WikiFur - User contributions [en]

User:Viona

2011-04-27T18:25:44Z

Viona:

Hi, I'm Viona. :3 Most interested in anything related to cats.
I'm also a coder and moderator for F-list, so if you recognize my name, maybe that's why.~

'''Contact info'''
:YIM: vionakitten
:F-list: [http://www.f-list.net/c/Viona Viona]

User:Viona

2011-04-27T18:25:04Z

Viona:

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T18:24:03Z

Viona: /* Exclusion request */

Please do not revert information which is supported. Thank you. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 23:07, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==Exclusion request==
The subejct of this article has requested [[WikiFur:Personal exclusion|personal exclusion]]. Should it be granted? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:56, 6 April 2011 (CEST)
: At the risk of sounding like I have a personal issue, my opinion is that given the ban from F-List and the reason for it, the subject is of interest to the community and should not be excluded. However, if not excluded, the article remains editable and any edits mentioning what the issue was and why (banning) will likely continue to be reverted. The noteworthiness of his ban from Second Life does not strike me as being as great, largely because Linden Labs does not publish the fact of a ban or the reason for it; the reference appears to be from the subject's own website, so if he hadn't posted anything about it, it would likely never have been known. The references are available in the edit history of the article if anyone should care to peruse them. As I'm the one who has reverted the recent reversions and it seems as if I'm starting to take this a bit personally, I think I'd better leave it for cooler heads. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:15, 7 April 2011 (CEST)
: F-List and me both wanted to drop the event as we resolved it long ago, Keeping on this is just pointless, The second life bans are barely worth mentioning because they are the results of internal conflicts that are not relevant to the public, The bans are more or less issues with selected people in LL. And the minecraft thing isn't notable to me at all as most of those bans are from servers I never visited, are are the result of a discussion on a IRC channel and preemptive strikes on me. This page serves nothing but to highlight extreme negatives and further defame my name and cause humiliation. This page was infact created by trolls against me from the F-List incident, A complete issue that was between me and F-List which was resolved. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:39, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:: If personal exclusion will not be granted I request that noindex tags be added. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:44, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::: <s>I am strongly against exclusion and noindex tags because it is being requested by Zidonuke in an attempt to coverup or otherwise impeade people's ability to become aware of his well earned bad reputation. Quite simply, Zidonuke is a cunt who gain's people's trust only to fuck them over later. He did it on F-List and he is now doing it on Minecraft. People have a right to know about the positive AND negative sides of a subject and in this case its unfortunate that Zidonuke has a totally negative reputation but this is his fault, and his fault alone. He now has to live with that reputation and or show that he has changed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:12, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::: I don't see how that would make sense. If exclusion is refused, the reason would be to allow others to discover your past when dealing with you. The way to resolve this is not to try to cover it up or change your name in an attempt to escape your actions, but to ''stop doing the stuff mentioned in the article''. You can keep on the path you're on or you can turn around and change these into youthful indiscretions. I've seen both done on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:15, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::: And furthermore, even 13 hours ago on YouTube "Currently willing to grief servers with hacks. Leave IP here."[http://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition]. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:43, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::: <s>The addition of his contribution to hungle is interesting. In total, he made less than 5 commits to the huggle codebase (out of 500+ in total) and has since had his commit access revoked for reasons unclear, I feel the scale of his contribution to huggle is not represented by the current context and furthermore misrepresents the timeline, his limited contributions to the Huggle project were in Oct 2010, the F-list / Secondlife / Minecraft stuff came after that. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 17:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
:::::: I still feel that Leon Hunter is a single solitary troll that is out for blood for me for his own personal reasons rather than doing things for the the good of everyone. I believe that unless other contributors can work with my article that it should be taken down. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 20:09, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::::: <s>Firstly, I am no troll. I am a person who has been affected by your actions and I don't take kindly to that. But all that aside, you can't fuck people over as you did with F-List and Minecraft and then cry foul when people don't say nice things about you and feel motivated to make your history well known so people treat you with a level of caution when it comes to positions of trust. Secondly, I am not alone in this view, there are many people who have been affected like me who wish to make sure your history is represented in a factual manner and whilst you dont like the facts, they are the facts. I have better things to do than to troll some shithead kid, trust me, but making your history known so that you dont weasel your way into another project that affects me IS within my interests and the interests of people in the furry community. If I was out for blood I would do so in more innovative ways then merely editing your WikiFur article. Live with the consequences of your own actions. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:10, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::::::Oh and btw, Cute SL Avi (seriously) [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:13, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::::::::I'm agreeing with Leon on this one. Furthermore, Zidonuke has stated that he's okay with F-List now, but I can state with certainty that this is not the case. If we (F-list's moderators, admins and coders) were on good terms with Zidonuke, certainly he would not remain banned now.
::::::::Also, as said earlier; this article's purpose is not to slander your name, it's to provide information. Zidonuke has proven several times that he's a very unpredictable person, gaining people's trust only to stab them in the backs later on. I think it's interesting to know that when Zidonuke "hacked" F-list, he didn't do this on impulse. He had backdoors installed on the server, which evidences that he had been planning an outburst like this all along. So, he never did things because he has an anger management problem, but simply because it's what he does - probably because he enjoys it. Zidonuke has repeatedly shown that he's not willing to stop all this either, so I think this page covers a matter that concerns everybody. It's important to tell people who to avoid. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 12:37, 13 April 2011 (CEST)
:I ran into multiple personal issues with the page existing now. I beg to request its takedown at this point... Seriously... I have to keep explaining myself to everyone who even sees the page now... [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 01:48, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:: <s>You have to explain yourself? Thats more than the users of f-list, minecraft and secondlife ever got. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)</s>
:::I've had a change of heart on this issue, I've spoken to Zidonuke personally on Steam out of interest. He is indeed a person, with his own set of issues and I no longer feel it is appropriate for Wikifur to be used as a smackboard in this instance. I feel that the article smacks of punitive punishment and privacy evasion which, if the old saying two wrongs dont make a right is anything to go by, isnt the right thing to do. I think Zidonuke generally lets his emotions and at times bordom get in the way of his otherwise outstanding contributions to various projects and '''his requiest to be excluded must respected'''. I honestly think that Zido is somewhat scared because people are instantly disliking him due to this article and are making that well known to him, Wikifur has a duty of care here and a moral obligation to not impose unwanted attention on people if its going to affect thier health and I think that this is potentially the case with Zidonuke. I recognise this might be seen as the backflip of the centuary but talk to Zido, he's more human than you would think. I started this article myself and 90% of the substance has come from myself alone, I would also like said content removed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:57, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:::: Wow, that was really drastic. At first you're being 100% rational about this stuff, now you're fully letting your emotions take control of your opinions. Yes, this article may conflict with moral values regarding Zidonuke, but removing the page would conflict with any moral values regarding the people he has hacked in the past, and the people he will be hacking in the future. Even -during- his attack against F-list, he kept telling the site's founder that he was sorry (and that he'd quit doing stuff), right before taking a next step and making things even worse. If Zidonuke has been telling you that he's sorry about the stuff he's done, and you believe him, then you're just another person to have fallen for his blatant lies. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 08:08, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::Did he hack you or did you fail to vet your staff properly? If I recall correctly it was the later so F-List staff coming here preaching anti-zidonuke slogans does your image no favours when you gave said person all the access in the world without any peer review of actions. It could have been anyone that did what Zidonuke did. In any case, when I wrote the article its sole purpose was a punitive retaliation to what he had done on F-List and as we all know WikiFur is not the place for this. As it stands the article still serves that same purpose. I cite various WikiFur policies in support of exclusion including ''"In addition, not everyone is a public personality, and some take offense at the idea that other people would be able to write anything they want about them on a public site. Yes, this is the wiki way, but remember that WikiFur is not intended to hurt anyone. In general, it is sensible not to include people who do not wish to be included in WikiFur. This is usually not a problem if they really don't want to have a presence here. "'' and furthermore ''"If you do not wish to be included in WikiFur, please contact an administrator requesting removal. The request will need to come from a verifiable address. In most cases, your request will be granted. This will entail complete removal of the article about you, and its replacement with the notice"''. That is the policy regarding exclusion, some people might say it leaves a margin of judgement by the admins but seriously who are the admins to decide wether someones genuine request for exclusion be up held or not, the person requesting exclusion should not change the outcome it is common decensy. Talking of the future is somewhat interesting because you dont know if he is going to change, or if he isnt and your claims regarding him continuing (after saying sorry) are at best unverifiable and I wont take them on face value as you seem to have a vested interest in shit canning Zido. WikiFur has moral obligations here, the page has been used to oust Zidonuke's personal, real life information and those revisions are still accessible which I strongly disagree with, the least GreenReaper could do is respect Zidonuke's request. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 08:41, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::So you mean that, in case a person abuses their admin privileges, the other admins are to blame, because they gave them these privileges. Eh, okay... I'd like to note that Zidonuke helped out quite a lot at first, and gained Hexxy's trust on a personal level. People are no robots, and are never predictable, so what Zidonuke did couldn't have been helped -- It could just as well have been one of the other admins or coders who destroyed the website on a rage trip, but they don't do that, since they're not the kind of hacker that Zidonuke is. (At least, I kinda trust they aren't... As I said, nobody is predictable.) To respond to your last point: If your concern is the personal RL information on this page, then I'm fully okay with that. Remove the line saying that Zidonuke lives in Virginia, and there'll be no more privacy issues. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 09:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::::Given some further thought, the article lacks neutrality and details what he has done in the past without going into his motivations or context for doing so at the time. He of course out of moral obligation, can't reveal these motivations without breaking the confidentiality of in-staff discussions and what bullshit was happening behind the scenes at F-list that triggered him to do all this. So if he can't tell the his side than I see no reason for the article to exist in any way shape or form. Lastly, Zidonuke is not a hacker, hackers break into systems, every incident ive seen involved people handing him access on a silver platter and pissing him off later. I also got a smile out of the fact you side stepped most my arguements, including wikifur's own policy on this matter and the ones you did address you turned into [[w:Straw_man|Straw man]] arguements. Running for politics anytime soon? [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::::I'm certainly not opposed to adding details about his motivation, but I'd like such information to be valid before it is posted. Of course, I won't be able to crawl into his head to check whether what he says was his actual motivation, but if his explanations contain any fallacies, I will continue pointing them out. From what you've been posting (and been saying to me in private), you seem to be intent of having his side of the story included, which is good, but you seem to be really reluctant to anything I can tell you as a person who witnessed everything from a first row seat. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 14:17, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::::Anyway, I'm going to refrain from posting here, at least for now, because the kind of support Zidonuke is getting is starting to frustrate me. I don't want to post anything that might slander Leon, myself, F-list or Zidonuke, so I'll keep from giving myself the chance to do that. In case it's required, I'll gladly talk about this in private though. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 14:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

== Rather ridiculous page ==

It was a very useful page when it still stated that he used to be an admin on f-list, and that he abused his power there. It was then reverted to simply stating that he's a furry and a programmer, which held no informational value whatsoever. But the way it is right now is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. "Best known for his work on F-list and Second Life"? He is not known for either of these, simply because his "work" mostly existed of hacking into everything that was remotely hackable. I suggest we either remove this page entirely, or put some truth on it, concerning what exactly makes Zidonuke a noteworthy person. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 16:24, 8 April 2011 (CEST)
:Notability is not required for an article. However, those supporting the refusal of an exclusion request should provide a clear reason for doing so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)

==Removal of personal information==
I am requesting that in lieu of the article being excluded, information such as Zidonuke's location and real name be removed from both past and present revisions as they serve no useful purpose and exist solely to out Zidonuke's real life identity. Furthermore it violates privacy acts in certain jurisdictions to have such information listed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:05, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
: I honestly don't mind his private information being removed, as I already stated in the previous discussion. All I want is that innocent people's security is higher on the priority list than a criminal's "security". In other words, people have the right to know this person's past, so that they can protect themselves against him. They don't need to know his real name for that, since he never uses it as a handle online anyway. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 11:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:I am fine with this, with the understanding that it will not affect any furry aliases which he may use now or in the future. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::I can't forsee anyone using thier real name as an alias, if that arises Im sure it can be dealt with at the time. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:50, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

==Innocent until proven guilty?==

I've heard of what he did, but no ones proved any facts, wikifur is not a court.

Innocent until proven guilty? it seems to me these edits are an attempt at a kangaroo court? Viona, What jurisdiction are you in that you think it's ok to off the wall call him a career criminal without any real world legal trail taking place or a psychologist saying such. When he's within the custody of a court or prison service and has been sentenced by a Judge with a crime that's a proven fact he's committed then he's a criminal, and up until the single point he has served that amount of time a Judge asked him to serve and has left the jurisdiction of that court or prison service.

I don't see him charged with any crime, no link to any court documents or any evidence it was escalated beyond a TOS violation, so you don't have a free speech right to call him a criminal though he may have committed acts that where against the TOS of such websites and his punishment was a banned account, not a trip to court so please remember the rules on defamation, protecting the innocent is not an excuse for you to meek out your own brand of long term personal punishment.

It makes you look like a vigilante out for personal justice and vengeance. Which is what you appear to be in your own words, I've had experience with your types and I've been watching this and I'm disgusted in your attitude you're not a judge and neither is wikifur it's supposed to be factual not hearsay, back up what you say with facts linked to a court document or stop editing. If it's the truth then some part of it's ok to say but calling someone a criminal before it's a proven fact by a court of law might fall under defamation, and protecting the innocent as you put it should not be at the expense of his personal and legal rights. --[[User:Bunjie|Bunjie]] 12:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:Hmm hmm, now what exactly is the purpose of this post? Is it to call me a hypocrite? Is it to urge me into providing proof for what has happened? Is it to have stuff on here removed? You seem to be jumping from one subject onto another, and I'm not even sure whether you're getting ad hominem against me or not. Nevertheless, your first point is valid. Wikifur is not a court, therefore "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply here. We know what has happened, and what Zidonuke has done. Zidonuke has admitted it and has talked about it in public on multiple occasions. You know just as well as I do that he's wronged many people, and if I take the liberty to call him a criminal, I might be exaggerating (although I heard some rumours about Minecraft server owners dragging him to court, but then again, rumours are just rumours) but I'm certainly not in the wrong to do so. And no, I'm not here for personal vengeance. I'm simply here to protect the integrity of this article by posting the things I know. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 13:49, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T18:18:49Z

Viona: /* Exclusion request */

Please do not revert information which is supported. Thank you. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 23:07, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==Exclusion request==
The subejct of this article has requested [[WikiFur:Personal exclusion|personal exclusion]]. Should it be granted? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:56, 6 April 2011 (CEST)
: At the risk of sounding like I have a personal issue, my opinion is that given the ban from F-List and the reason for it, the subject is of interest to the community and should not be excluded. However, if not excluded, the article remains editable and any edits mentioning what the issue was and why (banning) will likely continue to be reverted. The noteworthiness of his ban from Second Life does not strike me as being as great, largely because Linden Labs does not publish the fact of a ban or the reason for it; the reference appears to be from the subject's own website, so if he hadn't posted anything about it, it would likely never have been known. The references are available in the edit history of the article if anyone should care to peruse them. As I'm the one who has reverted the recent reversions and it seems as if I'm starting to take this a bit personally, I think I'd better leave it for cooler heads. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:15, 7 April 2011 (CEST)
: F-List and me both wanted to drop the event as we resolved it long ago, Keeping on this is just pointless, The second life bans are barely worth mentioning because they are the results of internal conflicts that are not relevant to the public, The bans are more or less issues with selected people in LL. And the minecraft thing isn't notable to me at all as most of those bans are from servers I never visited, are are the result of a discussion on a IRC channel and preemptive strikes on me. This page serves nothing but to highlight extreme negatives and further defame my name and cause humiliation. This page was infact created by trolls against me from the F-List incident, A complete issue that was between me and F-List which was resolved. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:39, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:: If personal exclusion will not be granted I request that noindex tags be added. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:44, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::: <s>I am strongly against exclusion and noindex tags because it is being requested by Zidonuke in an attempt to coverup or otherwise impeade people's ability to become aware of his well earned bad reputation. Quite simply, Zidonuke is a cunt who gain's people's trust only to fuck them over later. He did it on F-List and he is now doing it on Minecraft. People have a right to know about the positive AND negative sides of a subject and in this case its unfortunate that Zidonuke has a totally negative reputation but this is his fault, and his fault alone. He now has to live with that reputation and or show that he has changed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:12, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::: I don't see how that would make sense. If exclusion is refused, the reason would be to allow others to discover your past when dealing with you. The way to resolve this is not to try to cover it up or change your name in an attempt to escape your actions, but to ''stop doing the stuff mentioned in the article''. You can keep on the path you're on or you can turn around and change these into youthful indiscretions. I've seen both done on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:15, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::: And furthermore, even 13 hours ago on YouTube "Currently willing to grief servers with hacks. Leave IP here."[http://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition]. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:43, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::: <s>The addition of his contribution to hungle is interesting. In total, he made less than 5 commits to the huggle codebase (out of 500+ in total) and has since had his commit access revoked for reasons unclear, I feel the scale of his contribution to huggle is not represented by the current context and furthermore misrepresents the timeline, his limited contributions to the Huggle project were in Oct 2010, the F-list / Secondlife / Minecraft stuff came after that. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 17:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
:::::: I still feel that Leon Hunter is a single solitary troll that is out for blood for me for his own personal reasons rather than doing things for the the good of everyone. I believe that unless other contributors can work with my article that it should be taken down. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 20:09, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::::: <s>Firstly, I am no troll. I am a person who has been affected by your actions and I don't take kindly to that. But all that aside, you can't fuck people over as you did with F-List and Minecraft and then cry foul when people don't say nice things about you and feel motivated to make your history well known so people treat you with a level of caution when it comes to positions of trust. Secondly, I am not alone in this view, there are many people who have been affected like me who wish to make sure your history is represented in a factual manner and whilst you dont like the facts, they are the facts. I have better things to do than to troll some shithead kid, trust me, but making your history known so that you dont weasel your way into another project that affects me IS within my interests and the interests of people in the furry community. If I was out for blood I would do so in more innovative ways then merely editing your WikiFur article. Live with the consequences of your own actions. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:10, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::::::Oh and btw, Cute SL Avi (seriously) [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:13, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::::::::I'm agreeing with Leon on this one. Furthermore, Zidonuke has stated that he's okay with F-List now, but I can state with certainty that this is not the case. If we (F-list's moderators, admins and coders) were on good terms with Zidonuke, certainly he would not remain banned now.
::::::::Also, as said earlier; this article's purpose is not to slander your name, it's to provide information. Zidonuke has proven several times that he's a very unpredictable person, gaining people's trust only to stab them in the backs later on. I think it's interesting to know that when Zidonuke "hacked" F-list, he didn't do this on impulse. He had backdoors installed on the server, which evidences that he had been planning an outburst like this all along. So, he never did things because he has an anger management problem, but simply because it's what he does - probably because he enjoys it. Zidonuke has repeatedly shown that he's not willing to stop all this either, so I think this page covers a matter that concerns everybody. It's important to tell people who to avoid. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 12:37, 13 April 2011 (CEST)
:I ran into multiple personal issues with the page existing now. I beg to request its takedown at this point... Seriously... I have to keep explaining myself to everyone who even sees the page now... [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 01:48, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:: <s>You have to explain yourself? Thats more than the users of f-list, minecraft and secondlife ever got. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)</s>
:::I've had a change of heart on this issue, I've spoken to Zidonuke personally on Steam out of interest. He is indeed a person, with his own set of issues and I no longer feel it is appropriate for Wikifur to be used as a smackboard in this instance. I feel that the article smacks of punitive punishment and privacy evasion which, if the old saying two wrongs dont make a right is anything to go by, isnt the right thing to do. I think Zidonuke generally lets his emotions and at times bordom get in the way of his otherwise outstanding contributions to various projects and '''his requiest to be excluded must respected'''. I honestly think that Zido is somewhat scared because people are instantly disliking him due to this article and are making that well known to him, Wikifur has a duty of care here and a moral obligation to not impose unwanted attention on people if its going to affect thier health and I think that this is potentially the case with Zidonuke. I recognise this might be seen as the backflip of the centuary but talk to Zido, he's more human than you would think. I started this article myself and 90% of the substance has come from myself alone, I would also like said content removed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:57, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:::: Wow, that was really drastic. At first you're being 100% rational about this stuff, now you're fully letting your emotions take control of your opinions. Yes, this article may conflict with moral values regarding Zidonuke, but removing the page would conflict with any moral values regarding the people he has hacked in the past, and the people he will be hacking in the future. Even -during- his attack against F-list, he kept telling the site's founder that he was sorry (and that he'd quit doing stuff), right before taking a next step and making things even worse. If Zidonuke has been telling you that he's sorry about the stuff he's done, and you believe him, then you're just another person to have fallen for his blatant lies. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 08:08, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::Did he hack you or did you fail to vet your staff properly? If I recall correctly it was the later so F-List staff coming here preaching anti-zidonuke slogans does your image no favours when you gave said person all the access in the world without any peer review of actions. It could have been anyone that did what Zidonuke did. In any case, when I wrote the article its sole purpose was a punitive retaliation to what he had done on F-List and as we all know WikiFur is not the place for this. As it stands the article still serves that same purpose. I cite various WikiFur policies in support of exclusion including ''"In addition, not everyone is a public personality, and some take offense at the idea that other people would be able to write anything they want about them on a public site. Yes, this is the wiki way, but remember that WikiFur is not intended to hurt anyone. In general, it is sensible not to include people who do not wish to be included in WikiFur. This is usually not a problem if they really don't want to have a presence here. "'' and furthermore ''"If you do not wish to be included in WikiFur, please contact an administrator requesting removal. The request will need to come from a verifiable address. In most cases, your request will be granted. This will entail complete removal of the article about you, and its replacement with the notice"''. That is the policy regarding exclusion, some people might say it leaves a margin of judgement by the admins but seriously who are the admins to decide wether someones genuine request for exclusion be up held or not, the person requesting exclusion should not change the outcome it is common decensy. Talking of the future is somewhat interesting because you dont know if he is going to change, or if he isnt and your claims regarding him continuing (after saying sorry) are at best unverifiable and I wont take them on face value as you seem to have a vested interest in shit canning Zido. WikiFur has moral obligations here, the page has been used to oust Zidonuke's personal, real life information and those revisions are still accessible which I strongly disagree with, the least GreenReaper could do is respect Zidonuke's request. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 08:41, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::So you mean that, in case a person abuses their admin privileges, the other admins are to blame, because they gave them these privileges. Eh, okay... I'd like to note that Zidonuke helped out quite a lot at first, and gained Hexxy's trust on a personal level. People are no robots, and are never predictable, so what Zidonuke did couldn't have been helped -- It could just as well have been one of the other admins or coders who destroyed the website on a rage trip, but they don't do that, since they're not the kind of hacker that Zidonuke is. (At least, I kinda trust they aren't... As I said, nobody is predictable.) To respond to your last point: If your concern is the personal RL information on this page, then I'm fully okay with that. Remove the line saying that Zidonuke lives in Virginia, and there'll be no more privacy issues. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 09:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::::Given some further thought, the article lacks neutrality and details what he has done in the past without going into his motivations or context for doing so at the time. He of course out of moral obligation, can't reveal these motivations without breaking the confidentiality of in-staff discussions and what bullshit was happening behind the scenes at F-list that triggered him to do all this. So if he can't tell the his side than I see no reason for the article to exist in any way shape or form. Lastly, Zidonuke is not a hacker, hackers break into systems, every incident ive seen involved people handing him access on a silver platter and pissing him off later. I also got a smile out of the fact you side stepped most my arguements, including wikifur's own policy on this matter and the ones you did address you turned into [[w:Straw_man|Straw man]] arguements. Running for politics anytime soon? [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::::I'm certainly not opposed to adding details about his motivation, but I'd like such information to be valid before it is posted. Of course, I won't be able to crawl into his head to check whether what he says was his actual motivation, but if his explanations contain any fallacies, I will continue pointing them out. From what you've been posting (and been saying to me in private), you seem to be intent of having his side of the story included, which is good, but you seem to be really reluctant to anything I can tell you as a person who witnessed everything from a first row seat. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 14:17, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

== Rather ridiculous page ==

It was a very useful page when it still stated that he used to be an admin on f-list, and that he abused his power there. It was then reverted to simply stating that he's a furry and a programmer, which held no informational value whatsoever. But the way it is right now is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. "Best known for his work on F-list and Second Life"? He is not known for either of these, simply because his "work" mostly existed of hacking into everything that was remotely hackable. I suggest we either remove this page entirely, or put some truth on it, concerning what exactly makes Zidonuke a noteworthy person. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 16:24, 8 April 2011 (CEST)
:Notability is not required for an article. However, those supporting the refusal of an exclusion request should provide a clear reason for doing so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)

==Removal of personal information==
I am requesting that in lieu of the article being excluded, information such as Zidonuke's location and real name be removed from both past and present revisions as they serve no useful purpose and exist solely to out Zidonuke's real life identity. Furthermore it violates privacy acts in certain jurisdictions to have such information listed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:05, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
: I honestly don't mind his private information being removed, as I already stated in the previous discussion. All I want is that innocent people's security is higher on the priority list than a criminal's "security". In other words, people have the right to know this person's past, so that they can protect themselves against him. They don't need to know his real name for that, since he never uses it as a handle online anyway. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 11:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:I am fine with this, with the understanding that it will not affect any furry aliases which he may use now or in the future. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::I can't forsee anyone using thier real name as an alias, if that arises Im sure it can be dealt with at the time. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:50, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

==Innocent until proven guilty?==

I've heard of what he did, but no ones proved any facts, wikifur is not a court.

Innocent until proven guilty? it seems to me these edits are an attempt at a kangaroo court? Viona, What jurisdiction are you in that you think it's ok to off the wall call him a career criminal without any real world legal trail taking place or a psychologist saying such. When he's within the custody of a court or prison service and has been sentenced by a Judge with a crime that's a proven fact he's committed then he's a criminal, and up until the single point he has served that amount of time a Judge asked him to serve and has left the jurisdiction of that court or prison service.

I don't see him charged with any crime, no link to any court documents or any evidence it was escalated beyond a TOS violation, so you don't have a free speech right to call him a criminal though he may have committed acts that where against the TOS of such websites and his punishment was a banned account, not a trip to court so please remember the rules on defamation, protecting the innocent is not an excuse for you to meek out your own brand of long term personal punishment.

It makes you look like a vigilante out for personal justice and vengeance. Which is what you appear to be in your own words, I've had experience with your types and I've been watching this and I'm disgusted in your attitude you're not a judge and neither is wikifur it's supposed to be factual not hearsay, back up what you say with facts linked to a court document or stop editing. If it's the truth then some part of it's ok to say but calling someone a criminal before it's a proven fact by a court of law might fall under defamation, and protecting the innocent as you put it should not be at the expense of his personal and legal rights. --[[User:Bunjie|Bunjie]] 12:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:Hmm hmm, now what exactly is the purpose of this post? Is it to call me a hypocrite? Is it to urge me into providing proof for what has happened? Is it to have stuff on here removed? You seem to be jumping from one subject onto another, and I'm not even sure whether you're getting ad hominem against me or not. Nevertheless, your first point is valid. Wikifur is not a court, therefore "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply here. We know what has happened, and what Zidonuke has done. Zidonuke has admitted it and has talked about it in public on multiple occasions. You know just as well as I do that he's wronged many people, and if I take the liberty to call him a criminal, I might be exaggerating (although I heard some rumours about Minecraft server owners dragging him to court, but then again, rumours are just rumours) but I'm certainly not in the wrong to do so. And no, I'm not here for personal vengeance. I'm simply here to protect the integrity of this article by posting the things I know. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 13:49, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T18:17:57Z

Viona: /* Exclusion request */

Please do not revert information which is supported. Thank you. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 23:07, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==Exclusion request==
The subejct of this article has requested [[WikiFur:Personal exclusion|personal exclusion]]. Should it be granted? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:56, 6 April 2011 (CEST)
: At the risk of sounding like I have a personal issue, my opinion is that given the ban from F-List and the reason for it, the subject is of interest to the community and should not be excluded. However, if not excluded, the article remains editable and any edits mentioning what the issue was and why (banning) will likely continue to be reverted. The noteworthiness of his ban from Second Life does not strike me as being as great, largely because Linden Labs does not publish the fact of a ban or the reason for it; the reference appears to be from the subject's own website, so if he hadn't posted anything about it, it would likely never have been known. The references are available in the edit history of the article if anyone should care to peruse them. As I'm the one who has reverted the recent reversions and it seems as if I'm starting to take this a bit personally, I think I'd better leave it for cooler heads. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:15, 7 April 2011 (CEST)
: F-List and me both wanted to drop the event as we resolved it long ago, Keeping on this is just pointless, The second life bans are barely worth mentioning because they are the results of internal conflicts that are not relevant to the public, The bans are more or less issues with selected people in LL. And the minecraft thing isn't notable to me at all as most of those bans are from servers I never visited, are are the result of a discussion on a IRC channel and preemptive strikes on me. This page serves nothing but to highlight extreme negatives and further defame my name and cause humiliation. This page was infact created by trolls against me from the F-List incident, A complete issue that was between me and F-List which was resolved. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:39, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:: If personal exclusion will not be granted I request that noindex tags be added. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:44, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::: <s>I am strongly against exclusion and noindex tags because it is being requested by Zidonuke in an attempt to coverup or otherwise impeade people's ability to become aware of his well earned bad reputation. Quite simply, Zidonuke is a cunt who gain's people's trust only to fuck them over later. He did it on F-List and he is now doing it on Minecraft. People have a right to know about the positive AND negative sides of a subject and in this case its unfortunate that Zidonuke has a totally negative reputation but this is his fault, and his fault alone. He now has to live with that reputation and or show that he has changed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:12, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::: I don't see how that would make sense. If exclusion is refused, the reason would be to allow others to discover your past when dealing with you. The way to resolve this is not to try to cover it up or change your name in an attempt to escape your actions, but to ''stop doing the stuff mentioned in the article''. You can keep on the path you're on or you can turn around and change these into youthful indiscretions. I've seen both done on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:15, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::: And furthermore, even 13 hours ago on YouTube "Currently willing to grief servers with hacks. Leave IP here."[http://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition]. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:43, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::: <s>The addition of his contribution to hungle is interesting. In total, he made less than 5 commits to the huggle codebase (out of 500+ in total) and has since had his commit access revoked for reasons unclear, I feel the scale of his contribution to huggle is not represented by the current context and furthermore misrepresents the timeline, his limited contributions to the Huggle project were in Oct 2010, the F-list / Secondlife / Minecraft stuff came after that. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 17:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
:::::: I still feel that Leon Hunter is a single solitary troll that is out for blood for me for his own personal reasons rather than doing things for the the good of everyone. I believe that unless other contributors can work with my article that it should be taken down. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 20:09, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::::: <s>Firstly, I am no troll. I am a person who has been affected by your actions and I don't take kindly to that. But all that aside, you can't fuck people over as you did with F-List and Minecraft and then cry foul when people don't say nice things about you and feel motivated to make your history well known so people treat you with a level of caution when it comes to positions of trust. Secondly, I am not alone in this view, there are many people who have been affected like me who wish to make sure your history is represented in a factual manner and whilst you dont like the facts, they are the facts. I have better things to do than to troll some shithead kid, trust me, but making your history known so that you dont weasel your way into another project that affects me IS within my interests and the interests of people in the furry community. If I was out for blood I would do so in more innovative ways then merely editing your WikiFur article. Live with the consequences of your own actions. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:10, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::::::Oh and btw, Cute SL Avi (seriously) [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:13, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::::::::I'm agreeing with Leon on this one. Furthermore, Zidonuke has stated that he's okay with F-List now, but I can state with certainty that this is not the case. If we (F-list's moderators, admins and coders) were on good terms with Zidonuke, certainly he would not remain banned now.
::::::::Also, as said earlier; this article's purpose is not to slander your name, it's to provide information. Zidonuke has proven several times that he's a very unpredictable person, gaining people's trust only to stab them in the backs later on. I think it's interesting to know that when Zidonuke "hacked" F-list, he didn't do this on impulse. He had backdoors installed on the server, which evidences that he had been planning an outburst like this all along. So, he never did things because he has an anger management problem, but simply because it's what he does - probably because he enjoys it. Zidonuke has repeatedly shown that he's not willing to stop all this either, so I think this page covers a matter that concerns everybody. It's important to tell people who to avoid. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 12:37, 13 April 2011 (CEST)
:I ran into multiple personal issues with the page existing now. I beg to request its takedown at this point... Seriously... I have to keep explaining myself to everyone who even sees the page now... [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 01:48, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:: <s>You have to explain yourself? Thats more than the users of f-list, minecraft and secondlife ever got. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)</s>
:::I've had a change of heart on this issue, I've spoken to Zidonuke personally on Steam out of interest. He is indeed a person, with his own set of issues and I no longer feel it is appropriate for Wikifur to be used as a smackboard in this instance. I feel that the article smacks of punitive punishment and privacy evasion which, if the old saying two wrongs dont make a right is anything to go by, isnt the right thing to do. I think Zidonuke generally lets his emotions and at times bordom get in the way of his otherwise outstanding contributions to various projects and '''his requiest to be excluded must respected'''. I honestly think that Zido is somewhat scared because people are instantly disliking him due to this article and are making that well known to him, Wikifur has a duty of care here and a moral obligation to not impose unwanted attention on people if its going to affect thier health and I think that this is potentially the case with Zidonuke. I recognise this might be seen as the backflip of the centuary but talk to Zido, he's more human than you would think. I started this article myself and 90% of the substance has come from myself alone, I would also like said content removed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:57, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:::: Wow, that was really drastic. At first you're being 100% rational about this stuff, now you're fully letting your emotions take control of your opinions. Yes, this article may conflict with moral values regarding Zidonuke, but removing the page would conflict with any moral values regarding the people he has hacked in the past, and the people he will be hacking in the future. Even -during- his attack against F-list, he kept telling the site's founder that he was sorry (and that he'd quit doing stuff), right before taking a next step and making things even worse. If Zidonuke has been telling you that he's sorry about the stuff he's done, and you believe him, then you're just another person to have fallen for his blatant lies. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 08:08, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::Did he hack you or did you fail to vet your staff properly? If I recall correctly it was the later so F-List staff coming here preaching anti-zidonuke slogans does your image no favours when you gave said person all the access in the world without any peer review of actions. It could have been anyone that did what Zidonuke did. In any case, when I wrote the article its sole purpose was a punitive retaliation to what he had done on F-List and as we all know WikiFur is not the place for this. As it stands the article still serves that same purpose. I cite various WikiFur policies in support of exclusion including ''"In addition, not everyone is a public personality, and some take offense at the idea that other people would be able to write anything they want about them on a public site. Yes, this is the wiki way, but remember that WikiFur is not intended to hurt anyone. In general, it is sensible not to include people who do not wish to be included in WikiFur. This is usually not a problem if they really don't want to have a presence here. "'' and furthermore ''"If you do not wish to be included in WikiFur, please contact an administrator requesting removal. The request will need to come from a verifiable address. In most cases, your request will be granted. This will entail complete removal of the article about you, and its replacement with the notice"''. That is the policy regarding exclusion, some people might say it leaves a margin of judgement by the admins but seriously who are the admins to decide wether someones genuine request for exclusion be up held or not, the person requesting exclusion should not change the outcome it is common decensy. Talking of the future is somewhat interesting because you dont know if he is going to change, or if he isnt and your claims regarding him continuing (after saying sorry) are at best unverifiable and I wont take them on face value as you seem to have a vested interest in shit canning Zido. WikiFur has moral obligations here, the page has been used to oust Zidonuke's personal, real life information and those revisions are still accessible which I strongly disagree with, the least GreenReaper could do is respect Zidonuke's request. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 08:41, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::So you mean that, in case a person abuses their admin privileges, the other admins are to blame, because they gave them these privileges. Eh, okay... I'd like to note that Zidonuke helped out quite a lot at first, and gained Hexxy's trust on a personal level. People are no robots, and are never predictable, so what Zidonuke did couldn't have been helped -- It could just as well have been one of the other admins or coders who destroyed the website on a rage trip, but they don't do that, since they're not the kind of hacker that Zidonuke is. (At least, I kinda trust they aren't... As I said, nobody is predictable.) To respond to your last point: If your concern is the personal RL information on this page, then I'm fully okay with that. Remove the line saying that Zidonuke lives in Virginia, and there'll be no more privacy issues. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 09:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::::Given some further thought, the article lacks neutrality and details what he has done in the past without going into his motivations or context for doing so at the time. He of course out of moral obligation, can't reveal these motivations without breaking the confidentiality of in-staff discussions and what bullshit was happening behind the scenes at F-list that triggered him to do all this. So if he can't tell the his side than I see no reason for the article to exist in any way shape or form. Lastly, Zidonuke is not a hacker, hackers break into systems, every incident ive seen involved people handing him access on a silver platter and pissing him off later. I also got a smile out of the fact you side stepped most my arguements, including wikifur's own policy on this matter and the ones you did address you turned into [[w:Straw_man|Straw man]] arguements. Running for politics anytime soon? [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::::I'm certainly not opposed to adding details about his motivation, but I'd like such information to be valid before it is posted. Of course, I won't be able to crawl into his head to check whether what he says was his actual motivation, but if his explanations contain any fallacies, I will continue pointing them out. From what you've been posting (and been saying to me in private), you seem to be intent of having his side of the story included, which is good, but you seem to be really hesitant to listen to F-list's side of the story. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 14:17, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

== Rather ridiculous page ==

It was a very useful page when it still stated that he used to be an admin on f-list, and that he abused his power there. It was then reverted to simply stating that he's a furry and a programmer, which held no informational value whatsoever. But the way it is right now is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. "Best known for his work on F-list and Second Life"? He is not known for either of these, simply because his "work" mostly existed of hacking into everything that was remotely hackable. I suggest we either remove this page entirely, or put some truth on it, concerning what exactly makes Zidonuke a noteworthy person. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 16:24, 8 April 2011 (CEST)
:Notability is not required for an article. However, those supporting the refusal of an exclusion request should provide a clear reason for doing so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)

==Removal of personal information==
I am requesting that in lieu of the article being excluded, information such as Zidonuke's location and real name be removed from both past and present revisions as they serve no useful purpose and exist solely to out Zidonuke's real life identity. Furthermore it violates privacy acts in certain jurisdictions to have such information listed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:05, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
: I honestly don't mind his private information being removed, as I already stated in the previous discussion. All I want is that innocent people's security is higher on the priority list than a criminal's "security". In other words, people have the right to know this person's past, so that they can protect themselves against him. They don't need to know his real name for that, since he never uses it as a handle online anyway. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 11:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:I am fine with this, with the understanding that it will not affect any furry aliases which he may use now or in the future. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::I can't forsee anyone using thier real name as an alias, if that arises Im sure it can be dealt with at the time. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:50, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

==Innocent until proven guilty?==

I've heard of what he did, but no ones proved any facts, wikifur is not a court.

Innocent until proven guilty? it seems to me these edits are an attempt at a kangaroo court? Viona, What jurisdiction are you in that you think it's ok to off the wall call him a career criminal without any real world legal trail taking place or a psychologist saying such. When he's within the custody of a court or prison service and has been sentenced by a Judge with a crime that's a proven fact he's committed then he's a criminal, and up until the single point he has served that amount of time a Judge asked him to serve and has left the jurisdiction of that court or prison service.

I don't see him charged with any crime, no link to any court documents or any evidence it was escalated beyond a TOS violation, so you don't have a free speech right to call him a criminal though he may have committed acts that where against the TOS of such websites and his punishment was a banned account, not a trip to court so please remember the rules on defamation, protecting the innocent is not an excuse for you to meek out your own brand of long term personal punishment.

It makes you look like a vigilante out for personal justice and vengeance. Which is what you appear to be in your own words, I've had experience with your types and I've been watching this and I'm disgusted in your attitude you're not a judge and neither is wikifur it's supposed to be factual not hearsay, back up what you say with facts linked to a court document or stop editing. If it's the truth then some part of it's ok to say but calling someone a criminal before it's a proven fact by a court of law might fall under defamation, and protecting the innocent as you put it should not be at the expense of his personal and legal rights. --[[User:Bunjie|Bunjie]] 12:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:Hmm hmm, now what exactly is the purpose of this post? Is it to call me a hypocrite? Is it to urge me into providing proof for what has happened? Is it to have stuff on here removed? You seem to be jumping from one subject onto another, and I'm not even sure whether you're getting ad hominem against me or not. Nevertheless, your first point is valid. Wikifur is not a court, therefore "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply here. We know what has happened, and what Zidonuke has done. Zidonuke has admitted it and has talked about it in public on multiple occasions. You know just as well as I do that he's wronged many people, and if I take the liberty to call him a criminal, I might be exaggerating (although I heard some rumours about Minecraft server owners dragging him to court, but then again, rumours are just rumours) but I'm certainly not in the wrong to do so. And no, I'm not here for personal vengeance. I'm simply here to protect the integrity of this article by posting the things I know. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 13:49, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T17:50:48Z

Viona: /* Innocent until proven guilty? */

Please do not revert information which is supported. Thank you. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 23:07, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==Exclusion request==
The subejct of this article has requested [[WikiFur:Personal exclusion|personal exclusion]]. Should it be granted? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:56, 6 April 2011 (CEST)
: At the risk of sounding like I have a personal issue, my opinion is that given the ban from F-List and the reason for it, the subject is of interest to the community and should not be excluded. However, if not excluded, the article remains editable and any edits mentioning what the issue was and why (banning) will likely continue to be reverted. The noteworthiness of his ban from Second Life does not strike me as being as great, largely because Linden Labs does not publish the fact of a ban or the reason for it; the reference appears to be from the subject's own website, so if he hadn't posted anything about it, it would likely never have been known. The references are available in the edit history of the article if anyone should care to peruse them. As I'm the one who has reverted the recent reversions and it seems as if I'm starting to take this a bit personally, I think I'd better leave it for cooler heads. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:15, 7 April 2011 (CEST)
: F-List and me both wanted to drop the event as we resolved it long ago, Keeping on this is just pointless, The second life bans are barely worth mentioning because they are the results of internal conflicts that are not relevant to the public, The bans are more or less issues with selected people in LL. And the minecraft thing isn't notable to me at all as most of those bans are from servers I never visited, are are the result of a discussion on a IRC channel and preemptive strikes on me. This page serves nothing but to highlight extreme negatives and further defame my name and cause humiliation. This page was infact created by trolls against me from the F-List incident, A complete issue that was between me and F-List which was resolved. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:39, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:: If personal exclusion will not be granted I request that noindex tags be added. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:44, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::: <s>I am strongly against exclusion and noindex tags because it is being requested by Zidonuke in an attempt to coverup or otherwise impeade people's ability to become aware of his well earned bad reputation. Quite simply, Zidonuke is a cunt who gain's people's trust only to fuck them over later. He did it on F-List and he is now doing it on Minecraft. People have a right to know about the positive AND negative sides of a subject and in this case its unfortunate that Zidonuke has a totally negative reputation but this is his fault, and his fault alone. He now has to live with that reputation and or show that he has changed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:12, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::: I don't see how that would make sense. If exclusion is refused, the reason would be to allow others to discover your past when dealing with you. The way to resolve this is not to try to cover it up or change your name in an attempt to escape your actions, but to ''stop doing the stuff mentioned in the article''. You can keep on the path you're on or you can turn around and change these into youthful indiscretions. I've seen both done on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:15, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::: And furthermore, even 13 hours ago on YouTube "Currently willing to grief servers with hacks. Leave IP here."[http://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition]. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:43, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::: <s>The addition of his contribution to hungle is interesting. In total, he made less than 5 commits to the huggle codebase (out of 500+ in total) and has since had his commit access revoked for reasons unclear, I feel the scale of his contribution to huggle is not represented by the current context and furthermore misrepresents the timeline, his limited contributions to the Huggle project were in Oct 2010, the F-list / Secondlife / Minecraft stuff came after that. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 17:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
:::::: I still feel that Leon Hunter is a single solitary troll that is out for blood for me for his own personal reasons rather than doing things for the the good of everyone. I believe that unless other contributors can work with my article that it should be taken down. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 20:09, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::::: <s>Firstly, I am no troll. I am a person who has been affected by your actions and I don't take kindly to that. But all that aside, you can't fuck people over as you did with F-List and Minecraft and then cry foul when people don't say nice things about you and feel motivated to make your history well known so people treat you with a level of caution when it comes to positions of trust. Secondly, I am not alone in this view, there are many people who have been affected like me who wish to make sure your history is represented in a factual manner and whilst you dont like the facts, they are the facts. I have better things to do than to troll some shithead kid, trust me, but making your history known so that you dont weasel your way into another project that affects me IS within my interests and the interests of people in the furry community. If I was out for blood I would do so in more innovative ways then merely editing your WikiFur article. Live with the consequences of your own actions. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:10, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::::::Oh and btw, Cute SL Avi (seriously) [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:13, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::::::::I'm agreeing with Leon on this one. Furthermore, Zidonuke has stated that he's okay with F-List now, but I can state with certainty that this is not the case. If we (F-list's moderators, admins and coders) were on good terms with Zidonuke, certainly he would not remain banned now.
::::::::Also, as said earlier; this article's purpose is not to slander your name, it's to provide information. Zidonuke has proven several times that he's a very unpredictable person, gaining people's trust only to stab them in the backs later on. I think it's interesting to know that when Zidonuke "hacked" F-list, he didn't do this on impulse. He had backdoors installed on the server, which evidences that he had been planning an outburst like this all along. So, he never did things because he has an anger management problem, but simply because it's what he does - probably because he enjoys it. Zidonuke has repeatedly shown that he's not willing to stop all this either, so I think this page covers a matter that concerns everybody. It's important to tell people who to avoid. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 12:37, 13 April 2011 (CEST)
:I ran into multiple personal issues with the page existing now. I beg to request its takedown at this point... Seriously... I have to keep explaining myself to everyone who even sees the page now... [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 01:48, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:: <s>You have to explain yourself? Thats more than the users of f-list, minecraft and secondlife ever got. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)</s>
:::I've had a change of heart on this issue, I've spoken to Zidonuke personally on Steam out of interest. He is indeed a person, with his own set of issues and I no longer feel it is appropriate for Wikifur to be used as a smackboard in this instance. I feel that the article smacks of punitive punishment and privacy evasion which, if the old saying two wrongs dont make a right is anything to go by, isnt the right thing to do. I think Zidonuke generally lets his emotions and at times bordom get in the way of his otherwise outstanding contributions to various projects and '''his requiest to be excluded must respected'''. I honestly think that Zido is somewhat scared because people are instantly disliking him due to this article and are making that well known to him, Wikifur has a duty of care here and a moral obligation to not impose unwanted attention on people if its going to affect thier health and I think that this is potentially the case with Zidonuke. I recognise this might be seen as the backflip of the centuary but talk to Zido, he's more human than you would think. I started this article myself and 90% of the substance has come from myself alone, I would also like said content removed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:57, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:::: Wow, that was really drastic. At first you're being 100% rational about this stuff, now you're fully letting your emotions take control of your opinions. Yes, this article may conflict with moral values regarding Zidonuke, but removing the page would conflict with any moral values regarding the people he has hacked in the past, and the people he will be hacking in the future. Even -during- his attack against F-list, he kept telling the site's founder that he was sorry (and that he'd quit doing stuff), right before taking a next step and making things even worse. If Zidonuke has been telling you that he's sorry about the stuff he's done, and you believe him, then you're just another person to have fallen for his blatant lies. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 08:08, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::Did he hack you or did you fail to vet your staff properly? If I recall correctly it was the later so F-List staff coming here preaching anti-zidonuke slogans does your image no favours when you gave said person all the access in the world without any peer review of actions. It could have been anyone that did what Zidonuke did. In any case, when I wrote the article its sole purpose was a punitive retaliation to what he had done on F-List and as we all know WikiFur is not the place for this. As it stands the article still serves that same purpose. I cite various WikiFur policies in support of exclusion including ''"In addition, not everyone is a public personality, and some take offense at the idea that other people would be able to write anything they want about them on a public site. Yes, this is the wiki way, but remember that WikiFur is not intended to hurt anyone. In general, it is sensible not to include people who do not wish to be included in WikiFur. This is usually not a problem if they really don't want to have a presence here. "'' and furthermore ''"If you do not wish to be included in WikiFur, please contact an administrator requesting removal. The request will need to come from a verifiable address. In most cases, your request will be granted. This will entail complete removal of the article about you, and its replacement with the notice"''. That is the policy regarding exclusion, some people might say it leaves a margin of judgement by the admins but seriously who are the admins to decide wether someones genuine request for exclusion be up held or not, the person requesting exclusion should not change the outcome it is common decensy. Talking of the future is somewhat interesting because you dont know if he is going to change, or if he isnt and your claims regarding him continuing (after saying sorry) are at best unverifiable and I wont take them on face value as you seem to have a vested interest in shit canning Zido. WikiFur has moral obligations here, the page has been used to oust Zidonuke's personal, real life information and those revisions are still accessible which I strongly disagree with, the least GreenReaper could do is respect Zidonuke's request. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 08:41, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::So you mean that, in case a person abuses their admin privileges, the other admins are to blame, because they gave them these privileges. Eh, okay... I'd like to note that Zidonuke helped out quite a lot at first, and gained Hexxy's trust on a personal level. People are no robots, and are never predictable, so what Zidonuke did couldn't have been helped -- It could just as well have been one of the other admins or coders who destroyed the website on a rage trip, but they don't do that, since they're not the kind of hacker that Zidonuke is. (At least, I kinda trust they aren't... As I said, nobody is predictable.) To respond to your last point: If your concern is the personal RL information on this page, then I'm fully okay with that. Remove the line saying that Zidonuke lives in Virginia, and there'll be no more privacy issues. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 09:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::::Given some further thought, the article lacks neutrality and details what he has done in the past without going into his motivations or context for doing so at the time. He of course out of moral obligation, can't reveal these motivations without breaking the confidentiality of in-staff discussions and what bullshit was happening behind the scenes at F-list that triggered him to do all this. So if he can't tell the his side than I see no reason for the article to exist in any way shape or form. Lastly, Zidonuke is not a hacker, hackers break into systems, every incident ive seen involved people handing him access on a silver platter and pissing him off later. I also got a smile out of the fact you side stepped most my arguements, including wikifur's own policy on this matter and the ones you did address you turned into [[w:Straw_man|Straw man]] arguements. Running for politics anytime soon? [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
== Rather ridiculous page ==

It was a very useful page when it still stated that he used to be an admin on f-list, and that he abused his power there. It was then reverted to simply stating that he's a furry and a programmer, which held no informational value whatsoever. But the way it is right now is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. "Best known for his work on F-list and Second Life"? He is not known for either of these, simply because his "work" mostly existed of hacking into everything that was remotely hackable. I suggest we either remove this page entirely, or put some truth on it, concerning what exactly makes Zidonuke a noteworthy person. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 16:24, 8 April 2011 (CEST)
:Notability is not required for an article. However, those supporting the refusal of an exclusion request should provide a clear reason for doing so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)

==Removal of personal information==
I am requesting that in lieu of the article being excluded, information such as Zidonuke's location and real name be removed from both past and present revisions as they serve no useful purpose and exist solely to out Zidonuke's real life identity. Furthermore it violates privacy acts in certain jurisdictions to have such information listed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:05, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
: I honestly don't mind his private information being removed, as I already stated in the previous discussion. All I want is that innocent people's security is higher on the priority list than a criminal's "security". In other words, people have the right to know this person's past, so that they can protect themselves against him. They don't need to know his real name for that, since he never uses it as a handle online anyway. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 11:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:I am fine with this, with the understanding that it will not affect any furry aliases which he may use now or in the future. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::I can't forsee anyone using thier real name as an alias, if that arises Im sure it can be dealt with at the time. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:50, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

==Innocent until proven guilty?==

I've heard of what he did, but no ones proved any facts, wikifur is not a court.

Innocent until proven guilty? it seems to me these edits are an attempt at a kangaroo court? Viona, What jurisdiction are you in that you think it's ok to off the wall call him a career criminal without any real world legal trail taking place or a psychologist saying such. When he's within the custody of a court or prison service and has been sentenced by a Judge with a crime that's a proven fact he's committed then he's a criminal, and up until the single point he has served that amount of time a Judge asked him to serve and has left the jurisdiction of that court or prison service.

I don't see him charged with any crime, no link to any court documents or any evidence it was escalated beyond a TOS violation, so you don't have a free speech right to call him a criminal though he may have committed acts that where against the TOS of such websites and his punishment was a banned account, not a trip to court so please remember the rules on defamation, protecting the innocent is not an excuse for you to meek out your own brand of long term personal punishment.

It makes you look like a vigilante out for personal justice and vengeance. Which is what you appear to be in your own words, I've had experience with your types and I've been watching this and I'm disgusted in your attitude you're not a judge and neither is wikifur it's supposed to be factual not hearsay, back up what you say with facts linked to a court document or stop editing. If it's the truth then some part of it's ok to say but calling someone a criminal before it's a proven fact by a court of law might fall under defamation, and protecting the innocent as you put it should not be at the expense of his personal and legal rights. --[[User:Bunjie|Bunjie]] 12:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:Hmm hmm, now what exactly is the purpose of this post? Is it to call me a hypocrite? Is it to urge me into providing proof for what has happened? Is it to have stuff on here removed? You seem to be jumping from one subject onto another, and I'm not even sure whether you're getting ad hominem against me or not. Nevertheless, your first point is valid. Wikifur is not a court, therefore "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply here. We know what has happened, and what Zidonuke has done. Zidonuke has admitted it and has talked about it in public on multiple occasions. You know just as well as I do that he's wronged many people, and if I take the liberty to call him a criminal, I might be exaggerating (although I heard some rumours about Minecraft server owners dragging him to court, but then again, rumours are just rumours) but I'm certainly not in the wrong to do so. And no, I'm not here for personal vengeance. I'm simply here to protect the integrity of this article by posting the things I know. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 13:49, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T17:49:20Z

Viona: /* Innocent until proven guilty? */

Please do not revert information which is supported. Thank you. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 23:07, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==Exclusion request==
The subejct of this article has requested [[WikiFur:Personal exclusion|personal exclusion]]. Should it be granted? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:56, 6 April 2011 (CEST)
: At the risk of sounding like I have a personal issue, my opinion is that given the ban from F-List and the reason for it, the subject is of interest to the community and should not be excluded. However, if not excluded, the article remains editable and any edits mentioning what the issue was and why (banning) will likely continue to be reverted. The noteworthiness of his ban from Second Life does not strike me as being as great, largely because Linden Labs does not publish the fact of a ban or the reason for it; the reference appears to be from the subject's own website, so if he hadn't posted anything about it, it would likely never have been known. The references are available in the edit history of the article if anyone should care to peruse them. As I'm the one who has reverted the recent reversions and it seems as if I'm starting to take this a bit personally, I think I'd better leave it for cooler heads. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:15, 7 April 2011 (CEST)
: F-List and me both wanted to drop the event as we resolved it long ago, Keeping on this is just pointless, The second life bans are barely worth mentioning because they are the results of internal conflicts that are not relevant to the public, The bans are more or less issues with selected people in LL. And the minecraft thing isn't notable to me at all as most of those bans are from servers I never visited, are are the result of a discussion on a IRC channel and preemptive strikes on me. This page serves nothing but to highlight extreme negatives and further defame my name and cause humiliation. This page was infact created by trolls against me from the F-List incident, A complete issue that was between me and F-List which was resolved. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:39, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:: If personal exclusion will not be granted I request that noindex tags be added. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:44, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::: <s>I am strongly against exclusion and noindex tags because it is being requested by Zidonuke in an attempt to coverup or otherwise impeade people's ability to become aware of his well earned bad reputation. Quite simply, Zidonuke is a cunt who gain's people's trust only to fuck them over later. He did it on F-List and he is now doing it on Minecraft. People have a right to know about the positive AND negative sides of a subject and in this case its unfortunate that Zidonuke has a totally negative reputation but this is his fault, and his fault alone. He now has to live with that reputation and or show that he has changed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:12, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::: I don't see how that would make sense. If exclusion is refused, the reason would be to allow others to discover your past when dealing with you. The way to resolve this is not to try to cover it up or change your name in an attempt to escape your actions, but to ''stop doing the stuff mentioned in the article''. You can keep on the path you're on or you can turn around and change these into youthful indiscretions. I've seen both done on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:15, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::: And furthermore, even 13 hours ago on YouTube "Currently willing to grief servers with hacks. Leave IP here."[http://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition]. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:43, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::: <s>The addition of his contribution to hungle is interesting. In total, he made less than 5 commits to the huggle codebase (out of 500+ in total) and has since had his commit access revoked for reasons unclear, I feel the scale of his contribution to huggle is not represented by the current context and furthermore misrepresents the timeline, his limited contributions to the Huggle project were in Oct 2010, the F-list / Secondlife / Minecraft stuff came after that. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 17:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
:::::: I still feel that Leon Hunter is a single solitary troll that is out for blood for me for his own personal reasons rather than doing things for the the good of everyone. I believe that unless other contributors can work with my article that it should be taken down. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 20:09, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::::: <s>Firstly, I am no troll. I am a person who has been affected by your actions and I don't take kindly to that. But all that aside, you can't fuck people over as you did with F-List and Minecraft and then cry foul when people don't say nice things about you and feel motivated to make your history well known so people treat you with a level of caution when it comes to positions of trust. Secondly, I am not alone in this view, there are many people who have been affected like me who wish to make sure your history is represented in a factual manner and whilst you dont like the facts, they are the facts. I have better things to do than to troll some shithead kid, trust me, but making your history known so that you dont weasel your way into another project that affects me IS within my interests and the interests of people in the furry community. If I was out for blood I would do so in more innovative ways then merely editing your WikiFur article. Live with the consequences of your own actions. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:10, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::::::Oh and btw, Cute SL Avi (seriously) [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:13, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::::::::I'm agreeing with Leon on this one. Furthermore, Zidonuke has stated that he's okay with F-List now, but I can state with certainty that this is not the case. If we (F-list's moderators, admins and coders) were on good terms with Zidonuke, certainly he would not remain banned now.
::::::::Also, as said earlier; this article's purpose is not to slander your name, it's to provide information. Zidonuke has proven several times that he's a very unpredictable person, gaining people's trust only to stab them in the backs later on. I think it's interesting to know that when Zidonuke "hacked" F-list, he didn't do this on impulse. He had backdoors installed on the server, which evidences that he had been planning an outburst like this all along. So, he never did things because he has an anger management problem, but simply because it's what he does - probably because he enjoys it. Zidonuke has repeatedly shown that he's not willing to stop all this either, so I think this page covers a matter that concerns everybody. It's important to tell people who to avoid. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 12:37, 13 April 2011 (CEST)
:I ran into multiple personal issues with the page existing now. I beg to request its takedown at this point... Seriously... I have to keep explaining myself to everyone who even sees the page now... [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 01:48, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:: <s>You have to explain yourself? Thats more than the users of f-list, minecraft and secondlife ever got. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)</s>
:::I've had a change of heart on this issue, I've spoken to Zidonuke personally on Steam out of interest. He is indeed a person, with his own set of issues and I no longer feel it is appropriate for Wikifur to be used as a smackboard in this instance. I feel that the article smacks of punitive punishment and privacy evasion which, if the old saying two wrongs dont make a right is anything to go by, isnt the right thing to do. I think Zidonuke generally lets his emotions and at times bordom get in the way of his otherwise outstanding contributions to various projects and '''his requiest to be excluded must respected'''. I honestly think that Zido is somewhat scared because people are instantly disliking him due to this article and are making that well known to him, Wikifur has a duty of care here and a moral obligation to not impose unwanted attention on people if its going to affect thier health and I think that this is potentially the case with Zidonuke. I recognise this might be seen as the backflip of the centuary but talk to Zido, he's more human than you would think. I started this article myself and 90% of the substance has come from myself alone, I would also like said content removed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:57, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:::: Wow, that was really drastic. At first you're being 100% rational about this stuff, now you're fully letting your emotions take control of your opinions. Yes, this article may conflict with moral values regarding Zidonuke, but removing the page would conflict with any moral values regarding the people he has hacked in the past, and the people he will be hacking in the future. Even -during- his attack against F-list, he kept telling the site's founder that he was sorry (and that he'd quit doing stuff), right before taking a next step and making things even worse. If Zidonuke has been telling you that he's sorry about the stuff he's done, and you believe him, then you're just another person to have fallen for his blatant lies. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 08:08, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::Did he hack you or did you fail to vet your staff properly? If I recall correctly it was the later so F-List staff coming here preaching anti-zidonuke slogans does your image no favours when you gave said person all the access in the world without any peer review of actions. It could have been anyone that did what Zidonuke did. In any case, when I wrote the article its sole purpose was a punitive retaliation to what he had done on F-List and as we all know WikiFur is not the place for this. As it stands the article still serves that same purpose. I cite various WikiFur policies in support of exclusion including ''"In addition, not everyone is a public personality, and some take offense at the idea that other people would be able to write anything they want about them on a public site. Yes, this is the wiki way, but remember that WikiFur is not intended to hurt anyone. In general, it is sensible not to include people who do not wish to be included in WikiFur. This is usually not a problem if they really don't want to have a presence here. "'' and furthermore ''"If you do not wish to be included in WikiFur, please contact an administrator requesting removal. The request will need to come from a verifiable address. In most cases, your request will be granted. This will entail complete removal of the article about you, and its replacement with the notice"''. That is the policy regarding exclusion, some people might say it leaves a margin of judgement by the admins but seriously who are the admins to decide wether someones genuine request for exclusion be up held or not, the person requesting exclusion should not change the outcome it is common decensy. Talking of the future is somewhat interesting because you dont know if he is going to change, or if he isnt and your claims regarding him continuing (after saying sorry) are at best unverifiable and I wont take them on face value as you seem to have a vested interest in shit canning Zido. WikiFur has moral obligations here, the page has been used to oust Zidonuke's personal, real life information and those revisions are still accessible which I strongly disagree with, the least GreenReaper could do is respect Zidonuke's request. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 08:41, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::So you mean that, in case a person abuses their admin privileges, the other admins are to blame, because they gave them these privileges. Eh, okay... I'd like to note that Zidonuke helped out quite a lot at first, and gained Hexxy's trust on a personal level. People are no robots, and are never predictable, so what Zidonuke did couldn't have been helped -- It could just as well have been one of the other admins or coders who destroyed the website on a rage trip, but they don't do that, since they're not the kind of hacker that Zidonuke is. (At least, I kinda trust they aren't... As I said, nobody is predictable.) To respond to your last point: If your concern is the personal RL information on this page, then I'm fully okay with that. Remove the line saying that Zidonuke lives in Virginia, and there'll be no more privacy issues. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 09:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::::Given some further thought, the article lacks neutrality and details what he has done in the past without going into his motivations or context for doing so at the time. He of course out of moral obligation, can't reveal these motivations without breaking the confidentiality of in-staff discussions and what bullshit was happening behind the scenes at F-list that triggered him to do all this. So if he can't tell the his side than I see no reason for the article to exist in any way shape or form. Lastly, Zidonuke is not a hacker, hackers break into systems, every incident ive seen involved people handing him access on a silver platter and pissing him off later. I also got a smile out of the fact you side stepped most my arguements, including wikifur's own policy on this matter and the ones you did address you turned into [[w:Straw_man|Straw man]] arguements. Running for politics anytime soon? [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
== Rather ridiculous page ==

It was a very useful page when it still stated that he used to be an admin on f-list, and that he abused his power there. It was then reverted to simply stating that he's a furry and a programmer, which held no informational value whatsoever. But the way it is right now is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. "Best known for his work on F-list and Second Life"? He is not known for either of these, simply because his "work" mostly existed of hacking into everything that was remotely hackable. I suggest we either remove this page entirely, or put some truth on it, concerning what exactly makes Zidonuke a noteworthy person. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 16:24, 8 April 2011 (CEST)
:Notability is not required for an article. However, those supporting the refusal of an exclusion request should provide a clear reason for doing so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)

==Removal of personal information==
I am requesting that in lieu of the article being excluded, information such as Zidonuke's location and real name be removed from both past and present revisions as they serve no useful purpose and exist solely to out Zidonuke's real life identity. Furthermore it violates privacy acts in certain jurisdictions to have such information listed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:05, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
: I honestly don't mind his private information being removed, as I already stated in the previous discussion. All I want is that innocent people's security is higher on the priority list than a criminal's "security". In other words, people have the right to know this person's past, so that they can protect themselves against him. They don't need to know his real name for that, since he never uses it as a handle online anyway. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 11:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:I am fine with this, with the understanding that it will not affect any furry aliases which he may use now or in the future. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 11:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::I can't forsee anyone using thier real name as an alias, if that arises Im sure it can be dealt with at the time. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:50, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

==Innocent until proven guilty?==

I've heard of what he did, but no ones proved any facts, wikifur is not a court.

Innocent until proven guilty? it seems to me these edits are an attempt at a kangaroo court? Viona, What jurisdiction are you in that you think it's ok to off the wall call him a career criminal without any real world legal trail taking place or a psychologist saying such. When he's within the custody of a court or prison service and has been sentenced by a Judge with a crime that's a proven fact he's committed then he's a criminal, and up until the single point he has served that amount of time a Judge asked him to serve and has left the jurisdiction of that court or prison service.

I don't see him charged with any crime, no link to any court documents or any evidence it was escalated beyond a TOS violation, so you don't have a free speech right to call him a criminal though he may have committed acts that where against the TOS of such websites and his punishment was a banned account, not a trip to court so please remember the rules on defamation, protecting the innocent is not an excuse for you to meek out your own brand of long term personal punishment.

It makes you look like a vigilante out for personal justice and vengeance. Which is what you appear to be in your own words, I've had experience with your types and I've been watching this and I'm disgusted in your attitude you're not a judge and neither is wikifur it's supposed to be factual not hearsay, back up what you say with facts linked to a court document or stop editing. If it's the truth then some part of it's ok to say but calling someone a criminal before it's a proven fact by a court of law might fall under defamation, and protecting the innocent as you put it should not be at the expense of his personal and legal rights. --[[User:Bunjie|Bunjie]] 12:14, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:Hmm hmm, now what exactly is the purpose of this post? Is it to call me a hypocrite? Is it to urge me into providing proof for what has happened? Is it to have stuff on here removed? You seem to be jumping from one subject onto another, and I'm not even sure whether you're getting ad hominem against me or not. Nevertheless, your first point is valid. Wikifur is not a court, therefore "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply here. We know what has happened, and what Zidonuke has done. Zidonuke has admitted it, he has talked about it in public, and much more. You know just as well as I do that he's wronged many people, and if I take the liberty to call him a criminal, I might be exaggerating (although I heard some rumours about Minecraft server owners dragging him to court, but then again, rumours are just rumours) but I'm certainly not in the wrong to do so. And no, I'm not here for personal vengeance. I'm simply here to protect the integrity of this article by posting the things I know. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 13:49, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T15:24:23Z

Viona: /* Removal of personal information */

Please do not revert information which is supported. Thank you. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 23:07, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

==Exclusion request==
The subejct of this article has requested [[WikiFur:Personal exclusion|personal exclusion]]. Should it be granted? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:56, 6 April 2011 (CEST)
: At the risk of sounding like I have a personal issue, my opinion is that given the ban from F-List and the reason for it, the subject is of interest to the community and should not be excluded. However, if not excluded, the article remains editable and any edits mentioning what the issue was and why (banning) will likely continue to be reverted. The noteworthiness of his ban from Second Life does not strike me as being as great, largely because Linden Labs does not publish the fact of a ban or the reason for it; the reference appears to be from the subject's own website, so if he hadn't posted anything about it, it would likely never have been known. The references are available in the edit history of the article if anyone should care to peruse them. As I'm the one who has reverted the recent reversions and it seems as if I'm starting to take this a bit personally, I think I'd better leave it for cooler heads. --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:15, 7 April 2011 (CEST)
: F-List and me both wanted to drop the event as we resolved it long ago, Keeping on this is just pointless, The second life bans are barely worth mentioning because they are the results of internal conflicts that are not relevant to the public, The bans are more or less issues with selected people in LL. And the minecraft thing isn't notable to me at all as most of those bans are from servers I never visited, are are the result of a discussion on a IRC channel and preemptive strikes on me. This page serves nothing but to highlight extreme negatives and further defame my name and cause humiliation. This page was infact created by trolls against me from the F-List incident, A complete issue that was between me and F-List which was resolved. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:39, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:: If personal exclusion will not be granted I request that noindex tags be added. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 06:44, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::: <s>I am strongly against exclusion and noindex tags because it is being requested by Zidonuke in an attempt to coverup or otherwise impeade people's ability to become aware of his well earned bad reputation. Quite simply, Zidonuke is a cunt who gain's people's trust only to fuck them over later. He did it on F-List and he is now doing it on Minecraft. People have a right to know about the positive AND negative sides of a subject and in this case its unfortunate that Zidonuke has a totally negative reputation but this is his fault, and his fault alone. He now has to live with that reputation and or show that he has changed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:12, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::: I don't see how that would make sense. If exclusion is refused, the reason would be to allow others to discover your past when dealing with you. The way to resolve this is not to try to cover it up or change your name in an attempt to escape your actions, but to ''stop doing the stuff mentioned in the article''. You can keep on the path you're on or you can turn around and change these into youthful indiscretions. I've seen both done on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:15, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::: And furthermore, even 13 hours ago on YouTube "Currently willing to grief servers with hacks. Leave IP here."[http://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition]. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 07:43, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::: <s>The addition of his contribution to hungle is interesting. In total, he made less than 5 commits to the huggle codebase (out of 500+ in total) and has since had his commit access revoked for reasons unclear, I feel the scale of his contribution to huggle is not represented by the current context and furthermore misrepresents the timeline, his limited contributions to the Huggle project were in Oct 2010, the F-list / Secondlife / Minecraft stuff came after that. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 17:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
:::::: I still feel that Leon Hunter is a single solitary troll that is out for blood for me for his own personal reasons rather than doing things for the the good of everyone. I believe that unless other contributors can work with my article that it should be taken down. [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 20:09, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
::::::: <s>Firstly, I am no troll. I am a person who has been affected by your actions and I don't take kindly to that. But all that aside, you can't fuck people over as you did with F-List and Minecraft and then cry foul when people don't say nice things about you and feel motivated to make your history well known so people treat you with a level of caution when it comes to positions of trust. Secondly, I am not alone in this view, there are many people who have been affected like me who wish to make sure your history is represented in a factual manner and whilst you dont like the facts, they are the facts. I have better things to do than to troll some shithead kid, trust me, but making your history known so that you dont weasel your way into another project that affects me IS within my interests and the interests of people in the furry community. If I was out for blood I would do so in more innovative ways then merely editing your WikiFur article. Live with the consequences of your own actions. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:10, 12 April 2011 (CEST)
:::::::Oh and btw, Cute SL Avi (seriously) [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 21:13, 12 April 2011 (CEST)</s>
::::::::I'm agreeing with Leon on this one. Furthermore, Zidonuke has stated that he's okay with F-List now, but I can state with certainty that this is not the case. If we (F-list's moderators, admins and coders) were on good terms with Zidonuke, certainly he would not remain banned now.
::::::::Also, as said earlier; this article's purpose is not to slander your name, it's to provide information. Zidonuke has proven several times that he's a very unpredictable person, gaining people's trust only to stab them in the backs later on. I think it's interesting to know that when Zidonuke "hacked" F-list, he didn't do this on impulse. He had backdoors installed on the server, which evidences that he had been planning an outburst like this all along. So, he never did things because he has an anger management problem, but simply because it's what he does - probably because he enjoys it. Zidonuke has repeatedly shown that he's not willing to stop all this either, so I think this page covers a matter that concerns everybody. It's important to tell people who to avoid. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 12:37, 13 April 2011 (CEST)
:I ran into multiple personal issues with the page existing now. I beg to request its takedown at this point... Seriously... I have to keep explaining myself to everyone who even sees the page now... [[User:Zidonuke|Zidonuke]] 01:48, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:: <s>You have to explain yourself? Thats more than the users of f-list, minecraft and secondlife ever got. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:19, 26 April 2011 (EDT)</s>
:::I've had a change of heart on this issue, I've spoken to Zidonuke personally on Steam out of interest. He is indeed a person, with his own set of issues and I no longer feel it is appropriate for Wikifur to be used as a smackboard in this instance. I feel that the article smacks of punitive punishment and privacy evasion which, if the old saying two wrongs dont make a right is anything to go by, isnt the right thing to do. I think Zidonuke generally lets his emotions and at times bordom get in the way of his otherwise outstanding contributions to various projects and '''his requiest to be excluded must respected'''. I honestly think that Zido is somewhat scared because people are instantly disliking him due to this article and are making that well known to him, Wikifur has a duty of care here and a moral obligation to not impose unwanted attention on people if its going to affect thier health and I think that this is potentially the case with Zidonuke. I recognise this might be seen as the backflip of the centuary but talk to Zido, he's more human than you would think. I started this article myself and 90% of the substance has come from myself alone, I would also like said content removed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 02:57, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
:::: Wow, that was really drastic. At first you're being 100% rational about this stuff, now you're fully letting your emotions take control of your opinions. Yes, this article may conflict with moral values regarding Zidonuke, but removing the page would conflict with any moral values regarding the people he has hacked in the past, and the people he will be hacking in the future. Even -during- his attack against F-list, he kept telling the site's founder that he was sorry (and that he'd quit doing stuff), right before taking a next step and making things even worse. If Zidonuke has been telling you that he's sorry about the stuff he's done, and you believe him, then you're just another person to have fallen for his blatant lies. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 08:08, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::Did he hack you or did you fail to vet your staff properly? If I recall correctly it was the later so F-List staff coming here preaching anti-zidonuke slogans does your image no favours when you gave said person all the access in the world without any peer review of actions. It could have been anyone that did what Zidonuke did. In any case, when I wrote the article its sole purpose was a punitive retaliation to what he had done on F-List and as we all know WikiFur is not the place for this. As it stands the article still serves that same purpose. I cite various WikiFur policies in support of exclusion including ''"In addition, not everyone is a public personality, and some take offense at the idea that other people would be able to write anything they want about them on a public site. Yes, this is the wiki way, but remember that WikiFur is not intended to hurt anyone. In general, it is sensible not to include people who do not wish to be included in WikiFur. This is usually not a problem if they really don't want to have a presence here. "'' and furthermore ''"If you do not wish to be included in WikiFur, please contact an administrator requesting removal. The request will need to come from a verifiable address. In most cases, your request will be granted. This will entail complete removal of the article about you, and its replacement with the notice"''. That is the policy regarding exclusion, some people might say it leaves a margin of judgement by the admins but seriously who are the admins to decide wether someones genuine request for exclusion be up held or not, the person requesting exclusion should not change the outcome it is common decensy. Talking of the future is somewhat interesting because you dont know if he is going to change, or if he isnt and your claims regarding him continuing (after saying sorry) are at best unverifiable and I wont take them on face value as you seem to have a vested interest in shit canning Zido. WikiFur has moral obligations here, the page has been used to oust Zidonuke's personal, real life information and those revisions are still accessible which I strongly disagree with, the least GreenReaper could do is respect Zidonuke's request. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 08:41, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
::::::So you mean that, in case a person abuses their admin privileges, the other admins are to blame, because they gave them these privileges. Eh, okay... I'd like to note that Zidonuke helped out quite a lot at first, and gained Hexxy's trust on a personal level. People are no robots, and are never predictable, so what Zidonuke did couldn't have been helped -- It could just as well have been one of the other admins or coders who destroyed the website on a rage trip, but they don't do that, since they're not the kind of hacker that Zidonuke is. (At least, I kinda trust they aren't... As I said, nobody is predictable.) To respond to your last point: If your concern is the personal RL information on this page, then I'm fully okay with that. Remove the line saying that Zidonuke lives in Virginia, and there'll be no more privacy issues. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 09:36, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
:::::::Given some further thought, the article lacks neutrality and details what he has done in the past without going into his motivations or context for doing so at the time. He of course out of moral obligation, can't reveal these motivations without breaking the confidentiality of in-staff discussions and what bullshit was happening behind the scenes at F-list that triggered him to do all this. So if he can't tell the his side than I see no reason for the article to exist in any way shape or form. Lastly, Zidonuke is not a hacker, hackers break into systems, every incident ive seen involved people handing him access on a silver platter and pissing him off later. I also got a smile out of the fact you side stepped most my arguements, including wikifur's own policy on this matter and the ones you did address you turned into [[w:Straw_man|Straw man]] arguements. Running for politics anytime soon? [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 09:42, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
== Rather ridiculous page ==

It was a very useful page when it still stated that he used to be an admin on f-list, and that he abused his power there. It was then reverted to simply stating that he's a furry and a programmer, which held no informational value whatsoever. But the way it is right now is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. "Best known for his work on F-list and Second Life"? He is not known for either of these, simply because his "work" mostly existed of hacking into everything that was remotely hackable. I suggest we either remove this page entirely, or put some truth on it, concerning what exactly makes Zidonuke a noteworthy person. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 16:24, 8 April 2011 (CEST)
:Notability is not required for an article. However, those supporting the refusal of an exclusion request should provide a clear reason for doing so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:33, 12 April 2011 (CEST)

==Removal of personal information==
I am requesting that in lieu of the article being excluded, information such as Zidonuke's location and real name be removed from both past and present revisions as they serve no useful purpose and exist solely to out Zidonuke's real life identity. Furthermore it violates privacy acts in certain jurisdictions to have such information listed. [[User:Leon Hunter|Leon Hunter]] 11:05, 27 April 2011 (EDT)
: I honestly don't mind his private information being removed, as I already stated in the previous discussion. All I want is that innocent people's security is higher on the priority list than a criminal's "security". In other words, people have the right to know this person's past, so that they can protect themselves against him. They don't need to know his real name for that, since he never uses it as a handle online anyway. [[User:Viona|Viona]] 11:24, 27 April 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T13:36:32Z

Viona: /* Exclusion request */

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-27T12:08:14Z

Viona: /* Exclusion request */

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-13T10:37:09Z

Viona: /* Exclusion request */

User:Viona

2011-04-12T14:45:01Z

Viona:

Hi, I'm Viona. :3 Most interested in anything related to cats.
I'm also a coder and moderator for F-list, so if you recognize my name, maybe that's why.~

User talk:Viona

2011-04-09T16:41:03Z

Viona: /* Welcome */

==Welcome==
Hi {{BASEPAGENAME}}, Welcome to [[WikiFur]]! Thank you for registering an account - we look forward to working with you. [[Forum:Help desk|Let us know]] if you need any [[Help:Contents|help]] not already provided. If you would like help creating an article or just editing it, don't hesitate to consult the [[Help:Furry Book of Style|Furry Book of Style]] or just contact an [[WikiFur:Administrator|administrator]]. Have a nice day! :-) --[[GingerM]] ([[User_talk:GingerM|Leave me a message]]) 00:49, 9 April 2011 (CEST)
: Thanks. ^_^ [[User:Viona|Viona]] 18:41, 9 April 2011 (CEST)

User:Viona

2011-04-08T14:26:12Z

Viona: Created page with 'Hi, I'm Viona. :3 Most interested in anything related to cats. I'm also a coder and administrator for F-list, so if you recognize my name, maybe that's why.~'

Hi, I'm Viona. :3 Most interested in anything related to cats.
I'm also a coder and administrator for F-list, so if you recognize my name, maybe that's why.~

Talk:Zidonuke

2011-04-08T14:24:08Z

Viona: /* Rather ridiculous page */ new section