WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-30T18:04:19Z

SleepAtWork: /* arbitrary section header */

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. <nowiki>[http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this]</nowiki>, how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also <nowiki>[http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log]</nowiki>, search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the <nowiki>[http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks]</nowiki>, <nowiki>[http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers]</nowiki>, <nowiki>[http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes]</nowiki>, <nowiki>[http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads]</nowiki>, and <nowiki>[http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics]</nowiki> they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See <nowiki>[http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]</nowiki>. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: <nowiki>http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/</nowiki> --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl <nowiki>http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html</nowiki> --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have <nowiki>[http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account]</nowiki> there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== Recent reverts ==

I reverted most of the edits by Shifting Souls as being attack edits, most if not all of which were mistaken criticism and implied accusations of homosexuality (such implicit accusations show unnecessary prejudice towards homosexuals, in my opinion). Here's a break-down of individual reverts, since it's impossible to fit it all in the edit summary:

#ED is not best known among furries as a source of furry porn. There's plenty on the "furry" article for satirical purposes, and some on several other furry related articles, including some who have asked not to be included at Wikifur for privacy reasons so I won't link them here. ED is not popular among furries, indicating that it's better known for being mean about furries, not for supplying furries with porn.
#ED is not known for gay porn. <nowiki>[http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Newimages Here]</nowiki> is an automatically generated gallery of the last 20 pictures uploaded to ED at any time. Granted, not all of those will be used in articles, but the ones used in articles are not "mostly gay porn of ugly men".
#ED doesn't accuse people who have had their pictures stolen of stealing them from ED, that's absurd. The only time accusations of "stealing" have happened is when Girlvinyl issued a DMCA to Wikipedia for photos of her on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia for ED's logo and photos of her.
#As far as I know, furries on ED are not "deemed traitors". Many write articles about furries who are unpopular among the fandom. Several of those articles are actually similar to articles found here, such as the [[Sibe]] articles.
#GreenReaper's edits, while not "vandalism" as I had originally put forth (and have since reworded), were not "too factual". ED is not an anti-semitic site. They satirize Jews because they satirize everything, including themselves.
#The "Rainbow template" on ED has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is just another attempt to associate ED with homosexuality, which, while not insulting in itself, is a non-existent association. The following sentence he added about 2 sysops being homosexual is true, but with my revert of the "rainbow" part, is now irrelevant (and also not particularly fantastic, as that's 5% of the population, a normal representation of homosexuals). Which note to the above comment, note that the same editor is saying ED is anti-Jewish but also pro-homosexual, despite the fact that ED makes fun of gays as well, so I'm not sure their judgement about ED is reliable.

And that's it. Let me know if there are any problems. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 15:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:I wonder if that Shifting Souls guy is Miltopia. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 12:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User:Shifting_Souls&redirect=no Someone] seems to think so. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 13:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, the name on there was. Then the guy running that wiki, also known on Encyclopedia Dramatica as registered the name and edited here, as he states in [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:InfernoOfPlasma&diff=4942&oldid=4940 this comment]. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 09:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I followed your link to "this comment" and I see Samsara asking the guy running that wiki to be a sysop. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yes, he follows my edits here and saw that I exposed him. Now he's trying to cover it up. But the point is, Shifting Souls is not Miltopia. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 00:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I was looking to try to find out who the real owner of that wiki was and I found these two edits about MONGO's desyssoping. In that wiki's MONGO article, the owner put, [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=MONGO_did_WTC&diff=5071&oldid=4859 "the good guys won and the villains lost, but not without a great price"] and then shortly later rootology ("fuckface" is his name on Encyclopedia Dramatica, please forgive the profanity) said in the talk page of Encyclopedia Dramatica's MONGO article, <nowiki>[http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMONGO&diff=1997062880&oldid=1997062821 "the forces of good have triumphed over the forces of darkness at last."]</nowiki> I think that's who they are. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 17:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Redfur I clicked on that link to you gave to the Shifting Souls userpage and it has a big proof of IP addresses linking Miltopia, Shifting Souls, and Redfur as the same person, including some stuff Brand ttook. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I reverted [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3445&diff=109315&oldid=108299&rcid=112550 this edit]. It was not because I necessarily disagree with the edit, but rather because this is a talk page, not an article page, and another user's comments were being modified. If there is a disagreement with another user's comments on this page, editors should leave their own comments explaining why they disagreed. We also want to preserve the contents of talk pages so that an accurate archive of the discussion may be kept. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are Miltopia doing harassment. http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_intended_to_hurt_anyone [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

: First, I restored the comments which were removed. As general rule, we do not remove comments for trackability reasons.

: Now, on the subject of "Miltopia", assuming that one of the above users is this person, how does any of the removed/restored text constitute harassment? Are they making comments directed at you in the text? Are they contacting you via another communications channel and causing you problems? What we really need are some sort of details as to how the above edits are harassing before consider any sort of action. (and even if that is the case, a ban is more likely than removing their edits, though the edits might get moved to an archive page) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::This other website exposed Miltopia in a ring of vandalizing, trolling, personal attacks, etc. even here, mentioned IPs saying he was Redfur. Now that website gets made fun of on Encyclopedia Dramatica and he's going all around saying it's me on his site Encyclopedia Dramatica, on here, everywhere. I have nothing to do with that site Miltopia has been harassing me on Encyclopedia Dramatica, carrying it all over the net. GreenReaper knows who I am. Miltopia also lists some of my Encyclopedia Dramatica accounts and there is no reason for them to be here. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::It seems to me it started back in October where it says, "Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. ED is not Furry enough until now 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)" Some stuff here http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.101.67.48 and that IP range has been doing many edits to this article. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

===arbitrary section header===

Ok first off, I am Miltopia. SURPRISE.

Tretonin: You're not hearing me. I WAS ShiftingSouls '''on Trendpedia'''. I provided diffs showing it was the trendpedia owner impersonating me '''here''' to "freak me out". There is no confusion here.

Samssara: None of your drama BS has anything to do with this article. Quit crying to Wikifur about me. They're not the internet police. What the hell do you expect them to do? Nothing.

Everyone: Who cares about Trendpedia, really. No relevance here. GR knows I'm Miltopia and doesn't care. Why? Because I'm not doing anything right now. Trendpedia's owner (who admitted to making bad-faith edits here) has had a major attitude adjustment since Samsara was blocked on ED. Believe what you want. But an editor there who vandalizes here isn't the "crusader for truth" Samsara paints him out to be, so there's no need to fear me.

G'night,

[[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 12:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

*Miltopia, it's trolling like what you just said which got Encyclopedia Dramatica on the spam blacklist here. I've not seen you help ED out once, you're just going around trying to delete things. You've also tarnished the reputation of its best editor, by saying I started up a competitor and it's not so. Maybe GreenReaper lets you do your business of tarshing ED's reputation because he thinks it deserves you to stuff like get it on the spam blacklist. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 18:04, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-28T04:50:39Z

SleepAtWork: /* Recent reverts */

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== Recent reverts ==

I reverted most of the edits by Shifting Souls as being attack edits, most if not all of which were mistaken criticism and implied accusations of homosexuality (such implicit accusations show unnecessary prejudice towards homosexuals, in my opinion). Here's a break-down of individual reverts, since it's impossible to fit it all in the edit summary:

#ED is not best known among furries as a source of furry porn. There's plenty on the "furry" article for satirical purposes, and some on several other furry related articles, including some who have asked not to be included at Wikifur for privacy reasons so I won't link them here. ED is not popular among furries, indicating that it's better known for being mean about furries, not for supplying furries with porn.
#ED is not known for gay porn. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Newimages Here] is an automatically generated gallery of the last 20 pictures uploaded to ED at any time. Granted, not all of those will be used in articles, but the ones used in articles are not "mostly gay porn of ugly men".
#ED doesn't accuse people who have had their pictures stolen of stealing them from ED, that's absurd. The only time accusations of "stealing" have happened is when Girlvinyl issued a DMCA to Wikipedia for photos of her on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia for ED's logo and photos of her.
#As far as I know, furries on ED are not "deemed traitors". Many write articles about furries who are unpopular among the fandom. Several of those articles are actually similar to articles found here, such as the [[Sibe]] articles.
#GreenReaper's edits, while not "vandalism" as I had originally put forth (and have since reworded), were not "too factual". ED is not an anti-semitic site. They satirize Jews because they satirize everything, including themselves.
#The "Rainbow template" on ED has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is just another attempt to associate ED with homosexuality, which, while not insulting in itself, is a non-existent association. The following sentence he added about 2 sysops being homosexual is true, but with my revert of the "rainbow" part, is now irrelevant (and also not particularly fantastic, as that's 5% of the population, a normal representation of homosexuals). Which note to the above comment, note that the same editor is saying ED is anti-Jewish but also pro-homosexual, despite the fact that ED makes fun of gays as well, so I'm not sure their judgement about ED is reliable.

And that's it. Let me know if there are any problems. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 15:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:I wonder if that Shifting Souls guy is Miltopia. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 12:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User:Shifting_Souls&redirect=no Someone] seems to think so. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 13:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, the name on there was. Then the guy running that wiki, also known on Encyclopedia Dramatica as registered the name and edited here, as he states in [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:InfernoOfPlasma&diff=4942&oldid=4940 this comment]. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 09:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I followed your link to "this comment" and I see Samsara asking the guy running that wiki to be a sysop. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yes, he follows my edits here and saw that I exposed him. Now he's trying to cover it up. But the point is, Shifting Souls is not Miltopia. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 00:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I was looking to try to find out who the real owner of that wiki was and I found these two edits about MONGO's desyssoping. In that wiki's MONGO article, the owner put, [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=MONGO_did_WTC&diff=5071&oldid=4859 "the good guys won and the villains lost, but not without a great price"] and then shortly later rootology ("fuckface" is his name on Encyclopedia Dramatica, please forgive the profanity) said in the talk page of Encyclopedia Dramatica's MONGO article, [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMONGO&diff=1997062880&oldid=1997062821 "the forces of good have triumphed over the forces of darkness at last."] I think that's who they are. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 17:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Redfur I clicked on that link to you gave to the Shifting Souls userpage and it has a big proof of IP addresses linking Miltopia, Shifting Souls, and Redfur as the same person, including some stuff Brand ttook. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I reverted [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3445&diff=109315&oldid=108299&rcid=112550 this edit]. It was not because I necessarily disagree with the edit, but rather because this is a talk page, not an article page, and another user's comments were being modified. If there is a disagreement with another user's comments on this page, editors should leave their own comments explaining why they disagreed. We also want to preserve the contents of talk pages so that an accurate archive of the discussion may be kept. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are Miltopia doing harassment. http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_intended_to_hurt_anyone [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

: First, I restored the comments which were removed. As general rule, we do not remove comments for trackability reasons.

: Now, on the subject of "Miltopia", assuming that one of the above users is this person, how does any of the removed/restored text constitute harassment? Are they making comments directed at you in the text? Are they contacting you via another communications channel and causing you problems? What we really need are some sort of details as to how the above edits are harassing before consider any sort of action. (and even if that is the case, a ban is more likely than removing their edits, though the edits might get moved to an archive page) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::This other website exposed Miltopia in a ring of vandalizing, trolling, personal attacks, etc. even here, mentioned IPs saying he was Redfur. Now that website gets made fun of on Encyclopedia Dramatica and he's going all around saying it's me on his site Encyclopedia Dramatica, on here, everywhere. I have nothing to do with that site Miltopia has been harassing me on Encyclopedia Dramatica, carrying it all over the net. GreenReaper knows who I am. Miltopia also lists some of my Encyclopedia Dramatica accounts and there is no reason for them to be here. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::It seems to me it started back in October where it says, "Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. ED is not Furry enough until now 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)" Some stuff here http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.101.67.48 and that IP range has been doing many edits to this article. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-28T04:49:57Z

SleepAtWork: /* Recent reverts */

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== Recent reverts ==

I reverted most of the edits by Shifting Souls as being attack edits, most if not all of which were mistaken criticism and implied accusations of homosexuality (such implicit accusations show unnecessary prejudice towards homosexuals, in my opinion). Here's a break-down of individual reverts, since it's impossible to fit it all in the edit summary:

#ED is not best known among furries as a source of furry porn. There's plenty on the "furry" article for satirical purposes, and some on several other furry related articles, including some who have asked not to be included at Wikifur for privacy reasons so I won't link them here. ED is not popular among furries, indicating that it's better known for being mean about furries, not for supplying furries with porn.
#ED is not known for gay porn. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Newimages Here] is an automatically generated gallery of the last 20 pictures uploaded to ED at any time. Granted, not all of those will be used in articles, but the ones used in articles are not "mostly gay porn of ugly men".
#ED doesn't accuse people who have had their pictures stolen of stealing them from ED, that's absurd. The only time accusations of "stealing" have happened is when Girlvinyl issued a DMCA to Wikipedia for photos of her on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia for ED's logo and photos of her.
#As far as I know, furries on ED are not "deemed traitors". Many write articles about furries who are unpopular among the fandom. Several of those articles are actually similar to articles found here, such as the [[Sibe]] articles.
#GreenReaper's edits, while not "vandalism" as I had originally put forth (and have since reworded), were not "too factual". ED is not an anti-semitic site. They satirize Jews because they satirize everything, including themselves.
#The "Rainbow template" on ED has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is just another attempt to associate ED with homosexuality, which, while not insulting in itself, is a non-existent association. The following sentence he added about 2 sysops being homosexual is true, but with my revert of the "rainbow" part, is now irrelevant (and also not particularly fantastic, as that's 5% of the population, a normal representation of homosexuals). Which note to the above comment, note that the same editor is saying ED is anti-Jewish but also pro-homosexual, despite the fact that ED makes fun of gays as well, so I'm not sure their judgement about ED is reliable.

And that's it. Let me know if there are any problems. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 15:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:I wonder if that Shifting Souls guy is Miltopia. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 12:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User:Shifting_Souls&redirect=no Someone] seems to think so. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 13:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, the name on there was. Then the guy running that wiki, also known on Encyclopedia Dramatica as registered the name and edited here, as he states in [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:InfernoOfPlasma&diff=4942&oldid=4940 this comment]. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 09:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I followed your link to "this comment" and I see Samsara asking the guy running that wiki to be a sysop. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yes, he follows my edits here and saw that I exposed him. Now he's trying to cover it up. But the point is, Shifting Souls is not Miltopia. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 00:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I was looking to try to find out who the real owner of that wiki was and I found these two edits about MONGO's desyssoping. In that wiki's MONGO article, the owner put, [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=MONGO_did_WTC&diff=5071&oldid=4859 "the good guys won and the villains lost, but not without a great price"] and then shortly later rootology ("fuckface" is his name on Encyclopedia Dramatica, please forgive the profanity) said in the talk page of Encyclopedia Dramatica's MONGO article, [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMONGO&diff=1997062880&oldid=1997062821 "the forces of good have triumphed over the forces of darkness at last."] I think that's who they are. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 17:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Redfur I clicked on that link to you gave to the Shifting Souls userpage and it has a big proof of IP addresses linking Miltopia, Shifting Souls, and Redfur as the same person, including some stuff Brand ttook. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I reverted [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3445&diff=109315&oldid=108299&rcid=112550 this edit]. It was not because I necessarily disagree with the edit, but rather because this is a talk page, not an article page, and another user's comments were being modified. If there is a disagreement with another user's comments on this page, editors should leave their own comments explaining why they disagreed. We also want to preserve the contents of talk pages so that an accurate archive of the discussion may be kept. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are Miltopia doing harassment. http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_intended_to_hurt_anyone [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

: First, I restored the comments which were removed. As general rule, we do not remove comments for trackability reasons.

: Now, on the subject of "Miltopia", assuming that one of the above users is this person, how does any of the removed/restored text constitute harassment? Are they making comments directed at you in the text? Are they contacting you via another communications channel and causing you problems? What we really need are some sort of details as to how the above edits are harassing before consider any sort of action. (and even if that is the case, a ban is more likely than removing their edits, though the edits might get moved to an archive page) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::This other website exposed Miltopia in a ring of vandalizing, trolling, personal attacks, etc. even here, mentioned IPs saying he was Redfur. Now that website gets made fun of on Encyclopedia Dramatica and he's going all around saying it's me on his site Encyclopedia Dramatica, on here, everywhere. I have nothing to do with that site Miltopia has been harassing me on Encyclopedia Dramatica, carrying it all over the net. GreenReaper knows who I am. Miltopia also lists some of my Encyclopedia Dramatica accounts and there is no reason for them to be here. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::It seems to me it started back in October where it says, "Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. ED is not Furry enough until now 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)" Some stuff here http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.101.67.48 and that IP has been doing many edits to this article. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-28T04:42:06Z

SleepAtWork: /* Recent reverts */

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== Recent reverts ==

I reverted most of the edits by Shifting Souls as being attack edits, most if not all of which were mistaken criticism and implied accusations of homosexuality (such implicit accusations show unnecessary prejudice towards homosexuals, in my opinion). Here's a break-down of individual reverts, since it's impossible to fit it all in the edit summary:

#ED is not best known among furries as a source of furry porn. There's plenty on the "furry" article for satirical purposes, and some on several other furry related articles, including some who have asked not to be included at Wikifur for privacy reasons so I won't link them here. ED is not popular among furries, indicating that it's better known for being mean about furries, not for supplying furries with porn.
#ED is not known for gay porn. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Newimages Here] is an automatically generated gallery of the last 20 pictures uploaded to ED at any time. Granted, not all of those will be used in articles, but the ones used in articles are not "mostly gay porn of ugly men".
#ED doesn't accuse people who have had their pictures stolen of stealing them from ED, that's absurd. The only time accusations of "stealing" have happened is when Girlvinyl issued a DMCA to Wikipedia for photos of her on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia for ED's logo and photos of her.
#As far as I know, furries on ED are not "deemed traitors". Many write articles about furries who are unpopular among the fandom. Several of those articles are actually similar to articles found here, such as the [[Sibe]] articles.
#GreenReaper's edits, while not "vandalism" as I had originally put forth (and have since reworded), were not "too factual". ED is not an anti-semitic site. They satirize Jews because they satirize everything, including themselves.
#The "Rainbow template" on ED has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is just another attempt to associate ED with homosexuality, which, while not insulting in itself, is a non-existent association. The following sentence he added about 2 sysops being homosexual is true, but with my revert of the "rainbow" part, is now irrelevant (and also not particularly fantastic, as that's 5% of the population, a normal representation of homosexuals). Which note to the above comment, note that the same editor is saying ED is anti-Jewish but also pro-homosexual, despite the fact that ED makes fun of gays as well, so I'm not sure their judgement about ED is reliable.

And that's it. Let me know if there are any problems. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 15:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:I wonder if that Shifting Souls guy is Miltopia. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 12:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User:Shifting_Souls&redirect=no Someone] seems to think so. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 13:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, the name on there was. Then the guy running that wiki, also known on Encyclopedia Dramatica as registered the name and edited here, as he states in [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:InfernoOfPlasma&diff=4942&oldid=4940 this comment]. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 09:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I followed your link to "this comment" and I see Samsara asking the guy running that wiki to be a sysop. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yes, he follows my edits here and saw that I exposed him. Now he's trying to cover it up. But the point is, Shifting Souls is not Miltopia. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 00:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I was looking to try to find out who the real owner of that wiki was and I found these two edits about MONGO's desyssoping. In that wiki's MONGO article, the owner put, [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=MONGO_did_WTC&diff=5071&oldid=4859 "the good guys won and the villains lost, but not without a great price"] and then shortly later rootology ("fuckface" is his name on Encyclopedia Dramatica, please forgive the profanity) said in the talk page of Encyclopedia Dramatica's MONGO article, [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMONGO&diff=1997062880&oldid=1997062821 "the forces of good have triumphed over the forces of darkness at last."] I think that's who they are. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 17:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Redfur I clicked on that link to you gave to the Shifting Souls userpage and it has a big proof of IP addresses linking Miltopia, Shifting Souls, and Redfur as the same person, including some stuff Brand ttook. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I reverted [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3445&diff=109315&oldid=108299&rcid=112550 this edit]. It was not because I necessarily disagree with the edit, but rather because this is a talk page, not an article page, and another user's comments were being modified. If there is a disagreement with another user's comments on this page, editors should leave their own comments explaining why they disagreed. We also want to preserve the contents of talk pages so that an accurate archive of the discussion may be kept. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are Miltopia doing harassment. http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_intended_to_hurt_anyone [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

: First, I restored the comments which were removed. As general rule, we do not remove comments for trackability reasons.

: Now, on the subject of "Miltopia", assuming that one of the above users is this person, how does any of the removed/restored text constitute harassment? Are they making comments directed at you in the text? Are they contacting you via another communications channel and causing you problems? What we really need are some sort of details as to how the above edits are harassing before consider any sort of action. (and even if that is the case, a ban is more likely than removing their edits, though the edits might get moved to an archive page) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

::This other website exposed Miltopia in a ring of vandalizing, trolling, personal attacks, etc. even here, mentioned IPs saying he was Redfur. Now that website gets made fun of on Encyclopedia Dramatica and he's going all around saying it's me on his site Encyclopedia Dramatica, on here, everywhere. I have nothing to do with that site Miltopia has been harassing me on Encyclopedia Dramatica, carrying it all over the net. GreenReaper knows who I am. Miltopia also lists some of my Encyclopedia Dramatica accounts and there is no reason for them to be here. --[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-28T02:45:22Z

SleepAtWork: /* ED Trolls */

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I reverted [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3445&diff=109315&oldid=108299&rcid=112550 this edit]. It was not because I necessarily disagree with the edit, but rather because this is a talk page, not an article page, and another user's comments were being modified. If there is a disagreement with another user's comments on this page, editors should leave their own comments explaining why they disagreed. We also want to preserve the contents of talk pages so that an accurate archive of the discussion may be kept. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are Miltopia doing harassment. http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_intended_to_hurt_anyone [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-28T02:43:58Z

SleepAtWork: Explanation

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I reverted [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3445&diff=109315&oldid=108299&rcid=112550 this edit]. It was not because I necessarily disagree with the edit, but rather because this is a talk page, not an article page, and another user's comments were being modified. If there is a disagreement with another user's comments on this page, editors should leave their own comments explaining why they disagreed. We also want to preserve the contents of talk pages so that an accurate archive of the discussion may be kept. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they are Miltopia doing harassment. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:43, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-28T00:15:23Z

SleepAtWork: remove trolling

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

: [http://www.textfiles.com/media/SCRIPTS/aliens "You tell me. I only work here."] :-P --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== Recent reverts ==

I reverted most of the edits by Shifting Souls as being attack edits, most if not all of which were mistaken criticism and implied accusations of homosexuality (such implicit accusations show unnecessary prejudice towards homosexuals, in my opinion). Here's a break-down of individual reverts, since it's impossible to fit it all in the edit summary:

#ED is not best known among furries as a source of furry porn. There's plenty on the "furry" article for satirical purposes, and some on several other furry related articles, including some who have asked not to be included at Wikifur for privacy reasons so I won't link them here. ED is not popular among furries, indicating that it's better known for being mean about furries, not for supplying furries with porn.
#ED is not known for gay porn. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Newimages Here] is an automatically generated gallery of the last 20 pictures uploaded to ED at any time. Granted, not all of those will be used in articles, but the ones used in articles are not "mostly gay porn of ugly men".
#ED doesn't accuse people who have had their pictures stolen of stealing them from ED, that's absurd. The only time accusations of "stealing" have happened is when Girlvinyl issued a DMCA to Wikipedia for photos of her on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia for ED's logo and photos of her.
#As far as I know, furries on ED are not "deemed traitors". Many write articles about furries who are unpopular among the fandom. Several of those articles are actually similar to articles found here, such as the [[Sibe]] articles.
#GreenReaper's edits, while not "vandalism" as I had originally put forth (and have since reworded), were not "too factual". ED is not an anti-semitic site. They satirize Jews because they satirize everything, including themselves.
#The "Rainbow template" on ED has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is just another attempt to associate ED with homosexuality, which, while not insulting in itself, is a non-existent association. The following sentence he added about 2 sysops being homosexual is true, but with my revert of the "rainbow" part, is now irrelevant (and also not particularly fantastic, as that's 5% of the population, a normal representation of homosexuals). Which note to the above comment, note that the same editor is saying ED is anti-Jewish but also pro-homosexual, despite the fact that ED makes fun of gays as well, so I'm not sure their judgement about ED is reliable.

And that's it. Let me know if there are any problems. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 15:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:I wonder if that Shifting Souls guy is Miltopia. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 12:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User:Shifting_Souls&redirect=no Someone] seems to think so. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 13:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, the name on there was. Then the guy running that [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:InfernoOfPlasma&diff=4942&oldid=4940 this comment]. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 09:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I followed your link to "this comment" and I see asking the guy running that wiki to be a sysop. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yes, he follows my edits here and saw that I exposed him. Now he's trying to cover it up. But the point is, Shifting Souls is not Miltopia. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 00:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I was looking to try to find out who the real owner of that wiki was and I found these two edits about MONGO's desyssoping. In that wiki's MONGO article, the owner put, [http://www.trendpediawiki.com/index.php?title=MONGO_did_WTC&diff=5071&oldid=4859 "the good guys won and the villains lost, but not without a great price"] and then shortly later rootology ("fuckface" is his name on Encyclopedia Dramatica, please forgive the profanity) said in the talk page of Encyclopedia Dramatica's MONGO article, [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMONGO&diff=1997062880&oldid=1997062821 "the forces of good have triumphed over the forces of darkness at last."] I think that's who they are. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 17:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Redfur I clicked on that link to you gave to the Shifting Souls userpage and it has a big proof of IP addresses linking Miltopia, Shifting Souls, and Redfur as the same person, including some stuff Brand ttook. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiFur:Images and media for deletion

2006-08-05T04:51:04Z

SleepAtWork: /* :Image:EDscreenshot.png */

This page is for the discussion of images and media marked for deletion. Please remember, [[WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_a_mirror_or_a_repository_of_links.2C_images.2C_or_media_files|WikiFur is not a mirror or a repository for links, images, or media files]].


== Wiki Images ==
* [[:Image:WikiFur_Growth.png]]
* [[:Image:Wiki_Page_Views.png]]
* [[:Image:Growth150905.png]]
* [[:Image:Views150905.png]]
* [[:Image:Growth01102005.png]]
* [[:Image:Views01102005.png]]

Are these still being used? They doesn't look like they've been updated lately. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 22:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

== [[:Image:EDscreenshot.png]] ==
This file doesn't seem to illustrate site layout or content - It's only an screenshot of the site's maintenance image. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 10:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:I was planning on expaning it into a section of various screenshots of how the site is down a lot and talking about it in the article. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
::This can be deleted[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== August Cleaning ==
I suggest the following pictures be considered for deletion under the same reason: they are not being used or have been replaced with an updated picture on the page they relate to (duplicate images have already been tossed). [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 20:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
*[[:Image:400592.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Anthroness main characters censord.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Dragonmorph in secondlife.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Starwars.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Fullradicalrabbit.JPG]]
*[[:Image:Deviouswolfiewiki.jpg]]
*[[:Image:DSCN0972.JPG]]
*[[:Image:Latinvixenconcept.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Latinvixenicons.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Starfox.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Erica_Starfox.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Slyvester_Greytail.jpg]]
*[[:Image:IonyxCatInTheHat.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Flame.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Kxj.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Rencat3.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Cruise026.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Puffy Fennec.jpg]] - asked to be removed from [[Alicia Retban]] page, presumably by artist or Alicia
*[[:Image:Meerkat.gif]] - should be replaced with clearer image
*[[:Image:Kyocircle.jpg]] - should be replaced with clearer image

User talk:Poolsclosed

2006-08-01T11:52:53Z

SleepAtWork:

Habbo Hotel, eh? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 11:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

User:SleepAtWork

2006-07-11T18:54:07Z

SleepAtWork: On wikibreak

On wikibreak

User talk:SleepAtWork

2006-07-10T16:23:20Z

SleepAtWork: /* Recent blanking of conversations on talk page */

== Asking your permission ==

Would it be okay with you to upload [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Taxidermy.gif this image] to wikifur? It is an animated gif of scenes from the CSI furry episode. It's 1.8MB so I'm obviously not going to risk spending the long time uploading it if it gets deleted and I'm hoping somebody else will do it. If that is not acceptable, would a link to it in the CSI article be allowed? There's no pressure if you don't agree with these. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 05:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

:I probably wouldn't delete it. It is not the best pictoral representation of the whole show, though. The animation tells a story, but it is not the whole story about the show, just as the show does not tell the whole story about the fandom. Its [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Taxidermy purpose on ED] was to promote [[fursecution]] (to whit, the conversion of furries into trophies and rugs) and the selection of passages in the animation is limited to those supporting that argument. I believe that a small selection of screen captures from various points in the show added by use of the <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag (see [[The Forest]] for an example) might be a better addition to the article.

:Another thing to consider - if it takes you a long time to upload it, it will take a long time for many of our contributors to download it as well. 2Mb pages are not really a good idea. This suggests that a link to the animation would be more appropriate, with a note of the file size for those on modems. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

::About size, I see so many websites designed where the only way you can view them is flash. I don't know what the deal with that. The real size getter is YTMNDs where each one is huge and often a copy of several other ones with just a tiny change. You know you're actually a pretty cool person (and probably same for others here) compared to the wikipedia furry community where any mention of furries that isn't in their "furries never yiff, or dress in custumes more than bunny ears, and all furries are heterosexual, and there are the same number of male and female furries" propoganda means a witchhunt and I think it's one of the reasons why encyclopedia dramatica has all the anti-furry stuff--and the site says somewhere it's the denial of some furry aspects that get them made fun of----that can be compared to how the site doesn't make fun of star wars / star trek nerds with more than a small amount. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 10:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Flash is not the most ideal system for web user interfaces (although it does have enviable compatability compared to things like JavaScript). I won't go so far as to say that Flash has no place. It is a good system for the delivery of multimedia content. We tend to link to that rather than host it, though. :-)

:::It is true that people are sometimes overly defensive. However, at the same time, some have good reason - there [http://forums.hatersonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=164 really are] "furry haters" for which it is a hobby to just go out there and spread the message that furries suck. Most of them don't actually ''know'' anything about the fandom, participate in any of the events, or contribute anything - they're just having fun putting other people down. I'm more than willing to accept criticism from people like [[Nothingkat]], who at least knows what he's talking about. And . . . well, I've not heard people make the above assertions before. I'm sure a lot of people say "not all furries yiff, not all dress up in fursuits, not all are gay and furries are not all male", but there's a big difference between that and utter denial.

:::As for Wikipedia, you have to remember that the purpose of their project (as ours) is to '''make an encyclopedia''', ''not'' to make fun of people. The [[Wikipedia:furry fandom|furry fandom]] article already has five whole paragraphs on sexual activities. I think that gives readers a fairly good idea of the extent of sexual content in the fandom. When you get [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Furry_lifestyler&diff=prev&oldid=51228054 edits] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Furry_Wikipedians&diff=prev&oldid=51070460 like] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Furry_fandom&diff=prev&oldid=50860121 these], it is very easy to see why a lot of them get reverted.

:::ED would have furry stuff on it regardless, I am sure. After all, we already own [[LiveJournal]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 01:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

== Reverted edit on Tl;dr ==

I reverted your edit on [[Tl;dr]] as, its content was not only an opinion but somewhat malformed and unrelated in any real way to the content of the page. I'm happy to discuss with you the edit if you feel otherwise. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 12:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

== hi ==

"Girl's amateur use of makeup by applying too much and her voice make are evidence she is a teenager below the age of eighteen." That wasn't meant as personal, though. It was more a Sherlock Holmes style detective work. I just want to be clear it was not my intention. I probably wrote it wrong. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 14:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

:It just seemed . . . well, like something you'd post on LiveJournal rather than in an encyclopedia, in much the same way as you get anti-furries taking pictures of fat people at cons and going "hey, look, aren't furries fat!" - maybe that wasn't your intention, but it was the vibe I got from your words. Her ''own'' words make her look bad enough as it is without pointing out her use of makeup.

:A secondary consideration is that page is intended to be just a list of links rather than an in-depth discussion of them. If you really want to write up the details (which would probably include details from both videos), you could make an article on it and then link to it, as with the other articles linked from the media links page. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

:: Hmmm... you have an odd idea of copying the threads of talk and putting it on both talk pages. Well back to the topic, I also forgot the eyebrows were unplucked (I just wanted to write that down somewhere) as giving evidence that she was a minor. I think I'll put likely minor in the article. Umm.. I don't know if it's worthy of an article itself. It mostly is just a webcam video and then speaking of the vanity fair article. It would be different if it went through the things produced by actual furries, like her reaction to furry pornography art, but I think the video looks like little effort was put into it, and the humor was mostly the behavior of the girl herself. Encyclopedia Dramatica and some of the TV spots for instance do put some effort into their work. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 15:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I can just see that sequel: "Valley Girl, Furry Porn". Nuts and berries, indeed!

:::I actually think there's an opportunity to do a ''good'' video on furries and put it up there. The question would be whether or not anyone would go around with a videocamera at (say) Anthrocon and film it, and whether or not people would agree to its distribution. Maybe if it was done by someone already respected in the community.

:::I tend to copy talk because it's easier for other people to follow that way. I also archive my talk now and then, which makes it harder for people trying to follow the other side of conversation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Off subject, when the game Spore comes out (a design evolution), I expect it may have something for furry gaming. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 15:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:I agree, though [[Second Life]] seems to have grabbing most of the virtual furry world for now. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

== how did you do that? ==

In http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=CSI&action=history I see you have "updated since my last visit" highlighted in green. In the diff, the highlighted doesn't show. How did you do that? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 12:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:I don't see any highlighting and actually haven't the faintest what you're referring to. All I can suggest is poking around in preferences (options can be obscurely tucked away in there). -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 19:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC) (Echoed to your talk page)

== Can you help? ==

On [[furluminati]], Spirou constantly vandalizes the article, but no matter what I put he reverts me back to his version (and he has not even corrected the grammar/spelling errors in it). I have tried and tried to please him, but I've seen his type and they just revert nonstop as they like--just like willy on wheels likes to move pages to "on wheels" and others like to blank pages, Spirou gets his vandalism high from reverting. I keep trying to please him, but obviously he is just out to cause trouble by revert vandalism. I have put hours and hours into fixing it up and he does not care. Spirou is not here to fix anything, he is just to harass me by reverting anything I do on the article, even fixing his grammar. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'm guessing GreenReaper is away right now. Have either of you heard of the [[Wikipedia:WP:3RR|three revert rule]] on Wikipedia? I think it can apply here on WikiFur too. I'll block for 24 hours if I see a violation of the three revert rule from either of you. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 03:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::Spirou will then just revert 3 times a day, but still vandalize. Also on wikipedia reverting vandalism doesn't count toward 3RR. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:::If you're familiar with [[Wikipedia:WP:vand|vandalism]], you'll know that ''Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. Apparent bad-faith edits that do not make their bad-faith nature inarguably explicit are not considered vandalism at Wikipedia.'' So don't be claiming edits are vandalism unless they are explicitly bad faith. This applies to edit summaries too. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 03:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::::I considered it explicitly bad faith. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::As GreenReaper has taken over this issue, I have no further comment. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 05:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== What was the killhamster article here? ==

You said: "I would note that the article about "killhamster", whose article was used as a reference, was deleted, twice, for being totally full of nonsense added by himself and his friends."

I referenced his livejournal and the edit dispute in the LJ was talking about on ED. Umm... did he make an article on wikifur? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 09:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

:Yes. It was at various times a duplicate of User:Killhamster on ED, and/or random nonsense. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

== Meet the Furries article ==

I created a stub for the article you requested (by the way, I found there's a section under the Media Coverage category for "stuff that doesn't have an article yet") under [[Meet the "Furries"]]. Feel free to edit it; I just added the bare basics. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]

== Recent blanking of conversations on talk page ==

Please don't blank conversations from your talk page without moving them to an archive. It is important to maintain a public record of conversations between wiki users about the wiki. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 12:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:I answered it off this wiki and wished it private. Read my edit summaries next time. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
::I did read your edit summary and, in my opinion, it did not justify removing that information. The accusation made by [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] and the associated evidence is public in nature and does not qualify for removal under the personal information policy. In addition, this conversation concerns users other than [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] and yourself -- namely [[Taurin Fox]] who appearently asked to be excluded in part due to the edits you allegedly made. I will not restore the conversation right now but I will seek the advice of other admins on this matter. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 13:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:::I too am not happy thatthe conversation was blanked, but I will not restore it at this time. I will wait until the private discussion on the matter has concluded. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 14:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I'd like to know what I did to upset Taurin Fox? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 16:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-07-10T13:18:40Z

SleepAtWork: /* Joseph Evers theory */

WikiFur:Images and media for deletion

2006-07-10T13:17:38Z

SleepAtWork: /* :Image:EDscreenshot.png */

User talk:SleepAtWork

2006-07-10T13:13:17Z

SleepAtWork:

User talk:SleepAtWork

2006-07-10T09:47:45Z

SleepAtWork: responding off this wiki

Standing Proud

2006-07-10T02:10:43Z

SleepAtWork: don't know if this is good

'''''Standing Proud''''' is a well known piece of [[furry art]] created by [[Taurin Fox]] in 2004. It depicts his charcter, a male anthro fox wearing pride rings, with a tear running down his cheek, with a rainbow flag behind him, and with a ghandi quote about passive resistance. Unfortunately, because of its popularity, this piece of art has been subject to misrepresentation, parody, photoshopping, and ridicule.

Although some have thought it was inteded as an anti-[[fursecution]] piece, ''Standing Proud'' was actually meant<ref>[http://www.taurinfox.com/art/2004/commentary.html ''Standing Proud'' artwork and commentary by Taurin Fox]</ref> to be a statement about the "dire state" of [[Wikipedia:gay rights|gay rights]] in the US, and was inspired by a 2004 election issue raised by George W. Bush who spoke of a constitutional ammendment to ban gay marriage, and during the time when 11 states approved amendments to their [[Wikipedia:Constitution|constitutions]] in order to ban gay people from marrying.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Arts and Crafts]]

2006-07-09T19:24:36Z

SleepAtWork: /* Drew Carey */

Talk:List of media links

2006-07-08T18:47:50Z

SleepAtWork:

Talk:List of media links

2006-07-08T18:47:14Z

SleepAtWork: Drew Carey

Zoophilia

2006-07-08T01:04:33Z

SleepAtWork: /* Moral debate */

'''Zoophilia''', is a [[Wikipedia:paraphilia|paraphilia]].

It is common misconception that [[furries]] are lovers of animals, and (by extension) zoophiles. It is true that a significant proportion of erotic furry artwork and stories involve beings with animalistic characteristics having sex with each other, or with humans, but it should be noted that the participants are usually [[anthropomorphic]] animals. While some furries do practice the physical act of zoophilia, the majority do not engage in any sexual contact with other animals in real life. However, some may roleplay otherwise in a fantasy scenario.

==Moral debate==
One of the main arguments against zoophilia on moral grounds is that animals cannot "say no", or do not have the intellectual capability to dissent. Many claim this argument naturally does not apply if a sexual act is performed in a consenting manner with an intelligent being, such as an anthropomorphic character. Others believe that animals are sexual beings and are capable of communicating their desires through body language and voluntary actions. Proponents of this argument point out that animals are capable of resistance and vocalizing their disapproval if such relationships were not in their interest.

Another argument is that zoophilia is a "crime against nature" while others dismiss this as a "subjective" claim. This is based either upon an [[Wikipedia:Aristotle|Aristotle]]-based notion of natural order or a religious precept of right and wrong in relation to nature. Such individuals probably view much furry erotica as wrong under this argument, since it may involve two beings of different [[species]].

Some argue that animals can refuse. Most animals are only in heat/rutt once a month that they may refuse. Animals also are very likely to refuse if they do not know a person. Most animals also do not like receiving anal sex. Just like an animal may refuse to swallow a pill, it may refuse sex. [http://www.1av10.nu/~chaotic/BEASTSEX.TXT]

Some people say they are able to communicate telepathically with animals and that a bark is implied consent. [http://www.wolfjlupus.com/Per/Bios/Spiritual/Spiritual_Biography.txt] As opposed to most, some claim that they are disgusted by human erotica, but are attracted to animals so they are just following their nature. [http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=1265302] Some people believe that informed consent does not require communication on the same level; it requires knowledge of the act in question that is all.[http://community.livejournal.com/hybrid_kin/47786.html?thread=545194]

==Zoophilia versus bestiality==
Many zoophiles draw a distinction between the term zoophilia and [[bestiality]]. They state zoophiles are lovers of animals and perform sexual acts with them as an extension of a deeper emotional and perhaps spiritual relationship with the animal. Some zoophiles consider themselves their animal partner their [[mate]] and do not date other humans in real life because they are 'taken'. Conversely, other zoophiles claim bestiality involves the forcing of sexual conduct with an animal regardless of its will to comply or consideration for its feelings.

==See also==
* [[Wikipedia:Zoophilia|Zoophilia]] on Wikipedia
* [[Bestiality]]

== External links ==

* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sex.bestiality/browse_frm/thread/b26e8acbd087f127 Zoophilia and Your Health]'' (posted on [[alt.sex.bestiality]])

[[Category:Paraphilias]]
[[Category:Mature terms]]

Zoophilia

2006-07-04T15:52:41Z

SleepAtWork: /* Moral debate */

'''Zoophilia''', is a [[Wikipedia:paraphilia|paraphilia]].

It is common misconception that [[furries]] are lovers of animals, and (by extension) zoophiles. It is true that a significant proportion of erotic furry artwork and stories involve beings with animalistic characteristics having sex with each other, or with humans, but it should be noted that the participants are usually [[anthropomorphic]] animals. While some furries do practice the physical act of zoophilia, the majority do not engage in any sexual contact with other animals in real life. However, some may roleplay otherwise in a fantasy scenario.

==Moral debate==
One of the main arguments against zoophilia on moral grounds is that animals cannot "say no", or do not have the intellectual capability to dissent. Many claim this argument naturally does not apply if a sexual act is performed in a consenting manner with an intelligent being, such as an anthropomorphic character. Others believe that animals are sexual beings and are capable of communicating their desires through body language and voluntary actions. Proponents of this argument point out that animals are capable of resistance and vocalizing their disapproval if such relationships were not in their interest.

Another argument is that zoophilia is a "crime against nature" while others dismiss this as a "subjective" claim. This is based either upon an [[Wikipedia:Aristotle|Aristotle]]-based notion of natural order or a religious precept of right and wrong in relation to nature. Such individuals probably view much furry erotica as wrong under this argument, since it may involve two beings of different [[species]].

Some argue that animals can refuse. Most animals are only in heat/rutt once a month that they may refuse. Animals also are very likely to refuse if they do not know a person. Most animals also do not like receiving anal sex. Just like an animal may refuse to swallow a pill, it may refuse sex. [http://www.1av10.nu/~chaotic/BEASTSEX.TXT]

==Zoophilia versus bestiality==
Many zoophiles draw a distinction between the term zoophilia and [[bestiality]]. They state zoophiles are lovers of animals and perform sexual acts with them as an extension of a deeper emotional and perhaps spiritual relationship with the animal. Some zoophiles consider themselves their animal partner their [[mate]] and do not date other humans in real life because they are 'taken'. Conversely, other zoophiles claim bestiality involves the forcing of sexual conduct with an animal regardless of its will to comply or consideration for its feelings.

==See also==
* [[Wikipedia:Zoophilia|Zoophilia]] on Wikipedia
* [[Bestiality]]

== External links ==

* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sex.bestiality/browse_frm/thread/b26e8acbd087f127 Zoophilia and Your Health]'' (posted on [[alt.sex.bestiality]])

[[Category:Paraphilias]]
[[Category:Mature terms]]

Zoophilia

2006-07-04T15:50:16Z

SleepAtWork: /* Moral debate */

'''Zoophilia''', is a [[Wikipedia:paraphilia|paraphilia]].

It is common misconception that [[furries]] are lovers of animals, and (by extension) zoophiles. It is true that a significant proportion of erotic furry artwork and stories involve beings with animalistic characteristics having sex with each other, or with humans, but it should be noted that the participants are usually [[anthropomorphic]] animals. While some furries do practice the physical act of zoophilia, the majority do not engage in any sexual contact with other animals in real life. However, some may roleplay otherwise in a fantasy scenario.

==Moral debate==
One of the main arguments against zoophilia on moral grounds is that animals cannot "say no", or do not have the intellectual capability to dissent. Many claim this argument naturally does not apply if a sexual act is performed in a consenting manner with an intelligent being, such as an anthropomorphic character. Others believe that animals are sexual beings and are capable of communicating their desires through body language and voluntary actions. Proponents of this argument point out that animals are capable of resistance and vocalizing their disapproval if such relationships were not in their interest.

Another argument is that zoophilia is a "crime against nature" while others dismiss this as a "subjective" claim. This is based either upon an [[Wikipedia:Aristotle|Aristotle]]-based notion of natural order or a religious precept of right and wrong in relation to nature. Such individuals probably view much furry erotica as wrong under this argument, since it may involve two beings of different [[species]].

Some argue that animals can refuse. Most animals are only in heat/rutt once a month that they may refuse. Animals also are very likely to refuse if they do not know a person. Just like an animal may refuse to swallow a pill, it may refuse sex. [http://www.1av10.nu/~chaotic/BEASTSEX.TXT]

==Zoophilia versus bestiality==
Many zoophiles draw a distinction between the term zoophilia and [[bestiality]]. They state zoophiles are lovers of animals and perform sexual acts with them as an extension of a deeper emotional and perhaps spiritual relationship with the animal. Some zoophiles consider themselves their animal partner their [[mate]] and do not date other humans in real life because they are 'taken'. Conversely, other zoophiles claim bestiality involves the forcing of sexual conduct with an animal regardless of its will to comply or consideration for its feelings.

==See also==
* [[Wikipedia:Zoophilia|Zoophilia]] on Wikipedia
* [[Bestiality]]

== External links ==

* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sex.bestiality/browse_frm/thread/b26e8acbd087f127 Zoophilia and Your Health]'' (posted on [[alt.sex.bestiality]])

[[Category:Paraphilias]]
[[Category:Mature terms]]

Furry fandom

2006-07-04T15:37:06Z

SleepAtWork: /* Misinformation */ let's link to all the media links

'''Furry fandom''' (also known as '''Furrydom'''/'''Furridom''', '''Fur Fandom''' or '''Furdom''') refers to the ''[http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fandom fandom]'' for the ''[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/1EKGG0RXMUDYH/104-6800273-7092718 furry genre]'' of literature, art and entertainment. Furry fandom is also used to refer to the community of artists, writers, role players and general fans of the furry art forms who gather on the net and at [[conventions]].

Members of the furry fandom, known as ''furry fans'', ''furries'', or ''furs'', particularly enjoy media that includes fictional [[anthropomorphic]] animal characters with human personalities and characteristics. Examples of anthropomorphic attributes include exhibiting human intelligence and facial expressions, the ability to speak, walking on two legs, and wearing clothing.

Characters that [[morph]] between human and animal form are also considered by some to be part of the genre. Even certain superheroes with animal derived powers are considered of furry interest by some fans. The general idea being a combination of human and animal attributes, for which there is no documented science regarding what degrees of mixture are required.

Even [http://members.aol.com/horemheb/josie.htm Josie And The Pussycats] are considered of interest to furry fandom, though the characters only wear costumes with animal ears and tails.<ref>[http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry/furries.htm Invasion of the Furries] - Description of furry fandom with Josie And The Pussy Cats reference.</ref>

==Furry creativity==

Because the furry genre is widely considered to be a children’s market, there is a considerable lack of furry entertainment specifically geared to adult aged audiences. The community of mostly adult aged furry fans that has formed around the genre is particularly dedicated to filling the need for such products through fan creativity.

Content available from furry fans on the internet and at conventions covers a wide range of interests, including all manner of fantasy, philosophy, sex, politics, religion and lifestyle.

The genre is considered to be so versatile that it can extend into just about any form of creativity, from things as simple as recipe books with anthropomorphic illustrations <ref>[http://www.ozfoxes.com/cat3.htm Sweet Treats] - an example of a furry cookbook.</ref> to technical creations as complicated as interactive furry companions for your desktop.<ref>[http://www.foxee.net/ Foxee] - example of an interactive character.</ref> Other forms of furry craftsmanship include the creation of ''flash animation'' <ref>[http://www.illwillpress.com/ Foamy The Squirrel] - example of a flash animation character.</ref> and [[fursuits]].

But by far the most prolific output of furry fandom is artwork. Furry artwork produced by the fandom ranges from basic cartooning to highly detailed works fit for hanging in galleries. Furry artists also create a wide variety of comic strips. The subject matter of this artwork being as flexible as any other area of the furry arts, ranging from innocent depictions of cute furry character suitable for all ages, to mature works that are age restricted.

==The furry genre==

===Definition===

The furry genre is a ''[http://everything2.net/?node_id=1244766 metagenre]'' based on the idea of fantasy animal characters, rather than any one type of fiction. Any title in any type of media can be considered a part of the furry genre simply by having a fantasy animal character in it, though such characters are most often seen in cartoons, comics, science fiction, allegorical novels, Gothic horror movies, commercials and video games.

The most common term used to describe such animal characters is anthropomorphic. Furry fans refer to any anthropomorphic animal character as a ''furry.'' Other terms for these types of characters are ''[[funny animal]],'' ''[[talking animal]],'' or ''[[kemono]]'' in Japan.

===History===

The genre itself may be as old as civilization. Anthropomorphic animal characters are found in the art of many ancient cultures. Anthropomorphic characters from Egyptian mythology continue to this day to be a source of inspiration to furry artists. The earliest example of furry literature commonly cited by furry fans is [[Aesop’s Fables]], which date to around 500 BC.<ref>[http://www.claws-and-paws.com/furry/non-fiction/faq.html Furries] - description of the fandom with reference to Aesop’s Fables.</ref> Furry characters then continued to proliferate through the ages in the form of folk tales, many of which are a common part of our modern culture.

It is not until the 1800’s that more specifically documented examples of the furry genre can be chronicled. And they are seen appearing in a variety of different forms of entertainment. These include the earliest author credited animal related fairytales by Hans Christian Anderson in 1836, the poem The Owl And The Pussycat by Edward Leer in 1871, Lewis Carroll’s fantasy novel Alice In Wonderland in 1865, Tchaikovsky’s ballet Swan Lake in 1875, Beatrix Potter’s illustrated children’s books in 1890, Rudyard Kipling’s collection of talking animal stories The Jungle Book in 1894, H. G. Wells’ 1896 novel The Island Of Doctor Moreau was the first appearance of intelligent animals in science fiction, and the first appearance of anthropomorphic animals in comic strips was James Swinnerton’s The Little Tigers in 1895.

Once the comic strip had been introduced, anthropomorphic characters quickly became almost synonymous with that art form. Comic strips would become known as The Funnies, and animals in comic strips would become known as Funny Animals.

The term “Funny Animals” soon spread beyond comic strips and into the realm of illustrated children's books. Authors such as Palmer Cox, Laura Rountree Smith and Neil Wayne Northey not only referred to their anthropomorphic characters as “Funny Animals,” they also referred to them collectively as “the furry folk” and “furry friends.” <ref>[http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:CZWdgw8LLhkJ:remnantprophecy.sdaglobal.org/Librarypdf/Children%27s/Paddletail-Beaver.pdf+Furry+Folk&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=437 Neil Wayne Northey's Paddletail] - example of early 20th century literature with the term Furry Folk highlighted throughout.</ref>

The term “Furry” has since remained in the background of animal related fantasy. Particularly in the English folk culture scene. As late as 1978, bands like Genesis and Jethro Tull were still using this furry folk terminology to refer to anthropomorphic animals in their songs.<ref>[http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:k-4PKXz_s3sJ:www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jethro%2Btull/the%2Bmouse%2Bpolice%2Bnever%2Bsleeps_20071013.html+little+furry+folk&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=40 The Mouse Police Never Sleeps] 1978 Jethro Tull lyrics with Furry Folk highlighted.</ref>

In 1976, Furry Folk also became the name of a popular line of animal puppets.<ref>[http://www.allthingsbright.com/FurryFolk/index.html Furry Folk Puppets] - example of the term Furry gaining popularity in the 70's.</ref> From that time, the term “Furry” has gradually gained popularity as an alternative to the term “Funny Animals,” as it does not carry a connotation of humor, and it is inclusive of all fantasy animals, not just the ones that walk upright and wear clothes. The term has today reached such prominent use that it is not unheard of for reviewers to refer to the characters in such films as [[Over The Hedge]] as “Furries.” <ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/18/AR2006051802306.html?sub=AR Critters Offer Consumer Retorts] - review in which the characters in Over The Hedge are referred to as furries.</ref>

The furry genre was firmly established by the start of the 20th century. Since then it has enjoyed many ups and downs in terms of popularity and acceptability among adults. Particularly in the early 20th century, fantasy animal characters were an object of fascination to children and adults alike, appearing in almost every conceivable type of entertainment and establishing themselves as a major marketing tool, not only of consumer products, but of political ideas. This was best demonstrated In 1945 by George Orwell’s [[Animal Farm]].

In the later half of the 20th century, general attitudes towards animal related fantasy changed. Cartoons and literature focused most of their animal related efforts on the children’s entertainment market, inspiring many to believe that cartoons and animal stories were strictly for kids. Though this does not seem to have prevented adults from continuing to enjoy the antics of funny animals in the comic strips.

In the late 60’s the beginnings of a backlash against this could be seen. The pop culture of the late sixties and early 70’s used funny animal imagery in many creative works meant for adults. The Beatles wearing fursuits on the cover of Magical Mystery Tour and the advent of Robert Crumb’s [[Fritz The Cat]] showed that many creative people saw more use for animal characters than children’s entertainment.

Serious animal literature soon began to appear that proved to have surprising appeal for adults. Richard Adams’ [[Watership Down]] and Richard Bach’s [[Jonathan Livingston Seagull]] topped the best seller list in the early 70’s.

In the late 70’s, attitudes began to change again. Fantasy in general began to enjoy more respect among adult audiences, eventually becoming a major entertainment market in which there was considerable room for furry elements, such as the [[Ewoks]] and [[Wookies]] of [[Star Wars]], and the mythical creatures in [[Piers Anthony]] novels.

Near the beginning of the 80’s, the furry genre enjoyed the first explosion of popularity it had seen since the 1930’s. Furry characters littered the animation world as well as toy stores. But there was also adult furry entertainment.

1982 saw the release of four all ages furry films - [[The Secret Of NIMH]], [[The Flight Of Dragons]], [[The Last Unicorn]] and [[The Plague Dogs]]. While the fantasy novel market soon began producing such titles as Alan Dean Foster’s [[Spellsinger]] series, Brian Jacques’ [[Redwall]] and Tad Williams’ [[Tailchaser’s Song]]. And the independent comics market produced titles as varied as [[Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles]], [[Albedo]], [[Usagi Yojimbo]], [[Cutey Bunny]], [[Critters]] and [[Omaha The Cat Dancer]].

By the start of the 90’s, the furry genre was finally starting to gain recognition as a unique segment of the arts with a specifically adult aged fandom that products could be marketed to. But this idea was not readily understood or accepted. And, as the fantasy boom of the 80’s began to subside, the promoters of the new furry market were driven underground, where they found companionship with another fledgling market, [[anime]].

Since anime and anthropomorphics artists were both involved in the unlikely concept of marketing cartoons to adults, they often joined forces in the creation of companies like [[Antarctic Press]], which were some of the principle promoters of a new adult market for cartoons.

Unfortunately, such companies had only been moderately successful in this endeavor at the point where the entire comic industry crashed. At this point anime and furry went separate ways. Anime used television as a means of promoting itself, while furry fans turned to the internet.

Since then, the mainstream entertainment industry has continued to create many works within the furry genre which are mostly directed at children, while the furry community has steadily grown on the internet providing entertainment for adult aged audiences.

===Titles and characters===

Characters and titles that contain characters who may be considered relative to the fandom for furry genre may include the following, among many others.

* From classic comic strips

[[Snoopy]] & [[Woodstock]], [[Garfield]], [[Rupert Bear]], [[Krazy Kat]], [[Pogo]].

* From classic cartoons

[[Mickey Mouse]], [[Bugs Bunny]], [[Felix The Cat]], [[Mighty Mouse]], [[Andy Panda]], [[Woody Woodpecker]], [[Baby Huey]], [[Donald Duck]], [[Porky Pig]], [[Wile E. Coyote]], [[Tom & Jerry]], [[Super Snooper & Blabber Mouse]], [[Yogi Bear]].

* From television animation

[[My Little Pony]], [[Rocky & Bullwinkle]], [[Monchichis]], [[The Get Along Gang]], [[Care Bears]], [[Shirt Tails]], [[The Puppy’s Great Adventures]], [[Popples]], [[Sylvanian Families]], [[Pound Puppies]], [[Rescue Rangers]], [[Father Of The Pride]], [[The Angry Beavers]], [[Rocko's Modern Life]], [[SWAT Kats]], [[Heathcliff and The Catillac Cats]].

* From commercials

[[Tony The Tiger]], [[The Trix Rabbit]], [[The Exxon Tiger]], [[The Geico Gecko]], [[The Taco Bell Dog]], [[Chuck E. Cheese]], [[Charlie Tuna]].

* From feature animation

[[Bambi]], [[Lady & The Tramp]], [[Charlotte's Web]], [[Watership Down]], [[The Secret Of NIMH]], [[The Plague Dogs]], [[The Last Unicorn]], [[The Flight Of Dragons]], [[Disney’s Robin Hood]], [[The Fox And he Hound,]] [[The Lion King]], [[Madagascar]], [[The Wild]], [[Over The Hedge]], [[Who Framed Roger Rabbit]].

* From novels

[[Jonathan Livingston Seagull]], [[The Little Prince]], [[Redwall]], [[Spellsinger]], [[The Apprentice Adept]], [[Xanth]], [[Alice In Wonderland]], [[The Wizard Of Oz]], [[The Jungle Book]], [[The Chronicles Of Narnia]], [[The Island Of Dr. Moreau,]] [[Animal Farm,]] [[Sirius,]] [[Miss Bianca,]] [[Tailchaser’s Song,]] [[Breed to Come,]] [[The Moreau series]].

* From anime

Luna & Artimas from [[Sailor Moon]], Ryo-okki from [[Tenchi Muyo]], [[Unico]], [[Hello Kitty]], [[Amazing 3]], [[Kimba The White Lion]], [[Dragon Half]], [[Slayers]], [[Bagi]], [[Pokemon]], [[Digimon]], [[Tokyo Mew Mew]], [[Samurai Pizza Cats]], [[Angel's Tail]], [[Ko Century Beastketteers]], [[Di Gi Charat]], [[Super Pig]], [[Ranma ½]], [[Cat Girl Nuku Nuku]], [[Yu Yu Hakusho]], [[My Neighbor Totoro]].

* From video games

[[Darkstalkers]], [[Sonic The Hedgehog]], [[Starfox]], [[RuneQuest]], [[EverQuest]], [[Jazz Jackrabbit]], [[Conker's Bad Fur Day]], [[Animal Crossing]].

* From Old Time Radio

[[The Cinnamon Bear]], [[Smiling Ed’s Buster Brown Gang]].

* From Gothic horror

[[Dracula]], [[The Wolfman]], [[Cat People]].

* From live action television

[[Dark Shadows]], [[Doctor Who]], [[ALF]], [[Mr. Ed]].

* From live action films
[[Star Wars]], [[Planet Of The Apes]], [[Ladyhawke]].

* From the stage

[[Cats]], [[The Cunning Little Vixen,]] [[Swan Lake]].

* From classic comic books

[[Fawcetts Funny Animals,]] [[Frisky Fables]].

* From modern age comics

[[Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles]], [[Shanda The Panda]], [[Furrlough]], [[Albedo]], [[Elfquest]], [[Spiderman]], [[Batman]], [[Howard The Duck]], [[Fritz The Cat]], [[Omaha The Cat Dancer]], [[Maus]], [[Usagi Yojimbo]], [[Cutey Bunny]], [[Critters]], [[Gold Digger]], [[Ninja High School]], [[Tank Vixens]], [[Genus]].

* From flash animation

[[Foamy The Squirrel]], [[Bonzai Bunny]].

* From net comic strips

[[Newshounds]], [[Boomer Express]], [[The Suburban Jungle]], [[Kevin and Kell]], [[Faux Pas]], [[Namir Deiter]], [[Sabrina Online]], [[Dan and Mab's Furry Adventures]], [[VG Cats]], [[Better Days]], [[Ozy and Millie]], [[Tales of the Questor]], [[Umlaut House]], [[Freefall]], [[Supermegatopia]], [[Las Lindas]], [[A Doemain Of Their Own]].

==Organization of the fandom==

The fandom for furry characters traces its organization back to a science fiction convention in 1980,<ref>''[http://www.arclight.net/~yarf/YARF_Chronology.html Yarf Chronology Of Furry Fandom]''</ref> when a drawing of a character from [[Steve Gallacci]]’s Albedo started a discussion of anthropomorphic characters in science fiction novels, spawning a discussion group that met at various [[science fiction]] and [[comics]] [[convention]]s.

Over the next several years, a gradually increasing number of “furry fans” developed [[fanzines]] and eventually began to have gatherings at house parties. By 1987 enough interest had been generated for the first furry convention.

As the internet became more accessible, it became the most popular means for furry fans to keep in touch and share their artistic efforts. This gained the fandom higher visibility and it began to grow rapidly.

Virtual environments, such as [[MUD|MUCK]]s, soon became the most popular places on the net for furry fans to meet and communicate. One of the oldest and largest MUCKs in existence is [[FurryMUCK]]. One of the newest virtual environments to attract furry fans is [[Second Life]].

Today, those furry fans who have discovered the large concentration of fellow fans on the net have joined with them to create the virtual society that is the collective furry community. Other furry fans, particularly the computer illiterate, remain isolated in their interest with little to no awareness that there is an organized community for fans of the furry genre.

==The furry community==

The furry community, referred to by many as furry fandom, or just the fandom, is the virtual universe inhabited by all those who refer to themselves as “Furries.”

It is a separate entity from what many fans of furry entertainment mean when they use the term furry fandom. To a traditional furry fan, furry fandom means fans of furry characters, period. But the community encompasses a great deal more than just the fandom for furry characters. It includes elements of religion, lifestyle and philosophy.

===Furry lifestyle===

The most commonly stated interest cited among members of the community, other than an enjoyment of furry entertainment, is a sense some may have of personally identifying with a certain kind of animal.

This is a relatively common aspect of human nature. Many people may feel an affinity for a certain type of animal. Marketers of collectibles have been creating products for people with such feelings for generations. Though it has rarely been something one had an open atmosphere in which to explore and get more deeply in touch with. The furry community, through its many virtual role play environments, provides this avenue for exploration into why certain people feel their particular affinity.

Some may view animals with a kind of religious reverence reminiscent of [[Buddhism]], [[Shamanism]] or [[Otherkin]]. They may feel that they are the reincarnation of an animal, or that an animal spirit watches over them.

===Furry sociability===

Others may join the furry community simply because it is a free environment where one can form friendships without the normal social problems of having to hide one’s sexual orientation. It is also a place where some may come to find compassionate understanding and assistance with personal problems. The furry community prides itself on a concept of open mindedness and tolerance.

===Furry fetishes===

The furry community also attracts furry related fetishists who warm to the non-condemning atmosphere and the ability to express fantasies of a sexual nature that would rarely be tolerated anywhere else.

Surveys place the number of extreme fetishists in the community at a comparatively low percentage, though the few there are tend to be extremely visible on the net.

==Furry controversies==

===Defining the genre===

Historically, very little has been written about the concept of furry as a genre of entertainment. And the community itself sometimes has difficulty getting a grip on what the main object of the fandom is supposed to be. Consequently, some prominent members of the community may express ideas of limitation based on their personal taste in anthropomorphics. Others may feel that their taste in anthropomorphics are excluded by such limitations.

There are no written rules as to what types or levels of human and animal attributes are necessary for inclusion in the genre. The only noticeable defining factor seems to be that there be some kind of combination of the two. Thus, it is best to approach the genre with the broadest possible view, rather than being influenced by individuals expressing dissatisfaction with areas of the furry arts they personally don’t like.

===Misinformation===

Many people misunderstand the fandom due to a lack of non-prejudicial information being available. In many cases, the first things outsiders see of the fandom is sensationalistic [[List of media links|fiction on TV shows]]. Others may take note of the adult themed art on the net and assume this is the whole point of the fandom, never realizing what a aged and respectable genre the fandom is built around.

===Sexuality===

The free atmosphere of tolerance in the furry community makes it far more likely for members to be open about their sexual orientation. This has spawned the misconception that the majority of the fandom is gay. However, surveys and practical thinking dispel this theory as unlikely. It is far more likely that those fans of a standard heterosexual nature feel no need to talk about their sexuality or seek understanding of it. Thus, discussion of alternative sexuality would naturally be more visible.

Confessions of more unusual sexuality and lifestyle have also been noted in the furry community, and though the majority of furry fans will attempt to be tolerant, certain sexual practices will stretch the tolerance of certain furry fans to the breaking point.

In particular, discussion of [[bestiality]] is a trigger for angry debate within the community. Many insist that absolute tolerance must be absolute, while others resent the association of the fandom with a practice that is not only illegal in many places, but is considered by many to be a form of animal abuse. Animal abuse being something you would naturally expect would not go down well among a virtual society that is, for the most part, naturally sympathetic towards animals. Hence, bestiality is anything but an uncontested aspect of the furry community, as certain furry hate groups are prone to claim.

Another practice that sparks controversy from within the fandom itself is [[plushophilia]]. Though plushophilia is generally harmless in any physical sense, being confronted with it may trigger a protective reaction in a furry fan who collects plushies as treasured mementos of beloved characters. In a sense, sexualizing plushies may strike at the very heart of what endears many fans to the furry phenomenon.

===Fringe segments of the community===

Just about anyone with any kind of interest that can somehow be tied to furry can set up a new neighborhood in the furry community for that interest. Some of the more controversial fringe neighborhoods include Baby Furs, who are interested in furry child characters, and Nazi Furs, who are interested in furry World War 2 characters. For some reason, the furries who create these neighborhoods have a tendency to give them names that sound worse than the actual intent, and thus may generate prejudice or attract the wrong kind of attention.

===Furry hate groups===

Furry hate groups have been created that ridicule the fandom at every opportunity and continue the spread of various types of misinformation, largely based on overplaying activities that exist in the fringe areas of the community and have no direct relationship to the fandom.

It is the general assertion of fans that these hate groups are mistaken in their assumption that furry fandom is all about sexualizing animal characters and animal related fetishes. It has also been confessed by certain furry haters that they attack furry fandom, not out of any belief that the furry fandom is any worse than other fandoms in these respects, but rather because it is much easier to get an entertaining reaction out of furries than it is to get a reaction out of [[trekkies]] or [[otaku]].

Thus, the anti-furry movement exists largely for entertainment value and should be taken with a grain of salt. Furries may even be seen to play along with furry hate groups, as some furries insist that it is important to maintain a sense of humor about such things. Indeed, there is hardly a fandom in existence that does not parody and laugh at its own idiosyncrasies and stereotypes.

===Erotic furry art===

If one looks on games like Starfox and movies like Over The Hedge as the main furry genre, and the erotic art coming out of the community as a parody of the main genre, a direct parallel to anime and hentai can be seen. As well as a parallel with the general fantasy genre and erotic fantasy art. The major difference being that the output of furry titles by major companies is relatively small when compared to the output of other genres.

Thus it is easy to mistake the mature art aspect of furry fandom for being more prominent than in other fandoms. When, in reality, the amount of erotic content coming out of the furry community pales in comparison to the anime/manga erotic output, which is much better organized and even supported by the main industry.

Anime fans enjoy the availability of endless hours of erotic animation created by professional companies, and even the erotic manga comics created by anime fans display a level of professionalism that furry artists can not even begin to aspire to. Yet, this tends to not be a problem for anime fandom, as the high output of non-erotic anime keeps the erotic subgenre in perspective as parody. While with furry fandom, it is highly likely that the first output of the fandom an outsider will see will be something of an erotic nature or sexual humor art.

===Self criticism===

The furry community also is sometimes criticized by its own for being too tolerant of various things, especially the over visibility of controversial fetishes.

Particularly for those who are only in the community because of an interest in furry cartoons, it may be found painful that the community feels free to associate them with things that seem completely unrelated to a fandom for furry characters.

Other furries will then turn on those who claim not to want to be associated with every controversial element in the community and accuse them of being a detriment to the stability of the community, often accompanied with accusations of Nazi behavior or being a [[Burned Fur]].

Over the years many furries have left the fandom in a state of grief over such controversies and disputes.

===Unsympathetic media===

In years past, the only value the mainstream media has seen in furry fandom has been over emphasis on the fetishists and lifestylers within the community. Many of those who were interviewed for such media portrayals claim they were deliberately misquoted. As a result, misunderstanding of the nature of the fandom has been widespread. However, this appears to be changing, as less sensational media sources are starting to take note of the community, which are more inclined to see interest in the fandom aspect. <ref>[http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/9383594/detail.html WTEA Pittsburgh Coverage Of Anthrocon] - example of more favorable press coverage.</ref>

===Furry politics===

As with any type of community, even a virtual one, political issues will arise and certain people will champion them, attempting to attain a measure of power and control over the rest of the community. However, the community is seldom able to be united on any single issue. And most attempts to force change fall flat.

Political topics in the community can revolve around pushing tolerance for controversial segments of the community, people trying to put limits on the genre celebrated by the fandom, and those who wish to completely separate the furry community from any relationship with the mainstream entertainment industry.

A typical example of furry politics is the attempt to draw a distinction between a “furry comic” created by self professed members of the fandom, and a traditional “funny animal comic,” created by someone who has not acknowledged a connection to the fandom. This type of political ploy may cause a lot of heated debate, but in the end there is no artistic difference between the two, and furry fans rarely stop to ask an artist’s affiliations before enjoying his work.

===Creativity beyond the furry genre===

Some creative members of the community create works that are not furry of nature. 2 The Ranting Gryphon creates rants on real world politics and the state of human society. A number of furry musical groups produce music without furry subject matter. Some furry online radio stations play popular music that rarely has furry subject matter. And some amateur film makers in the fandom create films that have no visible furry themes.

This sometimes brings the community unexpected positive attention. Though it further confuses people as to just what the furry fandom is supposed to be about.

== References ==
<references />

== See also ==

* The [[history of the fandom]]
* [[What is Furry?]] - explanation of the word "Furry"

==External links==

* [http://www.perrirhoades.furtopia.org/Furry.html A Historical And Cultural Commentary On The Object Of Furry Fandom] — A furry author examines the history of the furry genre and fandom
* [http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/niven/142/profiles/pro46.html# Funny Animal Comics] — An explanation of anthropomorphic animals as a genre
* [http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/index.html PeterCat's Furry InfoPage] — Repository for FAQs, lists, periodic postings
* [http://www.flayrah.com/ Flayrah Furry News Portal] — Current news of interest to Furry Fandom
* [http://www.vexen.co.uk/human/furry.html The Furry Subculture] — Information on furry fandom along with links to various pages
* [http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html The Sociology of Furry Fandom] written and researched by [[David J. Rust]]; a member of both SF Fandom and Furry Fandom

[[Category:Terms]]

Meet the "Furries"

2006-07-02T23:04:21Z

SleepAtWork:

[[Image:Meetfurries.jpg|300px|thumb|Newspaper article from [[CYD]]]]

'''Meet the "Furries"''' is an article about [[furries]] which appeared in the fictional Oregon Free-Times on August 10, 2005. The article describes the banning of a baseball team's [[tiger]] [[mascot]] after a child discovered inappropriate pictures of furries on the internet. It was later revealed on January 27, 2006 by [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] to be a hoax.

The town Richmond, Oregon is listed as a ghost town. [http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/or/richmond.html]

The newspaper article has been listed on the site [[Wikipedia:pervscan|pervscan.com]], which gathers news articles. It also is in [[Encyclopedia Dramatica]].

{{stub}}

== External links ==

* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=90&more=1 Internet Discovery Leads to Mascot Ban] at [[CYD]]

[[Category:Hoaxes]]

Meet the "Furries"

2006-07-02T23:04:05Z

SleepAtWork: more info

[[Image:Meetfurries.jpg|300px|thumb|Newspaper article from [[CYD]]]]

'''Meet the "Furries"''' is an article about [[furries]] which appeared in the fictional Oregon Free-Times on August 10, 2005. The article describes the banning of a baseball team's [[tiger]] [[mascot]] after a child discovered inappropriate pictures of furries on the internet. It was later revealed on January 27, 2006 by [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] to be a hoax.

The town Richmond, Oregon is listed as a ghost town. [http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/or/richmond.html]

This article has been listed on the site [[Wikipedia:pervscan|pervscan.com]], which gathers news articles. It also is in [[Encyclopedia Dramatica]].

{{stub}}

== External links ==

* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=90&more=1 Internet Discovery Leads to Mascot Ban] at [[CYD]]

[[Category:Hoaxes]]

WikiFur:Furpile

2006-07-02T10:15:10Z

SleepAtWork: /* 2006 */ I can't find a needed / requested articles section.

WikiFur's '''[[furpile]]''' is a great way to get the attention of editors to a page that you think needs it, whether that page is currently good in most areas but needs improving, is little more than a stub, or doesn't even exist yet! Each item in the furpile is posted on the front page on the specified day.

== Adding to the furpile ==

To add a page to the furpile, simply click one of the red links below and insert the link to the article(s) that you wish to see improved (or perhaps created), in the format that you want it to be shown (usually '''bold'''). There is no limit on the number of pages you can list, and you can list any particular page up to once a week if you feel it still needs improving - please don't list an article that's already scheduled to be shown, though!

You can also list categories or WikiFur pages if you feel they need improvement. What will '''you''' add to the furpile?

'''Note''': If you wish to add a page ''yourself'', just put the name into the search box, click Go, and then click the red link.

== Furpile entries ==
The list of articles that appeared on the Furpile from its inception on 3 Jan 2006 through the end of May 2006 may be seen at the [[WikiFur:Furpile Archive|Furpile Archive]].

=== 2006 ===
==== July 2006 ====
* 1 July: Needed: article on this: http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=90&more=1#more90

==== June 2006 ====

* 1 June: {{Template:Furpile/1 June, 2006}}
* 2 June: {{Template:Furpile/2 June, 2006}}
* 3 June: {{Template:Furpile/3 June, 2006}}
* 4 June: {{Template:Furpile/4 June, 2006}}
* 5 June: {{Template:Furpile/5 June, 2006}}
* 6 June: {{Template:Furpile/6 June, 2006}}
* 7 June: {{Template:Furpile/7 June, 2006}}
* 8 June: {{Template:Furpile/8 June, 2006}}
* 9 June: {{Template:Furpile/9 June, 2006}}
* 10 June: {{Template:Furpile/10 June, 2006}}
* 11 June: {{Template:Furpile/11 June, 2006}}
* 12 June: {{Template:Furpile/12 June, 2006}}
* 13 June: {{Template:Furpile/13 June, 2006}}
* 14 June: {{Template:Furpile/14 June, 2006}}
* 15 June: {{Template:Furpile/15 June, 2006}}
* 16 June: {{Template:Furpile/16 June, 2006}}
* 17 June: {{Template:Furpile/17 June, 2006}}
* 18 June: {{Template:Furpile/18 June, 2006}}
* 19 June: {{Template:Furpile/19 June, 2006}}
* 20 June: {{Template:Furpile/20 June, 2006}}
* 21 June: {{Template:Furpile/21 June, 2006}}
* 22 June: {{Template:Furpile/22 June, 2006}}
* 23 June: {{Template:Furpile/23 June, 2006}}
* 24 June: {{Template:Furpile/24 June, 2006}}
* 25 June: {{Template:Furpile/25 June, 2006}}
* 26 June: {{Template:Furpile/26 June, 2006}}
* 27 June: {{Template:Furpile/27 June, 2006}}
* 28 June: {{Template:Furpile/28 June, 2006}}
* 29 June: {{Template:Furpile/29 June, 2006}}
* 30 June: {{Template:Furpile/30 June, 2006}}

==== July 2006 ====

* 1 July: '''[[PureYiff]]'''
* 2 July: '''[[Ian R. Soulfox]]'''
* 3 July: {{Template:Furpile/3 July, 2006}}
* 4 July: {{Template:Furpile/4 July, 2006}}
* 5 July: {{Template:Furpile/5 July, 2006}}
* 6 July: {{Template:Furpile/6 July, 2006}}
* 7 July: {{Template:Furpile/7 July, 2006}}
* 8 July: {{Template:Furpile/8 July, 2006}}
* 9 July: {{Template:Furpile/9 July, 2006}}
* 10 July: {{Template:Furpile/10 July, 2006}}
* 11 July: {{Template:Furpile/11 July, 2006}}
* 12 July: {{Template:Furpile/12 July, 2006}}
* 13 July: {{Template:Furpile/13 July, 2006}}
* 14 July: {{Template:Furpile/14 July, 2006}}
* 15 July: {{Template:Furpile/15 July, 2006}}
* 16 July: {{Template:Furpile/16 July, 2006}}
* 17 July: {{Template:Furpile/17 July, 2006}}
* 18 July: {{Template:Furpile/18 July, 2006}}
* 19 July: {{Template:Furpile/19 July, 2006}}
* 20 July: {{Template:Furpile/20 July, 2006}}
* 21 July: {{Template:Furpile/21 July, 2006}}
* 22 July: {{Template:Furpile/22 July, 2006}}
* 23 July: {{Template:Furpile/23 July, 2006}}
* 24 July: {{Template:Furpile/24 July, 2006}}
* 25 July: {{Template:Furpile/25 July, 2006}}
* 26 July: {{Template:Furpile/26 July, 2006}}
* 27 July: {{Template:Furpile/27 July, 2006}}
* 28 July: {{Template:Furpile/28 July, 2006}}
* 29 July: {{Template:Furpile/29 July, 2006}}
* 30 July: {{Template:Furpile/30 July, 2006}}
* 30 July: {{Template:Furpile/30 July, 2006}}

[[Category:WikiFur featured content]]

Help:Registration

2006-07-01T09:13:54Z

SleepAtWork: +reason

{{HelpTOC}}

You can do an awful lot on WikiFur without even logging in - so why should you?

Well, here's a few reasons ([[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|check out Wikipedia's page]] for more details):

* You gain the ability to:
** [[Special:Upload|upload images and sound files]]
** add pages to your personal ''[[Special:Watchlist|watchlist]]'' and easily check them for updates (now with [[WikiFur:News/Email notification installed|email notification]])
** mark edits as "minor"
** set various editing and viewing [[Special:Preferences|preferences]]
* You get your own user page where people can contact you (optionally by email) and where you can talk about your contributions and interests
* People are more likely to respect your edits and opinions, especially where there are disagreements - it's easier to build up a reputation as a named user
* You can keep your IP address secret (note: this won't help you avoid bans)
* Only named users can become [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrators]]
* Your account can be used on all the wikia wikis.

[[Category:WikiFur help|Registration]]

User talk:GreenReaper

2006-07-01T09:06:37Z

SleepAtWork: What was the killhamster article here?

{{User talk:GreenReaper/Header}}
== Hi you ... ==
Thanks for your welcome!
I only joined 'cause somebody made a wiki page about me ... and in some kind it was wrong. x_x;
So that's all.

--[[User:Meeko|Meeko]] 01:40, 25 Mai 2006 (UTC)

== Hi, GreenReaper ==

This is partly a test to see if I've got this editor figured out before I do anything important with it. I notice someone put in an entry for yours truly (in fact that's how I wandered in - I was checking old Other Suns links which led to Nicolai's entry which led to mine) which I may update later; at least I suppose the fact that I was Den Mother of ConFurence for years and am now holding that position in CaliFur is at interesting as anything already there. Also an excuse for putting in a few Ursa Major links inasmuch as I maintain the Recommended List.

Speaking of which, I got your note suggesting the addition of WikiFur to the Recommended Anthropomorphics list for this year - makes sense, though I'll have to discuss where to put it with the rest of the committee. We're currently counting nominations for this year's Ursa Major ballot.
--[[User:Yealurowluro|Yealurowluro]] 00:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

:Glad you got my note! I wasn't entirely sure if I should suggest it myself, but I figured it's something that's worth reading. :-)

:It looks like you have the wiki editing figured out. Please do contribute to any articles you find lacking, and good luck figuring out those nominations. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:04, 5 April 2006 (PDT)

== Moving assistance. ==

Hey GreenReaper,

Thanks for the help moving the page for my listing. I was woundering if it should have been moved over as you did, but didn't have time IRL to send a message. The dire warning kinda steared me off. (I figured I would mess around with my own page before messing up some one elses =)

:No problem! A lot of people start off in the User: namespace, as that's where you would normally do it on (e.g.) Wikipedia.

Let me know if I'm misplacing anyother articles so we can keep the database as consistant as possable! (Or if you have any other suggestions)

:I'm sure I or another contributor will let you know should that be the case. :-)

I hope the format of the post is accaptable. I wrote the thing in third person as if I was writing about someone else. Thanks again - PG

:That was fine. Feel free to edit your User: page if you want to say something from first-person persepective in addition to that which is already there (but don't feel you have to - most people are just fine with what's on the page about them already). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thank you for the kind welcome. Though I've been active on Wikipedia forever (and I'm admin there), I've only just discovered wikifur today. I'm happy to help out in any area that needs it, and I've already added stubs for [[Wild Life]] and [[Wildlifers]]! [[User:Starblind|Andrew Lenahan]] - Starblind 15:43, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

:Excellent . . . *scoops up some cover pics for those* --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 23:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

==View counts==
I've noticed that the view counts in [[:Special:Popularpages]] have not updated at least since last Thursday on several articles I've been following, even though I've viewed some of those articles myself during that time. I've verified this from two different computers and used a couple of other tricks to make reasonably certain it's not a browser cache issue. What gives?

Edit: There are also several hundred articles that currently show 0 views.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 14:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

:Yes. I had a chat with the admins and apparently they had to discontinue popular pages updating due to server loads. We can get the same sort of information from the google analytics stats, so it's no ''great'' loss, although it is a pity that people can't access that without talking to me first.

:As this makes the page rather useless, I've removed the link in the main page header and added in links to the article and user talk pages instead. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 16:29, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

== Re my WikiFur entry ==

Just noticed that you had stuck in an unwritten link from the Kay Shapero entry for the Anthropomorphic Literature and Arts Association. I had deliberately NOT put a link there, because the ALAA exists to produce the Recommended List and present the Ursa Major awards, both of which have links right after the reference. So I figured it would be superfluous. What do you think? I could probably write an entry, but it'd only be a couple of lines long and probably wouldn't contain much you can't find out from the other two links. --[[User:Yealurowluro|Yealurowluro]]

:(I'm not GR, but we never have a shortage of opinions around here! :-) Actually, even the small amount of information you mention would be useful, if only to define the parametes of the organization and to show that it is independent of any other organization out there (when I first saw mention of ALAA, I erroneously conflated it with [[AAE]], which is a different beastie entirely). ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 00:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

:That's basically why I put it in there (also because I rememebered it was linked in [[Ursa Major Awards]]). If you really don't think it should have an entry, take it out, but as Duncan mentions, [[Anthropomorphic Arts and Education]] seems to do well enough. It's a short page, but it gives a link to the organization, and as it is a separate page it can be put into [[:Category:Organizations]] which helps us keep a tab on all such organizations. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

==To Stub or Not to Stub?==
Is there a guideline as to when a short article (which just doesn't have much to say) doesn't need to be tagged as a stub? 1000 bytes, etc.? Wouldn't stop anyone from dropping in to make changes anyway. Just curious. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

:I usually go by the rule of whether I feel there's anything that ought to be added (but that I'm not sure about or don't know or don't feel like putting in right now). -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:02, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

:The general rule is "if there is probably something that could be added fairly easily by someone who doesn't know much about the topic" (say with a few minutes of google searching) then it is a stub. If not, then it is not a stub, although if you can describe it entirely in a couple of lines, it is probably a strong candidate for merging with another article. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:04, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

==Categorization?==
Thanks for the quick feedback! I was looking through WikiFur's [[:Help:Furry_Book_of_Style|style guide]] and had another question: Are there any guidelines on category order at the end of articles? I was going through alphabetically, but it might be helpful to define this in the style guide if there's a prefered order to doing this. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 19:10, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

:Technically any order is fine. In practice, for articles about people I've tended to do People and then subcategories of People (note that we only do this category + subcategory thing with people so as to get a full listing in that category), and then their location and year of birth/death. In general I would put the most important or relevant category first, but that's just a personal style. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

::What you describe is what I've been doing, GreenReaper. I described it in some detail over at [[:Category_talk:Root]]. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 21:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

== Requesting page protection ==

How do I go about requesting my page to be locked so that only myself and administrators can edit it? --[[Banrai|Banrai]]

:You just did. I'm at work right now so I can't really look that closely to ensure it's appropriate, but I will later this evening.

:Be aware that "your page" is [[User:Banrai]]. [[Banrai]] is "the page about you". As such it is expected to be reasonably complete, and I do find it odd that there is no mention or reference to the actions mentioned in a certain LiveJournal entry that comes up when searching for your name. What's past is past, and it is important not to dwell on it, but it does deserve recording so that people understand how things ended up as they are today (and so we don't get complaints on the talk page from people who think things are being hidden). I will try and see about that tonight as well. I'm not a concerned party other than ensuring the accuracy of the article, and I don't particularly want to raise any drama about it, so fear not - it'll be brief.

:Oh, and just something I noticed glancing over the page - you only need to link to other articles the ''first'' time a linkable name comes up, not every time. It's assumed that people will already have clicked on the link if they want to go to it. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 15:04, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

::I added a small blurb about... that. But feel free to edit it as you see fit. It's a very personal preferance that the article itself not actually be linked, since it IS over and done, but.. yeah, you're the mod. I also went back in and fixed the massive-linking, so it looks a little cleaner now. ;3 --[[User:Banrai|Banrai]]

:::I've not linked it. Instead, I spent a while reading various sources, then tried to give a summary of your actions, the context behind them - part of which was already evident in previous sections - and the response from others, without turning it into a duplicate of that post (or another [[Sibe]]). I think it says all that needs to be said about that without taking up too much of the article. If people really want to know more, I'm sure they can find out for themselves - but I suspect for most it is enough that they will not feel the need to do so.

:::As for your request, the article seems a good one as it stands. I will post a notice on the talk page, and unless there is significant dissent from the WikiFur community I will enable the page protection within a day or so. If at a later point you decide that you no longer want the page protected then any admin can help you remove it at request. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:35, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

== Repeated vandalism and blocking ==

I've just blocked an IP for what I now see is repeated vandalism. ([http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:70.180.173.165 Three incidents so far].)
Do we have an understood point where we block for longer periods, or infinitely? -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 03:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

:I would say go up by one category per repeated offense - hours, days, weeks, months, years (or forever). If all they do is vandalism feel free to skip a step. We're not Wikipedia, we've not really got time to deal with trouble again and again. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Vandal IPs found

69.210.142.84 and
68.202.53.196
They were found posting images of the vandalism in /b/

== Questions about Des Lee? ==

Hey there! Thought I'd drop a line and see if I could answer any questions you might have about Desiree. I set up a basic entry for her awhile ago, but I'd noticed you had a question or two concerning her on my page. Anyway, if I can be of assistance, let me know! Thanks!

:Note [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Jim_Hardiman&curid=3935&diff=53558&oldid=50672 my recent edit] and comment on the [[Talk:Jim Hardiman|talk page]], but I'll carry over here and say that I think the question was about those quote-marks around "friend". -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 20:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

:Yep, replied on the talk page. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:24, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

== Edit patrols ==

It's about this time that I think bringing back the "patrol this edit" marker may be a good idea. It just has to be explained clearly: "These markers are for admin to make rounds of patrols through the various edits," and so forth. I'd also like to suggest a proxy banlist which is shared across Wikia. That way, once a proxy is confirmed, all wikis have the option of automatically banning it. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 06:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
:I would support the creation of a shared proxy banlist with all of Wikia. Is there a feature for this currently in mediawiki or would it have to be added through some sort of module? -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 06:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:This might be a good idea. We are getting a lot of edits - certainly more than I manage to have the time to look at, let alone edit. We can probably try enabling it for a time.

:I think there is actually a proxy blacklist. We may be using a service, in which case it probably doesn't get everything. JasonR on the live chat would be the perosn to talk to about that (or he's available via technical at wikia dot com, or the wikia-l mailing list, or the wikia LiveJournal). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks for the Welcome! ==

I was figuring it would come at some point or another. Very much appreciated. :) [[User:Bastique|Bastique]] 13:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

== Database error on page move ==

I was attempting to move [[Art Show]] over its redirect [[Art show]] (note the caps - one is the name of a show, the other is a type), and I received this error:

:A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:
::<tt>UPDATE `wikicities`.`gpage` SET page_namespace = '0',page_title = 'Art_show' WHERE page_namespace = '0' AND page_title = 'Art_Show'</tt>
:from within function "<tt>Database::update</tt>". MySQL returned error "<tt>1062: Duplicate entry 'furry-0-Art_show' for key 2 (paris.wikia.com)</tt>".

Would you mind passing this on to the Wikia folks? Looks like the parser is missing the routine which checks for a page/redirect/whatever under the name being moved to. Thanks. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 10:13, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

== Hi Back. ==

This is a bit awkward, but I think this is the right way to do it. I'm looking over a variety of articles to see what I can add to. I lengthened Ken Fletcher's piece a little -- he deserves more, but it's hard to do him justice, even knowing him fairly well. (Ken is modest to the point of humility.) Kevin Duane's piece broke me up. I could add 10,000 words, but wouldn't know where to start. And do I want to make him out a clown, a villain, a well-intentioned schlemiel, or just a guy who got a lot of bad breaks? Then there was Steve Martin. Another perplexing case. I had to add a bit more detail to the "controversy" section, that put the customs debacle in a somewhat better light.

Ah... I wonder what other delights await? --[[User:Taral Wayne|Taral Wayne]]

:It can be hard. Pages [[Sibe|can and have]] been written about [[Banrai#Past disputes|past disputes]], but in the end the actual situation can usually be boiled down to just a few paragraphs written in a fairly dry tone. If in doubt, just add the facts, and try to make sure you don't leave out any facts in a way that could be viewed as biased by not giving reasonable coverage of all sides of the story. If you think you're up to writing a more lengthy piece, and you think it is appropriate for the article concerned, [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages|be bold]] and do so. Wikipedia has [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Neutrality|lots of advice]] on how to go about this.

:Whatever you do decide to add, thank you for taking the time to do so. WikiFur relies on the contributions of those who know the full history of events, and in many cases there are only a few people in the world who do. Hopefully this project will go some way towards ensuring that the history of the fandom doesn't fade away, as I think that would be a shame.

:Oh, and note that you can sign comments on talk pages with <nowiki>~~~~, or just ~~~</nowiki> if you want to do it without the date. There's no need to do so on the main article pages, as they're intended to be community work anyway (and a full history of contributions is kept in the history tab if it's required). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 10:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

::I think I'll just leave the Kevin Duane item as it is. While there's a hundred times more, it isn't really that important, and what's there is probably impartial enough. Though I doubt very much Kevin would own up to much on the negative side of the ledger.

::By the way, what would keep him from editing out everything he didn't like, and painting a glowing picture of himself?

:::Nothing. However, he'd probably find such edits mysteriously changed back a few minutes later. Some people around here tend to watch [[Special:Recentchanges|recent changes]] like a hawk and can very quickly pick up on editors who are trying to modify history, especially their own. There are [[WikiFur:Personal information|established procedures]] for requesting the removal of certain items of personal information. Blanking or removing information without comment do not count, and won't have the desired effect. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 10:20, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Hello ==

Hi, thanks for the welcome! I just have to say that I'm very impressed by the speed at which the articles are updated :)

--[[User:MrZebra|MrZebra]] 10:16, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

:Glad you like it! We aim to please. ;-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 10:20, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks for the assistance ==

Thank you for loading a higher-resolution picture for me. I appreciate that. And thanks for the welcome as well. :)

--[[Equestrian]]

== Asking your permission ==

Would it be okay with you to upload [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Taxidermy.gif this image] to wikifur? It is an animated gif of scenes from the CSI furry episode. It's 1.8MB so I'm obviously not going to risk spending the long time uploading it if it gets deleted and I'm hoping somebody else will do it. If that is not acceptable, would a link to it in the CSI article be allowed? There's no pressure if you don't agree with these. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 05:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

:I probably wouldn't delete it. It is not the best pictoral representation of the whole show, though. The animation tells a story, but it is not the whole story about the show, just as the show does not tell the whole story about the fandom. Its [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Taxidermy purpose on ED] was to promote [[fursecution]] (to whit, the conversion of furries into trophies and rugs) and the selection of passages in the animation is limited to those supporting that argument. I believe that a small selection of screen captures from various points in the show added by use of the <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag (see [[The Forest]] for an example) might be a better addition to the article.

:Another thing to consider - if it takes you a long time to upload it, it will take a long time for many of our contributors to download it as well. 2Mb pages are not really a good idea. This suggests that a link to the animation would be more appropriate, with a note of the file size for those on modems. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

::About size, I see so many websites designed where the only way you can view them is flash. I don't know what the deal with that. The real size getter is YTMNDs where each one is huge and often a copy of several other ones with just a tiny change. You know you're actually a pretty cool person (and probably same for others here) compared to the wikipedia furry community where any mention of furries that isn't in their "furries never yiff, or dress in custumes more than bunny ears, and all furries are heterosexual, and there are the same number of male and female furries" propoganda means a witchhunt and I think it's one of the reasons why encyclopedia dramatica has all the anti-furry stuff--and the site says somewhere it's the denial of some furry aspects that get them made fun of----that can be compared to how the site doesn't make fun of star wars / star trek nerds with more than a small amount. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 10:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Flash is not the most ideal system for web user interfaces (although it does have enviable compatability compared to things like JavaScript). I won't go so far as to say that Flash has no place. It is a good system for the delivery of multimedia content. We tend to link to that rather than host it, though. :-)

:::It is true that people are sometimes overly defensive. However, at the same time, some have good reason - there [http://forums.hatersonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=164 really are] "furry haters" for which it is a hobby to just go out there and spread the message that furries suck. Most of them don't actually ''know'' anything about the fandom, participate in any of the events, or contribute anything - they're just having fun putting other people down. I'm more than willing to accept criticism from people like [[Nothingkat]], who at least knows what he's talking about. And . . . well, I've not heard people make the above assertions before. I'm sure a lot of people say "not all furries yiff, not all dress up in fursuits, not all are gay and furries are not all male", but there's a big difference between that and utter denial.

:::As for Wikipedia, you have to remember that the purpose of their project (as ours) is to '''make an encyclopedia''', ''not'' to make fun of people. The [[Wikipedia:furry fandom|furry fandom]] article already has five whole paragraphs on sexual activities. I think that gives readers a fairly good idea of the extent of sexual content in the fandom. When you get [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Furry_lifestyler&diff=prev&oldid=51228054 edits] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Furry_Wikipedians&diff=prev&oldid=51070460 like] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Furry_fandom&diff=prev&oldid=50860121 these], it is very easy to see why a lot of them get reverted.

:::ED would have furry stuff on it regardless, I am sure. After all, we already own [[LiveJournal]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 01:32, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

==Thanks!==
Thank you for your barnstar award, I appreciate your recognition. I have found in recent weeks just how difficult it is to start a Wika, and it's always nice to have someone appreciate the work. While I still need to read up on the goals and concept of this Wiki, I'm a big comic book fan and can hopefully help with some new content. You can contact me at my [http://oc.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Xtreme680 talk page] at [http://oc.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page The O.C. Wikia]. - [[User:Xtreme680|Xtreme680]] 09:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

==My page got vandalized...==
Apparently it happened today even, suprisinly. Some user going by the name of Clambake....*sigh*. And it has to be somebody with access to aby.com or yiffstar.com, because that's the ONLY place I've posted the picture used with even a slight bit of public access. --[[User:lucashoal|lucashoal]] 3:40 PM, May 9 2006 (EST)
:I will say that the staff already reverted the edits made to your page. The image, though I have not seen it, was already deleted. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]([[User talk:Markus|talk]]) 23:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
::Indeed. [[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan]] was pretty quick on the ball!

::I find it odd that you were able to revert their work so quickly - according to [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Luca_Shoal&curid=651&action=history the history], just four minutes passed between the picture being uploaded and your reversion. How did you know that they had posted the picture there? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I just decided to log in today to see if anyone had left me a note, or made any changes to my page. And seeing the picture, well... It was a matter of luck really. I know it seems....fishy, but I honestly had no way at all of knowing this edit had taken place.
:::As for the picture? It was a picture of me, not just Luca, but me in the real world. Specifically, it was one taken at a babyfur party, and in a pink dress.
:::Thank you though for everything ^^. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 9:03 PM, May 9 2006 (EST)

::::'''*grins*''' - well, you were fortunate, then. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Interesting article on this whole problem in [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/17/technology/17wiki.html The New York Times] (Growing Wikipedia Revises Its 'Anyone Can Edit' Policy) -- although the article is about "big" Wikipedia the principles and concerns probably still apply. --[[User:Auliya|Auliya]]

:Yes. We have the same features here, and have used them, though they too affect only a small proportion of our pages. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 15:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

== Transformation ==

I'm reasonably sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Transformation&diff=prev&oldid=57531 this] is actually correct, if badly formatted and perhaps not completely relevant to this wiki. See [http://metamedia.stanford.edu/traumwerk/index.php/More%20Dragons%20in%20Northumbria here] for the rhyme. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

:I did get a indeed get a positive hit for the rhyme, but Google turned up nothing relevant for Lanelet, Elidia, Zaikhoeven, or "Duncan Frasier" and "Robert Lambe". I tried several different spelling variants and still came up with nothing. Now, I'm willing to grant that Google is not actually the sum of ''all'' knowledge, but the lack of hits and the near-unreadability of the edit makes me suspicious. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 18:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

::Duncan Frasier is cited as the author of the rhyme in the above link. Robert Lambe is likely to be [http://www.exploreberwick.co.uk/ArtsInBerwick/Legends/3_03.htm this guy].

::There does seem to be some confusion in online sources about who wrote the item and when it was written. Don't suppose you know any medieval historians? :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I've done some further research and I think I see the problem: it's written in the arcane and byzantine languange of ''academese'', a language I'm afraid I lost my fluency in years ago (and besides, I only ever spoke technical academese - I think it relates to Liberal Arts academese like Classical Latin to Vulgate Latin :-) I'll warrant that it was a valid edit, but written so impenetrably I would question its value. I've found a couple of useful links that might help; I'll probably poke at it a bit more tonight.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 19:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

: 1. I am able to translate this. It's pretty much just a load of academic-paper-filling bull, and says very little of relevancy to our wiki.
: 2. Here, lemme take a whack at rebuilding that section.
: -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 23:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

Thank you for fixing my first upload :D I just joined and I'm still trying to get used to it all. I hope I atleast put THIS post in the correct place.

:'''*grins*''' - yep, you just need to sign it! You can use <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> to do that (or <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> if you don't want to put the date). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

== Howloween Template ==

Are there any plans to create a Howloween convention template? Howloween is a convention held in British Columbia, during Late October : [http://www.howloween.org Howloween 2006 Website]

:If you want one, just copy the contents of any existing convention templates to [[Template:User Howloween]] and change accordingly, then create the appropriate category and make it a subcategory of [[:Category:Wikifurries]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

::Thank you so much. I shall try that. ^_^ --{{UT|Seamora}}

== Terms with Multiple Definitions ==

What is commonly done with terms that have more than one definition? Do they have separate pages, and if so , how does one do this?--{{UT|Seamora}}

:Short answer - it depends! Long answer follows . . .

:If the terms are related, but with differing nuances, then you might discuss them on the same page. For example, [[yiff]] has many meanings, but they are all related to a reasonably close degree, so they are all described on the same page. In general, you can tell "reasonably close" by the categories - if separate meanings would all fall under the same category then you would probably discuss them together (except people, who always have different articles).

:Some terms have numerous unrelated meanings. In this case we divide it into separate pages with a qualifier in lowercase [unless a proper name] and inside parenthesis, and then create what is called a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation page]] for people who link to the term without parentheses. The page should have the <tt><nowiki>{{disambig}}</nowiki></tt> tag at the bottom. If another topic has the name within it, and a shorterned form might conflict, it is given the full title but also included in the disambiguation page.

:You can see this at [[The Bestiary]], which links to [[The Bestiary (playing cards)]] and [[The Bestiary (comic)]] (which we know exists, just hasn't yet been written about) but also to ''[[The Bestiary's Terrie Smith Does Art Special]]''.

:We may also make an indented, italic link at the top of the pages if there is possible confusion or the other article is somehow relevant, something like this (for a person called "Delight"):

:<tt><nowiki>":''This article is about the [[:Category:People|person]]. For the chocolate bar, see <nowiki>[[Delight (chocolate bar)]].''</nowiki></tt> (or: <tt><nowiki>"There is also a [[Delight (chocolate)|chocolate bar called Delight]].")</nowiki></tt>

:In the case where one thing is clearly the more usual or "official" term, but there is another term that should have a different article, like [[skunk]] or [[Eurofurence]], then the general term is used without parentheses and the other term(s) have parentheses or are otherwise made different. We use the above method to link between them.

:In rare cases, it may also be appropriate to add a parentheses even if there is currently no article at the non-parentheses term. This is done where there might be confusion about what the article should be about. For example, ''[[Furre!]]'' has links to [[Persona Play (Furre!)]] and [[Roleplay (Furre!)]]. This is because the term Roleplay has a special meaning in the context of ''Furre!'', and so it should not link to the main [[role-playing]] article, which has a redirect from Roleplay. For consistency, Persona Play has the same qualifier, even though there is not likely to be another article called Persona Play as it is at term that is specific to Furcadia/Furre!.

:Deciding what to do in a particular case is sometimes tricky, but it is usually simple once you have done it a few times. Hope the above helps! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

== Thank you! ==

Heya GreenReaper!!

The page looks great, hun! Thanks for editing it a bit for me! There are also more WikiFur pages about me including Xelaros and Spirit Creations. I see that you guys don't have a page up for Maned Wolves which I would like to create. Thanks for your help! Give me suggestions any time!

Inali Ke'aloha

== Maned wolf page up! ==

Heya, just wanted to let you know that I created a page about maned wolves since there wasn't one. It could use some editing, such as a contents box and the pictures off to the side. Thanks! --[[User:InaliKealoha|Inali]]

:Well, it looks like you figured all that out! I moved it to [[Maned Wolf]] because it is a proper name of a species. The contents box will automatically appear if you have four headers in the article. If you do not (or to move it), you can make it appear by adding <nowiki>__TOC__</nowiki> wherever you want. I sometimes put this inside a div tag that is set to float to the right. You can also hide it with <nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki>.

:One question ''I'' have, though - do you have permission from the people who made those pictures to put them on this site? While I appreciate that you wish to improve the articles, it is not enough to just state who owns the copyright of an image - if you do not have explicit permission (either by having asked them or through a blanket license or copyright wavier), we cannot display the images. That's what copyright means, after all . . . the right to make copies. Both the [http://www.arkgallery.org/ Ark Gallery] and Kenneth W. Fink/Root Resources sources appear to be non-free in this respect (indeed, the Ark Gallery seems to have a specific note at the bottom saying that images are not for reproduction elsewhere).

:Oh, and one last thing - on talk pages, it's easier to know who's talking if you sign your name at the end. You can do this by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, or just <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> to do so without adding the date and time. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I will email them and ask permission. If I can't get it from them, I'll ask some others until I get written permission. Where do I post that I have written permission when I get it? Thanks!

[[User:InaliKealoha|InaliKealoha]] 05:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:You should put the permission on the image information page, the one that comes up when you click on the image. You can edit it just like any other page. If you fail to gain permission for those images, let myself or another administrator know, and we will delete it from the WikiFur image store. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

::I very strongly feel that we should delete the images; they can be uploaded again if permission is given. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 16:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Then do so. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Done. Thanks for the confirmation. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 23:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

== hi ==

"Girl's amateur use of makeup by applying too much and her voice make are evidence she is a teenager below the age of eighteen." That wasn't meant as personal, though. It was more a Sherlock Holmes style detective work. I just want to be clear it was not my intention. I probably wrote it wrong. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 14:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

:It just seemed . . . well, like something you'd post on LiveJournal rather than in an encyclopedia, in much the same way as you get anti-furries taking pictures of fat people at cons and going "hey, look, aren't furries fat!" - maybe that wasn't your intention, but it was the vibe I got from your words. Her ''own'' words make her look bad enough as it is without pointing out her use of makeup.

:A secondary consideration is that page is intended to be just a list of links rather than an in-depth discussion of them. If you really want to write up the details (which would probably include details from both videos), you could make an article on it and then link to it, as with the other articles linked from the media links page. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

:: Hmmm... you have an odd idea of copying the threads of talk and putting it on both talk pages. Well back to the topic, I also forgot the eyebrows were unplucked (I just wanted to write that down somewhere) as giving evidence that she was a minor. I think I'll put likely minor in the article. Umm.. I don't know if it's worthy of an article itself. It mostly is just a webcam video and then speaking of the vanity fair article. It would be different if it went through the things produced by actual furries, like her reaction to furry pornography art, but I think the video looks like little effort was put into it, and the humor was mostly the behavior of the girl herself. Encyclopedia Dramatica and some of the TV spots for instance do put some effort into their work. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 15:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I can just see that sequel: "Valley Girl, Furry Porn". Nuts and berries, indeed!

:::I actually think there's an opportunity to do a ''good'' video on furries and put it up there. The question would be whether or not anyone would go around with a videocamera at (say) Anthrocon and film it, and whether or not people would agree to its distribution. Maybe if it was done by someone already respected in the community.

::::Speaking for Anthrocon, I can tell you that our [http://www.anthrocon.org/rules-conduct Rules of Conduct] prohibit "broadcasting" of any video taken at the convention, which includes posting it online. --[[User:Dmuth|Giza]] 19:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::. . . without permission. I was thinking of one that would be done with permission. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::Based on my experience, furries at cons get very nervous when there is a camera rolling, due to past bad experiences. I wouldn't recommend holding your breath on getting permission to broadcast anything that's filmed. :-/ --[[User:Dmuth|Giza]] 19:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Alas! On that general topic, it might be nice to do some kind of "WikiFur Documentary" thing. Maybe we could start with topics like "acting out in [[fursuit]]" or "making your first [[tail]]" and work up to tricky topics like "attending a furry convention". :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Do you mean having documentation here on WikiFur, or elsewhere? If it's here on WikiFur, would such an article still be considered "encyclopedic"? --[[User:Dmuth|Giza]] 21:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::I believe that there is certainly room on WikiFur for material that is created by a particular person or group of people, something like "RandomVulpine's guide to making furry feet". Some use their own websites for such material, but if people want to put them up on WikiFur then I think we should be open to that. These should naturally be clearly tagged with a template similar to the current [[:Template:personal-article|personal articles]] one, and should be placed in the User: namespace, or possibly a separate namespace designed for the purpose - Tutorial:, say. They could be linked to from regular articles, though it might be good to make a separately-headed section for them to separate them from the regular links that you'd get in ''See also''.

:::I tend to copy talk because it's easier for other people to follow that way. I also archive my talk now and then, which makes it harder for people trying to follow the other side of conversation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Off subject, when the game Spore comes out (a design evolution), I expect it may have something for furry gaming. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 15:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:I agree, though [[Second Life]] seems to have grabbing most of the virtual furry world for now. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

== Testing... ==

I notice one or two articles about me and my comics say they need improving. My question is this: How much is too much? I'd like to do my part without overdoing it, ya know?

:--[[User:GraveyardGreg|Graveyard Greg]]

:It's hard to do too much. I guess if you found yourself stretching for something to say, then it might be time to stop. Of course, I have a [[GreenReaper|fairly short article]], but then I don't have much to say about myself, as I've not had a long history in the furry fandom. [[Somewolf]] has a rather longer one. Certainly, comics can be and have been covered in significant depth. The ''[[Gaming Guardians]]'' article is a good idea of the minimum length that gives a good coverage of the key aspects of the topic, enough that it was featured, but it would certainly be possible to add to it without compromising that.

:It is possible to go much farther, of course. For example, Wikipedia has a very extensive article on ''[[Wikipedia:Kevin and Kell|Kevin and Kell]]''. That would be unusual to see here (probably the closest is ''[[Dan and Mab's Furry Adventures]]'', and the plot is hardly covered there), but if people want to go that far on just about any topic it is welcome. We have many relatively short articles through happenstance, not choice. It's not like we're going to run out of paper, after all. :-)

:The perfect article tells people everything they want to know about a topic. For some topics, this can be a lot. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

== Species and characters categories ==

I think all of us will agree that having subcategories for species, and for characters of those species, is a good thing, up to a certain point. But I'm concerned that we may be getting a little carried away with it. Perhaps we're not to the point yet where we've overdone it and need to backpedal on some of the categories that have been created, but I think we're getting close to that point in some areas, and that it would be a good idea to stop and think about how far we want to go with this.

What do the rest of you think? More species/character categories, or is it time to rein it in? --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 21:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:I like to think of it as setting the framework for future growth. Although if we start using Latin names, then I think we've gone too far. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 22:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

:I look at it this way: If I'm a casual reader and I'm interested in, let's say, wolf characters. I click on the Wolf characters category and I see a whole bunch of names, plus (in this instance) sub-categories for Artic Wolf characters, Werewolves, and Wolf-Hybrid characters. Am I going to click on the subcategories to find the one or two listings beneath each entry, or ignore them and use the large main list? From a usability standpoint, I'm not sure I see the usefulness of breaking things down to the point where it's only two or three entries in a category.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 11:54, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

== Hiya! ==

Hey there! Thanks for the warm greet. I didn't exactly get to finish last night due to work issues, AND the fact I wasn't completely sure what I was doing (lol) Looks like someone was kind enough to get the basics started for me anyway :-)

As I learn a little more, I'd really like to be more active in the Wiki community so hopefully you'll see a little more of me ;-)

Regards
-=Wulfsige=-

==Thanks!==
Thanks man, this is the best Wiki EVER! - MegaKitsune

== Reply ==

' I guess you found your way here from the creatures wiki'

Sort of, pretty long story. I think I found them both at relatively the same time, when I started using wikipedia.

Thanks for the friendly welcomes! --[[User:Listeel|Listeel]] 14:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

== Edit buttons ==

How do you set up an edit button like Wikifur and the Creatures wiki have? I'm also a member at the Sporewiki and want to contribute a button like that for them {{Unsigned|Listeel}}

:Check out the [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]] page, in particular the section starting:

:''/* Create more space to top and left of the section Edit links and put norn in it */''

:If you copy this and adjust it for your wiki (you will need to change the URL to match the URL of an image uploaded at your wiki or somewhere else) then it should work. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

== Infobox question ==

I've been trying to make an Infobox for [[A Fox in the Works]] page with little luck, something like what Wikipedia has for TV series (ie [[Wikipedia:Babylon_5]]. I'm really don't know what I'm doing, and it's something that would probably work better as a template so it can be used for comics and other furry story series.

I can't find any help on making an infobox like this, and what I try to do comes up more then a bit fragged. Any help would be greatly appreciated. --[[User:Fox Cutter|Fox Cutter]] 05:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

:Probably the best place to start is [[Wikipedia:Template:Infobox|Wikipedia's sample infobox template]], which is relatively simple as they go. The one you mentioned, [[Wikipedia:Template:Infobox Television|Template:Infobox Television]] is indeed hideously complex, in part because it relies on expressions (which are not yet available at Wikia, so it will give hideously mangled results).

:Start simple. Just copy the template to a blank Template: page here (perhaps [[Template:Infobox]]!), and then try it out on a page. Try modifying various things, trying it out in the preview. Have a look at [[Wikipedia:Help:Template|Wikipedia's template help]]. It is not, unfortunately, very clear, but it starts off with some useful information. Our [[WikiFur:Templates|templates section]] has various ones that definitely work here, which you could copy from as well. If you get stuck, ask for help on a discussion page, saying what you want it to do, and someone will probably lend a hand (and if not, prod me :-). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:00, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

== Wikipedia.org Extinctioners page being considered for deletion ==

I'm so upset right now because my Extinctioners page at Wikipedia.org is being considered for deletion, if I try and update the one here, will it also be deleted, please let me know in my talk(if it works) --[[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]]

:On the contrary, we would be glad to have your contributions, as long as the copyright status of the images is satisfactory (either GFDL or another open form of licensing, or permission for use on WikiFur). As you can see on [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Extinctioners|Wikipedia's deletion proposal]], their reasoning is that ''[[Extinctioners]]'' is not sufficiently notable in the general world for an article. WikiFur is all about the furry fandom, so that's not applicable here. Just remember that as with Wikipedia articles are community efforts - after all, you copied the initial article from here - and you should do fine. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

== Cleanup? ==

Well, I've finished both the Extinctioners page and the individual character pages but some of them have a clean up not at the top, how can you clean up what little (in some cases) is there? --[[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]]

:Perhaps they were referring to the manner in which the text was phrased? For example, it might have been written in first-person, when third-person is more appropriate for an encyclopedia. It might also be that formatting was non-standard or that the article was not correctly categorized (we really need to get specific templates for these, right now cleanup is used for everything). You can always ask the person who put the tag on the article what their precise reasoning was. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== Horizontal or vertical? ==

Hey listen, I'm not being a prud but someone named Dmuth has edited some of my character section (I'm not reporting the editing itself) but he caused the multiple pics the stack ontop each other in the right hand side of the screen, I've fixed mos of them, you can see the original ones he did in the jistory section, please let me know what you think of the matter, alright, thank you. --[[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]]

:I personally think they look better side by side ''in that particular case''. Those pictures happen to be particularly tall, and the fact that there is little text to go with it means that a better use of the space is to have them in a row. Most WikiFur articles have a lot more text in relation to the numbers of pictures, which is why the convention is to have them at the side, or in a combination of side pictures and a gallery as you can see in [[The Forest]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== Andorozon pics ==

The Creator of the Andorozon comics has sent me an e-mail giving me permission to use his picsm how do I forward you the e-mail to get the pics licenced, the pics up already were drawn by Shawntae Howard and were licenced but Ken Singshow is going to send his own pics, what do I do? --[[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]]

:I would suggest that you just attach a copy of the email giving permission to the [[Talk:Andorozon|discussion page]] of the [[Andorozon]] article. That way everyone who looks at the article. You could also add a note on the image upload description that links to that page (something like <nowiki>[[Talk:Andorozon|permission information]]</nowiki>).

:Also, when writing messages on talk pages please sign your name by putting <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> at the end so we know who's talking and so who to reply to. It's possible to find that information out by looking at the edit history, but it's a lot easier if it's right there. Thanks! :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 15:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Heya. I've noticed that the text of Maxwell Manx (Copy Cat) looks to have come from http://www.geocities.com/extinctioners/profile_copycat.html and I assume that's similarly the case for at least some of the other character articles. Could you clarify that for me? I gather we have permission to use the character images here, but I don't remember reference to text descriptions, and I'm ever anxious about copyright concerns. -- Sine 00:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying but believe me, I have been given permission from Shawntae Howard himself to use both his pics and text in this and other related articles pertaining to Extinctioners, listen could you give me your e-mail address so I can forward his e-mail of him giving permission or should I talk about this with GreenReaper what should I do?RVDDP2501 01:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest copying the e-mail to the talk page of the Extinctioners article; I've seen similar things here previously. You could certainly check with GreenReaper to confirm the procedure.
It's great that we have all this Extinctioners material to work with, and that you've been so active with it. -- Sine 02:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

(forgive me if you have already said something on this matter, my memory isn't al that good) so EXACTLY what must I do?

:All we need on the talk page (or on the Licensing section of the image pages) is something to show that a) you have asked to use the author's copyrighted works, on this website or on Wikipedia (which has similar requirements) and b) that he has said yes. This would probably be your initial request to him, and his reply. This should not a general agreement that you can write a wiki page about the topic (you could do that without asking), but something that makes it clear that you intend to use some related parts of his copyrighted works in the pages - as you say, "both his pics and text". That is the thing that requires permission, because it is his right to allow copies of his work on this site (or not to allow them, as he sees fit).

:If you have previously asked for specific permission to use parts of his works rather than just writing ''about'' them, then that's fine - just put a copy of that on the page. If not, you should do so. You could point him to the wiki pages that have already been written (including some of the pictures) and ask him if that kind of use is OK. You could also invite him to look at the [http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Copyrights copyrights page], and/or to contact us directly if he has questions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== Forum ==

Good timezone. The [[Forum:Index|forums]] are all set up and ready to go. Let me know if you want help changing anything. I added a [[Help:Forums|help page]] but it's a bit basic at the moment, because I'm still figuring out how things work and what we need to know! It will be good to see how it goes. Later -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[Wikia:User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 13:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

==Hey, man==

Thanks for the welcome and comments. I got tagged for cleanup for my article, but I'm not exactly sure where I should start looking to clean it up. Any thoughts? --[[User:Réizàr]]

:You'd have to ask [[User:DuncanDaHusky]] about that, since he tagged it. However, this passage does spring to mind as one example:

::''His most noticeable feature is the moon-and-star tattoo on the back of his left hand, but when asked for a meaning, the most one can expect of the enigmatic weretiger is a sliht shrug, not out of rudeness, but because he has yet to find an actual meaning for it beyond something he drew one day in a fit of boredom.''

:It's an encyclopedia article, not a MUCK character description. It could just as easily be something like "His most noticeable feature is the moon-and-star tattoo on the back of his left hand, which has no inherent meaning." There's no call to be mysterious about it. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::Ah, okay. Odd though; that's been there for a while, and I was referring to myself IRL. I'll look it over though, and think of a way to simplify it. Thanks.
--[[Réizàr]]

:::That's just an example of something that popped out at me. He might have been looking at at something else. Given the size of WikiFur, not all people will have read all articles, and so they may come across something that they disagree with that they'd also have disagreed with beforehand. They may also have a threshold before they actually do something about it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

::::Yeah, it's pretty big here. I'll skim over it a few more times and ask Duncan what else he thinks needs to be cleaned up. One of these days I'll get it right. Hah.

== Furpile ==

I've noticed that sometimes the [[WikiFur:Furpile|Furpile]] link goes unupdated, so I've been choosing articles for it. Essentially I've been clicking "Random page" until something suitable turns up. I'm only trying to keep it from going empty, so I won't update it further than a day ahead. So if you want to nominate things you still can. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 04:06, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:Thanks! As noted on the page, you can choose as many as you like at once, as long as you don't repeat stuff that's coming up or was recently requested. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks from the newbie ==
I just want to say thanks for correcting my spelling errors and welcoming me on my first page. Very appriciated! ~[[Kuzzy]]

== Galciv ==

I asked you some questions on that wiki. I don't know if you check it often, so I will note it here. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm you are faster on checking encyclopedia dramatica than here. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 22:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:Patience. I get watchlist emails everywhere, I just sometimes don't get around to pressing "Save page" until I have had time to give a proper response. It's only just past breakfast here. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 22:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
:: Hmm watchlists can send emails. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 23:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::Watchlists can do everything! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Flyers ==

I forgot your room number already. But I trust that you found my note about the flyers in the meetup page. I even tried looking for you for an hour. That was rather fun. Spot the norn in the furpile. And without a cell number, I couldn't directly contact you.

Anyway. See you at the meetup! ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]([[User talk:Markus|talk]]) 07:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

:Don't have a cell phone! But yes, we did indeed meetup, so that was OK. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 01:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

== Recent Changes Error? ==

Recent changes has the following line in it: "Below are the last 50 changes in the last 7 days, as of $3." I don't think the $3 is intentional, is it? [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]

:No, you're right - there's been something up with recent changes since the most recent upgrade. There's a bug filed for it on Wikia, it's just rather low-priority right now, especially since it's probably something that will have to be fixed in the main MediaWiki source code tree anyway. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

== Brillliant Right! ==

http://www.truechristian.com/furriesa.html
Interesting! Just wanted to see what you guys think.

:It's good to see such an authoritative and popular site covering the topic! Shame about the colour scheme, but eh, what can you do? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 17:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

::How much of that site did you look at? Not exactly the most flattering portayal of furries. If anything, I'm glad they chose a color scheme that makes it look like an amateur rant. --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 18:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

:::I was being sarcastic. :-) I guess I should have included the ;-) . . . --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

::::Hmm, okay. My bad. --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 19:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

== Hello! ==

Thanks for the warm welcome! ^-^ I thought this was the best way to display our music to the furry community! I'll be sure to ask you if i need help.
Thanks again,
Ether

== Extinctioners at Answers.com ==

Hey GreenReaper, RVDDP2501 here, I just found an Extinctioners page (flawed) at Answer.com I told them about the problems and changes they could make, it looks like an original version I had at wikipedia.org (I guess they hadn't checked for updated versions) I also told them about Wikifurs version, they haven't replied yet, so what do you think - http://www.answers.com/topic/extinctioners, I mean I can't believe how my pages are spreading, you know. - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 19:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

:They are apt to taking the contents of Wikipedia, aren't they? They do that for a lot of other articles as well - it is an automated system. I doubt they will add WikiFur to their list, though it's always a possibility. They will probably update from Wikipedia over the next few months. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

yeah, your probably right, anyways if you have any ideas, suggestion, etc. about making the page(s) better, please let me know, thanks - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 20:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for the great welcome. If there is anything that I can do to help, feel free to ask.

~Nevar

== regards ==

Ghear maidth agus :)
thank you for the welcome. I, too, joined since someone created a wiki of me and my fiance. I figured I needed to correct our wikis and make them as unbiased as possible.

== Hi. ==

Thanks for welcoming me. I myself am a [[wizard]] at [[Frontier Galaxy MUCK]] so I figured if nothing else, it'd be my duty to correct that '''that''' little entry. Though I'm blindly stumbling through Wiki's system presently, glad I'm only editing and not adding articles, need to read a bit more before I try something like that. (And I would if I didn't have homework for a test, heh!) --[[User:Autolycus|Autolycus]]

:Well, it's great that you had the time to fix it up - and should you find any more later, feel free to try your hand at making articles yourself. If it looks like you need help I'm sure one of our regular contributors will step in and lend a hand. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Extinctioners improvement ==

Hey GreenReaper, thanks a whole lot with the list improvement, seriously, thanks, if there is any other ideas on how to make the page(s) better, by all mean, do what you think is right. - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 02:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

:Of course. In this case I just thought it could be a little more compact before I linked it as our comic of the week. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

"comic of the week"? really!, this is just about the comic or the page as well? I don't quite fully understand what you mean? please let me know, thanks - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 02:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

:Look at the bottom left of the front page. Our comics of the week can be based on various criteria, but in this case I featured it because of the extensive coverage on WikiFur. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

oh, ok, I see it, sorry about that, listen I wanna ask you opinion and/or permission on something, I was planning on creating a page for a Extinctioners character called Krystin [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/26978911/ deviantart.com] but I was not sure if you and/or Wikifur would approve of the pic of the character which IS a bit mature, I did an edit though in which I put a black back covering the "chest area", do you want me to upload the censored pic without making the caracter page for you to look at and decide as to whether or not it would be appropriate to make the page with the pic? - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 02:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

:Go ahead and upload the original, if it is appropriate for the character. [[WikiFur:What WikiFur is not#WikiFur is not censored for the protection of minors|WikiFur is not censored for minors]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I just uploaded the pic of Krystin, the pic name is [[:Image:Extinctioners_cast_Krystin.jpg]], please let me know what you think and if I should go ahead with this character's page, thank you - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 03:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

:Seems reasonable enough. Go for it! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I though I would do the right thing and discuss this with you first about the pic before I did something that would be disapproved of by you and others at wikifur, I do not like to make mistakes, ok - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 03:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Listen, thanks a whole lot for removing the nude pic of Krystin, I got an e-mail from Shawntae Howard saying he would prefer I not use that pic of Krystin due to it being so mature, he said he would send me another one to use in time, so until then, I uploaded the other version of the same pic only now with a black bar covering her chest, ok, thanks for removing those pics, I couldn't figure out how to do it. (God, I hope I haven't pissed him off) - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 22:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:No problem. For future reference, you can always overwrite an image with a newer one by uploading a file and specifying the same destination filename, although deleting it entirely requires an administrator (and it is currently an irreversible operation). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 22:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I though that was what i had done, I guess I messed up, I'm sorry to do that to you - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 22:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think you did, too - I saw the original had a black bar on it, but perhaps you didn't notice, because soon after you uploaded a (Censored) version as well. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]

:I think I know what happened - you uploaded it, but didn't force a refresh by going directly to the image file (not the image page) and pressing Ctrl+F5. Your computer still thought that the image was valid, as it had it cached, so it showed the uncensored version. It's often a problem for new wiki founders who add logos, as it looks like it's not changing, even though it is. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 22:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Any ways, long story short, thanks for removing the pic and I hope I don't make the same mistake again, thank you. - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 22:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

== (sic) ==

oh, my bad, man. i didn't know. thanks for telling me :) by the way, that article, [[Wolfie]], isn't about me.
[[User:Wolfie|Wolfie]] 13:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

== Meep ==

So, uh, I like, decided to add stuff cuz people I knew/knew of weren't on here, and uh.... seems they think I put too much D8

I -was- careful to put only stuff I knew was publically visible, and I did add a bit more than I thought was needed, cuz I thought anyone concerned with privacy, like say other wiki contributors, would be like "Hmm maybe you should delete that" 
instead of suddenly "OMG stalkers! everywhere! nuuuuu!" o.o;
This really upset me cuz they're people I interact with at least on occasion, and I value their opinion, so having them think I'm crazy(er)... 
I didn't tell anyone cuz I wanted a "professional" distance, if they knew I was doing it... well, "the observer changes the observed".

And honestly, I didnt -try- that hard, maybe an hour on each person... after all it's '''wiki''' and can be edited later...
and I was mostly tryin to just sketch their persona since it's in their ART so much y'know ._.

Anyway I explained myself some on [[Talk:Seel Dingo|Seel's talk page]], because I want to make everyone as happy as possible.

PS- I'd be willing to have anything I do "depersonalized" but won't do it myself if it makes it look like I'm just covering my ass. Of course, yeah, it's a wiki and past changes can be viewed...

--[[User:BennuTeomabar|BennuTeomabar]] 16:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

:Don't worry about it. I think the invididual involved is being a little out of line. Basically they're complaining because you reposted some information that was publically available. It seems to me that their worldview is that nobody should be allowed to talk about anybody else. We don't subscribe to that view here. :-) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

== Wikifur news ==

I couldn't figure out how to add a news item. :/ I thought the passing of [[Peter S. Beagle]]'s mother (Peter being the author of The Last Unicorn) might be of note to some furry fans. I just received word from Beagle's newsletter and it pointed to this page ... http://www.conlanpress.com/html/rebecca_beagle.html --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]]

:To post a news item, you create the link to the template as you did (preferably in a preview first), then make the page that it links to, and add a link to that page to [[Template:Newsbar]] and the [[WikiFur:Community Central]] page.

:However, I would have to say that I would not really agree with posting it as news on WikiFur. Wikipedia used to have the somewhat pithy phrase "It's sad when people die, but Wikipedia is not the place to honor them," and I feel this is true for WikiFur as well. People (particularly the mothers and fathers of the older people in the fandom) die all the time.

:While the death of a person already relevant to WikiFur just for being in the fandom is a fact that should go on the the page about them, it is not site news. Moreover, all previous news items have been directly related to WikiFur. If it had been someone of major relevance to the fandom I might have thought differently - say, [[Uncle Kage]], or ''maybe'', at a stretch, [[Grandma Kage]] (who is relevant enough to have a page, but not much of one yet). However, we don't even have an entry on Peter yet, let alone his mother. We're not a furry news aggregator, and this doesn't really seem to count as furry news as much as a personal loss. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:08, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple edits ==

I really apologize for all the edits, I'm new to any sort of wiki, so I'm just trying to get it as perfect as possible XD --[[User:Nekonaru Letao|Nekonaru Letao]]

:It's no real problem. Perfection is an admirable goal to have. :-) Oh, one more tip - you can sign your name on talk pages with <nowiki>~~~, or ~~~~</nowiki> to get the date as well. It helps people reading to see who said what! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 01:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

== Minor Bug on Recent Changes page ==

Howdy! I just noticed a small bug on the Recent Changes page. At the top of the page (at least according my my preferences), it reads:

Below are the last 200 changes in the last 7 days, as of $3.

I'm thinking that that "$3" is a variable that isn't being called correctly. It's obviously a minor thing, but something I thought might be a quick fix if you've got the permissions.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 16:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah. It's been like that since we upgraded to 1.7 alpha. It's a known bug, but it was low priority for the Wikia guys. I'll have a chat with them and see if it's a quick fix. If not, it can be removed by editing [[MediaWiki:Rcnote]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

== Can you help? ==

On [[furluminati]], Spirou constantly vandalizes the article, but no matter what I put he reverts me back to his version (and he has not even corrected the grammar/spelling errors in it). I have tried and tried to please him, but I've seen his type and they just revert nonstop as they like--just like willy on wheels likes to move pages to "on wheels" and others like to blank pages, Spirou gets his vandalism high from reverting. I keep trying to please him, but obviously he is just out to cause trouble by revert vandalism. I have put hours and hours into fixing it up and he does not care. Spirou is not here to fix anything, he is just to harass me by reverting anything I do on the article, even fixing his grammar. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'm guessing GreenReaper is away right now. Have either of you heard of the [[Wikipedia:WP:3RR|three revert rule]] on Wikipedia? I think it can apply here on WikiFur too. I'll block for 24 hours if I see a violation of the three revert rule from either of you. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 03:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::Spirou will then just revert 3 times a day, but still vandalize. Also on wikipedia reverting vandalism doesn't count toward 3RR. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::I was away for a half-hour, but I am back right now. While the three revert rule is not a rule on WikiFur at this time, its rationale is sound. Page edits should not turn into revert wars. I am looking more carefully at the edits made to see what to suggest in this particular circumstance. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:::Spirou isn't trying to edit, just revert. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I ''said'', I'm looking. Patience, please. :-) I would also suggest that you focus on the edits, rather than the person behind them. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::His last edit was a revert again, but he changed some words and acted like it wasn't. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

You locked the article on Spirou's version and he's the cause. :( [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 04:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Page protection is used to prevent further edits while the situation is delt with. [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Protection policy#A temporary protection is used for:|It does not express]] a preference for the version that happens to be protected. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== What was the killhamster article here? ==

You said: "I would note that the article about "killhamster", whose article was used as a reference, was deleted, twice, for being totally full of nonsense added by himself and his friends."

I referenced his livejournal and the edit dispute in the LJ was talking about on ED. Umm... did he make an article on wikifur? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 09:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Anti-furries

2006-07-01T08:59:18Z

SleepAtWork: Question about definition

Corrected to account for [[Burned Fur]]'s non-status as an "anti-furry" group. They do not in fact meet any of the given criteria by which a group is in fact considered "anti-furry". In point of fact, Burned Furs constantly related serious concerns with the status of Furry Fandom's image, both in their individual correspondence and public statements. There exists no evidence to date to suggest that Burned Fur wanted to ban pornography from the fandom or take any steps to harm the fandom itself.

Burned Furs did not have a problem with the fandom, but instead with the public sexual conduct of a small minority of furry fans who nonetheless managed to obtain the majority of media coverage concerning the fandom as a whole. Many furry fans living alternative lifestyles interpreted the "Burned Fur Manifesto" to be an attack on their sexual preferences, and responded with accusations that the Burned Furs were everything from homophobes to neo-Nazis. The end result amounted to several years of vicious and ultimately pointless flamewars mounted on the newsgroup alt.fan.furry by proponents of both sides. --[[User:Calbeck|Calbeck]], 16 Dec 2005

:Reverted to the prior edit, as you are describing the initial intended idea of the formation of the group, not the quickly, disintegrating claustrof#@*! it finally ended being. And having being there during their time period, being friends with such members as MMM, almost incited by its initial goals, a frequent user of both their IRC channel plus message board, I can at-testify that, by the end of the experiment, they had, unfortunately, well earned their "anti-furry" wings. And no amount of rewrite will ever change that. Blame the people inside it that made this possible, they were in control of the wheel. As, now ironically, Michael “Gothtiger, MikeC” Campbell best put it: ''"What you connect yourself and your activities to can come back to haunt you"'' .[[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:58, 17 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== See for yourself ==
If you would ever take 5 minutes to actually read through CrushYiffDestroy, you dorks would learn that these people are indeed NOT anti-furry, as over 80% of the members ARE furries. Harsh criticism and poking fun at the fandom does not equal hating it.

:So the mocking and insults aren't meant to hurt anyone? Disrespecting a person's deeply thought and honestly held beliefs is just good, clean fun? Violating someone's privacy is a kindness? Hating furries is what gets you put on the list. It doesn't matter what you ''are'', but only what you ''do''. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 14:10, 13 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::So if I like Hostess brand fruit pies, but I make fun of all other brands of fruit pies for being of an inferior quality in my opinion, does that mean I hate ALL fruit pies regardless? Also, news flash: CYD gleans all of their "gossip" from publicly available websites and/or forums/communities. Posting private information to the intarweb does not make it private anymore, does it?

:::No, it's more like demanding that all the thousands of beers in the world be just like Bud Lite. I personally dislike a number of beers (and a handful of furries), but I don't go around bashing them just because they aren't to my taste. And in the particular instance to which I refer, CYD's "gossip" happened to revolve around a photograph which was not to be posted unaltered, and which ''was'' replaced with an altered version on the original site when the subjects of that photo discovered it a few hours after its original posting. Private citizens have a general expectation of remaining private in the US, and a photograph posted without the permission of the subjects can be considered a violation of that premise. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 23:44, 13 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::Someone else said: ''Posting private information to the intarweb does not make it private anymore, does it?''

::::I think the unnamed person who posted that does have a point. If someone posts on their website or LJ that they like humping watermelons (for example), they should not be surprised if people on other websites make fun of them for it. I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just saying everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And, AFAIK, the CrushYiffDestroy people keep their stuff to their *own* website. If they were going out and invading other forums that would be entirely different.

::::As for whether CYD should be listed on here, from reading the article, I guess the question is, do they find furry and/or any sexuality related to furry to be "repulsive"? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 00:45, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::::Certain aspects are repulsive to certain members. Beastiality is a pretty touchy subject for maybe half the forum, and a few seem honestly squicked by babyfurs. In general members just giggle madly at the absolute absurdity of the fandom - given the choice, most CYD members would keep the furry fandom just as it is today. If the fandom cleaned up, where would the lulz be? So no, they find furry and/or any sexuality related to furry to be "hilarious". Oh, there's more than a few practicing furries and artists among their number... perhaps you've heard of [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/MicahFennec/ MicahFennec], fiancee of [[The New Meat]]?

:::::Go ahead and keep it in the anti-furry category. Furries would probably prefer to keep all their critics in one box. --[[User:ShrikeWolf|the Shrike]] 02:32, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

=Reversion of edits by 71.193.172.79=
Reverted edit due to change of wording influencing percepted intent of anti-furs (bias was against). -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 09:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== Question about definition ==

Also I want to ask on [[Furs Against Furs]] and [[Burned Furs]] one was anti-furry and the other not, I asked and Spirou just labelled the other anti-fur. So I'm confused. Well in anti-furry it's vague on if it's a furry group that doesn't like furries or not. The two groups are there now recently because he added them, but I'm wondering about the term anti-furry. Maybe this, "''furries that practice regularly include the removal of furry media references ([[Sex2K|MTV]], [[CSI]], [[Drew Carey]], [[Vanity Fair]], and [[ER]]), the discrediting of relations of sexuality to the fandom, and/or the practicing the philosophies of [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. Like terms have been used to cite prevalence of these types of furries on places--most commonly wikipedia's furry categories, whereas they are not as common elsewhere. For example, such editors on wikipedia never would allow mention of [[Taurin and the Yiffing Machine]].''" kind of behavior in the quote a type of anti-furry? Maybe not? And would anti-furry be someone opposed to certain aspects of the fandom? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Furluminati

2006-06-30T09:58:03Z

SleepAtWork: /* Problems with recent editing */

I have never heard this term in use, and a Google search shows that the only mention of it is the Encyclopedia Dramatica article. Unless we're documenting their fictions now, I don't see a need for this article.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I don't know if I'd delete this article outright.. a google search does turn up a few references on other sites than encyclopedia dramatica. However this article should have more information regarding it's orgin on encyclopedia dramatica. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 13:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::They're only there because people have chosen it as a name for their user or LJ group, presumably because they are also members of ED. I don't see any actual use of the term ouside that. [http://furluminati.livejournal.com/ A LiveJournal] for the purpose of drama does not seem like it should count. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::While I still think that we should add some mention of its singular useage on encyclopedia dramatica I do have to agree with you on your points... If you feel that it should be deleted then I won't oppose. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 14:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I'm on the fence about this one. If we keep it, it could go in [[:Category:Fictional organizations|Fictional organizations]]. Not that I have pet categories or anything. <tt>;)</tt> -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 18:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::It's largely a wikipedia terming. I don't see things like sexuality removal of furry content on wikifur or other places. Wikipedia's furry fandom talk page has some people using the term "furspiracy". Daniel Brandt and others claim wikipedia has a lot of cabals (hiveminds, too). On ED, Ashe, who started the article was a furry ([http://killhamster.livejournal.com/2005/04/10/ evidence]) so that counts for something. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 19:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Barely holding on as a clique term, it could be left as an example of "invented/forced" words that certain anti-furries/non-furs wish to "attribute" to the fandom. Discussed enough on separate services to almost warrant its inclusion. "Furspiracy" is just somebody's mental hiccup, and brings nothing to the purpose of this entry. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::::It's not about the fandom. It's only about a small percentage of furries that are against sexuality. It's a made-up term, yes, but it relates to something real. Similar viewpoints are: [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::::I just revised it and I think it's much better than any previous edition. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I am curious why [[Burned Furs]] is categorized as anti-furry and [[Furs Against Furs]] is not. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

== Fluffing up the entry ==

The addition of the assumption of burned furs being anti-sexual in regard to furry media is actually wrong, as this notion itself was refuted by members of the movement itself.

Also, rewrites should be consistent, not a new, different one every-time, as it would put forth the image that the reviewer is not quite sure of his final thought on the mater. ''unsigned by Mr. Reverts Without Reason Many Times to His Own Version Riddled with Spelling Errors''

:[[Burned Furs]] says, "Burned Furs were intolerant of those people who walked up to television cameras and press microphones to declare that Furry Fandom essentially revolved around their own personal kinks." I've gone off what the article claims. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 22:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

:::On your defense, they were a few people inside the group that held such views, but the were the exception to the rule [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 22:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[[User:Spirou|Spirou]] stop vandalizing the article by reverting it no matter what I put. Your version even has spelling errors. Your editing is akin to page blanking, moving things to "on wheels," etc. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 00:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, after people expressed the validity of the term being on the Wiki, and a compromised rewrite was wrote down, you seem eager to bulldoze your POV of a term that its just a FICTIONAL word for a group that does NOT exist. Not every word in the fandom containing the word "fur" is a candidate for its inclusion on this wiki.

:The word is fictional, there's no cabal, it doesn't matter who entered the term on ED, and the Burned Fur movement was NOT an anti-furry porn group, as you keep re-entering on over and over. Research, then present your facts [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::That's YOUR version, not other people's. You can't even correct the spelling errors. I have tried many different forms of the article to please you but all you do is vandalize the article. There's one thing called fixing it, another called just reverting it like you have done. If there's POV it can be corrected. Reverting outright no matter what I try is vandalism. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Furluminati ==

Concerning "Furluminati":

A Google search reveals the following
-Entries on Livejournal on the following journals:
*Furiluminati
*Furlluminati
*Furluminatus
*Furluminato

Non, or criptic entries such as:
*hmm. This drama, it is way too small. It is not fit for us. We require larger things.
*Dance my Monkeys Dance

-An entry on the Encyclopedia Dramatica:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Furluminati Written by Killhamster.

-An entry to Killhamster's LJ account about the ED article:
http://killhamster.livejournal.com/324346.html

Wikipedia's "Furry_Fandom" entry brings forth the following about "Furluminati":

"Attention Members of the Furspiracy
Adding one (1) anti-fur link is not against wikipedia policy. There are no rules against showing a different perspective (furspective? Yuk Yuk!) on a topic."

That's all its found about Furluminati anywhere. Two days later, new entries are added to the wikipedia's discussion:

"Furspiracy? The "monolithic anti-furry conspiracy" http://softwarredownload.net/?rid=1000059or the "furluminati"? DyslexicEditor 00:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)"

"I find it confusing who anon editors are. There's this "fursecution vandal" that has a lot of IPs. I'm assuming that's not 85.210.107.2. Then there's a bunch of other ones. As for the whole POV stuff of the article, well Wikifur mentions some conspiracies both anti-furry and those based on furries. One is the furlumanti, a group that hides sexual stuff about furries. It then links to another site and the accussation resembles the one of a wikipedia cabal (stuff started by Daniel Brandt), but saying there's a smaller, furry version. DyslexicEditor 23:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)"

Data is written down as gospel, even with the article totally defining these groups as "Fictional." So, "Furluminati" is somebody "idea" of a "Fictional Cabal" of Furries. Article has been rewritten to bring to point out that such group does not exist. Research, then publish. My two cents on the matter [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Furry_fandom The "Furry Fandom" discussion page on Wikipedia, for reference [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Problems with recent editing ==

The editing of this article and collaboration on this talk page over the last 24 hours has been poor.

=== SleepAtWork ===
* Signed Spirou's talk contribution with a signature which was clearly intended to incite ill-will
* Failed to reference actual instances of the use of the term "furry illuminati" to back up his additions when they were challenced on this talk page (a link to ED is not what I would consider a valid reference, especially when it was already there)

=== Spirou ===
* Reverted to one revision five times in a period of twenty four hours
** Reversions were not to remove simple vandalism; they were to preserve a particular version of the document with a particular point of view
** Reversions failed to incorporate any relevant information provided by SleepAtWork, even including their non-opinion-based corrections to Spirou's preferred version of the work, until after SleepAtWork requested arbitration
** Reversions also failed to preserve the fact that others had a different opinion of what the word meant. If you think others would agree with your actions, you should encourage them to to take action in supporting your view.

There were problems on both side, however blocking attempts to make constructive edits by another contributor is, in my view, worse than adding information that may be unreferenced (especially as WikiFur has no specific rule requiring such). Spirou was personally [[User talk:Spirou#Noitaroproc|warned]] of the use of similar editing practices before. While I sympathize with the reasoning, I feel his actions were an inappropriate response to SleepAtWork's attempts to edit the page.

I am not going to block anyone over this now, as edit war blocks are intended to be preventative, not punitive. However, if I start seeing this pattern of editing again, articles will be locked sooner and people will start seeing blocks.

* '''SleepAtWork''': Please back up your claims with appropriate references when they are challenged in the future. A good reference will help you where any number of unreferenced edits will not.
* '''Spirou''': Please consider this a second warning over your exclusion of others from the editing process. I do not want to have cause to give a third one in the future.

I intend to '''delete''' this article within a day unless given a convincing reason for not doing so. The term is not commonly used among members of the furry fandom. It appears to be used - and only occasionally - by a small group of "LULZ"-seeking individuals (who may or may not profess to be members of the furry fandom), centered around the site where it was created. It has wasted enough of our time and generated enough ill will.

I would note that the article about "killhamster", whose article was used as a reference, was deleted, twice, for being totally full of nonsense added by himself and his friends. I do not believe this term to be much better. At best, if it is recorded on WikiFur at all, it should have a short summary in a list of similar terms used by groups opposed to the furry fandom to refer disparagingly to members of the fandom or their actions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed, upon further research it appears to be specific to ED and is causing much greif among contributors. I now fully support its deletion where once I was hesitant. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 05:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::Understood. Please be advised I tried to contact Admin help by email and IM regarding this matter, requesting a proper way to handle the situation. I didn't "continuously" revert, A) Because it's bad form, B) I was waiting for proper handling of this situation by an Admin between reverts. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:::OK. Remember, there is always more time on a Wiki (unless there really isn't, which is usually clear :-). There are very few situations where an edit needs to be made '''right now'''. If you have a question about something, it's important enough to take time over it. '''*grins*''' --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:The article isn't to me about the term or the ED article, but about a philosophy a small number of furs practice that generally centers on wikipedia. I think maybe this philosophy should be mentioned in a different article. I also missed the article about killhamster here--I put something from his livejournal but didn't know one was here (he's actually not noticable on ED, either). I'm not protesting any deletion but I am against:
Me: a bunch of editing 
Other editor: revert with no reason given 
Me: Ask on talk page 
Me: Received no answer after a long time. 
Me: Tries editing again. 
Other editor: revert with no reason given 
Me: Tries editing again. Is this better? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Huh? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: fixes spelling error 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Tries editing again. Is this better? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: What do you want? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: AAAAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Stop it 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Why 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Do 
Other editor: revert 
Me: You 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Keep 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Doing 
Other editor: revert 
Me: This 
Other editor: revert 
Me: ?!?!? 
Other editor: revert 
 
 

Also I want to ask on [[Furs Against Furs]] and [[Burned Furs]] one was anti-furry and the other not, I asked and Spirou just labelled the other anti-fur. I'm not criticizing him for this (just for ludicrous reverting). Well in anti-furry it's vague on if it's a furry group that doesn't like furries or not. The two groups are there now recently because he added them, but I'm wondering about the term anti-furry. Maybe this, "''furries that practice regularly include the removal of furry media references ([[Sex2K|MTV]], [[CSI]], [[Drew Carey]], [[Vanity Fair]], and [[ER]]), the discrediting of relations of sexuality to the fandom, and/or the practicing the philosophies of [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. Like terms have been used to cite prevalence of these types of furries on places--most commonly wikipedia's furry categories, whereas they are not as common elsewhere. For example, such editors on wikipedia never would allow mention of [[Taurin and the Yiffing Machine]].''" kind of thing is a type of anti-furry? Maybe not?

[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Killhamster did not start the furluminati article on ED, Ashe did. There's some story [http://killhamster.livejournal.com/2005/04/10/ here]. Also, this article Furlumanti may not be notable here, just, in my opinion the behavior associated with the concept is. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Plushies and Furries

2006-06-30T09:08:22Z

SleepAtWork:

'''Sex2K''' is a documentary series that appeared on [[Wikipedia:MTV|MTV]].

One episode, ''Plushies and Furries'', focused on the furry subculture. It followed one furry adventurer through [[Midwest Furfest]]. The episode was sex-based portrayal of the furry subculture that some argue is unfavorable, following quickly on the heels of ''[[Vanity Fair]]'''s article earlier in the year.

According to one source [http://pressedfur.coolfreepages.com/comments/anonymous-sex2k.html], Yote's mother already knew about his interest (one premise of the show is Yote revealing to his mother his interest) in the fandom and the scenes were shot a couple years before the vanity fair article came out.

It should be noted that the many of furs that participated in the side interviews were told their interviews would be used for a much different type of show, and the artists were similarly lied to by [[Rick Castro]], the producer. For example, [[Michael Higgs]] was told his art was going to be used in a special about up-and-coming comic artists.

{{Unreferenced}}

== External links ==
* [http://fursuit.timduru.org/dirlist/FursuitVideo/FurriesInTheNews/MTV2002/ MTV's Sex2K Fursuit Video]
* [http://pressedfur.coolfreepages.com/press/sex2k/ Transcript of ''Plushies and Furries''] at [[Pressed Fur]]

[[Category:Media coverage]]

Plushies and Furries

2006-06-30T09:07:03Z

SleepAtWork: added info from source

'''Sex2K''' is a documentary series that appeared on [[Wikipedia:MTV|MTV]].

One episode, ''Plushies and Furries'', focused on the furry subculture. It followed one furry adventurer through [[Midwest Furfest]]. The episode was sex-based portrayal of the furry subculture that some argue is unfavorable, following quickly on the heels of ''[[Vanity Fair]]'''s article earlier in the year.

According to one source [http://pressedfur.coolfreepages.com/comments/anonymous-sex2k.html], Yote's mother already knew about his interest in the fandom and the scenes were shot a couple years before the vanity fair article came out.

It should be noted that the many of furs that participated in the side interviews were told their interviews would be used for a much different type of show, and the artists were similarly lied to by [[Rick Castro]], the producer. For example, [[Michael Higgs]] was told his art was going to be used in a special about up-and-coming comic artists.

{{Unreferenced}}

== External links ==
* [http://fursuit.timduru.org/dirlist/FursuitVideo/FurriesInTheNews/MTV2002/ MTV's Sex2K Fursuit Video]
* [http://pressedfur.coolfreepages.com/press/sex2k/ Transcript of ''Plushies and Furries''] at [[Pressed Fur]]

[[Category:Media coverage]]

List of media links

2006-06-30T09:01:00Z

SleepAtWork: /* Media coverage/Television appearances */ somehow this was left out

<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
This is a '''list of direct links to media''' of particular prominence in the [[furry fandom]]. Detailed information about any particular topic should go on the relevant page.

==[[:Category:Animation|Animation]]==

* '''[[30-Second Bunnies Theatre]]''': [http://www.angryalien.com/ Flash animations]
* '''[[Another Day]]''': [http://www.superflashbros.net/movies/another.php Flash animations]
* '''[[B.Happy]]''': [http://www.cartoonnetwork.com.au/asp/webpt/o_bhappy.asp Flash animations]
* '''[[Badger Badger Badger]]''': [http://weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers/ Flash animation]
* '''[[Everyone Else Has Had More Sex Than Me]]''': [http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php Flash animation] - [http://www.top40db.net/Lyrics/?SongID=4202&By=Artist&Match=Tism lyrics]
* '''[[High Tail Hall]]''': [http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/182224 Flash animation] (still works despite notice)
* '''[[Kenya]]''' ([http://weebls-stuff.com/ home)]: [http://weebls-stuff.com/toons/kenya Flash animation] - [http://www.fridayparty.org/albums/Flash/Kenya1.mov live action version] ([http://chaz6.com/storage/fur/movies/Kenya1.mov mirror])
* '''[[Move Your Dead Bones]]''' ([http://www.ashido.com/ home]): [http://www.windwhip.net/~winged/archive/reanimator2.swf Flash animation] - '''see also''' [http://www.ashido.com/slalom/slalom4.html Slalomicide] ([http://pantransit.reptiles.org/media/slalom4.swf mirror])
* '''[[There she is!!]]''': ([http://www.sambakza.net/ home]): [http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/161181 original] ([http://www.flashplayer.com/music/theresheis.html mirror]) - [http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/224148 sequel] ([http://www.flashplayer.com/music/theresheis2.html mirror])
* '''[[Thomas Timberwolf]]''': [http://frededison.free.fr/ Flash animations]
* '''[[The Fox and the Mirrior]]''': [http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/236505 Flash animation] (the actual animation is in pencil)
* '''[[Wither - Human Condition]]''': [http://vasweb.vusd.k12.ca.us/audiostar/ambercoyote/] (Goth Furry Music Video)

==[[:Category:Media coverage|Media coverage]]/[[:Category:Television programs|Television]] appearances==
[[Image:ZoomanityGirlOnSeesaw.jpg|right|frame|It's not always easy being different . . .]]
* '''[[Anna in Wonderland]]''': ''[http://www.slycat.co.uk/index.php?id=6 Anna in Wonderland]''
* '''[[CSI]]''' ([[PafCon]]): ''[http://www.lildobe.net/furry/ Fur and Loathing]''
* '''''[[Curse of the Lion Men]]''''' ([[Wikipedia:Mega Man|Mega Man]]): ''[http://www.protoman.com/Cartoons/207-Curse_of_the_Lion_Men-Broadband.html#cartoon Curse of the Lion Men]''
* '''[[ER]]''': ''[http://www.lildobe.net/furry/er/ Fear of Commitment]''
* MTV's [[Sex2K]]
* [http://fursuit.timduru.org/dirlist/FursuitVideo/Commercials_Ads/SFZoogirlwithtail.mov San Francisco Zoomanity] - not ''intentionally'' a furry advert, but . . .

==[[:Category:Songs|Songs]] and [[:Category:Music|Music]]==

:''See the [[Furry Music Foundation]] [http://www.furrymusic.org/] for most songs.

* '''[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENpvNTRHoeQ Sabotage Tribute]''' Video (NC-17) - A homage to the [[Wikipedia:Beastie Boys|Beastie Boys]] music video ''Sabotage'' starring [[Fredryk Phox]], [[2]], and [[Kutztown Dragon]]

==[[:Category:Puppeteers|Puppeteering]]==

* '''[[Fluff & Such]]''' ([http://www.fluffandsuch.com/ home]): [http://www.fluffandsuch.com/what.shtml pawpet videos] - [http://www.cafepress.com/fluffandsuch/ shop]
* '''[[Funday PawPet Show]]''' ([http://pawpet.tv/ home]) - requires [http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/ QuickTime 7] installed, can then use RealPlayer/MPC/VideoLAN to play
** '''Show''': [http://pawpet.org/streams/fps-h264-hi.mov QT7 broadband] - [http://pawpet.org/streams/fps-h264-lo.mov QT7 dialup] - [http://pawpet.org/streams/34k-a.ram RealPlayer dialup] [airs 7PM-11PM EST Sundays]
** '''Replays''': [http://pawpet.org/streams/fundayhi.mov QT7 broadband] - [http://pawpet.org/streams/fundaylo.mov QT7 dialup]
** '''Other''': [http://www.pawpet.tv/2-pawpets.mp3 Pawpet song] by [[2]] - [http://www.pawpet.tv/pawpet-hampster.mp4 logo animation] by [[Rikki-Tik]] - [http://www.pawpet.tv/index.php?ircchat live chat] - [http://www.pawpet.tv/index.php?contributions donations]
* '''[[pawpet.de]]''' ([http://www.pawpet.de/pawpets.html home]): [http://www.pawpet.de/pawpets.html pawpet videos]
* '''[[Rapid T. Rabbit and Friends]]''' ([http://www.pawpet.org/rapidtrabbit home])
**[http://mnn.org/stream/ch57.asx Streams] Wednesdays 5:30-6PM EST - requires [http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/mp10/ Windows Media Player]
**Also run prior to the Funday PawPet Show, 6:30-7PM EST Sundays (see above)
* '''[[Southpaw Video Productions]]''': [http://www.clovertone.com/video/ pawpet videos]

==[[:Category:Radio|Radio]]==

===Live shows===

* '''[[FBC|Furry Broadcasting Corporation]]''' ([http://fbc.jaieproductions.com/dl/player/ home]): [http://fbc.jaieproductions.com/dl/listen.pls listen] [seven days, various hours]
* '''[[Radio Furtopia]]''' ([http://radio.furtopia.org/ home]): [http://radio.furtopia.org:8000/ listen] [7 days, most hours]
* '''[[Time Machine Show]]''' ([http://www.planetfurry.com/users/sonicblu/ home]): [http://radio.planetfurry.com:8000 dialup] - [http://radio.planetfurry.com:9000 broadband]

===Podcasts===

* '''[[The Freaky Furry Friends Show]]''': [http://freaky_furry_friends.podomatic.com/entry/2006-05-12T02_48_08-07_00 The Freaky Furry Friends Show]
* '''[[Umgotts Destroy]]''': The [[Umgotts Studios]] geekdom [[podcast]]. [http://www.umgotts.com Umgotts Studios]

===Archives===

* '''[[2 Sense]]''': Rebroadcasted on The Furry Broadcasting Corporation as the ''2 Sense Replay''
* '''[[Sabrina Online Radio Play]]''' ([http://www.psychomouse.phoenixcrash.net/sorp/ home]): [http://www.psychomouse.phoenixcrash.net/sorp/download.html main archive] [http://sabrinaonlinesource.furrynet.com/ mirror]
* '''[[Otter Island Radio Show]]''' ([http://www.virtualhermit.net/~ottercomics/otterisland/ home])
* '''[[Rendal's Ravings]]''' ([http://www.whatacrockof.com/archive.html home])

==Videos==
[[Image:KissingLikeAnimals.jpg|frame|right|Kissing to the tune of ''The Animal Song'']]
* '''''[[Beautiful]]''''' (music video by [[Wikipedia:Moby|Moby]]): ''[http://www.lildobe.net/furry/ Beautiful]''
* '''''[[The Animal Song]]''''' (music video by [[Wikipedia:Savage Garden|Savage Garden]]): ''[http://music.yahoo.com/track/1654641 The Animal Song]
* '''[[Further Confusion 2006]]''' ([[Big Blue Fox]]): [http://www.pupradio.net/FC/bbf-fc2006-divx.avi] [http://bbf.furhome.net/videos/bbf-fc2006-divx.avi] [http://furry.tv/FC/bbf-fc2006-divx.avi] [http://fursuit.timduru.org/dirlist/FursuitVideo/FurtherConfusion/FC2006/BBF_FC2006_Full_divx.avi] [http://duesseldorf.rcs-datensysteme.info/bbf-fc2006-divx.avi]
* '''"[[Sarah discovers the truth behind furries]]"'' (hoax/parody)': http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7843328046135961700
** Furry's Response to Mysterious Valley Girl: ''[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=931769406814427307 Furries in Action!]''
* '''''[[OMGWTF! Furries]]''''' (from [[Umgotts Studios]]) : [http://www.umgotts.com Umgotts Studios]

[[Category:Lists]]
[[Category:Culture]]

Plushies and Furries

2006-06-30T08:59:48Z

SleepAtWork: +link to movie

'''Sex2K''' is a documentary series that appeared on [[Wikipedia:MTV|MTV]].

One episode, ''Plushies and Furries'', focused on the furry subculture. It followed one furry adventurer through [[Midwest Furfest]]. The episode was another unfavorable portrayal of the furry subculture, following quickly on the heels of ''[[Vanity Fair]]'''s article earlier in the year.

It should be noted that the many of furs that participated in the side interviews were told their interviews would be used for a much different type of show, and the artists were similarly lied to by [[Rick Castro]], the producer. For example, [[Michael Higgs]] was told his art was going to be used in a special about up-and-coming comic artists.

{{Unreferenced}}

== External links ==
* [http://fursuit.timduru.org/dirlist/FursuitVideo/FurriesInTheNews/MTV2002/ MTV's Sex2K Fursuit Video]
* [http://pressedfur.coolfreepages.com/press/sex2k/ Transcript of ''Plushies and Furries''] at [[Pressed Fur]]

[[Category:Media coverage]]

Talk:Furluminati

2006-06-30T08:53:07Z

SleepAtWork: /* Problems with recent editing */

I have never heard this term in use, and a Google search shows that the only mention of it is the Encyclopedia Dramatica article. Unless we're documenting their fictions now, I don't see a need for this article.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I don't know if I'd delete this article outright.. a google search does turn up a few references on other sites than encyclopedia dramatica. However this article should have more information regarding it's orgin on encyclopedia dramatica. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 13:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::They're only there because people have chosen it as a name for their user or LJ group, presumably because they are also members of ED. I don't see any actual use of the term ouside that. [http://furluminati.livejournal.com/ A LiveJournal] for the purpose of drama does not seem like it should count. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::While I still think that we should add some mention of its singular useage on encyclopedia dramatica I do have to agree with you on your points... If you feel that it should be deleted then I won't oppose. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 14:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I'm on the fence about this one. If we keep it, it could go in [[:Category:Fictional organizations|Fictional organizations]]. Not that I have pet categories or anything. <tt>;)</tt> -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 18:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::It's largely a wikipedia terming. I don't see things like sexuality removal of furry content on wikifur or other places. Wikipedia's furry fandom talk page has some people using the term "furspiracy". Daniel Brandt and others claim wikipedia has a lot of cabals (hiveminds, too). On ED, Ashe, who started the article was a furry ([http://killhamster.livejournal.com/2005/04/10/ evidence]) so that counts for something. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 19:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Barely holding on as a clique term, it could be left as an example of "invented/forced" words that certain anti-furries/non-furs wish to "attribute" to the fandom. Discussed enough on separate services to almost warrant its inclusion. "Furspiracy" is just somebody's mental hiccup, and brings nothing to the purpose of this entry. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::::It's not about the fandom. It's only about a small percentage of furries that are against sexuality. It's a made-up term, yes, but it relates to something real. Similar viewpoints are: [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::::I just revised it and I think it's much better than any previous edition. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I am curious why [[Burned Furs]] is categorized as anti-furry and [[Furs Against Furs]] is not. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

== Fluffing up the entry ==

The addition of the assumption of burned furs being anti-sexual in regard to furry media is actually wrong, as this notion itself was refuted by members of the movement itself.

Also, rewrites should be consistent, not a new, different one every-time, as it would put forth the image that the reviewer is not quite sure of his final thought on the mater. ''unsigned by Mr. Reverts Without Reason Many Times to His Own Version Riddled with Spelling Errors''

:[[Burned Furs]] says, "Burned Furs were intolerant of those people who walked up to television cameras and press microphones to declare that Furry Fandom essentially revolved around their own personal kinks." I've gone off what the article claims. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 22:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

:::On your defense, they were a few people inside the group that held such views, but the were the exception to the rule [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 22:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[[User:Spirou|Spirou]] stop vandalizing the article by reverting it no matter what I put. Your version even has spelling errors. Your editing is akin to page blanking, moving things to "on wheels," etc. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 00:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, after people expressed the validity of the term being on the Wiki, and a compromised rewrite was wrote down, you seem eager to bulldoze your POV of a term that its just a FICTIONAL word for a group that does NOT exist. Not every word in the fandom containing the word "fur" is a candidate for its inclusion on this wiki.

:The word is fictional, there's no cabal, it doesn't matter who entered the term on ED, and the Burned Fur movement was NOT an anti-furry porn group, as you keep re-entering on over and over. Research, then present your facts [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::That's YOUR version, not other people's. You can't even correct the spelling errors. I have tried many different forms of the article to please you but all you do is vandalize the article. There's one thing called fixing it, another called just reverting it like you have done. If there's POV it can be corrected. Reverting outright no matter what I try is vandalism. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Furluminati ==

Concerning "Furluminati":

A Google search reveals the following
-Entries on Livejournal on the following journals:
*Furiluminati
*Furlluminati
*Furluminatus
*Furluminato

Non, or criptic entries such as:
*hmm. This drama, it is way too small. It is not fit for us. We require larger things.
*Dance my Monkeys Dance

-An entry on the Encyclopedia Dramatica:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Furluminati Written by Killhamster.

-An entry to Killhamster's LJ account about the ED article:
http://killhamster.livejournal.com/324346.html

Wikipedia's "Furry_Fandom" entry brings forth the following about "Furluminati":

"Attention Members of the Furspiracy
Adding one (1) anti-fur link is not against wikipedia policy. There are no rules against showing a different perspective (furspective? Yuk Yuk!) on a topic."

That's all its found about Furluminati anywhere. Two days later, new entries are added to the wikipedia's discussion:

"Furspiracy? The "monolithic anti-furry conspiracy" http://softwarredownload.net/?rid=1000059or the "furluminati"? DyslexicEditor 00:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)"

"I find it confusing who anon editors are. There's this "fursecution vandal" that has a lot of IPs. I'm assuming that's not 85.210.107.2. Then there's a bunch of other ones. As for the whole POV stuff of the article, well Wikifur mentions some conspiracies both anti-furry and those based on furries. One is the furlumanti, a group that hides sexual stuff about furries. It then links to another site and the accussation resembles the one of a wikipedia cabal (stuff started by Daniel Brandt), but saying there's a smaller, furry version. DyslexicEditor 23:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)"

Data is written down as gospel, even with the article totally defining these groups as "Fictional." So, "Furluminati" is somebody "idea" of a "Fictional Cabal" of Furries. Article has been rewritten to bring to point out that such group does not exist. Research, then publish. My two cents on the matter [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Furry_fandom The "Furry Fandom" discussion page on Wikipedia, for reference [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Problems with recent editing ==

The editing of this article and collaboration on this talk page over the last 24 hours has been poor.

=== SleepAtWork ===
* Signed Spirou's talk contribution with a signature which was clearly intended to incite ill-will
* Failed to reference actual instances of the use of the term "furry illuminati" to back up his additions when they were challenced on this talk page (a link to ED is not what I would consider a valid reference, especially when it was already there)

=== Spirou ===
* Reverted to one revision five times in a period of twenty four hours
** Reversions were not to remove simple vandalism; they were to preserve a particular version of the document with a particular point of view
** Reversions failed to incorporate any relevant information provided by SleepAtWork, even including their non-opinion-based corrections to Spirou's preferred version of the work, until after SleepAtWork requested arbitration
** Reversions also failed to preserve the fact that others had a different opinion of what the word meant. If you think others would agree with your actions, you should encourage them to to take action in supporting your view.

There were problems on both side, however blocking attempts to make constructive edits by another contributor is, in my view, worse than adding information that may be unreferenced (especially as WikiFur has no specific rule requiring such). Spirou was personally [[User talk:Spirou#Noitaroproc|warned]] of the use of similar editing practices before. While I sympathize with the reasoning, I feel his actions were an inappropriate response to SleepAtWork's attempts to edit the page.

I am not going to block anyone over this now, as edit war blocks are intended to be preventative, not punitive. However, if I start seeing this pattern of editing again, articles will be locked sooner and people will start seeing blocks.

* '''SleepAtWork''': Please back up your claims with appropriate references when they are challenged in the future. A good reference will help you where any number of unreferenced edits will not.
* '''Spirou''': Please consider this a second warning over your exclusion of others from the editing process. I do not want to have cause to give a third one in the future.

I intend to '''delete''' this article within a day unless given a convincing reason for not doing so. The term is not commonly used among members of the furry fandom. It appears to be used - and only occasionally - by a small group of "LULZ"-seeking individuals (who may or may not profess to be members of the furry fandom), centered around the site where it was created. It has wasted enough of our time and generated enough ill will.

I would note that the article about "killhamster", whose article was used as a reference, was deleted, twice, for being totally full of nonsense added by himself and his friends. I do not believe this term to be much better. At best, if it is recorded on WikiFur at all, it should have a short summary in a list of similar terms used by groups opposed to the furry fandom to refer disparagingly to members of the fandom or their actions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed, upon further research it appears to be specific to ED and is causing much greif among contributors. I now fully support its deletion where once I was hesitant. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 05:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::Understood. Please be advised I tried to contact Admin help by email and IM regarding this matter, requesting a proper way to handle the situation. I didn't "continuously" revert, A) Because it's bad form, B) I was waiting for proper handling of this situation by an Admin between reverts. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:::OK. Remember, there is always more time on a Wiki (unless there really isn't, which is usually clear :-). There are very few situations where an edit needs to be made '''right now'''. If you have a question about something, it's important enough to take time over it. '''*grins*''' --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:The article isn't to me about the term or the ED article, but about a philosophy a small number of furs practice that generally centers on wikipedia. I think maybe this philosophy should be mentioned in a different article. I also missed the article about killhamster here--I put something from his livejournal but didn't know one was here (he's actually not noticable on ED, either). I'm not protesting any deletion but I am against:
Me: a bunch of editing 
Other editor: revert with no reason given 
Me: Ask on talk page 
Me: Received no answer after a long time. 
Me: Tries editing again. 
Other editor: revert with no reason given 
Me: Tries editing again. Is this better? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Huh? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: fixes spelling error 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Tries editing again. Is this better? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: What do you want? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: AAAAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Stop it 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Why 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Do 
Other editor: revert 
Me: You 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Keep 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Doing 
Other editor: revert 
Me: This 
Other editor: revert 
Me: ?!?!? 
Other editor: revert 
 
 

Also I want to ask on [[Furs Against Furs]] and [[Burned Furs]] one was anti-furry and the other not, I asked and Spirou just labelled the other anti-fur. I'm not criticizing him for this (just for ludicrous reverting). Well in anti-furry it's vague on if it's a furry group that doesn't like furries or not. The two groups are there now recently because he added them, but I'm wondering about the term anti-furry. Maybe this, "''furries that practice regularly include the removal of furry media references ([[Sex2K|MTV]], [[CSI]], [[Drew Carey]], [[Vanity Fair]], and [[ER]]), the discrediting of relations of sexuality to the fandom, and/or the practicing the philosophies of [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. Like terms have been used to cite prevalence of these types of furries on places--most commonly wikipedia's furry categories, whereas they are not as common elsewhere. For example, such editors on wikipedia never would allow mention of [[Taurin and the Yiffing Machine]].''" kind of thing is a type of anti-furry? Maybe not?

[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Killhamster did not start the furluminati article on ED, Ashe did. There's some story [http://killhamster.livejournal.com/2005/04/10/ here]. Also, this article Furlumanti may not be notable here, just, in my opinionm the behavior associated with the concept is. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Furluminati

2006-06-30T08:51:06Z

SleepAtWork: /* Problems with recent editing */

I have never heard this term in use, and a Google search shows that the only mention of it is the Encyclopedia Dramatica article. Unless we're documenting their fictions now, I don't see a need for this article.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I don't know if I'd delete this article outright.. a google search does turn up a few references on other sites than encyclopedia dramatica. However this article should have more information regarding it's orgin on encyclopedia dramatica. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 13:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::They're only there because people have chosen it as a name for their user or LJ group, presumably because they are also members of ED. I don't see any actual use of the term ouside that. [http://furluminati.livejournal.com/ A LiveJournal] for the purpose of drama does not seem like it should count. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::While I still think that we should add some mention of its singular useage on encyclopedia dramatica I do have to agree with you on your points... If you feel that it should be deleted then I won't oppose. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 14:51, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:I'm on the fence about this one. If we keep it, it could go in [[:Category:Fictional organizations|Fictional organizations]]. Not that I have pet categories or anything. <tt>;)</tt> -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 18:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::It's largely a wikipedia terming. I don't see things like sexuality removal of furry content on wikifur or other places. Wikipedia's furry fandom talk page has some people using the term "furspiracy". Daniel Brandt and others claim wikipedia has a lot of cabals (hiveminds, too). On ED, Ashe, who started the article was a furry ([http://killhamster.livejournal.com/2005/04/10/ evidence]) so that counts for something. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 19:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Barely holding on as a clique term, it could be left as an example of "invented/forced" words that certain anti-furries/non-furs wish to "attribute" to the fandom. Discussed enough on separate services to almost warrant its inclusion. "Furspiracy" is just somebody's mental hiccup, and brings nothing to the purpose of this entry. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::::It's not about the fandom. It's only about a small percentage of furries that are against sexuality. It's a made-up term, yes, but it relates to something real. Similar viewpoints are: [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
::::I just revised it and I think it's much better than any previous edition. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I am curious why [[Burned Furs]] is categorized as anti-furry and [[Furs Against Furs]] is not. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 03:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

== Fluffing up the entry ==

The addition of the assumption of burned furs being anti-sexual in regard to furry media is actually wrong, as this notion itself was refuted by members of the movement itself.

Also, rewrites should be consistent, not a new, different one every-time, as it would put forth the image that the reviewer is not quite sure of his final thought on the mater. ''unsigned by Mr. Reverts Without Reason Many Times to His Own Version Riddled with Spelling Errors''

:[[Burned Furs]] says, "Burned Furs were intolerant of those people who walked up to television cameras and press microphones to declare that Furry Fandom essentially revolved around their own personal kinks." I've gone off what the article claims. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 22:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

:::On your defense, they were a few people inside the group that held such views, but the were the exception to the rule [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 22:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[[User:Spirou|Spirou]] stop vandalizing the article by reverting it no matter what I put. Your version even has spelling errors. Your editing is akin to page blanking, moving things to "on wheels," etc. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 00:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, after people expressed the validity of the term being on the Wiki, and a compromised rewrite was wrote down, you seem eager to bulldoze your POV of a term that its just a FICTIONAL word for a group that does NOT exist. Not every word in the fandom containing the word "fur" is a candidate for its inclusion on this wiki.

:The word is fictional, there's no cabal, it doesn't matter who entered the term on ED, and the Burned Fur movement was NOT an anti-furry porn group, as you keep re-entering on over and over. Research, then present your facts [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

::That's YOUR version, not other people's. You can't even correct the spelling errors. I have tried many different forms of the article to please you but all you do is vandalize the article. There's one thing called fixing it, another called just reverting it like you have done. If there's POV it can be corrected. Reverting outright no matter what I try is vandalism. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Furluminati ==

Concerning "Furluminati":

A Google search reveals the following
-Entries on Livejournal on the following journals:
*Furiluminati
*Furlluminati
*Furluminatus
*Furluminato

Non, or criptic entries such as:
*hmm. This drama, it is way too small. It is not fit for us. We require larger things.
*Dance my Monkeys Dance

-An entry on the Encyclopedia Dramatica:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Furluminati Written by Killhamster.

-An entry to Killhamster's LJ account about the ED article:
http://killhamster.livejournal.com/324346.html

Wikipedia's "Furry_Fandom" entry brings forth the following about "Furluminati":

"Attention Members of the Furspiracy
Adding one (1) anti-fur link is not against wikipedia policy. There are no rules against showing a different perspective (furspective? Yuk Yuk!) on a topic."

That's all its found about Furluminati anywhere. Two days later, new entries are added to the wikipedia's discussion:

"Furspiracy? The "monolithic anti-furry conspiracy" http://softwarredownload.net/?rid=1000059or the "furluminati"? DyslexicEditor 00:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)"

"I find it confusing who anon editors are. There's this "fursecution vandal" that has a lot of IPs. I'm assuming that's not 85.210.107.2. Then there's a bunch of other ones. As for the whole POV stuff of the article, well Wikifur mentions some conspiracies both anti-furry and those based on furries. One is the furlumanti, a group that hides sexual stuff about furries. It then links to another site and the accussation resembles the one of a wikipedia cabal (stuff started by Daniel Brandt), but saying there's a smaller, furry version. DyslexicEditor 23:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)"

Data is written down as gospel, even with the article totally defining these groups as "Fictional." So, "Furluminati" is somebody "idea" of a "Fictional Cabal" of Furries. Article has been rewritten to bring to point out that such group does not exist. Research, then publish. My two cents on the matter [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Furry_fandom The "Furry Fandom" discussion page on Wikipedia, for reference [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Problems with recent editing ==

The editing of this article and collaboration on this talk page over the last 24 hours has been poor.

=== SleepAtWork ===
* Signed Spirou's talk contribution with a signature which was clearly intended to incite ill-will
* Failed to reference actual instances of the use of the term "furry illuminati" to back up his additions when they were challenced on this talk page (a link to ED is not what I would consider a valid reference, especially when it was already there)

=== Spirou ===
* Reverted to one revision five times in a period of twenty four hours
** Reversions were not to remove simple vandalism; they were to preserve a particular version of the document with a particular point of view
** Reversions failed to incorporate any relevant information provided by SleepAtWork, even including their non-opinion-based corrections to Spirou's preferred version of the work, until after SleepAtWork requested arbitration
** Reversions also failed to preserve the fact that others had a different opinion of what the word meant. If you think others would agree with your actions, you should encourage them to to take action in supporting your view.

There were problems on both side, however blocking attempts to make constructive edits by another contributor is, in my view, worse than adding information that may be unreferenced (especially as WikiFur has no specific rule requiring such). Spirou was personally [[User talk:Spirou#Noitaroproc|warned]] of the use of similar editing practices before. While I sympathize with the reasoning, I feel his actions were an inappropriate response to SleepAtWork's attempts to edit the page.

I am not going to block anyone over this now, as edit war blocks are intended to be preventative, not punitive. However, if I start seeing this pattern of editing again, articles will be locked sooner and people will start seeing blocks.

* '''SleepAtWork''': Please back up your claims with appropriate references when they are challenged in the future. A good reference will help you where any number of unreferenced edits will not.
* '''Spirou''': Please consider this a second warning over your exclusion of others from the editing process. I do not want to have cause to give a third one in the future.

I intend to '''delete''' this article within a day unless given a convincing reason for not doing so. The term is not commonly used among members of the furry fandom. It appears to be used - and only occasionally - by a small group of "LULZ"-seeking individuals (who may or may not profess to be members of the furry fandom), centered around the site where it was created. It has wasted enough of our time and generated enough ill will.

I would note that the article about "killhamster", whose article was used as a reference, was deleted, twice, for being totally full of nonsense added by himself and his friends. I do not believe this term to be much better. At best, if it is recorded on WikiFur at all, it should have a short summary in a list of similar terms used by groups opposed to the furry fandom to refer disparagingly to members of the fandom or their actions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed, upon further research it appears to be specific to ED and is causing much greif among contributors. I now fully support its deletion where once I was hesitant. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 05:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
::Understood. Please be advised I tried to contact Admin help by email and IM regarding this matter, requesting a proper way to handle the situation. I didn't "continuously" revert, A) Because it's bad form, B) I was waiting for proper handling of this situation by an Admin between reverts. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:::OK. Remember, there is always more time on a Wiki (unless there really isn't, which is usually clear :-). There are very few situations where an edit needs to be made '''right now'''. If you have a question about something, it's important enough to take time over it. '''*grins*''' --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:The article isn't to me about the term or the ED article, but about a philosophy a small number of furs practice that generally centers on wikipedia. I think maybe this philosophy should be mentioned in a different article. I also missed the article about killhamster here--I put something from his livejournal but didn't know one was here (he's actually not noticable on ED, either). I'm not protesting any deletion but I am against:
Me: a bunch of editing 
Other editor: revert with no reason given 
Me: Ask on talk page 
Me: Received no answer after a long time. 
Me: Tries editing again. 
Other editor: revert with no reason given 
Me: Tries editing again. Is this better? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Huh? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: fixes spelling error 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Tries editing again. Is this better? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: What do you want? 
Other editor: revert 
Me: AAAAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Stop it 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Why 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Do 
Other editor: revert 
Me: You 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Keep 
Other editor: revert 
Me: Doing 
Other editor: revert 
Me: This 
Other editor: revert 
Me: ?!?!? 
Other editor: revert 
 
 

Also I want to ask on [[Furs Against Furs]] and [[Burned Furs]] one was anti-furry and the other not, I asked and Spirou just labelled the other anti-fur. I'm not criticizing him for this (just for ludicrous reverting). Well in anti-furry it's vague on if it's a furry group that doesn't like furries or not. The two groups are there now recently because he added them, but I'm wondering about the term anti-furry. Maybe this, "''furries that practice regularly include the removal of furry media references ([[Sex2K|MTV]], [[CSI]], [[Drew Carey]], [[Vanity Fair]], and [[ER]]), the discrediting of relations of sexuality to the fandom, and/or the practicing the philosophies of [[Burned Furs]] and [[Furs Against Furs]]. Like terms have been used to cite prevalence of these types of furries on places--most commonly wikipedia's furry categories, whereas they are not as common elsewhere. For example, such editors on wikipedia never would allow mention of [[Taurin and the Yiffing Machine]].''" kind of thing is a type of anti-furry? Maybe not?

[[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Killhamster did not start the furluminati article on ED, Ashe did. There's some story [http://killhamster.livejournal.com/2005/04/10/ here]. Also this article Furlumanti may not be notable here, just the behavior associated I think is. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 08:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Furluminati

2006-06-30T08:43:12Z

SleepAtWork: /* Problems with recent editing */ I'm gonna save and add more later

User talk:GreenReaper

2006-06-30T04:10:45Z

SleepAtWork: /* Can you help? */

User talk:SleepAtWork

2006-06-30T04:08:22Z

SleepAtWork: /* Can you help? */

User talk:GreenReaper

2006-06-30T03:28:40Z

SleepAtWork: /* Can you help? */