WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Fchan

2010-06-29T16:24:04Z

Sage Nadia: /* History */ *fix*

{{lowercase}}
{{Infobox website
| title = fchan
| image = [[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
| caption =
| author = '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
* '''Retired Administrators'''
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[Mousey]] (2008 - present)
** [[Myxomatosis]] (2007 - present)
* '''Former moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - 2008?)
| url = http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
| status =
| began = Late 2004
| ended = Ongoing
| genre = Imageboard
| rating =
}}
'''fchan''', also known as '''Fchan''' and '''Furchan''', is a [[furry]] imageboard. It was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

== History ==

fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by [[Sage Nadia]], due to his impending loss of Internet access.

fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

In December, 2007, Nadia once again took control of fchan<ref>http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Sage_Nadia#Return</ref>, resulting in some staff dismissal and some leaving of their own free will.

As an April Fool's day prank in 2010, the majority of the boards were re-routed to link only to /f/emale. The result was a backlash from a small percentage of site visitors feeling it was their duty to fight back by posting the most graphic /ah/ (alternative hard) material they could find, including multiple previously banned memes and live action animated gifs of animal slaughter, led to a decision by Nadia to shut the site down for a 24 hour period. Upon loading fchan, visitors were greeted with a page which explained the site was down due to immaturity.{{fact}} Her public statement also thanked another chan, /furi/, for playing into the joke as well as she had predicted.{{fact}}

===Banned and restricted artwork===

*March 2006 - Art depicting drug references was regulated to the /ah/ board<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1141286193/47 ''drug references not allowed?'']</ref> The official ruling by Nadia stated that depictions of drug use was allowed as long as it could not be interpreted as an instructional reference<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1141286193/51 ''drug references not allowed?'']</ref>.

*March 2008 - Fchan bans the posting of pornographic [[cub]] art.<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1204764192/1-40 "Several changes and clarifications in policy"] post by Xenofur</ref> Current policy, as posted by Nadia on /dis/ states, "Discussing CUB porn on /dis/ is grounds for immediate deletion without warning. If you wish to discuss fchan's policies relating this, contact a mod on IRC directly, they will happily answer you."<ref>[http://fchan.us/dis/ ''/dis/'']</ref> This announcement, and subsequent bans of some aggressive protesters, has drawn some criticism from the cub art community.{{fact}}

*June 2008 - Art depicting incestuous situations was also banned, to prevent any "loopholes" allowing the previously-banned cub art to be posted.

==Structure==
Due to the longer history of fchan in comparison to other furry image boards, fchan possesses a base standard hierarchy structure that has been followed (to various extents) by other competing image boards.

=== Normal Image Boards===
* [http://fchan.us/f/ /f/ (Female)] - "Lesbian or solo female pictures. (no males or herms allowed)"
* [http://fchan.us/m/ /m/ (Male)] - "Gay or solo male pictures. (no females or herms allowed)"
* [http://fchan.us/h/ /h/ (Herm)] - "Pictures featuring dickgirls/herms. (unless it's /a/, /ah/, /toon/, or /c/ material)"
* [http://fchan.us/s/ /s/ (Straight/ Bisexual)] - "Pictures of anything involving both genders. No solo pictures. (unless it's /a/, /ah/ or /c/ material)"
* [http://fchan.us/toon/ /toon/ (Toon)] - "Images drawn in a toony style and non-morphic characters. It is NOT meant for cartoon characters drawn in a realistic style. These belong in their relevant boards," as per [http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1238098153/1-40 this thread]
* [http://fchan.us/a/ /a/ (Alternative)] - "Pictures of anything that wouldn't be considered "normal" furry porn, but is considered acceptable fetish by the majority of the fandom. (bondage, bukkake, micro/macro, tentacles, oviposition, hypnosis/mind-control, etc.)"
* [http://fchan.us/ah/ /ah/ (Alt(hard))] - "Pictures of the really hardcore stuff and that which squicks the majority of the fandom (guro, non-consentual, rape, scat, violence, vore, watersports, drug use, etc.) [[Babyfurs]] that are not clearly adult, and Cub art, will not be tolerated."
* [http://fchan.us/c/ /c/ (Clean)] - "Non-pornographic furry pictures. This board should be worksafe at all times."

=== Specialized Image Boards ===
* [http://fchan.us/artist/ /artist/ (Artist)]
* [http://fchan.us/crit/ /crit/ (Critique)]
* [http://fchan.us/b/ /b/ (Banner)]

=== Message Boards ===
* [http://fchan.us/dis/ /dis/ (Discussion)]
* [http://fchan.us/req/ /req/ (Requests)]
* [http://fchan.us/faq/ /faq/ (Rule Clarification)]

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

[[pl:Fchan]]
[[es:Fchan]]
[[ru:Fchan]]
[[zh:Fchan]]

Talk:Fchan

2009-05-19T23:29:02Z

Sage Nadia: Clairification of dramatic misinterpreatation.

Actually, Fchan existed before the april fools joke at 4chan, if my memory serves me correctly.
--[[User:Wag|Wag!]] 16:11, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Downtime ==

As of 01:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC), Fchan is down. Or is it just me? --[[User:200.106.209.30|200.106.209.30]] 01:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

:Appears to be down here right now, as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

::Oops, sorry, 'seems like I forgot to login... that anonymous comment up there was mine ^^U
::Oh, and people on Renchan BBS are complaining that fchan is down for them too [http://img.renchan.org/imgboard/Furry/2579]. --[[User:Fibonacci|Fibonacci]] 04:27, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

:::So the real question to be addressed is, what's happening? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 19:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
::::Hey everyone, fchan is back up... fortunately. --[[User:Fibonacci|Fibonacci]] 22:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

By now I'm almost willing to believe that the most recent downtime (from April 10th) might be significant rather than just run-of-the-mill flakiness. --{{UT|Sebkha}} 14:00, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Been unavailable to me for a couple of days at the time of this edit. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 07:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:...and it's back again. Jeezl peets. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 06:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone happen to know anything about Dr. Pon?--{{UT|Foxpaws-zupe}} 00:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Anyone knows what's happening to Fchan? Downtimes seem to be getting longer and more frequent with time. Right now it's down. --[[User:Fibonacci|Fibonacci]] 22:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
:Update: the same seems to be true for the whole old server which, at the time of this writing, is also down. --[[User:Fibonacci|Fibonacci]] 22:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Fchan has been down for several days so far by my count. Even the OpenDNS' CacheCheck does resolve a DNS entry! (Sorry bout the Anon entry, I don't really use WikiFur that much) [[User:71.75.252.180|71.75.252.180]] 23:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
:Fchan is now back up. [[User:71.75.252.180|71.75.252.180]] 20:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

== On making downtime reports ==

Fchan appears to have downtime for someone on a fairly regular basis, returning to full service within 24 hours each time. I'd like to suggest that downtime reports be limited to those outages which last for at least two days. Votes and comments, everyone! -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:I normally wait until a week has passed, when the admins/founders request "patience," or when users query/complain about it [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Makes sense to me.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 11:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::I'd suggest that when downtimes happen the people should visit the official fchan irc channel. ;) irc://irc.distrust.us/fchan or http://www.distrust.us/javachat/fchan.php We wil usually note infos about the downtime in the topic. Furthermore i have added a section on downtimes to the article. --[[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 18:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It appears that Fchan has changed servers to irc.neverfall.org #fchan -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 09:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

== Opt-out complaints ==

Its long, and they banned me for pointing out Klaus had requested no redist on his art, as well as other art they had on their forums that was actually stamped on the image with "do not redistribute without permission" or similar phrases. I could search their postings for such and provide links, but that would rather defeat the purpose and make wikifur just as guilty. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:Nevertheless, please try to provide some linked reference we can add to support that paragraph. Thank you [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::References? Try [[Klaus Dobermann]], check out his group and his posts that he made, he made a lot years ago before he disappeared, yet you still find his commercial copyrighted stuff (very well-known among his fans as being banned) on /ah/res/28369.html as #28388, #28389, #28413, and #28415 ... there are several more in that thread that aren't commercial character art, but Klaus had requested a complete takedown of his art two years ago and hasn't granted permission for anyone to put any of it back up ... all of the new art he recently uploaded on the new group linked to in [[Klaus Dobermann]] is explicitly marked in file descriptions as not for redistribution (even though none of it is the commercial copyrighted art). I've also seen that "Two Tribes" art on fchan of a morphic and non-morphic wolf whose artist's name I forget, but the artist way back in the '90s sometime had requested no one redist their art anymore.

::I pointed these out to fchan earlier this year, and the only action they took was to ban me from the forums with words to the effect of if an artist can't be bothered to opt out from them directly, they don't care what the artist wants. Artists who are incommunicado, of course, or print artists can expect to have their requests ignored and any of their fans trying to stick up for their work will get muzzled by fchan admin. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 06:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::All right, I see some of his artwork up. Where's the forum that I can track down those threads for reference located? [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::You mean /ah/ ? The #s I posted are actual post #s in the /ah/res/28369.html thread ... the post #s refer to the # stamped by the username, date, etc. just beneath the filename, such as "Broklyn 06/09/04(Mon)00:21 No.28369 [Report]" ... #28369 is the # of that post. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 07:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

No, no, I mean a text forum with discussions about the inclusion of his art, and request to take it down. By the way, did Klaus sent his name to be added to the DNP? [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:All right then. After going thru the site, there is a few things that standout: They do remove artwork on request by the artist or a verified party, simply asking them to take them out by anybody else is disregarded. As per your post, he requested his artwork to be taken down in 2004 (two years ago,)... I remember when FChan came online then, and it didn't have a DNP at first. It came into effect late in the year, with the first request by [[Jeremy Bernal]], so it may have been a case of the DNP not being yet in place (he should request inclusion to it now.)

:Also, all the Klaus pictures I saw lack both a "Do not distribute," or even a simple (c)Copyright mark on them. So, if Klaus has not requested the artwork to be taken down in two years, and the images are devoid of any media copyright protection, I can see why the Admins won't take any action (yes, you did request them to do so, but, as their DNP details, only verified people may do so.)

:So, you should inform Mr. Klaus for a new request to be added to the DNP via email. It the mean time, part of your addition to the particle is valid as information, so I will worded in, adding also part of the information we just discussed [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:Little sidenote regarding "Do not redistribute" ignoring: I have written part of the reasoning here: http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3487&pid=45548#pid45548 (Was rather tired when i wrote that.) Additional reasons include: We've been told by some artists without even asking them that it only means in commercial ventures. What would stop random people from editing "Do not distribute" onto images, just to cause shit? --[[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 11:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::Klaus' re-reminder about his DNP I have referenced on his article, [[Klaus Dobermann]]. You must subscribe to Yahoo! groups and the Klausart group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Klausart/ to view them. His original messages to have his art taken down in 2004 were at another group that Yahoo! has taken down, so there's no longer a record. It was pointed out on the group that the main page for the unauthorized archive of Klaus' art, http://www.wwoec.com/artist/klaus/main.html, makes it look as though Klaus himself uploaded, though its clear from the date (a period during which Klaus was not on the Internet) and confirmed by Klaus that it was Klaus' imposter, the same one that had masqueraded as Klaus last year on Yahoo! groups.

::I have ''never'' heard of a case of someone modifying an artist's work to ''add'' a "Do not redistribute'' message without the artist's permission. I've seen plenty of the reverse (removal, without permission of the artist, of such labels on the images). I've also seen a lot of commercial printed comics illegally scanned in for 'net distribution; [[Sibe]] in particular was notorious for this (and successfully sued).

::I pointed out Klaus' requests quite some time ago on fchan (up to around late last year / early this year), and for that I was quickly banned. There are several artists that are incommunicado, some for several years now, whose last request was that no one redistribute their art. Unfortunately, my memory is shoddy and I can't recall the artist, but I remember specifically the artist who made http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:H4bo41mmJKGJQM:http://www.furnation.com/Murphy-Mee/images/bestof/colour/two_tribes_c.jpg was one such (and I've seen the full version posted to fchan in the past). I've never seen fchan moderators remove pics when they clearly had "DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE" stamped on the image; in fact, I was moderated on fchan for trying to bring that up. Every artist I know who has used the "DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE" stamp expressed no restriction against only commercial pay sites. I know at least one artist, in fact, who specifically doesn't want his art on fchan with the following reason stated to me in a private e-mail (no, I'm not inclined to post the entirety of the private e-mail): "... Since some troubles I had with the assholes on fchan, I decided to leave the new pics only two monthes ..." (meaning this artist wouldn't leave any of his art on his own archive longer than two months to reduce unauthorized redistributions, specifically on fchan). Some of his art was redistributed on fchan, but I haven't seen it in awhile, so his method seems to be working.

::While I have not yet seen my own creative works on fchan, I did e-mail a request on 1-4-2006 to "Sage Nadia," after I'd been banned from your forums for pointing out several posted images had been marked or requested by their creators that they not be redistributed, that no creative work of my own be redistributed. While, again, I haven't seen any of my creative works (except for one scene from one of my creative works, recreated by a guest artist using my characters she had done with my okay, I've seen posted a couple times; I have not seen that particular artist make any "do not redistribute" mentions of her work) posted on fchan (I guess its fortunate no one knows who the heck I am), I haven't seen my name added to the official fchan DNP list, either.

::I don't need to be specifically authorized by any artist to know that artist has or had put out a "do not redistribute" request, and that the fchan postings of that artist's art violate their wishes. Scream and whine and curse all you want about the artists, its been my observation that artists who fear their right to control their work will be taken away from them will be less likely to continue adding their talents to the fandom, and frankly I care more about the artists than fans who don't respect their requests. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 15:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Dude, learn to cut yourself short. IT's a major pain to wade through that rambling stuff. I'll throw quick notes at your paragraphs:

:::1. Unless i do not have actual contact with the person or a legal representative i do not do anything, period. No need to even try and discuss it.

:::2. In fact we do have such cases. Just recently some guy ripped off an image of another artist, added his sig, DND and then tried to get us to take it down.

:::3. See 1., also know: we tend to ban people who shit up the imageboards with long /dis/es, especially when it's about stuff that should be done by contacting the mods directly. We usually do warn tho.

:::3.b) We've had artists who behaved like perfect assholes, flaming people and such. They got banned and subsequently spread shit on fchan on other sites. Due to this i do not care in the least about second-hand reports about what other artists think.

:::4. Your request must've been lost or whatever. I have no records of the time when she handled DNP. Feel free to email me, procedure is described in the rules.

:::In short: If you want anything, contact me, personally, via IRC, email if you MUST. You will find that in a dialogue i'm patient, attentive and more than willing to please. If you aren't willing to do that i frankly can't be bothered and will use my time for important things.--[[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 15:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::That's a full out confession you refuse, as an official admin of fchan, to abide an artist's request that their work not get posted unless they can, will and do contact you directly, even when that artist has made public posts prohibiting redistribution, marked specific images with DND, or scans of commercial art. My noting this, then, should be fully restored to the fchan article. You have a rep among several artists -- and their fans, such as myself, who are sickened by the piracy -- and they long for the day when fchan goes offline permanently.

::::When you refuse to abide by artist requests, you earn the label of art pirate. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 16:10, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::You know, i should really for a month shut fchan down and put a redirect to lulz.net on it. Just so such short-thinking people as you see what it means if we don't do our work...

:::::Anyhow, i refuse to listen to people demanding things without proving their identity to me. Nothing more, nothing less. I do however listen to artists that prove their identity to me and as such your attempt at labeling completely fails. :) --[[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 16:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::If you want to redirect to lulz.net, I really don't mind! --[[User:Arcturus]] 16:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I'd like to see it redirect to null. I'm sick of these pirate sites passing themselves off as Dog's gift to the furry fandom. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 17:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Chibiabos, of all the image boards that post Furry artwork, FChan is the only one with a compressive DNP that they actually use and update, in other words, they go out of their way to make sure they are fair to the artists. What I saw on their site yesterday confirms that, and Xenofur has offered to work the situation out, something most other chan board Mods would just laugh at it.

There's nothing to indicate they are being disingenuous about it, so give them a chance. Respect is a two way street [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:10, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

== Template tags ==

Instead of continuing Xeno's edit war to revert my edits which summarize things Xeno himself has said (and fchan is known for), I've marked the article as I feel appropriate and appreciate intervention in restoring neutrality. Xeno made it clear public posts by artists would not be honored, nor stamps on images, nor pointing out referentially that particular art was illegally scanned in from an artist's print or comics. He expressed the same refusals and disdain that Nadia did when he banned me from the forum when I tried to ask them to honor artist's requests. They should stand by their policies and if they don't like the pirate image that earns them, they should reform their policies to honor and respect artist's wishes. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 17:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:[[WikiFur:Policies_and_guidelines#What_is_WikiFur.3F|Wikifur holds a NPOV and is not a battleground]] when it comes to other site's policies, what ever they are and how well they implement them or not. I have added additional information to the article which explains the reason for the opt-out policy.
:Regarding this particular case, I would suggest it would be better to e-mail the artist and tell them about the postings instead so that they can choose if they want to be added to the DNP or not. It is as you said their work and you should inform them so they can defend it from unwanted copying if they so wish. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 21:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
::If you'd read the article, you would have realized Klaus is incommunicado and that's my whole point -- they take advantage of artists who have left the fandom or are incommunicado for long periods of time. It is long and well established that Klaus' fan art he used to do (before he got threatening letters from movie studios) is banned for redistribution, but its redistributed willy nilly against those well-expressed statements on fchan. Fchan is violating Klaus' rights as an artist to control his work, along with every artist who is unaware their art is being distributed there. They are an art piracy site, period. "Opt-out" is as dubious a notion for pirating art as it is for bulk commercial e-mail. An art pirate is an art pirate, regardless of reason or exuse. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 21:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:::I would say that labeling on the work itself really does count as an express request from the author, and I am surprised that Fchan does not honor such marks. I have to wonder if they really do care about artists' wishes, or are just trying to avoid trouble from those artists that happen to be around. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm a bit surprised that it is that a surprise to anyone. They've said all along they only accept specific "opt-out" requests, and even that is a process where they demand you "prove" who you are. Unless its an artist who has successfully gone through their "DNP" list procedures, pointing out that an image is "do not redistribute" is a violation of their "Rule #6" and gets one banned (as happened to me).
::::Anything other than specifically contacting them and going through their procedure to get added to their DNP list -- label stamps on the images, referenceable public posts linked to the same identities as original artwork from the artists -- is completely ignored and dishonored. Any artist who is incommunicado is completely out of luck. The philosophy of "we're going to assume you're going to let us do what we want with your art unless you show us your archive and present personal identity to prove who you are" philosophy seems reminiscent -- even worse, in a way, than the "opt-out" bulk commercial e-mailers. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 16:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

== People links ==

If I recall correctly, Raven (as in the fchan mod) has a fursona which is an opossum or rat or something, not a raven. Maybe the link in the article (currently [[Raven]]) should instead point to an article [[Raven (fchan)]] or something similar? Because right now the link in the fchan article has absolutely nothing to do with the person it's referring to. --[[User:Quotingmungo|quoting_mungo]] 08:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

== Rule 34 Clarification ==
: @ ''Also according to an image on the front page of fchan all rule 34 has been placed on the do not post list, so thus apparently posting the /toon/ board is now a bannable offence''
: by ''21:13, 18 May 2009 82.42.161.212''
The cited rule is shorthand for those who start a topic with the statement "I invoke rule 34 on . . ." and are generally followed by, "Pic unrelated." As rule 34 breeds pic unrelated and we do not allow pic unrelated, it is a natural step.
/toon is still /toon until such a time as I decide it is worth the drama to have it removed.
--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 23:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Fchan

2009-03-31T09:33:36Z

Sage Nadia: If you are going to bring up 2006, read the whole thread.

{{lowercase}}
{{Infobox website
| title = fchan
| image = [[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
| caption =
| author = '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
* '''Retired Administrators'''
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[Mousey]] (2008 - present)
** [[Myxomatosis]] (2007 - present)
* '''Former moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - 2008?)
| url = http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
| status =
| began = Late 2004
| ended = Ongoing
| genre = Imageboard
| rating =
}}
'''fchan''' (also known as '''Fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

== History ==

fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by [[Sage Nadia]], due to his impending loss of Internet access.

fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

In December, 2007, Nadia once again took control of fchan<ref>http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Nadia#Return</ref>, resulting in some staff dismissal and some leaving of their own free will.

===Banned and restricted artwork===
In March 2006, art depicting drug references was regulated to the /ah/ board<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1141286193/47 ''drug references not allowed?'']</ref> The official ruling by Nadia stated that depictions of drug use was allowed as long as it could not be interpreted as an instructional reference<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1141286193/51 ''drug references not allowed?'']</ref>.

In March 2008, fchan banned the posting of pornographic [[cub]] art.<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1204764192/1-40 "Several changes and clarifications in policy"] post by Xenofur</ref> Current policy, as posted by Nadia on /dis/ states, "Discussing CUB porn on /dis/ is grounds for immediate deletion without warning. If you wish to discuss fchan's policies relating this, contact a mod on IRC directly, they will happily answer you."<ref>[http://fchan.us/dis/ ''/dis/'']</ref> This announcement, and subsequent bans of some aggressive protesters, has drawn some criticism from the cub art community.{{fact}}

In June 2008, art depicting incestuous situations was also banned, to prevent any "loopholes" allowing the previously-banned cub art to be posted.

==Structure==
Due to the longer history of fchan in comparison to other furry image boards, fchan possesses a base standard hierarchy structure that has been followed (to various extents) by other competing image boards.

=== Normal Image Boards===
* [http://fchan.us/f/ /f/ (Female)] - "Lesbian or solo female pictures. (no males or herms allowed)"
* [http://fchan.us/m/ /m/ (Male)] - "Gay or solo male pictures. (no females or herms allowed)"
* [http://fchan.us/h/ /h/ (Herm)] - "Pictures featuring dickgirls/herms. (unless it's /a/, /ah/, /toon/, or /c/ material)"
* [http://fchan.us/s/ /s/ (Straight)] - "Pictures of anything involving both genders. No solo pictures. (unless it's /a/, /ah/ or /c/ material)"
* [http://fchan.us/toon/ /toon/ (Toon)] - "Images drawn in a toony style and non-morphic characters. It is NOT meant for cartoon characters drawn in a realistic style. These belong in their relevant boards," as per [http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1238098153/1-40 this thread]
* [http://fchan.us/a/ /a/ (Alternative)] - "Pictures of anything that wouldn't be considered "normal" furry porn, but is considered acceptable fetish by the majority of the fandom. (bondage, bukkake, micro/macro, tentacles, oviposition, hypnosis/mind-control, etc.)"
* [http://fchan.us/ah/ /ah/ (Alt(hard))] - "Pictures of the really hardcore stuff and that which squicks the majority of the fandom (guro, non-consentual, rape, scat, violence, vore, watersports, drug use, etc.) [[Babyfurs]] that are not clearly adult, and Cub art, will not be tolerated."
* [http://fchan.us/c/ /c/ (Clean)] - "Non-pornographic furry pictures. This board should be worksafe at all times."

=== Specialized Image Boards ===
* [http://fchan.us/artist/ /artist/ (Artist)]
* [http://fchan.us/crit/ /crit/ (Critique)]
* [http://fchan.us/b/ /b/ (Banner)]

=== Message Boards ===
* [http://fchan.us/dis/ /dis/ (Discussion)]
* [http://fchan.us/req/ /req/ (Requests)]
* [http://fchan.us/faq/ /faq/ (Rule Clarification)]

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

[[es:Fchan]]
[[ru:Fchan]]

Fchan

2009-03-27T23:19:17Z

Sage Nadia: Sage is not proper.

{{lowercase}}
{{Infobox website
| title = fchan
| image = [[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
| caption =
| author = '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
* '''Retired Administrators'''
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[Mousey]] (2008 - present)
** [[Myxomatosis]] (2007 - present)
* '''Former moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - 2008?)
| url = http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
| status =
| began = Late 2004
| ended = Ongoing
| genre = Imageboard
| rating =
}}
'''fchan''' (also known as '''Fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

== History ==

fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by [[Sage Nadia]], due to his impending loss of Internet access.

fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

In December, 2007, Nadia once again took control of fchan<ref>http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Nadia#Return</ref>, resulting in some staff dismissal and some leaving of their own free will.

In March 2008, fchan banned the posting of pornographic [[cub]] art.<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1204764192/1-40 "Several changes and clarifications in policy"] post by Xenofur</ref> Shortly after this revision in policy, it was announced by Nadia that any attempt to discuss, debate, or justify cub porn on any section of fchan would result in an immediate and no questions asked ban of the individual responsible. This announcement, and subsequent bans, has drawn some criticism from the cub art community.

In June 2008, art depicting incestuous situations was also banned, presumably to prevent any "loopholes" allowing the previously-banned cub art to be posted.

==Structure==
Due to the longer history of fchan in comparison to other furry image boards, fchan possesses a base standard hierarchy structure that has been followed (to various extents) by other competing image boards.

=== Normal Image Boards===
* [http://fchan.us/f/ /f/ (Female)] - "Lesbian or solo female pictures. (no males or herms allowed)"
* [http://fchan.us/m/ /m/ (Male)] - "Gay or solo male pictures. (no females or herms allowed)"
* [http://fchan.us/h/ /h/ (Herm)] - "Pictures featuring dickgirls/herms. (unless it's /a/, /ah/, /toon/, or /c/ material)"
* [http://fchan.us/s/ /s/ (Straight)] - "Pictures of anything involving both genders. No solo pictures. (unless it's /a/, /ah/ or /c/ material)"
* [http://fchan.us/toon/ /toon/ (Toon)] - "Images drawn in a toony style and non-morphic characters. It is NOT meant for cartoon characters drawn in a realistic style. These belong in their relevant boards," as per [http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1163274544 this thread]
* [http://fchan.us/a/ /a/ (Alternative)] - "Pictures of anything that wouldn't be considered "normal" furry porn, but is considered acceptable fetish by the majority of the fandom. (bondage, bukkake, micro/macro, tentacles, oviposition, <strike>hypnosis/mind-control</strike>, etc.)"
* [http://fchan.us/ah/ /ah/ (Alt(hard))] - "Pictures of the really hardcore stuff and that which squicks the majority of the fandom (guro, non-consentual, rape, scat, violence, vore, watersports, drug use, etc.) [[Babyfurs]] that are not clearly adult, and Cub art, will not be tolerated." Psychedelic fetishes and practices, including hypnosis, mind control and drugs, are also inserted into this board.
* [http://fchan.us/c/ /c/ (Clean)] - "Non-pornographic furry pictures. This board should be worksafe at all times."

=== Specialized Image Boards ===
* [http://fchan.us/artist/ /artist/ (Artist)]
* [http://fchan.us/crit/ /crit/ (Critique)]
* [http://fchan.us/b/ /b/ (Banner)]

=== Message Boards ===
* [http://fchan.us/dis/ /dis/ (Discussion)]
* [http://fchan.us/req/ /req/ (Requests)]
* [http://fchan.us/faq/ /faq/ (Rule Clarification)]

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

[[es:Fchan]]
[[ru:Fchan]]

Sage Nadia

2009-02-18T21:23:31Z

Sage Nadia: adding nowiki tag

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' , pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan|fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''(ナディア).<ref><nowiki>http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Sage_Nadia#Citation_regarding_Sage_Nadia_to_Nadia</mowiki></ref> Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Kindrift]]
It has been suggested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]] moderator [[Kindrift]], who released an image comparing Nadia's IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel pertaining to Ayukawataur.

Kindrift has claimed that the image was not edited in any way beyond the necessary highlighting. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of fchan in any capacity. He has gone on record as stating that this is, in part, because he would not wish to be associated with the reputation the site or the moderation team garnered in his absence.

==== Nadia as fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] grew by leaps and bounds. As of this writing, the fchan DNP lists over 221 individual artists and 15 websites, one of which is only partially present, resulting in a larger appearance than it actually has.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones (ironically enough, most of the furry-based imageboards that have cropped up since Nadia gained control of fchan were created specifically because fchan didn't die). As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan to ensure this would happen:

===== Domination =====

Step one was to dominate the boards -- to create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users' love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it openly available to any and all artists who wished to be placed on it. In this manner, she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better imageboard. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many "trolls".

===== Retirement =====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye -- as part of this step, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining active on fchan only in an advisory capacity to Xenofur. She thus was allowed to stay in fchan's administrative IRC channel. Additionally, due to the low reliability of the fchan server and the low availability of persons with the knowledge and ability to bring it back up in emergency cases, Xenofur allowed her to retain root login, on the condition she only acts in cases of functional failure to threat to the server. He never informed Raven or any other member of this fact, due to his knowledge of Raven's inability to accept anything else than absolutely clear ranks and power levels. The userbase of fchan was not informed as the persons with server admin access for development and maintenance reasons were not generally made public, unless they chose so.

===== Return =====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The delay here being caused by the owner looking at the situation with indifference. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, due to a statement of an underinformed close acquaintance of [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]]. Site administrator Xenofur claimed in February 2008 that things happened as follows:

{{q|Due to a specific event in summer 2007, Xenofur decided that Raven was unable to deal with the specific power structures unique to fchan, this concerning not only the position of Nadia, but also the relation between mods and admins. He did however not take the necessary actions, kept his conclusions secret from Raven and let him retain his position. Half a year passed in which things went on with Raven doing the bulk of the administrative decisions and Xenofur swallowing most of his objections. After that time however he was talked into performing a certain act. However, afterwards he realized that the reasoning leading to that act were, as far as he was concerned, completely flawed and not consistent with the way fchan should be administrated. As such he decided to remove Raven from his admin position, however opted due to emotional stress to drop offline for a week. This left Nadia online as the only person with the access and knowledge to ensure security of the server. In that week she and Raven talked about the topic at hand and Raven made a remark that she interpreted as being a threat to the server. According to the conditions agreed on with Xenofur a year before, she changed the root password of the server to prevent any tampering.

When Xenofur came back online she immediately gave the new root password to him, as well as instructions on how to change it. Due to work stress and wanting to talk things through with the other mods he opted to leave things as they are for the moment. In a lengthy talk Raven and Xenofur came to the agreement that it would be best for Raven to leave the administration team. Two other mods followed him, as they'd only been on the team due to being friends of his.

It is of note that in the time from her retirement until the moment when she changed the root password, she had not done a single administrative talk or decision. Currently Nadia is not listed on fchan's front page under the "Contact" section, due to the fact that all administrative decisions are still only being done by Xenofur, while she restricts her actions to advising him and the mods. Due to being dismissed by Xenofur Raven is also unlisted, leaving only Xenofur as the remaining Administrator.}}

Despite these claims, things have changed four months later without an update on the frontpage. (Due to laziness on Xenofur's part.) Nadia recently posted on the site's discussion board, using the red "administrator" text for her name, declaring that incest threads were now temporarily forbidden to be posted, due to the drama and rule circumvention springing up around them. [http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1214316192/1,3][http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1214288064/l40]

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Sage Nadia

2009-02-18T21:21:39Z

Sage Nadia: Fchan to fchan - fixing reference

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' , pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan|fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''(ナディア).<ref>http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Sage_Nadia#Citation_regarding_Sage_Nadia_to_Nadia</ref> Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Kindrift]]
It has been suggested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]] moderator [[Kindrift]], who released an image comparing Nadia's IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel pertaining to Ayukawataur.

Kindrift has claimed that the image was not edited in any way beyond the necessary highlighting. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of fchan in any capacity. He has gone on record as stating that this is, in part, because he would not wish to be associated with the reputation the site or the moderation team garnered in his absence.

==== Nadia as fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] grew by leaps and bounds. As of this writing, the fchan DNP lists over 221 individual artists and 15 websites, one of which is only partially present, resulting in a larger appearance than it actually has.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones (ironically enough, most of the furry-based imageboards that have cropped up since Nadia gained control of fchan were created specifically because fchan didn't die). As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan to ensure this would happen:

===== Domination =====

Step one was to dominate the boards -- to create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users' love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it openly available to any and all artists who wished to be placed on it. In this manner, she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better imageboard. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many "trolls".

===== Retirement =====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye -- as part of this step, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining active on fchan only in an advisory capacity to Xenofur. She thus was allowed to stay in fchan's administrative IRC channel. Additionally, due to the low reliability of the fchan server and the low availability of persons with the knowledge and ability to bring it back up in emergency cases, Xenofur allowed her to retain root login, on the condition she only acts in cases of functional failure to threat to the server. He never informed Raven or any other member of this fact, due to his knowledge of Raven's inability to accept anything else than absolutely clear ranks and power levels. The userbase of fchan was not informed as the persons with server admin access for development and maintenance reasons were not generally made public, unless they chose so.

===== Return =====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The delay here being caused by the owner looking at the situation with indifference. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, due to a statement of an underinformed close acquaintance of [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]]. Site administrator Xenofur claimed in February 2008 that things happened as follows:

{{q|Due to a specific event in summer 2007, Xenofur decided that Raven was unable to deal with the specific power structures unique to fchan, this concerning not only the position of Nadia, but also the relation between mods and admins. He did however not take the necessary actions, kept his conclusions secret from Raven and let him retain his position. Half a year passed in which things went on with Raven doing the bulk of the administrative decisions and Xenofur swallowing most of his objections. After that time however he was talked into performing a certain act. However, afterwards he realized that the reasoning leading to that act were, as far as he was concerned, completely flawed and not consistent with the way fchan should be administrated. As such he decided to remove Raven from his admin position, however opted due to emotional stress to drop offline for a week. This left Nadia online as the only person with the access and knowledge to ensure security of the server. In that week she and Raven talked about the topic at hand and Raven made a remark that she interpreted as being a threat to the server. According to the conditions agreed on with Xenofur a year before, she changed the root password of the server to prevent any tampering.

When Xenofur came back online she immediately gave the new root password to him, as well as instructions on how to change it. Due to work stress and wanting to talk things through with the other mods he opted to leave things as they are for the moment. In a lengthy talk Raven and Xenofur came to the agreement that it would be best for Raven to leave the administration team. Two other mods followed him, as they'd only been on the team due to being friends of his.

It is of note that in the time from her retirement until the moment when she changed the root password, she had not done a single administrative talk or decision. Currently Nadia is not listed on fchan's front page under the "Contact" section, due to the fact that all administrative decisions are still only being done by Xenofur, while she restricts her actions to advising him and the mods. Due to being dismissed by Xenofur Raven is also unlisted, leaving only Xenofur as the remaining Administrator.}}

Despite these claims, things have changed four months later without an update on the frontpage. (Due to laziness on Xenofur's part.) Nadia recently posted on the site's discussion board, using the red "administrator" text for her name, declaring that incest threads were now temporarily forbidden to be posted, due to the drama and rule circumvention springing up around them. [http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1214316192/1,3][http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1214288064/l40]

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

ナディア

2009-01-02T19:29:32Z

Sage Nadia: Just because

#REDIRECT [[Sage_Nadia]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2009-01-02T19:27:31Z

Sage Nadia: @ name Nadia

== "Article" is absurdly opinionated exposition ==

I followed the link from the Fchan article and found this "article" about some administrator there. Well, I don't know how difficult or abrasive this Sage Nadia can be, but this article is self-evidently a putdown attempt rather than an encyclopedic article.

Mostly the paragraphs present an analysis of this person's actions, spinning them as some sort of sinister plan, providing no supporting evidence or citations. It just looks stupid. Grow up, people.--[[User:Farry|Farry]] 18:08, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:ha, they won't ever fix that article because sage nadia bribed greenrapist into keeping her article that way. {{unsigned|76.65.165.177}}

== Comments of mysterious context go here ==

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Herr Xenofur ist the only one who knows near as much about this as I do. I mean, come on here. According to your people, Xenofur and I kept the entire staff oblivious to the alleged fact that I was running everything. And, none of this, including myself, was an issue because everyone thought I had faded away.
::::::: Kinda sorta means you all really have no clue either.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: Just means that you're very good at lying and deception, by your own admission in the article. That you wrote. Even more reason that you shouldn't be allowed to write your own article. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::: No, it means that I never knew I was still in charge until shortly before I took back over. It means that the staff knew I was around, and that I was someone Xenofur consulted, but we never made the public aware of such. It means we had a good staff who knew how to keep internal matters internal.
::::::::: I never intended to ever run the system again. It happened, that is all there is too it. Events went the way they went, and someone had to take control or we would have all watched the system, and those trusted to run it, tear apart over internal conflict. I did what I did because I did not want the system to die and be replaced by 15 clones each behaving like lulz.
::::::::: Fchan is meant to be a place for art appreciation. Drama belongs elsewhere.
::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Stricken pending any argument that it's a useful addition. If no one asked for years, then no one wanted or needed to know. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 09:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Of course not. That would mean they would not be able to use it as my defining comment. I do not mind if they continue to use it that way. It really is a good way of trying to make me look like my perspective is skewed and off base. Absolutely brilliant, if not completely predictable tactics.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Dear, don't pretend the world is out to get you. This is a wiki, not a battleground. It is a place for information, not a place where you combat your supposed enemies. That was never your defining comment until you told the world it was and begged them to ridicule you for it; it doesn't belong here, it's better suited for your own journal or site. And let me know if I'm "very mean being" to you. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 19:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: Paranoia Much?
::::: The world is not out to get me. As with all individuals, a few are trying to have fun, make a point, and intend to make my life a bit more complex than previously experienced. But, hey, we all have those types of people to challenge us and push us to new heights.
::::: You must be new to this, or have been reading the abridged book of Nadia. That statement has been used more times and on more sites than anything else I have ever said. If you count my pointing out it was never defined as begging, you must have led a very simple and plush life. Begging is something one does when they have nothing and must resort to the pity of others in order to survive. Pointing out facts, as I have, is what people do when there is a definite lack of understanding going on.
::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::You must be new to the whole wiki thing. If you demand that the uneditable block which persists the viewpoint of a single editor (you) remains in the article, then you should give a reason and evidence for it here on the talk page and not revert the entire article as "vandalism". My change has been reviewed and accepted by the administration as not vandalism. Further you reverted a number of positive changes along with the one change you disagreed with. You have more tools available than simple reversion.
:::::I don't care about the 'book of Nadia'. I don't read furry fiction. If you think the fiction is appropriate, then explain why. WikiFur is not a place for you to make rebuttals to arguments, I'd write that little essay in your private space or in a journal somewhere and leave it off this page. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

== NPOV ==

Opinions on [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=200267&oldid=187378&rcid=208618 this edit?] It seems to have removed massive swathes of information that the author has deemed controversial. I'm likely to revert if no one objects and justifies the removal of so much information. {{:User:Robomilk/sig}} 08:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
: I reverted having checked that users edit history, they appear to have some "issues" with the way WikiFur is run and has previously made non-serious edits to the site. {{:User:Robomilk/sig}} 12:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Nadia Adminning Again ==

Xenofur seems to want to remove the fact that Nadia is actively administrating Fchan again, despite it being presented in a factual, non-insulting way. Perhaps someone with an account would care to upload an image of the plain-as-day evidence that anyone could presumably see if they went to the site anyway?

http://www.anonib.com/_freehaven/images/1060/noincestforu_anonib.jpg

It is rather odd that Xenofur and Nadia seem to be dedicated to denying the truth almost just to do it. I mean, Nadia's being an administrator again, she's doing it right there, on fchan... why do they feel that it's important to lie and say she's not on here? It's mindboggling. -[[Special:Contributions/70.234.224.171|70.234.224.171]] 17:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not clear exactly where i am lieing. I noted that things have changed since the 4 month old quote and also noted that i just can't be arsed to change the frontpage. Please elucidate me on exactly where my lie is, so i can clear it up. --[[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 18:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

== Citation regarding Sage Nadia to Nadia ==
There are a number of reasons why I use only Nadia now.
* Nobody seems to be able to pronounce it properly.
* I find typing Sage every time to be five keystrokes I do not wish to type.
* The original, actual, name was ナディア・ラ・アルウォール [Nadia Rah Alwar], which is even more characters, and impossible for most in the English world to read.
* I was asked by Xenofur to consider shortening it for use in IRC to just Nadia. He cited a fear that since many did not understand the term Sage was a term meant to humble, not elevate, it would cause long term problems.
* I like the term Etoile more. [エトワール]
I mostly use Nadia#Etoile now.
--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 19:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Fchan

2008-12-23T15:24:52Z

Sage Nadia: This has been bugging me for years. It is fchan not Fchan.

{{Infobox website
| title = fchan
| image = [[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
| caption =
| author = '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Sage Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
* '''Retired Administrators'''
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[Mousey]] (2008 - present)
** [[Myxmatosis]] (? - present)
* '''Former moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - 2008?)
| url = http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
| status =
| began = Late 2004
| ended = Ongoing
| genre = Imageboard
| rating =
}}
'''fchan''' (also known as '''Fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

== History ==

fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by [[Sage Nadia]], due to his impending loss of Internet access.

fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

In December, 2007, Nadia once again took control of fchan<ref>http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Nadia#Return</ref>, resulting in some staff dismissal and some leaving of their own free will.

In March 2008, fchan banned the posting of pornographic [[cub]] art.<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1204764192/1-40 "Several changes and clarifications in policy"] post by Xenofur</ref> Shortly after this revision in policy, it was announced by Nadia that any attempt to discuss, debate, or justify cub porn on any section of fchan would result in an immediate and no questions asked ban of the individual responsible. This announcement, and subsequent bans, has drawn some criticism from the cub art community.

In June 2008, art depicting incestuous situations was also banned, presumably to prevent any "loopholes" allowing the previously-banned cub art to be posted.

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

[[es:Fchan]]

Fchan

2008-06-11T00:49:57Z

Sage Nadia: Some minor changes

[[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
'''Fchan''' (also known as '''fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
* '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Sage Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
* '''Retired Administrators'''
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - Present)
* '''Ran from/to''': Late 2004 - present

== History ==

Fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that Fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, Fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

Fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by [[Sage Nadia]], due to his impending loss of Internet access.

Fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, Fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

Fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

In December, 2007, Nadia once again took control of Fchan<ref>http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Nadia#Return</ref>, resulting in some staff dismissal and some leaving of their own free will.

In March 2008, Fchan banned the posting of pornographic [[cub]] art.<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/dis/1204764192/1-40 "Several changes and clarifications in policy"] post by Xenofur</ref> Shortly after this revision in policy, it was announced by Nadia that any attempt to discuss, debate, or justify cub porn on any section of Fchan would result in an immediate and no questions asked ban of the individual responsible. This announcement, and subsequent bans, has drawn some criticism from the cub art community.

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use Fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on Fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

Fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, Fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T21:25:08Z

Sage Nadia: Re-Fixing Vandalism.

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. Freehaven has commented that that is not the case.

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Railfoxen]]
It has been sugested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]]'s moderator [[RailFoxen]], who released an image comparing her IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised,) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel matching it to posts by Ayukawataur.

It is not known whether the screenshot submited by Railfoxen is a [[Wikipedia:Adobe Photoshop|Photoshop]] manipulation or not. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] (which allowed for artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display on the site,) grew by leaps and bounds.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan:

==== Domination ====

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

==== Retirement ====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining only an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of Fchan's IRC channel and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff. During this time, she acted in an advisory capacity only.

==== Return ====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has yet been issued.

According to various different sources, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties; she felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's IRC admin flag, immediately followed by an expression of anger directed at Xenofur for not removing all of her access. Contrary to popular rumor, however, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return, as much as it was the lack of cooperation from the other moderators. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues. In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized full control a week later.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T21:21:37Z

Sage Nadia: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Herr Xenofur ist the only one who knows near as much about this as I do. I mean, come on here. According to your people, Xenofur and I kept the entire staff oblivious to the alleged fact that I was running everything. And, none of this, including myself, was an issue because everyone thought I had faded away.
::::::: Kinda sorta means you all really have no clue either.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: Just means that you're very good at lying and deception, by your own admission in the article. That you wrote. Even more reason that you shouldn't be allowed to write your own article. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::: No, it means that I never knew I was still in charge until shortly before I took back over. It means that the staff knew I was around, and that I was someone Xenofur consulted, but we never made the public aware of such. It means we had a good staff who knew how to keep internal matters internal.
::::::::: I never intended to ever run the system again. It happened, that is all there is too it. Events went the way they went, and someone had to take control or we would have all watched the system, and those trusted to run it, tear apart over internal conflict. I did what I did because I did not want the system to die and be replaced by 15 clones each behaving like lulz.
::::::::: Fchan is meant to be a place for art appreciation. Drama belongs elsewhere.
::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Stricken pending any argument that it's a useful addition. If no one asked for years, then no one wanted or needed to know. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 09:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Of course not. That would mean they would not be able to use it as my defining comment. I do not mind if they continue to use it that way. It really is a good way of trying to make me look like my perspective is skewed and off base. Absolutely brilliant, if not completely predictable tactics.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Dear, don't pretend the world is out to get you. This is a wiki, not a battleground. It is a place for information, not a place where you combat your supposed enemies. That was never your defining comment until you told the world it was and begged them to ridicule you for it; it doesn't belong here, it's better suited for your own journal or site. And let me know if I'm "very mean being" to you. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 19:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: Paranoia Much?
::::: The world is not out to get me. As with all individuals, a few are trying to have fun, make a point, and intend to make my life a bit more complex than previously experienced. But, hey, we all have those types of people to challenge us and push us to new heights.
::::: You must be new to this, or have been reading the abridged book of Nadia. That statement has been used more times and on more sites than anything else I have ever said. If you count my pointing out it was never defined as begging, you must have led a very simple and plush life. Begging is something one does when they have nothing and must resort to the pity of others in order to survive. Pointing out facts, as I have, is what people do when there is a definite lack of understanding going on.
::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T11:22:47Z

Sage Nadia: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */

Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T10:31:25Z

Sage Nadia: Fixing Vandalism

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-02T03:39:23Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */

== Revisions ==

"''Hey, if Sage Nadia can edit her own article, why can't I?''." You both can,... but "''Also, LOL DRAMA. :D''" and "''(/wooo/)''" is not precisely historical/informative "data" (really,)...

A for Sage's article, you can see we started to edit/clean up that... article, so it reads more like a Wikifur entry. By the by, you have made points about your involvement in the whole [[Fchan]] matter; If you want/wish to added it here, we can compare and reconcile the differences, because, as it reads right now, I can't make heads or $#@%#! tails of the whole "FchanTakeOverDepartureReturnVision" thingie/point =P - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:/wooo/ IS the technical title of 420chan's wrestling board, so technically, it IS historical/informative data. I'm sure you're capable of going to 420chan and looking it up to make sure.{{fact}} [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 05:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ah, like /b/, /wp/, etc,... My mistake, I thought it was just an onomatopoeia, will add it back in - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Sage Nadia question ==

It's regarding the following : "''Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms or denies this theory.''" As Sage Freehaven, you can directly confirm or deny if this was the case or not, and the information added in instead of a <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> tag - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:Sadly, I can't truly confirm it -- it seems to be the belief/theory of several other people, spurred on by the fact that people initially thought the '''Sage''' portion of '''Sage Freehaven''' was a title. [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 09:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:: Unfortunately, I am the only one who can confirm or deny that little tidbit. Believe me, I wish it was not so, but since I have already denied it, so it is kind of a lost point. I mean, really, my whole page is a matter of She says, he says. Assumptions, and taking what I say on faith. Or going against what I say on lack of faith. We never documented anything major.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Actually, most of your WikiFur article is "you say", seeing as how it's mostly written by you (granted, I did add a LITTLE something, but most of the article as it stands right now was written by you, last I checked). I'll own up to writing my article, but at least I didn't put a bunch of self-serving bullshit in it; if I wanted to, I could have probably made it worse than my Encyclopedia Dramatica article (which already takes a dig at me writing my WikiFur article). The only reason I wrote it is so that someone didn't do what you think most of us are probably trying to do to yours -- fill it with "lies" and "slander" and "mistruths". Everything in my article is the truth, and if someone adds something to it that requires a citation or fact-checking, I'll be the first one to own up as to whether or not it's the truth. I'm not so paranoid/insane as to hide things from people or actively deceive people.
::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 12:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Touché.
:::: Seriously, I am not trying to make myself out to be a saint or a sinner. I am writing what is truth from the viewpoint of the person who did it. You all have no idea what we really did, or how we did it. You were not part of the process. You were always on the outside looking in.
:::: I am aware, some of my decisions were not the best. I know I made a lot of enemies. I knew this step by step that eventually you would try to come back and bite me.
:::: Truth is, I do not care. I never cared for any of it. I never cared for Fchan, or the supposed power people think I want, or respect, or anything like that. It is a fly by night furry porn site, you know? Who cares about what anyone thinks, as long as the fanboys get their porn, we should all be happy.
:::: Only, I knew you and eventually those who you associate with would try to pull this. I never really trusted you. We had different ideas of what is and is not acceptable. Keeping records is something I do, only not for the public to look at. So, no citations.
:::: I would like to say I am sorry that I took her away from you. But like I said, shes a furry porn site, nothing more.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 13:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you didn't care for it, then why the hell did you offer to run it -- and why did you KEEP running it for over two-and-a-half years? And as far as "those who [I] associate with", I had nothing to do with them taking the initiative and editing your article to make it less NPOV (Nadia's Point of View) and more NPOV (Neutral Point of View). I was pointed to the editing, agreed with what they were doing, and decided on my own to help edit it to make it more neutral. I mean, seriously -- please don't even try to imply that I was the leader of some sort of conspiracy to edit a self-serving story about you on a wiki about furries that, in all likelihood, won't even be around in a decade.
:::::And there's no need for you to dredge up old communications, either -- I owned up to everything on your article. I said, outright, than you volunteered to run fChan and (when I was confident I couldn't run it anymore) I handed you the title of full-time site administrator, and when I came back, I didn't want to return to fChan in any capacity. Like I said above -- unlike you, I'm willing to own up to my actions without surrounding the explanation with a thick layer of bullshit.
::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 13:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: I ran it because I knew what would happen if I did not.
:::::: As the [[Sage Nadia|article]] says. My original plan was to cause the system to implode upon itself. Kind of a self destruction thing. You do not remember, in the beginning, you almost banned me because I did not appreciate the whole non-respect for artists thing going on at the time. Less than a month after I took over, something happened which reminded me of another similar situation. In that situation, another community was faced with the impending disappearance of another network and in response many others tried to build clones of it. Not only was there a battle amongst them all to be the new and improved replacement. There was also a significant lack of structure and rules.
:::::: When I took over, fchan, it was the model of near perfect anarchy. There was no respect for anyone. The only rule was, what Sage Freehaven said is law, and his usual only thing ever said was "Gadget Hackwrench = cool" and "Shut up and Fap", which sadly is often attributed to me, not you where it belongs.
:::::: I wanted to change that and stop the inevitable clone wars should I have destroyed the system and build a *chan system that violated the very nature of a *chan. I kind of like taking on the impossible after all.
:::::: It is not about owning up, or not owning up. You and I both have differing opinions and viewpoints of what happened. Human nature, any time you have more than a single person, you will never get a perfect picture as both will never agree.
:::::: See, I am not a simple minded girl. Everything I do has more than one reason. It is often a conglomeration of hundreds of reasons all rolled up into one. The action taken is based on the projected worst possible outcome. Sort of how one plays Go or Chess. You always think at least twenty moves ahead. Call it what you want, really, please do. It gives me something more to talk with you about.
:::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 20:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::You say we have "differing opinions and viewpoints of what happened". While that may be true, I'd also like to say that you didn't tell me anything about your plan to make Fchan "implode upon itself". You never shared your plan with me. EVER.
:::::::And don't try and say Fchan was "anarchy" when it wasn't -- under my administration, not only could you express a negative opinion of an artist's work, you could do so without fear of being banned just for HAVING an opinion that doesn't fellate the artist's e-penis in the first place (if you did take it too far, however, I banned your ass). You consider that "anarchy" and disrespectful; I consider it precisely the opposite -- people had enough respect for both Free Speech ''and'' the artistic process to call out and criticise bad art while celebrating (and, in several instances, simultaneously criticizing) good art. If artists can't learn to take a little criticism, no matter how harsh, then they need to STFU and GTFO the Internet, because not everyone is going to be their friend and e-fellate them just because they can put lines on paper.
:::::::And you know why there's a lack of rules on imageboards besides Fchan? Because most normal imageboard users don't want to be bogged down with having to read a litany of "DO THIS OR YOUR BANNED" edicts from the Admins, then have to confirm five times before posting that they did read the rules. Most imageboards work well with the ruleset of "No CP, no viruses/trojans/other harmful stuff, and keep content limited to the board's theme". I equate Fchan in the form it's in now to FurAffinity Lite -- seriously, the only difference between Fchan and FA is the fact that you have to register at FA to see the porn.
:::::::Oh, and I know you didn't bring this up, but as far as trolling goes on Fchan -- yeah, it was annoying having to deal with trolls (mod panels on imageboard software should really be a bit more user-friendly), but for the most part, it was actually amusing when a troll came in and tried to disrupt things.
:::::::I've grown to love the "imageboard culture", and I think I understand it way more than you ever will. Fchan is no longer an imageboard, it's...honestly, I don't know what the hell it is. But if you hate Fchan so much and think it should be allowed to implode upon itself, why don't you? Lulz.net may not be ALL about the art, but it functions quite well, and I enjoy seeing the drama that pops up there (being a former /b/tard helps a lot in that regard); several imageboards also have furry subboards, one can always use anonIB to make a furry board, and several furry-centric imageboards would likely pop up on the off-chance Fchan died off. Of course, THOSE imageboards likely won't have a DNP list, won't censor Free Speech, and won't cowtow to artists when they whine for their stuff to be taken down...you know, the exact opposite of everything Fchan does today. (Okay, maybe they won't ignore EVERY artist -- there's still the globally-understood SexyFur Rule, after all.)
::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 21:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: If I never shared my plan with you, EVER? Then, how much other things did I never share with you, or others? Truth is, you have no idea, and neither do they. You all sit there, at your keyboards, and try to tell others what I was doing, or thinking. You even try to tell me what was going on in this thing I call my brain. No offense intended, but you are in no way qualified to even attempt to understand what is going on in here. You only know, and will ever know, what it is I tell you.{{fact}}
:::::::: Oh yes, it was anarchy. Sorry if that is a sore spot with you.
:::::::: Freedom Of Speech - the warcry of the oppressors everywhere. I demanded respect for artists. Criticism was discouraged. Outright flaming criticism was removed. Multiple offenders were banned. Constructive Criticism was never discouraged. That means, criticism with the intent of helping another understand what is wrong and helping explain it to them in a way that helps them learn and grow from the experience. Big difference you should learn:
:::::::: Bad = "Oh Man That Sucks"
:::::::: Good = "I don't know, the background just seems a bit off to me."
:::::::: Best = That background looks a bit off. The perspective is a bit skewed, and I think the colors need a bit more contrast. Perhaps a bit of bleaching as it gets farther away helps with adding in atmospheric perspective." And so on.
:::::::: Freedom of Speech has limits. Unless you want to tell me things like the classic: "Shut Up Man! You're infringing om my freedom of speech!" is also perfectly acceptable.
:::::::: And, you only need to confirm once. Math Y'know. Not all that hard is it?
:::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 22:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::''Freedom of Speech has limits. Unless you want to tell me things like the classic: "Shut Up Man! You're infringing om my freedom of speech!" is also perfectly acceptable.'' | Actually, yes, I do think it's acceptable. I think all forms of criticism, no matter how unfounded, unsubstantiated, or unwarranted they are, should be acceptable simply on the basis that it's someone's opinion, and no one's opinion should be censored even if it's offensive. If you're easily offended, you can skip past the text that offends you and read someone else's opinion / stare at pretty pictures and jerk off.
:::::::::And as far as respect for artists goes -- my respect for any artist is based on their abilities and their attitude towards their art. DCRabbit, for instance -- I respect him a great deal because not only does he draw some very nice-looking porn, but he continually berates himself and pushes himself to get better. Sadly, Fchan harbors artists that don't want to hear "this is good, but it could be great if you did this and this" -- they all want to hear "YOU FUCKIN' ROCK MY SOCKS RIGHT OFF" or similar such boundless praise. And there's a ton of artists out there that could stand to hear "You suck, and don't post your art again until you've taken at least one remedial art class", but never will because that would HURT THEIR FEELINGS BAWWWWWWWWWWW, and God knows we can't have hurt feelings in the furry community, because that might lead to OMFG DRAMA~!
:::::::::I'm not going to make excuses, either -- my art sucks out loud. I freely admit it; hell, it's part of my "Artist Information" on my FA page now. But at least I recognize my art is bad, I try to improve it with each new pic I do, and I ask SPECIFICALLY for criticism. Most other artists would note the FA admins and try and get someone banned for even offering a tiny amount of constructive criticism.
:::::::::If you think opinions and ideas should be suppressed just to keep people happy, you're wrong. There are very rare, very specific instances in which speech should be censored -- the limit I go with, personally, is if speech is intended to cause harm to someone, such as asking for someone to be killed or yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. But beyond that, any idea, opinion, or belief should be allowed to be expressed. I'm of the belief that every person has the right to express themselves, but nobody has the right to be offended.
:::::::::But hey, you run Fchan. You're the one that sets the rules, and I respect that -- you run your site as you see fit. All the same, don't be surprised when people see what you do with the site as compared to actual imageboards, then express their opinions of your site, your userbase, and you yourself.
:::::::::Just try not to cry too much when people call you a bitch. :)
::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 23:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::Originally i didn't want to post anything, but with the fervor with which you defend your views makes me think you're actually not just writing it to get a reaction, but DO believe these things. As such and for any random passersby:
::::::::::We are not censoring opinion, we are restricting vocabulary and behavior. English is an extremely versatile and useful language. You can express many ideas and concepts in many different ways. You can do it in a descriptive and respectful manner. You can completely and absolutely diminish a person without ever sounding like a little kid that just escaped from 8th grade. Or you can delve into the worst fecal vocabulary that your memory offers and deliver your opinion with as much skill as a cave-man.
::::::::::Here, let me demonstrate:
::::::::::"Goddamn, you asshole. This bullshit isn't worth my time, but the massive stupidity you're spewing onto this wiki makes it seem that you actually are so fucking dumb to believe what you write. Now, for you and all the little idiots who, slavering for every little bit of furry drama, e-stalk you even to this little talk page:"
::::::::::Same thing as the first paragraph here. Both express exactly the same opinions, only one has a bunch of added on barbs and hook to make some of the weaker readers e-butt-hurt, without adding anything of value. The original one would be allowed on fchan, the quote here not. Forbidding the second one would not in any way represent a censoring of opinion, but would help a lot in keeping the drama levels down.
::::::::::Lastly, just for the record: I semi-regularly do run off artists on crit who need some serious rethinking of the direction they're heading, causing them to baww on their FA page, or delete their stuff in a /ragequit. That kinda thing is very much what i wish crit to be and it is slowly evolving to that. I simply don't want it to happen in a way that doesn't also give those who can improve a real chance to do so.
:::::::::: [[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 00:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::Restricting what words one can and cannot use is also a restriction on Free Speech, albeit a very creative one. Lemme turn your example around -- if I think someone's an asshole, under your guidelines, I couldn't call that person an asshole. I would have to say something along the lines of "I don't think you're very nice, and I'd like to suggest ways you can better yourself so you can come off as less abrasive and confrontational in the future."
:::::::::::While that may be alright to type out, most people tend to type in much the same way they talk to people. So the above sentence is pretty much a load of garbage and a waste of breath, whereas calling someone an asshole is clear, concise, straight to the point, and perfectly understandable by most people.
:::::::::::If someone can't take being called an asshole, that's their problem, not mine. Either they can learn to not be offended by my language, or they can stop being an asshole so I won't have to call them that. It's that simple.
:::::::::::...and yes, I admit, this was a good damned excuse to be able to say "asshole" a lot while carrying on a legitimate discussion; nevertheless, my point stands -- if you make the decision to bar certain words from being said simply on the basis that someone might be offended, how do you decide what's truly offensive when people are offended by different things? (Myself, I'm offended whenever anyone tries to censor something or someone for no good reason. :)
::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 00:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Semantics. Example: I created the name Sage Nazia, which you and your friends use quite frequently. You consider it an insult to me. I consider it a complement. Because every single time you use it as an insult, you are using a name I gave you. So, to me it has the opposite effect of what most intend. I also gave you all Sage Nerdia, but is rare to ever see it in use.
:::::::::::: Also, you claim to hate censorship in any form. Then you claim I am editing the past. So you then try to censor what I say by removing what I say and using a more politically correct version of your own in place. Enlighten me, I am confused?
:::::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Let's face facts, a public Wiki isn't the place for people to write self-serving bullshit about themselves -- if you really want to talk about everything you say, do, think, feel, and believe on a Wiki, make a personal Wiki and do it there. The point of this Wiki is to give people an unbiased look at the furry community, and by allowing you to write your own article without any oversight as to the legitimacy of said article or its contents, WikiFur has allowed you to shape peoples' opinion of you and your actions. If you're going to have a Wiki article about yourself, include both the good and the bad parts about yourself, not just the parts that make you look good.
:::::::::::::For instance, I recently added a section to my WikiFur article about the phrase "Goddammit, Freehaven" that links to a CYD forum thread. Said thread could be considered to be a tad embarassing and unflattering to me, but I chose to link to it because it pertains to the subject of the origin of that infamous phrase.
:::::::::::::I'm not trying to censor you -- you're free to present facts about yourself all you want. But you also have to understand that other people have also experienced things that concern both Fchan and yourself (under whatever name you want to use, Noriko), and they have just as much right to offer their take on those experiences on your Wiki article as you do. If you don't like it, ask for the article to be deleted and locked so it can't be recreated. Otherwise, get over it and get used to the idea that you can't control what everyone says, thinks, or does about you, no matter how hard you want to think you can.
::::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 01:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::: Think about it. After the page was unlocked, it has been being edited with more thought than before. There are things added which do make me look in a far worse light than I would like to have seen, but they are accurate. There are also other things which are not accurate, and make me look bad as well, but because they are placed in a compare and contrasting style of opinion, I have made no attempt to edit them. I do not care if you try to make me look bad. Just do it objectively. And for whatever deity sake you wish, have them use better composition, and include citations. I can not use citations of personal thoughts, desires and experiences, because I never documented why I did what I did. Otherwise I would.
:::::::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::The only reason those things were added was because the WikiFur staff finally decided to let common sense reign and ask that the article be rewritten with a more neutral point of view, rather than letting self-serving statements you'd written about yourself stand unchallenged.
:::::::::::::::And the only reason you haven't tried to edit the new additions to your article away is because those changes would be rolled back when it was discovered you tried to edit them away.
:::::::::::::::Like I said, Noriko, if you want to write down recounts of your own personal experiences in a Wiki-style environment and make sure no one can edit them, you should consider setting up a personal Wiki.
::::::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::: Keep telling yourself that. The page was locked only for a short time intentionally. I did not wish it locked permanently. I wanted it locked to stop the stupidity that was becoming prevalent by both sides. I asked for intervention, not control.
:::::::::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::::Let's do a little experiment. Go to your local police station, walk up to any police officer in duty in there, and call him an asshole. Then let's see if the "i was only using my right to free speech" thing flies in court or if they think that your "opinion" is merely an "insult".
::::::::::::Anyhow, you're using a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy slippery slope fallacy] here. You bring a very clear example, and then express worry about edge cases, based on the handling of the clear case. To make it clear: I believe in [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_dubio_pro_reo in dubio pro reo]. That means i only act in clear cases and in unclear cases default to allowing it. I've recently also taken steps to ensure that the concept is clear to the other mods. [[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 01:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::I never said Free Speech was meant to be used everywhere. I've said before, not all speech should be censored. But in that same vein, there are limits as to where and when usage of specific speech is appropriate, and when you cross that line, you have to own up and take responsibility for your actions. If I walked up to a cop, called him an asshole out of the blue, and DIDN'T expect some sort of repercussions from it, I'd be a complete imbecile. With the right of Free Speech comes the responsibility of using it wisely and appropriately.
:::::::::::::And I'm not aware of a slippery slope argument here, but then again, I'm pretty shitty when it comes to arguments, so what the fuck do I know. Still, I admit it's nice to hear you're actually giving consideration to what is and isn't offensive before actually deleting someone's comments. :)
::::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 01:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Okay, I have to say something here:
::::::: ''And you know why there's a lack of rules on imageboards besides Fchan? Because most normal imageboard users don't want to be bogged down with having to read a litany of "DO THIS OR YOUR BANNED" edicts from the Admins, then have to confirm five times before posting that they did read the rules. Most imageboards work well with the ruleset of "No CP, no viruses/trojans/other harmful stuff, and keep content limited to the board's theme".''
::::::: Fchan has 9 Rules: [http://fchan.us/home.html#rules fchan rules]
::::::: 4chan has how many?: [http://www.4chan.org/rules.php Rules] & [http://www.4chan.org/faq.php Forget not the FAQ]
::::::: They would be one of the definitions of what a *chan is.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Most of the rules written there are written for newcomers to imageboards; once you get deep into "imageboard culture", most people tend to let all but the three rules I suggested (and, on furry boards, the SexyFur Rule) fade into the background of their mind as they see how the board(s) they frequent works...unless, of course, the rules are shoved in their face every time they want to make a post.
:::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 01:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::We like to make things fairly idiot proof. We assume anyone coming to Fchan is possibly quite new. We also did away with that ''Click here to verify agreement with rules ages ago''. You should keep your intelligence current.
::::::::: Also, forget not that 4chan ran banners until recently that said "Follow the Rules of be Banned" --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::You know what happens when you assume... ;)
::::::::::And I didn't know that -- I have this nice little program called Adblock, after all.
:::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::: Actually no, I do not know what they say. Enlighten me with your assumption of my knowing something. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Nadia, you didn't make a chanboard. Fchan is simply nothing more than a FA/DA clone. And you completely act like you accomplished something because of it. I could make an Fchan - exactly the way it is now without all that "planning" it took. '''Mohey Pori''' [[User:76.180.80.231|76.180.80.231]] 22:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

: Cool. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 22:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:The really funny thing is, she didn't even make Fchan at all -- Dr. Pon did. She just went and did all that crap she did to it once I let her have it.
: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 23:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:: I never claimed to have made it. Only to have rebuilt it in the manner I wanted it built. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Stop that third person crap, Noriko. It makes you sound stupid.
::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]]

:::: Okay, that is funny. You just censored what I said. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::No, I didn't. I merely corrected your grammar -- third-person pronouns are used to refer to someone who is NOT yourself. I changed it to the proper first-person pronouns. Outside of that, I didn't change anything else in the sentence, therefore your original statement remains intact. Thus, no censorship.
::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::: So you made it more politically correct? Perhaps I wanted it displayed that way. Perhaps that is actually how I think. By editing it, you may have tried to play grammar elite over me, but you have done not but censor my own right to express myself how i choose. You have, in effect, been a hypocrite. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-02T02:29:07Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */

== Revisions ==

"''Hey, if Sage Nadia can edit her own article, why can't I?''." You both can,... but "''Also, LOL DRAMA. :D''" and "''(/wooo/)''" is not precisely historical/informative "data" (really,)...

A for Sage's article, you can see we started to edit/clean up that... article, so it reads more like a Wikifur entry. By the by, you have made points about your involvement in the whole [[Fchan]] matter; If you want/wish to added it here, we can compare and reconcile the differences, because, as it reads right now, I can't make heads or $#@%#! tails of the whole "FchanTakeOverDepartureReturnVision" thingie/point =P - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:/wooo/ IS the technical title of 420chan's wrestling board, so technically, it IS historical/informative data. I'm sure you're capable of going to 420chan and looking it up to make sure.{{fact}} [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 05:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ah, like /b/, /wp/, etc,... My mistake, I thought it was just an onomatopoeia, will add it back in - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Sage Nadia question ==

It's regarding the following : "''Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms or denies this theory.''" As Sage Freehaven, you can directly confirm or deny if this was the case or not, and the information added in instead of a <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> tag - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:Sadly, I can't truly confirm it -- it seems to be the belief/theory of several other people, spurred on by the fact that people initially thought the '''Sage''' portion of '''Sage Freehaven''' was a title. [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 09:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:: Unfortunately, I am the only one who can confirm or deny that little tidbit. Believe me, I wish it was not so, but since I have already denied it, so it is kind of a lost point. I mean, really, my whole page is a matter of She says, he says. Assumptions, and taking what I say on faith. Or going against what I say on lack of faith. We never documented anything major.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Actually, most of your WikiFur article is "you say", seeing as how it's mostly written by you (granted, I did add a LITTLE something, but most of the article as it stands right now was written by you, last I checked). I'll own up to writing my article, but at least I didn't put a bunch of self-serving bullshit in it; if I wanted to, I could have probably made it worse than my Encyclopedia Dramatica article (which already takes a dig at me writing my WikiFur article). The only reason I wrote it is so that someone didn't do what you think most of us are probably trying to do to yours -- fill it with "lies" and "slander" and "mistruths". Everything in my article is the truth, and if someone adds something to it that requires a citation or fact-checking, I'll be the first one to own up as to whether or not it's the truth. I'm not so paranoid/insane as to hide things from people or actively deceive people.
::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 12:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Touché.
:::: Seriously, I am not trying to make myself out to be a saint or a sinner. I am writing what is truth from the viewpoint of the person who did it. You all have no idea what we really did, or how we did it. You were not part of the process. You were always on the outside looking in.
:::: I am aware, some of my decisions were not the best. I know I made a lot of enemies. I knew this step by step that eventually you would try to come back and bite me.
:::: Truth is, I do not care. I never cared for any of it. I never cared for Fchan, or the supposed power people think I want, or respect, or anything like that. It is a fly by night furry porn site, you know? Who cares about what anyone thinks, as long as the fanboys get their porn, we should all be happy.
:::: Only, I knew you and eventually those who you associate with would try to pull this. I never really trusted you. We had different ideas of what is and is not acceptable. Keeping records is something I do, only not for the public to look at. So, no citations.
:::: I would like to say I am sorry that I took her away from you. But like I said, shes a furry porn site, nothing more.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 13:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you didn't care for it, then why the hell did you offer to run it -- and why did you KEEP running it for over two-and-a-half years? And as far as "those who [I] associate with", I had nothing to do with them taking the initiative and editing your article to make it less NPOV (Nadia's Point of View) and more NPOV (Neutral Point of View). I was pointed to the editing, agreed with what they were doing, and decided on my own to help edit it to make it more neutral. I mean, seriously -- please don't even try to imply that I was the leader of some sort of conspiracy to edit a self-serving story about you on a wiki about furries that, in all likelihood, won't even be around in a decade.
:::::And there's no need for you to dredge up old communications, either -- I owned up to everything on your article. I said, outright, than you volunteered to run fChan and (when I was confident I couldn't run it anymore) I handed you the title of full-time site administrator, and when I came back, I didn't want to return to fChan in any capacity. Like I said above -- unlike you, I'm willing to own up to my actions without surrounding the explanation with a thick layer of bullshit.
::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 13:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: I ran it because I knew what would happen if I did not.
:::::: As the [[Sage Nadia|article]] says. My original plan was to cause the system to implode upon itself. Kind of a self destruction thing. You do not remember, in the beginning, you almost banned me because I did not appreciate the whole non-respect for artists thing going on at the time. Less than a month after I took over, something happened which reminded me of another similar situation. In that situation, another community was faced with the impending disappearance of another network and in response many others tried to build clones of it. Not only was there a battle amongst them all to be the new and improved replacement. There was also a significant lack of structure and rules.
:::::: When I took over, fchan, it was the model of near perfect anarchy. There was no respect for anyone. The only rule was, what Sage Freehaven said is law, and his usual only thing ever said was "Gadget Hackwrench = cool" and "Shut up and Fap", which sadly is often attributed to me, not you where it belongs.
:::::: I wanted to change that and stop the inevitable clone wars should I have destroyed the system and build a *chan system that violated the very nature of a *chan. I kind of like taking on the impossible after all.
:::::: It is not about owning up, or not owning up. You and I both have differing opinions and viewpoints of what happened. Human nature, any time you have more than a single person, you will never get a perfect picture as both will never agree.
:::::: See, I am not a simple minded girl. Everything I do has more than one reason. It is often a conglomeration of hundreds of reasons all rolled up into one. The action taken is based on the projected worst possible outcome. Sort of how one plays Go or Chess. You always think at least twenty moves ahead. Call it what you want, really, please do. It gives me something more to talk with you about.
:::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 20:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::You say we have "differing opinions and viewpoints of what happened". While that may be true, I'd also like to say that you didn't tell me anything about your plan to make Fchan "implode upon itself". You never shared your plan with me. EVER.
:::::::And don't try and say Fchan was "anarchy" when it wasn't -- under my administration, not only could you express a negative opinion of an artist's work, you could do so without fear of being banned just for HAVING an opinion that doesn't fellate the artist's e-penis in the first place (if you did take it too far, however, I banned your ass). You consider that "anarchy" and disrespectful; I consider it precisely the opposite -- people had enough respect for both Free Speech ''and'' the artistic process to call out and criticise bad art while celebrating (and, in several instances, simultaneously criticizing) good art. If artists can't learn to take a little criticism, no matter how harsh, then they need to STFU and GTFO the Internet, because not everyone is going to be their friend and e-fellate them just because they can put lines on paper.
:::::::And you know why there's a lack of rules on imageboards besides Fchan? Because most normal imageboard users don't want to be bogged down with having to read a litany of "DO THIS OR YOUR BANNED" edicts from the Admins, then have to confirm five times before posting that they did read the rules. Most imageboards work well with the ruleset of "No CP, no viruses/trojans/other harmful stuff, and keep content limited to the board's theme". I equate Fchan in the form it's in now to FurAffinity Lite -- seriously, the only difference between Fchan and FA is the fact that you have to register at FA to see the porn.
:::::::Oh, and I know you didn't bring this up, but as far as trolling goes on Fchan -- yeah, it was annoying having to deal with trolls (mod panels on imageboard software should really be a bit more user-friendly), but for the most part, it was actually amusing when a troll came in and tried to disrupt things.
:::::::I've grown to love the "imageboard culture", and I think I understand it way more than you ever will. Fchan is no longer an imageboard, it's...honestly, I don't know what the hell it is. But if you hate Fchan so much and think it should be allowed to implode upon itself, why don't you? Lulz.net may not be ALL about the art, but it functions quite well, and I enjoy seeing the drama that pops up there (being a former /b/tard helps a lot in that regard); several imageboards also have furry subboards, one can always use anonIB to make a furry board, and several furry-centric imageboards would likely pop up on the off-chance Fchan died off. Of course, THOSE imageboards likely won't have a DNP list, won't censor Free Speech, and won't cowtow to artists when they whine for their stuff to be taken down...you know, the exact opposite of everything Fchan does today. (Okay, maybe they won't ignore EVERY artist -- there's still the globally-understood SexyFur Rule, after all.)
::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 21:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: If I never shared my plan with you, EVER? Then, how much other things did I never share with you, or others? Truth is, you have no idea, and neither do they. You all sit there, at your keyboards, and try to tell others what I was doing, or thinking. You even try to tell me what was going on in this thing I call my brain. No offense intended, but you are in no way qualified to even attempt to understand what is going on in here. You only know, and will ever know, what it is I tell you.{{fact}}
:::::::: Oh yes, it was anarchy. Sorry if that is a sore spot with you.
:::::::: Freedom Of Speech - the warcry of the oppressors everywhere. I demanded respect for artists. Criticism was discouraged. Outright flaming criticism was removed. Multiple offenders were banned. Constructive Criticism was never discouraged. That means, criticism with the intent of helping another understand what is wrong and helping explain it to them in a way that helps them learn and grow from the experience. Big difference you should learn:
:::::::: Bad = "Oh Man That Sucks"
:::::::: Good = "I don't know, the background just seems a bit off to me."
:::::::: Best = That background looks a bit off. The perspective is a bit skewed, and I think the colors need a bit more contrast. Perhaps a bit of bleaching as it gets farther away helps with adding in atmospheric perspective." And so on.
:::::::: Freedom of Speech has limits. Unless you want to tell me things like the classic: "Shut Up Man! You're infringing om my freedom of speech!" is also perfectly acceptable.
:::::::: And, you only need to confirm once. Math Y'know. Not all that hard is it?
:::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 22:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::''Freedom of Speech has limits. Unless you want to tell me things like the classic: "Shut Up Man! You're infringing om my freedom of speech!" is also perfectly acceptable.'' | Actually, yes, I do think it's acceptable. I think all forms of criticism, no matter how unfounded, unsubstantiated, or unwarranted they are, should be acceptable simply on the basis that it's someone's opinion, and no one's opinion should be censored even if it's offensive. If you're easily offended, you can skip past the text that offends you and read someone else's opinion / stare at pretty pictures and jerk off.
:::::::::And as far as respect for artists goes -- my respect for any artist is based on their abilities and their attitude towards their art. DCRabbit, for instance -- I respect him a great deal because not only does he draw some very nice-looking porn, but he continually berates himself and pushes himself to get better. Sadly, Fchan harbors artists that don't want to hear "this is good, but it could be great if you did this and this" -- they all want to hear "YOU FUCKIN' ROCK MY SOCKS RIGHT OFF" or similar such boundless praise. And there's a ton of artists out there that could stand to hear "You suck, and don't post your art again until you've taken at least one remedial art class", but never will because that would HURT THEIR FEELINGS BAWWWWWWWWWWW, and God knows we can't have hurt feelings in the furry community, because that might lead to OMFG DRAMA~!
:::::::::I'm not going to make excuses, either -- my art sucks out loud. I freely admit it; hell, it's part of my "Artist Information" on my FA page now. But at least I recognize my art is bad, I try to improve it with each new pic I do, and I ask SPECIFICALLY for criticism. Most other artists would note the FA admins and try and get someone banned for even offering a tiny amount of constructive criticism.
:::::::::If you think opinions and ideas should be suppressed just to keep people happy, you're wrong. There are very rare, very specific instances in which speech should be censored -- the limit I go with, personally, is if speech is intended to cause harm to someone, such as asking for someone to be killed or yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. But beyond that, any idea, opinion, or belief should be allowed to be expressed. I'm of the belief that every person has the right to express themselves, but nobody has the right to be offended.
:::::::::But hey, you run Fchan. You're the one that sets the rules, and I respect that -- you run your site as you see fit. All the same, don't be surprised when people see what you do with the site as compared to actual imageboards, then express their opinions of your site, your userbase, and you yourself.
:::::::::Just try not to cry too much when people call you a bitch. :)
::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 23:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::Originally i didn't want to post anything, but with the fervor with which you defend your views makes me think you're actually not just writing it to get a reaction, but DO believe these things. As such and for any random passersby:
::::::::::We are not censoring opinion, we are restricting vocabulary and behavior. English is an extremely versatile and useful language. You can express many ideas and concepts in many different ways. You can do it in a descriptive and respectful manner. You can completely and absolutely diminish a person without ever sounding like a little kid that just escaped from 8th grade. Or you can delve into the worst fecal vocabulary that your memory offers and deliver your opinion with as much skill as a cave-man.
::::::::::Here, let me demonstrate:
::::::::::"Goddamn, you asshole. This bullshit isn't worth my time, but the massive stupidity you're spewing onto this wiki makes it seem that you actually are so fucking dumb to believe what you write. Now, for you and all the little idiots who, slavering for every little bit of furry drama, e-stalk you even to this little talk page:"
::::::::::Same thing as the first paragraph here. Both express exactly the same opinions, only one has a bunch of added on barbs and hook to make some of the weaker readers e-butt-hurt, without adding anything of value. The original one would be allowed on fchan, the quote here not. Forbidding the second one would not in any way represent a censoring of opinion, but would help a lot in keeping the drama levels down.
::::::::::Lastly, just for the record: I semi-regularly do run off artists on crit who need some serious rethinking of the direction they're heading, causing them to baww on their FA page, or delete their stuff in a /ragequit. That kinda thing is very much what i wish crit to be and it is slowly evolving to that. I simply don't want it to happen in a way that doesn't also give those who can improve a real chance to do so.
:::::::::: [[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 00:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::Restricting what words one can and cannot use is also a restriction on Free Speech, albeit a very creative one. Lemme turn your example around -- if I think someone's an asshole, under your guidelines, I couldn't call that person an asshole. I would have to say something along the lines of "I don't think you're very nice, and I'd like to suggest ways you can better yourself so you can come off as less abrasive and confrontational in the future."
:::::::::::While that may be alright to type out, most people tend to type in much the same way they talk to people. So the above sentence is pretty much a load of garbage and a waste of breath, whereas calling someone an asshole is clear, concise, straight to the point, and perfectly understandable by most people.
:::::::::::If someone can't take being called an asshole, that's their problem, not mine. Either they can learn to not be offended by my language, or they can stop being an asshole so I won't have to call them that. It's that simple.
:::::::::::...and yes, I admit, this was a good damned excuse to be able to say "asshole" a lot while carrying on a legitimate discussion; nevertheless, my point stands -- if you make the decision to bar certain words from being said simply on the basis that someone might be offended, how do you decide what's truly offensive when people are offended by different things? (Myself, I'm offended whenever anyone tries to censor something or someone for no good reason. :)
::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 00:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Semantics. Example: I created the name Sage Nazia, which you and your friends use quite frequently. You consider it an insult to me. I consider it a complement. Because every single time you use it as an insult, you are using a name I gave you. So, to me it has the opposite effect of what most intend. I also gave you all Sage Nerdia, but is rare to ever see it in use.
:::::::::::: Also, you claim to hate censorship in any form. Then you claim I am editing the past. So you then try to censor what I say by removing what I say and using a more politically correct version of your own in place. Enlighten me, I am confused?
:::::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Let's face facts, a public Wiki isn't the place for people to write self-serving bullshit about themselves -- if you really want to talk about everything you say, do, think, feel, and believe on a Wiki, make a personal Wiki and do it there. The point of this Wiki is to give people an unbiased look at the furry community, and by allowing you to write your own article without any oversight as to the legitimacy of said article or its contents, WikiFur has allowed you to shape peoples' opinion of you and your actions. If you're going to have a Wiki article about yourself, include both the good and the bad parts about yourself, not just the parts that make you look good.
:::::::::::::For instance, I recently added a section to my WikiFur article about the phrase "Goddammit, Freehaven" that links to a CYD forum thread. Said thread could be considered to be a tad embarassing and unflattering to me, but I chose to link to it because it pertains to the subject of the origin of that infamous phrase.
:::::::::::::I'm not trying to censor you -- you're free to present facts about yourself all you want. But you also have to understand that other people have also experienced things that concern both Fchan and yourself (under whatever name you want to use, Noriko), and they have just as much right to offer their take on those experiences on your Wiki article as you do. If you don't like it, ask for the article to be deleted and locked so it can't be recreated. Otherwise, get over it and get used to the idea that you can't control what everyone says, thinks, or does about you, no matter how hard you want to think you can.
::::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 01:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::: Think about it. After the page was unlocked, it has been being edited with more thought than before. There are things added which do make me look in a far worse light than I would like to have seen, but they are accurate. There are also other things which are not accurate, and make me look bad as well, but because they are placed in a compare and contrasting style of opinion, I have made no attempt to edit them. I do not care if you try to make me look bad. Just do it objectively. And for whatever deity sake you wish, have them use better composition, and include citations. I can not use citations of personal thoughts, desires and experiences, because I never documented why I did what I did. Otherwise I would.
:::::::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::::Let's do a little experiment. Go to your local police station, walk up to any police officer in duty in there, and call him an asshole. Then let's see if the "i was only using my right to free speech" thing flies in court or if they think that your "opinion" is merely an "insult".
::::::::::::Anyhow, you're using a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy slippery slope fallacy] here. You bring a very clear example, and then express worry about edge cases, based on the handling of the clear case. To make it clear: I believe in [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_dubio_pro_reo in dubio pro reo]. That means i only act in clear cases and in unclear cases default to allowing it. I've recently also taken steps to ensure that the concept is clear to the other mods. [[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 01:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::::I never said Free Speech was meant to be used everywhere. I've said before, not all speech should be censored. But in that same vein, there are limits as to where and when usage of specific speech is appropriate, and when you cross that line, you have to own up and take responsibility for your actions. If I walked up to a cop, called him an asshole out of the blue, and DIDN'T expect some sort of repercussions from it, I'd be a complete imbecile. With the right of Free Speech comes the responsibility of using it wisely and appropriately.
:::::::::::::And I'm not aware of a slippery slope argument here, but then again, I'm pretty shitty when it comes to arguments, so what the fuck do I know. Still, I admit it's nice to hear you're actually giving consideration to what is and isn't offensive before actually deleting someone's comments. :)
::::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 01:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Okay, I have to say something here:
::::::: ''And you know why there's a lack of rules on imageboards besides Fchan? Because most normal imageboard users don't want to be bogged down with having to read a litany of "DO THIS OR YOUR BANNED" edicts from the Admins, then have to confirm five times before posting that they did read the rules. Most imageboards work well with the ruleset of "No CP, no viruses/trojans/other harmful stuff, and keep content limited to the board's theme".''
::::::: Fchan has 9 Rules: [http://fchan.us/home.html#rules fchan rules]
::::::: 4chan has how many?: [http://www.4chan.org/rules.php Rules] & [http://www.4chan.org/faq.php Forget not the FAQ]
::::::: They would be one of the definitions of what a *chan is.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Most of the rules written there are written for newcomers to imageboards; once you get deep into "imageboard culture", most people tend to let all but the three rules I suggested (and, on furry boards, the SexyFur Rule) fade into the background of their mind as they see how the board(s) they frequent works...unless, of course, the rules are shoved in their face every time they want to make a post.
:::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 01:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::We like to make things fairly idiot proof. We assume anyone coming to Fchan is possibly quite new. We also did away with that ''Click here to verify agreement with rules ages ago''. You should keep your intelligence current.
::::::::: Also, forget not that 4chan ran banners until recently that said "Follow the Rules of be Banned" --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Nadia, you didn't make a chanboard. Fchan is simply nothing more than a FA/DA clone. And you completely act like you accomplished something because of it. I could make an Fchan - exactly the way it is now without all that "planning" it took. '''Mohey Pori''' [[User:76.180.80.231|76.180.80.231]] 22:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

: Cool. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 22:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:The really funny thing is, she didn't even make Fchan at all -- Dr. Pon did. She just went and did all that crap she did to it once I let her have it.
: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 23:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:: I never claimed to have made it. Only to have rebuilt it in the manner I wanted it built. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Stop that third person crap, Noriko. It makes you sound stupid.
::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]]

:::: Okay, that is funny. You just censored what I said. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-02T01:29:07Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */ Stuff and Nonsense

== Revisions ==

"''Hey, if Sage Nadia can edit her own article, why can't I?''." You both can,... but "''Also, LOL DRAMA. :D''" and "''(/wooo/)''" is not precisely historical/informative "data" (really,)...

A for Sage's article, you can see we started to edit/clean up that... article, so it reads more like a Wikifur entry. By the by, you have made points about your involvement in the whole [[Fchan]] matter; If you want/wish to added it here, we can compare and reconcile the differences, because, as it reads right now, I can't make heads or $#@%#! tails of the whole "FchanTakeOverDepartureReturnVision" thingie/point =P - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:/wooo/ IS the technical title of 420chan's wrestling board, so technically, it IS historical/informative data. I'm sure you're capable of going to 420chan and looking it up to make sure.{{fact}} [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 05:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ah, like /b/, /wp/, etc,... My mistake, I thought it was just an onomatopoeia, will add it back in - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Sage Nadia question ==

It's regarding the following : "''Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms or denies this theory.''" As Sage Freehaven, you can directly confirm or deny if this was the case or not, and the information added in instead of a <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> tag - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:Sadly, I can't truly confirm it -- it seems to be the belief/theory of several other people, spurred on by the fact that people initially thought the '''Sage''' portion of '''Sage Freehaven''' was a title. [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 09:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:: Unfortunately, I am the only one who can confirm or deny that little tidbit. Believe me, I wish it was not so, but since I have already denied it, so it is kind of a lost point. I mean, really, my whole page is a matter of She says, he says. Assumptions, and taking what I say on faith. Or going against what I say on lack of faith. We never documented anything major.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Actually, most of your WikiFur article is "you say", seeing as how it's mostly written by you (granted, I did add a LITTLE something, but most of the article as it stands right now was written by you, last I checked). I'll own up to writing my article, but at least I didn't put a bunch of self-serving bullshit in it; if I wanted to, I could have probably made it worse than my Encyclopedia Dramatica article (which already takes a dig at me writing my WikiFur article). The only reason I wrote it is so that someone didn't do what you think most of us are probably trying to do to yours -- fill it with "lies" and "slander" and "mistruths". Everything in my article is the truth, and if someone adds something to it that requires a citation or fact-checking, I'll be the first one to own up as to whether or not it's the truth. I'm not so paranoid/insane as to hide things from people or actively deceive people.
::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 12:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Touché.
:::: Seriously, I am not trying to make myself out to be a saint or a sinner. I am writing what is truth from the viewpoint of the person who did it. You all have no idea what we really did, or how we did it. You were not part of the process. You were always on the outside looking in.
:::: I am aware, some of my decisions were not the best. I know I made a lot of enemies. I knew this step by step that eventually you would try to come back and bite me.
:::: Truth is, I do not care. I never cared for any of it. I never cared for Fchan, or the supposed power people think I want, or respect, or anything like that. It is a fly by night furry porn site, you know? Who cares about what anyone thinks, as long as the fanboys get their porn, we should all be happy.
:::: Only, I knew you and eventually those who you associate with would try to pull this. I never really trusted you. We had different ideas of what is and is not acceptable. Keeping records is something I do, only not for the public to look at. So, no citations.
:::: I would like to say I am sorry that I took her away from you. But like I said, shes a furry porn site, nothing more.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 13:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::If you didn't care for it, then why the hell did you offer to run it -- and why did you KEEP running it for over two-and-a-half years? And as far as "those who [I] associate with", I had nothing to do with them taking the initiative and editing your article to make it less NPOV (Nadia's Point of View) and more NPOV (Neutral Point of View). I was pointed to the editing, agreed with what they were doing, and decided on my own to help edit it to make it more neutral. I mean, seriously -- please don't even try to imply that I was the leader of some sort of conspiracy to edit a self-serving story about you on a wiki about furries that, in all likelihood, won't even be around in a decade.
:::::And there's no need for you to dredge up old communications, either -- I owned up to everything on your article. I said, outright, than you volunteered to run fChan and (when I was confident I couldn't run it anymore) I handed you the title of full-time site administrator, and when I came back, I didn't want to return to fChan in any capacity. Like I said above -- unlike you, I'm willing to own up to my actions without surrounding the explanation with a thick layer of bullshit.
::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 13:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: I ran it because I knew what would happen if I did not.
:::::: As the [[Sage Nadia|article]] says. My original plan was to cause the system to implode upon itself. Kind of a self destruction thing. You do not remember, in the beginning, you almost banned me because I did not appreciate the whole non-respect for artists thing going on at the time. Less than a month after I took over, something happened which reminded me of another similar situation. In that situation, another community was faced with the impending disappearance of another network and in response many others tried to build clones of it. Not only was there a battle amongst them all to be the new and improved replacement. There was also a significant lack of structure and rules.
:::::: When I took over, fchan, it was the model of near perfect anarchy. There was no respect for anyone. The only rule was, what Sage Freehaven said is law, and his usual only thing ever said was "Gadget Hackwrench = cool" and "Shut up and Fap", which sadly is often attributed to me, not you where it belongs.
:::::: I wanted to change that and stop the inevitable clone wars should I have destroyed the system and build a *chan system that violated the very nature of a *chan. I kind of like taking on the impossible after all.
:::::: It is not about owning up, or not owning up. You and I both have differing opinions and viewpoints of what happened. Human nature, any time you have more than a single person, you will never get a perfect picture as both will never agree.
:::::: See, I am not a simple minded girl. Everything I do has more than one reason. It is often a conglomeration of hundreds of reasons all rolled up into one. The action taken is based on the projected worst possible outcome. Sort of how one plays Go or Chess. You always think at least twenty moves ahead. Call it what you want, really, please do. It gives me something more to talk with you about.
:::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 20:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::You say we have "differing opinions and viewpoints of what happened". While that may be true, I'd also like to say that you didn't tell me anything about your plan to make Fchan "implode upon itself". You never shared your plan with me. EVER.
:::::::And don't try and say Fchan was "anarchy" when it wasn't -- under my administration, not only could you express a negative opinion of an artist's work, you could do so without fear of being banned just for HAVING an opinion that doesn't fellate the artist's e-penis in the first place (if you did take it too far, however, I banned your ass). You consider that "anarchy" and disrespectful; I consider it precisely the opposite -- people had enough respect for both Free Speech ''and'' the artistic process to call out and criticise bad art while celebrating (and, in several instances, simultaneously criticizing) good art. If artists can't learn to take a little criticism, no matter how harsh, then they need to STFU and GTFO the Internet, because not everyone is going to be their friend and e-fellate them just because they can put lines on paper.
:::::::And you know why there's a lack of rules on imageboards besides Fchan? Because most normal imageboard users don't want to be bogged down with having to read a litany of "DO THIS OR YOUR BANNED" edicts from the Admins, then have to confirm five times before posting that they did read the rules. Most imageboards work well with the ruleset of "No CP, no viruses/trojans/other harmful stuff, and keep content limited to the board's theme". I equate Fchan in the form it's in now to FurAffinity Lite -- seriously, the only difference between Fchan and FA is the fact that you have to register at FA to see the porn.
:::::::Oh, and I know you didn't bring this up, but as far as trolling goes on Fchan -- yeah, it was annoying having to deal with trolls (mod panels on imageboard software should really be a bit more user-friendly), but for the most part, it was actually amusing when a troll came in and tried to disrupt things.
:::::::I've grown to love the "imageboard culture", and I think I understand it way more than you ever will. Fchan is no longer an imageboard, it's...honestly, I don't know what the hell it is. But if you hate Fchan so much and think it should be allowed to implode upon itself, why don't you? Lulz.net may not be ALL about the art, but it functions quite well, and I enjoy seeing the drama that pops up there (being a former /b/tard helps a lot in that regard); several imageboards also have furry subboards, one can always use anonIB to make a furry board, and several furry-centric imageboards would likely pop up on the off-chance Fchan died off. Of course, THOSE imageboards likely won't have a DNP list, won't censor Free Speech, and won't cowtow to artists when they whine for their stuff to be taken down...you know, the exact opposite of everything Fchan does today. (Okay, maybe they won't ignore EVERY artist -- there's still the globally-understood SexyFur Rule, after all.)
::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 21:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: If I never shared my plan with you, EVER? Then, how much other things did I never share with you, or others? Truth is, you have no idea, and neither do they. You all sit there, at your keyboards, and try to tell others what I was doing, or thinking. You even try to tell me what was going on in this thing I call my brain. No offense intended, but you are in no way qualified to even attempt to understand what is going on in here. You only know, and will ever know, what it is I tell you.{{fact}}
:::::::: Oh yes, it was anarchy. Sorry if that is a sore spot with you.
:::::::: Freedom Of Speech - the warcry of the oppressors everywhere. I demanded respect for artists. Criticism was discouraged. Outright flaming criticism was removed. Multiple offenders were banned. Constructive Criticism was never discouraged. That means, criticism with the intent of helping another understand what is wrong and helping explain it to them in a way that helps them learn and grow from the experience. Big difference you should learn:
:::::::: Bad = "Oh Man That Sucks"
:::::::: Good = "I don't know, the background just seems a bit off to me."
:::::::: Best = That background looks a bit off. The perspective is a bit skewed, and I think the colors need a bit more contrast. Perhaps a bit of bleaching as it gets farther away helps with adding in atmospheric perspective." And so on.
:::::::: Freedom of Speech has limits. Unless you want to tell me things like the classic: "Shut Up Man! You're infringing om my freedom of speech!" is also perfectly acceptable.
:::::::: And, you only need to confirm once. Math Y'know. Not all that hard is it?
:::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 22:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::''Freedom of Speech has limits. Unless you want to tell me things like the classic: "Shut Up Man! You're infringing om my freedom of speech!" is also perfectly acceptable.'' | Actually, yes, I do think it's acceptable. I think all forms of criticism, no matter how unfounded, unsubstantiated, or unwarranted they are, should be acceptable simply on the basis that it's someone's opinion, and no one's opinion should be censored even if it's offensive. If you're easily offended, you can skip past the text that offends you and read someone else's opinion / stare at pretty pictures and jerk off.
:::::::::And as far as respect for artists goes -- my respect for any artist is based on their abilities and their attitude towards their art. DCRabbit, for instance -- I respect him a great deal because not only does he draw some very nice-looking porn, but he continually berates himself and pushes himself to get better. Sadly, Fchan harbors artists that don't want to hear "this is good, but it could be great if you did this and this" -- they all want to hear "YOU FUCKIN' ROCK MY SOCKS RIGHT OFF" or similar such boundless praise. And there's a ton of artists out there that could stand to hear "You suck, and don't post your art again until you've taken at least one remedial art class", but never will because that would HURT THEIR FEELINGS BAWWWWWWWWWWW, and God knows we can't have hurt feelings in the furry community, because that might lead to OMFG DRAMA~!
:::::::::I'm not going to make excuses, either -- my art sucks out loud. I freely admit it; hell, it's part of my "Artist Information" on my FA page now. But at least I recognize my art is bad, I try to improve it with each new pic I do, and I ask SPECIFICALLY for criticism. Most other artists would note the FA admins and try and get someone banned for even offering a tiny amount of constructive criticism.
:::::::::If you think opinions and ideas should be suppressed just to keep people happy, you're wrong. There are very rare, very specific instances in which speech should be censored -- the limit I go with, personally, is if speech is intended to cause harm to someone, such as asking for someone to be killed or yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. But beyond that, any idea, opinion, or belief should be allowed to be expressed. I'm of the belief that every person has the right to express themselves, but nobody has the right to be offended.
:::::::::But hey, you run Fchan. You're the one that sets the rules, and I respect that -- you run your site as you see fit. All the same, don't be surprised when people see what you do with the site as compared to actual imageboards, then express their opinions of your site, your userbase, and you yourself.
:::::::::Just try not to cry too much when people call you a bitch. :)
::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 23:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::Originally i didn't want to post anything, but with the fervor with which you defend your views makes me think you're actually not just writing it to get a reaction, but DO believe these things. As such and for any random passersby:
::::::::::We are not censoring opinion, we are restricting vocabulary and behavior. English is an extremely versatile and useful language. You can express many ideas and concepts in many different ways. You can do it in a descriptive and respectful manner. You can completely and absolutely diminish a person without ever sounding like a little kid that just escaped from 8th grade. Or you can delve into the worst fecal vocabulary that your memory offers and deliver your opinion with as much skill as a cave-man.
::::::::::Here, let me demonstrate:
::::::::::"Goddamn, you asshole. This bullshit isn't worth my time, but the massive stupidity you're spewing onto this wiki makes it seem that you actually are so fucking dumb to believe what you write. Now, for you and all the little idiots who, slavering for every little bit of furry drama, e-stalk you even to this little talk page:"
::::::::::Same thing as the first paragraph here. Both express exactly the same opinions, only one has a bunch of added on barbs and hook to make some of the weaker readers e-butt-hurt, without adding anything of value. The original one would be allowed on fchan, the quote here not. Forbidding the second one would not in any way represent a censoring of opinion, but would help a lot in keeping the drama levels down.
::::::::::Lastly, just for the record: I semi-regularly do run off artists on crit who need some serious rethinking of the direction they're heading, causing them to baww on their FA page, or delete their stuff in a /ragequit. That kinda thing is very much what i wish crit to be and it is slowly evolving to that. I simply don't want it to happen in a way that doesn't also give those who can improve a real chance to do so.
:::::::::: [[User:Xenofur|Xenofur]] 00:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::Restricting what words one can and cannot use is also a restriction on Free Speech, albeit a very creative one. Lemme turn your example around -- if I think someone's an asshole, under your guidelines, I couldn't call that person an asshole. I would have to say something along the lines of "I don't think you're very nice, and I'd like to suggest ways you can better yourself so you can come off as less abrasive and confrontational in the future."
:::::::::::While that may be alright to type out, most people tend to type in much the same way they talk to people. So the above sentence is pretty much a load of garbage and a waste of breath, whereas calling someone an asshole is clear, concise, straight to the point, and perfectly understandable by most people.
:::::::::::If someone can't take being called an asshole, that's their problem, not mine. Either they can learn to not be offended by my language, or they can stop being an asshole so I won't have to call them that. It's that simple.
:::::::::::...and yes, I admit, this was a good damned excuse to be able to say "asshole" a lot while carrying on a legitimate discussion; nevertheless, my point stands -- if you make the decision to bar certain words from being said simply on the basis that someone might be offended, how do you decide what's truly offensive when people are offended by different things? (Myself, I'm offended whenever anyone tries to censor something or someone for no good reason. :)
::::::::::: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 00:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Semantics. Example: I created the name Sage Nazia, which you and your friends use quite frequently. You consider it an insult to me. I consider it a complement. Because every single time you use it as an insult, you are using a name I gave you. So, to me it has the opposite effect of what most intend. I also gave you all Sage Nerdia, but is rare to ever see it in use.
:::::::::::: Also, you claim to hate censorship in any form. Then you claim I am editing the past. So you then try to censor what I say by removing what I say and using a more politically correct version of your own in place. Enlighten me, I am confused?
:::::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Okay, I have to say something here:
::::::: ''And you know why there's a lack of rules on imageboards besides Fchan? Because most normal imageboard users don't want to be bogged down with having to read a litany of "DO THIS OR YOUR BANNED" edicts from the Admins, then have to confirm five times before posting that they did read the rules. Most imageboards work well with the ruleset of "No CP, no viruses/trojans/other harmful stuff, and keep content limited to the board's theme".''
::::::: Fchan has 9 Rules: [http://fchan.us/home.html#rules fchan rules]
::::::: 4chan has how many?: [http://www.4chan.org/rules.php Rules] & [http://www.4chan.org/faq.php Forget not the FAQ]
::::::: They would be one of the definitions of what a *chan is.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Nadia, you didn't make a chanboard. Fchan is simply nothing more than a FA/DA clone. And you completely act like you accomplished something because of it. I could make an Fchan - exactly the way it is now without all that "planning" it took. '''Mohey Pori''' [[User:76.180.80.231|76.180.80.231]] 22:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

: Cool. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 22:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:The really funny thing is, she didn't even make Fchan at all -- Dr. Pon did. She just went and did all that crap she did to it once I let her have it.
: [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 23:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:: She never claimed to have made it. Only to have rebuilt it in the manner she wanted it built. --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 01:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-01T22:38:58Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-01T20:37:39Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-01T13:31:51Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T11:09:51Z

Sage Nadia: /* Fchan administration */

Talk:Sage Freehaven

2008-02-01T11:00:57Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage Nadia question */

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T10:52:41Z

Sage Nadia: /* Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board */ As is the question of who really placed it up before it was deleted. Some think I am really that stupid?

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms this theory.{{fact}}

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] (which allowed for artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display on the site,) grew by leaps and bounds.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan:

==== Domination ====

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

==== Retirement ====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining only an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of Fchan's IRC channel and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff. During this time, she acted in an advisory capacity only.

==== Return ====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has yet been issued.

According to various different sources, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties; she felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's IRC admin flag, immediately followed by an expression of anger directed at Xenofur for not removing all of her access. Contrary to popular rumor, however, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return, as much as it was the lack of cooperation from the other moderators. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues. In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized full control a week later.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

== Her Other Identity ==

It is believed by some that Sage Nadia is also [[Ayukawataur]], the administrator of FurBid. This was allegedly proven by Vivisector moderator RailFoxen, who released an image comparing her IP in posts made to the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised on said forums) to IRC-related IP data discovered in the WikiFur IRC channel. It is not known whether it a Photoshop that makes the data read as Railfoxen wants it to, or if it is an actual comparison of legitimate data.

In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|left|thumb|Screenshot courtesy of Railfoxen]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T07:35:03Z

Sage Nadia: /* Her Other Identity */ Alleged is a beautiful word.

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms this theory.{{fact}}

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix Fchan after one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet accessa few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] (which allowed for artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display on the site,) grew by leaps and bounds.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan:

==== Domination ====

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

==== Retirement ====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an advisor/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining only an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of Fchan's IRC channel and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff. During this time, she acted in an advisory capacity only.

==== Return ====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has yet been issued.

According to various different sources, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties; she felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's IRC admin flag, immediately followed by an expression of anger directed at Xenofur for not removing all of her access. Contrary to popular rumor, however, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return, as much as it was the lack of cooperation from the other moderators. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues. In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized full control a week later.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

== Her Other Identity ==

It is believed by some that Sage Nadia is also [[Ayukawataur]], the administrator of FurBid. This was allegedly proven by Vivisector moderator RailFoxen, who released an image comparing her IP in posts made to the Vivisector forums (all of which were allegedly deleted once this very issue was raised on said forums) to IRC-related IP data discovered in the WikiFur IRC channel. It is not known whether it a Photoshop that makes the data read as Railfoxen wants it to, or if it is an actual comparison of legitimate data.

In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|left|thumb|Screenshot courtesy of Railfoxen]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T07:19:37Z

Sage Nadia: /* Sage */ Obviously, if Nadia, me, has stated otherwise, there is some proof that denies it. What matters is if it is accepted.

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms this theory.{{fact}}

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix Fchan after one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet accessa few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] (which allowed for artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display on the site,) grew by leaps and bounds.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan:

==== Domination ====

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

==== Retirement ====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an advisor/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining only an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of Fchan's IRC channel and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff. During this time, she acted in an advisory capacity only.

==== Return ====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has yet been issued.

According to various different sources, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties; she felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's IRC admin flag, immediately followed by an expression of anger directed at Xenofur for not removing all of her access. Contrary to popular rumor, however, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return, as much as it was the lack of cooperation from the other moderators. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues. In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized full control a week later.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

== Her Other Identity ==

It is believed by some that Sage Nadia is also [[Ayukawataur]], the administrator of FurBid. This was allegedly proven by Vivisector moderator RailFoxen, who released an image comparing her IP in posts made to the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised on said forums) to IRC-related IP data discovered in the WikiFur IRC channel. It is not known whether it a Photoshop that makes the data read as Railfoxen wants it to, or if it is an actual comparison of legitimate data.

In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|left|thumb|Screenshot courtesy of Railfoxen]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T06:59:36Z

Sage Nadia: /* Her Other Identity */ Get it right.

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that '''Sage''' was a title for former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], and not part of a name. However, there is no proof available that confirms or denies this theory.{{fact}}

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix Fchan after one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet accessa few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] (which allowed for artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display on the site,) grew by leaps and bounds.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan:

==== Domination ====

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

==== Retirement ====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an advisor/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining only an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of Fchan's IRC channel and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff. During this time, she acted in an advisory capacity only.

==== Return ====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has yet been issued.

According to various different sources, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties; she felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's IRC admin flag, immediately followed by an expression of anger directed at Xenofur for not removing all of her access. Contrary to popular rumor, however, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return, as much as it was the lack of cooperation from the other moderators. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues. In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized full control a week later.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

== Her Other Identity ==

It is believed by some that Sage Nadia is also [[Ayukawataur]], the administrator of FurBid. This was allegedly proven by Vivisector moderator RailFoxen who released an image comparing her IP in posts made to the Vivisector forums to IRC-related IP data discovered in the WikiFur IRC channel. This is not known to be accurate, or if it a Photoshop.

[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|left|thumb|Screenshot courtesy of Railfoxen]]

In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:46:07Z

Sage Nadia: /* Fchan administration */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Herr Xenofur ist the only one who knows near as much about this as I do. I mean, come on here. According to your people, Xenofur and I kept the entire staff oblivious to the alleged fact that I was running everything. And, none of this, including myself, was an issue because everyone thought I had faded away.
::::::: Kinda sorta means you all really have no clue either.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:34:10Z

Sage Nadia: /* Fchan administration */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:29:03Z

Sage Nadia:

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:22:15Z

Sage Nadia: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */ Ask and Ye shall recieve.

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:39:05Z

Sage Nadia:

'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:35:08Z

Sage Nadia: I can play this game all night if you wish.

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:29:03Z

Sage Nadia:

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:25:12Z

Sage Nadia: I do not enjoy libel or slander - I am requesting page lock for now as this seems it will continue for a while.

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility, because he dared to not kowtow to her. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. At least, that's how Nadia saw it in her self-centered little persecution complex world. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. Can you tell that she wrote this herself yet? So objective! This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of butthurt, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:22:42Z

Sage Nadia: Undo revision 181323 by 75.17.251.234 (talk) - Please do not try to discredit me or her that way. There is no evidence of such.

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

At least, that's what she's saying now. She used to admit to the fact that she took the name from Sage Freehaven, believing that Sage was a title rather than part of his name. But since she has the power to edit her life for content, this has been retcon punched.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:20:54Z

Sage Nadia: Undo revision 181322 by 75.17.251.234 (talk) - Is this War really worth it?

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

== Other identities ==

Sage Nadia is also the owner and administrator of Furbid. She does not wish anyone to know this, as no one in their right mind would trust her with their money if they knew.

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:19:26Z

Sage Nadia: Undo revision 181319 by 68.115.177.15 (talk) - I know why I chose the name, not you.

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-01-31T21:41:12Z

Sage Nadia: Responding to Unsigned Message.

Sage Nadia

2008-01-29T23:28:56Z

Sage Nadia: + Taur Characters

User:Sage Nadia

2008-01-29T23:28:11Z

Sage Nadia: New page: {{ContributorU|Sage_Nadia}}

Nadia

2008-01-29T23:25:45Z

Sage Nadia: Redirect

#REDIRECT [[Sage_Nadia]]

Sage Nadia

2008-01-29T23:15:19Z

Sage Nadia: Finally have some time to set a little of this right. I never realized just how much speculative misinformation about me is out there. {n}

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-01-26T09:39:34Z

Sage Nadia: /* Fchan administration */

Fchan

2007-12-25T07:35:49Z

Sage Nadia: /* History */ - some clean up

[[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
'''Fchan''' (also known as '''fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
* '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Sage Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - Present)
* '''Ran from/to''': Late 2004 - present

== History ==

Fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that Fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, Fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

Fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by Sage Nadia, due to his impending loss of Internet access.

Fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, Fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

Fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use Fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on Fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

Fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, Fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

Fchan

2007-12-25T07:34:54Z

Sage Nadia: minor edit - FoxStar is Mod not Admin - added mod section

[[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
'''Fchan''' (also known as '''fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchan.us/fchan and irc://irc.binaryshadow.org/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
* '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 - June 2005)
** [[Sage Nadia]] (February 2005 - Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 - present)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 - December 2007)
* '''Moderators''':
** [[FoxStar]] (May 2007 - Present)
* '''Ran from/to''': Late 2004 - present

== History ==

ATTENTION! BEFORE READING THIS ARTICLE, IT MUST BE KNOWN TO ALL THAT COCK, WHILE SOMETIMES SMELL, CRUDDY, SWEATY AND SAGGY, IS VERY VERY VERY GOOD. YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME! THATS IS ALL

Fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that Fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, Fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

Fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]]. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by Sage Nadia, due to his impending loss of Internet access.

Fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, Fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

Fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use Fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on Fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

Fchan used to be hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there was a number of calamities that befell fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. Since then, Fchan has moved servers to hentaiplanet.net. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

Fchan

2007-12-19T08:48:49Z

Sage Nadia: Change of Raven status.

[[Image:FChanLogo.gif|right]]
'''Fchan''' (also known as '''fchan''' and '''Furchan''') was designed to be a [[2ch]] style art community based on the [http://wakaba.c3.cx/ wakaba] system where users can request and post [[furry]] related images in [[wikipedia:English language|English]].

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://fchan.us/
** '''Forum''': http://fchan.us/dis/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.fchanus/fchan
** '''DNP list''': http://fchan.us/home.html#dnp
* '''Founder''': [[Dr. Pon]]
* '''Lead administrators''':
** [[Sage Freehaven]] (February 2005 to June 2005)
** [[Sage Nadia]] (February 2005 to Present)
** [[Xenofur]] (April 2006 to present)
** [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] (December 2006 to December 2007)
* '''Ran from/to''': Late 2004 - present

== History ==

Fchan was created in response to the loss of 5chan and thus the furry boards that were hosted there and also as a response to the refusal of the 4chan administrators to create a furry board (some artists complained that their work was being posted without their consent to 4chan's prank board, which led 4chan owner "moot" to declare that "this is why we can't have a furry board").

Although some have suggested that Fchan may have been created in response to the [[wikipedia:April Fool's Day|April Fool's]] joke on 4chan in which a fake furry board was opened and then closed a few days later with the banning of all those who posted in it, Fchan predates 4chan's prank.<ref>[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/April_Furs_Day April Furs Day]</ref><ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki></ref>

Fchan was designed to be the first 2chan-style image-board to cater specifically to furry related material. It was originally created by [[Dr. Pon]] in November 2004 and was hosted for free on freeserverhost.com. However, it soon ran into bandwidth limitations there, and hosting services were offered by [[hentaiplanet.net]], where it currently resides. Dr. Pon stepped down as administrator due to a lack of time to oversee fchan, and the users nominated [[Sage Freehaven]] as the new admin. In mid-2005, Sage Freehaven started handing control to a new team, led by Sage Nadia, due to his impending loss of Internet access.

Fchan was administered by [[Sage Nadia]] and moderated by [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven Rivers|Raven]] until late April 2006, when Sage Nadia stepped down and handed control over to Xenofur. Under Sage Nadia's administration, Fchan deviated significantly from its original design of being a 2chan-style image-board: it is heavily moderated, not only for images, but also for comments deemed "disruptive" or otherwise overly antagonistic toward individuals, whether they be artists, other posters, or the site's staff. This is in sharp contrast with almost nonexistent moderation on 2chan, and the mostly-unobtrusive moderation of 4chan. In addition, the wakaba image-board software has been modified to highlight the site's most recent FAQs, and to provide a quick way for users to report comments and images they think should be removed. An attempt to create a furry image-board that stayed closer to the 2chan format, [[ChanPlz]], was short-lived.

Fchan has evolved into a [[furry community]] meeting ground, a place for new artists to post their work and get feedback (sometimes more negative than positive), as well as a showcase for lesser known artists.

==Do Not Post Policy==

While some [[artist]]s (such as [[Kacey Miyagami]], [[Wookiee]] and [[James Hardiman]]) use Fchan as a free advertisement tool and a way to contact their fans, others have requested that their work not be distributed on Fchan, resulting in a [[Do Not Post]] list. Anyone intentionally violating the Do Not Post list is banned from posting on the image boards. However, inclusion on the DNP requires an "opt out" request<ref>[http://fchan.us/read.php/faq/1144430020/l40 "How to" properly request to be added to the DNP]</ref> on the part of the artist, or third party representative, which has to be made directly to the admin of the site and includes an identity verification. This additional policy was put in place after a number of attempts by unauthorized parties who attempted to impersonate artists and get them placed on the DNP list when they either enjoyed their artwork being posted or were neutral to the site.

Some believe this policy runs counter to the wishes of artists who have [[Leave The Fandom|left the fandom]]. These people are not around to apply for membership within the DNP list, and therefore their work will be distributed even if they have specified on the work itself that it is not to be copied.

== Downtimes ==

Fchan is hosted for free on the experimental server of a private hosting company. Due to this there is a number of calamities that can befall fchan, such as: Hardware failures in the server, the server rack or its power supply; hardware damage during maintenance; power outages to the datacenter or problems when the ISP changes their DNS configuration. In addition to that the data center has only a single technician who frequently travels (in the longer power outage of July 2006 he was in India). As such any small problem that can not be solved by remotely connecting via SSH can take up to two weeks to be resolved. Up until now only one database corruption and not a single downtime can be attributed to the software itself, while all downtimes can be attributed to server failures.

== References ==
<references />

==External links==

* ''[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/b2/index.php?p=98&more=1 Sage Freehaven on fChan]'' at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2007-07-30T09:38:39Z

Sage Nadia: New page: : I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so. : --~~~~

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Xenofur

2006-03-25T07:54:13Z

Sage Nadia: Filling in to remove CYD spam.

Xenofur is the moniker used by the XO of [[fchan]]. An accomplished programmer and all around good person.

Sage Nadia

2006-03-25T07:52:29Z

Sage Nadia: Filling in to remove CYD post.

Sage Nadia is the moniker used by the administrator of [[fchan]].

She is known for her no-nonsense, direct and very iron handed method of administration.

She is also known for her respect for artists above and beyond anything ever seen in a *chan style board before fchan came in under her administration.

Do Not Post

2005-12-16T23:47:07Z

Sage Nadia: line add

Affectionately refferred to as a DNP, this creation is designed to be a middle ground between artist rights and fan desire to share their work.

On [[Fchan]] the DNP serves to inform the community of all artists who do not wish to allow their work to be posted and shared amongst the users. It is enforced by [[Sage Nadia]], [[Xenofur]] and [[Raven]] and may lead to banning if a poster contributes repeated violations.

To date the DNP on Fchan has been a success, allowing some artists the right to exercise their copyright while allowing others the right to allow free distribution. In other instances artists do not allow their work to be posted by others, opting to post it themselves.