WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Talk:Mix (person)

2007-07-26T05:19:04Z

Starblade: /* Dealing with the Mix conroversy. */

<div style="float:right; border:1px solid black; background-color:#EEFFEE; padding: 5px;">[[/Archive|Archive]]</div>

I received a message from Mix telling me that he posted the incident of the Something Awful t-shirt as a personal attack on [[Banrai]] because she banned him recently from one of her comms and so he was all pissed, so he decided to hurt her the best way he could and he claimed that if she released his ban, he'd take the edit down. In otherwords, his recent edits have NOT been made in good faith. Instead he's trying to use blackmail tactics here openly and blatantly, which clearly violates our rules on personal attacks. There's no looking at it any other way. Barring a full ban of Mr. Mix from WikiFur, I propose that we'd first remove the protection that we seem to be giving him. The current whitewashed mess there is quite an insult to our claim to completeness and fair and balanced and an insult to our credibility. I've been wanting to give his article an overhaul for a while with even NPOV as well as referenced sources. I've spoken to one or two other administrators in channel and they agree. If not, then I suggest complete removal. We can't do protected halfass anymore. Either they're excluded or they're fully open in the spirit of wiki. So here's my proposed options: 1)we punish Mix by suspending him from WikiFur, 2)We unlock his article and give the article itself a complete and fair overhaul. or 3)we completely remove it and leave it at that.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 18:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

: That's not blackmail, that's [[Wikipedia:Extortion|extortion]]. But anyway... I think that edits such as that which are not being made in good faith are grounds for a ban.
: As for #2 and #3, it's a question of how much drama do we want to deal with? I'm cool with #2, but we will have to deal with the resulting drama. Something to keep in mind. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 19:42, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
::Maybe not a ban, but a suspension? Or at least revocation of the "immunity" he enjoys? As far as #2 goes, as long as we back up everything written there, there isn't much room for him to talk and if it ends up in #3, oh well, but I'm willing to bet we could keep it around for similar reasons as say, Sibe. I'm not saying the article is going to be entitled "Why Mix is an Evil Bastard" because I'm sure there's more to him in this fandom than the drama he's caused. We could document that. Keep it fair and balanced instead of whitewashed.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 19:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:::So, you want to turn him into what? Another Sibe where we start releasing stuff like his real name and crap? I already spoke to you earlier about this about my feelings on this subject and no. Just no. It's not worth it. These "bad guys" who don't want their information out their deserve the same benefits the "nice guys" who ask for protection and blanking do. So, either please both sides and make everyone happy-happy, or please no one at all for the sake of encyclopedic integrity.--[[User:AshMCairo|AshMCairo]] 19:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
::::While protection is perfectly acceptable when the 'bad guys' are trying to make amends and change their ways, there must be exceptions made for those that just want to hide behind a locked page while constantly enticing more and more drama. I am of the conviction that the page should be unlocked, and Mix's deeds be documented so the public can see who he really is, with all the facts backed up. As it is, this all stinks of a cover-up. But, that's just my personal opinion, of course. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (04/30/07) 20.23 (UTC)
:::::The fact that you haven't provided an ounce of evidence for any event is justifiable. Rant all you wish about how I sexually harrassed, blackmailed, stole, and whatever else you wish to include, without a drop of evidence, you win at teh internets by doing so.
:::::Posting what I posted is true and not biased, nor attacking, nor vandalism. You're just an idiot that randomly filed a DCMA against me for having my icon up one day. Lemme restate that, you FIRST filed a counternotification against me against me using my own artwork as an icon. Then screamed 'rape and pillage' in your livejournal when I lodged one back at you. Then you became fuckbuddies with Dmuth, edited my talk page to include other rumours you heard, and didnt even have the guts to back that up with evidence, even after witnesses who aren't friends of mine told you the opposite, and also telling you to stfu. Funny thing is that both of you think this is blackmail. That is bullshit. More like revenge for 'continuing' to be a bitch and not let this shit drop. When I apollogized, it was sincere and to the point. But you had to stir the pot again and let the shit hit the fan... one... more... time... {{unsigned|Mix}}

:::::: Uh, dude? Which part of [[WikiFur:No personal attacks|No Personal Attacks]] is unclear? If you want to call us names, I suggest you do it someplace else. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::: That's a bit hard when you and your pals seem to scared to talk smack to my face. You win at teh internets too, happy happy joy joy! {{unsigned|Mix}}

:::::::: It seems to me that that you're more interested in picking a fight than you are discussing the issues. Come back when the ban expires. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 22:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::First of all, I'm lost how you can file a counternotification before a notification is filed. Second of all, I have documented proof of you actively stated that you made the following edits and contribution in an attempt to blackmail her into restoring you to a comm that she owns. By any definition, including legal, that's blackmail. Call it vengeance, call it whatever. It's immaturity, even for a furry's standards. As for your other activities, man, the links that could be brought up! The staff members that can be spoken to. Sorry, dude, but reading about your behaviour, you simply aren't a victim. If it was the recollections of a few people, I'd say sure. But there's quite a few and I doubt there's a HUGE conspiracy out there. I doubt one day someone just randomly picked on you. This kind of behaviour is from a reputation you built for yourself. You dug yourself this grave. Did Banrai build up her own negative reputation too? You sure as hell betcha! But now she is actively trying to restore her good name. Do a lot of people still not trust her? You betcha! It'll take her a long time, but she believes it's worth it and she's made the changes necessary. You continue to act and behave in the attitude that earned you the reputation in the first place. We've discussed this in the past, you and I. You have got to make a HUGE and very public (but not a negative public) 180 if you want to restore your good name as well. Like I told you this morning, BE the bigger man.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 22:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

:::Things like his real name and birthdate and such can be avoided. The thing is with the protection thing is that its fine with people who just don't want to be included in the project, that's fine. In Mix's case, it seems to be that he wants that shield so he can make edits to other people's article, but he can't be touched and I disagree with that. Many of the "good guys" have no public face and it is their private information removed and without it, the article has no content. With the "bad guys," I can remove all private information, keep the public information intact and have an article still! But in the interest of FAIRNESS, we try and maybe give a more detailed description of them outside of the drama. In the meantime, the "good guys" get their deeds and actions detailed on the WikiFur, at the same time, so do the "bad guys".--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]]

==Removal of exclusion==
Relating to the conversation found at [[Forum:Exclusion_policies]] and the reasons described there, as well as the above talk page, I propose that due to admitted malicious editing and general actions throughout the furry fandom, that this article exclusion be revoked. It is incomplete and whitewashed and deserves at least a cleanup to improve quality, if not a complete and full rewrite by the WikiFur community. Alternatively, we could grant full exclusion and complete removal, but under conditions that editing by said individual cease.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 06:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
:As noted previously, I disagree with preventing editing as a condition of complete page exclusion. Denial of exclusion should be based on public interest, not WikiFur's interests. Instead, the ''ability to edit'' - including the exclusive ability to edit the page about themselves - should be removed as the result of bad faith editing actions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
::I think there could be a level of public interest in this. This is the [[User:KendricksRedtail/Mix|proposed rewrite]]. It is complete, accurate, contains references, has been crossreferenced from existing information regarding him on WikiFur, and does not contain any "private information." Review the rewrite and decide whether it could merit public interest. I realize that this could possibly generate drama, but as a certain green Norn once told me, '''"Be bold."''' --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 07:01, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
:::I've cleaned it up a bit. I'm still not all that convinced that his actions are of a level of notability that would normally override a request for exclusion. Frankly, the only thing there that really seems significant is the artist_beware stuff. I'm concerned that the part about Aspergers' is something that is not only a personal item of information, but the very sort of thing that ''does'' match up to the concept of beating someone over the head with an offhand comment they once made, doubly so because of its relevant prominence in the lead paragraph. I'm also concerned that the meaning of some things in the original were changed - and that the full name specified was wrong. This sort of contentious article is something we're judged on. Whether or not it gos in, it has to be ''right''. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Another rather valid note that Mix makes on his LJ is that one of the people posting there, [[Rose Quoll]], has [http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/138912.html her own problems] - rather more recent and expensive than a complaint about his offer (however rude it was). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

:::: Agreed. I do not like him at all, and I have serious issues with some of the things he's done on this wiki, but I'm not sure whether his actions are sufficiently notable to warrant an article on him at this time.
:::: It wouldn't hurt to keep the rewrite around though. Things might change someday. :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying to stay out of this as much as possible to do personal angers getting in the way of a neutral stance - however I am all for this article going public. Mix has hurt many in the fandom, not just myself and a small handful of others. I could come up with a handful of links showing all sorts of debauchery, with just a short time's searching. That in itself warrants saying that Mix isn't an infamous figure in the fandom. It just seems to me like everyone is trying to downplay how Mix has time and time again hurt artists, yet are all gung-ho about taking others (such as [[Sibe]]) to the gallows. Just my thoughts. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/13/07) 19.14 (UTC)

: By all means, link us! --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 20:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

::Alright, but as I said before, I want to stay distanced from this because I do NOT want more drama started on my page. This is just evidence, as I have seen it. It may be POV, it may not. But here's what I have come up with.

::*http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/58138.html - RoseQuoll re:Mix's offer of electronic stuff.
::*http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/54917.html - Mix blatantly removing an artist's signature off of her artwork and then using it, and giving no credit.
::*http://jilduck.livejournal.com/88040.html - Another person referencing Mix's 'no signature' policy, and his over-zealous reactions when art for him is signed.
::*http://banrai.livejournal.com/796407.html - Sadly, this is my account as it relates to Mix. I endured several months of harassment online, as well as unwanted telephone harassment from Mix. Even now he continues to harass me, such as the edits to my wiki page to 'get back at me' as was cited by Ken Redtail.
::*http://community.livejournal.com/drama_awesome/103564.html - Mix, living rent free and causing problems for his housemates.
::*http://community.livejournal.com/drama_awesome/103564.html?thread=2645388#t2645388 - Comment thread from the above link, where Mix uses the 'assburgers' excuse to justify all of his behavior.
::*http://community.livejournal.com/stupid_free/55076.html - Mix had some merchandise taken and apparently calls for an e-lynching, or.. something. Not sure what's going on here.
::*http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/109084.html - Mix evading ban on [[FurBid]] to bid / harass an artist.
::*http://ayukawataur.livejournal.com/44511.html - Mix arguing with Furbid administrator over lying to her and account abouse
::*http://community.livejournal.com/fursecution/100208.html - Mix banned from park / ballgame for inappropriate behavior.

::Anyway, there you go, Dmuth. Enjoy, and hopefully there's something helpful in there to help shape this article in a direction that will be more informative to others, as well as to help keep others from being taken advantage of in the future. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/13/07) 21.07 (UTC)

== Dealing with the Mix conroversy. ==

I just thought of an idea. How about we allow Mix to retain some control over the content of this page, but allow others to clean it up and make it look nicer, and require him to have a single link to an off-wiki page that explains the point of view of those who dislike him, such as Banrai, and allow him to maintain a single link to an off-wiki page that explains his own point of view and his friends' POVs, with a disclaimer that said off-wiki pages are not NPOV.

This will ensure not only that his page is not filled with drama but that both sides of the issue are heard in a way.
:Sounds a suspiciously lot like *gasp* a wiki?! Imagine that. A public page allows others to clean it up and make it look nicer as well as contributing new information or background information as long as it is in good faith. Mix still has some control because he can edit too. Just like everyone has some control over their own pages. But in essence, it's a community effort. Those external links would easily fit into references. However, I don't know about the whole well, this is his POV, this is their POV. What belongs here is a neutral point of view. I think it's pretty easy to look at the two sides and figure out what REALLY happened. And from that conclusion, then you write what happened. If you can't come to a conclusion, just report the exact concrete infallible facts. Who, what, when, where should not change between different sides of stories, only the how and why. Going off that, you can easily reference out to LJs, FA journals, whatever. It's pretty much assumed anyways that said journals would be reasonably biased.
::Well, most of the things Mix tells me are in fact different hows and whys, and those seem to be things that are most often disputed. For example, in that whole Mix calling Banrai issue, Banrai claims that the calls were not warranted and that Mix was harassing her, whereas Mix claims that Banrai wrote in her LJ that she was feeling really bad and wanted someone to call her, so he did. Furthermore, I don't think that people's LJs and IM logs qualify as hard evidence, since the content, amongst other things such as dates, can be changed retroactively. I've even seen some cases where someone edits other peoples comments simply because it was made to their LiveJournal. So most of it is hearsay just as if someone witnessed something being done IRL but didn't capture audio/video footage. [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Mix (person)

2007-07-26T04:40:56Z

Starblade: Dealing with the Mix conroversy.

Talk:Gayfaggotinc

2007-07-20T21:18:28Z

Starblade: For some reason there's a spam filter getting in the way.

Hey guys, how's it going? -Jack Bauer

For the last time, Gayfaggotinc isn't at all related to COTI or VCL Horrors, you morons. I'm changing this shit AGAIN and don't change it back.

(Oh, and Foxbourne isn't a member. We hate Foxbourne.)

Hey Spirou could you please quit fucking up our page? -Concerned Gayfaggot

Stay the fuck out of our page, Spiro Agnew. -Gayfaggot in Arms

Why was my membership entry removed? I'm definitely a part of this group... -Jack Bauer

Um, Jill is actually a member of GFI. She's in the channel right now. I'm talking to her. -Hung Wei Lo

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=team_coti Check out the usernames of the people that belong to this community! You won't find a single GFI member in there. Is that proof enough that we're not related? Update: I've gone into the COTI chatroom itself and asked them about the whole thing. They've never even heard of us.

== Valid information welcome ==

Any additional, and relevant, information to this or any article on Wikifur is welcome. Although open to anybody, no article, except personal ones, are the sole property of one person or group. Thanks for your understanding. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:13, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:This is basically a personal article, since it was my community. Please stop reverting it, and if you do, at least IM me on AIM at JoshuaWoulf so you can discuss the changes you want to make to it.
[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

::That's like saying [[WikiFur]] is a personal article since it was founded by me. A community grows beyond its founder. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, every single person who has been involved in Gayfaggotinc has requested that it's been deleted. Is that such a bad thing? --[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

== Aotommo ==

I removed the "SALADTONGS YOUR MY BEST FRIEND :o)" LJ entry not because it is not true, or that community is in the same vein as Gayfaggotinc, or may have some of the members of the original one. The removal had to do more that it needs to relate to "Gayfaggotinc" in name more, has the other two are, because if it were based on the "reason" or "purpose" of "Gayfaggotinc" original LJ, we would be adding new LJs all day long. Hope this explains the removal. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:33, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Anonymous comment ==

HEY SPIROU

WE ACTUALLY ADDED PERTINENT INFORMATION THAT WAS TRUE ABOUT GFI

DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH BEFORE REVERTING BACK TO THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE!

How the hell do you expect wikifur to expand when you report everything as "vandalism"?

--[[User:66.122.238.114|66.122.238.114]] 03:52, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Rephrased the "Relation" of the services. ==

Clarified what relates all three to each other. Hope this helps. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:53, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:Additional rephrasing has been added to bring up 66.122.238.114's point that all three services are not related to each other, except for the "Furry" angle. Please do inform us if this rewrite is satisfactory. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:06, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::''Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)''

::Spirou, if you're going to acknowledge that there's no connection between these groups, why would you even bother to introduce the three of them and point out (your own percieved) similarities in the opening sentence of the article? That you, personally, mentally classify them all under the same "anti-furry" banner is fine, but it looks an awful lot to me like you're trying to make sure that other people who read this article make this association immediately. That's not NPOV, that's just spin. Wikifur readers are smart, they can draw their own conclusions about the subjects of the articles without anyone else telling them what or how to think. Let each article stand on its own. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 01:39, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::The intention is obviously to imply that there '''is''' a connection in terms of theme (anti-furry activity) rather than actual groups of people. I don't see the problem with doing this in this way ''if it is true'' - after all, linking related articles about related topics is a useful thing. It would be best to have some objective evidence (for or against) regarding this assertion, though. I appreciate that as the founder of the group, you have knowledge, but you are also going to be held to a higher standard of "proof" - it's like me editing the [http://www. e n c y c l o p e d i a d r a m a t i c a .com/index.php/WikiFur WikiFur article] (Edited to avoid spamfilter) on [[Encyclopædia Dramatica]] (which I've done, but I'm sure people question the impartiality of my edits :-). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:41, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::''"As you yourself have noticed, and wrote in your edit, there are people who DO consider COTI to be "furry-hostile" and/or "anti-furry," caused by the actions of certain "individuals" within it who are furry themselves,... It's these reasons alone (The "Furry" presence, and their fandom hostility) that COTI is recorded in Wikifur, under the "Anti-Furry" category."'' (Posted on COTI's "discussion" page.) ...The same can said for "Gayfaggotinc," and most definitely "VCL Horrors," and that's why they are "related" when it solely involves the "Anti-furry" "angle." [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:35, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

==Huh?==

"Around February 2006, Ashi Moto had effectively shutdown the IRC channel, by taking over, and banning all access to it. A message instructed all users to access the #saladtongues IRC channel instead." I'd like to know when and how I did this, seeing as I don't recall ever having enough power on #GFI to do such a thing. Also, the name is saladtongs, not saladtongues. Spirou, please stop putting obvious lies into this article. --ashi_moto

== Can this be clarified? ==

<code>Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)</code>

How are three things that are COMPLETELY unrelated counterparts to each other? Can this be changed to something like:

<code>GayFaggotInc is another LJ community based on an channel in IRC which, like COTI's AIM and VCL Horror's LJ, has as one of its purposes mocking, ridiculing, or even trolling some part of the furry fandom at large. Beyond this they are completely and utterly unrelated.</code>

Maybe not exactly, but you get the picture.

As another thing, I believe that the "See Also" links to COTI and VCL Horrors is unnecessary, and perhaps even absurd. Can this please be taken off?

= Saladtongs =

Does channel information about #saladtongs go here or does it go on its own page? I tried making a page about it a couple of times but apparantly somebody got butthurt over the fact that such a page exists for God only knows what reason. I think that we should do something to prevent that page from being completely deleted, or at least show who's doing it. --[[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 21:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Gayfaggotinc

2007-07-20T21:14:34Z

Starblade:

Hey guys, how's it going? -Jack Bauer

For the last time, Gayfaggotinc isn't at all related to COTI or VCL Horrors, you morons. I'm changing this shit AGAIN and don't change it back.

(Oh, and Foxbourne isn't a member. We hate Foxbourne.)

Hey Spirou could you please quit fucking up our page? -Concerned Gayfaggot

Stay the fuck out of our page, Spiro Agnew. -Gayfaggot in Arms

Why was my membership entry removed? I'm definitely a part of this group... -Jack Bauer

Um, Jill is actually a member of GFI. She's in the channel right now. I'm talking to her. -Hung Wei Lo

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=team_coti Check out the usernames of the people that belong to this community! You won't find a single GFI member in there. Is that proof enough that we're not related? Update: I've gone into the COTI chatroom itself and asked them about the whole thing. They've never even heard of us.

== Valid information welcome ==

Any additional, and relevant, information to this or any article on Wikifur is welcome. Although open to anybody, no article, except personal ones, are the sole property of one person or group. Thanks for your understanding. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:13, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:This is basically a personal article, since it was my community. Please stop reverting it, and if you do, at least IM me on AIM at JoshuaWoulf so you can discuss the changes you want to make to it.
[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

::That's like saying [[WikiFur]] is a personal article since it was founded by me. A community grows beyond its founder. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, every single person who has been involved in Gayfaggotinc has requested that it's been deleted. Is that such a bad thing? --[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

== Aotommo ==

I removed the "SALADTONGS YOUR MY BEST FRIEND :o)" LJ entry not because it is not true, or that community is in the same vein as Gayfaggotinc, or may have some of the members of the original one. The removal had to do more that it needs to relate to "Gayfaggotinc" in name more, has the other two are, because if it were based on the "reason" or "purpose" of "Gayfaggotinc" original LJ, we would be adding new LJs all day long. Hope this explains the removal. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:33, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Anonymous comment ==

HEY SPIROU

WE ACTUALLY ADDED PERTINENT INFORMATION THAT WAS TRUE ABOUT GFI

DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH BEFORE REVERTING BACK TO THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE!

How the hell do you expect wikifur to expand when you report everything as "vandalism"?

--[[User:66.122.238.114|66.122.238.114]] 03:52, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Rephrased the "Relation" of the services. ==

Clarified what relates all three to each other. Hope this helps. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:53, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:Additional rephrasing has been added to bring up 66.122.238.114's point that all three services are not related to each other, except for the "Furry" angle. Please do inform us if this rewrite is satisfactory. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:06, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::''Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)''

::Spirou, if you're going to acknowledge that there's no connection between these groups, why would you even bother to introduce the three of them and point out (your own percieved) similarities in the opening sentence of the article? That you, personally, mentally classify them all under the same "anti-furry" banner is fine, but it looks an awful lot to me like you're trying to make sure that other people who read this article make this association immediately. That's not NPOV, that's just spin. Wikifur readers are smart, they can draw their own conclusions about the subjects of the articles without anyone else telling them what or how to think. Let each article stand on its own. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 01:39, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::The intention is obviously to imply that there '''is''' a connection in terms of theme (anti-furry activity) rather than actual groups of people. I don't see the problem with doing this in this way ''if it is true'' - after all, linking related articles about related topics is a useful thing. It would be best to have some objective evidence (for or against) regarding this assertion, though. I appreciate that as the founder of the group, you have knowledge, but you are also going to be held to a higher standard of "proof" - it's like me editing the [http://www.e n c y c l o p e d i a d r a m a t i c a.com/index.php/WikiFur WikiFur article] on [[Encyclopædia Dramatica]] (which I've done, but I'm sure people question the impartiality of my edits :-). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:41, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::''"As you yourself have noticed, and wrote in your edit, there are people who DO consider COTI to be "furry-hostile" and/or "anti-furry," caused by the actions of certain "individuals" within it who are furry themselves,... It's these reasons alone (The "Furry" presence, and their fandom hostility) that COTI is recorded in Wikifur, under the "Anti-Furry" category."'' (Posted on COTI's "discussion" page.) ...The same can said for "Gayfaggotinc," and most definitely "VCL Horrors," and that's why they are "related" when it solely involves the "Anti-furry" "angle." [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:35, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

==Huh?==

"Around February 2006, Ashi Moto had effectively shutdown the IRC channel, by taking over, and banning all access to it. A message instructed all users to access the #saladtongues IRC channel instead." I'd like to know when and how I did this, seeing as I don't recall ever having enough power on #GFI to do such a thing. Also, the name is saladtongs, not saladtongues. Spirou, please stop putting obvious lies into this article. --ashi_moto

== Can this be clarified? ==

<code>Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)</code>

How are three things that are COMPLETELY unrelated counterparts to each other? Can this be changed to something like:

<code>GayFaggotInc is another LJ community based on an channel in IRC which, like COTI's AIM and VCL Horror's LJ, has as one of its purposes mocking, ridiculing, or even trolling some part of the furry fandom at large. Beyond this they are completely and utterly unrelated.</code>

Maybe not exactly, but you get the picture.

As another thing, I believe that the "See Also" links to COTI and VCL Horrors is unnecessary, and perhaps even absurd. Can this please be taken off?

= Saladtongs =

Does channel information about #saladtongs go here or does it go on its own page? I tried making a page about it a couple of times but apparantly somebody got butthurt over the fact that such a page exists for God only knows what reason. I think that we should do something to prevent that page from being completely deleted, or at least show who's doing it. --[[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 21:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Saladtongs

2007-07-20T20:24:23Z

Starblade: Rather than deleting this page if you don't like what's written, why don't you just edit it?

Saladtongs is the successor channel to GayFaggotInc. More to come later.

Gayfaggotinc

2007-07-20T06:22:49Z

Starblade: <3 saladtongs. Yes, I'm a masochist.

'''Gayfaggotinc''' ([[JoshuaWoulf]], creator. [[Kasai]] and [[Auddwaggin]], cofounders) is to [[IRC]] what [[COTI]] is to [[Wikipedia:AOL_Instant_Messenger|AIM]], and [[VCL Horrors]] is to [[LiveJournal]], and they all show a unique similarity, particularly where and when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the [[furry fandom]] at large. Despite being similar in purpose, they are completely independent entities.

== History ==

Initially a LiveJournal community (Fall 2004 to July 2005,) it was recreated on the Anthrochat [[IRC]] network after the LJ community was deleted by Joshua Woulf himself, and its presently under the loving care of the [[Wikipedia:Zombie|zombie]] grey [[dragon]], Auddwaggin. Its composition, people wise, consists of a mix of [[furs]], [[nonfurs]] and [[anti-furries]], and they best describe themselves as thus:

{{q|For the most part, we are an awesome ANYTHING GOES community. Most of all(, we) just have fun, do stupid shit (the good kind) and remember that it's okay to be a gay faggot, but not a jerk. >:3 WE'RE AWFULLER THAN SOMETHING.'' - Unknown}}

== Beyond Gayfaggotinc ==

By November 2005, several Livejournals have on taken the title of the new "incarnation" (or "version 2.0") of the LJ form of '''Gayfaggotinc''':
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfaggotincv2/ '''Gayfaggotincv2'''], created and maintained by [[Fairly Lush]] and JoshuaWoulf.
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfaggotinc2/ '''Gayfaggotinc2'''], created and maintained by [[Ashi Moto]] and [[Unsuspended]]. (suspended)
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfaggotinc3/ '''Gayfaggotinc3'''], created and maintained by Ashi Moto, [[Wurby]], and [[E Richard]].
* [http://community.livejournal.com/faygaggotinc/ '''Faygaggotinc'''], created and maintained by [[Fuzzy Ninja]], [[Michichu]] and [[Pixystick Ninja]]. (suspended)
* [http://community.livejournal.com/faygaggotinc2/ '''Faygaggotinc2'''], created and maintained by Ashi Moto and Wurby.

Around February 2006, [[Aotommo]] had effectively shutdown the IRC channel, by taking over, and banning all access to it. A message instructed all users to access the #[[saladtongs]] IRC channel instead.

==Past and Present Members==
{| width="100%"
|- valign="top"
||
*JoshuaWoulf
*Auddwaggin
*Ashi Moto
*Kasai
*Aotommo
*[[User:Skunk|Skunk]]
*[[Elementseven]]
||
*[[Sibe]]
*[[Pico]]
*[[Corrosive]]
*[[Fairly Lush]]
*[[Jill0r]]
*[[Vitae]]
*[[noitaroproc]]
||
*[[Necco]]
*[[Verix]]
*[[Bobby]]
*[[Raemuz]]
*[[Flarn]]
*[[Simba]]
*[[Mirage]]
||
*[[nothingkat]]
*[[Reddie]]
*[[Tiltwolfe]]
*[[Geemo]]
*[[Shanerak]]
*[[scottem]]
*[[Reagan Lodge]]
||
*[[N8]]
*[[Pence]]
*[[E Richard]]
*[[GoldenZoltan]]
|}

==See Also==
*[[COTI]]
*[[VCL_Horrors]]
*[[Anthrochat]]

==External Links==

*[http://gogloom.com/Anthrochat/gayfaggotinc/ IRC stats for '''Gayfaggotinc''']

[[Category:Anti-furries]][[Category:Chat rooms]]

Saladtongs

2007-07-20T06:18:32Z

Starblade: Yay for cliquish subdivisions!

The philosophy of #saladtongs: "Elite people only. Everyone the elite deems retarded stay on your side of the pool."

Banrai

2007-06-25T01:23:57Z

Starblade: You cannot proove that this is fact to my face and the face of every other wikifur user. Both sides of the story should be heard. Where is YOUR evidence? On your ever changing LiveJournal entries?

Talk:Banrai

2007-06-25T01:15:58Z

Starblade: Banrai, you are the dramawhore, not me. Please stop putting lies into your article.

{{featured}}
----
==Archives==
I waited a few days to do this incase anyone else wanted to get some replies in, and since there were none I decided it was safe to continue and archive a copy of the previous talk page, to remove the needless drama and fussing.

[[Talk:Banrai/Archive1]] -- Archive from Sep 2005 to Apr 2006.

== Controversy ==
I reverted Banrai's deletion of Mix's information because, well, there's a controversy section already and it occured, so it's factual, not vandalism. This isn't much different from the [[Kacey Miyagami]] issue, it seems. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 16:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:Considering that Mix has stalked and harassed me for over a year now, as well as that he has flat out admitted that he is making these edits as a form of 'blackmail' against me, I think it therefor does constitute as vandalisim. Mix's pitiful jab at me is one sided, at best. --[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 17:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
::Mix messaged me earlier this morning and basically confirmed this. All this information was added because Banrai wouldn't let him join one of her LJ comms. He told me that as long as she barred him entry, the information would stay there and when she allowed him entry, he'd retract the information. It's clear then that he's making "personal attacks". Being that some of this IS factual though, I believe the best course is to pare as much of this down to ACTUAL fact and throw the rest to the dogs.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

== Conflicting stories. ==

You know, if Banrai cannot prove that she drew several pictures of Mix, then why include that in the article? Why not just say "Banrai allegedly drew several drawings of Mix, while Mix currently claims that she only drew one"? Has anybody ever seen the pictures and verified that Mix received them? Not that I believe Mix's side of the story without any reservations, but Banrai has lied before just as Mix has lied before, so why either of them should be trustworthy enough to put their side of the story as if it were correct and not simply a side to the story baffles me.

There does also appear to be a drama Banrai created reguarding Ridayah. Ridayah is a genuinely kind soul and has been slandered and libeled by Banrai. She claims that he intended to 'texturbate' her but I know he had no intention of doing this. I know that for a fact. Could someone, preferably Ridayah himself, or one of his close friends, be allowed to add that to the Controversy section?

Thanks! - [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 23:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

:As for Mix's 'side' of the story, if he feels it necessary he can add it to his own page, which diserves a controversy section ihmo.

:As for Ridayah, why would I want to write something about every bad commissioner I've had in my article? You seem to be a good friend of the aforementioned, so I'm sure you'll remember the journal entry he posted where he apoligized to me for all the promiscuous things he said to me, etc. How that is controversy, I do not know. Yes, I reported him to artists beware. And, if you'll also remember several people were glad because no artist deserves to be spoken to like that by a client. It remains one of the worst business transactions I have ever had, and I am glad I chose to refund his money and report the situation in the appropriate place. However, that place is not here. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/06/07) 23.38 (UTC)
::I don't think it's necessary for everyone to air their grievances out in vivid detail. We are not Encylopedia Dramatica.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 07:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Agreed. If everyone wanted to add every little gripe and snark to everyone else's article, this place would turn into drama central in about three seconds flat. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/07/07) 12.04 (UTC)

That is precicely why we write such dramas in NPOV, because we don't want drama. I have edited the section about Mix to reflect the fact that this drama is unresolved and there is no evidence to rule out either POV. [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

:The only drama I am seeing here is that which you are attempting to stir. You edited factual statements that have been proven and recorded to sling doubt onto the situation, those have been reverted. Make sure you know the _facts_ before you edit an article. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/07/07) 12.04 (UTC)

They are not FACTS. You have yet to offer real proof of these statements. If they were facts you should be able to put that proof on this wiki.

== Cruise/FWA ==

Is there any point to the slandering of junkupshowup or is it just to fill up space with drama? It seems like the drama about Banrai's identity theft past is extremely down played where the supposed drama about junkupshowup is very one-sided. {{unsigned|71.170.60.48}}

:I agree, if you're going to include drama including banrai, include it all equally. Don't try to make her look like an innocent victim. This is what happens when people are the main editor of their own pages, you get biased pages.--[[User:24.0.21.164|24.0.21.164]] 16:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

::All information was previously confirmed by others that witnessed it. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/23/07) 16.53 (UTC)

(Edited out my post. I made a mistake; sorry my brain had too much data to take in and I thought you were referring to someone else.) [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Starblade

2007-06-24T05:49:26Z

Starblade: Getting this page started.

Starblade is stubborn, obsessive, and obnoxious and is often impulsive and gets upset over stupid things. However, underneath it all sie has a heart of gold and nerves of steel. Being dedicated to being fair to all parties is hir greatest gift and greatest curse, simultaneously.

Talk:Banrai

2007-06-24T05:46:53Z

Starblade: /* Conflicting stories. */

{{featured}}
----
==Archives==
I waited a few days to do this incase anyone else wanted to get some replies in, and since there were none I decided it was safe to continue and archive a copy of the previous talk page, to remove the needless drama and fussing.

[[Talk:Banrai/Archive1]] -- Archive from Sep 2005 to Apr 2006.

== Controversy ==
I reverted Banrai's deletion of Mix's information because, well, there's a controversy section already and it occured, so it's factual, not vandalism. This isn't much different from the [[Kacey Miyagami]] issue, it seems. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 16:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:Considering that Mix has stalked and harassed me for over a year now, as well as that he has flat out admitted that he is making these edits as a form of 'blackmail' against me, I think it therefor does constitute as vandalisim. Mix's pitiful jab at me is one sided, at best. --[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 17:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
::Mix messaged me earlier this morning and basically confirmed this. All this information was added because Banrai wouldn't let him join one of her LJ comms. He told me that as long as she barred him entry, the information would stay there and when she allowed him entry, he'd retract the information. It's clear then that he's making "personal attacks". Being that some of this IS factual though, I believe the best course is to pare as much of this down to ACTUAL fact and throw the rest to the dogs.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

== Conflicting stories. ==

You know, if Banrai cannot prove that she drew several pictures of Mix, then why include that in the article? Why not just say "Banrai allegedly drew several drawings of Mix, while Mix currently claims that she only drew one"? Has anybody ever seen the pictures and verified that Mix received them? Not that I believe Mix's side of the story without any reservations, but Banrai has lied before just as Mix has lied before, so why either of them should be trustworthy enough to put their side of the story as if it were correct and not simply a side to the story baffles me.

There does also appear to be a drama Banrai created reguarding Ridayah. Ridayah is a genuinely kind soul and has been slandered and libeled by Banrai. She claims that he intended to 'texturbate' her but I know he had no intention of doing this. I know that for a fact. Could someone, preferably Ridayah himself, or one of his close friends, be allowed to add that to the Controversy section?

Thanks! - [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 23:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

:As for Mix's 'side' of the story, if he feels it necessary he can add it to his own page, which diserves a controversy section ihmo.

:As for Ridayah, why would I want to write something about every bad commissioner I've had in my article? You seem to be a good friend of the aforementioned, so I'm sure you'll remember the journal entry he posted where he apoligized to me for all the promiscuous things he said to me, etc. How that is controversy, I do not know. Yes, I reported him to artists beware. And, if you'll also remember several people were glad because no artist deserves to be spoken to like that by a client. It remains one of the worst business transactions I have ever had, and I am glad I chose to refund his money and report the situation in the appropriate place. However, that place is not here. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/06/07) 23.38 (UTC)
::I don't think it's necessary for everyone to air their grievances out in vivid detail. We are not Encylopedia Dramatica.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 07:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Agreed. If everyone wanted to add every little gripe and snark to everyone else's article, this place would turn into drama central in about three seconds flat. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/07/07) 12.04 (UTC)

That is precicely why we write such dramas in NPOV, because we don't want drama. I have edited the section about Mix to reflect the fact that this drama is unresolved and there is no evidence to rule out either POV. [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

== Cruise/FWA ==

Is there any point to the slandering of junkupshowup or is it just to fill up space with drama? It seems like the drama about Banrai's identity theft past is extremely down played where the supposed drama about junkupshowup is very one-sided. {{unsigned|71.170.60.48}}

:I agree, if you're going to include drama including banrai, include it all equally. Don't try to make her look like an innocent victim. This is what happens when people are the main editor of their own pages, you get biased pages.--[[User:24.0.21.164|24.0.21.164]] 16:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

::All information was previously confirmed by others that witnessed it. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/23/07) 16.53 (UTC)

(Edited out my post. I made a mistake; sorry my brain had too much data to take in and I thought you were referring to someone else.) [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Banrai

2007-06-24T05:45:20Z

Starblade: /* Cruise/FWA */

{{featured}}
----
==Archives==
I waited a few days to do this incase anyone else wanted to get some replies in, and since there were none I decided it was safe to continue and archive a copy of the previous talk page, to remove the needless drama and fussing.

[[Talk:Banrai/Archive1]] -- Archive from Sep 2005 to Apr 2006.

== Controversy ==
I reverted Banrai's deletion of Mix's information because, well, there's a controversy section already and it occured, so it's factual, not vandalism. This isn't much different from the [[Kacey Miyagami]] issue, it seems. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 16:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:Considering that Mix has stalked and harassed me for over a year now, as well as that he has flat out admitted that he is making these edits as a form of 'blackmail' against me, I think it therefor does constitute as vandalisim. Mix's pitiful jab at me is one sided, at best. --[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 17:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
::Mix messaged me earlier this morning and basically confirmed this. All this information was added because Banrai wouldn't let him join one of her LJ comms. He told me that as long as she barred him entry, the information would stay there and when she allowed him entry, he'd retract the information. It's clear then that he's making "personal attacks". Being that some of this IS factual though, I believe the best course is to pare as much of this down to ACTUAL fact and throw the rest to the dogs.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

== Conflicting stories. ==

You know, if Banrai cannot prove that she drew several pictures of Mix, then why include that in the article? Why not just say "Banrai allegedly drew several drawings of Mix, while Mix currently claims that she only drew one"? Has anybody ever seen the pictures and verified that Mix received them? Not that I believe Mix's side of the story without any reservations, but Banrai has lied before just as Mix has lied before, so why either of them should be trustworthy enough to put their side of the story as if it were correct and not simply a side to the story baffles me.

There does also appear to be a drama Banrai created reguarding Ridayah. Ridayah is a genuinely kind soul and has been slandered and libeled by Banrai. She claims that he intended to 'texturbate' her but I know he had no intention of doing this. I know that for a fact. Could someone, preferably Ridayah himself, or one of his close friends, be allowed to add that to the Controversy section?

Thanks! - [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 23:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

:As for Mix's 'side' of the story, if he feels it necessary he can add it to his own page, which diserves a controversy section ihmo.

:As for Ridayah, why would I want to write something about every bad commissioner I've had in my article? You seem to be a good friend of the aforementioned, so I'm sure you'll remember the journal entry he posted where he apoligized to me for all the promiscuous things he said to me, etc. How that is controversy, I do not know. Yes, I reported him to artists beware. And, if you'll also remember several people were glad because no artist deserves to be spoken to like that by a client. It remains one of the worst business transactions I have ever had, and I am glad I chose to refund his money and report the situation in the appropriate place. However, that place is not here. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/06/07) 23.38 (UTC)
::I don't think it's necessary for everyone to air their grievances out in vivid detail. We are not Encylopedia Dramatica.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 07:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Agreed. If everyone wanted to add every little gripe and snark to everyone else's article, this place would turn into drama central in about three seconds flat. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/07/07) 12.04 (UTC)

== Cruise/FWA ==

Is there any point to the slandering of junkupshowup or is it just to fill up space with drama? It seems like the drama about Banrai's identity theft past is extremely down played where the supposed drama about junkupshowup is very one-sided. {{unsigned|71.170.60.48}}

:I agree, if you're going to include drama including banrai, include it all equally. Don't try to make her look like an innocent victim. This is what happens when people are the main editor of their own pages, you get biased pages.--[[User:24.0.21.164|24.0.21.164]] 16:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

::All information was previously confirmed by others that witnessed it. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/23/07) 16.53 (UTC)

(Edited out my post. I made a mistake; sorry my brain had too much data to take in and I thought you were referring to someone else.) [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Banrai

2007-06-24T05:42:30Z

Starblade: Making some part of this article NPOV, just as the wiki terms of service state should be used.

Talk:Banrai

2007-06-24T05:27:43Z

Starblade:

{{featured}}
----
==Archives==
I waited a few days to do this incase anyone else wanted to get some replies in, and since there were none I decided it was safe to continue and archive a copy of the previous talk page, to remove the needless drama and fussing.

[[Talk:Banrai/Archive1]] -- Archive from Sep 2005 to Apr 2006.

== Controversy ==
I reverted Banrai's deletion of Mix's information because, well, there's a controversy section already and it occured, so it's factual, not vandalism. This isn't much different from the [[Kacey Miyagami]] issue, it seems. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 16:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:Considering that Mix has stalked and harassed me for over a year now, as well as that he has flat out admitted that he is making these edits as a form of 'blackmail' against me, I think it therefor does constitute as vandalisim. Mix's pitiful jab at me is one sided, at best. --[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 17:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
::Mix messaged me earlier this morning and basically confirmed this. All this information was added because Banrai wouldn't let him join one of her LJ comms. He told me that as long as she barred him entry, the information would stay there and when she allowed him entry, he'd retract the information. It's clear then that he's making "personal attacks". Being that some of this IS factual though, I believe the best course is to pare as much of this down to ACTUAL fact and throw the rest to the dogs.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

== Conflicting stories. ==

You know, if Banrai cannot prove that she drew several pictures of Mix, then why include that in the article? Why not just say "Banrai allegedly drew several drawings of Mix, while Mix currently claims that she only drew one"? Has anybody ever seen the pictures and verified that Mix received them? Not that I believe Mix's side of the story without any reservations, but Banrai has lied before just as Mix has lied before, so why either of them should be trustworthy enough to put their side of the story as if it were correct and not simply a side to the story baffles me.

There does also appear to be a drama Banrai created reguarding Ridayah. Ridayah is a genuinely kind soul and has been slandered and libeled by Banrai. She claims that he intended to 'texturbate' her but I know he had no intention of doing this. I know that for a fact. Could someone, preferably Ridayah himself, or one of his close friends, be allowed to add that to the Controversy section?

Thanks! - [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 23:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

:As for Mix's 'side' of the story, if he feels it necessary he can add it to his own page, which diserves a controversy section ihmo.

:As for Ridayah, why would I want to write something about every bad commissioner I've had in my article? You seem to be a good friend of the aforementioned, so I'm sure you'll remember the journal entry he posted where he apoligized to me for all the promiscuous things he said to me, etc. How that is controversy, I do not know. Yes, I reported him to artists beware. And, if you'll also remember several people were glad because no artist deserves to be spoken to like that by a client. It remains one of the worst business transactions I have ever had, and I am glad I chose to refund his money and report the situation in the appropriate place. However, that place is not here. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/06/07) 23.38 (UTC)
::I don't think it's necessary for everyone to air their grievances out in vivid detail. We are not Encylopedia Dramatica.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 07:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Agreed. If everyone wanted to add every little gripe and snark to everyone else's article, this place would turn into drama central in about three seconds flat. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/07/07) 12.04 (UTC)

== Cruise/FWA ==

Is there any point to the slandering of junkupshowup or is it just to fill up space with drama? It seems like the drama about Banrai's identity theft past is extremely down played where the supposed drama about junkupshowup is very one-sided. {{unsigned|71.170.60.48}}

:I agree, if you're going to include drama including banrai, include it all equally. Don't try to make her look like an innocent victim. This is what happens when people are the main editor of their own pages, you get biased pages.--[[User:24.0.21.164|24.0.21.164]] 16:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

::All information was previously confirmed by others that witnessed it. --'''[[Banrai|Banrai]]''' | [[User_talk:Banrai|talk]] (06/23/07) 16.53 (UTC)

That's not true. Banrai, you only drew one pic of Mix. Unless you have '''hard''' evidence, not just of the pics you drew but of you ''showing'' them to Mix, you shouldn't try to muzzle the opposing side. I am going to change all your claims to NPOV so that nobody gets the wrong idea about the drama between you and Mix. [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 05:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Banrai

2007-06-06T23:03:59Z

Starblade: Conflicting stories.

Talk:Astolpho

2007-05-06T03:36:34Z

Starblade:

{{featured}}

==Tone==
I'm a bit concerned with tone in a few places. For example, "Astolpho had up until that point made a point of being courteous and polite to everyone he interacted with". This is a judgement, and should be attributed IMHO. For example, "Astolpho asserts that he had...". It's hard to write about oneself, no? The only actual change I'm making to the article is in the phrase "unanimous approval", although I'll reconsider if the author can show it (the artist's new style) was put to a yes/no vote, with no dissenters. Even then it would have to note the scope, i.e. "...unanimous approval among such-and-such group". But good article overall! --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 23:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Yeah. From writing another Wiki article about who I am, I can say it is pretty damn hard to maintain a Neutral Point Of View. I now see that writing an article specifically about one's SELF is just rediculous. Obviously, a person's view of himself cannot reflect the general view of the public. (Where's the part that says Astolpho is an elitist, arrogant jerk?) What he might deem important or noteworthy might be trivial or insignificant with respect to the furry fandom. But I won't make a big deal about that--However, I do have one thing I really need to say. Astolpho, just because you know yourself better than anyone else knows you does NOT give you the right to make opinionated remarks in your little autobiography here. Among other little things in this article, I'm referring to you calling babyfurs "horrifying."
::First of all, if you're going to call me an elitist, arrogant jerk (which I will ''absolutely'' cop to, feel free to edit it in wherever you feel is appropriate and please remember to log in this time when you do it, otherwise I'll remove it), at least have the cojones to leave a name, otherwise your criticism is is completely without credibility. I'm going to assume that you're Skippyfox, though, because you sound like him, and you share his abysmally poor reading comprehension skills: ''nowhere'' in the article did I say or imply that babyfurs were horrifying. I said that the Astolpho alter-ego and the associated artwork was a horrifying secret - which, in relation to the circle of friends being made reference to, it is. Or was. Whatever. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 05:31, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Children, please. Leave the drama on [[Livejournal]]. ;) --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:20, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I'm not one for editing other people's talk pages, but typically, if someone doesn't sign something, then I just delete it without answering it on mine. Might be a good idea for you to do that too, bellcat.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:26, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I won't add this to the article, but has anybody else noticed his abdication of Pride's necessary component to look for values in all places. This would imply a willingness to acquire values from all sources, which includes forgiving those who have perviously erred and have corrected said err. This brings us to his abdication of Justice's necessary component to look at a person as a whole when judging rather than looking at a few non-essential details? Also, in an act of complete self-contradiction, he earlier likened another person, who is now his friend, to me, and dissasociated contact with both of us, but now speaks with this friend but not me. This speaks of a lack of an objective method in assessing a person's characteristics. Perhaps in the article it should state "He is not a forgiving person, with an exception to those who show some uncomprehensible mix of characteristics that no rational person could ascertain without being personally told of his standards". Would this be appropriate? [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 03:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Astolpho

2007-05-06T03:35:57Z

Starblade: /* Tone */

{{featured}}

==Tone==
I'm a bit concerned with tone in a few places. For example, "Astolpho had up until that point made a point of being courteous and polite to everyone he interacted with". This is a judgement, and should be attributed IMHO. For example, "Astolpho asserts that he had...". It's hard to write about oneself, no? The only actual change I'm making to the article is in the phrase "unanimous approval", although I'll reconsider if the author can show it (the artist's new style) was put to a yes/no vote, with no dissenters. Even then it would have to note the scope, i.e. "...unanimous approval among such-and-such group". But good article overall! --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 23:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Yeah. From writing another Wiki article about who I am, I can say it is pretty damn hard to maintain a Neutral Point Of View. I now see that writing an article specifically about one's SELF is just rediculous. Obviously, a person's view of himself cannot reflect the general view of the public. (Where's the part that says Astolpho is an elitist, arrogant jerk?) What he might deem important or noteworthy might be trivial or insignificant with respect to the furry fandom. But I won't make a big deal about that--However, I do have one thing I really need to say. Astolpho, just because you know yourself better than anyone else knows you does NOT give you the right to make opinionated remarks in your little autobiography here. Among other little things in this article, I'm referring to you calling babyfurs "horrifying."
::First of all, if you're going to call me an elitist, arrogant jerk (which I will ''absolutely'' cop to, feel free to edit it in wherever you feel is appropriate and please remember to log in this time when you do it, otherwise I'll remove it), at least have the cojones to leave a name, otherwise your criticism is is completely without credibility. I'm going to assume that you're Skippyfox, though, because you sound like him, and you share his abysmally poor reading comprehension skills: ''nowhere'' in the article did I say or imply that babyfurs were horrifying. I said that the Astolpho alter-ego and the associated artwork was a horrifying secret - which, in relation to the circle of friends being made reference to, it is. Or was. Whatever. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 05:31, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Children, please. Leave the drama on [[Livejournal]]. ;) --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:20, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I'm not one for editing other people's talk pages, but typically, if someone doesn't sign something, then I just delete it without answering it on mine. Might be a good idea for you to do that too, bellcat.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:26, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I won't add this to the article, but has anybody else noticed his abdication of Pride's necessary component to look for values in all places. This would imply a willingness to acquire values from all sources, which includes forgiving those who have perviously erred and have corrected said err. This brings us to his abdication of Justice's necessary component to look at a person as a whole when judging rather than looking at a few non-essential details? Also, in an act of complete self-contradiction, he earlier likened another person, who is now his friend, to me, and dissasociated contact with both of us, but now speaks with this friend but not me. This speaks of a lack of an objective method in assessing a person's characteristics. Perhaps in the article it should state "He is not a forgiving person, with an exception to those who show some uncomprehensible mix of characteristics that no rational person could ascertain without knowing his standards". Would this be appropriate? [[User:Starblade|Starblade]] 03:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Gayfaggotinc

2007-03-22T09:46:48Z

Starblade: Edited to better reflect the fact that, while similar in many ways, GayFaggotInc, COTI, and VCL Horrors are NOT RELATED. Spirou, please don't try to confuse our readers.

'''Gayfaggotinc''' ('''Joshua Woulf''', creator. '''Kasai''' and '''Auddwaggin''', co-founders) is to [[IRC]] what '''COTI''' is to [[Wikipedia:AOL_Instant_Messenger|AIM]] and '''VCL Horrors''' is to [[LiveJournal]], and they all show a unique similarity, particularly where and when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the [[furry fandom]] at large. Despite being similar in purpose they are completely independent entities.

Initially a LiveJournal community (Fall 2004 to July 2005), it was recreated on the Anthrochat [[IRC]] network after the LJ community was deleted by Joshua Woulf himself, and its presently under the loving care of the zombie grey [[dragon]], Auddwaggin.

Its composition, people wise, consists of a mix of [[furs]], [[nonfurs]] and [[anti-furries]], and they best describe themselves as thus:
''"For the most part, we are an awesome ANYTHING GOES community. Most of all(, we) just have fun, do stupid shit (the good kind) and remember that it's okay to be a gay faggot, but not a jerk. >:3 WE'RE AWFULLER THAN SOMETHING."''

By November 2005, several Livejournals have on taken the title of the new "incarnation" (or "version 2.0") of the LJ form of '''Gayfaggotinc''':
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfaggotincv2/ '''Gayfaggotincv2'''], created and maintained by [[Fairly Lush]] and [[JoshuaWoulf]].
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfaggotinc2/ '''Gayfaggotinc2'''], created and maintained by [[Ashi Moto]] and [[Unsuspended]]. (suspended)
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfaggotinc3/ '''Gayfaggotinc3'''], created and maintained by [[Ashi Moto]], [[Wurby]], and [[E Richard]].
* [http://community.livejournal.com/faygaggotinc/ '''Faygaggotinc'''], created and maintained by [[Fuzzy Ninja]], [[Michichu]] and [[Pixystick Ninja]]. (suspended)
* [http://community.livejournal.com/faygaggotinc2/ '''Faygaggotinc2'''], created and maintained by [[Ashi Moto]] and [[Wurby]].

Around February 2006, [[Aotommo]] had effectively shutdown the IRC channel, by taking over, and banning all access to it. A message instructed all users to access the #saladtongs IRC channel instead.

==Past and Present Members==
{| width="100%"
|- valign="top"
||
*[[JoshuaWoulf]]
*[[Necco]]
*[[Verix]]
*[[Reddie]]
*[[Tiltwolfe]]
*[[User:Skunk|Skunk]]
*[[Elementseven]]
||
*[[Sibe]]
*[[Pico]]
*[[Corrosive]]
*[[Fairly Lush]]
*[[Jill0r]]
*[[Vitae]]
*[[noitaroproc]]
||
*[[Auddwaggin]]
*[[Ashi Moto]]
*[[Bobby]]
*[[Raemuz]]
*[[Flarn]]
*[[Simba]]
*[[Mirage]]
||
*[[nothingkat]]
*[[Geemo]]
*[[Kasai]]
*[[Shanerak]]
*[[scottem]]
*[[Aotommo]]
*[[Reagan Lodge]]
||
*[[N8]]
*[[Pence]]
*[[E Richard]]
*[[GoldenZoltan]]
|}

==See Also==
*[[COTI]]
*[[VCL_Horrors]]
*[[Anthrochat]]

==External Links==

*[http://gogloom.com/Anthrochat/gayfaggotinc/ IRC stats for '''Gayfaggotinc''']

[[Category:Anti-furries]][[Category:Chat rooms]]

Talk:Dark tourism

2006-08-02T09:46:36Z

Starblade: I think I was wrong about the definition.

Maybe this should link to Wikipedia?

:Maybe, but where? [[Wikipedia:Atrocity tourism]] doesn't exist. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 15:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

== I think I was wrong about the definition. ==

I read it in someone's profile and I immediately assumed it meant Entertainment News, but after reading it used within the context of a personal post in [[Something Awful]] I actually got to looking it up. Here's what I found:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e%2Fn

I <3 urban dictionary!

Talk:Gayfaggotinc

2006-08-01T18:54:38Z

Starblade: Can this be clarified?

Hey guys, how's it going? -Jack Bauer

For the last time, Gayfaggotinc isn't at all related to COTI or VCL Horrors, you morons. I'm changing this shit AGAIN and don't change it back.

(Oh, and Foxbourne isn't a member. We hate Foxbourne.)

Hey Spirou could you please quit fucking up our page? -Concerned Gayfaggot

Stay the fuck out of our page, Spiro Agnew. -Gayfaggot in Arms

Why was my membership entry removed? I'm definitely a part of this group... -Jack Bauer

Um, Jill is actually a member of GFI. She's in the channel right now. I'm talking to her. -Hung Wei Lo

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=team_coti Check out the usernames of the people that belong to this community! You won't find a single GFI member in there. Is that proof enough that we're not related? Update: I've gone into the COTI chatroom itself and asked them about the whole thing. They've never even heard of us.

== Valid information welcome ==

Any additional, and relevant, information to this or any article on Wikifur is welcome. Although open to anybody, no article, except personal ones, are the sole property of one person or group. Thanks for your understanding. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:13, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:This is basically a personal article, since it was my community. Please stop reverting it, and if you do, at least IM me on AIM at JoshuaWoulf so you can discuss the changes you want to make to it.
[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

::That's like saying [[WikiFur]] is a personal article since it was founded by me. A community grows beyond its founder. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, every single person who has been involved in Gayfaggotinc has requested that it's been deleted. Is that such a bad thing? --[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

== Aotommo ==

I removed the "SALADTONGS YOUR MY BEST FRIEND :o)" LJ entry not because it is not true, or that community is in the same vein as Gayfaggotinc, or may have some of the members of the original one. The removal had to do more that it needs to relate to "Gayfaggotinc" in name more, has the other two are, because if it were based on the "reason" or "purpose" of "Gayfaggotinc" original LJ, we would be adding new LJs all day long. Hope this explains the removal. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:33, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Anonymous comment ==

HEY SPIROU

WE ACTUALLY ADDED PERTINENT INFORMATION THAT WAS TRUE ABOUT GFI

DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH BEFORE REVERTING BACK TO THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE!

How the hell do you expect wikifur to expand when you report everything as "vandalism"?

--[[User:66.122.238.114|66.122.238.114]] 03:52, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Rephrased the "Relation" of the services. ==

Clarified what relates all three to each other. Hope this helps. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:53, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:Additional rephrasing has been added to bring up 66.122.238.114's point that all three services are not related to each other, except for the "Furry" angle. Please do inform us if this rewrite is satisfactory. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:06, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::''Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)''

::Spirou, if you're going to acknowledge that there's no connection between these groups, why would you even bother to introduce the three of them and point out (your own percieved) similarities in the opening sentence of the article? That you, personally, mentally classify them all under the same "anti-furry" banner is fine, but it looks an awful lot to me like you're trying to make sure that other people who read this article make this association immediately. That's not NPOV, that's just spin. Wikifur readers are smart, they can draw their own conclusions about the subjects of the articles without anyone else telling them what or how to think. Let each article stand on its own. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 01:39, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::The intention is obviously to imply that there '''is''' a connection in terms of theme (anti-furry activity) rather than actual groups of people. I don't see the problem with doing this in this way ''if it is true'' - after all, linking related articles about related topics is a useful thing. It would be best to have some objective evidence (for or against) regarding this assertion, though. I appreciate that as the founder of the group, you have knowledge, but you are also going to be held to a higher standard of "proof" - it's like me editing the [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/WikiFur WikiFur article] on [[Encyclopædia Dramatica]] (which I've done, but I'm sure people question the impartiality of my edits :-). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:41, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::''"As you yourself have noticed, and wrote in your edit, there are people who DO consider COTI to be "furry-hostile" and/or "anti-furry," caused by the actions of certain "individuals" within it who are furry themselves,... It's these reasons alone (The "Furry" presence, and their fandom hostility) that COTI is recorded in Wikifur, under the "Anti-Furry" category."'' (Posted on COTI's "discussion" page.) ...The same can said for "Gayfaggotinc," and most definitely "VCL Horrors," and that's why they are "related" when it solely involves the "Anti-furry" "angle." [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:35, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

==Huh?==

"Around February 2006, Ashi Moto had effectively shutdown the IRC channel, by taking over, and banning all access to it. A message instructed all users to access the #saladtongues IRC channel instead." I'd like to know when and how I did this, seeing as I don't recall ever having enough power on #GFI to do such a thing. Also, the name is saladtongs, not saladtongues. Spirou, please stop putting obvious lies into this article. --ashi_moto

== Can this be clarified? ==

<code>Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)</code>

How are three things that are COMPLETELY unrelated counterparts to each other? Can this be changed to something like:

<code>GayFaggotInc is another LJ community based on an channel in IRC which, like COTI's AIM and VCL Horror's LJ, has as one of its purposes mocking, ridiculing, or even trolling some part of the furry fandom at large. Beyond this they are completely and utterly unrelated.</code>

Maybe not exactly, but you get the picture.

As another thing, I believe that the "See Also" links to COTI and VCL Horrors is unnecessary, and perhaps even absurd. Can this please be taken off?

E/n

2005-10-22T09:04:34Z

Starblade: Not being an expert on e/n, I respectfully abstain from saying much.

E/N culture is a broad collection of sites, such as [[Portal of Evil]] and [[Something Awful]]. Typical E/N sites are [[anti-furry]]. E/N is said to stand for Entertainment News. If you happen to know somebody from E/N culture that has been harassing you, quickly call the WAAAAAAAAHMBULANCE.

{{stub}}

Pseudo-Furs (Livejournal)

2005-10-22T08:54:21Z

Starblade: Warning: N00b post!

A pseudofur is what you get when you cross a furry with an [[e/n]] baddie. Typically, pseudofurs will describe themselves as halfway between [[furry]] and [[e/n]] culture. They do this because they believe that by avoiding [[mainstream]] [[furry]] they will be mocked any less and respected any more by the culture with which they claim to be partly associated. This is rarely the case, however.

Pseudofurries are gaining popularity within the fandom, and many just as [[mundane|mundanes]] flock to furry to gain a sense of identity that they can't have as a [[mundane]], full fledged [[furries]] flock to pseudofur to gain a sense of identity that they can't have as a full fledged [[furry]].

What exactly does being pseudofurry entail? For one, it entails [[trolling]] your own friends list in search of those less fortunate enough to be immersed with the [[fandom]], and mocking them relentlessly. For another, it entails pretending to dislike all the various [[kinks]] and [[fetishes]] that go along with [[furry]], while secretly enjoying them, amongst other things.

However, some reguards are in order for pseudofurries, as they don't spend many restless hours on the internet and don't scream [[FURSECUTION]] at stilly little things like [[EAF]]. Many full fledged furs are also jealous at the pseudofur's ability to be [[edgy]] successfully and not care about how cruel they look.

{{stub}}