WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Evil Sibe

2009-07-07T07:58:03Z

Gray Coyote: spacing error

Evil Sibe

2009-07-07T07:31:31Z

Gray Coyote: /* Controversy */ Added AFF ban and explanation for said ban.

Evil Sibe

2008-01-26T20:10:38Z

Gray Coyote: Edits thus far have had perjorative statements of facts not in evidence, and POV statements. Reverting article back to before massive editing.

[[Image:Sibe friend.JPG|right|thumb|325px|Sibe (left) and friend]]
'''Sibe''', also known as '''EvilSibe''', or '''Sibe Roo''' on [[FurNation Worlds]] (real name: '''Ross Herbert Reddick''') is a member of the [[furry]] community who has participated in various [[Newsgroup|newsgroups]], [[Image board|image boards]], and [[Multiplayer worlds|multiplayer worlds]].

He is a moderator at [[Lulz.net]], while his chosen avatar is that of a [[Siberian Husky]], the [[dog]] breed from which he derived his name.

== Controversy ==

==== Trolling and wares ====

Sibe has gained widespread infamy in the [[furry fandom]] through his uncivil demeanor towards other fandom members, and his illegal distribution of the copyrighted works of several [[:Category:Artists|furry artists]] from 2001 through 2006, that has permanently cemented his current reputation with the fandom with this subsequent actions.

==== Bans ====

He also has the dubious unique honor of having been banned by at a major and some minor [[convention]]s - [[Further Confusion]]. This apparently did not prevent him from continuing to attend, and allegedly, "cause more problems"<ref>http://www.furtherconfusion.org/forums/msg.php?th=482</ref> for Further Confusion and other conventions. He was present with the knowledge of con staff at [[ConiFur]] 2004.

Sibe has also been [[Toading|toaded]] from [[Tapestries MUCK]] on numerous occasions, initially due to harassment and advertisement of his pirated CDs, later compounded by organizing a [[Wikipedia:Distributed Denial of Service|DDoS]] on the MUCK server. According to [[WhiteWizard]], "Nobody comes close to Sibe [on toading]. Sibe is how we find out about all the new free-mail sites."<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=7150&rid=&S=032610e07d6e92af23206b06dc0f9525</ref>

The comic ''[[West Corner Of the Park (comic)|West Corner of the Park]]'' has depicted Sibe as a giant slug,<ref>http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20060319</ref><ref>http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20011110</ref><ref>http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20020107</ref> although this includes an element of artistic license.

==== Timeline ====

[[Image:Sibe.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe: "Big snugly husky dog that luvs everyone. <3"]]
*'''9 December 1995''': Sibe arrested for Domestic Violence Assault in the Fourth Degree against his father. He was sentenced to three months probation, 16 hours community service (time served), and lost his right to possess firearms in Washington State. Terms of his probation include not engaging in unwanted physical contact with family members and others.
*'''6 March 1996''': Sibe is again arrested for DV-Assault 4 against his father. The hearing was delayed due to him being checked into a psychiatric institution in the state of Idaho. It is currently unknown how long he was in the institution. A warrant was issued for his arrest for failure to appear and was valid for almost 18 months until he filed for quashing the warrant on his 18th birthday for the juvenile court's lack of jurisdiction. The King County Prosecutor's office declined to prosecute him in adult court for that incident and the case was dismissed.
*'''8 September 1998''': Sibe makes his first post onto the [[alt.lifestyle.furry]] newsgroup. The posting was about the first [[Conifur]] that occurred at the SeaTac Clarion Hotel in SeaTac, Washington. Claims were made in regards to Sibe's perceived discrimination against him for not wearing enough furry related things at Conifur. The truthfulness of the postings is in dispute.
*'''19 January 1999''': Sibe makes his first post in [[alt.fan.furry]], again critical of the furry fandom for his treatment and launching attacks on furry lifestylers.
*'''6 March 2001''': After Sibe had already lost the right to possess firearms in the state of Washington, he is arrested for violating ORS (short for Oregon Revised Statute) 166.370, possession of a loaded firearm in a public building, specifically Herald College in Portland, OR. He possessed a shotgun on the grounds of an educational institution in his duffel bag, which is illegal unless you fall into one of the exceptions in the statute. He is given pre-trial intervention/diversion, where if he had not been arrested for any further crimes, his charge would have been dismissed.
[[Image:PafSibeBadge.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[Chris Goodwin]]]]
*'''3 October 2001''': [[Killen]] alleges that Sibe's disagreements with him resulted in the flooding of [[northUKfurs (IRC)|#northUKfurs]] on [[Yiffnet]] by Sibe's associates. Sibe has stated that although he has attacked other IRC channels in the past, he did not attack this one. Some instances of IRC downtime have been misattributed to Sibe in the past, for example an attack on #dragonyiff on [[FurNet (IRC)|FurNet]] that was led by [[Something Awful]] [[goon]]s.
*'''9 November 2001''': [[Nexxus]] temporarily closed [[FurNation]], [http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490 allegedly] as the result of Sibe's pirating actions (which may have been based on FurNation archives). These were centered around [[yiffnetbeats (IRC)|#yiffnetbeats]] on [[Yiffnet]], where Sibe and others offered files for download. The channel was initially designed to be a furry theme MP3 sharing channel. Ironically, Nexxus' post about the channel caused a spike in traffic, with over 50 users in one night and 5GB distributed in 8 hours by one serving user.
*'''18 March 2002''': After disagreements and a fight, Sibe forcibly took the car of a person named Brian Floyd (unaffiliated with the [[furry fandom]]) with whom he was staying, and made Brian give him access to his (Brian's) PIN number. According to the order of protection filed against Sibe to keep him away after his acts of violence against him, he then threatened Brian that he would make him disappear if he called the cops. After Sibe left, Brian called 911. Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown [[Wikipedia:Portland, Oregon|Portland]] to spend the cash at a gay night club and dance bar called the ''[http://www.silveradopdx.com/ Silverado]''. After spending the money at the bar, he drove to [[Wikipedia:Camas, Washington|Camas, Washington]] with one of the dancers from the bar. At approximately 7 a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges). He spent a week in jail, was bailed out, then re-arrested when he appeared in court in Oregon. He later pleaded no contest to the Class C felony of coercion in exchange for his 5 other charges (including the 2001 shotgun arrest) getting dismissed and was sentenced to 36 months probation with credit for time served (45 days in Multnomah County Jail).
*'''May 2002''': A warrant is issued for the arrest of Sibe for failure to appear in court in Issaquah, Washington in regards to his reckless driving charge. This was not taken care of until September 2004.
*'''3 May 2002''': A hearing is held in regards to possible release. His attorney identifies Sibe as having significant psychiatric problems, including being diagnosed as having bipolar disorder by two different psychiatrists in his youth. Disciplinary problems include: Fighting, flooding his cell with water causing $1500 worth of damage, failing to follow directions of jail deputies. As a result of his disciplinary problems, he was put under lock-down. Judge Beckman orders the jail to allow a psychiatrist into the jail for his psychiatric care.
*'''5 December 2002''': Sibe is sentenced to 36 months of probation plus time served, and is ordered to obey all laws, restricted internet usage, and to not use drugs, among other provisions.
*'''9 November 2003''': One of [fxc]'s (Furries Exchanging Comics), the furry [[wikipedia:Warez|warez]] group that Sibe founded, had a home at irc.rizon.net #furryxdcc. Shortly after this date they released their first releases, including ''[[Furnation Magazine]]'' 1-4 , [[Fred Perry]]'s folios and [[Max The Black Rabbit]]'s ''Canine Portfolio''. The group proclaimed that they were the premier group for scanning in commercial furry content. At one point there was a furry [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|BitTorrent]] tracker up at www.f-x-c.net, which saw 3,000 individuals sign up world wide to download packs of scanned furry comics, retail art CD's and portfolios of the top [[furry artist|artists]] in the fandom.
[[Image:WhiteWolfSibeBadgeforweb.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[WhiteWolf]]]]
*'''30 August 2004''': [[Rabbit Valley|Rabco Publishing (Rabbit Valley)]] files a claim against Ross Reddick in Waltham, MA small claims court for $2,000 in damages for replication and distribution of copyrighted material. These damages are awarded on '''14 December 2004''', and the defendant is ordered to pay a total of $2,109.70 including legal fees and interest.
*'''13 September 2004''': Sibe (as EvilSibe and any other identity he will ever create for the purpose) is permanently banned from the [[Something Awful]] Forums. His ban was due to his sarcastic comments to [[Richard "Lowtax" Kyanka|LowTax]] (The Something Awful SysAdmin) during the [[Brian Sek]] and [[The Kadaitcha Dancers]] "I'm being stalked by furries" thread.
*'''November 2004''': Sibe moves to Bellevue, Washington from Portland, Oregon and did not notify his probation judge.
*'''6 December 2004''': Sibe is sentenced to 1 year of probation by the King County District Court for his reckless driving case from 2001.
*'''28 December 2004''': After being unable to find Sibe's current address due to lack of notification of his move to Washington State in late November 2004, and failing to appear to a probation hearing due to a report of illegal activities by the [[Wikipedia:Federal Bureau of Investigation|FBI]], Judge Douglas Beckman of the Multnomah County Circuit Court issues a warrant for Sibe's arrest with no bail allowed. The warrant was not extraditable outside of Oregon.
*'''24 January 2005''': A warrant is issued for Sibe's arrest by the trial court of Waltham, Massachusetts for failure to appear to the payment hearing from his default judgment against him by Rabbit Valley Publishing.
*'''16 June 2005''': Sibe was [http://www.ljdrama.org/index.php?p=1155 featured] on ljdrama.org for "[[Sibeing]]" Munchie the kitsune after he traveled cross country to find what he thought was an older woman, who turned out to be a 14 year old boy. Sibe made a prank call with all of the parties involved.<ref>[http://www.ljdrama.org/index.php?p=1155 LJ post regarding Sibe and Munchie]</ref><ref>[http://www.squnq.com/junk/munchies_problem.mp3 [[Wikipedia:MP3|MP3]] of the conversation between Sibe and Munchie]</ref>
*'''18 July 2005''': Sibe (as ''evilsibe'') was suspended from LiveJournal.com for posting an image from the website thepiratebay.org which linked to the ''"fxc" encyclopedia 2004'', a [[Wikipedia:Bittorrent|torrent]] that had 9.55 gigs of [[furry art]] in it, including the works of [[Ken Sample]], [[Karabiner]], [[Grimal]], [[FoxxFire]] and many more. When he created a new journal to circumvent the suspension, he was permanently banned. He later moved to GreatestJournal.com, where his tag-line was ''sibeing the fandom one wag at a time''.
*'''September 2005''': Sibe moves back to Portland, Oregon from Bellevue, Washington. He does not notify his probation judge in Washington of his new address in Oregon. In this month his Oregon warrant was also updated to extraditable from Washington, Idaho, and Western Montana as part of a change in policy in regards dealing with felony offenses against persons in Oregon, due to the ability of criminals previous to this to run to Washington and evade capture.
*'''9/10 September 2005''': "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph ''"As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrant on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested,'' announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at [[Nexxus]], and ends it by professing his love for his family, and thanks his friends for being there for him. His friends reactions is mixed, with a few believing its a prank, to those who believe it truly happening, and what can they do to help. Its this last reaction that forces Sibe to admit that the whole thing was ''"a gag and Im allright."'' Again, reaction to this admission is mixed: from the "I knew it, Lol!," to the "How dare you deceive your friends that care for you!." For the last ones, Sibe had a simple response: ''"Fuck em if they cant take a joke then."''
*'''13 January 2006''': Sibe was verbally served with a [[Wikipedia:Restraining order|restraining order]] through [[AAE]], the parent non-profit corporation of Further Confusion, which effectively made all grounds of the Hotel hosting FC 2006 off limits to Sibe, under penalty of immediate arrest. The timing of the restraining order (starting on the 20th) was such that he was not able to contest it until 2 February 2006, well after the convention was over. The result was that he did not attend the convention, despite suggestions from others that he was present, and in contrast to previous years (in which Sibe had been banned, but still attended).
[[Image:Darknatashasibebadgelowres5km.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[Dark Natasha]]]]
*'''5 February 2006''': Sibe was booked into Multnomah County (Oregon) Justice Center by officers of the [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] for the warrant issued on 28 December 2004. As he now had a fixed address (Multnomah County Justice Center), he was process-served for various lawsuits and orders of protection. Despite speculation on various sites that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log indicated that he committed a new domestic violence offense, particularly against his mate Bound Wolf, the real reason why Multnomah County Sheriff's noted the DV-Coercion in his booking file was due to the charge that he was convicted of in 2002 in exchange for his plea of no contest. Whether this was intentional or an error on their part is unknown.
*'''14 February 2006''': Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted, though not by Sibe since he was still in custody at the time. It was not suspended by Greatest Journal, which leads to speculation of possible evidence tampering.
*'''17 February 2006''': A hearing for violation of probation is convened at 9:30AM at Multnomah County Circuit Courthouse. Judge Douglas Beckman presiding. Sibe stipulates to evading the warrant for his arrest and continued to abscond, use of internet outside of Judge Beckman's authorization, and stipulation to the use of marijuana, as well as traffic violations. Judge Beckman, during the defense attorney's statements about Sibe's accomplishments of having a job for nearly a year, brought up the issue of police reports filed for sexual abuse and misconduct by four different persons, including the father of a 2 year old girl who accused Sibe of sexually abusing his daughter. The father of the 2 year old was deported and as a result the case was dropped due to the lack of witnesses (the daughter was removed from the country by ICE with her father). His computer is ordered seized and turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for forensic examination. The hearing is held over until 7 March 2006 for hearing. Sibe offers up a Compaq laptop as his personal computer.
*'''7 March 2006''': Due to Sibe's misrepresenting to the court that his Compaq laptop was his only personal computer (the FBI forensics examiners determined that the computer was a "brick," "ancient", and had only been used three times since 2003 for dial up usage), along with the stipulations to his violations of probation, he receives a 6 month jail sentence for the probation violations, plus 3 years' parole. His 30 days held at the Multnomah County (Oregon) Justice Center thus far does not count as time served toward this sentence due primarily to his misrepresentation to the court.
*'''23 March 2006''': An email is sent from [http://www.vinelink.com VINElink] victim notification services that he was released from Oregon Department of Corrections. However, he is still in Multnomah County Jail until 3 September 2006 according to Multnomah County Jail Custody Records, and his other entries into VINElink indicate that he is still in the custody of Multnomah County Jail. A search through [http://www.inmatereleases.org/ Multnomah County Jail Inmate Early Releases Database] indicates that he has not been released, either.
*'''1 September 2006''': Sibe is released from jail and put under the supervision of the Oregon Department of Corrections for a period of 3 years. The slightly early release is due to the calculated release date not being on a government business day.
*'''12 May 2007''': Sibe announces that a warrant for his arrest has been issued, as he has avoided seeing his probation officer due to continued failures to pass a [[Wikipedia:urinalysis|urinalysis]] since the prior September.<ref>''[http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/112095.html Warrant for my arrest], Sibe (12 May 2007)</ref> He suggests that he is likely to do "a little time in county", and offers to post his address so people can write to him in jail. He is listed as an absconder from community supervision on VINElink.<ref name="VINElink">[http://www.vinelink.com/ VINElink offender detail] (search Oregon for Ross Reddick), accessed 19 August 2007</ref>
*'''28 May 2007''': Sibe is permanently banned from the [[FurAffinity]]'s forums.<ref>[http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/113080.html Sibe talks about his FurAffinity ban on his Greatest Journal]</ref><ref>[http://lulz.net/furi/res/53642.html Sibe talks about his FurAffinity ban on his [[Lulz.net]]]</ref>
*'''17 August 2007''': Sibe reports that he is banned from [[FurJAM]] 2007 - possibly due to his promotion of a pirated copy of ''[[Softpaw Magazine|Softpaw]]'' #2 - despite having no intention to go to Australia for the event.<ref>''[http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/131616.html Banned from a con in australia]'' - Sibe (17 August 2007)</ref> This ban turned out to be fake, the e-mail being a doctored version of one the organisers of FurJAM sent to Australian fur [[Timon b]]. Who forwarded the mail to Sibe, and at what point Sibe's name appeared on it, are unclear, but Sibe's publicising of it had the effect of flooding the FurJAM forums and polls. The number of votes in the polls went from fifteen to over 100 in a period of 2 days, and as such sections of the site were closed.{cite}
*'''18 August 2007''': Sibe is taken into custody under the previous warrant, and enters the [http://www.norcor.co.wasco.or.us/ Northern Oregon Regional Correctional Facilities] (NORCOR).<ref name="VINElink" />
*'''22 August 2007''': VINElink reports that Sibe has been released from NORCOR, and is back in the custody of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office.<ref name="VINElink" />
*'''?? August 2007''': Sibe is released again from jail into the general population. He resumes his duties as a Lulz.net moderator.

== References ==
<references/>
* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/976ed1874bd7f212 The latest on Sibe]'', an [[alt.fan.furry]] posting from 2002 by Brian Floyd about Sibe's actions.
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20011025103610/http://nuk.ufuria.org/031001_sibe.txt Log of the attack alleged to be by Sibe on #northUKfurs]
* [http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=20&c2coff=1&q=author%3Arreddi60%40hotmail.com&safe=off&qt_s=Search Various newsgroup postings by Sibe] (not a complete archive)
* Court's ruling in the case of Rabco Publishing vs Ross H. Reddick (Docket Number 200451SC000862). [PDF]
* [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/cf36a8715d11e5e5/dd808e8f2f0ea7b1 Sibe's criminal record] 
* [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/8634.html Sibe's confirmation and denial of some of the things mentioned in a previous version of this article]
* ''[http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=734 Rumors spread - Sibe behind bars?]'' at [[Flayrah]]
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/a3448f750f043334 An interview of Sibe] by [[RuheMaus]]
* [http://www.furtherconfusion.org/forums/msg.php?th=327 A conversation] between Sibe and [[WhiteFire]] about his banning from [[Further Confusion]] 2003; includes link to [http://photobucket.com/albums/v454/evilsibe/Conifur/ Sibe's avatar, and pictures of Conifur 2004] - password: sibepix
* ''[http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fur.artwork.erotica/browse_frm/thread/cf337a53011d6eea My conifur 2004 experience]''
*The posts, [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/19766.html (1)] and [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/20156.html (2)], about the "fake" arrest incident. (Marked as deleted)
*The [http://www.furryfandom.com/fc06sibe.mp3 first audio message] of the intent of serving Sibe with an restraining order through AAE on behalf of Further Confusion.
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furrtive/381797.html Details regarding Sibe's arrest for probation violation in February, 2006] (marked as deleted)
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lifestyle.furry/browse_thread/thread/1d3ecabc4f948b29/5e7ebe37bf896975?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#5e7ebe37bf896975 Sibe's first post on alt.lifestyle.furry]
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/1beb4306a6581045/3f6123536f89e30c Sibe's first post on alt.fan.furry]

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Sibe}}
* [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/ ''Sibeing the fandom one wag at a time'',] Sibe's [[GreatestJournal]] (as EvilSibe)
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIUME4orE Sibe's video interview] with [[Fredryk Phox]], late 2004
* [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1085115341022161983&hl=en Google video of Sibe and friends] discussing his ban from [[Further Confusion 2005]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Husky characters]]
{{Featured article}}

Gray Coyote

2008-01-26T19:57:55Z

Gray Coyote:

'''Gray Coyote''' (born 1981) is a [[furry]] from [[Wikipedia:Washington|Washington]], U.S.A.

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Gray Coyote}}
* [http://graycoyote.livejournal.com/ ''The Gray Coyote's Journal of DOOM!''], Gray Coyote's [[LiveJournal]]
{{person-stub}}

[[Category:People]][[Category:Coyote characters]]
[[Category:Washington]]
[[Category:1981 births]]

Evil Sibe

2007-08-21T05:07:02Z

Gray Coyote: /* Controversy timeline */ Changed to reflect actual location with photo proof.

[[Image:Sibe.png|right|thumb|Ross Herbert Reddick, aka Sibe]]
'''Sibe''', also known as '''EvilSibe''', or '''Sibe Roo''' on [[FurNation Worlds]] (real name: '''Ross Herbert Reddick''') is a member of the [[furry]] community who has participated in various [[:Category:Newsgroups|newsgroups]], [[Category:Mature_image_boards|image boards]], and [[:Category:Multiplayer worlds|multiplayer worlds]]. He is a moderator at [[Lulz.net]], his chosen avatar is that of a [[Siberian Husky]], the [[dog]] breed from which he derived his name.

== Reputation ==

==== Trolling and wares ====

Sibe has gained widespread infamy in the [[furry fandom]] through his uncivil demeanor towards other fandom members, and his illegal distribution of the copyrighted works of several [[:Category:Artists|furry artists]] from 2001 through 2006, that has permanently cemented his current reputation with the fandom with this subsequent actions.

==== Bans ====

He also has the dubious unique honor of having been banned by at least two major and some minor [[convention]]s - [[Eurofurence]] and [[Further Confusion]] - since 2002. This apparently did not prevent him from continuing to attend, and allegedly, "cause more problems"<ref>http://www.furtherconfusion.org/forums/msg.php?th=482</ref> for Further Confusion and other conventions. He was present with the knowledge of con staff at [[ConiFur]] 2004.

Sibe has also been [[Toading|toaded]] from [[Tapestries MUCK]] on numerous occasions, initially due to harassment and advertisement of his pirated CDs, later compounded by organizing a [[Wikipedia:Distributed Denial of Service|DDoS]] on the MUCK server. According to [[WhiteWizard]], "Nobody comes close to Sibe [on toading]. Sibe is how we find out about all the new free-mail sites."<ref>http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=7150&rid=&S=032610e07d6e92af23206b06dc0f9525</ref>

The comic ''[[West Corner Of the Park (comic)|West Corner of the Park]]'' has depicted Sibe as a giant slug,<ref>http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20060319</ref><ref>http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20011110</ref><ref>http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20020107</ref> although this includes an element of artistic license.

== Controversy timeline ==

[[Image:Sibe.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe: "Big snugly husky dog that luvs everyone. <3"]]
*'''9 December 1995''': Sibe arrested for Domestic Violence Assault in the Fourth Degree against his father. He was sentenced to three months probation, 16 hours community service (time served), and lost his right to possess firearms in Washington State. Terms of his probation include not engaging in unwanted physical contact with family members and others.
*'''6 March 1996''': Sibe is again arrested for DV-Assault 4 against his father. The hearing was delayed due to him being checked into a psychiatric institution in the state of Idaho. It is currently unknown how long he was in the institution. A warrant was issued for his arrest for failure to appear and was valid for almost 18 months until he filed for quashing the warrant on his 18th birthday for the juvenile court's lack of jurisdiction. The King County Prosecutor's office declined to prosecute him in adult court for that incident and the case was dismissed.
*'''8 September 1998''': Sibe makes his first post onto the [[alt.lifestyle.furry]] newsgroup. The posting was about the first [[Conifur]] that occurred at the SeaTac Clarion Hotel in SeaTac, Washington. Claims were made in regards to Sibe's perceived discrimination against him for not wearing enough furry related things at Conifur. The truthfulness of the postings is in dispute.
*'''19 January 1999''': Sibe makes his first post in [[alt.fan.furry]], again critical of the furry fandom for his treatment and launching attacks on furry lifestylers.
*'''6 March 2001''': After Sibe had already lost the right to possess firearms in the state of Washington, he is arrested for violating ORS (short for Oregon Revised Statute) 166.370, possession of a loaded firearm in a public building, specifically Herald College in Portland, OR. He possessed a shotgun on the grounds of an educational institution in his duffel bag, which is illegal unless you fall into one of the exceptions in the statute. He is given pre-trial intervention/diversion, where if he had not been arrested for any further crimes, his charge would have been dismissed.
[[Image:PafSibeBadge.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[Chris Goodwin]]]]
*'''3 October 2001''': [[Killen]] alleges that Sibe's disagreements with him resulted in the flooding of [[northUKfurs (IRC)|#northUKfurs]] on [[Yiffnet]] by Sibe's associates. Sibe has stated that although he has attacked other IRC channels in the past, he did not attack this one. Some instances of IRC downtime have been misattributed to Sibe in the past, for example an attack on #dragonyiff on [[FurNet (IRC)|FurNet]] that was led by [[Something Awful]] [[goon]]s.
*'''9 November 2001''': [[Nexxus]] temporarily closed [[FurNation]], [http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490 allegedly] as the result of Sibe's pirating actions (which may have been based on FurNation archives). These were centered around [[yiffnetbeats (IRC)|#yiffnetbeats]] on [[Yiffnet]], where Sibe and others offered files for download. The channel was initially designed to be a furry theme MP3 sharing channel. Ironically, Nexxus' post about the channel caused a spike in traffic, with over 50 users in one night and 5GB distributed in 8 hours by one serving user.
*'''18 March 2002''': After disagreements and a fight, Sibe forcibly took the car of a person named Brian Floyd (unaffiliated with the [[furry fandom]]) with whom he was staying, and made Brian give him access to his (Brian's) PIN number. According to the order of protection filed against Sibe to keep him away after his acts of violence against him, he then threatened Brian that he would make him disappear if he called the cops. After Sibe left, Brian called 911. Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown [[Wikipedia:Portland, Oregon|Portland]] to spend the cash at a gay night club and dance bar called the ''[http://www.silveradopdx.com/ Silverado]''. After spending the money at the bar, he drove to [[Wikipedia:Camas, Washington|Camas, Washington]] with one of the dancers from the bar. At approximately 7 a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges). He spent a week in jail, was bailed out, then re-arrested when he appeared in court in Oregon. He later pleaded no contest to the Class C felony of coercion in exchange for his 5 other charges (including the 2001 shotgun arrest) getting dismissed and was sentenced to 36 months probation with credit for time served (45 days in Multnomah County Jail).
*'''May 2002''': A warrant is issued for the arrest of Sibe for failure to appear in court in Issaquah, Washington in regards to his reckless driving charge. This was not taken care of until September 2004.
*'''3 May 2002''': A hearing is held in regards to possible release. His attorney identifies Sibe as having significant psychiatric problems, including being diagnosed as having bipolar disorder by two different psychiatrists in his youth. Disciplinary problems include: Fighting, flooding his cell with water causing $1500 worth of damage, failing to follow directions of jail deputies. As a result of his disciplinary problems, he was put under lock-down. Judge Beckman orders the jail to allow a psychiatrist into the jail for his psychiatric care.
*'''5 December 2002''': Sibe is sentenced to 36 months of probation plus time served, and is ordered to obey all laws, restricted internet usage, and to not use drugs, among other provisions.
*'''9 November 2003''': One of [fxc]'s (Furries Exchanging Comics), the furry [[wikipedia:Warez|warez]] group that Sibe founded, had a home at irc.rizon.net #furryxdcc. Shortly after this date they released their first releases, including ''[[Furnation Magazine]]'' 1-4 , [[Fred Perry]]'s folios and [[Max The Black Rabbit]]'s ''Canine Portfolio''. The group proclaimed that they were the premier group for scanning in commercial furry content. At one point there was a furry [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|BitTorrent]] tracker up at www.f-x-c.net, which saw 3,000 individuals sign up world wide to download packs of scanned furry comics, retail art CD's and portfolios of the top [[furry artist|artists]] in the fandom.
[[Image:WhiteWolfSibeBadgeforweb.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[WhiteWolf]]]]
*'''30 August 2004''': [[Rabbit Valley|Rabco Publishing (Rabbit Valley)]] files a claim against Ross Reddick in Waltham, MA small claims court for $2,000 in damages for replication and distribution of copyrighted material. These damages are awarded on '''14 December 2004''', and the defendant is ordered to pay a total of $2,109.70 including legal fees and interest.
*'''13 September 2004''': Sibe (as EvilSibe and any other identity he will ever create for the purpose) is permanently banned from the [[Something Awful]] Forums. His ban was due to his sarcastic comments to [[Richard "Lowtax" Kyanka|LowTax]] (The Something Awful SysAdmin) during the [[Brian Sek]] and [[The Kadaitcha Dancers]] "I'm being stalked by furries" thread.
*'''November 2004''': Sibe moves to Bellevue, Washington from Portland, Oregon and did not notify his probation judge.
*'''6 December 2004''': Sibe is sentenced to 1 year of probation by the King County District Court for his reckless driving case from 2001.
*'''28 December 2004''': After being unable to find Sibe's current address due to lack of notification of his move to Washington State in late November 2004, and failing to appear to a probation hearing due to a report of illegal activities by the [[Wikipedia:Federal Bureau of Investigation|FBI]], Judge Douglas Beckman of the Multnomah County Circuit Court issues a warrant for Sibe's arrest with no bail allowed. The warrant was not extraditable outside of Oregon.
*'''24 January 2005''': A warrant is issued for Sibe's arrest by the trial court of Waltham, Massachusetts for failure to appear to the payment hearing from his default judgment against him by Rabbit Valley Publishing.
*'''16 June 2005''': Sibe was [http://www.ljdrama.org/index.php?p=1155 featured] on ljdrama.org for "[[Sibeing]]" Munchie the kitsune after he traveled cross country to find what he thought was an older woman, who turned out to be a 14 year old boy. Sibe made a prank call with all of the parties involved.<ref>[http://www.ljdrama.org/index.php?p=1155 LJ post regarding Sibe and Munchie]</ref><ref>[http://www.squnq.com/junk/munchies_problem.mp3 [[Wikipedia:MP3|MP3]] of the conversation between Sibe and Munchie]</ref>
*'''18 July 2005''': Sibe (as ''evilsibe'') was suspended from LiveJournal.com for posting an image from the website thepiratebay.org which linked to the ''"fxc" encyclopedia 2004'', a [[Wikipedia:Bittorrent|torrent]] that had 9.55 gigs of [[furry art]] in it, including the works of [[Ken Sample]], [[Karabiner]], [[Grimal]], [[FoxxFire]] and many more. When he created a new journal to circumvent the suspension, he was permanently banned. He later moved to GreatestJournal.com, where his tag-line was ''sibeing the fandom one wag at a time''.
*'''September 2005''': Sibe moves back to Portland, Oregon from Bellevue, Washington. He does not notify his probation judge in Washington of his new address in Oregon. In this month his Oregon warrant was also updated to extraditable from Washington, Idaho, and Western Montana as part of a change in policy in regards dealing with felony offenses against persons in Oregon, due to the ability of criminals previous to this to run to Washington and evade capture.
*'''9/10 September 2005''': "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph ''"As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrant on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested,'' announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at [[Nexxus]], and ends it by professing his love for his family, and thanks his friends for being there for him. His friends reactions is mixed, with a few believing its a prank, to those who believe it truly happening, and what can they do to help. Its this last reaction that forces Sibe to admit that the whole thing was ''"a gag and Im allright."'' Again, reaction to this admission is mixed: from the "I knew it, Lol!," to the "How dare you deceive your friends that care for you!." For the last ones, Sibe had a simple response: ''"Fuck em if they cant take a joke then."''
*'''13 January 2006''': Sibe was verbally served with a [[Wikipedia:Restraining order|restraining order]] through [[AAE]], the parent non-profit corporation of Further Confusion, which effectively made all grounds of the Hotel hosting FC 2006 off limits to Sibe, under penalty of immediate arrest. The timing of the restraining order (starting on the 20th) was such that he was not able to contest it until 2 February 2006, well after the convention was over. The result was that he did not attend the convention, despite suggestions from others that he was present, and in contrast to previous years (in which Sibe had been banned, but still attended).
[[Image:Darknatashasibebadgelowres5km.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[Dark Natasha]]]]
*'''5 February 2006''': Sibe was booked into Multnomah County (Oregon) Justice Center by officers of the [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] for the warrant issued on 28 December 2004. As he now had a fixed address (Multnomah County Justice Center), he was process-served for various lawsuits and orders of protection. Despite speculation on various sites that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log indicated that he committed a new domestic violence offense, particularly against his mate Bound Wolf, the real reason why Multnomah County Sheriff's noted the DV-Coercion in his booking file was due to the charge that he was convicted of in 2002 in exchange for his plea of no contest. Whether this was intentional or an error on their part is unknown.
*'''14 February 2006''': Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted, though not by Sibe since he was still in custody at the time. It was not suspended by Greatest Journal, which leads to speculation of possible evidence tampering.
*'''17 February 2006''': A hearing for violation of probation is convened at 9:30AM at Multnomah County Circuit Courthouse. Judge Douglas Beckman presiding. Sibe stipulates to evading the warrant for his arrest and continued to abscond, use of internet outside of Judge Beckman's authorization, and stipulation to the use of marijuana, as well as traffic violations. Judge Beckman, during the defense attorney's statements about Sibe's accomplishments of having a job for nearly a year, brought up the issue of police reports filed for sexual abuse and misconduct by four different persons, including the father of a 2 year old girl who accused Sibe of sexually abusing his daughter. The father of the 2 year old was deported and as a result the case was dropped due to the lack of witnesses (the daughter was removed from the country by ICE with her father). His computer is ordered seized and turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for forensic examination. The hearing is held over until 7 March 2006 for hearing. Sibe offers up a Compaq laptop as his personal computer.
*'''7 March 2006''': Due to Sibe's misrepresenting to the court that his Compaq laptop was his only personal computer (the FBI forensics examiners determined that the computer was a "brick," "ancient", and had only been used three times since 2003 for dial up usage), along with the stipulations to his violations of probation, he receives a 6 month jail sentence for the probation violations, plus 3 years' parole. His 30 days held at the Multnomah County (Oregon) Justice Center thus far does not count as time served toward this sentence due primarily to his misrepresentation to the court.
*'''23 March 2006''': An email is sent from [http://www.vinelink.com VINElink] victim notification services that he was released from Oregon Department of Corrections. However, he is still in Multnomah County Jail until 3 September 2006 according to Multnomah County Jail Custody Records, and his other entries into VINElink indicate that he is still in the custody of Multnomah County Jail. A search through [http://www.inmatereleases.org/ Multnomah County Jail Inmate Early Releases Database] indicates that he has not been released, either.
*'''1 September 2006''': Sibe is released from jail and put under the supervision of the Oregon Department of Corrections for a period of 3 years. The slightly early release is due to the calculated release date not being on a government business day.
*'''12 May 2007''': Sibe announces that a warrant for his arrest has been issued, as he has avoided seeing his probation officer due to continued failures to pass a [[Wikipedia:urinalysis|urinalysis]] since the prior September.<ref>''[http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/112095.html Warrant for my arrest], Sibe (12 May 2007)</ref> He suggests that he is likely to do "a little time in county", and offers to post his address so people can write to him in jail. He is listed as an absconder from community supervision on VINElink.<ref name="VINElink">[http://www.vinelink.com/ VINElink offender detail] (search Oregon for Ross Reddick), accessed 19 August 2007</ref>
*'''28 May 2007''': Sibe is permanently banned from the [[FurAffinity]]'s forums.<ref>[http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/113080.html Sibe talks about his FurAffinity ban on his Greatest Journal]</ref><ref>[http://lulz.net/furi/res/53642.html Sibe talks about his FurAffinity ban on his [[Lulz.net]]]</ref>
*'''17 August 2007''': Sibe reports that he is banned from [[FurJAM]] 2007 - possibly due to his promotion of a pirated copy of ''[[Softpaw Magazine|Softpaw]]'' #2 - despite having no intention to go to Australia for the event.<ref>''[http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/131616.html Banned from a con in australia]'' - Sibe (17 August 2007)</ref>
*'''18 August 2007''': Sibe is taken into custody under the previous warrant, and enters the [http://www.norcor.co.wasco.or.us/ Northern Oregon Regional Correctional Facilities] (NORCOR). [http://www.norcor.co.wasco.or.us/eagle/ICUD0080.HTM NORCOR Inmate Detail]

== References ==
<references/>
* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/976ed1874bd7f212 The latest on Sibe]'', an [[alt.fan.furry]] posting from 2002 by Brian Floyd about Sibe's actions.
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20011025103610/http://nuk.ufuria.org/031001_sibe.txt Log of the attack alleged to be by Sibe on #northUKfurs]
* [http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=20&c2coff=1&q=author%3Arreddi60%40hotmail.com&safe=off&qt_s=Search Various newsgroup postings by Sibe] (not a complete archive)
* Court's ruling in the case of Rabco Publishing vs Ross H. Reddick (Docket Number 200451SC000862). [PDF]
* [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/cf36a8715d11e5e5/dd808e8f2f0ea7b1 Sibe's criminal record] 
* [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/8634.html Sibe's confirmation and denial of some of the things mentioned in a previous version of this article]
* ''[http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=734 Rumors spread - Sibe behind bars?]'' at [[Flayrah]]
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/a3448f750f043334 An interview of Sibe] by [[RuheMaus]]
* [http://www.furtherconfusion.org/forums/msg.php?th=327 A conversation] between Sibe and [[WhiteFire]] about his banning from [[Further Confusion]] 2003; includes link to [http://photobucket.com/albums/v454/evilsibe/Conifur/ Sibe's avatar, and pictures of Conifur 2004] - password: sibepix
* ''[http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fur.artwork.erotica/browse_frm/thread/cf337a53011d6eea My conifur 2004 experience]''
*The posts, [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/19766.html (1)] and [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/20156.html (2)], about the "fake" arrest incident. (Marked as deleted)
*The [http://www.furryfandom.com/fc06sibe.mp3 first audio message] of the intent of serving Sibe with an restraining order through AAE on behalf of Further Confusion.
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furrtive/381797.html Details regarding Sibe's arrest for probation violation in February, 2006] (marked as deleted)
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lifestyle.furry/browse_thread/thread/1d3ecabc4f948b29/5e7ebe37bf896975?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#5e7ebe37bf896975 Sibe's first post on alt.lifestyle.furry]
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/1beb4306a6581045/3f6123536f89e30c Sibe's first post on alt.fan.furry]

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Sibe}}
* [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/ ''Sibeing the fandom one wag at a time'',] Sibe's [[GreatestJournal]] (as EvilSibe)
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIUME4orE Sibe's video interview] with [[Fredryk Phox]], late 2004
* [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1085115341022161983&hl=en Google video of Sibe and friends] discussing his ban from [[Further Confusion 2005]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Husky characters]]
{{Featured article}}

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-26T05:02:09Z

Gray Coyote: /* Thoughts on the Pre-age 18 charges */

{{featured}}

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]] (7 Sep 2005 - 26 Jan 2006)
*[[/Archive2|Archive 2]] (11 Feb 2006 - 22 Jul 2006)
</div>
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}

:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.

:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - "outing" their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.

:If Sibe truly is trying to "go straight" - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply "wipe away" the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them.

:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:: I too agree. I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Someone unilaterally decided that they were going to delete the name, without obviously reading the talk page, luckily it was reverted, though I have to address one thing that was stated as explanation for what he did: "most of what is in this article is false and very biased information." False? I don't think so. Considering the fact that everything court related based is backed up by court records and transcripts, to claim that it's false is folly.
--[[User: Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 17:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

: In [[User:FoxDiller]]'s defense, I should point that he's relatively new on here, having just started editing today. It is possible that he may have not ''known'' about the vote. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::We had an extended discussion on IRC, during the course of which I explicitly noted that there was a vote and that so far it was seven to four against. He is new to editing here, but not unaware of the current situation.

::One of his claims was that there was no basis to the claims of Sibe's attacks against his father. Perhaps we need a more specific reference for these? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 17:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Not a problem, Greenreaper. Let's start with case cites. King County (Washington State) Superior Court case number 95-8-07446-6. This is the one where he was convicted of domestic violence against his father and lost his right to possess firearms in Washington State. The next case, KCSC# 96-08-01563-8, never resulted in a conviction, however it was again for assault on his father. He essentially had a no-bail warrant issued for his arrest in April of 1996 after disappearing, and then only came back after his 18th birthday to file a motion to quash the superior court case and warrant for lack of jurisdiction (He was now an adult legally and therefor the superior courts in Washington State had no jurisdiction over the crime). I am not sure what happened to the case afterwards, because as far as I can tell, it was never refiled in District Court against him as an adult. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==

Aye, Nay, Abstain:

'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the "spite" incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Abstain, with a twist'''. There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain. However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:Good idea. I still hope the vote goes to "Nay", but agree re: documentation. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer. Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in. He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period. We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit. I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him. This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name. If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Through his actions to damage both furry fandom and those within it, he has forfeited any right to anonymity. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 03:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. The actions of this user do not demonstrate good faith. The request was refused ealier for reasons noted. This information is publically avaialble from other sources (Fredryk Phox, etc) and, not to be insensitive, would alienate many people if it were to be removed. The magnitude of the acts committed should also be taken into account, this person has a history of dangerous and destructive activity that members of the fandom should be able to easily find out about even if this person is using another alias/identity. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 04:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Of the reasons cited for, I feel that it's far less likely that a HR department will deny employment to him for a page in a wiki than, say, a criminal background check. I know it'll be possible for people to grab the information in the history either way, but given the nature of his history... I can only think that starting anew within the fandom would result in the further victimization of our fellows. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Considering how many oportunities people (and the law) has given him, and he still keeps doing his particular stuff. Id say his name should stay, at least until he proves himself he's not the same. --[[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] 11:39, 13 September 2006 (GMT-6)

'''Nay'''. See above for the reasons. --[[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 17:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. WikiFur should not omit or censor widely publically avalible details about a person. Nor should past history attempt to be erased. Leave as is. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 18:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has the right to choose where their personal information be displayed. Be it a name or a photograph. [[User:Dimruthien|Dimruthien]]

: That's a new one on me. Can I get a legal citation please? (Excluding cases where posting said information is done with the intent to harass) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Incidentally, I believe the question was phrased in a way that encourages "Aye" votes, making the fact that the vote has slanted toward "Nay" all the more pointed. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Tally count as of Sept. 19, 2006 @ 7:19 AM (UTC):
* Aye - 4
* Abstain - 1
* '''Nay''' - 9

== Note regarding wikifur personal information policy change discussion ==

There is already an established talk page for this: [[WikiFur_talk:Personal_information]] --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

== Removal Of Personally Identifying Information ==
I am going to remove his real name from the Article, because as a furry and a proud one at that, having this kind of information, no matter who this might be is wrong. Regardless of past issues, most of what is in this article is false and very biased information. It is not the responsibility of people who have grudges against a person to be the 'warning' system, this just promotes hate and violence. I've seen time and time again where people take matters into their own hands where the results are almost disaterous. The punishment of a crime is dealt by a judge, and not a website for furry information. The only reason that this article continues to illicit ill will towards anyone, including Sibe, is to mob as a group. This should be of context of information; not bigotry. I have also removed information that has no evidence backing it up. Anyone will Google and some level of intelligence can find out facts, they don't need (and we don't need) intollerance of anything. I can't move you guys to delete the article, but I plead with you as someone who's done a lot worse in his past, but has grown from it, leave the name out. Just the name, and if there is data on Sibe, have evidence to back it up.

Things like, ''violated probation for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison.''
Those are aspects of the case that no-one but the Portland judicial system would understand...not some random Furry. Honestly guys, I don't want to be involed in flame wars with people, including Sibe, let's extend the olive branch and not be evil people. It's not up for us to decide if this man should be able to get a job, nor why would it be the resonsibility of the WikiFur community to decide that... Things like his badge, and his pictures, they don't have permissions to be posted? I'll remove those in one week if someone can't provide proof of permission to use those photos... Love Fox Diller, (fox@yiff.com)

P.s. Why am I doing this? Because I believe that social grace is something we can always strive for, but is not in our right to deny such to others.--[[User:FoxDiller|FoxDiller]] 17:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::Wikifur contents are not subject to the views of a single individual. Please scroll up to the "(VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew?," and place your vote so your points of views can be added to the rest of the community in deciding this matter [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::This violates the vote in progress, not to mention endangers lives by allowing Sibe to continue to offend while denying those who are unaware of him the publicly verifiable facts that he is a convicted, violent felon, and has abused anonymity and being unknown in the furry community, causing great harm. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

: Regarding the article:

:# I have reverted your edits to the article. Voting is still in progress on this issue and consensus has not yet been reached, AFAIK. Nothing sinister intended by that, but it's generally accepted practice around here to wait until voting is concluded on a disputed section of a page before modifying it. (also, please don't insert and sign comments into articles. Comments should be made on the talk pages, thanks!)
::Not to mention that the vote was going in favor of retaining the info anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:# Which information in the article is "false", please?
:# This website is not "punishing" him, it is merely documenting events which have happened. If by documenting events which have happened, this causes an individual to look bad in the eyes of others, I think it is a reflection more of that individual than of the website that is documenting them.
:# You mentioned using Google to find out the "facts". Please tell us what you dug up with these Google searches. We'll be happy to add it into the article.

: Also, as someone else pointed out above, any reputable HR department is going to do a criminal background check and a credit check when hiring someone, and not paying attention to a random webpage about them. I think this wiki is the least of his problems, insofar as getting employment is concerned. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::Plus, the motive of helping him find a job by erasing a public posting of his public criminal record so that he can deny having one is aiding and abetting fraud on the part of Wikifur anyway in my book. I see no reason to honor a request to commit fraud, even if this would be hard to prove or not stand up in court. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== Should all information not pertaining to furry be dropped? ==

A lot of the information in this article has nothing to do with furry, and (it seems) a lot to do with conducting a smear campaign against this individual. I note specifically:

:Except they are true and publicly verifiable. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

::And I discount the poster's whole line of reasoning that follows. '''Everybody's''' Wikifur page has content that's clearly "non-furry". For instance, mine goes on at length about my musical background and work life. O.K., you could argue that that's different because I wrote it. Well, let's look at a better example: [[Uncle Kage]]. He's never had a hand in the page about him, and it contains lots of "non-furry" content. I doubt you'd suggest that it be removed. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 07:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

* 9 Dec 1995 and 6 March 1996: Both have nothing to do with furry and both apparently happend before he was 18, thus would under normal circumstances be expunged from his legal record.

:Except they haven't. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 20 Jan 1999: Were any furries involved in this auto accident?

:That he's violent and blatantly reckless with cars should be of great concern to anyone wanting to know him personally or meet him at a convention. If you can't understand why, then it would be wise for me to be extra cautious around you as well. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 6 Mar 2001: Nothing furry here.

:Aside from the fact this individual has been active at furry conventions and in the furry community and wants your help to return among us by having you expunge his convicted public record from furries' knowledge. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 20 Sep 2001: Again, what does his driving record have to do with anything?

:All part of his convicted criminal record. It doesn't bother you to have a violent, reckless individual attending cons? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 18 Mar 2002: (unaffiliated with the furry fandom): I think this says it all.

:I'm still confused as to why you want to expunge a criminal's record so he can continue to wreak serious harm on the furry community. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* May 2002: Driving record stuff again; why?

* 3 May 2002: Thus already tarred as a bad driver, Sibe is further tarred as being mentally ill. Where's the furry connection in this? Why is it presented at all?

* 5 Dec 2002: Drug use is brought up by implication; where the facts lack, innueno lies?

:You are accusing a judge of innuendos? The terms of his probation and the hearing transcript (and even the recording, actually, available from the court as an MP3 burned on CD if I recall) are the public record source of this. You seriously expect to have any credibility calling the judge a liar making an innuendo? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* Nov 2004: Is this information or stalking? Again, where's the furry connection?

:Again, Sibe places himself in the furry community. Its criminal activity by somone in the furry community and establishes Sibe has no respect for law and authority. This is very valuable information for any furry concerned for their own safety. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 6 Dec 2004: More driving record stuff. Maybe he drives an Audi Fox or a Volkswagon Rabbit? Not seeing the connection to furry here.

* 28 Dec 2004: Didn't see the word "furry" in there anywhere.

* Sept 2005: No furry interest that I can see?

* 5 Feb 2006: If Bound Wolf is a furry (which it sounds like), I can see this being included. Otherwise, the same question is asked: what, if anything, does this have to do with furry?

* 17 Feb 2006: The accusation is terrible, I'm glad he's not living next door to me, he's an awfully bad person, but what has this got to do with furry again?

* 7 Mar 2006: More of the same.

* 23 Mar 2006: Same questions apply.

* 1 Sep 2006: Why is this even remotely important, furry or not (and it appears to be under the catagory of not-furry)?

Sibe's not nice person, he's hurt people, he's a dick and a lot worse. He's even a criminal. But if the alleged purpose of this article is to document things that are important to FURRY, shouldn't that article stick to things that are FURRY-RELATED? Yes, this information is all based on public record, but is it equally allowable to publish the driving records and arrest records of everyone in Furry simply because they are in Furry?

:Sibe is a well known figure in the fandom, and wishes to re-enter the fandom. I'm sure he appreciates people like you trying to help him expunge his record, so the vast majority of furs won't recognize him for the violent, reckless felon that he is. He's abused the anonymity of the Internet time and time again to cause harm to a large number of furs, including artists (and by extension, those artist's fans). His criminal record establishes he has had plenty of opportunities to mend his ways from plenty of departments of justice and corrections, and he has disregarded them all. This is, in fact, exactly why Sibe not only deserves more chances, but anyone attempting to help him have another chance by wiping his record is helping put him in a position to abuse others again and bring more harm to the furry community. He abused this too many times and has gotten away with it too many times already. Why do you wish to help him get back to his pattern of increasingly abhorrent violence and abuse? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== Note about removed timeline block ==

This block was removed, as it was not referenced:
<blockquote>'''14 September 2006''': Sibe was spotted at "Metrotown", one of the largest malls in the Greater Vancouver Regional District at aprox. 1pm. The group that spotted him consisted of three individuals, two of whom wish to remain nameless for fear of retaliation from the alleged pirate. Upon sighting Sibe, Jessy-Fox, after recovering from the shock of having sighted a convicted fellon, immediatly tried to contact mall security. Unfortunatly upon returning to the spot where they had sighted Sibe, they were shocked and awe'd to find out that he had already departed.</blockquote>
It was [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=next&oldid=86391 added by] [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=86598&oldid=86586 anonymous users] (the first is probably [[Kyle Fox]]/[[User:FoxDiller]], judging by [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:24.85.98.1&diff=prev&oldid=59628 this edit]). I have no idea if it is accurate or not. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

:That looked to me like a bad try at being funny when posted the first time. I don't think it's accurate, just me two shekels [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::Well, in theory it is [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/faq-inadmissibility.html virtually impossible for Sibe to legally enter Canada until 2014]. It might be that he lied to get in. It might also be that it's a bad joke, or a deliberate attempt to insert misinformation. In any case, probably not a good thing to have in without any documentation to back it up. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Why would it be "virtually impossible"? Its actually "virtually impossible" to stop someone going into Canada, as the border is much larger than the Mexican border and is ignored, for the most part, even though that's the border most of the 9/11 terrorists came across. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 15:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Note "legally". Just because he has the '''ability''' to enter does not mean he has the right to do so legally. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 04:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

:::There's a less-known Vancouver, '''WA''', which is just north of the border between Oregon and Washington (directly across from Portland, OR, which is mostly in Multnomah County). While the above is certainly information of... questionable value, it does illustrate the need for usage of full place names. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 11:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Yes, there is, but that's irrelevant in this case, unless the Washington city also is within a Greater Vancouver Regional District and has a Metrotown mall, which strikes me as unlikely. -- [[User:KDelany|KDelany]] 18:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::::What's just as bad is "Washington" being given as the only place name when someone actually means the city of "Washington, DC." DC might be better known, but the state of Washington has a higher population (in total). --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 15:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

:There's nothing about such an incident on either of the local furry lists ([[vfur]] and [[vaf]]). In addition, I've not heard anything about a Jessy-Fox around here; granted a lot of people don't go to meets, but usually there's at least an introductory post or mention at some point. -- [[User:KDelany|KDelany]] 07:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

== How is this Different than [[Lance_Rund]] ==

What I would like a clear answer on how this is any different then Lance Rund, he requested a removal, for similar reasons, and it was granted.. why not grant this request as well? --[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 23:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

: As far as I know, Lance has neither a felony record, nor has he ever pirated artwork. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 23:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

: Because [[Talk:Further Confusion/Eyes of the Night|there]] people felt that it was not really all that relevant who the person was, while here people certainly '''do''' think that it is relevant. That discussion was actually about the removal of information from other articles, which doesn't exactly apply here, but it is a good example of how decisions are made.

:The simple reason the article about Mr. Rund (as opposed to the mention of his name in another article) was removed was becuase there was no significant complaint about doing so at the time. This tends to be the case for members of the fandom in good standing. Sibe is evidently not one of these, and there are people here that feel he does not deserve any concessions due to the nature of his actions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 00:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if this better suited for a policy discussion elsewhere, but since we are dealing with this topic right now, what are your thoughts about a similar situation with [[Canis Claxis]] taking into account the alleged incident at [[Mephit Furmeet X]]? --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 05:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

:It's best discussed at [[Talk:Canis Claxis]], and I would suggest that following [[User:Dmuth|Giza]]'s suggestion there would be the best way to go. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 05:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

== Thoughts on the Pre-age 18 charges ==
Not trying to start something here but I have the feeling I probably am, but in addition to the debate about removing personal information, what about the charges filed before he was an adult? My understanding of U.S. law regarding information pertaining to the legal situations of minors is shakey at best, but it would seem to me, that charges put against one as a minor when one is well past that age, shouldn't be appearing on a wiki - from both a moral and possibly from a legal standpoint. I move to remove those charges (and have their removal be a seperate issue from the other indictment list or the real name) - AbyssWolf
:As with all other information on Sibe, it is still publicly accessible. It is not shaky ground of any sort to post a public record. I have no idea why you feel a publicly accessible criminal record shouldn't appear on a wiki article on someone who has broad notoriety (publicity) in the community the particular wiki serves. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

: If there is a legal reason why the pre-18 stuff should not be posted, can you point us to the law in question, please? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It may vary from state to state, but generally juvenile court records are kept confidential as opposed to adult cases which are a matter of public record. The philosophy behind this is the hope of rehabilitating younger offenders to turn their lives around without the stigma of a criminal record. This is why the identities of minors are usually redacted from breaking news events and it is not unheard of for the media to get in trouble for improperly disclosing juvenile records.

::This can be overidden in cases of serious violent crimes where the accused may end up getting tried as an adult anyway. For more background on this, please read the [http://www.jlc.org/index.php/factsheets/privacy Juvenile Law Center's article on Privacy in Juvenile Delinquency Proceedings]. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 06:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:::To be on the safe side, I've omitted them until someone can come up with justification for their inclusion. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 16:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Washington State does not consider juvenile records to be private. In fact, the idea of "privatizing criminal records" does not exist. The most an expungement does is allow you to say "I haven't been convicted of this crime" on most job applications. It does not, however, allow the records to be deleted, at least as far as Washington State is concerned. Anyone who can go to the King County District Courts can still get the records, they just won't show up on a WATCH check (Washington's version of NCIC).--[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]]

:::Upon further reading, it appears Sibe's juvenile records were not expunged (cleared) from public record because he did not follow up with the court or stay out of trouble as an adult. I'll leave it up to you folks to decide whether it should be added back, but I would recommend you leave out details that did not directly result in a sentence, probation, or other juvenile adjudication. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 17:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Again, I would like a CLEAR answer on why non-Furry information is pertinent at all, especially the stuff from his driving record. Sibe was never violent against the community, whatever else is sins are. Leave the ddos and copyright infringement in, obviously, but does it really matter that he was in a traffic accident, even if he was at fault? After all, if Sibe's information is public enough for Wikifur because Sibe's a been declared a bad person by Wikifur (yes, he is a bad person), then is it fair to post the same about Hangdog, Squeerat or Betty Roget because they're "bad people", too? Is it fair to post public information about ANYONE in Furry simply because they are in Furry, whether it's releated to Furry or not, with the decision left up to whatever whim the majority is feeling on Wikifur that day?

::::I don't like the idea that if a group of people on Wikifur decide you're fair game -- FOR WHATEVER REASON -- then you might find your own records posted online, regardless of whether they have anything to do with Furry or not. That's not providing information, that's enacting revenge. Is this really what you want Wikifur to be? [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

:::::You've ignored my replies and those of everyone else, I guess. "Sibe was never violent against the community" '''WRONG''' Sibe's reckless and violent nature is against everyone, but only against non-furs have stuck thus far. Sibe has physically and sexually abused furs, he just hasn't had a conviction. Do Hangdog, Squeerat or Betty Roget have violent felony records? Violent felon is a clear and verifiable status that Sibe meets -- he's been convicted of violent felonies and they are verifiable from public records. Why you want to allow violent, convicted felons to go to cons where they can, do and have (as Sibe did) catch furries unawares. Maintaining a careful watch and holding them accountable for their criminal records is '''justice''', not '''revenge'''. '''Revenge''' would be eye-for-and-eye, doing unto them as they have done unto others; '''justice''' is merely doing what one can to protect innocent furs from those who have caused verifiable harm to others. If a mass murderer got out of prison tomorrow and joined the furry community, hiding under a furry alias so no one would recognize them, would they have a right to demand their record be expunged from a wikifur article?

:::::It is '''not''' the duty of Wikifur to clean someone's public criminal record and hide it from the community. Sibe has caused great harm to the furry community, and when reading the wikifur article on Sibe, no one should be denied the right to know that he is a violent felon, and have specific information they could verify and look up from public records with the information in the article. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 23:58, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

::::::Chibiabos, are you claiming Sibe was actually violent in Furry? Everything I see in this article related to Furry is about copyright infringement or computer nonsense. Can you document some specific physical assault in Furry by Sibe? Can you document where Sibe "physically and sexually abused furs"? I notice you note there was no conviction, so how do we know this happend at all beyond heresay? How has Sibe "caught furries unawares" at cons? If you can't document these fairly seriously accusations, then why are you making them at all? Your whole point about including his criminal record is that Sibe has wrought a path of terror through furry when the evidence shows he really hasn't. You keep trying to link Sibe's activities outside of Furry with the things he did within it, and you're doing so with alarmist, but unsupported, claims. See also: Bush, Iraq, WMD's.

::::::Also, Justice is meted out by people who are answerable to either the law its self or to a higher authority that plays by a set of rules. If I saw some set-in-stone rules about when admission of someone's criminal record on offenses having nothing to do with furry was allowed on Wikifur, I'd feel much better about what's being done to Sibe. Again and repeatedly, '''the criminal offenses listed have nothing to do with furry, at all'''.

::::::Once you get past all the hysteria and loaded wording of the entry, all Sibe actually did IN FURRY was: 1) Engage in flamewars on the Usenet; 2) Flood some IRC channels; 3) Posted copyrighted work to pirate channels (and got sued for the same, which is the most newsworthy thing here); 5) Get banned from Something Awful; 6) Engage in some Live Journal drama; 7) Show up at some cons and get thrown out; 8) Be a general pain in the ass. That's it. [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-15T06:06:37Z

Gray Coyote: /* why not? */

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-14T17:30:12Z

Gray Coyote: /* why not? */

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'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}

:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.

:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - "outing" their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.

:If Sibe truly is trying to "go straight" - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply "wipe away" the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them.

:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:: I too agree. I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Someone unilaterally decided that they were going to delete the name, without obviously reading the talk page, luckily it was reverted, though I have to address one thing that was stated as explanation for what he did: "most of what is in this article is false and very biased information." False? I don't think so. Considering the fact that everything court related based is backed up by court records and transcripts, to claim that it's false is folly.
--[[User: Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 17:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==

Aye, Nay, Abstain:

'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the "spite" incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Abstain, with a twist'''. There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain. However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer. Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in. He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period. We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit. I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him. This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name. If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Through his actions to damage both furry fandom and those within it, he has forfeited any right to anonymity. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 03:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. The actions of this user do not demonstrate good faith. The request was refused ealier for reasons noted. This information is publically avaialble from other sources (Fredryk Phox, etc) and, not to be insensitive, would alienate many people if it were to be removed. The magnitude of the acts committed should also be taken into account, this person has a history of dangerous and destructive activity that members of the fandom should be able to easily find out about even if this person is using another alias/identity. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 04:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Of the reasons cited for, I feel that it's far less likely that a HR department will deny employment to him for a page in a wiki than, say, a criminal background check. I know it'll be possible for people to grab the information in the history either way, but given the nature of his history... I can only think that starting anew within the fandom would result in the further victimization of our fellows. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Considering how many oportunities people (and the law) has given him, and he still keeps doing his particular stuff. Id say his name should stay, at least until he proves himself he's not the same. --[[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] 11:39, 13 September 2006 (GMT-6)

'''Nay'''. See above for the reasons. --[[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 17:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. WikiFur should not omit or censor widely publically avalible details about a person. Nor should past history attempt to be erased. Leave as is. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 18:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has the right to choose where their personal information be displayed. Be it a name or a photograph. [[User:Dimruthien|Dimruthien]]

: That's a new one on me. Can I get a legal citation please? (Excluding cases where posting said information is done with the intent to harass) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

== Note regarding wikifur personal information policy change discussion ==

There is already an established talk page for this: [[WikiFur_talk:Personal_information]] --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

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<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]] (7 Sep 2005 - 26 Jan 2006)
*[[/Archive2|Archive 2]] (11 Feb 2006 - 22 Jul 2006)
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'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}

:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.

:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - "outing" their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.

:If Sibe truly is trying to "go straight" - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply "wipe away" the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them.

:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:: I too agree. I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==

Aye, Nay, Abstain:

'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the "spite" incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Abstain, with a twist'''. There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain. However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer. Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in. He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period. We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit. I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him. This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name. If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Through his actions to damage both furry fandom and those within it, he has forfeited any right to anonymity. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 03:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. The actions of this user do not demonstrate good faith. The request was refused ealier for reasons noted. This information is publically avaialble from other sources (Fredryk Phox, etc) and, not to be insensitive, would alienate many people if it were to be removed. The magnitude of the acts committed should also be taken into account, this person has a history of dangerous and destructive activity that members of the fandom should be able to easily find out about even if this person is using another alias/identity. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 04:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Of the reasons cited for, I feel that it's far less likely that a HR department will deny employment to him for a page in a wiki than, say, a criminal background check. I know it'll be possible for people to grab the information in the history either way, but given the nature of his history... I can only think that starting anew within the fandom would result in the further victimization of our fellows. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Considering how many oportunities people (and the law) has given him, and he still keeps doing his particular stuff. Id say his name should stay, at least until he proves himself he's not the same. --[[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] 11:39, 13 September 2006 (GMT-6)

'''Nay'''. See above for the reasons. --[[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 17:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. WikiFur should not omit or censor widely publically avalible details about a person. Nor should past history attempt to be erased. Leave as is. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 18:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has the right to choose where their personal information be displayed. Be it a name or a photograph. [[User:Dimruthien|Dimruthien]]

: That's a new one on me. Can I get a legal citation please? (Excluding cases where posting said information is done with the intent to harass) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

== Note regarding wikifur personal information policy change discussion ==

There is already an established talk page for this: [[WikiFur_talk:Personal_information]] --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

== Removal Of Personally Identifying Information ==
I am going to remove his real name from the Article, because as a furry and a proud one at that, having this kind of information, no matter who this might be is wrong. Regardless of past issues, most of what is in this article is false and very biased information. It is not the responsibility of people who have grudges against a person to be the 'warning' system, this just promotes hate and violence. I've seen time and time again where people take matters into their own hands where the results are almost disaterous. The punishment of a crime is dealt by a judge, and not a website for furry information. The only reason that this article continues to illicit ill will towards anyone, including Sibe, is to mob as a group. This should be of context of information; not bigotry. I have also removed information that has no evidence backing it up. Anyone will Google and some level of intelligence can find out facts, they don't need (and we don't need) intollerance of anything. I can't move you guys to delete the article, but I plead with you as someone who's done a lot worse in his past, but has grown from it, leave the name out. Just the name, and if there is data on Sibe, have evidence to back it up.

Things like, ''violated probation for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison.''
Those are aspects of the case that no-one but the Portland judicial system would understand...not some random Furry. Honestly guys, I don't want to be involed in flame wars with people, including Sibe, let's extend the olive branch and not be evil people. It's not up for us to decide if this man should be able to get a job, nor why would it be the resonsibility of the WikiFur community to decide that... Things like his badge, and his pictures, they don't have permissions to be posted? I'll remove those in one week if someone can't provide proof of permission to use those photos... Love Fox Diller, (fox@yiff.com)

P.s. Why am I doing this? Because I believe that social grace is something we can always strive for, but is not in our right to deny such to others.--[[User:FoxDiller|FoxDiller]] 17:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::Wikifur contents are not subject to the views of a single individual. Please scroll up to the "(VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew?," and place your vote so your points of views can be added to the rest of the community in deciding this matter [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

: Regarding the article:

:# I have reverted your edits to the article. Voting is still in progress on this issue and consensus has not yet been reached, AFAIK. Nothing sinister intended by that, but it's generally accepted practice around here to wait until voting is concluded on a disputed section of a page before modifying it. (also, please don't insert and sign comments into articles. Comments should be made on the talk pages, thanks!)
:# Which information in the article is "false", please?
:# This website is not "punishing" him, it is merely documenting events which have happened. If by documenting events which have happened, this causes an individual to look bad in the eyes of others, I think it is a reflection more of that individual than of the website that is documenting them.
:# You mentioned using Google to find out the "facts". Please tell us what you dug up with these Google searches. We'll be happy to add it into the article.

: Also, as someone else pointed out above, any reputable HR department is going to do a criminal background check and a credit check when hiring someone, and not paying attention to a random webpage about them. I think this wiki is the least of his problems, insofar as getting employment is concerned. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-13T03:19:48Z

Gray Coyote: /* (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? */

{{featured}}

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]]
</div>
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. I have changed things a bit to reflect that reality -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)
:I was the one who originally wrote "arrested", and I acknowledge that you seem to have better information than I. Looks like a good edit to me.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a minor revision to reflect that it's not just piracy related lawsuits that he's being served with, but also orders of protection, as well as the correct year for his original conviction. It will also make clear that the arrest was due to his warrant, not due to a new crime, as well as the circumstances behind the warrant being issued in the first place. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I am also clarifying the fact that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log does not indicate that the police have arrested him for a new crime. It is only a placeholder due to his previous conviction. Though I'm certainly not a neutral party, nothing is served by wild rumors, speculation, and incorrect information. Though Sibe may engage in that sort of behavior, I will not and will do my best to correct mistakes and bring more verifiable facts to light. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you very much for your edits to this article. I agree wholeheartedly that misinformation is worse than no information at all. The more accuracy we have here, the better!--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted overnight, and a new entry into the controversy section was entered under 14 February 2006. He did not delete it himself, due to him being in county custody.[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 20:17 14 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:I'm curious about the mention of Sibe being process-served while in custody. Although I've seen calls for people to do this, do we have any proof that this was actually done? --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 20:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::Email statements made by Mike Curtis of Shanda Fantasy Arts, Summer Jackson who is the attorney for AAE, and phone statement by Rabbit Valley to me. Unfortunately until I can get the "Return of Service" paperwork from them, I will have to trust them at their word. Summer Jackson is an attorney and bound by ethics code in California, and the other two have active lawsuits against him, and nothing is served by them lying about their own lawsuit. He also has to be served with a renewal of my own order. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 01:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, no problems. I confess I asked mainly out of idle curiosity, and I'm sorry if it came across as "put up or shut up" because I assure you that was not my intention. As we do strive to be semi-encyclopedic, it's always better if we have some online statement (forums, Usenet, etc.) that we can point to for reference, but some things, like the American legal system, just aren't geared for such things yet (booking files of Multnomah County notwithstanding :-) --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I am in the process of doing some massive editing of the controversy section, adding a bunch of dates, specifically, his criminal activities, when warrants were issued for his arrest in various different jurisdictions, such as Oregon, Washington, and Massachusetts, as well more details on his juvenile criminal record, which is public information in Washington State. In Washington, unless you go through a process of petitioning the court to expunge and remove the records from the court file, the juvenile records are still applicable as convictions. A lot of folk think that as soon as you turn 18 years of age, the records go away, which hasn't been the truth for almost 20 years in most US States. All information about his arrest and convictions are from public record, and these are available by request. His moves between Portland and Bellevue and back are from his appearances at furry meets in Seattle and Portland areas as a resident of those areas. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 00:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:Should some things be separated out of the controversies section? That section is getting a little cluttered, plus, the concept "Sibe goes to jail for x, x, x" is fact. The controversies would be something someone could easily disagree with or question, i.e. things like Sibe getting banned from cons, where there are some who believe this was unfair. The "fact" stuff could nicely stay listed, but I also wonder if "controversies" would look better written up. I'm thinking more of the aesthetics than a lack of neutrality. Normally I'd just go ahead and do this myself, but I like to avoid drama, and drama seems to gravitate towards the mere mention of Sibe. ;) [[User:IzzyFerret|IzzyFerret]] 03:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

::I agree, it is getting a little long there, and the title doesn't correctly describe the section - the actions ''have'' raised controversy, but they are not generally in question. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

:::Changing the name may be a good idea.-- [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 13:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I've given the controversy section a new name for the moment in order to see if it works better than the last one in describing the listed activities. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]<sup>([[User talk:Markus|talk]])</sup> 22:04, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

*cough* Why was my revert taken off? Either Sibe, or someone posing as him, HAS been posting to Yiffstar http://hoxdna.org/yiffstar/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=23339&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 is the main thread that's spoken of. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 9:47 AM, Junee 3rd 2006 (EST)

:Looking at the entry in question, the posts (by a poster going by "SexySibe") contain misspellings and abbreviations that are nothing like Sibe has used in the past (''Who here has a myspace u i dont ur a fucking loser! seriously who donsent ahve those thse days? I do name :B.Lord Email:blordisafreakyboy@gmail.com''), the e-mail address doesn't agree with any aliases he's used in the past, and the poster claims to be from Shreveport, Louisiana, when Sibe is currently (?) incarcerated in Oregon. It's not Sibe, it's just someone who is probably ignorant of the infamy of the nickname. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 14:21, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
::I concur with the assessment given here in that since Sibe is encarcerated, the only logical assumption left is that someone is attempting to use his name or imitate him and is doing rather poorly after readng Duncan's excerpt. Plus, the topic in question is available only to registered users, and thus not everyone can access it without registering first making it information that isn't readily accessible or public as far as I'm concerned. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]<sup>([[User talk:Markus|talk]])</sup> 16:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Alright, was just curious then. I don't know Sibe, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info on the matter...and, I apologize then for not checking any background. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 2:04 PM, June 3 2006 (EST)

== Prison ==

Would somebody please provide sources for the news that Sibe is going to prison, as well as the "various lawsuits and orders of protection" and the "multiple federal counts"? --[[User:Kitch|Kitch]] 03:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

:Sibe is currently in Multnomah County jail. As for the federal stuff, I don't know the full details. I will most likely be rewriting the 7 March with verifiable facts rather than suppositions on the anon editor's part --[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 10:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

::I am afraid I must confess to having made that edit. I knew you would be incommunicado for awhile and thought I'd post something at least until you could get back and post more direct information. I was doing my best trying to remember what you'd told me. My sincerest apologies. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 06:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

:::No big deal. Kitch, if you look through the rest of the discussion above, you'll see that I am one of the folks who had him processed served for an order of protection, along with Further Confusion's parent corporation. The lawsuits are from Shanda Fantasy Arts, Rabbit Valley, and Monitor Studios (parent corporation of SexyFur.com) that I have been able to confirm. -[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 08:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

Edits have been done after a few weeks of delay (due to having to deal with a family emergency). The previous massive edit by an IP address was done by me, due to me forgetting to log into WikiFur (DOH!). The only change made was the removal of a word and removal of the "federal stuff", which is supposition. The sourcing of the 17 February 2006, 7 March 2006, 5 December 2002, and 3 May 2002 comes from audio of the hearings, which will be made available to anyone who asks. The 23 March 2006 entry was from concerns that he was released early, however both VINELink and phone calls to Multnomah County Jail indicate his continued incarceration. Also made a slight mistake in date formatting that I have edited to correct for the 3 May 2002 entry -[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 08:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

== Controversy section ==

I think the "Controversy" label on his legal activity record is becoming a bit dated. I agree with previous comments this chronology is not really controversial; to my knowledge, no one has contested it (rather hard to, as much of it is a matter of legal public record). Perhaps it should be renamed "Legal Timeline" or something similar. "Controversy" should only be used to describe disputable information; you cannot get much more <i>in</i>disputable in the U.S. than a public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 18:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

:And I also agree that if it's not controversial, it shouldn't be called controversy. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 06:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

== Fredryk Phox/Sibe Video ==

I found this while looking for Sibe info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIUME4orE - not sure where it'd fit, but figured I'd post the link anyway in case someone wanted to write something about it. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Interesting - I'd not seen that. It says it was done some time in 2004, which would link up with statements about recently being sued. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Sibe on judicial television show? ==

I saw a video, which (if my memory is correct) was (1) from the "Judge Joe Brown" television show, (2) with Sibe accused of crashing a car and (3) the judge ruled in the favour of the plaintiff. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:I think you're misremembering. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 02:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:Are you thinking maybe Judge Mathis wherein Divefox was sued for mooching off of his roomates? There was a car crash in the process. That's also where the phrase "Don't forget my Internet!" originated. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
::Oops, thank you Douglas and Rat. I did see a judicial show with Divefox, but I'd forgotten Divefox was in it. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 12:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== add to 18 March 2002 paragraph? ==

Paragraph includes "[..] in exchange for his 5 other charges (including the 2001 shotgun arrest) dismissed) and was sentenced [..]". What do people think of "dismissed) and was sentenced" getting changed to "'''being''' dismissed. He was sentenced"? --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}

:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.

:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - "outing" their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.

:If Sibe truly is trying to "go straight" - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply "wipe away" the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them.

:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:: I too agree. I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==

Aye, Nay, Abstain:

'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the "spite" incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Abstain, with a twist'''. There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain. However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer. Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in. He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period. We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit. I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him. This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name. If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-13T03:09:58Z

Gray Coyote: /* (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? */

{{featured}}

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]]
</div>
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. I have changed things a bit to reflect that reality -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)
:I was the one who originally wrote "arrested", and I acknowledge that you seem to have better information than I. Looks like a good edit to me.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a minor revision to reflect that it's not just piracy related lawsuits that he's being served with, but also orders of protection, as well as the correct year for his original conviction. It will also make clear that the arrest was due to his warrant, not due to a new crime, as well as the circumstances behind the warrant being issued in the first place. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I am also clarifying the fact that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log does not indicate that the police have arrested him for a new crime. It is only a placeholder due to his previous conviction. Though I'm certainly not a neutral party, nothing is served by wild rumors, speculation, and incorrect information. Though Sibe may engage in that sort of behavior, I will not and will do my best to correct mistakes and bring more verifiable facts to light. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you very much for your edits to this article. I agree wholeheartedly that misinformation is worse than no information at all. The more accuracy we have here, the better!--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted overnight, and a new entry into the controversy section was entered under 14 February 2006. He did not delete it himself, due to him being in county custody.[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 20:17 14 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:I'm curious about the mention of Sibe being process-served while in custody. Although I've seen calls for people to do this, do we have any proof that this was actually done? --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 20:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::Email statements made by Mike Curtis of Shanda Fantasy Arts, Summer Jackson who is the attorney for AAE, and phone statement by Rabbit Valley to me. Unfortunately until I can get the "Return of Service" paperwork from them, I will have to trust them at their word. Summer Jackson is an attorney and bound by ethics code in California, and the other two have active lawsuits against him, and nothing is served by them lying about their own lawsuit. He also has to be served with a renewal of my own order. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 01:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, no problems. I confess I asked mainly out of idle curiosity, and I'm sorry if it came across as "put up or shut up" because I assure you that was not my intention. As we do strive to be semi-encyclopedic, it's always better if we have some online statement (forums, Usenet, etc.) that we can point to for reference, but some things, like the American legal system, just aren't geared for such things yet (booking files of Multnomah County notwithstanding :-) --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I am in the process of doing some massive editing of the controversy section, adding a bunch of dates, specifically, his criminal activities, when warrants were issued for his arrest in various different jurisdictions, such as Oregon, Washington, and Massachusetts, as well more details on his juvenile criminal record, which is public information in Washington State. In Washington, unless you go through a process of petitioning the court to expunge and remove the records from the court file, the juvenile records are still applicable as convictions. A lot of folk think that as soon as you turn 18 years of age, the records go away, which hasn't been the truth for almost 20 years in most US States. All information about his arrest and convictions are from public record, and these are available by request. His moves between Portland and Bellevue and back are from his appearances at furry meets in Seattle and Portland areas as a resident of those areas. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 00:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:Should some things be separated out of the controversies section? That section is getting a little cluttered, plus, the concept "Sibe goes to jail for x, x, x" is fact. The controversies would be something someone could easily disagree with or question, i.e. things like Sibe getting banned from cons, where there are some who believe this was unfair. The "fact" stuff could nicely stay listed, but I also wonder if "controversies" would look better written up. I'm thinking more of the aesthetics than a lack of neutrality. Normally I'd just go ahead and do this myself, but I like to avoid drama, and drama seems to gravitate towards the mere mention of Sibe. ;) [[User:IzzyFerret|IzzyFerret]] 03:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

::I agree, it is getting a little long there, and the title doesn't correctly describe the section - the actions ''have'' raised controversy, but they are not generally in question. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

:::Changing the name may be a good idea.-- [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 13:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I've given the controversy section a new name for the moment in order to see if it works better than the last one in describing the listed activities. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]<sup>([[User talk:Markus|talk]])</sup> 22:04, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

*cough* Why was my revert taken off? Either Sibe, or someone posing as him, HAS been posting to Yiffstar http://hoxdna.org/yiffstar/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=23339&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 is the main thread that's spoken of. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 9:47 AM, Junee 3rd 2006 (EST)

:Looking at the entry in question, the posts (by a poster going by "SexySibe") contain misspellings and abbreviations that are nothing like Sibe has used in the past (''Who here has a myspace u i dont ur a fucking loser! seriously who donsent ahve those thse days? I do name :B.Lord Email:blordisafreakyboy@gmail.com''), the e-mail address doesn't agree with any aliases he's used in the past, and the poster claims to be from Shreveport, Louisiana, when Sibe is currently (?) incarcerated in Oregon. It's not Sibe, it's just someone who is probably ignorant of the infamy of the nickname. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 14:21, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
::I concur with the assessment given here in that since Sibe is encarcerated, the only logical assumption left is that someone is attempting to use his name or imitate him and is doing rather poorly after readng Duncan's excerpt. Plus, the topic in question is available only to registered users, and thus not everyone can access it without registering first making it information that isn't readily accessible or public as far as I'm concerned. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]<sup>([[User talk:Markus|talk]])</sup> 16:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Alright, was just curious then. I don't know Sibe, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info on the matter...and, I apologize then for not checking any background. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 2:04 PM, June 3 2006 (EST)

== Prison ==

Would somebody please provide sources for the news that Sibe is going to prison, as well as the "various lawsuits and orders of protection" and the "multiple federal counts"? --[[User:Kitch|Kitch]] 03:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

:Sibe is currently in Multnomah County jail. As for the federal stuff, I don't know the full details. I will most likely be rewriting the 7 March with verifiable facts rather than suppositions on the anon editor's part --[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 10:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

::I am afraid I must confess to having made that edit. I knew you would be incommunicado for awhile and thought I'd post something at least until you could get back and post more direct information. I was doing my best trying to remember what you'd told me. My sincerest apologies. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 06:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

:::No big deal. Kitch, if you look through the rest of the discussion above, you'll see that I am one of the folks who had him processed served for an order of protection, along with Further Confusion's parent corporation. The lawsuits are from Shanda Fantasy Arts, Rabbit Valley, and Monitor Studios (parent corporation of SexyFur.com) that I have been able to confirm. -[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 08:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

Edits have been done after a few weeks of delay (due to having to deal with a family emergency). The previous massive edit by an IP address was done by me, due to me forgetting to log into WikiFur (DOH!). The only change made was the removal of a word and removal of the "federal stuff", which is supposition. The sourcing of the 17 February 2006, 7 March 2006, 5 December 2002, and 3 May 2002 comes from audio of the hearings, which will be made available to anyone who asks. The 23 March 2006 entry was from concerns that he was released early, however both VINELink and phone calls to Multnomah County Jail indicate his continued incarceration. Also made a slight mistake in date formatting that I have edited to correct for the 3 May 2002 entry -[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 08:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

== Controversy section ==

I think the "Controversy" label on his legal activity record is becoming a bit dated. I agree with previous comments this chronology is not really controversial; to my knowledge, no one has contested it (rather hard to, as much of it is a matter of legal public record). Perhaps it should be renamed "Legal Timeline" or something similar. "Controversy" should only be used to describe disputable information; you cannot get much more <i>in</i>disputable in the U.S. than a public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 18:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

:And I also agree that if it's not controversial, it shouldn't be called controversy. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 06:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

== Fredryk Phox/Sibe Video ==

I found this while looking for Sibe info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIUME4orE - not sure where it'd fit, but figured I'd post the link anyway in case someone wanted to write something about it. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Interesting - I'd not seen that. It says it was done some time in 2004, which would link up with statements about recently being sued. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Sibe on judicial television show? ==

I saw a video, which (if my memory is correct) was (1) from the "Judge Joe Brown" television show, (2) with Sibe accused of crashing a car and (3) the judge ruled in the favour of the plaintiff. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:I think you're misremembering. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 02:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:Are you thinking maybe Judge Mathis wherein Divefox was sued for mooching off of his roomates? There was a car crash in the process. That's also where the phrase "Don't forget my Internet!" originated. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
::Oops, thank you Douglas and Rat. I did see a judicial show with Divefox, but I'd forgotten Divefox was in it. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 12:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== add to 18 March 2002 paragraph? ==

Paragraph includes "[..] in exchange for his 5 other charges (including the 2001 shotgun arrest) dismissed) and was sentenced [..]". What do people think of "dismissed) and was sentenced" getting changed to "'''being''' dismissed. He was sentenced"? --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}

:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.

:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - "outing" their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.

:If Sibe truly is trying to "go straight" - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply "wipe away" the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them.

:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:: I too agree. I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==

Aye, Nay, Abstain:

'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the "spite" incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Abstain, with a twist'''. There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain. However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer. Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in. He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period. We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit. I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him. This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to him name. If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]]05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-12T08:18:28Z

Gray Coyote: /* What to do with Sibe's real name? */

{{featured}}

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]]
</div>
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. I have changed things a bit to reflect that reality -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)
:I was the one who originally wrote "arrested", and I acknowledge that you seem to have better information than I. Looks like a good edit to me.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a minor revision to reflect that it's not just piracy related lawsuits that he's being served with, but also orders of protection, as well as the correct year for his original conviction. It will also make clear that the arrest was due to his warrant, not due to a new crime, as well as the circumstances behind the warrant being issued in the first place. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I am also clarifying the fact that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log does not indicate that the police have arrested him for a new crime. It is only a placeholder due to his previous conviction. Though I'm certainly not a neutral party, nothing is served by wild rumors, speculation, and incorrect information. Though Sibe may engage in that sort of behavior, I will not and will do my best to correct mistakes and bring more verifiable facts to light. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you very much for your edits to this article. I agree wholeheartedly that misinformation is worse than no information at all. The more accuracy we have here, the better!--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted overnight, and a new entry into the controversy section was entered under 14 February 2006. He did not delete it himself, due to him being in county custody.[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 20:17 14 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:I'm curious about the mention of Sibe being process-served while in custody. Although I've seen calls for people to do this, do we have any proof that this was actually done? --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 20:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::Email statements made by Mike Curtis of Shanda Fantasy Arts, Summer Jackson who is the attorney for AAE, and phone statement by Rabbit Valley to me. Unfortunately until I can get the "Return of Service" paperwork from them, I will have to trust them at their word. Summer Jackson is an attorney and bound by ethics code in California, and the other two have active lawsuits against him, and nothing is served by them lying about their own lawsuit. He also has to be served with a renewal of my own order. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 01:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, no problems. I confess I asked mainly out of idle curiosity, and I'm sorry if it came across as "put up or shut up" because I assure you that was not my intention. As we do strive to be semi-encyclopedic, it's always better if we have some online statement (forums, Usenet, etc.) that we can point to for reference, but some things, like the American legal system, just aren't geared for such things yet (booking files of Multnomah County notwithstanding :-) --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I am in the process of doing some massive editing of the controversy section, adding a bunch of dates, specifically, his criminal activities, when warrants were issued for his arrest in various different jurisdictions, such as Oregon, Washington, and Massachusetts, as well more details on his juvenile criminal record, which is public information in Washington State. In Washington, unless you go through a process of petitioning the court to expunge and remove the records from the court file, the juvenile records are still applicable as convictions. A lot of folk think that as soon as you turn 18 years of age, the records go away, which hasn't been the truth for almost 20 years in most US States. All information about his arrest and convictions are from public record, and these are available by request. His moves between Portland and Bellevue and back are from his appearances at furry meets in Seattle and Portland areas as a resident of those areas. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 00:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:Should some things be separated out of the controversies section? That section is getting a little cluttered, plus, the concept "Sibe goes to jail for x, x, x" is fact. The controversies would be something someone could easily disagree with or question, i.e. things like Sibe getting banned from cons, where there are some who believe this was unfair. The "fact" stuff could nicely stay listed, but I also wonder if "controversies" would look better written up. I'm thinking more of the aesthetics than a lack of neutrality. Normally I'd just go ahead and do this myself, but I like to avoid drama, and drama seems to gravitate towards the mere mention of Sibe. ;) [[User:IzzyFerret|IzzyFerret]] 03:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

::I agree, it is getting a little long there, and the title doesn't correctly describe the section - the actions ''have'' raised controversy, but they are not generally in question. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

:::Changing the name may be a good idea.-- [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 13:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I've given the controversy section a new name for the moment in order to see if it works better than the last one in describing the listed activities. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]<sup>([[User talk:Markus|talk]])</sup> 22:04, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

*cough* Why was my revert taken off? Either Sibe, or someone posing as him, HAS been posting to Yiffstar http://hoxdna.org/yiffstar/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=23339&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 is the main thread that's spoken of. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 9:47 AM, Junee 3rd 2006 (EST)

:Looking at the entry in question, the posts (by a poster going by "SexySibe") contain misspellings and abbreviations that are nothing like Sibe has used in the past (''Who here has a myspace u i dont ur a fucking loser! seriously who donsent ahve those thse days? I do name :B.Lord Email:blordisafreakyboy@gmail.com''), the e-mail address doesn't agree with any aliases he's used in the past, and the poster claims to be from Shreveport, Louisiana, when Sibe is currently (?) incarcerated in Oregon. It's not Sibe, it's just someone who is probably ignorant of the infamy of the nickname. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]<sup>([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])</sup> 14:21, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
::I concur with the assessment given here in that since Sibe is encarcerated, the only logical assumption left is that someone is attempting to use his name or imitate him and is doing rather poorly after readng Duncan's excerpt. Plus, the topic in question is available only to registered users, and thus not everyone can access it without registering first making it information that isn't readily accessible or public as far as I'm concerned. ----[[User:Markus|Markus]]<sup>([[User talk:Markus|talk]])</sup> 16:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Alright, was just curious then. I don't know Sibe, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info on the matter...and, I apologize then for not checking any background. [[User:Lucashoal|Lucashoal]] 2:04 PM, June 3 2006 (EST)

== Prison ==

Would somebody please provide sources for the news that Sibe is going to prison, as well as the "various lawsuits and orders of protection" and the "multiple federal counts"? --[[User:Kitch|Kitch]] 03:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

:Sibe is currently in Multnomah County jail. As for the federal stuff, I don't know the full details. I will most likely be rewriting the 7 March with verifiable facts rather than suppositions on the anon editor's part --[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 10:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

::I am afraid I must confess to having made that edit. I knew you would be incommunicado for awhile and thought I'd post something at least until you could get back and post more direct information. I was doing my best trying to remember what you'd told me. My sincerest apologies. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 06:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

:::No big deal. Kitch, if you look through the rest of the discussion above, you'll see that I am one of the folks who had him processed served for an order of protection, along with Further Confusion's parent corporation. The lawsuits are from Shanda Fantasy Arts, Rabbit Valley, and Monitor Studios (parent corporation of SexyFur.com) that I have been able to confirm. -[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 08:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

Edits have been done after a few weeks of delay (due to having to deal with a family emergency). The previous massive edit by an IP address was done by me, due to me forgetting to log into WikiFur (DOH!). The only change made was the removal of a word and removal of the "federal stuff", which is supposition. The sourcing of the 17 February 2006, 7 March 2006, 5 December 2002, and 3 May 2002 comes from audio of the hearings, which will be made available to anyone who asks. The 23 March 2006 entry was from concerns that he was released early, however both VINELink and phone calls to Multnomah County Jail indicate his continued incarceration. Also made a slight mistake in date formatting that I have edited to correct for the 3 May 2002 entry -[[User:Gray Coyote|GrayCoyote]] 08:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC).

== Controversy section ==

I think the "Controversy" label on his legal activity record is becoming a bit dated. I agree with previous comments this chronology is not really controversial; to my knowledge, no one has contested it (rather hard to, as much of it is a matter of legal public record). Perhaps it should be renamed "Legal Timeline" or something similar. "Controversy" should only be used to describe disputable information; you cannot get much more <i>in</i>disputable in the U.S. than a public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 18:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

:And I also agree that if it's not controversial, it shouldn't be called controversy. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]<sup>([[User talk:Siege|talk]])</sup> 06:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

== Fredryk Phox/Sibe Video ==

I found this while looking for Sibe info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIUME4orE - not sure where it'd fit, but figured I'd post the link anyway in case someone wanted to write something about it. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

:Interesting - I'd not seen that. It says it was done some time in 2004, which would link up with statements about recently being sued. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

== Sibe on judicial television show? ==

I saw a video, which (if my memory is correct) was (1) from the "Judge Joe Brown" television show, (2) with Sibe accused of crashing a car and (3) the judge ruled in the favour of the plaintiff. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:I think you're misremembering. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 02:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
:Are you thinking maybe Judge Mathis wherein Divefox was sued for mooching off of his roomates? There was a car crash in the process. That's also where the phrase "Don't forget my Internet!" originated. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
::Oops, thank you Douglas and Rat. I did see a judicial show with Divefox, but I'd forgotten Divefox was in it. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 12:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== add to 18 March 2002 paragraph? ==

Paragraph includes "[..] in exchange for his 5 other charges (including the 2001 shotgun arrest) dismissed) and was sentenced [..]". What do people think of "dismissed) and was sentenced" getting changed to "'''being''' dismissed. He was sentenced"? --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]<sup>([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])</sup> 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system.

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-09-12T05:51:58Z

Gray Coyote: /* Request for removal */

Evil Sibe

2006-09-01T20:42:39Z

Gray Coyote: /* Timeline */

[[Image:Sibe.png|right|thumb|Ross Herbert Reddick, aka Sibe]]

'''Sibe''' (also known as '''EvilSibe''', or '''Sibe Roo''' on [[FurNation Worlds]]. Complete name: '''Ross Herbert Reddick''') is a member of the [[furry]] community who has participated in various [[:Category:Newsgroups|newsgroups]] and [[:Category:Multiplayer worlds|multiplayer worlds]]. He gained widespread infamy in the [[furry fandom]] through illegally distributing the copyrighted works of several [[:Category:Artists|furry artists]] throughout 2001, and has cemented his reputation with his subsequent actions.

Sibe has the possibly unique honor of having been banned by at least three major and some minor [[:Category:Conventions|conventions]] - [[ConFurence]], [[Eurofurence]] and [[Further Confusion]] - since 2002. This apparently did not prevent him from continuing to attend, and allegedly, [http://www.furtherconfusion.org/forums/msg.php?th=482 "cause more problems"] for Further Confusion and other conventions. He ''was'' legally present at [[ConiFur]] 2004.

Sibe has also been [[Toading|toaded]] from [[Tapestries MUCK]] on numerous occasions, initially due to harassment and advertisement of his pirate CDs, later compounded by organizing a [[Wikipedia:Distributed Denial of Service|DDoS]] on the MUCK server. [http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=7150&rid=&S=032610e07d6e92af23206b06dc0f9525 According] to [[WhiteWizard]]:

:''Nobody comes close to Sibe [on toading]. Sibe is how we find out about all the new free-mail sites.''

''[[West Corner Of the Park (comic)|West Corner of the Park]]'' has [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20060319 depicted] Sibe as a [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20011110 giant] [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20020107 slug], although this includes an element of artistic license. His ''chosen'' avatar is (and always has been) that of a breed of dog, the Siberian Husky, from which he derived his name.

== Timeline ==

[[Image:Sibe.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe: "Big snugly husky dog that luvs everyone. <3"]]
*'''9 December 1995''': Sibe arrested for Domestic Violence Assault in the Fourth Degree against his father. He was sentenced to three months probation, 16 hours community service (time served), and lost his right to possess firearms in Washington State. Terms of his probation include not engaging in unwanted physical contact with family members and others.
*'''6 March 1996''': Sibe is again arrested for DV-Assault 4 against his father. The hearing was delayed due to him being checked into a psychiatric institution in the state of Idaho. It is currently unknown how long he was in the institution. A warrant was issued for his arrest for failure to appear and was valid for almost 18 months until he filed for quashing the warrant on his 18th birthday for the juvenile court's lack of jurisdiction. The King County Prosecutor's office declined to prosecute him in adult court for that incident and the case was dismissed.
*'''8 September 1998''': Sibe makes his first post onto the [[alt.lifestyle.furry]] newsgroup. The posting was about the first [[Conifur]] that occurred at the SeaTac Clarion Hotel in SeaTac, Washington. Claims were made in regards to Sibe's perceived discrimination against him for not wearing enough furry related things at Conifur. The truthfulness of the postings is in dispute.
*'''19 January 1999''': Sibe makes his first post in [[alt.fan.furry]], again critical of the furry fandom for his treatment and launching attacks on furry lifestylers.
*'''20 January 1999''': Sibe is involved in an vehicle accident on I-405 in Kirkland, Washington that results in injury and resulted in a lawsuit against him by the victim. The case is eventually settled in 2002 out of court with terms undisclosed.
*'''6 March 2001''': Sibe is arrested for violating ORS (short for Oregon Revised Statute) 166.370, possession of a loaded firearm in a public building, specifically Herald College in Portland, OR. He possessed a shotgun on the grounds of an educational institution in his duffel bag, which is illegal unless you fall into one of the exceptions in the statute. He is given pre-trial intervention/diversion, where if he had not been arrested for any further crimes, his charge would have been dismissed.
*'''20 September 2001''': Sibe is involved in a 4-car vehicle accident in North Bend, Washington. He is cited for reckless driving due to the high rate of speed he was driving (45-50MPH) and running a stop sign.
*'''3 October 2001''': [[Killen]] alleges that Sibe's disagreements with him resulted in the flooding of [[northUKfurs (IRC)|#northUKfurs]] on [[Yiffnet]] by Sibe's associates. Sibe has stated that although he has attacked other IRC channels in the past, he did not attack this one. Some instances of IRC downtime have been mis attributed to Sibe in the past, for example an attack on #dragonyiff on [[FurNet (IRC)|FurNet]] that was led by [[Something Awful]] [[goons]].
[[Image:PafSibeBadge.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[Chris Goodwin]]]]
*'''9 November 2001''': [[Nexxus]] temporarily closed [[FurNation]], [http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490 allegedly] as the result of Sibe's pirating actions (which may have been based on FurNation archives). These were centered around [[yiffnetbeats (IRC)|#yiffnetbeats]] on [[Yiffnet]], where Sibe and others offered files for download. The channel was initially designed to be a furry theme MP3 sharing channel. Ironically, Nexxus' post about the channel caused a spike in traffic, with over 50 users in one night and 5GB distributed in 8 hours by one serving user.
*'''18 March 2002''': After disagreements and a fight, Sibe forcibly took the car of a person named Brian Floyd (unaffiliated with the [[furry fandom]]) with whom he was staying, and made Brian give him access to his (Brian's) PIN number. According to the order of protection filed against Sibe to keep him away after his acts of violence against him, he then threatened Brian that he would make him disappear if he called the cops. After Sibe left, Brian called 911. Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown [[Wikipedia:Portland, Oregon|Portland]] to spend the cash at a gay night club and dance bar called the ''[http://www.silveradopdx.com/ Silverado]''. After spending the money at the bar, he drove to [[Wikipedia:Camas, Washington|Camas, Washington]] with one of the dancers from the bar. At approximately 7 a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges). He spent a week in jail, was bailed out, then re-arrested when he appeared in court in Oregon. He later pleaded no contest to the Class C felony of coercion in exchange for his 5 other charges (including the 2001 shotgun arrest) dismissed) and was sentenced to 36 months probation with credit for time served (45 days in Multnomah County Jail).
*'''May 2002''': A warrant is issued for the arrest of Sibe for failure to appear in court in Issaquah, Washington in regards to his reckless driving charge. This was not taken care of until September 2004.
*'''3 May 2002''': A hearing is held in regards to possible release. His attorney identifies Sibe as having significant psychiatric problems, including being diagnosed as having bipolar disorder by two different psychiatrists in his youth. Disciplinary problems include: Fighting, flooding his cell with water causing $1500 worth of damage, failing to follow directions of jail deputies. As a result of his disciplinary problems, he was put under lockdown. Judge Beckman orders the jail to allow a psychiatrist into the jail for his psychiatric care.
*'''5 December 2002''': Sibe is sentenced to 36 months of probation plus time served, and is ordered to obey all laws, restricted internet usage, and to not use drugs, among other provisions.
*'''9 November 2003''': One of [fxc]'s (Furries Exchanging Comics), the furry [[wikipedia:Warez|warez]] group that Sibe founded, had a home at irc.rizon.net #furryxdcc. Shortly after this date they released their first releases, including ''[[Furnation Magazine]]'' 1-4 , [[Fred Perry]]'s folios and [[Max The Black Rabbit]]'s ''Canine Portfolio''. The group proclaimed that they were the premier group for scanning in commercial furry content. At one point there was a furry [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|BitTorrent]] tracker up at www.f-x-c.net, which saw 3,000 individuals sign up world wide to download packs of scanned furry comics, retail art CD's and portfolios of the top [[furry artist|artists]] in the fandom.
[[Image:WhiteWolfSibeBadgeforweb.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[WhiteWolf]]]]
*'''30 August 2004''': [[Rabbit Valley|Rabco Publishing]] files a claim against Ross Reddick in Waltham, MA small claims court for $2,000 in damages for replication and distribution of copyrighted material. These damages are awarded on '''14 December 2004''', and the defendant is ordered to pay a total of $2,109.70 including legal fees and interest.
*'''13 September 2004''': Sibe (as EvilSibe and any other identity he will ever create for the purpose) is permanently banned from the [[Something Awful]] Forums. His ban was due to his sarcastic comments to [[Richard "Lowtax" Kyanka|LowTax]] (The Something Awful SysAdmin) during the [[Brian Sek]] and [[The Kadaitcha Dancers]] "I'm being stalked by furries" thread.
*'''November 2004''': Sibe moves to Bellevue, Washington from Portland, Oregon and did not notify his probation judge.
*'''6 December 2004''': Sibe is sentenced to 1 year of probation by the King County District Court for his reckless driving case from 2001.
*'''28 December 2004''': After being unable to find Sibe's current address due to lack of notification of his move to Washington State in late November 2004, and failing to appear to a probation hearing due to a report of illegal activities by the [[Wikipedia:Federal Bureau of Investigation|FBI]], Judge Douglas Beckman of the Multnomah County Circuit Court issues a warrant for Sibe's arrest with no bail allowed. The warrant was not extraditable outside of Oregon.
*'''24 January 2005''': A warrant is issued for Sibe's arrest by the trial court of Waltham, Massachusetts for failure to appear to the payment hearing from his default judgment against him by Rabbit Valley Publishing.
*'''16 June 2005''': Sibe was [http://www.ljdrama.org/index.php?p=1155 featured] on ljdrama.org for "[[Sibeing]]" Munchie the kitsune after he traveled cross country to find what he thought was an older woman, who turned out to be a 14 year old boy. Sibe made a prank call with all of the parties involved. You can find the lj drama article here : http://www.ljdrama.org/index.php?p=1155 and the mp3 of the phone call with munchie the kitsune here : http://www.squnq.com/junk/munchies_problem.mp3
*'''18 July 2005''': Sibe (as ''evilsibe'') was suspended from LiveJournal.com for posting an image from the website thepiratebay.org which linked to the ''"fxc" encyclopedia 2004'', a [[Wikipedia:Bittorrent|torrent]] that had 9.55 gigs of [[furry art]] in it, including the works of [[Ken Sample]], [[Karabiner]], [[Grimal]], [[FoxxFire]] and many more. When he created a new journal to circumvent the suspension, he was permanently banned. He later moved to GreatestJournal.com, where his tag-line was ''sibeing the fandom one wag at a time''.
*'''September 2005''': Sibe moves back to Portland, Oregon from Bellevue, Washington. He does not notify his probation judge in Washington of his new address in Oregon. In this month his Oregon warrant was also updated to extraditable from Washington, Idaho, and Western Montana as part of a change in policy in regards dealing with felony offenses against persons in Oregon, due to the ability of criminals previous to this to run to Washington and evade capture.
*'''9/10 September 2005''': "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph ''"As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrant on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested,'' announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at [[Nexxus]], and ends it by professing his love for his family, and thanks his friends for being there for him. His friends reactions is mixed, with a few believing its a prank, to those who believe it truly happening, and what can they do to help. Its this last reaction that forces Sibe to admit that the whole thing was ''"a gag and Im allright."'' Again, reaction to this admission is mixed: from the "I knew it, Lol!," to the "How dare you deceive your friends that care for you!." For the last ones, Sibe had a simple response: ''"Fuck em if they cant take a joke then."''
*'''13 January 2006''': Sibe was verbally served with a [[Wikipedia:Restraining order|restraining order]] through [[AAE]], the parent non-profit corporation of Further Confusion, that effectively made all grounds of the Hotel hosting FC 2006 off limits to Sibe, under penalty of immediate arrest. The timing of the restraining order (starting on the 20th) was such that he was not able to contest it until 2 February 2006, well after the convention was over. The result was that he did not attend the convention, despite suggestions from others that he was present, and in contrast to previous years (in which Sibe had been banned, but still attended).
[[Image:Darknatashasibebadgelowres5km.jpg|right|thumb|Sibe, by [[Dark Natasha]]]]
*'''5 February 2006''': Sibe was booked into Multnomah County (Oregon) Justice Center by officers of the [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] for the warrant issued on 28 December 2004. As he now had a fixed address (Multnomah County Justice Center), he was process-served for various lawsuits and orders of protection. Despite speculation on various sites that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log indicated that he committed a new domestic violence offense, particularly against his mate Bound Wolf, the real reason why Multnomah County Sheriff's noted the DV-Coercion in his booking file was due to the charge that he was convicted of in 2002 in exchange for his plea of no contest. Whether this was intentional or an error on their part is unknown.
*'''14 February 2006''': Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted, though not by Sibe since he was still in custody at the time. It was not suspended by Greatest Journal, which leads to speculation of possible evidence tampering.
*'''17 February 2006''': A hearing for violation of probation is convened at 9:30AM at Multnomah County Circuit Courthouse. Judge Douglas Beckman presiding. Sibe stipulates to evading the warrant for his arrest and continued to abscond, use of internet outside of Judge Beckman's authorization, and stipulation to the use of marijuana, as well as traffic violations. Judge Beckman, during the defense attorney's statements about Sibe's accomplishments of having a job for nearly a year, brought up the issue of police reports filed for sexual abuse and misconduct by four different persons, including the father of a 2 year old girl who accused Sibe of sexually abusing his daughter. The father of the 2 year old was deported and as a result the case was dropped due to the lack of witnesses (the daughter was removed from the country by ICE with her father). His computer is ordered seized and turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for forensic examination. The hearing is held over until 7 March 2006 for hearing. Sibe offers up a Compaq laptop as his personal computer.
*'''7 March 2006''': Due to Sibe's misrepresenting to the court that his Compaq laptop was his only personal computer (the FBI forensics examiners determined that the computer was a "brick". "ancient", and had only been used three times since 2003 for dial up usage), along with the stipulations to his violations of probation, he receives a 6 month jail sentence for the probation violations, plus 3 years' parole. His 30 days held at the Multnomah County (Oregon) Justice Center thus far does not count as time served toward this sentence due primarily to his misrepresentation to the court.
*'''23 March 2006''': An email is sent from [http://www.vinelink.com VINElink] victim notification services that he was released from Oregon Department of Corrections. However, he is still in Multnomah County Jail until 3 September 2006 according to Multnomah County Jail Custody Records, and his other entries into VINElink indicate that he is still in the custody of Multnomah County Jail. A search through [http://www.inmatereleases.org/ Multnomah County Jail Inmate Early Releases Database] indicates that he has not been released, either.
*'''1 September 2006''': Sibe is released from jail and put under the supervision of the Oregon Department of Corrections for a period of 3 years. The slightly early release is due to the calculated release date not being on a government business day.

== References ==
* ''[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/976ed1874bd7f212 The latest on Sibe]'', an [[alt.fan.furry]] posting from 2002 by Brian Floyd about Sibe's actions.
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20011025103610/http://nuk.ufuria.org/031001_sibe.txt Log of the attack alleged to be by Sibe on #northUKfurs]
* [http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=20&c2coff=1&q=author%3Arreddi60%40hotmail.com&safe=off&qt_s=Search Various newsgroup postings by Sibe] (not a complete archive)
* Court's ruling in the case of Rabco Publishing vs Ross H. Reddick (Docket Number 200451SC000862). [PDF]
* [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/cf36a8715d11e5e5/dd808e8f2f0ea7b1 Sibe's criminal record] 
* [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/8634.html Sibe's confirmation and denial of some of the things mentioned in a previous version of this article]
* ''[http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=734 Rumors spread - Sibe behind bars?]'' at [[Flayrah]]
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/a3448f750f043334 An interview of Sibe] by [[RuheMaus]]
* [http://www.furtherconfusion.org/forums/msg.php?th=327 A conversation] between Sibe and [[WhiteFire]] about his banning from [[Further Confusion]] 2003; includes link to [http://photobucket.com/albums/v454/evilsibe/Conifur/ Sibe's avatar, and pictures of Conifur 2004] - password: sibepix
* ''[http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fur.artwork.erotica/browse_frm/thread/cf337a53011d6eea My conifur 2004 experience]''
*The posts, [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/19766.html (1)] and [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/20156.html (2)], about the "fake" arrest incident.(Marked as deleted)
*The [http://www.furryfandom.com/fc06sibe.mp3 first audio message] of the intent of serving Sibe with an restraining order through AAE on behalf of Further Confusion.
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furrtive/381797.html Details regarding Sibe's arrest for probation violation in February, 2006] (marked as deleted)
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lifestyle.furry/browse_thread/thread/1d3ecabc4f948b29/5e7ebe37bf896975?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#5e7ebe37bf896975 Sibe's first post on alt.lifestyle.furry]
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/1beb4306a6581045/3f6123536f89e30c Sibe's first post on alt.fan.furry]

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Sibe}}
* [http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/evilsibe/ Sibe's Journal] (as EvilSibe) at [[GreatestJournal]] (marked as deleted as of February 14, 2006)
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGIUME4orE Sibe's video interview] with [[Fredryk Phox]], late 2004

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Husky characters]]
{{Featured article}}

User:Gray Coyote

2006-07-08T09:21:46Z

Gray Coyote:

{{User Anthrocon}}
{{User Further Confusion}}
<div style="float: left; border:solid #D0D0D0 1px; margin: 1px;">
{| cellspacing="0" style="width: 238px;"
| style="width: 45px; height: 45px; background: #F0F0F0; text-align: center; font-size: 14pt; color: black;" | '''[[Image:MFFglobe-50px.png]]'''
| style="font-size: 8pt; padding: 4pt; line-height: 1.25em; color: black; background: #F0F0F0;" | This user will be attending<br/>'''[[Midwest FurFest]]'''.
|}</div>[[Category:Midwest FurFest Wikifurries|{{PAGENAME}}]]
<br>
{{Inuse}}

2006-02-16T01:21:27Z

Gray Coyote: /* Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath */

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-02-16T01:19:52Z

Gray Coyote: /* Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath */

== Attention, Regarding link to Criminal record ==
The link has been approved as allowed information in regards all privacy laws, public information laws and terms of services for all websites involved. Please see [[User_talk:Nidonocu#Personal_contact_information.3F]] for the discussion regarding this. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 00:06, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Numerous edits have been made to this page since the annoucement of WikiFur. These edits removed information from the page, and so were reverted. When I made the page, I tried to stick to the facts. So far, there has been no debate over them, but there is debate about whether or not they set Sibe in a fair light. There is also debate over whether his real name should be on this page.

Here is a log of a chat on the Wikicities debating this topic, mostly between myself, [[User:Offline|Offline]], and [[User:Markus|Markus]]:

<div style="font-size:8pt; line-height: 9pt; white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana"><nowiki>
(GreenReaper): Anyway, questions?
(Offline): I do have a question. now this is not ment to cause harm in anyway. But why is the option to edit the sibe entry not there anymore?
(Offline): It really looks as if it's violating the ToS. and whit it being so one-sided, People can't even edit it to add good things.
(GreenReaper): I removed the option to edit the sibe article because it had been the target of numerous deletions and alterations, both by people who seemed to support him and seemed not to. None of them was particularly factual or neutral
(Offline): Ahhh.
(GreenReaper): Well, see http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=678&oldid=621
(Offline): still however, it really makes him out to be a really bad guy. Now, I'm not a huge supporter of sibe, or am i even a supporter of the fandom. but it does include his real name.
(Offline): And since it does include his real name, it's more of an attack on his actual person rather than his made up character.
(GreenReaper): So are you saying that the information on there is incorrect? I don't know him personally, but I looked around, and from what I could see, he really *was* a bad guy.
(GreenReaper): I have tried to include information that I found that puts him in a more positive light, like the Conifur 2004 visit
(GreenReaper): but frankly, the balance of evidence shows that he has on numerous occasions caused trouble to many people in the furry fandom.
(GreenReaper): If you have evidence showing that he is, in fact, the savior of mankind, I invite you to post it on the discussion page (as I think I mentioned in user talk)
(GreenReaper): if it checks out as a factual source, it goes in.
(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not. I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated. the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.
* GreenReaper nods.
(Offline): if a link happens to have his real name in it, then whatever. however, the name "Ross Reddick" should be removed from the top of the page there.
(GreenReaper): I am for the separation of real life and the furry fandom where desired, in most circumstances. However in this particular case there is a reason that overrides that, and that reason is that he has demonstrably been a danger to at least one person, caused trouble to many, and may be in the future.
(GreenReaper): Putting the name means it's less likely he can just change his nickname and cause trouble.
(Offline): I know there are many furrys out there who would not like to have their real name posted. I figure it's more respect than anything else. they would rather be known as their "character". Am I right?
(GreenReaper): For example, if he registers at AC 2006 under the name "niceguy", who's to know?
(GreenReaper): You're right. It's in the Category:People page. I wrote it myself. In this case, I feel there is a demonstrable need for his real name to be there.
(Offline): So it is one sided then?
(GreenReaper): People should not be able to escape their actions of such severity as demonstrated by the links currently there just by changing a nickname. To allow that is a problem.
(Offline): Some furs can have the respect of not getting their real name posted. but others due to past actions do not get the same respect.
(GreenReaper): Hmm? It has all the sides I found. Again, if there is a different side, please tell me of it.
(GreenReaper): With all due respect, some furs did not assualt other furs and then steal their cars. :-)
(Offline): that may be true. look at it from his side though.
(GreenReaper): Well, what I'd do if I were him would be to ensure that good things about me got into there, so it *didn't* make me look like someone not to associate with
(GreenReaper): and hopefully, that's the effect it will have. I'm not *that* hopeful, but I'm an optimist.
(GreenReaper): the fact that he managed to attend a convention in 2004 without actually being thrown out is a start on that.
(Offline): I'm sorry. I still think it's wrong to do this to one guy just because he is a fuck-up.
(GreenReaper): The lyrics "you do it to yourself, you do, you and no-one else" come to mind . . . but, if you think that, then do place that discussion on the user talk page.
(GreenReaper): In fact, I could place this entire log on there, if you think it would encourage discussion.
(GreenReaper): If the balance of opinion of people who have contributed well to this wiki is that his real name should be removed, then I will.
(Offline): Thats fine with me.
(Offline): However, I don't see it helping out much since this is Sibe were talking about.
(GreenReaper): Well, yes . . . and that is the point. :-)
(Offline): And I know that the vast majority of the community dislikes this guy very much.
(Offline): But even though you posted the Name rule there, you feel it's right to break it as *you?* see fit.
(GreenReaper): Yes, pretty much.
(GreenReaper): the "probably not a good idea" bit means it's a guideline
(GreenReaper): but even if I'd said it as an absolute rule at the time, I'd feel OK about breaking it if I thought it was right.
(Offline): There are alot of furs out there that I don't like, and there are furs I do like. Either way, no matter if there bad or good, I would give them the respect of keeping their name off this site.
(GreenReaper): Then I thank you. I would again say that in general, it is an excellent guideline to follow. The trouble is where people's online personas and their real life characters have significant overlap.
(GreenReaper): When Sibe tries to go to a convention to which he is banned, one way to at least try to prevent that is to stop people registering using ID with the name Ross Reddick.
(Offline): However, I'm quite sure that all the furry conventions know who this guy is. He does appear to be a widly known furry.
(Offline): I don't think that posting his real name is going to affect the furry conventions.
(Offline): At least, not anymore.
(Ruby_M): Hmm.
*** Ruby_M is now known as Mark_McCloud
(GreenReaper): Probably not. Let's consider the situation where someone new to the fandom comes around. Maybe they got involved with Sibe, only they don't know that since he uses a nickname - but he can't avoid being known as Ross in real life. Should they be able to find his past?
(GreenReaper): *uses a different nickname
(GreenReaper): I would say that, for their safety, they should.
(GreenReaper): If they decide to continue associating with him, it's their call.
(Mark_McCloud): Nice ta see ya Offie.
(GreenReaper): My main concern is that the information on that page is a fair representation. If it is that, then my conscience is clear. If it is not, that needs fixing.
(GreenReaper): The edits made previously did not offer new information that showed him in a better (or worse) light than the current information, and they removed existing information, so they were reverted, and as that continued, I decided to protect the page.
(Mark_McCloud): I myself had to defend a page that has been attacted a few times. The main page.
(Mark_McCloud): Some people..
(Offline): If a new furry were to join the fandom, I think it would be best if they made friends on their own, and not told how they should and shouldn't be friends with.
(Mark_McCloud): The page for Sibe is as neutral as can be. Saying he "smoked a bowl" is not fact in the way it was expressed, but a speculation or guess..
(Mark_McCloud): in any case.. I need to sleep.. I'll be checking for troll edits later after I get sleep.
* Mark_McCloud flopps and snores.
(JasonR): Really, His real name is only one click away from the Sibe page anyway (in the criminal record).
(Offline): I'm only asking that his real name be removed form the top of the page out of respect. Sure, he might not be the greatest person around, but I still feel it's wrong
(GreenReaper): Fair enough. That is your opinon, as the above is mine. Such opinions should be placed on the user talk page, where they can be debated. But consider: if most of those in the furry fandom have a bad opinion of him, any new member of the fandom would be quite likely to have the same reaction on hearing what he has done, and continued to do. And I think they should.
(Offline): Alright then. Thank you for listning to what I had to say.
(GreenReaper): I have respect for most people. But respect itself is a measure of opinion. The level of respect drops when the actions are not commesurate with that. Or, more simply: He's done a lot of bad things. The respect I feel I and others owe him as a human being is outweighed by them.
(GreenReaper): Things like "please don't come to a convention when you're not wanted" are based on mutual. If it is not returned, then eventually people stop giving it.
(GreenReaper): *based on mutual respect
(GreenReaper): I shall post this log on the talk page. I shall also post a note directing users there so that they may debate the protection.
(Offline): Thats cool. Thank you for at least considering it and opening it up for disscusion.
(GreenReaper): That is what a wiki is all about. :-)
</nowiki></div>

If you are a visitor to this page, your opinion on whether or not it is appropriate for Sibe's real name to be on the page would be welcome below. Also, any further reliable sources of information that you have could be useful. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:46, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== "Sold" pirated art? ==

I know that he's distributed and torrented various copyrighted works, such as Genus Male and a bunch of art sites such as "SexyFur," but where's the proof that he's actually ''sold'' the pirated artwork? I've never heard of that up until now.

Granted I hope this proof doesn't come from word-of-mouth. It seems that whenever Sibe is discussed, McCarthyism suddenly goes into full-effect and people try to one-up each other on what they've heard from the grapevine about $$DA EVIL HUSKEE$$. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:That's fair enough. I can't immediately see evidence for this in the sources, and none were marked as showng that, so I've changed it to "distributing" rather than "offering for sale". Thanks for helping make this article better! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:55, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::Oh it's no problem. Is there any chance of also getting a commentary on the scapegoating that occurs due to his infamy? Such as if anyone attacks a channel anywhere, or if something happens to anything furry related, the immidiate response is "it was Sibe!"? Not trying to portray him in a better light, because hey, the record's there (at least at the bottom of the page under "criminal record"), but just trying to add more information as to what happens with this dude. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:::Sure, if you can provide some evidence of it . . . for example, if there are newsgroup or forum posts of it occurring. I've not seen it myself, so I don't know.

:::Of course, you should be make sure that it's not '''really''' Sibe behind it all. He can be tricksy, that husky. Like a fox, only grayer! ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:24, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Oh of course. I know of one specifically that happened on FurNet in a channel called #dragonyiff. A bunch of furries (and some Something Awful goons, I think) with the idea to just flood a channel came in, then stopped when the channel was set to "mute." After the flood stopped, one of the few responses was that it was Sibe's doing. That's just one example. I'm not quite sure if it's incredibly apparent, though, but I'll be sure to try and remember more situations that've happened. [[User:Verix|Verix]] 03:45, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::: I never sold pirated art. Thats a blatent lie.

:::::: Sibe bragged about his Art CDs a few years ago. He tried to tease, claiming he stole my Art to make money. I have no further proofs he truely did sell CDs. Maybe you could ask "Rabbit Valley", they certainly know the information. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 16:48, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

== Hard Evidence ==

Since people were looking for factual information regarding Sibe, I have provided the admins of this site with the actual photocopy scans (in PDF form) of Sibe's criminal record and other related litigation records.

On a note for some of the more privacy minded people who have commented on this disccussion. This information is freely available through the [[Wikipedia:Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)|Freedom of Information Act of 1966]] and through the Privacy Act of 1974. Posting said information in a public forum or other press type format, such as this site, as a part of the [[Sibe]] article to present real and hard evidence of this person in question, is an activity which is specifically protected by the Constitution's first amendment and these two acts. Contrary to what some people have mentioned above, the posting of such information can not be legally constituted as slander because the name "Sibe" is considered a criminal alias for the purposes of identifying Mr. Ross Reddick, and because all information pertaining to such activities within his criminal record is factual. Slander must include some element of falsehood which is designed to ruin a person. Facts and truth are not slander no matter how unflattering they are. Additionally, since this information is directly pertinent to the furry community, it would be unfair in the interests of truth and neutrality to withhold or censor it. The facts should be allowed to speak for themselves, if they paint the person in a bad light then it falls upon the person in question to rectify their own actions.

Finally, if you are interested in more information about Mr. Reddick, then I suggest contacting the FBI and requesting a copy of his FBI file (Yes, one exists and is rather lengthy); contacting one of the groups whom is in currently in litigation with him, like [[Rabbit Valley Press]] or [[FurNation Press]]; or contacting the state/county that said litigation is under teh jurisdiction of.

--[[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 03:59, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Huh? Slander? Who mentioned anything about slander? Or am I just being lazy and not seeing mentions of it in that huge chatlog above or in the discussion I had with Green? -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:00, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Slander is an inference to what [[User:Offline|Offline]] was referring to with regards to the use of [[Sibe]]'s real name.

(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not.
I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that
it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated.
the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since
furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect
their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.

* Slander ≠ Libel. Sillies.

For the purposes of this discussion, what the law has to say about the name "Sibe" is that it's not a fictional character but a criminal alias of a real person. The use of his real name might be considered slanderous or an invasion of privacy if not for the FOIA. -- [[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 06:25, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Ahh. Okay, I figured it was my ADD. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, just an FYI after thought clarification on what I wrote as well: From the point of view of the law, there is a marked difference between an '''''Alias''''', and a '''''Fictional Name'''''. A fictional name is only used to refer to something which does not exist. However, a fictional name ceases being so when it is used to refer to a real person. This name association turns it into an alias, and aliases are '''not''' granted any legal right to privacy. The rationalle for placing aliases on public record and offering them no protection of privacy is to prevent the use of false or alternative names to commit acts of fraud. It is for this the very reason that a legal name change requires a court hearing in most states and one must swear under oath in front of a judge that the name change is not to defraud anyone or to commit future acts of fraud. If aliases were not covered like this, it would present an exploitable loop hole to commit fraud. Additionally, according to the law, the real world does not cease to exist just because someone's actions occur in some intangible virtual space such as IRC or Second Life. The person in the real world sitting behind the computer can be and often is held legally accountable for their actions, wether they be under a "fictional character name" or their real name. So, in closing, regardless of one's opinion on this, whether in agreement or not, it is important to understand that this precident is the one which is currently upheld within the United States judicial system. That's something to chew on and consider as a whole with regard to the whole 'name' rule for this site.

:I should point out that various furs do have valid, legitimate court orders of protection against Mr. Reddick. These furs do go to conventions, and the stipulations of several of their protection orders include "if Mr. Reddick is at the same location as the plaintiff, Mr. Reddick must leave."

: I should also point out (Sibe) that "various" furs do not have valid, legitimate anti-harassment orders against Mr. Reddick. The only one who does is Grey Fox Of Winter , AKA Loki Grey Coyote, aka Lonnie Wilson. That is the only "protection order" that has ever been served my person on a furrys behalf. The way Lonnie got this order was I emailed him, he responded with do not contact me anymore. Then I replied to that with "Why are you so mean?" He used that email discussion as grounds to get his anti-harassment order (less binding then a restraining order). The order will expire Feburary 2006. -Sibe

There's also an interesting interstate aspect of things: if a court order of protection is violated across or while across state lines, it carries 5+ years of jail time in a federal prison, minimum sentence.

Thus, if Mr. Reddick shows his face at a convention that I know one of these furs is at, I will be calling the FBI, and we'll be rid of him for a while.

: Winged

::Do you have links to scans of these court orders, or physical copies of them? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:16, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: The order of protection that was gotten by myself against Ross Reddick was served by publication, and became effective on April 13th, 2005, for a period of one year. It was then personally served on Mr. Reddick on May 8th, 2005 by Officer K. Boyd of the Tukwila Police Department at Southcenter Mall in Washington State. It is actually expiring on April 13th, 2006. The service by publication was done due to his evasion of process service. The reason for service by publication is not to have him arrested from his lack of knowledge from the order, it is to keep the petitioner from having to go to court multiple times to get the temporary ex-parte order renewed over and over again due to the respondant's evasive conduct.

:::Per [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.14.115 RCW 10.14.115], if he had contacted me or otherwise violated the order between April 13th and May 8th of 2005, he would not have been in violation of the order, unless he stated that he was an avid reader of legal notices in the King County Journal (which was the newspaper of legal notice record in the county). After that point, if he violated the terms, he is subject to arrest and contempt of court citation by the district court up here.

:::Anti-Harassment Orders are no less "binding" on the respondent than other forms of protection orders, it's just that violations of a Washington State anti-harassment order is a gross misdemeanor rather than a felony, as far as violations in the state of Washington goes. It could be felony level as far as other states depending on their laws of recognition of such orders from other states and how they translate into their matrix of orders of protection and punishments for violations of such, and federal law also has it's hand in it as well (going across state lines to violate orders of protection is a federal felony offense).

:::States have various different kinds of names for orders of protection, and different punishment levels for violations of such. Oregon's equivalent to Washington State's Anti-Harassment Orders are called "Stalking Protection Orders". The terms "Restraining Order" and "Order of Protection" should be assumed to be general terms encompassing the whole spectrum of such kinds of orders, because every state is different, and as was proven by Further Confusion, corporations can get orders of protection as well against individuals as well, at least in California. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Revert of questionable content ==

I reverted out the following edit to the History section, 20 March 2002:
:''Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown portland to blow the cash at a gay strip club called the Silverado. After blowing the money at the bar, getting drunk and buying drinks for everyone in the bar he drove to Camas, Washington with one of the strippers in the bar. At approximately 7a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges).''
It sounds questionable, it certainly isn't NPOV, and even if it's true, it strikes me as inflammatory and irrelevant detail, something I don't think WikiFur wants to get into. Fell free to discuss and decide if it should be restored.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 17:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:While I disagree in part with how the information was ''presented'', I do believe it is more than plausible given his other actions. If we're describing Sibe's character here, how he spent the money is relevant. I would feel uncomfortable about naming the dancer who went with him, but fortunately this did not come up. The terms of the writing were not NPOV - I have adjusted this. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:43, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

===Questionable links===
An Anonymous user has added information to the article under history and external links which leads to a site that, according to the "new" information in the article, contains a .torrent file which in itself allows a Bit Torrent user to download about 9GB of copyrighted material like that from Sexyfur among other sites. The same changes in the article suggest that Sibe had been banned from LJ because he refused to remove that link from his journal. If that much is true and the supporting evidence is correct, then it may be wise to remove the potentially illegal link(s) from the page to avoid any potential legal trouble. At this time, I have done so, though leaving the "written" email links in place. I would personally think that linking to a page that itself links to a potentially illegal pirated collection of pictures is an unsafe thing to do on this wiki. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Edit: On second thought, after reading the emails themselves, I find them a little dubious. They hold the real names and email addresses as well as phone numbers of a certain person, and if they are real, the people in question probably wouldn't want to be flooded with calls from heaven only knows how many people. The links so far are found on the thepiratebay website and are called "rabbit_mail", "rabbit_resp", and "rabbit_mail2" respectively and in order. I find them dubious though and probably the entire tracker system of the site may reflect its name, I won't care either way. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I'm unsure about this myself. I don't doubt that the emails are valid - actually I think they show [[Rabbit Valley]] in a fairly good light, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were fake.

:I did like the reference to [[PafCon]]:
Hope to see you at the annually furry-convention in Las Vegas! Our whole staff
will be going as the cast from the movie "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey"
:I don't think it's worth worrying about too much, though. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:19, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Exclusion ==

Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Please regard this as the official request for exclusion. [[User:Sibe|Sibe]]

:Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. A written request on a Wikifurry page without proper verification is not a valid form of request. As your IP indicates prior vandalism of Wikifurry entries, we have no way to confirm that you are "Ross H. Reddick," (Sibe.) Please refer to the first suggestion for proper exclusion. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:16, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::"Negative /r/ removal" is not a valid address. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:21, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I've temporarily protected the entry until the exclusion request is verified as actually being from Sibe by an [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]. Play by the rules, and we'll be happy to accomodate your request. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 20:12, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::I've been on the Wiki long enough and I consider myself to be friends with Greenreaper. I know I'm not an administrator, but I can verify that's Sibe. Trust me? :/ --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 20:51, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::This is a removal request from Sibe. The question is, do we accept it?

::[[WikiFur:Personal information]] has always had an important cavaet - ''at the discretion of the WikiFur administration''. To be blunt, out of all articles on WikiFur, this is the one I was thinking of most when I wrote that.

::Many people feel strongly about Sibe. He appears to have done things that, frankly, pissed off a lot of people in the furry fandom, and he has (to my knowledge) shown little to no remorse for those actions. He does not respect the copyright of artists, to the extent that he has actually been tried and convicted for distributing their artwork. His article at WikiFur reflects that.

::Ultimately, the exclusion of articles about people at their request is done out of mutual respect. But is this enough for us to justify denying his request? Is it better for the fandom for it to stay? Should we be willing to remove some information but not other information? What are your thoughts? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:53, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::We ought to respect anyone's removal request, even if personally we don't agree with it. Although I hope with Sibe's approval that an article more acceptable to all could be written. For instance, speculation on which conventions one has been banned from isn't appropriate for anyone's article. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 21:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, personal information protection is something we have not faulted at yet, even for people like [[Random]] and [[Squee rat.]] So, as long if he request it '''personally''' (A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one,) with a real e-mail, that verifies it originated from him ("Ross Redick",) would have to be respected. In other words, he himself, and not hiding behind a "rent-a-email," avatar, or other type of obfuscating device, must ask the administrators in the open.

::::If removed, his "deeds" information can be incorporated into appropriate articles without mentioning this individual. Just my 2 cents. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:13, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered. I was talking to him on AIM. And if you keep adding on to these rules of what Sibe can and cannot do, then he'll have no way of sending an email to anyone. Just revert the damn page, it is him for crying out loud.

:::::And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay? --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 21:22, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::Random's name was removed because it [[Talk:Random|had no particular relevance]] to the rest of the information presented in the article. Squee Rat has (as far as I know) left the fandom. Sibe remains within the fandom; whether his name is required is a valid topic of debate, and is one of the items of information that might reasonably be removed without removing the whole article. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:38, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::::"He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered....And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay?." If you referring to "(A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one)," that was a generic phrase, not directed at you... As in ("A request from Ross' third cousin's PT teacher's gardener's son in law's nephew's drunk girlfriend in his behalf is no a valid one,")... >.< [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::::This isnt really a talk about exclusion, this is just a way that GreenReaper can lock the article, and make it seem like hes not being unfair. However, he really is. I hope I get to meet him in person someday, I would love to talk with him personally about my displeasure with his actions. -Sibe

::::::::This discussion is a method for deciding how we handle this sort of situation now and in the future. Someone has to be the test case, just as a certain person other was for the removal of names in "unrelated" articles where they were not central to the article. I won't just keep removing articles about noted people in the community without assurance that this is, in fact, the thing that the WikiFur community wishes. So far it seems I was right to worry, as there's no obvious consensus - some people think you should be excluded, and some do not, and there has not been much of an attempt at reconciling those positions by pinning down a middle ground.

::::::::I (or another administrator) will unlock the article '''when''' there is agreement on what is to be done. If anyone wishes to propose an alternate version that would be better, than they are free to make a subpage that contains a modified copy of the article. If they favour the removal of such protection from other pages as a result then perhaps examples of the pages that would be placed on these unexcluded pages would be appropriate as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:No new rules for Ross Reddick are being applied for exclusion. [[Random]] and [[Squeerat]] did it by the book (personal email, with their name on it, that could be verified or traced back.) He just need to do as much, that's all. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:27, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::No new rules ''are'' being applied. I have '''always''' considered the appropriateness of any particular exclusion request (and I hope others have, too). In this case I am unsure of the consensus of the community, so I have opened this up for general discussion. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:34, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
:::Please just respect my request to remove the article.
-Sibe

:I should point out that several times I think the 'Sibe' article has been used as a bench mark for what's private and what's public. This discussion on [[Talk:Uncle Kage]] being one. People have to think where the line on public/private info has to be drawn on this wiki and this looks as though it may be where we have to decide. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I am still undecided on this article. I think however that the second paragraph is in serious need of a rewrite in the interim. It is not apppropriate to speculate on what conventions he ''may'' have been banned from. Only the facts should be present in the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:17, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I feel strongly that this article does not qualify for exclusion. Just as a famous person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies. Moreover, I feel that the exclusion of "famous" members of the fandom would be highly detrimental to the goals of WikiFur. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I second what Duncan said. Could be my own words. [[User:Somewolf|somewolf]] 15:08, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:By now, I don't even think it was even Sibe itself, at least asking "directly," to be removed. I still say "Aye." If we apply this standard because he is well "Know," I would vote revoke the protection on "SqueeRat," because, even though she is now old news, the person with that alias did cause a fair amount of commotion, akin to Sibe's actions today, during her time (Same goes for "Random,"...) In other words, why are we excluding these "famous" people's aliases, but we seem to want to throw the rules out for "Sibe"?. Just two cents more [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 18:42, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::Honestly? I don't much agree with excluding Squee Rat or Random, either, for much the same reasons. Now, that is not to say that they don't have a right to privacy - no real names need be included. I think we need to draw a line where a person's actions affect others; '''THAT''' is the information we need to retain. This provides context for where furry fandom is today. Why is alt.fan.furry regarded by many with scorn? Why do some agree with Burned Furs, but not with their methodology? I think that having the participation of these people included in the tapestry of the fandom's history is an important key to answering those questions. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:52, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::In other words, exclude ALL personal information, leave the Aliased person in. If that is possible (for ALL aliases,) then I would vote "Aye" on the matter. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 19:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I have trouble with excluding '''most''' people who have been exceedingly relevant or well-known among furries in their time, even if they did make personal requests. Reducing or removing some personal information is less of a dilemma for me. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 09:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::I believe Sibe is working on a rewrite that does not have the personal information that concerns him. Once we see what he wishes the article to look like, we can perhaps go from there. I would like this issue to be sorted soon - it's been a while. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:09, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::''9/10 September 2005: "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph "As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrent on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested, announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at Nexxus, and ends it by '''professing his love for his family''''', not. The last words in that post were "And now for some lulz:" followed by political satire --[[User:64.216.176.120|64.216.176.120]] 07:23, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The paragraph tries to describe the "gist" of the post, not trying to quote it verbatim. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:57, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Final Vote on the matter? ==

My two cents. The private information of Furs, Non-Furs, and/or Anti-Furs should be protected above all on this Wiki. If Ross Reddick (the real one), or any verified source, wishes such personal information to be taken out, we simply honor it,... '''but'''...

'''Aliases''' ("Fursonas," "Characters," etc) are another matter all together. Sibe, Random, SqueeRat... they have had the too much of an impact in the history of the fandom to be "sanitized" out. Suggestion? (IMHO only): Strip any personal information out, restore the information under these aliases back in their open entries (Even then, we should do the restoration with a "case by case" system.)

('''Notice''': This post '''does not''' represent the official view of [[WikiFur]] on this matter. This is a '''personal''' opinion piece.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:30, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Agreeing about personas ==

I'm going to have to add my input here.. We should be diligent about protecting furs who don't want their real-life information here, but at the same time, avatars and characters and such shouldn't receive as much protection, especially in situations where that avatar is "famous" in the fandom.

Since we are an encyclopedia, it is our duty to have articles on those who are "famous" within the fandom. Famous people in the fandom should be treated much like celebrities are in real-life; information about their characters and what they've done to become famous should be fair game on wikifur.

I do agree with removing Sibe's real name and location from his article if he wishes, though. Despite Sibe's antics, it's only fair to give him the same protection we give others. --[[User:Zorin|Zorin]] 16:33, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:I would disagree in this specific case. In situations such as Squee Rat or Random or Stukafox where their real names and locations are pretty much irrelevent I'm OK with leaving that information out. In the unique case of Sibe, though, his real name and location are very much a matter of public record (and court records, copies of which are linked from this article), I do not think that there is much point in omitting them.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:26, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Restraining orders ==

I think date of that order is incorrect. It says 13 September 2005, but [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/6fc21e1f63065875 this] suggests it was much closer to the convention. I'm altering it to 13 January 2006 instead.

I also find it odd that ''[[AAE]]'' managed to get an ex parte restraining order. My understanding of the law (and it is a very bad understanding) was you can only get those on a personal basis. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

:As I pointed out above in the restraining order section of the discussion page, every state has different laws and rules in regards to orders of protection. California is one of the states that allows corporations to get orders of protection. I believe Washington State does as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. I have changed things a bit to reflect that reality -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)
:I was the one who originally wrote "arrested", and I acknowledge that you seem to have better information than I. Looks like a good edit to me.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a minor revision to reflect that it's not just piracy related lawsuits that he's being served with, but also orders of protection, as well as the correct year for his original conviction. It will also make clear that the arrest was due to his warrant, not due to a new crime, as well as the circumstances behind the warrant being issued in the first place. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I am also clarifying the fact that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log does not indicate that the police have arrested him for a new crime. It is only a placeholder due to his previous conviction. Though I'm certainly not a neutral party, nothing is served by wild rumors, speculation, and incorrect information. Though Sibe may engage in that sort of behavior, I will not and will do my best to correct mistakes and bring more verifiable facts to light. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you very much for your edits to this article. I agree wholeheartedly that misinformation is worse than no information at all. The more accuracy we have here, the better!--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted overnight, and a new entry into the controversy section was entered under 14 February 2006. He did not delete it himself, due to him being in county custody.[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 20:17 14 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:I'm curious about the mention of Sibe being process-served while in custody. Although I've seen calls for people to do this, do we have any proof that this was actually done? --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 20:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::Email statements made by Mike Curtis of Shanda Fantasy Arts, Summer Jackson who is the attorney for AAE, and phone statement by Rabbit Valley to me. Unfortunately until I can get the "Return of Service" paperwork from them, I will have to trust them at their word. Summer Jackson is an attorney and bound by ethics code in California, and the other two have active lawsuits against him, and nothing is served by them lying about their own lawsuit. He also has to be served with a renewal of my own order. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 01:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, no problems. I confess I asked mainly out of idle curiosity, and I'm sorry if it came across as "put up or shut up" because I assure you that was not my intention. As we do strive to be semi-encyclopedic, it's always better if we have some online statement (forums, Usenet, etc.) that we can point to for reference, but some things, like the American legal system, just aren't geared for such things yet (booking files of Multnomah County notwithstanding :-) --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I am in the process of doing some massive editing of the controversy section, adding a bunch of dates, specifically, his criminal activities, when warrants were issued for his arrest in various different jurisdictions, such as Oregon, Washington, and Massachusetts, as well more details on his juvenile criminal record, which is public information in Washington State. In Washington, unless you go through a process of petitioning the court to expunge and remove the records from the court file, the juvenile records are still applicable as convictions. A lot of folk think that as soon as you turn 18 years of age, the records go away, which hasn't been the truth for almost 20 years in most US States. All information about his arrest and convictions are from public record. His moves between Portland and Bellevue and back are from his appearances at furry meets in Seattle and Portland areas as a resident of those areas. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 00:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-02-15T23:51:03Z

Gray Coyote: /* Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath */

== Attention, Regarding link to Criminal record ==
The link has been approved as allowed information in regards all privacy laws, public information laws and terms of services for all websites involved. Please see [[User_talk:Nidonocu#Personal_contact_information.3F]] for the discussion regarding this. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 00:06, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Numerous edits have been made to this page since the annoucement of WikiFur. These edits removed information from the page, and so were reverted. When I made the page, I tried to stick to the facts. So far, there has been no debate over them, but there is debate about whether or not they set Sibe in a fair light. There is also debate over whether his real name should be on this page.

Here is a log of a chat on the Wikicities debating this topic, mostly between myself, [[User:Offline|Offline]], and [[User:Markus|Markus]]:

<div style="font-size:8pt; line-height: 9pt; white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana"><nowiki>
(GreenReaper): Anyway, questions?
(Offline): I do have a question. now this is not ment to cause harm in anyway. But why is the option to edit the sibe entry not there anymore?
(Offline): It really looks as if it's violating the ToS. and whit it being so one-sided, People can't even edit it to add good things.
(GreenReaper): I removed the option to edit the sibe article because it had been the target of numerous deletions and alterations, both by people who seemed to support him and seemed not to. None of them was particularly factual or neutral
(Offline): Ahhh.
(GreenReaper): Well, see http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=678&oldid=621
(Offline): still however, it really makes him out to be a really bad guy. Now, I'm not a huge supporter of sibe, or am i even a supporter of the fandom. but it does include his real name.
(Offline): And since it does include his real name, it's more of an attack on his actual person rather than his made up character.
(GreenReaper): So are you saying that the information on there is incorrect? I don't know him personally, but I looked around, and from what I could see, he really *was* a bad guy.
(GreenReaper): I have tried to include information that I found that puts him in a more positive light, like the Conifur 2004 visit
(GreenReaper): but frankly, the balance of evidence shows that he has on numerous occasions caused trouble to many people in the furry fandom.
(GreenReaper): If you have evidence showing that he is, in fact, the savior of mankind, I invite you to post it on the discussion page (as I think I mentioned in user talk)
(GreenReaper): if it checks out as a factual source, it goes in.
(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not. I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated. the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.
* GreenReaper nods.
(Offline): if a link happens to have his real name in it, then whatever. however, the name "Ross Reddick" should be removed from the top of the page there.
(GreenReaper): I am for the separation of real life and the furry fandom where desired, in most circumstances. However in this particular case there is a reason that overrides that, and that reason is that he has demonstrably been a danger to at least one person, caused trouble to many, and may be in the future.
(GreenReaper): Putting the name means it's less likely he can just change his nickname and cause trouble.
(Offline): I know there are many furrys out there who would not like to have their real name posted. I figure it's more respect than anything else. they would rather be known as their "character". Am I right?
(GreenReaper): For example, if he registers at AC 2006 under the name "niceguy", who's to know?
(GreenReaper): You're right. It's in the Category:People page. I wrote it myself. In this case, I feel there is a demonstrable need for his real name to be there.
(Offline): So it is one sided then?
(GreenReaper): People should not be able to escape their actions of such severity as demonstrated by the links currently there just by changing a nickname. To allow that is a problem.
(Offline): Some furs can have the respect of not getting their real name posted. but others due to past actions do not get the same respect.
(GreenReaper): Hmm? It has all the sides I found. Again, if there is a different side, please tell me of it.
(GreenReaper): With all due respect, some furs did not assualt other furs and then steal their cars. :-)
(Offline): that may be true. look at it from his side though.
(GreenReaper): Well, what I'd do if I were him would be to ensure that good things about me got into there, so it *didn't* make me look like someone not to associate with
(GreenReaper): and hopefully, that's the effect it will have. I'm not *that* hopeful, but I'm an optimist.
(GreenReaper): the fact that he managed to attend a convention in 2004 without actually being thrown out is a start on that.
(Offline): I'm sorry. I still think it's wrong to do this to one guy just because he is a fuck-up.
(GreenReaper): The lyrics "you do it to yourself, you do, you and no-one else" come to mind . . . but, if you think that, then do place that discussion on the user talk page.
(GreenReaper): In fact, I could place this entire log on there, if you think it would encourage discussion.
(GreenReaper): If the balance of opinion of people who have contributed well to this wiki is that his real name should be removed, then I will.
(Offline): Thats fine with me.
(Offline): However, I don't see it helping out much since this is Sibe were talking about.
(GreenReaper): Well, yes . . . and that is the point. :-)
(Offline): And I know that the vast majority of the community dislikes this guy very much.
(Offline): But even though you posted the Name rule there, you feel it's right to break it as *you?* see fit.
(GreenReaper): Yes, pretty much.
(GreenReaper): the "probably not a good idea" bit means it's a guideline
(GreenReaper): but even if I'd said it as an absolute rule at the time, I'd feel OK about breaking it if I thought it was right.
(Offline): There are alot of furs out there that I don't like, and there are furs I do like. Either way, no matter if there bad or good, I would give them the respect of keeping their name off this site.
(GreenReaper): Then I thank you. I would again say that in general, it is an excellent guideline to follow. The trouble is where people's online personas and their real life characters have significant overlap.
(GreenReaper): When Sibe tries to go to a convention to which he is banned, one way to at least try to prevent that is to stop people registering using ID with the name Ross Reddick.
(Offline): However, I'm quite sure that all the furry conventions know who this guy is. He does appear to be a widly known furry.
(Offline): I don't think that posting his real name is going to affect the furry conventions.
(Offline): At least, not anymore.
(Ruby_M): Hmm.
*** Ruby_M is now known as Mark_McCloud
(GreenReaper): Probably not. Let's consider the situation where someone new to the fandom comes around. Maybe they got involved with Sibe, only they don't know that since he uses a nickname - but he can't avoid being known as Ross in real life. Should they be able to find his past?
(GreenReaper): *uses a different nickname
(GreenReaper): I would say that, for their safety, they should.
(GreenReaper): If they decide to continue associating with him, it's their call.
(Mark_McCloud): Nice ta see ya Offie.
(GreenReaper): My main concern is that the information on that page is a fair representation. If it is that, then my conscience is clear. If it is not, that needs fixing.
(GreenReaper): The edits made previously did not offer new information that showed him in a better (or worse) light than the current information, and they removed existing information, so they were reverted, and as that continued, I decided to protect the page.
(Mark_McCloud): I myself had to defend a page that has been attacted a few times. The main page.
(Mark_McCloud): Some people..
(Offline): If a new furry were to join the fandom, I think it would be best if they made friends on their own, and not told how they should and shouldn't be friends with.
(Mark_McCloud): The page for Sibe is as neutral as can be. Saying he "smoked a bowl" is not fact in the way it was expressed, but a speculation or guess..
(Mark_McCloud): in any case.. I need to sleep.. I'll be checking for troll edits later after I get sleep.
* Mark_McCloud flopps and snores.
(JasonR): Really, His real name is only one click away from the Sibe page anyway (in the criminal record).
(Offline): I'm only asking that his real name be removed form the top of the page out of respect. Sure, he might not be the greatest person around, but I still feel it's wrong
(GreenReaper): Fair enough. That is your opinon, as the above is mine. Such opinions should be placed on the user talk page, where they can be debated. But consider: if most of those in the furry fandom have a bad opinion of him, any new member of the fandom would be quite likely to have the same reaction on hearing what he has done, and continued to do. And I think they should.
(Offline): Alright then. Thank you for listning to what I had to say.
(GreenReaper): I have respect for most people. But respect itself is a measure of opinion. The level of respect drops when the actions are not commesurate with that. Or, more simply: He's done a lot of bad things. The respect I feel I and others owe him as a human being is outweighed by them.
(GreenReaper): Things like "please don't come to a convention when you're not wanted" are based on mutual. If it is not returned, then eventually people stop giving it.
(GreenReaper): *based on mutual respect
(GreenReaper): I shall post this log on the talk page. I shall also post a note directing users there so that they may debate the protection.
(Offline): Thats cool. Thank you for at least considering it and opening it up for disscusion.
(GreenReaper): That is what a wiki is all about. :-)
</nowiki></div>

If you are a visitor to this page, your opinion on whether or not it is appropriate for Sibe's real name to be on the page would be welcome below. Also, any further reliable sources of information that you have could be useful. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:46, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== "Sold" pirated art? ==

I know that he's distributed and torrented various copyrighted works, such as Genus Male and a bunch of art sites such as "SexyFur," but where's the proof that he's actually ''sold'' the pirated artwork? I've never heard of that up until now.

Granted I hope this proof doesn't come from word-of-mouth. It seems that whenever Sibe is discussed, McCarthyism suddenly goes into full-effect and people try to one-up each other on what they've heard from the grapevine about $$DA EVIL HUSKEE$$. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:That's fair enough. I can't immediately see evidence for this in the sources, and none were marked as showng that, so I've changed it to "distributing" rather than "offering for sale". Thanks for helping make this article better! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:55, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::Oh it's no problem. Is there any chance of also getting a commentary on the scapegoating that occurs due to his infamy? Such as if anyone attacks a channel anywhere, or if something happens to anything furry related, the immidiate response is "it was Sibe!"? Not trying to portray him in a better light, because hey, the record's there (at least at the bottom of the page under "criminal record"), but just trying to add more information as to what happens with this dude. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:::Sure, if you can provide some evidence of it . . . for example, if there are newsgroup or forum posts of it occurring. I've not seen it myself, so I don't know.

:::Of course, you should be make sure that it's not '''really''' Sibe behind it all. He can be tricksy, that husky. Like a fox, only grayer! ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:24, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Oh of course. I know of one specifically that happened on FurNet in a channel called #dragonyiff. A bunch of furries (and some Something Awful goons, I think) with the idea to just flood a channel came in, then stopped when the channel was set to "mute." After the flood stopped, one of the few responses was that it was Sibe's doing. That's just one example. I'm not quite sure if it's incredibly apparent, though, but I'll be sure to try and remember more situations that've happened. [[User:Verix|Verix]] 03:45, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::: I never sold pirated art. Thats a blatent lie.

:::::: Sibe bragged about his Art CDs a few years ago. He tried to tease, claiming he stole my Art to make money. I have no further proofs he truely did sell CDs. Maybe you could ask "Rabbit Valley", they certainly know the information. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 16:48, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

== Hard Evidence ==

Since people were looking for factual information regarding Sibe, I have provided the admins of this site with the actual photocopy scans (in PDF form) of Sibe's criminal record and other related litigation records.

On a note for some of the more privacy minded people who have commented on this disccussion. This information is freely available through the [[Wikipedia:Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)|Freedom of Information Act of 1966]] and through the Privacy Act of 1974. Posting said information in a public forum or other press type format, such as this site, as a part of the [[Sibe]] article to present real and hard evidence of this person in question, is an activity which is specifically protected by the Constitution's first amendment and these two acts. Contrary to what some people have mentioned above, the posting of such information can not be legally constituted as slander because the name "Sibe" is considered a criminal alias for the purposes of identifying Mr. Ross Reddick, and because all information pertaining to such activities within his criminal record is factual. Slander must include some element of falsehood which is designed to ruin a person. Facts and truth are not slander no matter how unflattering they are. Additionally, since this information is directly pertinent to the furry community, it would be unfair in the interests of truth and neutrality to withhold or censor it. The facts should be allowed to speak for themselves, if they paint the person in a bad light then it falls upon the person in question to rectify their own actions.

Finally, if you are interested in more information about Mr. Reddick, then I suggest contacting the FBI and requesting a copy of his FBI file (Yes, one exists and is rather lengthy); contacting one of the groups whom is in currently in litigation with him, like [[Rabbit Valley Press]] or [[FurNation Press]]; or contacting the state/county that said litigation is under teh jurisdiction of.

--[[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 03:59, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Huh? Slander? Who mentioned anything about slander? Or am I just being lazy and not seeing mentions of it in that huge chatlog above or in the discussion I had with Green? -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:00, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Slander is an inference to what [[User:Offline|Offline]] was referring to with regards to the use of [[Sibe]]'s real name.

(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not.
I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that
it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated.
the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since
furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect
their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.

* Slander ≠ Libel. Sillies.

For the purposes of this discussion, what the law has to say about the name "Sibe" is that it's not a fictional character but a criminal alias of a real person. The use of his real name might be considered slanderous or an invasion of privacy if not for the FOIA. -- [[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 06:25, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Ahh. Okay, I figured it was my ADD. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, just an FYI after thought clarification on what I wrote as well: From the point of view of the law, there is a marked difference between an '''''Alias''''', and a '''''Fictional Name'''''. A fictional name is only used to refer to something which does not exist. However, a fictional name ceases being so when it is used to refer to a real person. This name association turns it into an alias, and aliases are '''not''' granted any legal right to privacy. The rationalle for placing aliases on public record and offering them no protection of privacy is to prevent the use of false or alternative names to commit acts of fraud. It is for this the very reason that a legal name change requires a court hearing in most states and one must swear under oath in front of a judge that the name change is not to defraud anyone or to commit future acts of fraud. If aliases were not covered like this, it would present an exploitable loop hole to commit fraud. Additionally, according to the law, the real world does not cease to exist just because someone's actions occur in some intangible virtual space such as IRC or Second Life. The person in the real world sitting behind the computer can be and often is held legally accountable for their actions, wether they be under a "fictional character name" or their real name. So, in closing, regardless of one's opinion on this, whether in agreement or not, it is important to understand that this precident is the one which is currently upheld within the United States judicial system. That's something to chew on and consider as a whole with regard to the whole 'name' rule for this site.

:I should point out that various furs do have valid, legitimate court orders of protection against Mr. Reddick. These furs do go to conventions, and the stipulations of several of their protection orders include "if Mr. Reddick is at the same location as the plaintiff, Mr. Reddick must leave."

: I should also point out (Sibe) that "various" furs do not have valid, legitimate anti-harassment orders against Mr. Reddick. The only one who does is Grey Fox Of Winter , AKA Loki Grey Coyote, aka Lonnie Wilson. That is the only "protection order" that has ever been served my person on a furrys behalf. The way Lonnie got this order was I emailed him, he responded with do not contact me anymore. Then I replied to that with "Why are you so mean?" He used that email discussion as grounds to get his anti-harassment order (less binding then a restraining order). The order will expire Feburary 2006. -Sibe

There's also an interesting interstate aspect of things: if a court order of protection is violated across or while across state lines, it carries 5+ years of jail time in a federal prison, minimum sentence.

Thus, if Mr. Reddick shows his face at a convention that I know one of these furs is at, I will be calling the FBI, and we'll be rid of him for a while.

: Winged

::Do you have links to scans of these court orders, or physical copies of them? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:16, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: The order of protection that was gotten by myself against Ross Reddick was served by publication, and became effective on April 13th, 2005, for a period of one year. It was then personally served on Mr. Reddick on May 8th, 2005 by Officer K. Boyd of the Tukwila Police Department at Southcenter Mall in Washington State. It is actually expiring on April 13th, 2006. The service by publication was done due to his evasion of process service. The reason for service by publication is not to have him arrested from his lack of knowledge from the order, it is to keep the petitioner from having to go to court multiple times to get the temporary ex-parte order renewed over and over again due to the respondant's evasive conduct.

:::Per [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.14.115 RCW 10.14.115], if he had contacted me or otherwise violated the order between April 13th and May 8th of 2005, he would not have been in violation of the order, unless he stated that he was an avid reader of legal notices in the King County Journal (which was the newspaper of legal notice record in the county). After that point, if he violated the terms, he is subject to arrest and contempt of court citation by the district court up here.

:::Anti-Harassment Orders are no less "binding" on the respondent than other forms of protection orders, it's just that violations of a Washington State anti-harassment order is a gross misdemeanor rather than a felony, as far as violations in the state of Washington goes. It could be felony level as far as other states depending on their laws of recognition of such orders from other states and how they translate into their matrix of orders of protection and punishments for violations of such, and federal law also has it's hand in it as well (going across state lines to violate orders of protection is a federal felony offense).

:::States have various different kinds of names for orders of protection, and different punishment levels for violations of such. Oregon's equivalent to Washington State's Anti-Harassment Orders are called "Stalking Protection Orders". The terms "Restraining Order" and "Order of Protection" should be assumed to be general terms encompassing the whole spectrum of such kinds of orders, because every state is different, and as was proven by Further Confusion, corporations can get orders of protection as well against individuals as well, at least in California. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Revert of questionable content ==

I reverted out the following edit to the History section, 20 March 2002:
:''Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown portland to blow the cash at a gay strip club called the Silverado. After blowing the money at the bar, getting drunk and buying drinks for everyone in the bar he drove to Camas, Washington with one of the strippers in the bar. At approximately 7a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges).''
It sounds questionable, it certainly isn't NPOV, and even if it's true, it strikes me as inflammatory and irrelevant detail, something I don't think WikiFur wants to get into. Fell free to discuss and decide if it should be restored.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 17:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:While I disagree in part with how the information was ''presented'', I do believe it is more than plausible given his other actions. If we're describing Sibe's character here, how he spent the money is relevant. I would feel uncomfortable about naming the dancer who went with him, but fortunately this did not come up. The terms of the writing were not NPOV - I have adjusted this. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:43, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

===Questionable links===
An Anonymous user has added information to the article under history and external links which leads to a site that, according to the "new" information in the article, contains a .torrent file which in itself allows a Bit Torrent user to download about 9GB of copyrighted material like that from Sexyfur among other sites. The same changes in the article suggest that Sibe had been banned from LJ because he refused to remove that link from his journal. If that much is true and the supporting evidence is correct, then it may be wise to remove the potentially illegal link(s) from the page to avoid any potential legal trouble. At this time, I have done so, though leaving the "written" email links in place. I would personally think that linking to a page that itself links to a potentially illegal pirated collection of pictures is an unsafe thing to do on this wiki. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Edit: On second thought, after reading the emails themselves, I find them a little dubious. They hold the real names and email addresses as well as phone numbers of a certain person, and if they are real, the people in question probably wouldn't want to be flooded with calls from heaven only knows how many people. The links so far are found on the thepiratebay website and are called "rabbit_mail", "rabbit_resp", and "rabbit_mail2" respectively and in order. I find them dubious though and probably the entire tracker system of the site may reflect its name, I won't care either way. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I'm unsure about this myself. I don't doubt that the emails are valid - actually I think they show [[Rabbit Valley]] in a fairly good light, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were fake.

:I did like the reference to [[PafCon]]:
Hope to see you at the annually furry-convention in Las Vegas! Our whole staff
will be going as the cast from the movie "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey"
:I don't think it's worth worrying about too much, though. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:19, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Exclusion ==

Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Please regard this as the official request for exclusion. [[User:Sibe|Sibe]]

:Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. A written request on a Wikifurry page without proper verification is not a valid form of request. As your IP indicates prior vandalism of Wikifurry entries, we have no way to confirm that you are "Ross H. Reddick," (Sibe.) Please refer to the first suggestion for proper exclusion. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:16, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::"Negative /r/ removal" is not a valid address. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:21, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I've temporarily protected the entry until the exclusion request is verified as actually being from Sibe by an [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]. Play by the rules, and we'll be happy to accomodate your request. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 20:12, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::I've been on the Wiki long enough and I consider myself to be friends with Greenreaper. I know I'm not an administrator, but I can verify that's Sibe. Trust me? :/ --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 20:51, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::This is a removal request from Sibe. The question is, do we accept it?

::[[WikiFur:Personal information]] has always had an important cavaet - ''at the discretion of the WikiFur administration''. To be blunt, out of all articles on WikiFur, this is the one I was thinking of most when I wrote that.

::Many people feel strongly about Sibe. He appears to have done things that, frankly, pissed off a lot of people in the furry fandom, and he has (to my knowledge) shown little to no remorse for those actions. He does not respect the copyright of artists, to the extent that he has actually been tried and convicted for distributing their artwork. His article at WikiFur reflects that.

::Ultimately, the exclusion of articles about people at their request is done out of mutual respect. But is this enough for us to justify denying his request? Is it better for the fandom for it to stay? Should we be willing to remove some information but not other information? What are your thoughts? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:53, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::We ought to respect anyone's removal request, even if personally we don't agree with it. Although I hope with Sibe's approval that an article more acceptable to all could be written. For instance, speculation on which conventions one has been banned from isn't appropriate for anyone's article. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 21:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, personal information protection is something we have not faulted at yet, even for people like [[Random]] and [[Squee rat.]] So, as long if he request it '''personally''' (A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one,) with a real e-mail, that verifies it originated from him ("Ross Redick",) would have to be respected. In other words, he himself, and not hiding behind a "rent-a-email," avatar, or other type of obfuscating device, must ask the administrators in the open.

::::If removed, his "deeds" information can be incorporated into appropriate articles without mentioning this individual. Just my 2 cents. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:13, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered. I was talking to him on AIM. And if you keep adding on to these rules of what Sibe can and cannot do, then he'll have no way of sending an email to anyone. Just revert the damn page, it is him for crying out loud.

:::::And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay? --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 21:22, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::Random's name was removed because it [[Talk:Random|had no particular relevance]] to the rest of the information presented in the article. Squee Rat has (as far as I know) left the fandom. Sibe remains within the fandom; whether his name is required is a valid topic of debate, and is one of the items of information that might reasonably be removed without removing the whole article. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:38, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::::"He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered....And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay?." If you referring to "(A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one)," that was a generic phrase, not directed at you... As in ("A request from Ross' third cousin's PT teacher's gardener's son in law's nephew's drunk girlfriend in his behalf is no a valid one,")... >.< [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::::This isnt really a talk about exclusion, this is just a way that GreenReaper can lock the article, and make it seem like hes not being unfair. However, he really is. I hope I get to meet him in person someday, I would love to talk with him personally about my displeasure with his actions. -Sibe

::::::::This discussion is a method for deciding how we handle this sort of situation now and in the future. Someone has to be the test case, just as a certain person other was for the removal of names in "unrelated" articles where they were not central to the article. I won't just keep removing articles about noted people in the community without assurance that this is, in fact, the thing that the WikiFur community wishes. So far it seems I was right to worry, as there's no obvious consensus - some people think you should be excluded, and some do not, and there has not been much of an attempt at reconciling those positions by pinning down a middle ground.

::::::::I (or another administrator) will unlock the article '''when''' there is agreement on what is to be done. If anyone wishes to propose an alternate version that would be better, than they are free to make a subpage that contains a modified copy of the article. If they favour the removal of such protection from other pages as a result then perhaps examples of the pages that would be placed on these unexcluded pages would be appropriate as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:No new rules for Ross Reddick are being applied for exclusion. [[Random]] and [[Squeerat]] did it by the book (personal email, with their name on it, that could be verified or traced back.) He just need to do as much, that's all. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:27, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::No new rules ''are'' being applied. I have '''always''' considered the appropriateness of any particular exclusion request (and I hope others have, too). In this case I am unsure of the consensus of the community, so I have opened this up for general discussion. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:34, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
:::Please just respect my request to remove the article.
-Sibe

:I should point out that several times I think the 'Sibe' article has been used as a bench mark for what's private and what's public. This discussion on [[Talk:Uncle Kage]] being one. People have to think where the line on public/private info has to be drawn on this wiki and this looks as though it may be where we have to decide. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I am still undecided on this article. I think however that the second paragraph is in serious need of a rewrite in the interim. It is not apppropriate to speculate on what conventions he ''may'' have been banned from. Only the facts should be present in the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:17, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I feel strongly that this article does not qualify for exclusion. Just as a famous person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies. Moreover, I feel that the exclusion of "famous" members of the fandom would be highly detrimental to the goals of WikiFur. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I second what Duncan said. Could be my own words. [[User:Somewolf|somewolf]] 15:08, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:By now, I don't even think it was even Sibe itself, at least asking "directly," to be removed. I still say "Aye." If we apply this standard because he is well "Know," I would vote revoke the protection on "SqueeRat," because, even though she is now old news, the person with that alias did cause a fair amount of commotion, akin to Sibe's actions today, during her time (Same goes for "Random,"...) In other words, why are we excluding these "famous" people's aliases, but we seem to want to throw the rules out for "Sibe"?. Just two cents more [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 18:42, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::Honestly? I don't much agree with excluding Squee Rat or Random, either, for much the same reasons. Now, that is not to say that they don't have a right to privacy - no real names need be included. I think we need to draw a line where a person's actions affect others; '''THAT''' is the information we need to retain. This provides context for where furry fandom is today. Why is alt.fan.furry regarded by many with scorn? Why do some agree with Burned Furs, but not with their methodology? I think that having the participation of these people included in the tapestry of the fandom's history is an important key to answering those questions. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:52, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::In other words, exclude ALL personal information, leave the Aliased person in. If that is possible (for ALL aliases,) then I would vote "Aye" on the matter. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 19:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I have trouble with excluding '''most''' people who have been exceedingly relevant or well-known among furries in their time, even if they did make personal requests. Reducing or removing some personal information is less of a dilemma for me. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 09:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::I believe Sibe is working on a rewrite that does not have the personal information that concerns him. Once we see what he wishes the article to look like, we can perhaps go from there. I would like this issue to be sorted soon - it's been a while. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:09, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::''9/10 September 2005: "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph "As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrent on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested, announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at Nexxus, and ends it by '''professing his love for his family''''', not. The last words in that post were "And now for some lulz:" followed by political satire --[[User:64.216.176.120|64.216.176.120]] 07:23, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The paragraph tries to describe the "gist" of the post, not trying to quote it verbatim. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:57, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Final Vote on the matter? ==

My two cents. The private information of Furs, Non-Furs, and/or Anti-Furs should be protected above all on this Wiki. If Ross Reddick (the real one), or any verified source, wishes such personal information to be taken out, we simply honor it,... '''but'''...

'''Aliases''' ("Fursonas," "Characters," etc) are another matter all together. Sibe, Random, SqueeRat... they have had the too much of an impact in the history of the fandom to be "sanitized" out. Suggestion? (IMHO only): Strip any personal information out, restore the information under these aliases back in their open entries (Even then, we should do the restoration with a "case by case" system.)

('''Notice''': This post '''does not''' represent the official view of [[WikiFur]] on this matter. This is a '''personal''' opinion piece.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:30, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Agreeing about personas ==

I'm going to have to add my input here.. We should be diligent about protecting furs who don't want their real-life information here, but at the same time, avatars and characters and such shouldn't receive as much protection, especially in situations where that avatar is "famous" in the fandom.

Since we are an encyclopedia, it is our duty to have articles on those who are "famous" within the fandom. Famous people in the fandom should be treated much like celebrities are in real-life; information about their characters and what they've done to become famous should be fair game on wikifur.

I do agree with removing Sibe's real name and location from his article if he wishes, though. Despite Sibe's antics, it's only fair to give him the same protection we give others. --[[User:Zorin|Zorin]] 16:33, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:I would disagree in this specific case. In situations such as Squee Rat or Random or Stukafox where their real names and locations are pretty much irrelevent I'm OK with leaving that information out. In the unique case of Sibe, though, his real name and location are very much a matter of public record (and court records, copies of which are linked from this article), I do not think that there is much point in omitting them.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:26, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Restraining orders ==

I think date of that order is incorrect. It says 13 September 2005, but [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/6fc21e1f63065875 this] suggests it was much closer to the convention. I'm altering it to 13 January 2006 instead.

I also find it odd that ''[[AAE]]'' managed to get an ex parte restraining order. My understanding of the law (and it is a very bad understanding) was you can only get those on a personal basis. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

:As I pointed out above in the restraining order section of the discussion page, every state has different laws and rules in regards to orders of protection. California is one of the states that allows corporations to get orders of protection. I believe Washington State does as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Past Criminal Activities, 2006 Arrest and aftermath ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. I have changed things a bit to reflect that reality -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)
:I was the one who originally wrote "arrested", and I acknowledge that you seem to have better information than I. Looks like a good edit to me.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a minor revision to reflect that it's not just piracy related lawsuits that he's being served with, but also orders of protection, as well as the correct year for his original conviction. It will also make clear that the arrest was due to his warrant, not due to a new crime, as well as the circumstances behind the warrant being issued in the first place. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I am also clarifying the fact that the "DV-Coercion" notation in the booking log does not indicate that the police have arrested him for a new crime. It is only a placeholder due to his previous conviction. Though I'm certainly not a neutral party, nothing is served by wild rumors, speculation, and incorrect information. Though Sibe may engage in that sort of behavior, I will not and will do my best to correct mistakes and bring more verifiable facts to light. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 09:46, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you very much for your edits to this article. I agree wholeheartedly that misinformation is worse than no information at all. The more accuracy we have here, the better!--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 01:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sibe's Greatest Journal was deleted overnight, and a new entry into the controversy section was entered under 14 February 2006. He did not delete it himself, due to him being in county custody.[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 20:17 14 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:I'm curious about the mention of Sibe being process-served while in custody. Although I've seen calls for people to do this, do we have any proof that this was actually done? --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 20:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::Email statements made by Mike Curtis of Shanda Fantasy Arts, Summer Jackson who is the attorney for AAE, and phone statement by Rabbit Valley to me. Unfortunately until I can get the "Return of Service" paperwork from them, I will have to trust them at their word. Summer Jackson is an attorney and bound by ethics code in California, and the other two have active lawsuits against him, and nothing is served by them lying about their own lawsuit. He also has to be served with a renewal of my own order. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 01:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, no problems. I confess I asked mainly out of idle curiosity, and I'm sorry if it came across as "put up or shut up" because I assure you that was not my intention. As we do strive to be semi-encyclopedic, it's always better if we have some online statement (forums, Usenet, etc.) that we can point to for reference, but some things, like the American legal system, just aren't geared for such things yet (booking files of Multnomah County notwithstanding :-) --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I am in the process of doing some massive editing of the controversy section, adding a bunch of dates, specifically, his criminal activities, when warrants were issued for his arrest in various different jurisdictions, such as Oregon, Washington, and Massachusetts, as well more details on his juvenile criminal record, which is public information in Washington State. In Washington, unless you go through a process of petitioning the court to expunge and remove the records from the court file, the juvenile records are still applicable as convictions. A lot of folk think that as soon as you turn 18 years of age, the records go away, which hasn't been the truth for almost 20 years in most US States. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 00:00, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

2006-02-14T20:15:29Z

Gray Coyote: /* Controversy */

Evil Sibe

2006-02-12T10:16:21Z

Gray Coyote: /* Controversy */

2006-02-12T01:48:05Z

Gray Coyote: /* 2006 Arrest */

== Attention, Regarding link to Criminal record ==
The link has been approved as allowed information in regards all privacy laws, public information laws and terms of services for all websites involved. Please see [[User_talk:Nidonocu#Personal_contact_information.3F]] for the discussion regarding this. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 00:06, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Numerous edits have been made to this page since the annoucement of WikiFur. These edits removed information from the page, and so were reverted. When I made the page, I tried to stick to the facts. So far, there has been no debate over them, but there is debate about whether or not they set Sibe in a fair light. There is also debate over whether his real name should be on this page.

Here is a log of a chat on the Wikicities debating this topic, mostly between myself, [[User:Offline|Offline]], and [[User:Markus|Markus]]:

<div style="font-size:8pt; line-height: 9pt; white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana"><nowiki>
(GreenReaper): Anyway, questions?
(Offline): I do have a question. now this is not ment to cause harm in anyway. But why is the option to edit the sibe entry not there anymore?
(Offline): It really looks as if it's violating the ToS. and whit it being so one-sided, People can't even edit it to add good things.
(GreenReaper): I removed the option to edit the sibe article because it had been the target of numerous deletions and alterations, both by people who seemed to support him and seemed not to. None of them was particularly factual or neutral
(Offline): Ahhh.
(GreenReaper): Well, see http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=678&oldid=621
(Offline): still however, it really makes him out to be a really bad guy. Now, I'm not a huge supporter of sibe, or am i even a supporter of the fandom. but it does include his real name.
(Offline): And since it does include his real name, it's more of an attack on his actual person rather than his made up character.
(GreenReaper): So are you saying that the information on there is incorrect? I don't know him personally, but I looked around, and from what I could see, he really *was* a bad guy.
(GreenReaper): I have tried to include information that I found that puts him in a more positive light, like the Conifur 2004 visit
(GreenReaper): but frankly, the balance of evidence shows that he has on numerous occasions caused trouble to many people in the furry fandom.
(GreenReaper): If you have evidence showing that he is, in fact, the savior of mankind, I invite you to post it on the discussion page (as I think I mentioned in user talk)
(GreenReaper): if it checks out as a factual source, it goes in.
(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not. I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated. the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.
* GreenReaper nods.
(Offline): if a link happens to have his real name in it, then whatever. however, the name "Ross Reddick" should be removed from the top of the page there.
(GreenReaper): I am for the separation of real life and the furry fandom where desired, in most circumstances. However in this particular case there is a reason that overrides that, and that reason is that he has demonstrably been a danger to at least one person, caused trouble to many, and may be in the future.
(GreenReaper): Putting the name means it's less likely he can just change his nickname and cause trouble.
(Offline): I know there are many furrys out there who would not like to have their real name posted. I figure it's more respect than anything else. they would rather be known as their "character". Am I right?
(GreenReaper): For example, if he registers at AC 2006 under the name "niceguy", who's to know?
(GreenReaper): You're right. It's in the Category:People page. I wrote it myself. In this case, I feel there is a demonstrable need for his real name to be there.
(Offline): So it is one sided then?
(GreenReaper): People should not be able to escape their actions of such severity as demonstrated by the links currently there just by changing a nickname. To allow that is a problem.
(Offline): Some furs can have the respect of not getting their real name posted. but others due to past actions do not get the same respect.
(GreenReaper): Hmm? It has all the sides I found. Again, if there is a different side, please tell me of it.
(GreenReaper): With all due respect, some furs did not assualt other furs and then steal their cars. :-)
(Offline): that may be true. look at it from his side though.
(GreenReaper): Well, what I'd do if I were him would be to ensure that good things about me got into there, so it *didn't* make me look like someone not to associate with
(GreenReaper): and hopefully, that's the effect it will have. I'm not *that* hopeful, but I'm an optimist.
(GreenReaper): the fact that he managed to attend a convention in 2004 without actually being thrown out is a start on that.
(Offline): I'm sorry. I still think it's wrong to do this to one guy just because he is a fuck-up.
(GreenReaper): The lyrics "you do it to yourself, you do, you and no-one else" come to mind . . . but, if you think that, then do place that discussion on the user talk page.
(GreenReaper): In fact, I could place this entire log on there, if you think it would encourage discussion.
(GreenReaper): If the balance of opinion of people who have contributed well to this wiki is that his real name should be removed, then I will.
(Offline): Thats fine with me.
(Offline): However, I don't see it helping out much since this is Sibe were talking about.
(GreenReaper): Well, yes . . . and that is the point. :-)
(Offline): And I know that the vast majority of the community dislikes this guy very much.
(Offline): But even though you posted the Name rule there, you feel it's right to break it as *you?* see fit.
(GreenReaper): Yes, pretty much.
(GreenReaper): the "probably not a good idea" bit means it's a guideline
(GreenReaper): but even if I'd said it as an absolute rule at the time, I'd feel OK about breaking it if I thought it was right.
(Offline): There are alot of furs out there that I don't like, and there are furs I do like. Either way, no matter if there bad or good, I would give them the respect of keeping their name off this site.
(GreenReaper): Then I thank you. I would again say that in general, it is an excellent guideline to follow. The trouble is where people's online personas and their real life characters have significant overlap.
(GreenReaper): When Sibe tries to go to a convention to which he is banned, one way to at least try to prevent that is to stop people registering using ID with the name Ross Reddick.
(Offline): However, I'm quite sure that all the furry conventions know who this guy is. He does appear to be a widly known furry.
(Offline): I don't think that posting his real name is going to affect the furry conventions.
(Offline): At least, not anymore.
(Ruby_M): Hmm.
*** Ruby_M is now known as Mark_McCloud
(GreenReaper): Probably not. Let's consider the situation where someone new to the fandom comes around. Maybe they got involved with Sibe, only they don't know that since he uses a nickname - but he can't avoid being known as Ross in real life. Should they be able to find his past?
(GreenReaper): *uses a different nickname
(GreenReaper): I would say that, for their safety, they should.
(GreenReaper): If they decide to continue associating with him, it's their call.
(Mark_McCloud): Nice ta see ya Offie.
(GreenReaper): My main concern is that the information on that page is a fair representation. If it is that, then my conscience is clear. If it is not, that needs fixing.
(GreenReaper): The edits made previously did not offer new information that showed him in a better (or worse) light than the current information, and they removed existing information, so they were reverted, and as that continued, I decided to protect the page.
(Mark_McCloud): I myself had to defend a page that has been attacted a few times. The main page.
(Mark_McCloud): Some people..
(Offline): If a new furry were to join the fandom, I think it would be best if they made friends on their own, and not told how they should and shouldn't be friends with.
(Mark_McCloud): The page for Sibe is as neutral as can be. Saying he "smoked a bowl" is not fact in the way it was expressed, but a speculation or guess..
(Mark_McCloud): in any case.. I need to sleep.. I'll be checking for troll edits later after I get sleep.
* Mark_McCloud flopps and snores.
(JasonR): Really, His real name is only one click away from the Sibe page anyway (in the criminal record).
(Offline): I'm only asking that his real name be removed form the top of the page out of respect. Sure, he might not be the greatest person around, but I still feel it's wrong
(GreenReaper): Fair enough. That is your opinon, as the above is mine. Such opinions should be placed on the user talk page, where they can be debated. But consider: if most of those in the furry fandom have a bad opinion of him, any new member of the fandom would be quite likely to have the same reaction on hearing what he has done, and continued to do. And I think they should.
(Offline): Alright then. Thank you for listning to what I had to say.
(GreenReaper): I have respect for most people. But respect itself is a measure of opinion. The level of respect drops when the actions are not commesurate with that. Or, more simply: He's done a lot of bad things. The respect I feel I and others owe him as a human being is outweighed by them.
(GreenReaper): Things like "please don't come to a convention when you're not wanted" are based on mutual. If it is not returned, then eventually people stop giving it.
(GreenReaper): *based on mutual respect
(GreenReaper): I shall post this log on the talk page. I shall also post a note directing users there so that they may debate the protection.
(Offline): Thats cool. Thank you for at least considering it and opening it up for disscusion.
(GreenReaper): That is what a wiki is all about. :-)
</nowiki></div>

If you are a visitor to this page, your opinion on whether or not it is appropriate for Sibe's real name to be on the page would be welcome below. Also, any further reliable sources of information that you have could be useful. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:46, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== "Sold" pirated art? ==

I know that he's distributed and torrented various copyrighted works, such as Genus Male and a bunch of art sites such as "SexyFur," but where's the proof that he's actually ''sold'' the pirated artwork? I've never heard of that up until now.

Granted I hope this proof doesn't come from word-of-mouth. It seems that whenever Sibe is discussed, McCarthyism suddenly goes into full-effect and people try to one-up each other on what they've heard from the grapevine about $$DA EVIL HUSKEE$$. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:That's fair enough. I can't immediately see evidence for this in the sources, and none were marked as showng that, so I've changed it to "distributing" rather than "offering for sale". Thanks for helping make this article better! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:55, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::Oh it's no problem. Is there any chance of also getting a commentary on the scapegoating that occurs due to his infamy? Such as if anyone attacks a channel anywhere, or if something happens to anything furry related, the immidiate response is "it was Sibe!"? Not trying to portray him in a better light, because hey, the record's there (at least at the bottom of the page under "criminal record"), but just trying to add more information as to what happens with this dude. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:::Sure, if you can provide some evidence of it . . . for example, if there are newsgroup or forum posts of it occurring. I've not seen it myself, so I don't know.

:::Of course, you should be make sure that it's not '''really''' Sibe behind it all. He can be tricksy, that husky. Like a fox, only grayer! ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:24, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Oh of course. I know of one specifically that happened on FurNet in a channel called #dragonyiff. A bunch of furries (and some Something Awful goons, I think) with the idea to just flood a channel came in, then stopped when the channel was set to "mute." After the flood stopped, one of the few responses was that it was Sibe's doing. That's just one example. I'm not quite sure if it's incredibly apparent, though, but I'll be sure to try and remember more situations that've happened. [[User:Verix|Verix]] 03:45, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::: I never sold pirated art. Thats a blatent lie.

== Hard Evidence ==

Since people were looking for factual information regarding Sibe, I have provided the admins of this site with the actual photocopy scans (in PDF form) of Sibe's criminal record and other related litigation records.

On a note for some of the more privacy minded people who have commented on this disccussion. This information is freely available through the [[Wikipedia:Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)|Freedom of Information Act of 1966]] and through the Privacy Act of 1974. Posting said information in a public forum or other press type format, such as this site, as a part of the [[Sibe]] article to present real and hard evidence of this person in question, is an activity which is specifically protected by the Constitution's first amendment and these two acts. Contrary to what some people have mentioned above, the posting of such information can not be legally constituted as slander because the name "Sibe" is considered a criminal alias for the purposes of identifying Mr. Ross Reddick, and because all information pertaining to such activities within his criminal record is factual. Slander must include some element of falsehood which is designed to ruin a person. Facts and truth are not slander no matter how unflattering they are. Additionally, since this information is directly pertinent to the furry community, it would be unfair in the interests of truth and neutrality to withhold or censor it. The facts should be allowed to speak for themselves, if they paint the person in a bad light then it falls upon the person in question to rectify their own actions.

Finally, if you are interested in more information about Mr. Reddick, then I suggest contacting the FBI and requesting a copy of his FBI file (Yes, one exists and is rather lengthy); contacting one of the groups whom is in currently in litigation with him, like [[Rabbit Valley Press]] or [[FurNation Press]]; or contacting the state/county that said litigation is under teh jurisdiction of.

--[[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 03:59, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Huh? Slander? Who mentioned anything about slander? Or am I just being lazy and not seeing mentions of it in that huge chatlog above or in the discussion I had with Green? -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:00, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Slander is an inference to what [[User:Offline|Offline]] was referring to with regards to the use of [[Sibe]]'s real name.

(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not.
I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that
it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated.
the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since
furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect
their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.

* Slander ≠ Libel. Sillies.

For the purposes of this discussion, what the law has to say about the name "Sibe" is that it's not a fictional character but a criminal alias of a real person. The use of his real name might be considered slanderous or an invasion of privacy if not for the FOIA. -- [[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 06:25, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Ahh. Okay, I figured it was my ADD. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, just an FYI after thought clarification on what I wrote as well: From the point of view of the law, there is a marked difference between an '''''Alias''''', and a '''''Fictional Name'''''. A fictional name is only used to refer to something which does not exist. However, a fictional name ceases being so when it is used to refer to a real person. This name association turns it into an alias, and aliases are '''not''' granted any legal right to privacy. The rationalle for placing aliases on public record and offering them no protection of privacy is to prevent the use of false or alternative names to commit acts of fraud. It is for this the very reason that a legal name change requires a court hearing in most states and one must swear under oath in front of a judge that the name change is not to defraud anyone or to commit future acts of fraud. If aliases were not covered like this, it would present an exploitable loop hole to commit fraud. Additionally, according to the law, the real world does not cease to exist just because someone's actions occur in some intangible virtual space such as IRC or Second Life. The person in the real world sitting behind the computer can be and often is held legally accountable for their actions, wether they be under a "fictional character name" or their real name. So, in closing, regardless of one's opinion on this, whether in agreement or not, it is important to understand that this precident is the one which is currently upheld within the United States judicial system. That's something to chew on and consider as a whole with regard to the whole 'name' rule for this site.

:I should point out that various furs do have valid, legitimate court orders of protection against Mr. Reddick. These furs do go to conventions, and the stipulations of several of their protection orders include "if Mr. Reddick is at the same location as the plaintiff, Mr. Reddick must leave."

: I should also point out (Sibe) that "various" furs do not have valid, legitimate anti-harassment orders against Mr. Reddick. The only one who does is Grey Fox Of Winter , AKA Loki Grey Coyote, aka Lonnie Wilson. That is the only "protection order" that has ever been served my person on a furrys behalf. The way Lonnie got this order was I emailed him, he responded with do not contact me anymore. Then I replied to that with "Why are you so mean?" He used that email discussion as grounds to get his anti-harassment order (less binding then a restraining order). The order will expire Feburary 2006. -Sibe

There's also an interesting interstate aspect of things: if a court order of protection is violated across or while across state lines, it carries 5+ years of jail time in a federal prison, minimum sentence.

Thus, if Mr. Reddick shows his face at a convention that I know one of these furs is at, I will be calling the FBI, and we'll be rid of him for a while.

: Winged

::Do you have links to scans of these court orders, or physical copies of them? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:16, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: The order of protection that was gotten by myself against Ross Reddick was served by publication, and became effective on April 13th, 2005, for a period of one year. It was then personally served on Mr. Reddick on May 8th, 2005 by Officer K. Boyd of the Tukwila Police Department at Southcenter Mall in Washington State. It is actually expiring on April 13th, 2006. The service by publication was done due to his evasion of process service. The reason for service by publication is not to have him arrested from his lack of knowledge from the order, it is to keep the petitioner from having to go to court multiple times to get the temporary ex-parte order renewed over and over again due to the respondant's evasive conduct.

:::Per [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.14.115 RCW 10.14.115], if he had contacted me or otherwise violated the order between April 13th and May 8th of 2005, he would not have been in violation of the order, unless he stated that he was an avid reader of legal notices in the King County Journal (which was the newspaper of legal notice record in the county). After that point, if he violated the terms, he is subject to arrest and contempt of court citation by the district court up here.

:::Anti-Harassment Orders are no less "binding" on the respondent than other forms of protection orders, it's just that violations of a Washington State anti-harassment order is a gross misdemeanor rather than a felony, as far as violations in the state of Washington goes. It could be felony level as far as other states depending on their laws of recognition of such orders from other states and how they translate into their matrix of orders of protection and punishments for violations of such, and federal law also has it's hand in it as well (going across state lines to violate orders of protection is a federal felony offense).

:::States have various different kinds of names for orders of protection, and different punishment levels for violations of such. Oregon's equivalent to Washington State's Anti-Harassment Orders are called "Stalking Protection Orders". The terms "Restraining Order" and "Order of Protection" should be assumed to be general terms encompassing the whole spectrum of such kinds of orders, because every state is different, and as was proven by Further Confusion, corporations can get orders of protection as well against individuals as well, at least in California. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Revert of questionable content ==

I reverted out the following edit to the History section, 20 March 2002:
:''Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown portland to blow the cash at a gay strip club called the Silverado. After blowing the money at the bar, getting drunk and buying drinks for everyone in the bar he drove to Camas, Washington with one of the strippers in the bar. At approximately 7a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges).''
It sounds questionable, it certainly isn't NPOV, and even if it's true, it strikes me as inflammatory and irrelevant detail, something I don't think WikiFur wants to get into. Fell free to discuss and decide if it should be restored.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 17:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:While I disagree in part with how the information was ''presented'', I do believe it is more than plausible given his other actions. If we're describing Sibe's character here, how he spent the money is relevant. I would feel uncomfortable about naming the dancer who went with him, but fortunately this did not come up. The terms of the writing were not NPOV - I have adjusted this. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:43, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

===Questionable links===
An Anonymous user has added information to the article under history and external links which leads to a site that, according to the "new" information in the article, contains a .torrent file which in itself allows a Bit Torrent user to download about 9GB of copyrighted material like that from Sexyfur among other sites. The same changes in the article suggest that Sibe had been banned from LJ because he refused to remove that link from his journal. If that much is true and the supporting evidence is correct, then it may be wise to remove the potentially illegal link(s) from the page to avoid any potential legal trouble. At this time, I have done so, though leaving the "written" email links in place. I would personally think that linking to a page that itself links to a potentially illegal pirated collection of pictures is an unsafe thing to do on this wiki. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Edit: On second thought, after reading the emails themselves, I find them a little dubious. They hold the real names and email addresses as well as phone numbers of a certain person, and if they are real, the people in question probably wouldn't want to be flooded with calls from heaven only knows how many people. The links so far are found on the thepiratebay website and are called "rabbit_mail", "rabbit_resp", and "rabbit_mail2" respectively and in order. I find them dubious though and probably the entire tracker system of the site may reflect its name, I won't care either way. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I'm unsure about this myself. I don't doubt that the emails are valid - actually I think they show [[Rabbit Valley]] in a fairly good light, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were fake.

:I did like the reference to [[PafCon]]:
Hope to see you at the annually furry-convention in Las Vegas! Our whole staff
will be going as the cast from the movie "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey"
:I don't think it's worth worrying about too much, though. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:19, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Exclusion ==

Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Please regard this as the official request for exclusion. [[User:Sibe|Sibe]]

:Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. A written request on a Wikifurry page without proper verification is not a valid form of request. As your IP indicates prior vandalism of Wikifurry entries, we have no way to confirm that you are "Ross H. Reddick," (Sibe.) Please refer to the first suggestion for proper exclusion. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:16, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::"Negative /r/ removal" is not a valid address. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:21, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I've temporarily protected the entry until the exclusion request is verified as actually being from Sibe by an [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]. Play by the rules, and we'll be happy to accomodate your request. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 20:12, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::I've been on the Wiki long enough and I consider myself to be friends with Greenreaper. I know I'm not an administrator, but I can verify that's Sibe. Trust me? :/ --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 20:51, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::This is a removal request from Sibe. The question is, do we accept it?

::[[WikiFur:Personal information]] has always had an important cavaet - ''at the discretion of the WikiFur administration''. To be blunt, out of all articles on WikiFur, this is the one I was thinking of most when I wrote that.

::Many people feel strongly about Sibe. He appears to have done things that, frankly, pissed off a lot of people in the furry fandom, and he has (to my knowledge) shown little to no remorse for those actions. He does not respect the copyright of artists, to the extent that he has actually been tried and convicted for distributing their artwork. His article at WikiFur reflects that.

::Ultimately, the exclusion of articles about people at their request is done out of mutual respect. But is this enough for us to justify denying his request? Is it better for the fandom for it to stay? Should we be willing to remove some information but not other information? What are your thoughts? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:53, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::We ought to respect anyone's removal request, even if personally we don't agree with it. Although I hope with Sibe's approval that an article more acceptable to all could be written. For instance, speculation on which conventions one has been banned from isn't appropriate for anyone's article. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 21:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, personal information protection is something we have not faulted at yet, even for people like [[Random]] and [[Squee rat.]] So, as long if he request it '''personally''' (A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one,) with a real e-mail, that verifies it originated from him ("Ross Redick",) would have to be respected. In other words, he himself, and not hiding behind a "rent-a-email," avatar, or other type of obfuscating device, must ask the administrators in the open.

::::If removed, his "deeds" information can be incorporated into appropriate articles without mentioning this individual. Just my 2 cents. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:13, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered. I was talking to him on AIM. And if you keep adding on to these rules of what Sibe can and cannot do, then he'll have no way of sending an email to anyone. Just revert the damn page, it is him for crying out loud.

:::::And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay? --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 21:22, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::Random's name was removed because it [[Talk:Random|had no particular relevance]] to the rest of the information presented in the article. Squee Rat has (as far as I know) left the fandom. Sibe remains within the fandom; whether his name is required is a valid topic of debate, and is one of the items of information that might reasonably be removed without removing the whole article. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:38, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::::"He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered....And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay?." If you referring to "(A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one)," that was a generic phrase, not directed at you... As in ("A request from Ross' third cousin's PT teacher's gardener's son in law's nephew's drunk girlfriend in his behalf is no a valid one,")... >.< [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::::This isnt really a talk about exclusion, this is just a way that GreenReaper can lock the article, and make it seem like hes not being unfair. However, he really is. I hope I get to meet him in person someday, I would love to talk with him personally about my displeasure with his actions. -Sibe

::::::::This discussion is a method for deciding how we handle this sort of situation now and in the future. Someone has to be the test case, just as a certain person other was for the removal of names in "unrelated" articles where they were not central to the article. I won't just keep removing articles about noted people in the community without assurance that this is, in fact, the thing that the WikiFur community wishes. So far it seems I was right to worry, as there's no obvious consensus - some people think you should be excluded, and some do not, and there has not been much of an attempt at reconciling those positions by pinning down a middle ground.

::::::::I (or another administrator) will unlock the article '''when''' there is agreement on what is to be done. If anyone wishes to propose an alternate version that would be better, than they are free to make a subpage that contains a modified copy of the article. If they favour the removal of such protection from other pages as a result then perhaps examples of the pages that would be placed on these unexcluded pages would be appropriate as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:No new rules for Ross Reddick are being applied for exclusion. [[Random]] and [[Squeerat]] did it by the book (personal email, with their name on it, that could be verified or traced back.) He just need to do as much, that's all. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:27, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::No new rules ''are'' being applied. I have '''always''' considered the appropriateness of any particular exclusion request (and I hope others have, too). In this case I am unsure of the consensus of the community, so I have opened this up for general discussion. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:34, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
:::Please just respect my request to remove the article.
-Sibe

:I should point out that several times I think the 'Sibe' article has been used as a bench mark for what's private and what's public. This discussion on [[Talk:Uncle Kage]] being one. People have to think where the line on public/private info has to be drawn on this wiki and this looks as though it may be where we have to decide. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I am still undecided on this article. I think however that the second paragraph is in serious need of a rewrite in the interim. It is not apppropriate to speculate on what conventions he ''may'' have been banned from. Only the facts should be present in the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:17, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I feel strongly that this article does not qualify for exclusion. Just as a famous person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies. Moreover, I feel that the exclusion of "famous" members of the fandom would be highly detrimental to the goals of WikiFur. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I second what Duncan said. Could be my own words. [[User:Somewolf|somewolf]] 15:08, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:By now, I don't even think it was even Sibe itself, at least asking "directly," to be removed. I still say "Aye." If we apply this standard because he is well "Know," I would vote revoke the protection on "SqueeRat," because, even though she is now old news, the person with that alias did cause a fair amount of commotion, akin to Sibe's actions today, during her time (Same goes for "Random,"...) In other words, why are we excluding these "famous" people's aliases, but we seem to want to throw the rules out for "Sibe"?. Just two cents more [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 18:42, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::Honestly? I don't much agree with excluding Squee Rat or Random, either, for much the same reasons. Now, that is not to say that they don't have a right to privacy - no real names need be included. I think we need to draw a line where a person's actions affect others; '''THAT''' is the information we need to retain. This provides context for where furry fandom is today. Why is alt.fan.furry regarded by many with scorn? Why do some agree with Burned Furs, but not with their methodology? I think that having the participation of these people included in the tapestry of the fandom's history is an important key to answering those questions. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:52, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::In other words, exclude ALL personal information, leave the Aliased person in. If that is possible (for ALL aliases,) then I would vote "Aye" on the matter. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 19:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I have trouble with excluding '''most''' people who have been exceedingly relevant or well-known among furries in their time, even if they did make personal requests. Reducing or removing some personal information is less of a dilemma for me. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 09:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::I believe Sibe is working on a rewrite that does not have the personal information that concerns him. Once we see what he wishes the article to look like, we can perhaps go from there. I would like this issue to be sorted soon - it's been a while. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:09, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::''9/10 September 2005: "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph "As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrent on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested, announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at Nexxus, and ends it by '''professing his love for his family''''', not. The last words in that post were "And now for some lulz:" followed by political satire --[[User:64.216.176.120|64.216.176.120]] 07:23, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The paragraph tries to describe the "gist" of the post, not trying to quote it verbatim. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:57, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Final Vote on the matter? ==

My two cents. The private information of Furs, Non-Furs, and/or Anti-Furs should be protected above all on this Wiki. If Ross Reddick (the real one), or any verified source, wishes such personal information to be taken out, we simply honor it,... '''but'''...

'''Aliases''' ("Fursonas," "Characters," etc) are another matter all together. Sibe, Random, SqueeRat... they have had the too much of an impact in the history of the fandom to be "sanitized" out. Suggestion? (IMHO only): Strip any personal information out, restore the information under these aliases back in their open entries (Even then, we should do the restoration with a "case by case" system.)

('''Notice''': This post '''does not''' represent the official view of [[WikiFur]] on this matter. This is a '''personal''' opinion piece.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:30, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Agreeing about personas ==

I'm going to have to add my input here.. We should be diligent about protecting furs who don't want their real-life information here, but at the same time, avatars and characters and such shouldn't receive as much protection, especially in situations where that avatar is "famous" in the fandom.

Since we are an encyclopedia, it is our duty to have articles on those who are "famous" within the fandom. Famous people in the fandom should be treated much like celebrities are in real-life; information about their characters and what they've done to become famous should be fair game on wikifur.

I do agree with removing Sibe's real name and location from his article if he wishes, though. Despite Sibe's antics, it's only fair to give him the same protection we give others. --[[User:Zorin|Zorin]] 16:33, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:I would disagree in this specific case. In situations such as Squee Rat or Random or Stukafox where their real names and locations are pretty much irrelevent I'm OK with leaving that information out. In the unique case of Sibe, though, his real name and location are very much a matter of public record (and court records, copies of which are linked from this article), I do not think that there is much point in omitting them.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:26, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Restraining order ==

I think date of that order is incorrect. It says 13 September 2005, but [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/6fc21e1f63065875 this] suggests it was much closer to the convention. I'm altering it to 13 January 2006 instead.

I also find it odd that ''[[AAE]]'' managed to get an ex parte restraining order. My understanding of the law (and it is a very bad understanding) was you can only get those on a personal basis. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

:As I pointed out above in the restraining order section of the discussion page, every state has different laws and rules in regards to orders of protection. California is one of the states that allows corporations to get orders of protection. I believe Washington State does as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== 2006 Arrest ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I did a minor revision to reflect that it's not just piracy related lawsuits that he's being served with, but also orders of protection for myself and for Further Confusion's non-profit corporation.

Evil Sibe

2006-02-12T01:45:56Z

Gray Coyote: /* Controversy */

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-02-11T19:18:52Z

Gray Coyote: /* 2006 Arrest */

== Attention, Regarding link to Criminal record ==
The link has been approved as allowed information in regards all privacy laws, public information laws and terms of services for all websites involved. Please see [[User_talk:Nidonocu#Personal_contact_information.3F]] for the discussion regarding this. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 00:06, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Numerous edits have been made to this page since the annoucement of WikiFur. These edits removed information from the page, and so were reverted. When I made the page, I tried to stick to the facts. So far, there has been no debate over them, but there is debate about whether or not they set Sibe in a fair light. There is also debate over whether his real name should be on this page.

Here is a log of a chat on the Wikicities debating this topic, mostly between myself, [[User:Offline|Offline]], and [[User:Markus|Markus]]:

<div style="font-size:8pt; line-height: 9pt; white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana"><nowiki>
(GreenReaper): Anyway, questions?
(Offline): I do have a question. now this is not ment to cause harm in anyway. But why is the option to edit the sibe entry not there anymore?
(Offline): It really looks as if it's violating the ToS. and whit it being so one-sided, People can't even edit it to add good things.
(GreenReaper): I removed the option to edit the sibe article because it had been the target of numerous deletions and alterations, both by people who seemed to support him and seemed not to. None of them was particularly factual or neutral
(Offline): Ahhh.
(GreenReaper): Well, see http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=678&oldid=621
(Offline): still however, it really makes him out to be a really bad guy. Now, I'm not a huge supporter of sibe, or am i even a supporter of the fandom. but it does include his real name.
(Offline): And since it does include his real name, it's more of an attack on his actual person rather than his made up character.
(GreenReaper): So are you saying that the information on there is incorrect? I don't know him personally, but I looked around, and from what I could see, he really *was* a bad guy.
(GreenReaper): I have tried to include information that I found that puts him in a more positive light, like the Conifur 2004 visit
(GreenReaper): but frankly, the balance of evidence shows that he has on numerous occasions caused trouble to many people in the furry fandom.
(GreenReaper): If you have evidence showing that he is, in fact, the savior of mankind, I invite you to post it on the discussion page (as I think I mentioned in user talk)
(GreenReaper): if it checks out as a factual source, it goes in.
(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not. I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated. the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.
* GreenReaper nods.
(Offline): if a link happens to have his real name in it, then whatever. however, the name "Ross Reddick" should be removed from the top of the page there.
(GreenReaper): I am for the separation of real life and the furry fandom where desired, in most circumstances. However in this particular case there is a reason that overrides that, and that reason is that he has demonstrably been a danger to at least one person, caused trouble to many, and may be in the future.
(GreenReaper): Putting the name means it's less likely he can just change his nickname and cause trouble.
(Offline): I know there are many furrys out there who would not like to have their real name posted. I figure it's more respect than anything else. they would rather be known as their "character". Am I right?
(GreenReaper): For example, if he registers at AC 2006 under the name "niceguy", who's to know?
(GreenReaper): You're right. It's in the Category:People page. I wrote it myself. In this case, I feel there is a demonstrable need for his real name to be there.
(Offline): So it is one sided then?
(GreenReaper): People should not be able to escape their actions of such severity as demonstrated by the links currently there just by changing a nickname. To allow that is a problem.
(Offline): Some furs can have the respect of not getting their real name posted. but others due to past actions do not get the same respect.
(GreenReaper): Hmm? It has all the sides I found. Again, if there is a different side, please tell me of it.
(GreenReaper): With all due respect, some furs did not assualt other furs and then steal their cars. :-)
(Offline): that may be true. look at it from his side though.
(GreenReaper): Well, what I'd do if I were him would be to ensure that good things about me got into there, so it *didn't* make me look like someone not to associate with
(GreenReaper): and hopefully, that's the effect it will have. I'm not *that* hopeful, but I'm an optimist.
(GreenReaper): the fact that he managed to attend a convention in 2004 without actually being thrown out is a start on that.
(Offline): I'm sorry. I still think it's wrong to do this to one guy just because he is a fuck-up.
(GreenReaper): The lyrics "you do it to yourself, you do, you and no-one else" come to mind . . . but, if you think that, then do place that discussion on the user talk page.
(GreenReaper): In fact, I could place this entire log on there, if you think it would encourage discussion.
(GreenReaper): If the balance of opinion of people who have contributed well to this wiki is that his real name should be removed, then I will.
(Offline): Thats fine with me.
(Offline): However, I don't see it helping out much since this is Sibe were talking about.
(GreenReaper): Well, yes . . . and that is the point. :-)
(Offline): And I know that the vast majority of the community dislikes this guy very much.
(Offline): But even though you posted the Name rule there, you feel it's right to break it as *you?* see fit.
(GreenReaper): Yes, pretty much.
(GreenReaper): the "probably not a good idea" bit means it's a guideline
(GreenReaper): but even if I'd said it as an absolute rule at the time, I'd feel OK about breaking it if I thought it was right.
(Offline): There are alot of furs out there that I don't like, and there are furs I do like. Either way, no matter if there bad or good, I would give them the respect of keeping their name off this site.
(GreenReaper): Then I thank you. I would again say that in general, it is an excellent guideline to follow. The trouble is where people's online personas and their real life characters have significant overlap.
(GreenReaper): When Sibe tries to go to a convention to which he is banned, one way to at least try to prevent that is to stop people registering using ID with the name Ross Reddick.
(Offline): However, I'm quite sure that all the furry conventions know who this guy is. He does appear to be a widly known furry.
(Offline): I don't think that posting his real name is going to affect the furry conventions.
(Offline): At least, not anymore.
(Ruby_M): Hmm.
*** Ruby_M is now known as Mark_McCloud
(GreenReaper): Probably not. Let's consider the situation where someone new to the fandom comes around. Maybe they got involved with Sibe, only they don't know that since he uses a nickname - but he can't avoid being known as Ross in real life. Should they be able to find his past?
(GreenReaper): *uses a different nickname
(GreenReaper): I would say that, for their safety, they should.
(GreenReaper): If they decide to continue associating with him, it's their call.
(Mark_McCloud): Nice ta see ya Offie.
(GreenReaper): My main concern is that the information on that page is a fair representation. If it is that, then my conscience is clear. If it is not, that needs fixing.
(GreenReaper): The edits made previously did not offer new information that showed him in a better (or worse) light than the current information, and they removed existing information, so they were reverted, and as that continued, I decided to protect the page.
(Mark_McCloud): I myself had to defend a page that has been attacted a few times. The main page.
(Mark_McCloud): Some people..
(Offline): If a new furry were to join the fandom, I think it would be best if they made friends on their own, and not told how they should and shouldn't be friends with.
(Mark_McCloud): The page for Sibe is as neutral as can be. Saying he "smoked a bowl" is not fact in the way it was expressed, but a speculation or guess..
(Mark_McCloud): in any case.. I need to sleep.. I'll be checking for troll edits later after I get sleep.
* Mark_McCloud flopps and snores.
(JasonR): Really, His real name is only one click away from the Sibe page anyway (in the criminal record).
(Offline): I'm only asking that his real name be removed form the top of the page out of respect. Sure, he might not be the greatest person around, but I still feel it's wrong
(GreenReaper): Fair enough. That is your opinon, as the above is mine. Such opinions should be placed on the user talk page, where they can be debated. But consider: if most of those in the furry fandom have a bad opinion of him, any new member of the fandom would be quite likely to have the same reaction on hearing what he has done, and continued to do. And I think they should.
(Offline): Alright then. Thank you for listning to what I had to say.
(GreenReaper): I have respect for most people. But respect itself is a measure of opinion. The level of respect drops when the actions are not commesurate with that. Or, more simply: He's done a lot of bad things. The respect I feel I and others owe him as a human being is outweighed by them.
(GreenReaper): Things like "please don't come to a convention when you're not wanted" are based on mutual. If it is not returned, then eventually people stop giving it.
(GreenReaper): *based on mutual respect
(GreenReaper): I shall post this log on the talk page. I shall also post a note directing users there so that they may debate the protection.
(Offline): Thats cool. Thank you for at least considering it and opening it up for disscusion.
(GreenReaper): That is what a wiki is all about. :-)
</nowiki></div>

If you are a visitor to this page, your opinion on whether or not it is appropriate for Sibe's real name to be on the page would be welcome below. Also, any further reliable sources of information that you have could be useful. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:46, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== "Sold" pirated art? ==

I know that he's distributed and torrented various copyrighted works, such as Genus Male and a bunch of art sites such as "SexyFur," but where's the proof that he's actually ''sold'' the pirated artwork? I've never heard of that up until now.

Granted I hope this proof doesn't come from word-of-mouth. It seems that whenever Sibe is discussed, McCarthyism suddenly goes into full-effect and people try to one-up each other on what they've heard from the grapevine about $$DA EVIL HUSKEE$$. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:That's fair enough. I can't immediately see evidence for this in the sources, and none were marked as showng that, so I've changed it to "distributing" rather than "offering for sale". Thanks for helping make this article better! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:55, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::Oh it's no problem. Is there any chance of also getting a commentary on the scapegoating that occurs due to his infamy? Such as if anyone attacks a channel anywhere, or if something happens to anything furry related, the immidiate response is "it was Sibe!"? Not trying to portray him in a better light, because hey, the record's there (at least at the bottom of the page under "criminal record"), but just trying to add more information as to what happens with this dude. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:::Sure, if you can provide some evidence of it . . . for example, if there are newsgroup or forum posts of it occurring. I've not seen it myself, so I don't know.

:::Of course, you should be make sure that it's not '''really''' Sibe behind it all. He can be tricksy, that husky. Like a fox, only grayer! ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:24, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Oh of course. I know of one specifically that happened on FurNet in a channel called #dragonyiff. A bunch of furries (and some Something Awful goons, I think) with the idea to just flood a channel came in, then stopped when the channel was set to "mute." After the flood stopped, one of the few responses was that it was Sibe's doing. That's just one example. I'm not quite sure if it's incredibly apparent, though, but I'll be sure to try and remember more situations that've happened. [[User:Verix|Verix]] 03:45, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::: I never sold pirated art. Thats a blatent lie.

== Hard Evidence ==

Since people were looking for factual information regarding Sibe, I have provided the admins of this site with the actual photocopy scans (in PDF form) of Sibe's criminal record and other related litigation records.

On a note for some of the more privacy minded people who have commented on this disccussion. This information is freely available through the [[Wikipedia:Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)|Freedom of Information Act of 1966]] and through the Privacy Act of 1974. Posting said information in a public forum or other press type format, such as this site, as a part of the [[Sibe]] article to present real and hard evidence of this person in question, is an activity which is specifically protected by the Constitution's first amendment and these two acts. Contrary to what some people have mentioned above, the posting of such information can not be legally constituted as slander because the name "Sibe" is considered a criminal alias for the purposes of identifying Mr. Ross Reddick, and because all information pertaining to such activities within his criminal record is factual. Slander must include some element of falsehood which is designed to ruin a person. Facts and truth are not slander no matter how unflattering they are. Additionally, since this information is directly pertinent to the furry community, it would be unfair in the interests of truth and neutrality to withhold or censor it. The facts should be allowed to speak for themselves, if they paint the person in a bad light then it falls upon the person in question to rectify their own actions.

Finally, if you are interested in more information about Mr. Reddick, then I suggest contacting the FBI and requesting a copy of his FBI file (Yes, one exists and is rather lengthy); contacting one of the groups whom is in currently in litigation with him, like [[Rabbit Valley Press]] or [[FurNation Press]]; or contacting the state/county that said litigation is under teh jurisdiction of.

--[[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 03:59, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Huh? Slander? Who mentioned anything about slander? Or am I just being lazy and not seeing mentions of it in that huge chatlog above or in the discussion I had with Green? -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:00, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Slander is an inference to what [[User:Offline|Offline]] was referring to with regards to the use of [[Sibe]]'s real name.

(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not.
I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that
it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated.
the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since
furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect
their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.

* Slander ≠ Libel. Sillies.

For the purposes of this discussion, what the law has to say about the name "Sibe" is that it's not a fictional character but a criminal alias of a real person. The use of his real name might be considered slanderous or an invasion of privacy if not for the FOIA. -- [[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 06:25, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Ahh. Okay, I figured it was my ADD. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, just an FYI after thought clarification on what I wrote as well: From the point of view of the law, there is a marked difference between an '''''Alias''''', and a '''''Fictional Name'''''. A fictional name is only used to refer to something which does not exist. However, a fictional name ceases being so when it is used to refer to a real person. This name association turns it into an alias, and aliases are '''not''' granted any legal right to privacy. The rationalle for placing aliases on public record and offering them no protection of privacy is to prevent the use of false or alternative names to commit acts of fraud. It is for this the very reason that a legal name change requires a court hearing in most states and one must swear under oath in front of a judge that the name change is not to defraud anyone or to commit future acts of fraud. If aliases were not covered like this, it would present an exploitable loop hole to commit fraud. Additionally, according to the law, the real world does not cease to exist just because someone's actions occur in some intangible virtual space such as IRC or Second Life. The person in the real world sitting behind the computer can be and often is held legally accountable for their actions, wether they be under a "fictional character name" or their real name. So, in closing, regardless of one's opinion on this, whether in agreement or not, it is important to understand that this precident is the one which is currently upheld within the United States judicial system. That's something to chew on and consider as a whole with regard to the whole 'name' rule for this site.

:I should point out that various furs do have valid, legitimate court orders of protection against Mr. Reddick. These furs do go to conventions, and the stipulations of several of their protection orders include "if Mr. Reddick is at the same location as the plaintiff, Mr. Reddick must leave."

: I should also point out (Sibe) that "various" furs do not have valid, legitimate anti-harassment orders against Mr. Reddick. The only one who does is Grey Fox Of Winter , AKA Loki Grey Coyote, aka Lonnie Wilson. That is the only "protection order" that has ever been served my person on a furrys behalf. The way Lonnie got this order was I emailed him, he responded with do not contact me anymore. Then I replied to that with "Why are you so mean?" He used that email discussion as grounds to get his anti-harassment order (less binding then a restraining order). The order will expire Feburary 2006. -Sibe

There's also an interesting interstate aspect of things: if a court order of protection is violated across or while across state lines, it carries 5+ years of jail time in a federal prison, minimum sentence.

Thus, if Mr. Reddick shows his face at a convention that I know one of these furs is at, I will be calling the FBI, and we'll be rid of him for a while.

: Winged

::Do you have links to scans of these court orders, or physical copies of them? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:16, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: The order of protection that was gotten by myself against Ross Reddick was served by publication, and became effective on April 13th, 2005, for a period of one year. It was then personally served on Mr. Reddick on May 8th, 2005 by Officer K. Boyd of the Tukwila Police Department at Southcenter Mall in Washington State. It is actually expiring on April 13th, 2006. The service by publication was done due to his evasion of process service. The reason for service by publication is not to have him arrested from his lack of knowledge from the order, it is to keep the petitioner from having to go to court multiple times to get the temporary ex-parte order renewed over and over again due to the respondant's evasive conduct.

:::Per [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.14.115 RCW 10.14.115], if he had contacted me or otherwise violated the order between April 13th and May 8th of 2005, he would not have been in violation of the order, unless he stated that he was an avid reader of legal notices in the King County Journal (which was the newspaper of legal notice record in the county). After that point, if he violated the terms, he is subject to arrest and contempt of court citation by the district court up here.

:::Anti-Harassment Orders are no less "binding" on the respondent than other forms of protection orders, it's just that violations of a Washington State anti-harassment order is a gross misdemeanor rather than a felony, as far as violations in the state of Washington goes. It could be felony level as far as other states depending on their laws of recognition of such orders from other states and how they translate into their matrix of orders of protection and punishments for violations of such, and federal law also has it's hand in it as well (going across state lines to violate orders of protection is a federal felony offense).

:::States have various different kinds of names for orders of protection, and different punishment levels for violations of such. Oregon's equivalent to Washington State's Anti-Harassment Orders are called "Stalking Protection Orders". The terms "Restraining Order" and "Order of Protection" should be assumed to be general terms encompassing the whole spectrum of such kinds of orders, because every state is different, and as was proven by Further Confusion, corporations can get orders of protection as well against individuals as well, at least in California. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Revert of questionable content ==

I reverted out the following edit to the History section, 20 March 2002:
:''Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown portland to blow the cash at a gay strip club called the Silverado. After blowing the money at the bar, getting drunk and buying drinks for everyone in the bar he drove to Camas, Washington with one of the strippers in the bar. At approximately 7a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges).''
It sounds questionable, it certainly isn't NPOV, and even if it's true, it strikes me as inflammatory and irrelevant detail, something I don't think WikiFur wants to get into. Fell free to discuss and decide if it should be restored.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 17:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:While I disagree in part with how the information was ''presented'', I do believe it is more than plausible given his other actions. If we're describing Sibe's character here, how he spent the money is relevant. I would feel uncomfortable about naming the dancer who went with him, but fortunately this did not come up. The terms of the writing were not NPOV - I have adjusted this. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:43, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

===Questionable links===
An Anonymous user has added information to the article under history and external links which leads to a site that, according to the "new" information in the article, contains a .torrent file which in itself allows a Bit Torrent user to download about 9GB of copyrighted material like that from Sexyfur among other sites. The same changes in the article suggest that Sibe had been banned from LJ because he refused to remove that link from his journal. If that much is true and the supporting evidence is correct, then it may be wise to remove the potentially illegal link(s) from the page to avoid any potential legal trouble. At this time, I have done so, though leaving the "written" email links in place. I would personally think that linking to a page that itself links to a potentially illegal pirated collection of pictures is an unsafe thing to do on this wiki. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Edit: On second thought, after reading the emails themselves, I find them a little dubious. They hold the real names and email addresses as well as phone numbers of a certain person, and if they are real, the people in question probably wouldn't want to be flooded with calls from heaven only knows how many people. The links so far are found on the thepiratebay website and are called "rabbit_mail", "rabbit_resp", and "rabbit_mail2" respectively and in order. I find them dubious though and probably the entire tracker system of the site may reflect its name, I won't care either way. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I'm unsure about this myself. I don't doubt that the emails are valid - actually I think they show [[Rabbit Valley]] in a fairly good light, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were fake.

:I did like the reference to [[PafCon]]:
Hope to see you at the annually furry-convention in Las Vegas! Our whole staff
will be going as the cast from the movie "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey"
:I don't think it's worth worrying about too much, though. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:19, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Exclusion ==

Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Please regard this as the official request for exclusion. [[User:Sibe|Sibe]]

:Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. A written request on a Wikifurry page without proper verification is not a valid form of request. As your IP indicates prior vandalism of Wikifurry entries, we have no way to confirm that you are "Ross H. Reddick," (Sibe.) Please refer to the first suggestion for proper exclusion. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:16, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::"Negative /r/ removal" is not a valid address. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:21, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I've temporarily protected the entry until the exclusion request is verified as actually being from Sibe by an [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]. Play by the rules, and we'll be happy to accomodate your request. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 20:12, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::I've been on the Wiki long enough and I consider myself to be friends with Greenreaper. I know I'm not an administrator, but I can verify that's Sibe. Trust me? :/ --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 20:51, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::This is a removal request from Sibe. The question is, do we accept it?

::[[WikiFur:Personal information]] has always had an important cavaet - ''at the discretion of the WikiFur administration''. To be blunt, out of all articles on WikiFur, this is the one I was thinking of most when I wrote that.

::Many people feel strongly about Sibe. He appears to have done things that, frankly, pissed off a lot of people in the furry fandom, and he has (to my knowledge) shown little to no remorse for those actions. He does not respect the copyright of artists, to the extent that he has actually been tried and convicted for distributing their artwork. His article at WikiFur reflects that.

::Ultimately, the exclusion of articles about people at their request is done out of mutual respect. But is this enough for us to justify denying his request? Is it better for the fandom for it to stay? Should we be willing to remove some information but not other information? What are your thoughts? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:53, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::We ought to respect anyone's removal request, even if personally we don't agree with it. Although I hope with Sibe's approval that an article more acceptable to all could be written. For instance, speculation on which conventions one has been banned from isn't appropriate for anyone's article. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 21:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, personal information protection is something we have not faulted at yet, even for people like [[Random]] and [[Squee rat.]] So, as long if he request it '''personally''' (A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one,) with a real e-mail, that verifies it originated from him ("Ross Redick",) would have to be respected. In other words, he himself, and not hiding behind a "rent-a-email," avatar, or other type of obfuscating device, must ask the administrators in the open.

::::If removed, his "deeds" information can be incorporated into appropriate articles without mentioning this individual. Just my 2 cents. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:13, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered. I was talking to him on AIM. And if you keep adding on to these rules of what Sibe can and cannot do, then he'll have no way of sending an email to anyone. Just revert the damn page, it is him for crying out loud.

:::::And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay? --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 21:22, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::Random's name was removed because it [[Talk:Random|had no particular relevance]] to the rest of the information presented in the article. Squee Rat has (as far as I know) left the fandom. Sibe remains within the fandom; whether his name is required is a valid topic of debate, and is one of the items of information that might reasonably be removed without removing the whole article. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:38, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::::"He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered....And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay?." If you referring to "(A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one)," that was a generic phrase, not directed at you... As in ("A request from Ross' third cousin's PT teacher's gardener's son in law's nephew's drunk girlfriend in his behalf is no a valid one,")... >.< [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::::This isnt really a talk about exclusion, this is just a way that GreenReaper can lock the article, and make it seem like hes not being unfair. However, he really is. I hope I get to meet him in person someday, I would love to talk with him personally about my displeasure with his actions. -Sibe

::::::::This discussion is a method for deciding how we handle this sort of situation now and in the future. Someone has to be the test case, just as a certain person other was for the removal of names in "unrelated" articles where they were not central to the article. I won't just keep removing articles about noted people in the community without assurance that this is, in fact, the thing that the WikiFur community wishes. So far it seems I was right to worry, as there's no obvious consensus - some people think you should be excluded, and some do not, and there has not been much of an attempt at reconciling those positions by pinning down a middle ground.

::::::::I (or another administrator) will unlock the article '''when''' there is agreement on what is to be done. If anyone wishes to propose an alternate version that would be better, than they are free to make a subpage that contains a modified copy of the article. If they favour the removal of such protection from other pages as a result then perhaps examples of the pages that would be placed on these unexcluded pages would be appropriate as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:No new rules for Ross Reddick are being applied for exclusion. [[Random]] and [[Squeerat]] did it by the book (personal email, with their name on it, that could be verified or traced back.) He just need to do as much, that's all. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:27, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::No new rules ''are'' being applied. I have '''always''' considered the appropriateness of any particular exclusion request (and I hope others have, too). In this case I am unsure of the consensus of the community, so I have opened this up for general discussion. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:34, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
:::Please just respect my request to remove the article.
-Sibe

:I should point out that several times I think the 'Sibe' article has been used as a bench mark for what's private and what's public. This discussion on [[Talk:Uncle Kage]] being one. People have to think where the line on public/private info has to be drawn on this wiki and this looks as though it may be where we have to decide. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I am still undecided on this article. I think however that the second paragraph is in serious need of a rewrite in the interim. It is not apppropriate to speculate on what conventions he ''may'' have been banned from. Only the facts should be present in the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:17, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I feel strongly that this article does not qualify for exclusion. Just as a famous person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies. Moreover, I feel that the exclusion of "famous" members of the fandom would be highly detrimental to the goals of WikiFur. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I second what Duncan said. Could be my own words. [[User:Somewolf|somewolf]] 15:08, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:By now, I don't even think it was even Sibe itself, at least asking "directly," to be removed. I still say "Aye." If we apply this standard because he is well "Know," I would vote revoke the protection on "SqueeRat," because, even though she is now old news, the person with that alias did cause a fair amount of commotion, akin to Sibe's actions today, during her time (Same goes for "Random,"...) In other words, why are we excluding these "famous" people's aliases, but we seem to want to throw the rules out for "Sibe"?. Just two cents more [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 18:42, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::Honestly? I don't much agree with excluding Squee Rat or Random, either, for much the same reasons. Now, that is not to say that they don't have a right to privacy - no real names need be included. I think we need to draw a line where a person's actions affect others; '''THAT''' is the information we need to retain. This provides context for where furry fandom is today. Why is alt.fan.furry regarded by many with scorn? Why do some agree with Burned Furs, but not with their methodology? I think that having the participation of these people included in the tapestry of the fandom's history is an important key to answering those questions. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:52, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::In other words, exclude ALL personal information, leave the Aliased person in. If that is possible (for ALL aliases,) then I would vote "Aye" on the matter. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 19:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I have trouble with excluding '''most''' people who have been exceedingly relevant or well-known among furries in their time, even if they did make personal requests. Reducing or removing some personal information is less of a dilemma for me. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 09:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::I believe Sibe is working on a rewrite that does not have the personal information that concerns him. Once we see what he wishes the article to look like, we can perhaps go from there. I would like this issue to be sorted soon - it's been a while. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:09, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::''9/10 September 2005: "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph "As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrent on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested, announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at Nexxus, and ends it by '''professing his love for his family''''', not. The last words in that post were "And now for some lulz:" followed by political satire --[[User:64.216.176.120|64.216.176.120]] 07:23, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The paragraph tries to describe the "gist" of the post, not trying to quote it verbatim. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:57, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Final Vote on the matter? ==

My two cents. The private information of Furs, Non-Furs, and/or Anti-Furs should be protected above all on this Wiki. If Ross Reddick (the real one), or any verified source, wishes such personal information to be taken out, we simply honor it,... '''but'''...

'''Aliases''' ("Fursonas," "Characters," etc) are another matter all together. Sibe, Random, SqueeRat... they have had the too much of an impact in the history of the fandom to be "sanitized" out. Suggestion? (IMHO only): Strip any personal information out, restore the information under these aliases back in their open entries (Even then, we should do the restoration with a "case by case" system.)

('''Notice''': This post '''does not''' represent the official view of [[WikiFur]] on this matter. This is a '''personal''' opinion piece.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:30, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Agreeing about personas ==

I'm going to have to add my input here.. We should be diligent about protecting furs who don't want their real-life information here, but at the same time, avatars and characters and such shouldn't receive as much protection, especially in situations where that avatar is "famous" in the fandom.

Since we are an encyclopedia, it is our duty to have articles on those who are "famous" within the fandom. Famous people in the fandom should be treated much like celebrities are in real-life; information about their characters and what they've done to become famous should be fair game on wikifur.

I do agree with removing Sibe's real name and location from his article if he wishes, though. Despite Sibe's antics, it's only fair to give him the same protection we give others. --[[User:Zorin|Zorin]] 16:33, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:I would disagree in this specific case. In situations such as Squee Rat or Random or Stukafox where their real names and locations are pretty much irrelevent I'm OK with leaving that information out. In the unique case of Sibe, though, his real name and location are very much a matter of public record (and court records, copies of which are linked from this article), I do not think that there is much point in omitting them.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:26, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Restraining order ==

I think date of that order is incorrect. It says 13 September 2005, but [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/6fc21e1f63065875 this] suggests it was much closer to the convention. I'm altering it to 13 January 2006 instead.

I also find it odd that ''[[AAE]]'' managed to get an ex parte restraining order. My understanding of the law (and it is a very bad understanding) was you can only get those on a personal basis. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

:As I pointed out above in the restraining order section of the discussion page, every state has different laws and rules in regards to orders of protection. California is one of the states that allows corporations to get orders of protection. I believe Washington State does as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== 2006 Arrest ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:17, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-02-11T19:15:59Z

Gray Coyote:

== Attention, Regarding link to Criminal record ==
The link has been approved as allowed information in regards all privacy laws, public information laws and terms of services for all websites involved. Please see [[User_talk:Nidonocu#Personal_contact_information.3F]] for the discussion regarding this. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 00:06, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Numerous edits have been made to this page since the annoucement of WikiFur. These edits removed information from the page, and so were reverted. When I made the page, I tried to stick to the facts. So far, there has been no debate over them, but there is debate about whether or not they set Sibe in a fair light. There is also debate over whether his real name should be on this page.

Here is a log of a chat on the Wikicities debating this topic, mostly between myself, [[User:Offline|Offline]], and [[User:Markus|Markus]]:

<div style="font-size:8pt; line-height: 9pt; white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana"><nowiki>
(GreenReaper): Anyway, questions?
(Offline): I do have a question. now this is not ment to cause harm in anyway. But why is the option to edit the sibe entry not there anymore?
(Offline): It really looks as if it's violating the ToS. and whit it being so one-sided, People can't even edit it to add good things.
(GreenReaper): I removed the option to edit the sibe article because it had been the target of numerous deletions and alterations, both by people who seemed to support him and seemed not to. None of them was particularly factual or neutral
(Offline): Ahhh.
(GreenReaper): Well, see http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=678&oldid=621
(Offline): still however, it really makes him out to be a really bad guy. Now, I'm not a huge supporter of sibe, or am i even a supporter of the fandom. but it does include his real name.
(Offline): And since it does include his real name, it's more of an attack on his actual person rather than his made up character.
(GreenReaper): So are you saying that the information on there is incorrect? I don't know him personally, but I looked around, and from what I could see, he really *was* a bad guy.
(GreenReaper): I have tried to include information that I found that puts him in a more positive light, like the Conifur 2004 visit
(GreenReaper): but frankly, the balance of evidence shows that he has on numerous occasions caused trouble to many people in the furry fandom.
(GreenReaper): If you have evidence showing that he is, in fact, the savior of mankind, I invite you to post it on the discussion page (as I think I mentioned in user talk)
(GreenReaper): if it checks out as a factual source, it goes in.
(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not. I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated. the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.
* GreenReaper nods.
(Offline): if a link happens to have his real name in it, then whatever. however, the name "Ross Reddick" should be removed from the top of the page there.
(GreenReaper): I am for the separation of real life and the furry fandom where desired, in most circumstances. However in this particular case there is a reason that overrides that, and that reason is that he has demonstrably been a danger to at least one person, caused trouble to many, and may be in the future.
(GreenReaper): Putting the name means it's less likely he can just change his nickname and cause trouble.
(Offline): I know there are many furrys out there who would not like to have their real name posted. I figure it's more respect than anything else. they would rather be known as their "character". Am I right?
(GreenReaper): For example, if he registers at AC 2006 under the name "niceguy", who's to know?
(GreenReaper): You're right. It's in the Category:People page. I wrote it myself. In this case, I feel there is a demonstrable need for his real name to be there.
(Offline): So it is one sided then?
(GreenReaper): People should not be able to escape their actions of such severity as demonstrated by the links currently there just by changing a nickname. To allow that is a problem.
(Offline): Some furs can have the respect of not getting their real name posted. but others due to past actions do not get the same respect.
(GreenReaper): Hmm? It has all the sides I found. Again, if there is a different side, please tell me of it.
(GreenReaper): With all due respect, some furs did not assualt other furs and then steal their cars. :-)
(Offline): that may be true. look at it from his side though.
(GreenReaper): Well, what I'd do if I were him would be to ensure that good things about me got into there, so it *didn't* make me look like someone not to associate with
(GreenReaper): and hopefully, that's the effect it will have. I'm not *that* hopeful, but I'm an optimist.
(GreenReaper): the fact that he managed to attend a convention in 2004 without actually being thrown out is a start on that.
(Offline): I'm sorry. I still think it's wrong to do this to one guy just because he is a fuck-up.
(GreenReaper): The lyrics "you do it to yourself, you do, you and no-one else" come to mind . . . but, if you think that, then do place that discussion on the user talk page.
(GreenReaper): In fact, I could place this entire log on there, if you think it would encourage discussion.
(GreenReaper): If the balance of opinion of people who have contributed well to this wiki is that his real name should be removed, then I will.
(Offline): Thats fine with me.
(Offline): However, I don't see it helping out much since this is Sibe were talking about.
(GreenReaper): Well, yes . . . and that is the point. :-)
(Offline): And I know that the vast majority of the community dislikes this guy very much.
(Offline): But even though you posted the Name rule there, you feel it's right to break it as *you?* see fit.
(GreenReaper): Yes, pretty much.
(GreenReaper): the "probably not a good idea" bit means it's a guideline
(GreenReaper): but even if I'd said it as an absolute rule at the time, I'd feel OK about breaking it if I thought it was right.
(Offline): There are alot of furs out there that I don't like, and there are furs I do like. Either way, no matter if there bad or good, I would give them the respect of keeping their name off this site.
(GreenReaper): Then I thank you. I would again say that in general, it is an excellent guideline to follow. The trouble is where people's online personas and their real life characters have significant overlap.
(GreenReaper): When Sibe tries to go to a convention to which he is banned, one way to at least try to prevent that is to stop people registering using ID with the name Ross Reddick.
(Offline): However, I'm quite sure that all the furry conventions know who this guy is. He does appear to be a widly known furry.
(Offline): I don't think that posting his real name is going to affect the furry conventions.
(Offline): At least, not anymore.
(Ruby_M): Hmm.
*** Ruby_M is now known as Mark_McCloud
(GreenReaper): Probably not. Let's consider the situation where someone new to the fandom comes around. Maybe they got involved with Sibe, only they don't know that since he uses a nickname - but he can't avoid being known as Ross in real life. Should they be able to find his past?
(GreenReaper): *uses a different nickname
(GreenReaper): I would say that, for their safety, they should.
(GreenReaper): If they decide to continue associating with him, it's their call.
(Mark_McCloud): Nice ta see ya Offie.
(GreenReaper): My main concern is that the information on that page is a fair representation. If it is that, then my conscience is clear. If it is not, that needs fixing.
(GreenReaper): The edits made previously did not offer new information that showed him in a better (or worse) light than the current information, and they removed existing information, so they were reverted, and as that continued, I decided to protect the page.
(Mark_McCloud): I myself had to defend a page that has been attacted a few times. The main page.
(Mark_McCloud): Some people..
(Offline): If a new furry were to join the fandom, I think it would be best if they made friends on their own, and not told how they should and shouldn't be friends with.
(Mark_McCloud): The page for Sibe is as neutral as can be. Saying he "smoked a bowl" is not fact in the way it was expressed, but a speculation or guess..
(Mark_McCloud): in any case.. I need to sleep.. I'll be checking for troll edits later after I get sleep.
* Mark_McCloud flopps and snores.
(JasonR): Really, His real name is only one click away from the Sibe page anyway (in the criminal record).
(Offline): I'm only asking that his real name be removed form the top of the page out of respect. Sure, he might not be the greatest person around, but I still feel it's wrong
(GreenReaper): Fair enough. That is your opinon, as the above is mine. Such opinions should be placed on the user talk page, where they can be debated. But consider: if most of those in the furry fandom have a bad opinion of him, any new member of the fandom would be quite likely to have the same reaction on hearing what he has done, and continued to do. And I think they should.
(Offline): Alright then. Thank you for listning to what I had to say.
(GreenReaper): I have respect for most people. But respect itself is a measure of opinion. The level of respect drops when the actions are not commesurate with that. Or, more simply: He's done a lot of bad things. The respect I feel I and others owe him as a human being is outweighed by them.
(GreenReaper): Things like "please don't come to a convention when you're not wanted" are based on mutual. If it is not returned, then eventually people stop giving it.
(GreenReaper): *based on mutual respect
(GreenReaper): I shall post this log on the talk page. I shall also post a note directing users there so that they may debate the protection.
(Offline): Thats cool. Thank you for at least considering it and opening it up for disscusion.
(GreenReaper): That is what a wiki is all about. :-)
</nowiki></div>

If you are a visitor to this page, your opinion on whether or not it is appropriate for Sibe's real name to be on the page would be welcome below. Also, any further reliable sources of information that you have could be useful. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:46, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== "Sold" pirated art? ==

I know that he's distributed and torrented various copyrighted works, such as Genus Male and a bunch of art sites such as "SexyFur," but where's the proof that he's actually ''sold'' the pirated artwork? I've never heard of that up until now.

Granted I hope this proof doesn't come from word-of-mouth. It seems that whenever Sibe is discussed, McCarthyism suddenly goes into full-effect and people try to one-up each other on what they've heard from the grapevine about $$DA EVIL HUSKEE$$. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:That's fair enough. I can't immediately see evidence for this in the sources, and none were marked as showng that, so I've changed it to "distributing" rather than "offering for sale". Thanks for helping make this article better! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:55, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::Oh it's no problem. Is there any chance of also getting a commentary on the scapegoating that occurs due to his infamy? Such as if anyone attacks a channel anywhere, or if something happens to anything furry related, the immidiate response is "it was Sibe!"? Not trying to portray him in a better light, because hey, the record's there (at least at the bottom of the page under "criminal record"), but just trying to add more information as to what happens with this dude. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:::Sure, if you can provide some evidence of it . . . for example, if there are newsgroup or forum posts of it occurring. I've not seen it myself, so I don't know.

:::Of course, you should be make sure that it's not '''really''' Sibe behind it all. He can be tricksy, that husky. Like a fox, only grayer! ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:24, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Oh of course. I know of one specifically that happened on FurNet in a channel called #dragonyiff. A bunch of furries (and some Something Awful goons, I think) with the idea to just flood a channel came in, then stopped when the channel was set to "mute." After the flood stopped, one of the few responses was that it was Sibe's doing. That's just one example. I'm not quite sure if it's incredibly apparent, though, but I'll be sure to try and remember more situations that've happened. [[User:Verix|Verix]] 03:45, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::: I never sold pirated art. Thats a blatent lie.

== Hard Evidence ==

Since people were looking for factual information regarding Sibe, I have provided the admins of this site with the actual photocopy scans (in PDF form) of Sibe's criminal record and other related litigation records.

On a note for some of the more privacy minded people who have commented on this disccussion. This information is freely available through the [[Wikipedia:Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)|Freedom of Information Act of 1966]] and through the Privacy Act of 1974. Posting said information in a public forum or other press type format, such as this site, as a part of the [[Sibe]] article to present real and hard evidence of this person in question, is an activity which is specifically protected by the Constitution's first amendment and these two acts. Contrary to what some people have mentioned above, the posting of such information can not be legally constituted as slander because the name "Sibe" is considered a criminal alias for the purposes of identifying Mr. Ross Reddick, and because all information pertaining to such activities within his criminal record is factual. Slander must include some element of falsehood which is designed to ruin a person. Facts and truth are not slander no matter how unflattering they are. Additionally, since this information is directly pertinent to the furry community, it would be unfair in the interests of truth and neutrality to withhold or censor it. The facts should be allowed to speak for themselves, if they paint the person in a bad light then it falls upon the person in question to rectify their own actions.

Finally, if you are interested in more information about Mr. Reddick, then I suggest contacting the FBI and requesting a copy of his FBI file (Yes, one exists and is rather lengthy); contacting one of the groups whom is in currently in litigation with him, like [[Rabbit Valley Press]] or [[FurNation Press]]; or contacting the state/county that said litigation is under teh jurisdiction of.

--[[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 03:59, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Huh? Slander? Who mentioned anything about slander? Or am I just being lazy and not seeing mentions of it in that huge chatlog above or in the discussion I had with Green? -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:00, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Slander is an inference to what [[User:Offline|Offline]] was referring to with regards to the use of [[Sibe]]'s real name.

(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not.
I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that
it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated.
the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since
furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect
their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.

* Slander ≠ Libel. Sillies.

For the purposes of this discussion, what the law has to say about the name "Sibe" is that it's not a fictional character but a criminal alias of a real person. The use of his real name might be considered slanderous or an invasion of privacy if not for the FOIA. -- [[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 06:25, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Ahh. Okay, I figured it was my ADD. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, just an FYI after thought clarification on what I wrote as well: From the point of view of the law, there is a marked difference between an '''''Alias''''', and a '''''Fictional Name'''''. A fictional name is only used to refer to something which does not exist. However, a fictional name ceases being so when it is used to refer to a real person. This name association turns it into an alias, and aliases are '''not''' granted any legal right to privacy. The rationalle for placing aliases on public record and offering them no protection of privacy is to prevent the use of false or alternative names to commit acts of fraud. It is for this the very reason that a legal name change requires a court hearing in most states and one must swear under oath in front of a judge that the name change is not to defraud anyone or to commit future acts of fraud. If aliases were not covered like this, it would present an exploitable loop hole to commit fraud. Additionally, according to the law, the real world does not cease to exist just because someone's actions occur in some intangible virtual space such as IRC or Second Life. The person in the real world sitting behind the computer can be and often is held legally accountable for their actions, wether they be under a "fictional character name" or their real name. So, in closing, regardless of one's opinion on this, whether in agreement or not, it is important to understand that this precident is the one which is currently upheld within the United States judicial system. That's something to chew on and consider as a whole with regard to the whole 'name' rule for this site.

:I should point out that various furs do have valid, legitimate court orders of protection against Mr. Reddick. These furs do go to conventions, and the stipulations of several of their protection orders include "if Mr. Reddick is at the same location as the plaintiff, Mr. Reddick must leave."

: I should also point out (Sibe) that "various" furs do not have valid, legitimate anti-harassment orders against Mr. Reddick. The only one who does is Grey Fox Of Winter , AKA Loki Grey Coyote, aka Lonnie Wilson. That is the only "protection order" that has ever been served my person on a furrys behalf. The way Lonnie got this order was I emailed him, he responded with do not contact me anymore. Then I replied to that with "Why are you so mean?" He used that email discussion as grounds to get his anti-harassment order (less binding then a restraining order). The order will expire Feburary 2006. -Sibe

There's also an interesting interstate aspect of things: if a court order of protection is violated across or while across state lines, it carries 5+ years of jail time in a federal prison, minimum sentence.

Thus, if Mr. Reddick shows his face at a convention that I know one of these furs is at, I will be calling the FBI, and we'll be rid of him for a while.

: Winged

::Do you have links to scans of these court orders, or physical copies of them? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:16, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: The order of protection that was gotten by myself against Ross Reddick was served by publication, and became effective on April 13th, 2005, for a period of one year. It was then personally served on Mr. Reddick on May 8th, 2005 by Officer K. Boyd of the Tukwila Police Department at Southcenter Mall in Washington State. It is actually expiring on April 13th, 2006. The service by publication was done due to his evasion of process service. The reason for service by publication is not to have him arrested from his lack of knowledge from the order, it is to keep the petitioner from having to go to court multiple times to get the temporary ex-parte order renewed over and over again due to the respondant's evasive conduct.

:::Per [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.14.115 RCW 10.14.115], if he had contacted me or otherwise violated the order between April 13th and May 8th of 2005, he would not have been in violation of the order, unless he stated that he was an avid reader of legal notices in the King County Journal (which was the newspaper of legal notice record in the county). After that point, if he violated the terms, he is subject to arrest and contempt of court citation by the district court up here.

:::Anti-Harassment Orders are no less "binding" on the respondent than other forms of protection orders, it's just that violations of a Washington State anti-harassment order is a gross misdemeanor rather than a felony, as far as violations in the state of Washington goes. It could be felony level as far as other states depending on their laws of recognition of such orders from other states and how they translate into their matrix of orders of protection and punishments for violations of such, and federal law also has it's hand in it as well (going across state lines to violate orders of protection is a federal felony offense).

:::States have various different kinds of names for orders of protection, and different punishment levels for violations of such. Oregon's equivalent to Washington State's Anti-Harassment Orders are called "Stalking Protection Orders". The terms "Restraining Order" and "Order of Protection" should be assumed to be general terms encompassing the whole spectrum of such kinds of orders, because every state is different, and as was proven by Further Confusion, corporations can get orders of protection as well against individuals as well, at least in California. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Revert of questionable content ==

I reverted out the following edit to the History section, 20 March 2002:
:''Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown portland to blow the cash at a gay strip club called the Silverado. After blowing the money at the bar, getting drunk and buying drinks for everyone in the bar he drove to Camas, Washington with one of the strippers in the bar. At approximately 7a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges).''
It sounds questionable, it certainly isn't NPOV, and even if it's true, it strikes me as inflammatory and irrelevant detail, something I don't think WikiFur wants to get into. Fell free to discuss and decide if it should be restored.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 17:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:While I disagree in part with how the information was ''presented'', I do believe it is more than plausible given his other actions. If we're describing Sibe's character here, how he spent the money is relevant. I would feel uncomfortable about naming the dancer who went with him, but fortunately this did not come up. The terms of the writing were not NPOV - I have adjusted this. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:43, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

===Questionable links===
An Anonymous user has added information to the article under history and external links which leads to a site that, according to the "new" information in the article, contains a .torrent file which in itself allows a Bit Torrent user to download about 9GB of copyrighted material like that from Sexyfur among other sites. The same changes in the article suggest that Sibe had been banned from LJ because he refused to remove that link from his journal. If that much is true and the supporting evidence is correct, then it may be wise to remove the potentially illegal link(s) from the page to avoid any potential legal trouble. At this time, I have done so, though leaving the "written" email links in place. I would personally think that linking to a page that itself links to a potentially illegal pirated collection of pictures is an unsafe thing to do on this wiki. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Edit: On second thought, after reading the emails themselves, I find them a little dubious. They hold the real names and email addresses as well as phone numbers of a certain person, and if they are real, the people in question probably wouldn't want to be flooded with calls from heaven only knows how many people. The links so far are found on the thepiratebay website and are called "rabbit_mail", "rabbit_resp", and "rabbit_mail2" respectively and in order. I find them dubious though and probably the entire tracker system of the site may reflect its name, I won't care either way. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I'm unsure about this myself. I don't doubt that the emails are valid - actually I think they show [[Rabbit Valley]] in a fairly good light, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were fake.

:I did like the reference to [[PafCon]]:
Hope to see you at the annually furry-convention in Las Vegas! Our whole staff
will be going as the cast from the movie "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey"
:I don't think it's worth worrying about too much, though. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:19, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Exclusion ==

Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Please regard this as the official request for exclusion. [[User:Sibe|Sibe]]

:Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. A written request on a Wikifurry page without proper verification is not a valid form of request. As your IP indicates prior vandalism of Wikifurry entries, we have no way to confirm that you are "Ross H. Reddick," (Sibe.) Please refer to the first suggestion for proper exclusion. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:16, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::"Negative /r/ removal" is not a valid address. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:21, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I've temporarily protected the entry until the exclusion request is verified as actually being from Sibe by an [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]. Play by the rules, and we'll be happy to accomodate your request. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 20:12, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::I've been on the Wiki long enough and I consider myself to be friends with Greenreaper. I know I'm not an administrator, but I can verify that's Sibe. Trust me? :/ --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 20:51, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::This is a removal request from Sibe. The question is, do we accept it?

::[[WikiFur:Personal information]] has always had an important cavaet - ''at the discretion of the WikiFur administration''. To be blunt, out of all articles on WikiFur, this is the one I was thinking of most when I wrote that.

::Many people feel strongly about Sibe. He appears to have done things that, frankly, pissed off a lot of people in the furry fandom, and he has (to my knowledge) shown little to no remorse for those actions. He does not respect the copyright of artists, to the extent that he has actually been tried and convicted for distributing their artwork. His article at WikiFur reflects that.

::Ultimately, the exclusion of articles about people at their request is done out of mutual respect. But is this enough for us to justify denying his request? Is it better for the fandom for it to stay? Should we be willing to remove some information but not other information? What are your thoughts? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:53, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::We ought to respect anyone's removal request, even if personally we don't agree with it. Although I hope with Sibe's approval that an article more acceptable to all could be written. For instance, speculation on which conventions one has been banned from isn't appropriate for anyone's article. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 21:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, personal information protection is something we have not faulted at yet, even for people like [[Random]] and [[Squee rat.]] So, as long if he request it '''personally''' (A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one,) with a real e-mail, that verifies it originated from him ("Ross Redick",) would have to be respected. In other words, he himself, and not hiding behind a "rent-a-email," avatar, or other type of obfuscating device, must ask the administrators in the open.

::::If removed, his "deeds" information can be incorporated into appropriate articles without mentioning this individual. Just my 2 cents. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:13, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered. I was talking to him on AIM. And if you keep adding on to these rules of what Sibe can and cannot do, then he'll have no way of sending an email to anyone. Just revert the damn page, it is him for crying out loud.

:::::And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay? --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 21:22, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::Random's name was removed because it [[Talk:Random|had no particular relevance]] to the rest of the information presented in the article. Squee Rat has (as far as I know) left the fandom. Sibe remains within the fandom; whether his name is required is a valid topic of debate, and is one of the items of information that might reasonably be removed without removing the whole article. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:38, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::::"He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered....And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay?." If you referring to "(A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one)," that was a generic phrase, not directed at you... As in ("A request from Ross' third cousin's PT teacher's gardener's son in law's nephew's drunk girlfriend in his behalf is no a valid one,")... >.< [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::::This isnt really a talk about exclusion, this is just a way that GreenReaper can lock the article, and make it seem like hes not being unfair. However, he really is. I hope I get to meet him in person someday, I would love to talk with him personally about my displeasure with his actions. -Sibe

::::::::This discussion is a method for deciding how we handle this sort of situation now and in the future. Someone has to be the test case, just as a certain person other was for the removal of names in "unrelated" articles where they were not central to the article. I won't just keep removing articles about noted people in the community without assurance that this is, in fact, the thing that the WikiFur community wishes. So far it seems I was right to worry, as there's no obvious consensus - some people think you should be excluded, and some do not, and there has not been much of an attempt at reconciling those positions by pinning down a middle ground.

::::::::I (or another administrator) will unlock the article '''when''' there is agreement on what is to be done. If anyone wishes to propose an alternate version that would be better, than they are free to make a subpage that contains a modified copy of the article. If they favour the removal of such protection from other pages as a result then perhaps examples of the pages that would be placed on these unexcluded pages would be appropriate as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:No new rules for Ross Reddick are being applied for exclusion. [[Random]] and [[Squeerat]] did it by the book (personal email, with their name on it, that could be verified or traced back.) He just need to do as much, that's all. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:27, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::No new rules ''are'' being applied. I have '''always''' considered the appropriateness of any particular exclusion request (and I hope others have, too). In this case I am unsure of the consensus of the community, so I have opened this up for general discussion. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:34, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
:::Please just respect my request to remove the article.
-Sibe

:I should point out that several times I think the 'Sibe' article has been used as a bench mark for what's private and what's public. This discussion on [[Talk:Uncle Kage]] being one. People have to think where the line on public/private info has to be drawn on this wiki and this looks as though it may be where we have to decide. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I am still undecided on this article. I think however that the second paragraph is in serious need of a rewrite in the interim. It is not apppropriate to speculate on what conventions he ''may'' have been banned from. Only the facts should be present in the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:17, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I feel strongly that this article does not qualify for exclusion. Just as a famous person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies. Moreover, I feel that the exclusion of "famous" members of the fandom would be highly detrimental to the goals of WikiFur. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I second what Duncan said. Could be my own words. [[User:Somewolf|somewolf]] 15:08, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:By now, I don't even think it was even Sibe itself, at least asking "directly," to be removed. I still say "Aye." If we apply this standard because he is well "Know," I would vote revoke the protection on "SqueeRat," because, even though she is now old news, the person with that alias did cause a fair amount of commotion, akin to Sibe's actions today, during her time (Same goes for "Random,"...) In other words, why are we excluding these "famous" people's aliases, but we seem to want to throw the rules out for "Sibe"?. Just two cents more [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 18:42, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::Honestly? I don't much agree with excluding Squee Rat or Random, either, for much the same reasons. Now, that is not to say that they don't have a right to privacy - no real names need be included. I think we need to draw a line where a person's actions affect others; '''THAT''' is the information we need to retain. This provides context for where furry fandom is today. Why is alt.fan.furry regarded by many with scorn? Why do some agree with Burned Furs, but not with their methodology? I think that having the participation of these people included in the tapestry of the fandom's history is an important key to answering those questions. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:52, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::In other words, exclude ALL personal information, leave the Aliased person in. If that is possible (for ALL aliases,) then I would vote "Aye" on the matter. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 19:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I have trouble with excluding '''most''' people who have been exceedingly relevant or well-known among furries in their time, even if they did make personal requests. Reducing or removing some personal information is less of a dilemma for me. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 09:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::I believe Sibe is working on a rewrite that does not have the personal information that concerns him. Once we see what he wishes the article to look like, we can perhaps go from there. I would like this issue to be sorted soon - it's been a while. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:09, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::''9/10 September 2005: "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph "As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrent on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested, announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at Nexxus, and ends it by '''professing his love for his family''''', not. The last words in that post were "And now for some lulz:" followed by political satire --[[User:64.216.176.120|64.216.176.120]] 07:23, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The paragraph tries to describe the "gist" of the post, not trying to quote it verbatim. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:57, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Final Vote on the matter? ==

My two cents. The private information of Furs, Non-Furs, and/or Anti-Furs should be protected above all on this Wiki. If Ross Reddick (the real one), or any verified source, wishes such personal information to be taken out, we simply honor it,... '''but'''...

'''Aliases''' ("Fursonas," "Characters," etc) are another matter all together. Sibe, Random, SqueeRat... they have had the too much of an impact in the history of the fandom to be "sanitized" out. Suggestion? (IMHO only): Strip any personal information out, restore the information under these aliases back in their open entries (Even then, we should do the restoration with a "case by case" system.)

('''Notice''': This post '''does not''' represent the official view of [[WikiFur]] on this matter. This is a '''personal''' opinion piece.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:30, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Agreeing about personas ==

I'm going to have to add my input here.. We should be diligent about protecting furs who don't want their real-life information here, but at the same time, avatars and characters and such shouldn't receive as much protection, especially in situations where that avatar is "famous" in the fandom.

Since we are an encyclopedia, it is our duty to have articles on those who are "famous" within the fandom. Famous people in the fandom should be treated much like celebrities are in real-life; information about their characters and what they've done to become famous should be fair game on wikifur.

I do agree with removing Sibe's real name and location from his article if he wishes, though. Despite Sibe's antics, it's only fair to give him the same protection we give others. --[[User:Zorin|Zorin]] 16:33, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:I would disagree in this specific case. In situations such as Squee Rat or Random or Stukafox where their real names and locations are pretty much irrelevent I'm OK with leaving that information out. In the unique case of Sibe, though, his real name and location are very much a matter of public record (and court records, copies of which are linked from this article), I do not think that there is much point in omitting them.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:26, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Restraining order ==

I think date of that order is incorrect. It says 13 September 2005, but [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/6fc21e1f63065875 this] suggests it was much closer to the convention. I'm altering it to 13 January 2006 instead.

I also find it odd that ''[[AAE]]'' managed to get an ex parte restraining order. My understanding of the law (and it is a very bad understanding) was you can only get those on a personal basis. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

:As I pointed out above in the restraining order section of the discussion page, every state has different laws and rules in regards to orders of protection. California is one of the states that allows corporations to get orders of protection. I believe Washington State does as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== 2006 Arrest ==

I did a one word correction on the page. He was "booked" by Multnomah County, not arrested by them. [http://www.portlandonline.com/police/?&c=29708 Portland Police Bureau] had jurisdiction over the place where he was arrested.

Evil Sibe

2006-02-11T19:09:53Z

Gray Coyote: /* Controversy */

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-02-11T19:04:40Z

Gray Coyote: /* Restraining order */

== Attention, Regarding link to Criminal record ==
The link has been approved as allowed information in regards all privacy laws, public information laws and terms of services for all websites involved. Please see [[User_talk:Nidonocu#Personal_contact_information.3F]] for the discussion regarding this. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 00:06, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Numerous edits have been made to this page since the annoucement of WikiFur. These edits removed information from the page, and so were reverted. When I made the page, I tried to stick to the facts. So far, there has been no debate over them, but there is debate about whether or not they set Sibe in a fair light. There is also debate over whether his real name should be on this page.

Here is a log of a chat on the Wikicities debating this topic, mostly between myself, [[User:Offline|Offline]], and [[User:Markus|Markus]]:

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(GreenReaper): Anyway, questions?
(Offline): I do have a question. now this is not ment to cause harm in anyway. But why is the option to edit the sibe entry not there anymore?
(Offline): It really looks as if it's violating the ToS. and whit it being so one-sided, People can't even edit it to add good things.
(GreenReaper): I removed the option to edit the sibe article because it had been the target of numerous deletions and alterations, both by people who seemed to support him and seemed not to. None of them was particularly factual or neutral
(Offline): Ahhh.
(GreenReaper): Well, see http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=678&oldid=621
(Offline): still however, it really makes him out to be a really bad guy. Now, I'm not a huge supporter of sibe, or am i even a supporter of the fandom. but it does include his real name.
(Offline): And since it does include his real name, it's more of an attack on his actual person rather than his made up character.
(GreenReaper): So are you saying that the information on there is incorrect? I don't know him personally, but I looked around, and from what I could see, he really *was* a bad guy.
(GreenReaper): I have tried to include information that I found that puts him in a more positive light, like the Conifur 2004 visit
(GreenReaper): but frankly, the balance of evidence shows that he has on numerous occasions caused trouble to many people in the furry fandom.
(GreenReaper): If you have evidence showing that he is, in fact, the savior of mankind, I invite you to post it on the discussion page (as I think I mentioned in user talk)
(GreenReaper): if it checks out as a factual source, it goes in.
(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not. I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated. the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.
* GreenReaper nods.
(Offline): if a link happens to have his real name in it, then whatever. however, the name "Ross Reddick" should be removed from the top of the page there.
(GreenReaper): I am for the separation of real life and the furry fandom where desired, in most circumstances. However in this particular case there is a reason that overrides that, and that reason is that he has demonstrably been a danger to at least one person, caused trouble to many, and may be in the future.
(GreenReaper): Putting the name means it's less likely he can just change his nickname and cause trouble.
(Offline): I know there are many furrys out there who would not like to have their real name posted. I figure it's more respect than anything else. they would rather be known as their "character". Am I right?
(GreenReaper): For example, if he registers at AC 2006 under the name "niceguy", who's to know?
(GreenReaper): You're right. It's in the Category:People page. I wrote it myself. In this case, I feel there is a demonstrable need for his real name to be there.
(Offline): So it is one sided then?
(GreenReaper): People should not be able to escape their actions of such severity as demonstrated by the links currently there just by changing a nickname. To allow that is a problem.
(Offline): Some furs can have the respect of not getting their real name posted. but others due to past actions do not get the same respect.
(GreenReaper): Hmm? It has all the sides I found. Again, if there is a different side, please tell me of it.
(GreenReaper): With all due respect, some furs did not assualt other furs and then steal their cars. :-)
(Offline): that may be true. look at it from his side though.
(GreenReaper): Well, what I'd do if I were him would be to ensure that good things about me got into there, so it *didn't* make me look like someone not to associate with
(GreenReaper): and hopefully, that's the effect it will have. I'm not *that* hopeful, but I'm an optimist.
(GreenReaper): the fact that he managed to attend a convention in 2004 without actually being thrown out is a start on that.
(Offline): I'm sorry. I still think it's wrong to do this to one guy just because he is a fuck-up.
(GreenReaper): The lyrics "you do it to yourself, you do, you and no-one else" come to mind . . . but, if you think that, then do place that discussion on the user talk page.
(GreenReaper): In fact, I could place this entire log on there, if you think it would encourage discussion.
(GreenReaper): If the balance of opinion of people who have contributed well to this wiki is that his real name should be removed, then I will.
(Offline): Thats fine with me.
(Offline): However, I don't see it helping out much since this is Sibe were talking about.
(GreenReaper): Well, yes . . . and that is the point. :-)
(Offline): And I know that the vast majority of the community dislikes this guy very much.
(Offline): But even though you posted the Name rule there, you feel it's right to break it as *you?* see fit.
(GreenReaper): Yes, pretty much.
(GreenReaper): the "probably not a good idea" bit means it's a guideline
(GreenReaper): but even if I'd said it as an absolute rule at the time, I'd feel OK about breaking it if I thought it was right.
(Offline): There are alot of furs out there that I don't like, and there are furs I do like. Either way, no matter if there bad or good, I would give them the respect of keeping their name off this site.
(GreenReaper): Then I thank you. I would again say that in general, it is an excellent guideline to follow. The trouble is where people's online personas and their real life characters have significant overlap.
(GreenReaper): When Sibe tries to go to a convention to which he is banned, one way to at least try to prevent that is to stop people registering using ID with the name Ross Reddick.
(Offline): However, I'm quite sure that all the furry conventions know who this guy is. He does appear to be a widly known furry.
(Offline): I don't think that posting his real name is going to affect the furry conventions.
(Offline): At least, not anymore.
(Ruby_M): Hmm.
*** Ruby_M is now known as Mark_McCloud
(GreenReaper): Probably not. Let's consider the situation where someone new to the fandom comes around. Maybe they got involved with Sibe, only they don't know that since he uses a nickname - but he can't avoid being known as Ross in real life. Should they be able to find his past?
(GreenReaper): *uses a different nickname
(GreenReaper): I would say that, for their safety, they should.
(GreenReaper): If they decide to continue associating with him, it's their call.
(Mark_McCloud): Nice ta see ya Offie.
(GreenReaper): My main concern is that the information on that page is a fair representation. If it is that, then my conscience is clear. If it is not, that needs fixing.
(GreenReaper): The edits made previously did not offer new information that showed him in a better (or worse) light than the current information, and they removed existing information, so they were reverted, and as that continued, I decided to protect the page.
(Mark_McCloud): I myself had to defend a page that has been attacted a few times. The main page.
(Mark_McCloud): Some people..
(Offline): If a new furry were to join the fandom, I think it would be best if they made friends on their own, and not told how they should and shouldn't be friends with.
(Mark_McCloud): The page for Sibe is as neutral as can be. Saying he "smoked a bowl" is not fact in the way it was expressed, but a speculation or guess..
(Mark_McCloud): in any case.. I need to sleep.. I'll be checking for troll edits later after I get sleep.
* Mark_McCloud flopps and snores.
(JasonR): Really, His real name is only one click away from the Sibe page anyway (in the criminal record).
(Offline): I'm only asking that his real name be removed form the top of the page out of respect. Sure, he might not be the greatest person around, but I still feel it's wrong
(GreenReaper): Fair enough. That is your opinon, as the above is mine. Such opinions should be placed on the user talk page, where they can be debated. But consider: if most of those in the furry fandom have a bad opinion of him, any new member of the fandom would be quite likely to have the same reaction on hearing what he has done, and continued to do. And I think they should.
(Offline): Alright then. Thank you for listning to what I had to say.
(GreenReaper): I have respect for most people. But respect itself is a measure of opinion. The level of respect drops when the actions are not commesurate with that. Or, more simply: He's done a lot of bad things. The respect I feel I and others owe him as a human being is outweighed by them.
(GreenReaper): Things like "please don't come to a convention when you're not wanted" are based on mutual. If it is not returned, then eventually people stop giving it.
(GreenReaper): *based on mutual respect
(GreenReaper): I shall post this log on the talk page. I shall also post a note directing users there so that they may debate the protection.
(Offline): Thats cool. Thank you for at least considering it and opening it up for disscusion.
(GreenReaper): That is what a wiki is all about. :-)
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If you are a visitor to this page, your opinion on whether or not it is appropriate for Sibe's real name to be on the page would be welcome below. Also, any further reliable sources of information that you have could be useful. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:46, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== "Sold" pirated art? ==

I know that he's distributed and torrented various copyrighted works, such as Genus Male and a bunch of art sites such as "SexyFur," but where's the proof that he's actually ''sold'' the pirated artwork? I've never heard of that up until now.

Granted I hope this proof doesn't come from word-of-mouth. It seems that whenever Sibe is discussed, McCarthyism suddenly goes into full-effect and people try to one-up each other on what they've heard from the grapevine about $$DA EVIL HUSKEE$$. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:That's fair enough. I can't immediately see evidence for this in the sources, and none were marked as showng that, so I've changed it to "distributing" rather than "offering for sale". Thanks for helping make this article better! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:55, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::Oh it's no problem. Is there any chance of also getting a commentary on the scapegoating that occurs due to his infamy? Such as if anyone attacks a channel anywhere, or if something happens to anything furry related, the immidiate response is "it was Sibe!"? Not trying to portray him in a better light, because hey, the record's there (at least at the bottom of the page under "criminal record"), but just trying to add more information as to what happens with this dude. --[[User:Verix|Verix]]

:::Sure, if you can provide some evidence of it . . . for example, if there are newsgroup or forum posts of it occurring. I've not seen it myself, so I don't know.

:::Of course, you should be make sure that it's not '''really''' Sibe behind it all. He can be tricksy, that husky. Like a fox, only grayer! ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:24, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Oh of course. I know of one specifically that happened on FurNet in a channel called #dragonyiff. A bunch of furries (and some Something Awful goons, I think) with the idea to just flood a channel came in, then stopped when the channel was set to "mute." After the flood stopped, one of the few responses was that it was Sibe's doing. That's just one example. I'm not quite sure if it's incredibly apparent, though, but I'll be sure to try and remember more situations that've happened. [[User:Verix|Verix]] 03:45, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::: I never sold pirated art. Thats a blatent lie.

== Hard Evidence ==

Since people were looking for factual information regarding Sibe, I have provided the admins of this site with the actual photocopy scans (in PDF form) of Sibe's criminal record and other related litigation records.

On a note for some of the more privacy minded people who have commented on this disccussion. This information is freely available through the [[Wikipedia:Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)|Freedom of Information Act of 1966]] and through the Privacy Act of 1974. Posting said information in a public forum or other press type format, such as this site, as a part of the [[Sibe]] article to present real and hard evidence of this person in question, is an activity which is specifically protected by the Constitution's first amendment and these two acts. Contrary to what some people have mentioned above, the posting of such information can not be legally constituted as slander because the name "Sibe" is considered a criminal alias for the purposes of identifying Mr. Ross Reddick, and because all information pertaining to such activities within his criminal record is factual. Slander must include some element of falsehood which is designed to ruin a person. Facts and truth are not slander no matter how unflattering they are. Additionally, since this information is directly pertinent to the furry community, it would be unfair in the interests of truth and neutrality to withhold or censor it. The facts should be allowed to speak for themselves, if they paint the person in a bad light then it falls upon the person in question to rectify their own actions.

Finally, if you are interested in more information about Mr. Reddick, then I suggest contacting the FBI and requesting a copy of his FBI file (Yes, one exists and is rather lengthy); contacting one of the groups whom is in currently in litigation with him, like [[Rabbit Valley Press]] or [[FurNation Press]]; or contacting the state/county that said litigation is under teh jurisdiction of.

--[[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 03:59, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Huh? Slander? Who mentioned anything about slander? Or am I just being lazy and not seeing mentions of it in that huge chatlog above or in the discussion I had with Green? -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:00, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Slander is an inference to what [[User:Offline|Offline]] was referring to with regards to the use of [[Sibe]]'s real name.

(Offline): Well, i'm not saying that the information is correct or not.
I'm actually not to sure myself. It's just the simple fact that
it carrys his real name. I would think it better if that were deleated.
the name "sibe" refers to a fictional character in my opinion. since
furrys tend to make up chartoon characters, and should not reflect
their real lives.
(Offline): Thats all i'm getting at.

* Slander ≠ Libel. Sillies.

For the purposes of this discussion, what the law has to say about the name "Sibe" is that it's not a fictional character but a criminal alias of a real person. The use of his real name might be considered slanderous or an invasion of privacy if not for the FOIA. -- [[User:Chronocoon|Chronocoon]] 06:25, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Ahh. Okay, I figured it was my ADD. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Verix|Verix]] 05:21, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, just an FYI after thought clarification on what I wrote as well: From the point of view of the law, there is a marked difference between an '''''Alias''''', and a '''''Fictional Name'''''. A fictional name is only used to refer to something which does not exist. However, a fictional name ceases being so when it is used to refer to a real person. This name association turns it into an alias, and aliases are '''not''' granted any legal right to privacy. The rationalle for placing aliases on public record and offering them no protection of privacy is to prevent the use of false or alternative names to commit acts of fraud. It is for this the very reason that a legal name change requires a court hearing in most states and one must swear under oath in front of a judge that the name change is not to defraud anyone or to commit future acts of fraud. If aliases were not covered like this, it would present an exploitable loop hole to commit fraud. Additionally, according to the law, the real world does not cease to exist just because someone's actions occur in some intangible virtual space such as IRC or Second Life. The person in the real world sitting behind the computer can be and often is held legally accountable for their actions, wether they be under a "fictional character name" or their real name. So, in closing, regardless of one's opinion on this, whether in agreement or not, it is important to understand that this precident is the one which is currently upheld within the United States judicial system. That's something to chew on and consider as a whole with regard to the whole 'name' rule for this site.

:I should point out that various furs do have valid, legitimate court orders of protection against Mr. Reddick. These furs do go to conventions, and the stipulations of several of their protection orders include "if Mr. Reddick is at the same location as the plaintiff, Mr. Reddick must leave."

: I should also point out (Sibe) that "various" furs do not have valid, legitimate anti-harassment orders against Mr. Reddick. The only one who does is Grey Fox Of Winter , AKA Loki Grey Coyote, aka Lonnie Wilson. That is the only "protection order" that has ever been served my person on a furrys behalf. The way Lonnie got this order was I emailed him, he responded with do not contact me anymore. Then I replied to that with "Why are you so mean?" He used that email discussion as grounds to get his anti-harassment order (less binding then a restraining order). The order will expire Feburary 2006. -Sibe

There's also an interesting interstate aspect of things: if a court order of protection is violated across or while across state lines, it carries 5+ years of jail time in a federal prison, minimum sentence.

Thus, if Mr. Reddick shows his face at a convention that I know one of these furs is at, I will be calling the FBI, and we'll be rid of him for a while.

: Winged

::Do you have links to scans of these court orders, or physical copies of them? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:16, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: The order of protection that was gotten by myself against Ross Reddick was served by publication, and became effective on April 13th, 2005, for a period of one year. It was then personally served on Mr. Reddick on May 8th, 2005 by Officer K. Boyd of the Tukwila Police Department at Southcenter Mall in Washington State. It is actually expiring on April 13th, 2006. The service by publication was done due to his evasion of process service. The reason for service by publication is not to have him arrested from his lack of knowledge from the order, it is to keep the petitioner from having to go to court multiple times to get the temporary ex-parte order renewed over and over again due to the respondant's evasive conduct.

:::Per [http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.14.115 RCW 10.14.115], if he had contacted me or otherwise violated the order between April 13th and May 8th of 2005, he would not have been in violation of the order, unless he stated that he was an avid reader of legal notices in the King County Journal (which was the newspaper of legal notice record in the county). After that point, if he violated the terms, he is subject to arrest and contempt of court citation by the district court up here.

:::Anti-Harassment Orders are no less "binding" on the respondent than other forms of protection orders, it's just that violations of a Washington State anti-harassment order is a gross misdemeanor rather than a felony, as far as violations in the state of Washington goes. It could be felony level as far as other states depending on their laws of recognition of such orders from other states and how they translate into their matrix of orders of protection and punishments for violations of such, and federal law also has it's hand in it as well (going across state lines to violate orders of protection is a federal felony offense).

:::States have various different kinds of names for orders of protection, and different punishment levels for violations of such. Oregon's equivalent to Washington State's Anti-Harassment Orders are called "Stalking Protection Orders". The terms "Restraining Order" and "Order of Protection" should be assumed to be general terms encompassing the whole spectrum of such kinds of orders, because every state is different, and as was proven by Further Confusion, corporations can get orders of protection as well against individuals as well, at least in California. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Revert of questionable content ==

I reverted out the following edit to the History section, 20 March 2002:
:''Having taken $500 from the account, Sibe went to downtown portland to blow the cash at a gay strip club called the Silverado. After blowing the money at the bar, getting drunk and buying drinks for everyone in the bar he drove to Camas, Washington with one of the strippers in the bar. At approximately 7a.m. he was arrested for the theft of the automobile (among other charges).''
It sounds questionable, it certainly isn't NPOV, and even if it's true, it strikes me as inflammatory and irrelevant detail, something I don't think WikiFur wants to get into. Fell free to discuss and decide if it should be restored.
--[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 17:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:While I disagree in part with how the information was ''presented'', I do believe it is more than plausible given his other actions. If we're describing Sibe's character here, how he spent the money is relevant. I would feel uncomfortable about naming the dancer who went with him, but fortunately this did not come up. The terms of the writing were not NPOV - I have adjusted this. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:43, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

===Questionable links===
An Anonymous user has added information to the article under history and external links which leads to a site that, according to the "new" information in the article, contains a .torrent file which in itself allows a Bit Torrent user to download about 9GB of copyrighted material like that from Sexyfur among other sites. The same changes in the article suggest that Sibe had been banned from LJ because he refused to remove that link from his journal. If that much is true and the supporting evidence is correct, then it may be wise to remove the potentially illegal link(s) from the page to avoid any potential legal trouble. At this time, I have done so, though leaving the "written" email links in place. I would personally think that linking to a page that itself links to a potentially illegal pirated collection of pictures is an unsafe thing to do on this wiki. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Edit: On second thought, after reading the emails themselves, I find them a little dubious. They hold the real names and email addresses as well as phone numbers of a certain person, and if they are real, the people in question probably wouldn't want to be flooded with calls from heaven only knows how many people. The links so far are found on the thepiratebay website and are called "rabbit_mail", "rabbit_resp", and "rabbit_mail2" respectively and in order. I find them dubious though and probably the entire tracker system of the site may reflect its name, I won't care either way. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 12:42, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I'm unsure about this myself. I don't doubt that the emails are valid - actually I think they show [[Rabbit Valley]] in a fairly good light, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were fake.

:I did like the reference to [[PafCon]]:
Hope to see you at the annually furry-convention in Las Vegas! Our whole staff
will be going as the cast from the movie "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey"
:I don't think it's worth worrying about too much, though. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:19, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Exclusion ==

Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Please regard this as the official request for exclusion. [[User:Sibe|Sibe]]

:Please send a valid, verifiable, e-mail request to one of the Wikifurry administrators. The request for exclusion must be made by the person the entry appertains to. A written request on a Wikifurry page without proper verification is not a valid form of request. As your IP indicates prior vandalism of Wikifurry entries, we have no way to confirm that you are "Ross H. Reddick," (Sibe.) Please refer to the first suggestion for proper exclusion. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:16, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::"Negative /r/ removal" is not a valid address. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:21, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I've temporarily protected the entry until the exclusion request is verified as actually being from Sibe by an [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]. Play by the rules, and we'll be happy to accomodate your request. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 20:12, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::I've been on the Wiki long enough and I consider myself to be friends with Greenreaper. I know I'm not an administrator, but I can verify that's Sibe. Trust me? :/ --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 20:51, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::This is a removal request from Sibe. The question is, do we accept it?

::[[WikiFur:Personal information]] has always had an important cavaet - ''at the discretion of the WikiFur administration''. To be blunt, out of all articles on WikiFur, this is the one I was thinking of most when I wrote that.

::Many people feel strongly about Sibe. He appears to have done things that, frankly, pissed off a lot of people in the furry fandom, and he has (to my knowledge) shown little to no remorse for those actions. He does not respect the copyright of artists, to the extent that he has actually been tried and convicted for distributing their artwork. His article at WikiFur reflects that.

::Ultimately, the exclusion of articles about people at their request is done out of mutual respect. But is this enough for us to justify denying his request? Is it better for the fandom for it to stay? Should we be willing to remove some information but not other information? What are your thoughts? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:53, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::We ought to respect anyone's removal request, even if personally we don't agree with it. Although I hope with Sibe's approval that an article more acceptable to all could be written. For instance, speculation on which conventions one has been banned from isn't appropriate for anyone's article. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 21:10, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, personal information protection is something we have not faulted at yet, even for people like [[Random]] and [[Squee rat.]] So, as long if he request it '''personally''' (A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one,) with a real e-mail, that verifies it originated from him ("Ross Redick",) would have to be respected. In other words, he himself, and not hiding behind a "rent-a-email," avatar, or other type of obfuscating device, must ask the administrators in the open.

::::If removed, his "deeds" information can be incorporated into appropriate articles without mentioning this individual. Just my 2 cents. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:13, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered. I was talking to him on AIM. And if you keep adding on to these rules of what Sibe can and cannot do, then he'll have no way of sending an email to anyone. Just revert the damn page, it is him for crying out loud.

:::::And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay? --{{User:Skunk/sig}} 21:22, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::Random's name was removed because it [[Talk:Random|had no particular relevance]] to the rest of the information presented in the article. Squee Rat has (as far as I know) left the fandom. Sibe remains within the fandom; whether his name is required is a valid topic of debate, and is one of the items of information that might reasonably be removed without removing the whole article. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:38, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::::::"He didn't ASK me to. I volunteered....And if you got a problem with me, just come out and say, okay?." If you referring to "(A "friends" request in his behalf is no a valid one)," that was a generic phrase, not directed at you... As in ("A request from Ross' third cousin's PT teacher's gardener's son in law's nephew's drunk girlfriend in his behalf is no a valid one,")... >.< [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::::::This isnt really a talk about exclusion, this is just a way that GreenReaper can lock the article, and make it seem like hes not being unfair. However, he really is. I hope I get to meet him in person someday, I would love to talk with him personally about my displeasure with his actions. -Sibe

::::::::This discussion is a method for deciding how we handle this sort of situation now and in the future. Someone has to be the test case, just as a certain person other was for the removal of names in "unrelated" articles where they were not central to the article. I won't just keep removing articles about noted people in the community without assurance that this is, in fact, the thing that the WikiFur community wishes. So far it seems I was right to worry, as there's no obvious consensus - some people think you should be excluded, and some do not, and there has not been much of an attempt at reconciling those positions by pinning down a middle ground.

::::::::I (or another administrator) will unlock the article '''when''' there is agreement on what is to be done. If anyone wishes to propose an alternate version that would be better, than they are free to make a subpage that contains a modified copy of the article. If they favour the removal of such protection from other pages as a result then perhaps examples of the pages that would be placed on these unexcluded pages would be appropriate as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:No new rules for Ross Reddick are being applied for exclusion. [[Random]] and [[Squeerat]] did it by the book (personal email, with their name on it, that could be verified or traced back.) He just need to do as much, that's all. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 21:27, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::No new rules ''are'' being applied. I have '''always''' considered the appropriateness of any particular exclusion request (and I hope others have, too). In this case I am unsure of the consensus of the community, so I have opened this up for general discussion. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:34, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC)
:::Please just respect my request to remove the article.
-Sibe

:I should point out that several times I think the 'Sibe' article has been used as a bench mark for what's private and what's public. This discussion on [[Talk:Uncle Kage]] being one. People have to think where the line on public/private info has to be drawn on this wiki and this looks as though it may be where we have to decide. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 05:13, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I am still undecided on this article. I think however that the second paragraph is in serious need of a rewrite in the interim. It is not apppropriate to speculate on what conventions he ''may'' have been banned from. Only the facts should be present in the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:17, 23 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I feel strongly that this article does not qualify for exclusion. Just as a famous person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies. Moreover, I feel that the exclusion of "famous" members of the fandom would be highly detrimental to the goals of WikiFur. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I second what Duncan said. Could be my own words. [[User:Somewolf|somewolf]] 15:08, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:By now, I don't even think it was even Sibe itself, at least asking "directly," to be removed. I still say "Aye." If we apply this standard because he is well "Know," I would vote revoke the protection on "SqueeRat," because, even though she is now old news, the person with that alias did cause a fair amount of commotion, akin to Sibe's actions today, during her time (Same goes for "Random,"...) In other words, why are we excluding these "famous" people's aliases, but we seem to want to throw the rules out for "Sibe"?. Just two cents more [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 18:42, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

::Honestly? I don't much agree with excluding Squee Rat or Random, either, for much the same reasons. Now, that is not to say that they don't have a right to privacy - no real names need be included. I think we need to draw a line where a person's actions affect others; '''THAT''' is the information we need to retain. This provides context for where furry fandom is today. Why is alt.fan.furry regarded by many with scorn? Why do some agree with Burned Furs, but not with their methodology? I think that having the participation of these people included in the tapestry of the fandom's history is an important key to answering those questions. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:52, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:::In other words, exclude ALL personal information, leave the Aliased person in. If that is possible (for ALL aliases,) then I would vote "Aye" on the matter. [[User:63.204.227.202|63.204.227.202]] 19:28, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:I have trouble with excluding '''most''' people who have been exceedingly relevant or well-known among furries in their time, even if they did make personal requests. Reducing or removing some personal information is less of a dilemma for me. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 09:20, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::I believe Sibe is working on a rewrite that does not have the personal information that concerns him. Once we see what he wishes the article to look like, we can perhaps go from there. I would like this issue to be sorted soon - it's been a while. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:09, 7 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::''9/10 September 2005: "EvilSibe," with the opening paragraph "As of right now the Bellevue Police department is outside of my house serving a search warrent on my home, I cannot go anywhere and at any moment I could be arrested, announces the possibility of his possible imminent "arrest." In the post, he suggests that Rabco Publishing is behind this development, takes some jabs at Nexxus, and ends it by '''professing his love for his family''''', not. The last words in that post were "And now for some lulz:" followed by political satire --[[User:64.216.176.120|64.216.176.120]] 07:23, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::The paragraph tries to describe the "gist" of the post, not trying to quote it verbatim. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:57, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Final Vote on the matter? ==

My two cents. The private information of Furs, Non-Furs, and/or Anti-Furs should be protected above all on this Wiki. If Ross Reddick (the real one), or any verified source, wishes such personal information to be taken out, we simply honor it,... '''but'''...

'''Aliases''' ("Fursonas," "Characters," etc) are another matter all together. Sibe, Random, SqueeRat... they have had the too much of an impact in the history of the fandom to be "sanitized" out. Suggestion? (IMHO only): Strip any personal information out, restore the information under these aliases back in their open entries (Even then, we should do the restoration with a "case by case" system.)

('''Notice''': This post '''does not''' represent the official view of [[WikiFur]] on this matter. This is a '''personal''' opinion piece.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:30, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Agreeing about personas ==

I'm going to have to add my input here.. We should be diligent about protecting furs who don't want their real-life information here, but at the same time, avatars and characters and such shouldn't receive as much protection, especially in situations where that avatar is "famous" in the fandom.

Since we are an encyclopedia, it is our duty to have articles on those who are "famous" within the fandom. Famous people in the fandom should be treated much like celebrities are in real-life; information about their characters and what they've done to become famous should be fair game on wikifur.

I do agree with removing Sibe's real name and location from his article if he wishes, though. Despite Sibe's antics, it's only fair to give him the same protection we give others. --[[User:Zorin|Zorin]] 16:33, 8 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:I would disagree in this specific case. In situations such as Squee Rat or Random or Stukafox where their real names and locations are pretty much irrelevent I'm OK with leaving that information out. In the unique case of Sibe, though, his real name and location are very much a matter of public record (and court records, copies of which are linked from this article), I do not think that there is much point in omitting them.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:26, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Restraining order ==

I think date of that order is incorrect. It says 13 September 2005, but [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/6fc21e1f63065875 this] suggests it was much closer to the convention. I'm altering it to 13 January 2006 instead.

I also find it odd that ''[[AAE]]'' managed to get an ex parte restraining order. My understanding of the law (and it is a very bad understanding) was you can only get those on a personal basis. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

:As I pointed out above in the restraining order section of the discussion page, every state has different laws and rules in regards to orders of protection. California is one of the states that allows corporations to get orders of protection. I believe Washington State does as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure on that. -[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 19:00, 11 Feb 2006 (UTC)