for something, then there needs to be one; all the rules are for all the people."

This is not to say that such things are bad. However, I would suggest that creating rules for the sake of covering all situations will lead to the loss of those who harm no-one, but who are harmed and unnecessarily restricted by rules which are written and applied far too broadly.

I will close my statement of opinion with a quote and a question:

''A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- '''Antoine de Saint-Exupery'''''

How could the number of rules be reduced, while maintaining the kind of environment most folk enjoy - or is what exists now the kind of environment the wizards meant to create?

-- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 02:27, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:Surely this merely means that ''free will'' has been taken away - which is, as I understand it, the ultimate objective of submissive philosophy? :-)

:"Common law" is expensive in terms of time to police. We have seen how much time such things can soak up on WikiFur. Perhaps this is simply one method used to reduce the workload. Remember, Tapestries is an awfully busy place - I just popped on and saw almost 700 people (and those were just the people online ''this moment'' - I don't know what their total user base is). It's reasonable to assume that at least a few of these are going to do something troublesome within the next week. It may be that the admins only have an hour or so to devote to that sort of thing. If so, stated rules strictly applied may be the fairest method of dealing with the situation in the time available. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:53, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::If the rules are too complex, people will not bother to read them, and are more likely to break them. The problem of law complexity is worse in [[real life]] where new laws are made all the time and it would be really hard to follow all laws that apply to you. Most people act by "common sense", in MUCKs or RL, and most manage to avoid any conflict with the law that way .... --[[User:Unci|Unci]] 10:07, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::As has been emphasised by a recent real life encounter by a friend, even the authorities will not bother to read and remember all the rules if they have an excuse not to. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 13:20, 3 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The general design of the Tapestries rules is to prevent people from being jerks. Rules lawyers will find no tolerance for their rule-skimming activities as WhiteWizard considers the person's intention before making a decision. -- Loiosh

:The policies are not actually as complicated as they look. A lot of the policies revolve around procedure and advice that are not actually rules related or are edge cases that you don't have to worry about unless you own a public zone or are seeking a NCO or some such. A good deal of the material in the policies is just informational as well. This dates back to the fact that at one time the policies were the only way we had to describe the Muck before the website was in common use. No, really. :) Tapestries MUCK is older than fur.com, we didn't always HAVE a website. In fact when we insisted that people use a web browser to register their characters many told us it would be the end of the Muck... personally, I like to think that our gamble on this 'web thing' paied off though. ;)

:Anyway, it's my goal now that we have the Wiki up to rewrite the policies from scratch to streamline them down into smaller chunks, pulling out things like the mission statement, theme, and other misc info into linked but not required reading so that people can get through the actual 'TOS' quickly. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 11:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== Anonymous wizards ==

What's the point of having anonymous wizards? --[[User:Unci|Unci]] 21:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:I think so that the staff can roleplay in peace and not have to deal with technical questions or disputes when they are not on duty. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 22:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::That is part of it. The other half of that is that it becomes impossible for them to be 100% neutral (or even close to it) when their identities are known. This is especially true when it's someone you know that needs to be disciplined for causing others trouble. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 11:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't particularly value the fact I couldn't really know who the staff was, for that and other reasons, I left. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 22:03, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:I would like to point out that the head wizard, myself, is publicly listed in several places, including the policies. The other two active wizards are anonymous for the above stated reasons. Regardless, hope you find fun wherever you end up. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 11:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== A punish all for the actions of a few policy ==

Tapestries has a long history of punishing the entire playerbase whenever any individual or small group of individuals violates a programming loophole, or insecurity.

Typically they plug the loophole by reducing functionality of the MUCK server. This has been done with the @force command, the disallowance of any sort of zombie objects, and "nerfing" the MPI scripting language to be fairly incompatible with other Fuzzball MUCKs.

This sort of policy has also reared it's ugly head in other ways, such as the removal of entire areas of the MUCK because some of the patrons of those areas were acting in a way the Wizards found unacceptable. Instead of punishing the actual offenders, the entire world was punished by the removal of an area. The biggest example of this would be the removal of "The Tavern", created by Doris.

The Tapestries Wizards, especially WhiteFire, have time and again exampled their distaste for actually administering their world, by creating automated systems to handle nearly all player requests, and the policy of simply punishing everyone when someone breaks a rule that they don't feel like enforcing on an individual basis. {{unsignedIP|71.209.73.49}}
: Unsigned: Most people consider automated support to be a plus, rather than a minus. Where is lacks in personal touch, it makes up for it in promptness of response. If you are refering to the ticket system, remember that just helps get the ticket into the hands of the first availble wizard, rather than waiting on a specific wizard to have time to answer it. The work is still done by the wizard. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:12, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
_____________

-I'd like to point out that it is incredibly difficult to administrate any group of people, let alone a group of adults role playing anthropomorphic characters in a BDSM universe. Programming loopholes have to be plugged, if it is exploitable it will be exploited. Sometimes the administration of one person is difficult especially if you are close to that person, especially when there is a small knit group around that person. The attempt to be a neutral force to avoid favoritism unfortunately creates situations in which you adversely affect the whole population. I would advise whoever wrote the above to recognize that administration is not an easy process and that taps access is a free service, not some god-given right. [[Special:Contributions/207.47.201.6|207.47.201.6]] 03:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)Dervacor

_____________

I don't think the word 'portmanteau' is used correctly here. I believe that 'BDSM' would be an acronym. 'BonDomSadoMach' would be portmanteau.

Tapestries MUCK

2012-03-16T01:53:07Z

WhiteFire: Updated the max connected users: 03/22/11 20:41:08: CONCOUNT: There are now 961 open connections.

<div style="float:right; font-size:5pt; line-height: 5pt; padding-left: 5px; white-space: pre; font-family:Courier New,courier,monospace"><nowiki>
___
- ---___- ,
(' || _ || '
(( || < \, -_-_ _-_ _-_, =||= ,._-_ \\ _-_ _-_,
(( || /-|| || \\ || \\ ||_. || || || || \\ ||_.
(( // (( || || || ||/ ~ || || || || ||/ ~ ||
-____- \/\\ ||-' \\,/ ,-_- \\, \\, \\ \\,/ ,-_-
|/
'
</nowiki></div>
{{Infobox multiplayer world
|name = Tapestries MUCK
|logo =
|caption =
|subject = Furry, adults-only, BDSM
|url = https://www.fur.com/tapestries/
* '''Forum''': https://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/
|server = [telnet://tapestries.fur.com:2069 tapestries.fur.com, port 2069] or 6699 for SSL.
|operator = [[WhiteWizard]]
|status = Ongoing
|duration = October 1991 - present
|rating =
}}
<div style="float:right;clear:right;">__TOC__</div>
'''Tapestries MUCK''' (known as '''Tapestries''' or '''Taps''' for short) is an adults-only [[MUCK]] popular within the [[furry fandom]]. The overall [[roleplaying]] theme is a world of [[anthropomorphic]] [[character]]s, with significant [[BDSM]] undertones. Characters may have consensual [[TinySex]] freely in the public areas of the game world; non-consensual acts are usually restricted to designated areas or private rooms.

As of 2012, Tapestries became the largest and most populated [[MU*]] dedicated to the fandom, surpassing [[FurryMUCK]] with a peak of 961 simultaneously connected users; it now averages a maximum of 820 users a night.

In March 2007, the MUCK's website was converted into a [[Wikipedia:MediaWiki|MediaWiki]] [[Wikipedia:wiki|wiki]].

== The world of the MUCK ==

Tapestries is based around a [[:Category:Culture|culture]] [[Wikipedia:Nexus|nexus]], where furry characters from different backgrounds may interact with each other (this definition includes certain [[humanoid]] beings like [[Wikipedia:Elves|elves]], [[Wikipedia:Ogres|ogres]], or [[Wikipedia:Centuars|centaurs]] -- humans are against the game's policies). Aside from the species restriction, themes are not strict. An unlimited variety of character origins are permitted by the game's administrators.

The game world itself is based around the town of [[Layleaux]], the center of most social interaction. Because of the overall adult theme, many of the MUCK's peripheral areas are themed around certain BDSM-based fetishes or interests.

Originally, Tapestries was a multi-world muck, of which the furry region was only one of many that could be reached through a tapestry room (hence the name). This room still exists, in the old Castle section of the MUCK (''t castle; s''), and the Furry Valley is still accessible through it.

== Mission Statement ==
[[Image:Tapestries_Furry_Leather_Pridex135x135.png|right|Tapestries MUCK]]
Tapestries MUCK is a cross between a real life [[BDSM play party]], a free form roleplaying environment, and a social gathering place all within a [[furry]] theme. It strives to provide a place for safe and free exploration of dominance and submission roleplay, as well as other forms of sexual expression in public and in private. Tapestries facilitates this by providing an environment that is populated exclusively by adult players and furry characters, as well as by setting guidelines that encourage tolerance and respect of other's fantasies and beliefs. In more detail:

=== BDSM ===

A portmanteau word: [[wikipedia:Bondage (BDSM)|Bondage & Discipline]] + [[wikipedia:Domination_and_submission|Dominance & Submission]] + [[wikipedia:Sadism|Sadism]] & [[wikipedia:Masochism|Masochism]]. This is a general breakdown of the acronym, and in this case it is meant to explain that Tapestries MUCK is a place for people who are generally interested in ways to have sex that are outside the mainstream.

=== Social Gathering ===

To find new people, interests, and generally to have fun, it is important to have social gatherings along side the play.

=== Adults ===

The Muck requires that you be 18 years of age or older to create a character. This is important to free people from legal and moral concerns in an environment that caters to sexuality.

=== Tolerance ===

Tolerance of other people's play, fantasies, beliefs, sexuality and other such things is absolutely critical for people to be comfortable sharing the very personal things that they do on Tapestries. Thus a certain level of tolerance and respect that goes beyond mainstream society is required of people that play here.

=== Furry ===

This MUCK is for members of the furry fandom to explore their sexuality and is especially aimed at interests in the type of fantasy creatures that they enjoy. As such people are both required to play nonhuman characters and be respectful of the species others wish to play.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}

== Age policy ==

Though it is almost impossible to verify, attempts ''are'' made to ensure that no players under the age of 18 join Tapestries. Anyone found to be under this age is typically banned from the game server (until they reach 18 years of age), for the safety of the MUCK.

== Administration ==

Tapestries is administered by a staff of [[wizard]]s who are named after different colors. Tapestries currently has five wizards as of October 2008: JadeWizard, GreyWizard and WhiteWizard who each handle different requirements of MUCK operation, and the newest pair of policy and harassment wizards, VioletWizard and CreamWizard. The Tapestries staff is anonymous with the exception of WhiteWizard - [[WhiteFire]], the owner and creator of the MUCK.

'''Did you know?''' The administrators meet in the Official Wizard Conference Room, located at the top of one of the towers of Cloud Castle, which contains a semicircular table with appropriately coloured chairs for each wizard.

== Past wizards ==

Past (retired) wizards include:<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/Wizards Retrieved December 6, 2009.</ref>

* BlackWizard - '''RETIRED''': Player relations, policy enforcement.
* StyxWizard - '''RETIRED''': Building management wizard.
* BlueWizard - '''RETIRED''': MUF Programmer.
* RedWizard - '''RETIRED''': MUF Programmer.
* Shaterri - '''RETIRED''': General player relations wizard.

== Others ==

(Mistress) [[Taisia]], mentioned in the MUCK's [[Castle's Keep Inn]], wrote some of the early [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.mud.tiny/browse_frm/thread/8483279494a2b445 promotion] of Tapestries on rec.games.muck.tiny.

== Media coverage ==

Tapestries was highlighted in a 2005 ''[[Wikipedia:Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'' news article about cybersex. The registration system was flooded, and WhiteFire was forced to turn away new users for a while.<ref>''[http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,66423,00.html Cybersex: Seek and Ye Shall Find]'', Wired magazine (28 January 2005)</ref>

== References ==
<references />

== See also ==

*[[:Category:Tapestries locations|Locations in Tapestries]]
*[[:Category:Tapestries characters|Residents of Tapestries]]
*[http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/History In-Character] and [http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/History_%28Tapestries_MUCK%29 Out-Of-Character history] on Tapestries MUCK Wiki

{{MU}}
{{Wikipedia|Tapestries_MUCK}}
[[Category:Tapestries]]
[[Category:Sexually-themed multiplayer worlds]]
[[Category:1991 births]]
{{Featured article}}

[[es:Tapestries MUCK]]
[[sv:Tapestries MUCK]]

Tapestries MUCK

2012-03-16T01:49:26Z

WhiteFire: Also updated the links to https since that's the offical page locations now.

<div style="float:right; font-size:5pt; line-height: 5pt; padding-left: 5px; white-space: pre; font-family:Courier New,courier,monospace"><nowiki>
___
- ---___- ,
(' || _ || '
(( || < \, -_-_ _-_ _-_, =||= ,._-_ \\ _-_ _-_,
(( || /-|| || \\ || \\ ||_. || || || || \\ ||_.
(( // (( || || || ||/ ~ || || || || ||/ ~ ||
-____- \/\\ ||-' \\,/ ,-_- \\, \\, \\ \\,/ ,-_-
|/
'
</nowiki></div>
{{Infobox multiplayer world
|name = Tapestries MUCK
|logo =
|caption =
|subject = Furry, adults-only, BDSM
|url = https://www.fur.com/tapestries/
* '''Forum''': https://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/
|server = [telnet://tapestries.fur.com:2069 tapestries.fur.com, port 2069] or 6699 for SSL.
|operator = [[WhiteWizard]]
|status = Ongoing
|duration = October 1991 - present
|rating =
}}
<div style="float:right;clear:right;">__TOC__</div>
'''Tapestries MUCK''' (known as '''Tapestries''' or '''Taps''' for short) is an adults-only [[MUCK]] popular within the [[furry fandom]]. The overall [[roleplaying]] theme is a world of [[anthropomorphic]] [[character]]s, with significant [[BDSM]] undertones. Characters may have consensual [[TinySex]] freely in the public areas of the game world; non-consensual acts are usually restricted to designated areas or private rooms.

As of 2002, Tapestries became the largest and most populated [[MU*]] dedicated to the fandom, surpassing [[FurryMUCK]] with a peak of 870 simultaneously connected users; it now averages a maximum of 820 users a night.

In March 2007, the MUCK's website was converted into a [[Wikipedia:MediaWiki|MediaWiki]] [[Wikipedia:wiki|wiki]].

== The world of the MUCK ==

Tapestries is based around a [[:Category:Culture|culture]] [[Wikipedia:Nexus|nexus]], where furry characters from different backgrounds may interact with each other (this definition includes certain [[humanoid]] beings like [[Wikipedia:Elves|elves]], [[Wikipedia:Ogres|ogres]], or [[Wikipedia:Centuars|centaurs]] -- humans are against the game's policies). Aside from the species restriction, themes are not strict. An unlimited variety of character origins are permitted by the game's administrators.

The game world itself is based around the town of [[Layleaux]], the center of most social interaction. Because of the overall adult theme, many of the MUCK's peripheral areas are themed around certain BDSM-based fetishes or interests.

Originally, Tapestries was a multi-world muck, of which the furry region was only one of many that could be reached through a tapestry room (hence the name). This room still exists, in the old Castle section of the MUCK (''t castle; s''), and the Furry Valley is still accessible through it.

== Mission Statement ==
[[Image:Tapestries_Furry_Leather_Pridex135x135.png|right|Tapestries MUCK]]
Tapestries MUCK is a cross between a real life [[BDSM play party]], a free form roleplaying environment, and a social gathering place all within a [[furry]] theme. It strives to provide a place for safe and free exploration of dominance and submission roleplay, as well as other forms of sexual expression in public and in private. Tapestries facilitates this by providing an environment that is populated exclusively by adult players and furry characters, as well as by setting guidelines that encourage tolerance and respect of other's fantasies and beliefs. In more detail:

=== BDSM ===

A portmanteau word: [[wikipedia:Bondage (BDSM)|Bondage & Discipline]] + [[wikipedia:Domination_and_submission|Dominance & Submission]] + [[wikipedia:Sadism|Sadism]] & [[wikipedia:Masochism|Masochism]]. This is a general breakdown of the acronym, and in this case it is meant to explain that Tapestries MUCK is a place for people who are generally interested in ways to have sex that are outside the mainstream.

=== Social Gathering ===

To find new people, interests, and generally to have fun, it is important to have social gatherings along side the play.

=== Adults ===

The Muck requires that you be 18 years of age or older to create a character. This is important to free people from legal and moral concerns in an environment that caters to sexuality.

=== Tolerance ===

Tolerance of other people's play, fantasies, beliefs, sexuality and other such things is absolutely critical for people to be comfortable sharing the very personal things that they do on Tapestries. Thus a certain level of tolerance and respect that goes beyond mainstream society is required of people that play here.

=== Furry ===

This MUCK is for members of the furry fandom to explore their sexuality and is especially aimed at interests in the type of fantasy creatures that they enjoy. As such people are both required to play nonhuman characters and be respectful of the species others wish to play.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}

== Age policy ==

Though it is almost impossible to verify, attempts ''are'' made to ensure that no players under the age of 18 join Tapestries. Anyone found to be under this age is typically banned from the game server (until they reach 18 years of age), for the safety of the MUCK.

== Administration ==

Tapestries is administered by a staff of [[wizard]]s who are named after different colors. Tapestries currently has five wizards as of October 2008: JadeWizard, GreyWizard and WhiteWizard who each handle different requirements of MUCK operation, and the newest pair of policy and harassment wizards, VioletWizard and CreamWizard. The Tapestries staff is anonymous with the exception of WhiteWizard - [[WhiteFire]], the owner and creator of the MUCK.

'''Did you know?''' The administrators meet in the Official Wizard Conference Room, located at the top of one of the towers of Cloud Castle, which contains a semicircular table with appropriately coloured chairs for each wizard.

== Past wizards ==

Past (retired) wizards include:<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/Wizards Retrieved December 6, 2009.</ref>

* BlackWizard - '''RETIRED''': Player relations, policy enforcement.
* StyxWizard - '''RETIRED''': Building management wizard.
* BlueWizard - '''RETIRED''': MUF Programmer.
* RedWizard - '''RETIRED''': MUF Programmer.
* Shaterri - '''RETIRED''': General player relations wizard.

== Others ==

(Mistress) [[Taisia]], mentioned in the MUCK's [[Castle's Keep Inn]], wrote some of the early [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.mud.tiny/browse_frm/thread/8483279494a2b445 promotion] of Tapestries on rec.games.muck.tiny.

== Media coverage ==

Tapestries was highlighted in a 2005 ''[[Wikipedia:Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'' news article about cybersex. The registration system was flooded, and WhiteFire was forced to turn away new users for a while.<ref>''[http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,66423,00.html Cybersex: Seek and Ye Shall Find]'', Wired magazine (28 January 2005)</ref>

== References ==
<references />

== See also ==

*[[:Category:Tapestries locations|Locations in Tapestries]]
*[[:Category:Tapestries characters|Residents of Tapestries]]
*[http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/History In-Character] and [http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/History_%28Tapestries_MUCK%29 Out-Of-Character history] on Tapestries MUCK Wiki

{{MU}}
{{Wikipedia|Tapestries_MUCK}}
[[Category:Tapestries]]
[[Category:Sexually-themed multiplayer worlds]]
[[Category:1991 births]]
{{Featured article}}

[[es:Tapestries MUCK]]
[[sv:Tapestries MUCK]]

Tapestries MUCK

2012-03-16T01:46:19Z

WhiteFire: Mention of SSL port

<div style="float:right; font-size:5pt; line-height: 5pt; padding-left: 5px; white-space: pre; font-family:Courier New,courier,monospace"><nowiki>
___
- ---___- ,
(' || _ || '
(( || < \, -_-_ _-_ _-_, =||= ,._-_ \\ _-_ _-_,
(( || /-|| || \\ || \\ ||_. || || || || \\ ||_.
(( // (( || || || ||/ ~ || || || || ||/ ~ ||
-____- \/\\ ||-' \\,/ ,-_- \\, \\, \\ \\,/ ,-_-
|/
'
</nowiki></div>
{{Infobox multiplayer world
|name = Tapestries MUCK
|logo =
|caption =
|subject = Furry, adults-only, BDSM
|url = http://www.fur.com/tapestries/
* '''Forum''': http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/
|server = [telnet://tapestries.fur.com:2069 tapestries.fur.com, port 2069] or 6699 for SSL.
|operator = [[WhiteWizard]]
|status = Ongoing
|duration = October 1991 - present
|rating =
}}
<div style="float:right;clear:right;">__TOC__</div>
'''Tapestries MUCK''' (known as '''Tapestries''' or '''Taps''' for short) is an adults-only [[MUCK]] popular within the [[furry fandom]]. The overall [[roleplaying]] theme is a world of [[anthropomorphic]] [[character]]s, with significant [[BDSM]] undertones. Characters may have consensual [[TinySex]] freely in the public areas of the game world; non-consensual acts are usually restricted to designated areas or private rooms.

As of 2002, Tapestries became the largest and most populated [[MU*]] dedicated to the fandom, surpassing [[FurryMUCK]] with a peak of 870 simultaneously connected users; it now averages a maximum of 820 users a night.

In March 2007, the MUCK's website was converted into a [[Wikipedia:MediaWiki|MediaWiki]] [[Wikipedia:wiki|wiki]].

== The world of the MUCK ==

Tapestries is based around a [[:Category:Culture|culture]] [[Wikipedia:Nexus|nexus]], where furry characters from different backgrounds may interact with each other (this definition includes certain [[humanoid]] beings like [[Wikipedia:Elves|elves]], [[Wikipedia:Ogres|ogres]], or [[Wikipedia:Centuars|centaurs]] -- humans are against the game's policies). Aside from the species restriction, themes are not strict. An unlimited variety of character origins are permitted by the game's administrators.

The game world itself is based around the town of [[Layleaux]], the center of most social interaction. Because of the overall adult theme, many of the MUCK's peripheral areas are themed around certain BDSM-based fetishes or interests.

Originally, Tapestries was a multi-world muck, of which the furry region was only one of many that could be reached through a tapestry room (hence the name). This room still exists, in the old Castle section of the MUCK (''t castle; s''), and the Furry Valley is still accessible through it.

== Mission Statement ==
[[Image:Tapestries_Furry_Leather_Pridex135x135.png|right|Tapestries MUCK]]
Tapestries MUCK is a cross between a real life [[BDSM play party]], a free form roleplaying environment, and a social gathering place all within a [[furry]] theme. It strives to provide a place for safe and free exploration of dominance and submission roleplay, as well as other forms of sexual expression in public and in private. Tapestries facilitates this by providing an environment that is populated exclusively by adult players and furry characters, as well as by setting guidelines that encourage tolerance and respect of other's fantasies and beliefs. In more detail:

=== BDSM ===

A portmanteau word: [[wikipedia:Bondage (BDSM)|Bondage & Discipline]] + [[wikipedia:Domination_and_submission|Dominance & Submission]] + [[wikipedia:Sadism|Sadism]] & [[wikipedia:Masochism|Masochism]]. This is a general breakdown of the acronym, and in this case it is meant to explain that Tapestries MUCK is a place for people who are generally interested in ways to have sex that are outside the mainstream.

=== Social Gathering ===

To find new people, interests, and generally to have fun, it is important to have social gatherings along side the play.

=== Adults ===

The Muck requires that you be 18 years of age or older to create a character. This is important to free people from legal and moral concerns in an environment that caters to sexuality.

=== Tolerance ===

Tolerance of other people's play, fantasies, beliefs, sexuality and other such things is absolutely critical for people to be comfortable sharing the very personal things that they do on Tapestries. Thus a certain level of tolerance and respect that goes beyond mainstream society is required of people that play here.

=== Furry ===

This MUCK is for members of the furry fandom to explore their sexuality and is especially aimed at interests in the type of fantasy creatures that they enjoy. As such people are both required to play nonhuman characters and be respectful of the species others wish to play.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}

== Age policy ==

Though it is almost impossible to verify, attempts ''are'' made to ensure that no players under the age of 18 join Tapestries. Anyone found to be under this age is typically banned from the game server (until they reach 18 years of age), for the safety of the MUCK.

== Administration ==

Tapestries is administered by a staff of [[wizard]]s who are named after different colors. Tapestries currently has five wizards as of October 2008: JadeWizard, GreyWizard and WhiteWizard who each handle different requirements of MUCK operation, and the newest pair of policy and harassment wizards, VioletWizard and CreamWizard. The Tapestries staff is anonymous with the exception of WhiteWizard - [[WhiteFire]], the owner and creator of the MUCK.

'''Did you know?''' The administrators meet in the Official Wizard Conference Room, located at the top of one of the towers of Cloud Castle, which contains a semicircular table with appropriately coloured chairs for each wizard.

== Past wizards ==

Past (retired) wizards include:<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/Wizards Retrieved December 6, 2009.</ref>

* BlackWizard - '''RETIRED''': Player relations, policy enforcement.
* StyxWizard - '''RETIRED''': Building management wizard.
* BlueWizard - '''RETIRED''': MUF Programmer.
* RedWizard - '''RETIRED''': MUF Programmer.
* Shaterri - '''RETIRED''': General player relations wizard.

== Others ==

(Mistress) [[Taisia]], mentioned in the MUCK's [[Castle's Keep Inn]], wrote some of the early [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.mud.tiny/browse_frm/thread/8483279494a2b445 promotion] of Tapestries on rec.games.muck.tiny.

== Media coverage ==

Tapestries was highlighted in a 2005 ''[[Wikipedia:Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'' news article about cybersex. The registration system was flooded, and WhiteFire was forced to turn away new users for a while.<ref>''[http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,66423,00.html Cybersex: Seek and Ye Shall Find]'', Wired magazine (28 January 2005)</ref>

== References ==
<references />

== See also ==

*[[:Category:Tapestries locations|Locations in Tapestries]]
*[[:Category:Tapestries characters|Residents of Tapestries]]
*[http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/History In-Character] and [http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/History_%28Tapestries_MUCK%29 Out-Of-Character history] on Tapestries MUCK Wiki

{{MU}}
{{Wikipedia|Tapestries_MUCK}}
[[Category:Tapestries]]
[[Category:Sexually-themed multiplayer worlds]]
[[Category:1991 births]]
{{Featured article}}

[[es:Tapestries MUCK]]
[[sv:Tapestries MUCK]]

WhiteFire

2008-06-24T16:00:08Z

WhiteFire: /* Artwork and writing */ Added Fur Affinity references.

[[Image:Pt-wf4-www-small.gif|right]]
'''WhiteFire''' (or '''Peter Torkelson''') is a Unix systems administrator and software developer who has had an interest in [[Furry]] since the age of sixteen when he first found a copy of the [[Xanadu (comic)|Xanadu]] comics. Since that time, he has become more involved in [[fandom]] in both his real life and on the Internet.

He primarily associates as a [[dragon]] or [[fox]], sometimes a [[raccoon]]. His personal character is also named WhiteFire and is a fox-dragon [[hybrid]].

==Fandom involvement==
* WhiteFire is the head [[wizard]] and owner of [[Tapestries MUCK]]. He has two widely known [[character]]s on Tapestries: WhiteFire and his administration character '''WhiteWizard'''.
* WhiteFire founded the [[Furry Peace]] movement in 1998 and continues to support the movement's ideals.
* He is on the board of directors of [[Anthropomorphic Arts and Education]] (parent company of [[Further Confusion]]).
* He operates both [[fur.com]] and ''[[got fox|got fox?]]''.

==Artwork and writing==
* WhiteFire is also an [[artist]] who posts his [[art]] on [[Fur Affinity]] and in the past on [[Furrynet]] and the [[VCL]].
* He is also a novice [[writer]] who's stories can be found at [[Yiffstar]] and [[Fur Affinity]].

==WhiteFire the character==
WhiteFire's original incarnation was on [[FurryMUCK]] in the form of a white-scaled dragon of some 60 feet in length. At the time he was unable to alter his appearance, often showing up in parts of the Muck 'in head only' to talk to people in outdoor cafes and the like.

Over time he had the desire to take a form more compatible with the smaller creatures he had come to associate with, so with the help of one Elias-Lan he learned the basics of shapeshifting. The lessons however were never completed, and he still has a limited selection of forms he can take, rather than being able to take any shape he wishes at will. Most are copied from other people, such as his original, a Fox'taur form copied from [[Shaterri]], or one he has spent a great deal of time modifying in a dream state.

As of this time he is most commonly seen on Tapestries MUCK in his self-named "[[Foxdragon|fagon]]" form, which is a cross of [[fox]] and [[dragon]]. The pun is intentional. He in fact hardly changes out of the form any more, and it can be argued that it may have become his 'true' form at this point.

The fagon form is that of an [[anthro]]-fox with the basic build of a red fox, however snow white except for ears, 'gloves' and 'socks.' It also has two small horns just above the forehead, and relatively large dragon-like wings.

==Did you know?==
WhiteFire's name was derived from an early [[MUCK]] character who was a white-scaled dragon which could only communicate telepathically through images and ideas. When describing himself he used the picture-terms "white fire" (for his breath weapon), and the name stuck. The character was meant as a roleplay character, but eventually became so associated with him that it became his name in Fandom as well.
{{Contributor}}
== External links ==
{{Rating-nc17-button}}
* [http://www.fur.com/wfire/home/ WhiteFire's website]
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/-whitefire-/ WhiteFire] on [[Fur Affinity]]
* [http://www.yiffstar.com/index.yiff?action=authorsearch&authorsearch=WhiteFire%20Sondergaard WhiteFire's stories] on [[Yiffstar]]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/WhiteFire/ WhiteFire's gallery] on [[VCL]]
* [http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/whitefire/ WhiteFire] on [[y!Gallery]] (no longer being updated)

[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Writers]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Tapestries characters]][[Category:FurryMUCK characters]][[Category:Fox-hybrid characters]][[Category:Dragon-hybrid characters]]

User:WhiteFire

2008-01-20T23:29:11Z

WhiteFire: /* Todo */

{| style="float:right"
|{{ContributorU}}
|}
Like. Um. Look at my [[WhiteFire|person page]] or something.

==Editing==

At this time I only edit articles that pertain to myself personally or organizations that I am involved in. My reasons for this are:

* NPOV not required - I feel that WikiFur has a disregard for NPOV, and I am displeased that the admins refuse to take an active role resolving disputes in this area.
* No Fact Checking - WikiFur's stance seems to be that they would rather have unsupported information (including accusations and opinion) regardless of accuracy rather than no information on a subject, even when that information is highly disputed.
* Self Proclaimed Furry Police - WikiFur also has a stance on deciding when a person should be included in WikiFur against their will if they decide that the fandom should be "warned" about the person in question. [[Sibe]] and [[Mozdoc]] are examples.
* Admin Bias - I was encouraged to edit on WikiFur because they desire to have people who have close knowledge of facts to help improve articles. However, I found if an admin had an opinion on a subject even with out having any experience to back it up, they would disallow the changes.

Note: I have discussed these subjects at some length with [[GreenReaper]] both in various talk pages and on IRC, and been unsatisfied with his responses to them. These are opinions. YMMV.

If you disagree with me, feel free to yack at me on my [[User_talk:WhiteFire|talk page]], but I don't guarantee I'll check it often.

==Boxes!==
{| style="width: 100%;"
|-
|{{User Yiffstar Name|WhiteFire Sondergaard}}
|{{User Fur Affinity Name|-WhiteFire-}}
|{{User VCL Name|WhiteFire}}
|-
|{{User Second Life Name|WhiteFire Sondergaard}}
|{{User Further Confusion}}
|{{User ConFurence East}}
|-
|{{User Anthrocon}}
|{{User ConFurence}}
|}

Talk:The Lining

2008-01-20T22:57:00Z

WhiteFire: Explain revert.

{{featured}}
==Voyeur Room==
In regards to
http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=The_Lining&curid=3536&diff=61110&oldid=61109&rcid=62223 ,
I'm wondering if it should have been deleted. As WikiFur can be used for historical information, something going down is not automatic cause for deletion. But since I'm not on Tapestries, I don't know if it's notable enough in historical context. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 06:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

== "Bi/Gay/Straight bar" ==

The above term may have meaning for bar experts, but to those not familiar with it it just appears to mean "a bar [that happens to be open to those of all sexual interests]". Is there any way to more clearly define its meaning to people who may not be used to bars? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

:''reply from [[User:Banner|Banner]] posted [http://banner.livejournal.com/536388.html elsewhere]:''

:The difference at it's most basic level would be: You'll find threesomes there. The next big difference is that you'll find a mixing of all types there. Regular bars primarily appeal only to straight people, and that's 99.9 percent of who you will find in them. Same for Gay bars, you'll find 99.9 percent of the people in there are gay. In a B/G/S bar you find a mix. Remember too that there are -male- and -female- gay bars and they rarely mix. Again in a B/G/S bar you will find gay males and females mixing, as well as some straights and a lot of bisexual people.

:This is a unique mix of people, which leads to a different atmosphere. Straight and Gay bars are NOT very tolerant places. If you don't fit in, you're run out. B/G/S bars, because they cater to no one sexuality, are very tolerant places. To go beyond that, well you'd just have to experience it. Somethings are not easily explained to someone who has no understanding, you just have to experience it for yourself. Which of course is why you rely on the advice of experts after all.

==Lining Closing==
I reverted the last edit by Banner, I feel that it was seriously not NPOV. It was self contradictory (did it because he was told to keep it private ... posted it to a website and linked it publicly?) and made assumptions about my actions stating them as fact instead of banner's opinion. The version by the original author, while not terribly flattering to either of us, was better, which is why I added a link to the wizard's statements and just left it at that. I was quite happy to see someone else had posted something reasonable because I was dreading trying to write it. :P I don't think that the revert dropped anything from the article value wise, but others may disagree. (thus, talk page) ---[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 09:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

:I think rereading there may have been some additional information that revert removes. I tried to work it into the article presenting both points of view on why the material was posted to a website instead of on forums. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 10:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I still think it looks a bit too inflammatory. How about 'The lining was closed due to a disagreement between the lining owner and the muck owner' and the date and leave it at that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:67.171.124.169|67.171.124.169]] ([[User talk:67.171.124.169|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/67.171.124.169|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.
:Because that's like saying 'how about we change the [[wikipedia:Iraq War|Iraq War]] article to say 'The Iraq war was started due to a disagreement between Bush and Saddam' and leave it at that'. We may be a furry encyclopedia, but we're an encyclopedia nontheless. And that means the cold hard facts, no matter how harsh it may seem. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 16:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
:I'd prefer this myself, but it's been made clear that "emotionally charged" information is welcome on WikiFur. You can see my thoughts on the treehouse and the responses for more on that subject. See like all three comment pages on [[Sibe]] too. I believe the argument is that (paraphrased) drama is part of furry history. Which is true, it's part of all history, I guess. *shrug* Work with what you got.
:I'm really poor at trying to represent the opinion of someone who's ... well, who's position I just can not [http://www.answers.com/topic/grok grock]. Someone who can remain neutral and still grock this may do a much better job. If you think you can, go read Banner's reverted version. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 01:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's a better idea, how about Whitefire keep his paws off of my bar now that he's deleted it and I've been booted off of his Muck? The Bar now exists elsewhere and it's really no longer his concern. His running here to immediately put in the the closing is rather interesting. I posted my resons for closing it, because as the owner I have a right to do so. I posted the further details to correct some of the BS that was in his MOTD.
--[[User:Banner|Banner]]
:He has just as much right to edit this article as anyone else. No doubt we will end up with a more balanced article if we have views and opinions from both sides of this disagreement. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 07:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
:I did not create the section on the bar closing, and in fact didn't add more than a link to it to the wizard's statement on the subject originally. Please look at the edit history. I only started editing it extensively when you posted clearly biased material to it deleting the other side of the story. This article is not ''yours'', it is documentation on the fandom managed by WikiFur. It is not your bar, it is an article about it on a third party site. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 08:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
:I have again restated your edits as your opinion, and added back my own, also stated as opinion. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 09:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to make any changes to the deletion and toading section. However I would like to point out that when a person complained on the forums about a place being denied a building permit, their character was immediatly stockaded for 3 days. There was nothing inflamatory in that post, it was the only post they ever made to the board, and it just goes to show, that yes, you do get punished for saying the wrong things.

As for the stockading of my character, followed by the toading, they had a lot of time to tell me what happened in an email, at least 12 hours, before I discovered it (possibly longer). Saying that I discovered it before they could contact me, is pretty bizzarre. I only discovered it when I could not log in. I think I'm also the first to be toaded for the first offense on posting a communication between myself and WF.
[[User:Banner|Banner]]
:Said user was stockaded for contacting alts of wizards on the muck itself. Such was posted publicly at the time of the incident. The posting of private communications with myself to a website also weighed into Crassus' removal from the Muck (which is discussed on the Treehouse page on this site.) I was very slow getting email out to you because I had goofed the email and got distracted by RL, and didn't realize it had failed until well after I was told you were aware of the situation. I suppose "compose an email" could be changed to "successfully compose an email" to be absolutely accurate. I am hardly perfect. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 10:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Clarified a few things that I thought weren't clear. [[User:Banner|Banner]]
: You removed portions of the arguments made by the wizards. While you may not agree with the wizard's position, deleting material designated as something the the other side of the argument believed because you don't agree is inappropriate. Reverted edit. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

The Lining

2008-01-20T22:52:59Z

WhiteFire: Reverting. Banner removed portions of the Wizard's position with is edits. NPOV

{{NPOV}}
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
'''The Lining''' was a bar in [[Tapestries MUCK]]. It was originally mostly focused on [[BDSM]], this being the initial focus of the [[MUCK]].
It now exists on [[DarkFurr]] MUCK moved there after its deletion from Tapestries. The oldest parts of the bar were based on a bar of the same name in [[Wikipedia:Floral Park, New York|Floral Park, New York]] that has since been replaced by a church.
{{cleanup}}
== Overview ==
The Lining was constructed October 15th, 1996 and originally contained only the two bars and a bathroom. Over the years it has expanded with a hot tub section, pool, a rooftop bar, and several other attractions. The bar is Adult themed, like the [[MUCK]], and the owner/builder takes great pains to see that things run well, having hired a manager and several bouncers to deal with things when he can not be present.

The Lining contains many firsts for Tapestries, several of which have been copied repeatedly (like the non-consent room), which the owner finds rather flattering.

== History ==
Back in 1996 most [[furs]] on Tapestries tended to congregate in the [[plaza]], and there really were few places, if any, that furs tended to go to and hang out. The plaza at the time tended to be overly crowded and was drawing a fair amount of [[Wikipedia:twink|twinks]] and obnoxious bashers of many people's personal preferences.

A friend asked if [[Banner]] would build a place for people to hang out, where those who were causing problems could easily be ejected without having to bother the [[wizard]]s, and which would be harder to find not being at the main portal. The Lining officially opened its doors to the public on 15 October 1996, and maintained a surprisingly high level of success until April 2007.

== Clientèle ==
The Lining is a Bi/Straight/Gay bar and while the clientèle tends more towards [[gay]] males it is friendly to all sexual preferences. The owner and the hired staff will not tolerate anyone who discriminates based on this.

== Atmosphere ==
The Lining was a BDSM bar, inline with the original theme of the MUCK. It still sticks to this theme, though the main bar is somewhat mellower than it was when it was first opened. In this light, The Lining featured the first 'Non-Consent' room ever allowed on Tapestries, the construction of which required a great deal of negotiation between the owner/founder of the bar and [[WhiteFire|WhiteWizard]], in order to be sure that no rules were broken. It has become such a success that many other establishments have copied this feature.

=== Staff ===
The Lining originally had no staff beyond the owner/creator (Banner) for about the first six years of operation. This led to a large amount of work for the owner as there was a lot of policy that needed to be enforced. This was made easier by the help of a few friends, and several (at the time) unique features of the bar.

The front and rear bars, as well as a few other bar locations could be monitored by the owner and a select handful of people if there are complaints about a certain fur's behavior, or should other issues arise. Also the front Bartender, as well as the two Bouncers in the rear bar (the large Black Lion and the large Black Wolf), can be played remotely as well. This combined with the sweep and banish commands allowed the owner to police the bar rules.

=== Bouncers and Manager ===
As time progressed however, in order to maintain the bar's atmosphere and the owner's sanity, a recruitment drive for Bouncers took place. This was fairly successful and the bar currently employs a staff of part time bouncers who assist. Also the original group of friends have maintained their privileges, though they are not on the official bouncer list.

The Manager (Whoas) of the bar was hired when the owner himself could not devote the necessary time to running the bar, and that worked out so well that he was kept on.

=== Philosophy ===
The Bar was popular for several reasons. The theme and the people who hang out there were important, as was the enforcement of the rules and the owner's personal commitment to an even and fair application of the rules to everyone.

This at times had been extremely hard, and very time consuming. Over the years there had been repeated attempts by different cliques to take over the bar and run others out. The amount of grief at times has been surprising for a game, and the reactions of furs when they find that in The Lining, you are actually held accountable for your actions (just like in an [[RL]] bar), has been educational.

The Bar's layout, the descriptions, the overall 'Karma', had been carefully designed even if it does not appear to be obvious. Some things have been added due to the owner's sense of humor (such as the April Fool's day changes). Other things have been added to remember events that took place, or people who were once there: Sunhawk's perch, the waterline from when Kati flooded the bar, the Bar Wolf (Wolph).

== Layout ==

The original layout of the bar at the time of opening was as follows:

=== Entrance ===
The area of arrival for the Tport pad. It also contained the Bar's bulletin board. From here you could either go into the Bar, or into the Alleyway. As described, the building was a very plain concrete block building with a heavy metal fire door as the entrance.

=== Front Bar ===
The front bar was more of a 'nice' place, almost like an 'old man's bar' of the type found in the northeast. Plush overstuffed seats in booths with Formica tables. Food and drink were available here.

=== Back Bar ===
The back bar was painted all in black, with no lighting. It had an ashwood perch suspended from the ceiling. The music was often loud and constant. It was staffed by two naked [[vixen]] bartenders, and [[cougar]] waiters wearing heavy bondage gear. The room was patrolled by two bouncers: a [[wolf]] and a [[lion]].

=== Hallway ===
Just a hallway, though some folks do hang out in it. Its main purpose was to join the bar to the bathroom and the Gate.

=== Bathroom ===
The Lining's bathroom was Tapestries' first non-consensual play space. This room was inspired by several events, and one person. It was described in the signs as a room for rape and heavy scenes, where in character safe words were disregarded.

This room was based almost exactly on the [[real life]] Lining - the RL one didn't have the pipes, and was a bit smaller, otherwise the stains, etc, were all there.

=== Alley ===
Just a place to play a little basketball, and hold the dumpster. The backdoor to the bar is here, as well as the entrance to the new underage club next door.

=== Gate ===
For many years, the gate was a locked barrier that you either had to find a way around, (there was a hidden one), get the combination from someone who knew it, or be on the lock list so you could pass through. The basement areas were originally a series of private play spaces for people who needed one, but in time the lock was taken off and the space was opened to the general bar public.

=== Landing ===
Again, just a place to pause. The entrance to the Office was here, as were the Hot Tubs, and the stairs continue down to the Basement.

=== Office ===
This was Banner's office. It also contained links to his and his mate's rooms, as well as functional things for the bar's operation. Whoas, the manager could often lounging about here as well.

=== Basement ===
It's pretty far down below the bar, so any noises here don't penetrate to the outside world, and vice versa.

==== North Dungeon ====
Off of the Basement, a standard rock hewn room with chains for restraining those in need of punishment.

==== East Dungeon ====
Off of the Basement, a sort of 'examination' room, with white washed walls, and examination table, and other assorted instruments of 'examination'.

==== Macro Room ====
This was a large space for those into [[macrophilia]] and [[vorarephilia]]. It was done up to appear as if you're outside in a large open field, unless you're near the door or one of the walls.

=== Additions ===
The following rooms have been added over time, mainly due to requests from the patrons.

==== Leather Bar ====
This room was added to recapture more of the original BDSM play that went on in the bar in its early years. This was an IC only area.

==== Chill-Out Room ====
Also an IC only area, but as the name implies, for 'Chilling out'.

==== Boxing Room ====
A large Boxing Ring is in this room, and there was an attached locker room as well as a shower area off of that.

==== Hot Tub and Pool Area ====
This was a large area featuring a large public Hot Tub and Pool, modeled after those found in the Nexus on [[FurryMuck]]. There were also three private Hot Tub rooms with lockable doors for those wishing privacy.

==== Rooftop Bar ====
More of a relaxed area, for general chat and just hanging out. The BDSM theme of the bar was almost invisible here, and the open air bar had a nice view of the weather.

==== Viewing Area ====
This was a part of the rooftop bar, and allowed you to interact with the furs in the cage, without actually going into the cage.

==== Cage ====
It's a Cage. Careful going in, sometimes the door locks and you can't get out.

==== Club Syzygy ====
[[Club Syzygy]] was an underage club built for ageplayers on the Muck, at the request of several Tapestries players. It was built next door to the bar, on bar property, which is why it is mentioned here under additions.

== Rules ==
The rules for The Lining are presented here for reference. Putting a lock on the entries to the bar was not something the owner wanted to do, however he values fairness above all and without forcing people to read them, he was finding it hard to punish violators, of which there were quite a few at the time the locks were implemented.

The following rules are current, as of 07/24/06:

''Welcome to The Lining. This is a Gay/Bi/Straight BDSM Bar. It's the oldest bar on Tapestries, but first the RULES.''
# ''If it is discovered that you did not read all of the rules, you will be banned. Permanantly. No excuses.''
# ''Do not debate rules with the owner (Banner) or the Bouncers. You may bring up issues or request clarification via email. But no debates.''
# ''If someone is scening, and you break it up, you are in the wrong. PERIOD.''
# ''The Front bar is for socializing. Sex and scening IS ALLOWED however in ALL parts of the bar.''
# ''The Back Bar is PRIMARILY for BDSM play and scening. The goal is not to have it overrun with OOC debates and arguments. So please try to respect those who are IC.''
# ''The Rear Bar is consentual on the whisper and OOC basis, that means that yes, someone can start what 'appears' to be a non-consensual scene with you, if you don't like it you can safeword IC'ly and they must stop. Or tell them in whispers IC or OOCLY to stop, and they MUST stop.''
# ''Good scenes always -appear- non-consensual to those who are watching, that is what scening is about and what makes a good one.''
# ''The Bathroom is a 'non-consensual' space. This means that safewords are IGNORED. You go in there, you get what you get. OOC Safewords STILL APPLY however. But don't go in there if you are not into that kind of thing. Furthermore read the sign in the Bathroom for more details.''
# ''If a room has a sign in it, Read it! There may be special rules for that room. IGNORANCE of the rules is NOT an excuse.''
# ''Punishment for most errors will be 1 week banishment. Repeated infractions will lead to a permanent ban. Severe infractions may lead directly to a permanent ban.''
# ''SAFEWORDS MUST BE HONORED. If not I will talk to the wizards about banning you from the ENTIRE Muck! If you don't know what a safeword is, please find out before entering the bar.''
# ''No BLOOD or violent stuff in the Front, Rear or Rooftop bars. No fighting no nasty physical stuff, no strangulation, no killing, no destruction of bar property.''
# ''NO ANGST! This isn't a pity party, it's a BDSM bar!''
# ''If you agree to follow the rules you need to set yourself IMADICK?:NO in the format of @set me=<property>:no Some places will be locked to you if this property is not set! NEVER TELL ME YOU DID NOT READ THE RULES AS AN EXCUSE for misbehaving!''
# ''No one under the age of 18 in Real Life is allowed in the Bar! Ever!''
# ''Age Play is allowed in Club Syzygy only! Not in the Bar or Bar environs.''
# ''The Leather Bar area is IC only! No OOC there please! People engaging in ANY ooc behavior will be swept, possibly without warning! Do not use the OOC speak or pose command there either.''
# ''Power Idling will not be tolerated and is a bannable offense! (Power idling is using a trigger to make it look like you are not idling when in fact you are). Ignoring questions from the bouncers is considered proof of Power Idling.''

''Sometimes I do monitor the bars, there is also a bouncing staff (type 'Bouncers' to get a list). There are also 'puppet' bouncers that can be played remotely.''

''Remember: NO prudes! If you walk in and don't like what you see, walk out, they were here first! I reserve the right, ALL of them. Play nice or I -WILL- ban your ass. Your mileage may vary. Leave your ANGST at home. And in the Bathroom, ENTER at your OWN risk! (please remove any dead bodies)
-Banner Owner and Proprietor''

''The Lock prop is in the rules, PLEASE read them. If you can't figure it out
but HAVE read the rules, ask for help. Thank you.''

(The Lining, its layout, descriptions, and all of its contents are copyright
Banner and Banner's player (in places where Banner is not a legally recognized
alias) Players are granted the right to use descriptions of the bar in any
posts they make or stories they may write as long as they put in a disclaimer
as to the copyright and its owner. Recreations of this establishment without
the sole consent of Banner, are forbidden).

== Deletion from Tapestries ==
{{dubious}}
The owner of The Lining, Banner, had announced publicly on his website<ref>http://www.snowcloude.com/banner/Lining.html</ref> on April 14, 2007 that he would be closing The Lining at the end of the month, stating that "[[WhiteFire]] <nowiki>[aka</nowiki> [[WhiteWizard]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> has decided that I am a poor manager of this location, regardless of the fact of its being the number one or two spot every day since it opened back in October of 1996." This letter also cites what Banner feels to be abuse by Tapestries owner and head wizard WhiteFire. He also stated that he would not follow through with closing the area if he received an apology from WhiteFire.
{{WikiFurNews|WhiteWizard purges The Lining from Tapestries}}
In a subsequent posting, Banner stated <ref name="Lining2">[http://www.snowcloude.com/banner/Lining2.html Okay, so lets look at what happened, shall we]. Webpage by Banner. Retrieved 2007 April 24.</ref> that he did not feel he would be fairly heard on a forum that Whitefire controlled, a forum which he felt few people viewed, and on which he felt that WhiteFire has a history of punishing people for saying things he doesn't like. Banner also believed that as soon as he put up his reasons for the impending closing, that WhiteFire would delete the bar, and most likely any messages he posted.

[[WhiteWizard]], for his part, questioned the motives of the post being made where it could not be directly responded to by the patrons of the Lining or the Wizards. WhiteWizard also claimed that they will not punish people for posting contradictory opinions to the forums except in the case where they violate other policies, and that he has allowed extensively critical posts about them to continue to exist on the forums.

Upon seeing what he perceived as an ultimatum, WhiteWizard discussed the situation with several people, including a six-hour-long conversation with one of his other wizards. On April 16, 2007, WhiteWizard deleted the entire area by means of purging all objects owned by Banner, stating that he did not want to put the MUCK through a month of waiting to see if Banner would follow through on removing the area or not.<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=1404&start=0</ref>. As a side effect of the purge, [[StarrBucks]], also owned by Banner, was deleted as well. The residents of the coffee shop were thus left with their building in unlinked space (like most private homes on the Muck.)

===Toading from Tapestries===
The next day Banner was [[toaded]], with WhiteWizard citing the second part of Banner's post<ref name="Lining2"/>, claiming it violated the privacy policy of the muck, especially relating to revealing the name of the person who originated the complaint against Banner.

Banner refuted this for the following reasons: 1) He believed the posting of the page mails that WhiteWizard sent him proved that WhiteFire was not being honest in his muckwide MOTD. 2) That wizard communications with members could hardly be considered 'logs'. 3) The person named was already bragging to everyone about his role in closing The Lining. He later stated that if he had been asked he would have removed the name. WhiteWizard believed that such communications can contain sensitive information (names, for example) that should not be revealed, and that they were protected under the privacy statement. He also further denied that they in any way contradicted the statement posted in the MOTD and forums.

Banner further believed that he was never informed of either the stockading or the banning, and that this was a violation of the Muck's policies.<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/wiki/Policy_Punitive</ref> The wizards pointed out that it was common to simply post stockadings to the bulletin board in the area that the stockaded members can read for themselves, and that Banner responded to the toading before they could compose an email to his registered email in such a way it was apparent he was already aware of the situation. While Banner's name is reserved for now, he is not listed as Banned, meaning that he is free to create another character on the Muck. Informing users of punishment is not required by policy, but is common practice and considered good form by the wiz core of [[Tapestries MUCK]].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Tapestries locations|Lining, The]][[Category:1996 births|Lining, The]][[Category:2007 deaths|Lining, The]]
{{featured article|Lining, The}}

Talk:SCALF

2008-01-20T22:40:27Z

WhiteFire: Reason for revert

Just curious what the specific objections are with the NPOV tag? --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 11:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

: Mainly the comments about Whitefire. From reading it, I get the impression that I am only being told one side of the story.
: To make the article more encycloedpic, I'd be all for removing a good chunk of that section and simply saying, "the list was non-operation due to technical problems" or whatever. Of course, if you want to write up the story of how the list got to be non-functional on another website and link to it from this article, I don't think there'd be any problems with that. :-) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, like [[The_Astonishing_Treehouse_of_the_Secret_Moon]]'s ''history'', this is nothing more than a personal attack by Crassus that he is using WikiFur to host. The facts presented are in fact very inaccurate, and the situation was much more complicated than he presents it. Including ownership disputes and technical problems involved in the move. It is also not the only service that went down at that time, the fur.com news server went permanently down at that time due to lack of bandwidth.

I would request that all or most of this article be deleted. I would do it myself, but that would be no more unbiased than Crassus' actions. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 18:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:If the article is factually inaccurate, or you feel it incorrectly represents your opinions or motives, you are welcome to fix it. If you can provide a more thorough explanation of why the service went down and remained down (assuming this fact is not in question too), then that would be very welcome as well. Including more information generally makes plain the reasons behind events that can otherwise seem mysterious and which lead to speculation about the causes. A similar situation occurred at [[Talk:Yerf]]

:If you are not at liberty to divulge this information (or do not wish to for some reason) . . . well, we're kinda left with an article which at best says "Crassus said this from his point of view, while WhiteFire says that there's more to the story, but isn't going to tell it." This is, however, better than nothing, and better than just having Crassus' viewpoint. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

::I disagree with the philosophy here of preserving one sided arguments and unverifiable opinions stated as fact, but I guess I'll give my side as best I remember it. *shrug* --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 19:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

:::Some things are definitely true or false, and these matters ''should'' be settled conclusively where possible. Where this is not the case, we can and should give the facts about people's opinions, and let people make their own minds up about the matter. Usually they will consider what they know of the people and events concerned - if an argument seems particularly one-sided, readers are rightly going to give it scrutiny, and give those views that are backed up by evidence more credibility. Unverifiable opinions reflect far more on the giver than the target. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

You know, more sections are nice and all, but I don't see the point in pulling out one paragraph out of the middle of the history to put it out of order so you can have a 'controversy' section? I mean, that might be great for gossip hounds, but it confuses the actual history of what happened to the list. The timing of that disagreement is important to the list's eventual termination. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]] 11:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Revered edit I considered to further cause NPOV problems because it was stating events that are disputed as facts rather than as Crassus' view of the events. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

SCALF

2008-01-20T22:38:25Z

WhiteFire: Undo revision 176391 by 66.214.96.123 (talk) - NPOV

'''Southern CALifornia Furries''' ('''SCALF''') was a mailing list started by [[WhiteFire]] which was actively hosted on [[fur.com]] from 1997(?) until 1999.

== History ==

The first two years its service saw very little service or users. In 1999, [[Crassus]] approached WhiteFire and asked if he could be the active moderator and maintainer for the list. Whitefire agreed, seeing as he was 400 miles north, living in the [[Wikipedia:San Francisco Bay Area|Bay Area]].

After the demise of [[SCFL]], its users were directed to SCALF by both [[Kitfox]] and Crassus.

=== Downtime and termination ===

In 1999, Whitefire moved. He was unable to maintain the [[Wikipedia:Digital Signal 1|T1 connection]] at the new location, and the install problems of the new service caused fur.com's services, including SCALF to be down for a little less than a week. When fur.com was put back into service, most of its services were up within a week. However, some mailing lists had problems with upgrades on the system, including SCALF. The public news service also had to be dropped at this time due to bandwidth.

Crassus and WhiteFire argued about the service in question, including about it's ownerships, and demands for access to the machine and web hosting for the list. Eventually WhiteFire felt that Crassus' behavior on the subject had reached the level of harassment, and requested one of the other wizards of [[Tapestries MUCK]], where much of the bickering took place, grant him a [[no-contact-order|NCO]] against Crassus.

The list never recovered, and was eventually terminated by [[fur.com]], although the reference to it mistakenly remained on fur.com's website until 2003 when the website was redesigned.

== SoCalFurs ==

In 2000, with the rise of [[Wikipedia:eGroups|eGroups]], the ability to maintain an email list without owning a hosting server suddenly became possible. Crassus did not create an eGroups list, not wanting to have a power struggle because of political loyalties and friendship with Kitfox. In April of 2000, a SoCal fur named [[Alias Foxx]] who was completely untied politically, took it upon himself to create a new list which he entitled [[SoCalFurs]]. SCALF members flocked to the new mailing list in droves, ending up with a population of 100 within its first year of existence.

== External links ==

* [http://web.archive.org/web/20010201163600/www.fur.com/fur.com/services.html Outdated fur.com's service page], showing the now defunct SCALF mailing list link (retrieved April 1st, 2007 via the [[Wayback Machine]])
[[Category:Mailing lists]]
[[Category:California]]
[[Category:1997 births]]
[[Category:1999 deaths]]

User:WhiteFire

2007-05-09T22:52:49Z

WhiteFire: /* Todo */

{| style="float:right"
|{{ContributorU}}
|}
Like. Um. Look at my [[WhiteFire|person page]] or something.

==Todo==
* [[Role-playing]] needs help badly.

===Done===
* Merge [[MUX]] into [[MUSH]]. (Was already a mux definition in the MUSH article.)
* Merge [[Realms MUCK]] into [[RealmsMUCK]]

==Boxes!==
{| style="width: 100%;"
|-
|{{User Yiffstar Name|WhiteFire Sondergaard}}
|{{User Fur Affinity Name|-WhiteFire-}}
|{{User VCL Name|WhiteFire}}
|-
|{{User Second Life Name|WhiteFire Sondergaard}}
|{{User Further Confusion}}
|{{User ConFurence East}}
|-
|{{User Anthrocon}}
|{{User ConFurence}}
|}

Talk:MU*

2007-05-09T22:52:06Z

WhiteFire: /* Merge MUD */

''We're going to the MU, MU, MU, how about you, you, you? You can come too, too, too; we're going to the MU, MU, MU!''
:Don't mind me . . . --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:47, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::o__O; --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:50, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

==Merge MUD==
As this is just a version of the term [[MUD]], I am recommending this be merged with the MUD article proper with a redirect to MUD. Right now this is mostly replicated information from that article anyway. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:Disagree with merge. This refers to an acronym used for several types of MU*s (see? XD), not just MUD. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 22:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
::MU* is according to [[Wikipedia:MUD]] specific to the TinyMUCK subbranch of and defined within [[Wikipedia]]'s MUD article. MUD is actually a broader term when you come down to it, referring to everything in the Tiny branch, all the way to MMORPGs like WoW and EQ. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:::I looked at the referenced Wikipedia page and found the following quote: "Some use the term MU* to refer to TinyMUD, MUCK, MUSH, MUSE, MUX, and their kin; others simply allow the term MUD to apply universally." The other instances of MU* referred to a listing of several MU*s (such as the categories of various MU* games), but nothing referring to MU* being specific to TinyMUCK aside from being listed under that subheading along with 'diversification', which is the context of this article. My disagree still stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 22:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
::::Er, I meant to say TinyMUD not TinyMUCK in my previous remark. It is (as the quote you provided says) specific to the TinyMUD family. The list provided are all TinyMUD variants, and "their kin". The "MUD applies universally" supports my position that MUD is a larger term, in fact. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:::::Then both should exist. I've heard MU* used among MUCKers a great deal, thus I believe it's relevant enough to furry/MUCKing to exist here. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 22:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
::::::I was suggesting merging into a broader article, not dropping. However, I will just drop the subject, it's not worth going on about. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

MU*

2007-05-09T22:40:48Z

WhiteFire: Moved MOO reference into main article. Removed MUSE (I can't even find any information about that server other than it once existed any more... not a great example)

{{Merge|MUD}}
'''MU*''' is the term used to describe any '''m'''ulti-'''u'''ser text-based online game that uses either the [[MUD]], [[MUCK]], [[MUSH]], [[MOO]], [[MUX]], or other similar game engine and software.

It is often used when referring to another game that you know the name of but not the type, to be vague about the specific type of game, or to encompass more than one type in a general statement; e.g. "Do you know the player on another MU*?" or "I have several characters elseMU*."

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

Talk:MU*

2007-05-09T22:37:47Z

WhiteFire: /* Merge MUD */

Talk:MU*

2007-05-09T22:24:27Z

WhiteFire: /* Merge MUD */ disagree disagree

MUD

2007-05-09T22:15:20Z

WhiteFire: More see also...

A '''MUD''' (acronym for '''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''D'''ungeon) is an online role-playing game that is usually text-based and accessable through telnet, as well as a variety of MUD clients.

Each MUD has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUDs allow [[player]]s to be [[out of character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[in character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUD.

Unlike [[MOO]]s, MUDs are static environments that may contain objects that have descriptions and limited actions. While more advanced text-based environments allow for complicated object-heirarchy models to create a feature-rich world, MUD's are more akin to chatrooms that have describable objects.

While more chatty mediums such as [[IRC]] are more prone to idle users and periods of non-activity, MUD's typically disconnect idle users, so the ability to find partners for role-play are greater on a MUD or [[MUCK]].

==TinyMUD==
{{split}}
[[Wikipedia:TinyMUD|TinyMUD]] was created by James Aspnes in mid-to-late 1989 and is the name of both an implementation of the MUD software, and the name of a MUD itself. TinyMUD, it's descendants and look-a-likes became the most popular software for social rather than [[role-playing]] (really MMORPG combat) MUDs. This includes virtually all [[furry]] themed MU*s.

TinyMUD quickly forked into three main groups:
* [[MUCK|TinyMUCK]]s - Most notable for their fourth-like programming language [[MUF]].
* [[MUSH|TinyMUSH]] - Made popular by [[Wikipedia:Pern|Pern]] fandom, it later came to have it's own MUSH code.
* [[MOO]] - An object oriented variant of the server most notably used by [[Wikipedia:LambdaMOO|LambdaMOO]].

==History==
The first mud was created by Roy Trubshaw and Richard Bartle at Essex University in 1979. The original version merely allowed a user (player) to move about in a virtual location, later versions provided for more variation including objects and commands which could be modified on or offline. The goal for developing the first MUD was to test a newly developed shared memory system, the gaming aspect came later.

==See also==
*[[Wikipedia:MUD|MUD]] on [[Wikipedia]] for more information.
*[[Wikipedia:TinyMUD|TinyMUD]] on [[Wikipedia]] for more information.
*[[MUCK]]
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUSH]]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

Talk:MU*

2007-05-09T22:13:36Z

WhiteFire: Merge MUD

MU*

2007-05-09T22:11:33Z

WhiteFire: As this is just a version of the term MUD, I am recomending this be merged with the MUD article proper.

{{Merge|MUD}}
'''MU*''' is the term used to describe any '''m'''ulti-'''u'''ser text-based online game that uses either the [[MUD]], [[MUCK]], [[MUSH]], [[MUSE]], [[MUX]], or other similar game engine and software.

It is often used when referring to another game that you know the name of but not the type, to be vague about the specific type of game, or to encompass more than one type in a general statement; e.g. "Do you know the player on another MU*?" or "I have several characters elseMU*."

== See also ==
* [[MOO]]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

Talk:MUD

2007-05-09T22:09:31Z

WhiteFire: New page: Re: the recommended split of TinyMUD: As far as furries are concerned everything before MUCK/MUSH/MOO is prehistory, and this is just trying to give a quick definition of those related ter...

Re: the recommended split of TinyMUD: As far as furries are concerned everything before MUCK/MUSH/MOO is prehistory, and this is just trying to give a quick definition of those related terms (MUD, MU* (which I think should be merged into here), TinyMUD) and how they are used, and then reference [[Wikipedia]] for more comprehensive articles that we could not hope to match (nor should we.) Directing people to this article will get them on the right track to finding the information they are most likely looking for. So I disagree. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Talk:MUCK

2007-05-09T22:02:04Z

WhiteFire:

The List of furry-themed MUCKs strikes me as being something of a haphazard list at the moment, and the homepage links in particular are distracting. I think something more constrained - perhaps a few of the largest MUCKs and a few notable by theme - would be a better thing to have in this article. Such retooling would involve some deletion, although I think the information here is already within our articles on the various MUCKs. Thoughts? -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 05:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

:I definitely agree with the homepage link removal. It might also be interesting to somehow find out the most popular MU*s and list them in that order, similar to the 'lists of conventions by attendance' page. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]

::I think at least two or three articles mention popularity or size (Tapestries, FurryMUCK, and... some science-fiction one, I think?), so that would be one place to start. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 20:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

:::I started the list by adding the two definite toppers, so if you or anyone else wants to help determine the most popular MU*s, feel free to add to the list. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

::::This might be of some help: [http://bristol.riverdark.net/tracker/tracker.php?start=1&sort=wp MUstats tracker] - but it's a little difficult exactly which are the most populated, as it's real-time tracking, so it fluctuates daily. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]'s revert, which I just reverted: I was bringing the list back up to four Mucks after moving something that was not a Muck to the MUSH page. This really does represent the dropoff. AFAIK 37 is the next high. (furtoonia at 35, puzzlebox at 20). Unless you know of a Muck that is currently more popular or a functional mustats tracker... keep in mind the current drop off in highs from #1 to #3 is 890 (taps) to 88 (SPR) --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 20:58, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
:SpinDizzy has a max of 37 too, but currently 8 players, vs. Le Jardin's 18 online right now. I really don't remember any other popular mucks to check at this time. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 21:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

::Regardless of the drop-off, I don't think anything less than an average of 50 connections is worth listing. [[TLK MUCK]], [[Sunrise MUCK]], and [[Meadows MUCK]] have all reached at least 50 connections in the past year, but that doesn't mean they're worthy of being listed as 'most popular' MUCKs. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

:::If they have higher counts they may make better examples. I don't particularly see why it has to be limited. 50 max connections '''is''' big these days for Mu*s. the Mudding population has dropped off a lot. I think people should be given a decent list of examples of what Mucks are these days. Maybe the section should just be called "examples" like it is in the MUSH article. If you have researched those MUCKs as larger than Le Jardin, feel free to insert them. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 22:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

TinyMUD

2007-05-09T21:58:11Z

WhiteFire: Redirecting to MUD

#REDIRECT [[MUD]]

MUD

2007-05-09T21:46:55Z

WhiteFire: /* TinyMUD */ typo

A '''MUD''' (acronym for '''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''D'''ungeon) is an online role-playing game that is usually text-based and accessable through telnet, as well as a variety of MUD clients.

Each MUD has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUDs allow [[player]]s to be [[out of character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[in character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUD.

Unlike [[MOO]]s, MUDs are static environments that may contain objects that have descriptions and limited actions. While more advanced text-based environments allow for complicated object-heirarchy models to create a feature-rich world, MUD's are more akin to chatrooms that have describable objects.

While more chatty mediums such as [[IRC]] are more prone to idle users and periods of non-activity, MUD's typically disconnect idle users, so the ability to find partners for role-play are greater on a MUD or [[MUCK]].

==TinyMUD==
[[Wikipedia:TinyMUD|TinyMUD]] was created by James Aspnes in mid-to-late 1989 and is the name of both an implementation of the MUD software, and the name of a MUD itself. TinyMUD, it's descendants and look-a-likes became the most popular software for social rather than [[role-playing]] (really MMORPG combat) MUDs. This includes virtually all [[furry]] themed MU*s.

TinyMUD quickly forked into three main groups:
* [[MUCK|TinyMUCK]]s - Most notable for their fourth-like programming language [[MUF]].
* [[MUSH|TinyMUSH]] - Made popular by [[Wikipedia:Pern|Pern]] fandom, it later came to have it's own MUSH code.
* [[MOO]] - An object oriented variant of the server most notably used by [[Wikipedia:LambdaMOO|LambdaMOO]].

==History==
The first mud was created by Roy Trubshaw and Richard Bartle at Essex University in 1979. The original version merely allowed a user (player) to move about in a virtual location, later versions provided for more variation including objects and commands which could be modified on or offline. The goal for developing the first MUD was to test a newly developed shared memory system, the gaming aspect came later.

==See also==
*[[MUCK]]
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUSH]]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUD

2007-05-09T21:46:22Z

WhiteFire: Added TinyMUD section.

A '''MUD''' (acronym for '''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''D'''ungeon) is an online role-playing game that is usually text-based and accessable through telnet, as well as a variety of MUD clients.

Each MUD has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUDs allow [[player]]s to be [[out of character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[in character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUD.

Unlike [[MOO]]s, MUDs are static environments that may contain objects that have descriptions and limited actions. While more advanced text-based environments allow for complicated object-heirarchy models to create a feature-rich world, MUD's are more akin to chatrooms that have describable objects.

While more chatty mediums such as [[IRC]] are more prone to idle users and periods of non-activity, MUD's typically disconnect idle users, so the ability to find partners for role-play are greater on a MUD or [[MUCK]].

==TinyMUD==
[[Wikipedia:TinyMUD|TinyMUD]] was created by James Aspnes in mid-to-late 1989 and is the name of both an implementation of the MUD software, and the name of a MUD itself. TinyMUD, it's descendants and look-a-likes became the most popular software for social rather than [[roke-playing]] (really MMORPG combat) MUDs. This includes virtually all [[furry]] themed MU*s.

TinyMUD quickly forked into three main groups:
* [[MUCK|TinyMUCK]]s - Most notable for their fourth-like programming language [[MUF]].
* [[MUSH|TinyMUSH]] - Made popular by [[Wikipedia:Pern|Pern]] fandom, it later came to have it's own MUSH code.
* [[MOO]] - An object oriented variant of the server most notably used by [[Wikipedia:LambdaMOO|LambdaMOO]].

==History==
The first mud was created by Roy Trubshaw and Richard Bartle at Essex University in 1979. The original version merely allowed a user (player) to move about in a virtual location, later versions provided for more variation including objects and commands which could be modified on or offline. The goal for developing the first MUD was to test a newly developed shared memory system, the gaming aspect came later.

==See also==
*[[MUCK]]
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUSH]]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUCK

2007-05-09T21:20:09Z

WhiteFire: Restructuring and new content.

A '''MUCK''' is an online [[role-playing]] game that is usually text-based and accessible through telnet, as well as a variety of MUCK clients. The term MUCK doesn't actually stand for anything, but is rather a play on the word "MUD", which stands for "Multi User Dungeon/Domain". However, the popular [[wikipedia:backronym|backronym]] for MUCK is "'''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''C'''reated '''K'''ingdom".

Each MUCK has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUCKs allow [[player]]s to be [[Out Of Character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[In Character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUCK.

Most MUCKs allow players to build. Creation might be restricted to simple objects, expanded to rooms and exits, or policy might allow for complex scripting. The creation and customization aspects of MUCK allow the player base to build a world.

The term 'mucking' means playing on a MUCK.

==TinyMUCK Programming Languages==
*[[MPI]] - A macro expansion language used to make descriptions more dynamic, it has grown into a full fledged language on it's own.
*[[MUF]] - The original extension language introduced in TinyMUCK it is faster than MPI and commonly used for larger projects.

==Types of MUCK Servers==
*[[TinyMUCK]] - Original fork of [[TinyMUD]] that added the MUF programming language (as it's most notable feature).
*[[FuzzBall MUCK]] - Current most popular TinyMUCK server that runs the two biggest servers.
*[[GlowMUCK]] - FuzzBall variant.
*[[NeonMUCK]] - FuzzBall variant.
*[[ProtoMUCK]] - Branched from both to Glow and NeonMUCK, fairly popular in smaller Mucks.
*[[ngMUCK]] - Not truly a Muck fork, it is an attempt to rewrite the Muck engine, not currently complete.

== Most popular furry-themed MUCKs ==
''This is just a highlight - for a virtually complete list, see [http://tigerden.com/infopage/muck/ Rhal's Furry MU*s Connector] or explore WikiFur's [[:Category:Multiplayer_worlds|multiplayer worlds category]].''

* [[Tapestries MUCK]] - An adult-oriented MUCK with no human characters allowed. This is the largest furry-themed MUCK in terms of users, attaining about 800 connections at peak time.
* [[FurryMUCK]] - The "original" MUCK for furries.
* [[Sociopolitical Ramifications]] - A sci-fi furry MUCK, with 60-80 connections nightly.
* [[Le Jardin Mystique MUCK]] - Adult furry themed MUCK.

== See also ==
*[[MU*]] overview
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUD]]
*[[MUSE]]
*[[MUSH]]
*[[MUX]]

== External links ==
* [http://www.rdwarf.com/users/mink/muckman/index.html The MUCK Manual]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUSH

2007-05-09T21:09:01Z

WhiteFire: /* Types of Servers */

A '''MUSH''' (acronym for '''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''S'''hared '''H'''allucination) is a type of [[MUD]] which is often used for social and [[role-playing]] activities. It is derived from "''Tinymud''", an early mud server. Its distinguishing features are that any player can typically extend the virtual world by building new rooms and objects, and its internal programming language, MUSHcode, which is considered to be fairly easy to learn and preferred by many.

There are a number of flavors of MUSH server freely available to those who want to run their own MUSHes: [http://tinymush.sourceforge.net/ TinyMUSH 3.0], [http://www.tinymux.com/ TinyMUX 2.4], and [http://pennmush.org PennMUSH 1.8.x]. TinyMUSH uses a disk-based database, while PennMUSH keeps its database in the computer's memory (TinyMUX can do either). This makes PennMUSH suitable for computers which have plenty of memory or little disk space. From a user standpoint they offer many similar features and a very similar command parser.<ref>[http://pennmush.org PennMUSH.org]</ref>

MUSHes are similar to [[MUCK]]s in that they carry many users for either [[Out Of Character|out of character]] (OOC) or [[In Character|in character]] (IC) purposes. Like MUCKs, MUSHes are not necessarily furry, but some do have furry themes.

==Types of MUSH Servers==
There are four major MUSH code bases currently in use<ref>[http://www.tinymux.org/wiki/index.php/History History] from the [http://www.tinymux.org/wiki/index.php TinyMUX wiki]</ref>:
* TinyMUSH - TinyMUSH 3.x is based on a merge of TinyMUSH 2.2 and TinyMUX 1.x. TinyMUSH 2.2 is based on TinyMUSH 2.0 which is based on TinyCRWU and PernMUSH (the code) which are in turn based on MicroMUSE, TinyMUSH 1.0, and ultimately from TinyMUD.
* PennMUSH - PennMUSH derives from PernMUSH (the code), MicroMUSE, TinyMUSH 1.0 and ultimately from TinyMUD.
* TinyMUX - TinyMUX 2.0 is based on TinyMUX 1.x which in turn is based on TinyMUSH 2.0 and ultimately TinyMUD.
* RhostMUSH - Details unknown.

== Examples ==
* [http://www.pennmush.org/mush/ <nowiki>M*U*S*H</nowiki>] - The live sandbox for projects on the PennMUSH code base and also the official MUSH used as the testing ground for new PennMUSH server code updates. All patches are tested there first before being released to the public. This is primarily an OOC MUSH.
* [[Shangrila]] - Adult-oriented MUX, attaining anywhere from over 200 to almost 600 connections.
* [[Beast Wars Transformers MUSH]]
* [[FurryMUSH]]
* [[Loneport MUSH]]
* [[My Little Pony MUSH]]
* [[Pokémorph MUSH]]
* [[Starfox MUSH]]
* [[Thunder Trails MUSH]]
* [[Wild Spirits MUSH]]

==See Also==
* [[MUCK]] - Another TinyMUD variant commonly used in [[furry]] fandom.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

Talk:MUCK

2007-05-09T21:06:36Z

WhiteFire:

Talk:MUCK

2007-05-09T20:58:32Z

WhiteFire: Reversion discussion.

MUCK

2007-05-09T20:55:11Z

WhiteFire: Undo revision 136855 by Special:Contributions/SpazKitty (User talk:SpazKitty) See talk.

A '''MUCK''' is an online [[role-playing]] game that is usually text-based and accessible through telnet, as well as a variety of MUCK clients. The term MUCK doesn't actually stand for anything, but is rather a play on the word "MUD", which stands for "Multi User Dungeon/Domain". However, the popular [[wikipedia:backronym|backronym]] for MUCK is "'''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''C'''reated '''K'''ingdom".

Each MUCK has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUCKs allow [[player]]s to be [[Out Of Character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[In Character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUCK.

Most MUCKs allow players to build. Creation might be restricted to simple objects, expanded to rooms and exits, or policy might allow for complex scripting. The creation and customization aspects of MUCK allow the player base to build a world.

The term 'mucking' means playing on a MUCK.

== Most popular furry-themed MUCKs ==

''This is just a highlight - for a virtually complete list, see [http://tigerden.com/infopage/muck/ Rhal's Furry MU*s Connector] or explore WikiFur's [[:Category:Multiplayer_worlds|multiplayer worlds category]].''

* [[Tapestries MUCK]] - An adult-oriented MUCK with no human characters allowed. This is the largest furry-themed MUCK in terms of users, attaining about 800 connections at peak time.
* [[FurryMUCK]] - The "original" MUCK for furries.
* [[Sociopolitical Ramifications]] - A sci-fi furry MUCK, with 60-80 connections nightly.
* [[Le Jardin Mystique MUCK]] - Adult furry themed MUCK.

== See also ==

'''[[TinyMUCK]] variants:'''
*[[FuzzBall MUCK]]
*[[GlowMUCK]]
*[[NeonMUCK]]
*[[ProtoMUCK]]
*[[ngMUCK]]

'''Programming languages within MUCKs:'''
*[[MPI]]
*[[MUF]]

'''Alternatives to MUCK:'''
*[[MU*]] overview
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUD]]
*[[MUSE]]
*[[MUSH]]
*[[MUX]]
*[[Furcadia]]
*[[Second Life]]

== External links ==

* [http://www.rdwarf.com/users/mink/muckman/index.html The MUCK Manual]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUCK

2007-05-09T06:28:33Z

WhiteFire: /* Most popular furry-themed MUCKs */

A '''MUCK''' is an online [[role-playing]] game that is usually text-based and accessible through telnet, as well as a variety of MUCK clients. The term MUCK doesn't actually stand for anything, but is rather a play on the word "MUD", which stands for "Multi User Dungeon/Domain". However, the popular [[wikipedia:backronym|backronym]] for MUCK is "'''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''C'''reated '''K'''ingdom".

Each MUCK has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUCKs allow [[player]]s to be [[Out Of Character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[In Character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUCK.

Most MUCKs allow players to build. Creation might be restricted to simple objects, expanded to rooms and exits, or policy might allow for complex scripting. The creation and customization aspects of MUCK allow the player base to build a world.

The term 'mucking' means playing on a MUCK.

== Most popular furry-themed MUCKs ==

''This is just a highlight - for a virtually complete list, see [http://tigerden.com/infopage/muck/ Rhal's Furry MU*s Connector] or explore WikiFur's [[:Category:Multiplayer_worlds|multiplayer worlds category]].''

* [[Tapestries MUCK]] - An adult-oriented MUCK with no human characters allowed. This is the largest furry-themed MUCK in terms of users, attaining about 800 connections at peak time.
* [[FurryMUCK]] - The "original" MUCK for furries.
* [[Sociopolitical Ramifications]] - A sci-fi furry MUCK, with 60-80 connections nightly.
* [[Le Jardin Mystique MUCK]] - Adult furry themed MUCK.

== See also ==

'''[[TinyMUCK]] variants:'''
*[[FuzzBall MUCK]]
*[[GlowMUCK]]
*[[NeonMUCK]]
*[[ProtoMUCK]]
*[[ngMUCK]]

'''Programming languages within MUCKs:'''
*[[MPI]]
*[[MUF]]

'''Alternatives to MUCK:'''
*[[MU*]] overview
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUD]]
*[[MUSE]]
*[[MUSH]]
*[[MUX]]
*[[Furcadia]]
*[[Second Life]]

== External links ==

* [http://www.rdwarf.com/users/mink/muckman/index.html The MUCK Manual]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUD

2007-05-09T06:17:42Z

WhiteFire: /* See also */

MUCK

2007-05-09T06:14:46Z

WhiteFire: /* Most popular furry-themed MUCKs */ Moved Shangrila to MUSH

A '''MUCK''' is an online [[role-playing]] game that is usually text-based and accessible through telnet, as well as a variety of MUCK clients. The term MUCK doesn't actually stand for anything, but is rather a play on the word "MUD", which stands for "Multi User Dungeon/Domain". However, the popular [[wikipedia:backronym|backronym]] for MUCK is "'''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''C'''reated '''K'''ingdom".

Each MUCK has its own sets of rules and policies. Some MUCKs allow [[player]]s to be [[Out Of Character]] (OOC) as much as they like, while others require them to be [[In Character]] (IC) more often, or always. Rules can vary in different areas of the MUCK.

Most MUCKs allow players to build. Creation might be restricted to simple objects, expanded to rooms and exits, or policy might allow for complex scripting. The creation and customization aspects of MUCK allow the player base to build a world.

The term 'mucking' means playing on a MUCK.

== Most popular furry-themed MUCKs ==

''This is just a highlight - for a virtually complete list, see [http://tigerden.com/infopage/muck/ Rhal's Furry MU*s Connector] or explore WikiFur's [[:Category:Multiplayer_worlds|multiplayer worlds category]].''

* [[Tapestries MUCK]] - An adult-oriented MUCK with no human characters allowed. This is the largest furry-themed MUCK in terms of users, attaining about 800 connections at peak time.
* [[FurryMUCK]] - The "original" MUCK for furries.
* [[Sociopolitical Ramifications]] - A sci-fi furry MUCK, with 60-80 connections nightly.

== See also ==

'''[[TinyMUCK]] variants:'''
*[[FuzzBall MUCK]]
*[[GlowMUCK]]
*[[NeonMUCK]]
*[[ProtoMUCK]]
*[[ngMUCK]]

'''Programming languages within MUCKs:'''
*[[MPI]]
*[[MUF]]

'''Alternatives to MUCK:'''
*[[MU*]] overview
*[[MOO]]
*[[MUD]]
*[[MUSE]]
*[[MUSH]]
*[[MUX]]
*[[Furcadia]]
*[[Second Life]]

== External links ==

* [http://www.rdwarf.com/users/mink/muckman/index.html The MUCK Manual]

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUSH

2007-05-09T06:12:35Z

WhiteFire: Added MUCK see also.

A '''MUSH''' (acronym for '''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''S'''hared '''H'''allucination) is a type of [[MUD]] which is often used for social and [[role-playing]] activities. It is derived from "''Tinymud''", an early mud server. Its distinguishing features are that any player can typically extend the virtual world by building new rooms and objects, and its internal programming language, MUSHcode, which is considered to be fairly easy to learn and preferred by many.

There are a number of flavors of MUSH server freely available to those who want to run their own MUSHes: [http://tinymush.sourceforge.net/ TinyMUSH 3.0], [http://www.tinymux.com/ TinyMUX 2.4], and [http://pennmush.org PennMUSH 1.8.x]. TinyMUSH uses a disk-based database, while PennMUSH keeps its database in the computer's memory (TinyMUX can do either). This makes PennMUSH suitable for computers which have plenty of memory or little disk space. From a user standpoint they offer many similar features and a very similar command parser.<ref>[http://pennmush.org PennMUSH.org]</ref>

MUSHes are similar to [[MUCK]]s in that they carry many users for either [[Out Of Character|out of character]] (OOC) or [[In Character|in character]] (IC) purposes. Like MUCKs, MUSHes are not necessarily furry, but some do have furry themes.

==Types of Servers==
There are four major MUSH code bases currently in use<ref>[http://www.tinymux.org/wiki/index.php/History History] from the [http://www.tinymux.org/wiki/index.php TinyMUX wiki]</ref>:
* TinyMUSH - TinyMUSH 3.x is based on a merge of TinyMUSH 2.2 and TinyMUX 1.x. TinyMUSH 2.2 is based on TinyMUSH 2.0 which is based on TinyCRWU and PernMUSH (the code) which are in turn based on MicroMUSE, TinyMUSH 1.0, and ultimately from TinyMUD.
* PennMUSH - PennMUSH derives from PernMUSH (the code), MicroMUSE, TinyMUSH 1.0 and ultimately from TinyMUD.
* TinyMUX - TinyMUX 2.0 is based on TinyMUX 1.x which in turn is based on TinyMUSH 2.0 and ultimately TinyMUD.
* RhostMUSH - Details unknown.

== Examples ==
* [http://www.pennmush.org/mush/ <nowiki>M*U*S*H</nowiki>] - The live sandbox for projects on the PennMUSH code base and also the official MUSH used as the testing ground for new PennMUSH server code updates. All patches are tested there first before being released to the public. This is primarily an OOC MUSH.
* [[Shangrila]] - Adult-oriented MUX, attaining anywhere from over 200 to almost 600 connections.
* [[Beast Wars Transformers MUSH]]
* [[FurryMUSH]]
* [[Loneport MUSH]]
* [[My Little Pony MUSH]]
* [[Pokémorph MUSH]]
* [[Starfox MUSH]]
* [[Thunder Trails MUSH]]
* [[Wild Spirits MUSH]]

==See Also==
* [[MUCK]] - Another TinyMUD variant commonly used in [[furry]] fandom.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUSH

2007-05-09T06:11:01Z

WhiteFire: /* Examples */ Moved Shangrila from MUCK

A '''MUSH''' (acronym for '''M'''ulti-'''U'''ser '''S'''hared '''H'''allucination) is a type of [[MUD]] which is often used for social and [[role-playing]] activities. It is derived from "''Tinymud''", an early mud server. Its distinguishing features are that any player can typically extend the virtual world by building new rooms and objects, and its internal programming language, MUSHcode, which is considered to be fairly easy to learn and preferred by many.

There are a number of flavors of MUSH server freely available to those who want to run their own MUSHes: [http://tinymush.sourceforge.net/ TinyMUSH 3.0], [http://www.tinymux.com/ TinyMUX 2.4], and [http://pennmush.org PennMUSH 1.8.x]. TinyMUSH uses a disk-based database, while PennMUSH keeps its database in the computer's memory (TinyMUX can do either). This makes PennMUSH suitable for computers which have plenty of memory or little disk space. From a user standpoint they offer many similar features and a very similar command parser.<ref>[http://pennmush.org PennMUSH.org]</ref>

MUSHes are similar to [[MUCK]]s in that they carry many users for either [[Out Of Character|out of character]] (OOC) or [[In Character|in character]] (IC) purposes. Like MUCKs, MUSHes are not necessarily furry, but some do have furry themes.

==Types of Servers==
There are four major MUSH code bases currently in use<ref>[http://www.tinymux.org/wiki/index.php/History History] from the [http://www.tinymux.org/wiki/index.php TinyMUX wiki]</ref>:
* TinyMUSH - TinyMUSH 3.x is based on a merge of TinyMUSH 2.2 and TinyMUX 1.x. TinyMUSH 2.2 is based on TinyMUSH 2.0 which is based on TinyCRWU and PernMUSH (the code) which are in turn based on MicroMUSE, TinyMUSH 1.0, and ultimately from TinyMUD.
* PennMUSH - PennMUSH derives from PernMUSH (the code), MicroMUSE, TinyMUSH 1.0 and ultimately from TinyMUD.
* TinyMUX - TinyMUX 2.0 is based on TinyMUX 1.x which in turn is based on TinyMUSH 2.0 and ultimately TinyMUD.
* RhostMUSH - Details unknown.

== Examples ==
* [http://www.pennmush.org/mush/ <nowiki>M*U*S*H</nowiki>] - The live sandbox for projects on the PennMUSH code base and also the official MUSH used as the testing ground for new PennMUSH server code updates. All patches are tested there first before being released to the public. This is primarily an OOC MUSH.
* [[Shangrila]] - Adult-oriented MUX, attaining anywhere from over 200 to almost 600 connections.
* [[Beast Wars Transformers MUSH]]
* [[FurryMUSH]]
* [[Loneport MUSH]]
* [[My Little Pony MUSH]]
* [[Pokémorph MUSH]]
* [[Starfox MUSH]]
* [[Thunder Trails MUSH]]
* [[Wild Spirits MUSH]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Acronyms]]
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]

MUX

2007-05-09T06:08:23Z

WhiteFire: Turns out MUSH already defines MUX.

#REDIRECT [[MUSH]]

User:WhiteFire

2007-05-09T05:58:43Z

WhiteFire: /* Todo */

{| style="float:right"
|{{ContributorU}}
|}
Like. Um. Look at my [[WhiteFire|person page]] or something.

==Todo==
* Merge [[MUX]] into [[MUSH]].
* [[Role-playing]] needs help badly.

===Done===
* Merge [[Realms MUCK]] into [[RealmsMUCK]]

==Boxes!==
{| style="width: 100%;"
|-
|{{User Yiffstar Name|WhiteFire Sondergaard}}
|{{User Fur Affinity Name|-WhiteFire-}}
|{{User VCL Name|WhiteFire}}
|-
|{{User Second Life Name|WhiteFire Sondergaard}}
|{{User Further Confusion}}
|{{User ConFurence East}}
|-
|{{User Anthrocon}}
|{{User ConFurence}}
|}

TinySex

2007-05-09T05:05:55Z

WhiteFire: /* Origins */ reference for the tiny- prefix.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}
'''TinySex''', also known as TS or tiny.sex and other variations, is a specific subset of Cybersex. Cybersex refers to a virtual sex encounter in which two or more persons connected remotely via a computer network send one another sexually explicit messages describing a sexual experience. It is a form of [[role-playing]] in which the participants pretend they are having actual sexual relations. In one iteration, this fantasy sex is accomplished by the participants describing their actions and responding to their chat partners in a mostly written form designed to stimulate their own sexual feelings and fantasies.<ref>[[wikipedia:TinySex|TinySex]] on [[Wikipedia]]</ref>

TinySex is mostly used to describe Cybersex on [[MUD|TinyMUD]]s, [[MUCK]]s, [[MUSH]]es, and sometimes [[IRC]].

TinySex between furs is colloquially referred to as [[yiffing]] although yiffing itself is not restricted to TinySex.

==Origins==
'''TinySex''''s origins are related to the social MUD branch's use of the TinyMUD name and habit of players to refer to everything in the game with the prefix tiny-. An example is the term tinybody used to refer to the body of a TinyMUD character.<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20050903204434/http://www.dragonmud.org/dragonmud/dmaux/tinysex.html DragonMUD's TinySex definition] on web.archive.org.</ref>

The prefix tiny- itself is no longer in heavy usage, however the term TinySex stuck.

== References ==
<references/>

== External links ==
* [http://www.furnation.com/kashra/tinysex/TinySex.htm The Unofficial Guide to TinySex] by [[Kashra]]
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry.muck/msg/4e094a46fba477cd?dmode=source A Beginner's Guide to TinySex on the FurryMuck]. July 1996 post by [[scary]] to [[alt.fan.furry.muck]]

{{Wikipedia|Cybersex}}
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]
[[Category:Mature terms]]

Talk:TinySex

2007-05-09T03:43:03Z

WhiteFire:

Just a note: Etymology would be the word's origins and history, not just a definition. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 11:26, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:It ''was'' the word's origin. Not so hot on the history of its use, admittedly. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}}

::Looks to me more like the origin of its definition. The term itself appears to be related to various other "tiny-" terms, which themselves echo "TinyMUCK", the codebase from which FuzzBall originated, and which ran Islandia and other early fur havens. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 03:07, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)

If you are using [[Wikipedia]] in a reference, how would that be handled? Where to do you put the references tag since someone might later put in references that go elsewhere?

I removed the DragonMUD definition as it is redundant. I intended to use it as a reference for tinybodies, but their website seems to have been redone since the time that quote was extracted and is no longer available. --[[User:WhiteFire|WhiteFire]]([[User talk:WhiteFire|talk]]) 03:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

TinySex

2007-05-09T03:40:42Z

WhiteFire: Almost entirely rewritten to be based more on the more current term Cybersex.

{{rating-nc17-button2}}
'''TinySex''', also known as TS or tiny.sex and other variations, is a specific subset of Cybersex. Cybersex refers to a virtual sex encounter in which two or more persons connected remotely via a computer network send one another sexually explicit messages describing a sexual experience. It is a form of [[role-playing]] in which the participants pretend they are having actual sexual relations. In one iteration, this fantasy sex is accomplished by the participants describing their actions and responding to their chat partners in a mostly written form designed to stimulate their own sexual feelings and fantasies.<ref>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TinySex TinySex] on [[Wikipedia]]</ref>

TinySex is mostly used to describe Cybersex on [[MUD|TinyMUD]]s, [[MUCK]]s, [[MUSH]]es, and sometimes [[IRC]].

TinySex between furs is colloquially referred to as [[yiffing]] although yiffing itself is not restricted to TinySex.

==Origins==
'''TinySex''''s origins are related to the social MUD branch's use of the TinyMUD name and habit of players to refer to everything in the game with the prefix tiny-. An example is the term tinybody used to refer to the body of a TinyMUD character.

The prefix tiny- itself is no longer in heavy usage, however the term TinySex stuck.

== External links ==
<references/>
* [http://www.furnation.com/kashra/tinysex/TinySex.htm The Unofficial Guide to TinySex] by [[Kashra]]
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry.muck/msg/4e094a46fba477cd?dmode=source A Beginner's Guide to TinySex on the FurryMuck]. July 1996 post by [[scary]] to [[alt.fan.furry.muck]]

{{Wikipedia|Cybersex}}
[[Category:Multiplayer world terms]]
[[Category:Mature terms]]