WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Kindrift

2008-07-03T17:04:21Z

Downspin: supplied references

'''Kindrift''', also known as '''RailFox''', '''Raiya Daimonion''', and '''Downspin''', is an administrator of [[SporkMUCK]], formerly of [[RunaMUCK]], and is an editor and forum moderator at [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector]], and formerly of [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. He uses the login name '''RailFoxen''' on several sites.

== Character ==

Kindrift's original [[fursona]] was a [[kitsune]] (rather than a [[fox]]) with a [[Wikipedia:railgun|railgun]] fixation. He later changed to a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]] named Downspin.

== Furry involvement ==

Seen occasionally at the [[Dionysian Scream|D-Scream]] in years past, Kindrift was one of the early [[Postfurry|postfurries]], but parted with the community shortly before the creation of [[PuzzleboxMUCK]] in 2002. His involvement in the postfurry community may have been influenced by the [[wikipedia:Strogg|Strogg]], as the name RailFox is a [[Wikipedia:Quake II|Quake II]] reference.

=== Crush! Yiff! Destroy! ===
Kindrift was a forum moderator on [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] under the name RailFoxen until July 2006, when he decided to use the name Downspin online and spread the story that RailFoxen had been banned from CYD due to "a slight legal emergency", the precise details of which were never specified. Downspin assumed RailFoxen's duties as forum moderator immediately after RailFoxen's "banning",<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=downspin&start=0 '' RailFoxen? Downspin?''] - CYD forum thread on RailFoxen's "ban"</ref> and later changed his forum handle to Kindrift.

CYD administrator [[Mitch]] asserted<ref>[http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Chibiabos Mitch's comment on RailFoxen further non-involvement with CYD] on [[Chibiabos]]'s [[WikiFur]] user talk page</ref> that RailFoxen was no longer associated with CYD, but making an apparent newcomer to CYD such as Downspin a moderator immediately upon joining CYD casts doubt on the truth of this statement. CYD also published an article by RailFoxen on October 1, 2006, four months after he had ostensibly been banned.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/show/chi "Chibiabos: Distorted Prose"] - CYD article about Chibiabos by RailFoxen</ref>

Kindrift was finally banned from CYD in March 2008 after years of badmouthing Mitch.<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,91.msg606.html#msg606 What did Kinspin get banned from CYD for?] - Vivisector thread on Kahuki Lairu</ref> This was done shortly after Kindrift posted a screencap of [[Kahuki Lairu]]'s personal information from the Colorado Convicted Sex Offender Site. Mitch's response lead many to incorrectly believe that a rule about personal information had been broken.

== References ==
<references />

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Downspin}}
* [http://kindrift.livejournal.com/ ''Penetration''] - Kindrift's LiveJournal ([http://railfoxen.livejournal.com/ older version])
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Kindrift's] CYD profile
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=307 Railfoxen's] CYD profile

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Wizards]]
[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Skunk characters]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Vivisector (website)

2008-06-18T18:24:52Z

Downspin: updattu

[[Image:Vivisector logo.gif|right|Vivisector logo]]
''This article is about the website. For other uses, see [[Vivisector]].''

'''Vivisector''' is a webforum for [[furries]] and others to discuss news and philosophy about the furry subculture. It is intended to be a neutral and factual resource for the community and observers.

* '''Addresses''':
**'''Website''': http://www.vivisector.org/
**'''Forum''': http://forums.vivisector.org/
**'''IRC''': [irc://irc.esper.net/vivisector #vivisector] on [[Esper.net]]
* '''Founder''': ?
* '''Administrators''': [[Kindrift]], [[ProvincialTwit]], [[Computolio|rodox_video]]
* '''Ran from/to''': October 2007 - present
* '''Mascot''': [[Dr. Dos]]<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php?action=profile;u=7 Official Vivisector Mascot]</ref>
* '''Motto''': ''Take this spear and heal thyself''

== Site mission ==

Vivisector was founded to fill a perceived gap in [[furry community]] sites. The FAQ states that the site is to be a source about the subculture between the biases of the [[anti-furries]] and the furries themselves. Site rules require that all information posted to the site be reasonably accurate, researched, and free of excessive bias.<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,5.0.html Terms of Service]</ref> The name was chosen to imply the deconstruction of a living group of animal people, their society, their motions, and their motives. An overarching goal is to "increase and diffuse world knowledge of furries with reasoned explanations and current news".

Articles on Vivisector deal with "outdated and incorrect terminology and myths".<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,4.0.html Culture, the Sum of Art]</ref> Updates and news share what goes on in the administration of some furry sites, examples of fans behaving madly, and often opinions on each.

The site does not tolerate trolling or activism in the name of Vivisector and demands maturity from its participants.<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,9.0.html First Rule Is]</ref>

The [[IRC]] channel is operated by Dr. Dos.

== References ==
<references />

== See also ==

* [[Furfags.com]]
* [[Crush Yiff Destroy]]
* [[LOLfurries]]
{{stub}}
[[Category:Websites]]
[[Category:Forums]]
[[Category:Ideological groups]]
[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:2007 births]]

Rodox video

2008-06-18T18:23:20Z

Downspin: NPOV!

[[Image:Computoliowall.jpg|right|180px]]
'''Computolio''', also known as '''papa_november''' and '''rodox_video''', is an administrator and forum moderator for both [[Crush Yiff Destroy]], hub of the tongue-in-cheek ''"[[monolithic antifurry conspiracy]],"'' and its evolution, [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector]].

== Biography ==
[[Image:Computolioaugust.jpg|left|140px]]
Computolio is a self styled pioneer and known connoisseur of smoking pipes. He has been referred to as the "leader of the charge on the [[Eric_W._Schwartz|Anti-Schwartz]] camp" {{fact}} and "Protector of [[Thorn Valley]]",{{fact}} the latter title awarded for his exceptional work in the [[NIMH]] fandom.

He is known for his love of [[Wikipedia:Amiga|Amiga]] computers, and game emulators.

== The secret of NIHM ==

He was heavily involved in the NIHM fandom through the late 90's, operating a frequently updated fansite popular for rare promotional material; he was able to speak with artist, animator and NIHM director [[Don Bluth]] over concerns and questions others may have had regarding the film.

This particular site, once hosted on [[Geocities]], no longer exists.

== The advent of CYD ==

With the help of [[Mitch]], a former [[Secret of NIMH]] fellow [[muck]] player, they created CYD in 2003 as an standalone offshoot off the [[Portal of Evil]] forums, mainly focused on the absurdities of the [[furry fandom]], keeping a "highbrowed flavor of humor" while doing so.

== External links ==

* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4 Computolio]'s member profile at CYD
* [http://friends.portalofevil.com/fshow.php?si=3&userid=3071 Computolio]'s member profile at PoE

[[Category:People]][[Category:Anti-furries]]

Sage Nadia

2008-02-03T22:44:35Z

Downspin: name correction

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that Nadia took '''Sage''' from former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], believing that '''Sage''' was a title and not part of a name. Nadia has commented several times that that is not the case.

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Kindrift]]
It has been suggested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]] moderator [[Kindrift]], who released an image comparing Nadia's IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel pertaining to Ayukawataur.

Kindrift has claimed that the image was not edited in any way beyond the necessary highlighting. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] grew by leaps and bounds. As of this writing, the Fchan DNP lists over 221 individual artists and 15 websites, one of which is only partially present, resulting in a larger appearance than it actually has.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones (ironically enough, most of the furry-based imageboards that have cropped up since Nadia gained control of Fchan were created specifically because Fchan didn't die). As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan to ensure this would happen:

===== Domination =====

Step one was to dominate the boards -- to create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users' love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it openly available to any and all artists who wished to be placed on it. In this manner, she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better imageboard. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many "trolls".

===== Retirement =====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye -- as part of this step, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining active on Fchan only in an advisory capacity to Xenofur. She thus was allowed to stay in Fchan's administrative IRC channel. Additionally, due to the low reliability of the fchan server and the low availability of persons with the knowledge and ability to bring it back up in emergency cases, Xenofur allowed her to retain root login, on the condition she only acts in cases of functional failure to threat to the server. He never informed Raven or any other member of this fact, due to his knowledge of Raven's inability to accept anything else than absolutely clear ranks and power levels. The userbase of fchan was not informed as the persons with server admin access for development and maintenance reasons were not generally made public, unless they chose so.

===== Return =====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The delay here being caused by the owner looking at the situation with indifference. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, due to a statement of an underinformed close acquaintance of [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]]. Site administrator Xenofur claims that things happened as follows:

Due to a specific event in summer 2007, Xenofur decided that Raven was unable to deal with the specific power structures unique to Fchan, this concerning not only the position of Nadia, but also the relation between mods and admins. He did however not take the necessary actions, kept his conclusions secret from Raven and let him retain his position. Half a year passed in which things went on with Raven doing the bulk of the administrative decisions and Xenofur swallowing most of his objections. After that time however he was talked into performing a certain act. However, afterwards he realized that the reasoning leading to that act were, as far as he was concerned, completely flawed and not consistant with the way Fchan should be administrated. As such he decided to remove Raven from his admin position, however opted due to emotional stress to drop offline for a week. This left Nadia online as the only person with the access and knowledge to ensure security of the server. In that week she and Raven talked about the topic at hand and Raven made a remark that she interpreted as being a threat to the server. According to the conditions agreed on with Xenofur a year before, she changed the root password of the server to prevent any tampering.

When Xenofur came back online she immediately gave the new root password to him, as well as instructions on how to change it. Due to work stress and wanting to talk things through with the other mods he opted to leave things as they are for the moment. In a lengthy talk Raven and Xenofur came to the agreement that it would be best for Raven to leave the administration team. Two other mods followed him, as they'd only been on the team due to being friends of his.

It is of note that in the time from her retirement until the moment when she changed the root password, she had not done a single administrative talk or decision. Currently Nadia is not listed on Fchan's front page under the "Contact" section, due to the fact that all administrative decisions are still only being done by Xenofur, while she restricts her actions to advising him and the mods. Due to being dismissed by Xenofur Raven is also unlisted, leaving only Xenofur as the remaining Administrator.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T21:54:49Z

Downspin: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Herr Xenofur ist the only one who knows near as much about this as I do. I mean, come on here. According to your people, Xenofur and I kept the entire staff oblivious to the alleged fact that I was running everything. And, none of this, including myself, was an issue because everyone thought I had faded away.
::::::: Kinda sorta means you all really have no clue either.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: Just means that you're very good at lying and deception, by your own admission in the article. That you wrote. Even more reason that you shouldn't be allowed to write your own article. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::: No, it means that I never knew I was still in charge until shortly before I took back over. It means that the staff knew I was around, and that I was someone Xenofur consulted, but we never made the public aware of such. It means we had a good staff who knew how to keep internal matters internal.
::::::::: I never intended to ever run the system again. It happened, that is all there is too it. Events went the way they went, and someone had to take control or we would have all watched the system, and those trusted to run it, tear apart over internal conflict. I did what I did because I did not want the system to die and be replaced by 15 clones each behaving like lulz.
::::::::: Fchan is meant to be a place for art appreciation. Drama belongs elsewhere.
::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Stricken pending any argument that it's a useful addition. If no one asked for years, then no one wanted or needed to know. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 09:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Of course not. That would mean they would not be able to use it as my defining comment. I do not mind if they continue to use it that way. It really is a good way of trying to make me look like my perspective is skewed and off base. Absolutely brilliant, if not completely predictable tactics.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Dear, don't pretend the world is out to get you. This is a wiki, not a battleground. It is a place for information, not a place where you combat your supposed enemies. That was never your defining comment until you told the world it was and begged them to ridicule you for it; it doesn't belong here, it's better suited for your own journal or site. And let me know if I'm "very mean being" to you. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 19:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: Paranoia Much?
::::: The world is not out to get me. As with all individuals, a few are trying to have fun, make a point, and intend to make my life a bit more complex than previously experienced. But, hey, we all have those types of people to challenge us and push us to new heights.
::::: You must be new to this, or have been reading the abridged book of Nadia. That statement has been used more times and on more sites than anything else I have ever said. If you count my pointing out it was never defined as begging, you must have led a very simple and plush life. Begging is something one does when they have nothing and must resort to the pity of others in order to survive. Pointing out facts, as I have, is what people do when there is a definite lack of understanding going on.
::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::You must be new to the whole wiki thing. If you demand that the uneditable block which persists the viewpoint of a single editor (you) remains in the article, then you should give a reason and evidence for it here on the talk page and not revert the entire article as "vandalism". My change has been reviewed and accepted by the administration as not vandalism. Further you reverted a number of positive changes along with the one change you disagreed with. You have more tools available than simple reversion.
:::::I don't care about the 'book of Nadia'. I don't read furry fiction. If you think the fiction is appropriate, then explain why. WikiFur is not a place for you to make rebuttals to arguments, I'd write that little essay in your private space or in a journal somewhere and leave it off this page. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T20:26:36Z

Downspin: Fixing Vandalism

Vivisector (website)

2008-02-02T20:24:38Z

Downspin: revert, merge, and expand

[[Image:Vivisector logo.gif|right|Vivisector logo]]
''This article is about the website. For other uses, see [[Vivisector]].''

'''Vivisector''' is a webforum for [[furries]] and others to discuss news and philosophy about the furry subculture. It is intended to be a neutral and factual resource for the community and observers.

* '''Addresses''':
**'''Website''': http://www.vivisector.org/
**'''Forum''': http://forums.vivisector.org/
* '''Founder''': ?
* '''Administrators''': [[Kindrift]], ProvincialTwit, rodox_video
* '''Mascot''': [[Dr. Dos]]<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php?action=profile;u=7 Official Vivisector Mascot]</ref>
* '''Ran from/to''': October 2007 - present

== Site Mission ==

Vivisector was founded to fill a perceived gap in furry community sites. The FAQ states that the site is to be a source about the subculture between the biases of the [[anti-furries]] and the [[furries]] themselves. Site rules require that all information posted to the site be reasonably accurate, researched, and free of excessive bias.<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,5.0.html Terms of Service]</ref> The site does not tolerate trolling or activism in the name of Vivisector and demands maturity from its participants.<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,9.0.html First Rule Is]</ref>

The name was chosen to imply the deconstruction of a living group of animal people, their society, their motions, and their motives. An overarching goal is to increase and diffuse world knowledge of furries with reasoned explanations and current news. Articles on Vivisector deal with outdated and incorrect terminology and myths.<ref>[http://forums.vivisector.org/index.php/topic,4.0.html Culture, the Sum of Art]</ref> The tagline ''"Martyrs to no one but ourselves"'' is intended to describe the furry subculture in general.

The [[IRC]] channel is operated by Dr. Dos.

== References ==
<references />

== See also ==

* [[Furryne.ws]]
* [[Crush Yiff Destroy]]
* [[Lulz.net]]
{{stub}}
[[Category:Websites]]
[[Category:Forums]]
[[Category:Ideological groups]]
[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:2007 births]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T19:45:00Z

Downspin: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */

Kindrift

2008-02-02T19:34:06Z

Downspin: revert and merge

{{cleanup}}
'''RailFox''', also known as '''Raiya Daimonion''', '''Downspin''' and '''Kindrift''', is an administrator of [[SporkMUCK]], formely of RunaMUCK, and is an editor and forum moderator at [[Vivisector]], formerly at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. The login name '''RailFoxen''' used at several sites describes a creature not entirely unlike the unique RailFox.

==== Fursona ====

RailFox's original [[fursona]] was a [[kitsune]] (rather than a [[fox]]) with a railgun fixation. He changed his fursona to a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]] named Downspin.

== Furry involvement ==

Seen occasionally at the [[Dionysian Scream|D-Scream]] in years past, he was one of the early [[Postfurry|postfurries]], but parted with the community shortly before the creation of [[PuzzleboxMUCK]] in 2002. His involvement in the postfurry community may have been influenced by the [[wikipedia:Strogg|Strogg]], as this name is a [[Wikipedia:Quake II|Quake II]] reference. His feelings about today's fandom can be summed up with the following, personal quote: "''I am a furry in the mode of not quite being a furry.''"{{fact}}

== Crush, Yiff, Destroy ==

RailFox was a forum moderator on [[Crush Yiff Destroy]] under the name '''RailFoxen''' until July 2006 when he decided to use the name '''Downspin''' online and spread the story that RailFoxen had been banned from CYD due to "a slight legal emergency", the precise details of which were never specified.

It is believed that this was done in order to fool people whom he had harassed online.{{fact}} Downspin assumed RailFoxen's duties as forum moderator immediately after RailFoxen's "banning",<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=downspin&start=0 '' RailFoxen? Downspin?''] - CYD forum thread on RailFoxen's "ban"</ref> and later changed his forum handle to '''Kindrift'''.

CYD administrator [[Mitch]] asserted on [[Chibiabos]]'s Talk page<ref>[http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Chibiabos Mitch's comment on RailFoxen further non-involvement with CYD,] posted on Chibiabos' Talk Page</ref> that RailFoxen was no longer associated with CYD, but the fact that he made an apparent newcomer to CYD such as Downspin/Kindrift a moderator immediately upon joining CYD casts doubt on the veracity of this statement and suggests that at the very least Downspin was someone known to him.

Further doubt is cast by the fact that CYD published an article by RailFoxen on October 1, 2006, four months after he had ostensibly been banned.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/show/chi "Chibiabos: Distorted Prose"] - CYD article about Chibiabos by Railfoxen</ref>

== References ==
<references />

==External links==
{{Contributor|Downspin}}
* [http://railfoxen.livejournal.com/ ''AHK//Death Magick for Adepts''] - Railfoxen's LiveJournal
* [http://kindrift.livejournal.com/ ''American Hell Kitsune''] - Kindrift's LiveJournal
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=307 Railfoxen's] CYD profile
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Kindrift's] CYD profile

[[Category:People]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Skunk characters]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Kindrift

2008-02-02T18:20:03Z

Downspin: revert and partial merge

{{cleanup}}
'''RailFox''', also known as '''Raiya Daimonion''', '''Downspin''' and '''Kindrift''', is the acting head administrator of [[SporkMUCK]], and is an editor and forum moderator at [[Vivisector]], formerly [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. The login name '''RailFoxen''' used at several sites describes a creature not entirely unlike the unique RailFox.

==== Fursona ====

RailFox's original [[fursona]] was a [[kitsune]] (rather than a [[fox]]) with a railgun fetish. He changed his fursona to a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]] named Downspin.

== Furry involvement ==

Seen occasionally at the [[Dionysian Scream|D-Scream]] in years past, he was one of the early [[Postfurry|postfurries]], but parted with the community shortly before the creation of [[PuzzleboxMUCK]] in 2002. His involvement in the postfurry community may have been influenced by the [[wikipedia:Strogg|Strogg]], as this name is a [[Wikipedia:Quake II|Quake II]] reference. His feelings about today's fandom can be summed up with the following, personal quote: "''I am a furry in the mode of not quite being a furry.''"{{fact}}

== Crush, Yiff, Destroy ==

RailFox was a forum moderator on [[Crush Yiff Destroy]] under the name '''RailFoxen''' until July 2006 when he decided that he now wished to use the name '''Downspin''' online and spread the story that RailFoxen had been banned from CYD due to "a slight legal emergency", the precise details of which were never specified.

It is believed that this was done in order to fool people whom he had harassed online.{{fact}} Downspin assumed RailFoxen's duties as forum moderator immediately after RailFoxen's "banning",<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=downspin&start=0 '' RailFoxen? Downspin?''] - CYD forum thread on RailFoxen's "ban"</ref> and later changed his forum handle to '''Kindrift'''.

CYD administrator [[Mitch]] asserted on [[Chibiabos]]'s Talk page<ref>[http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Chibiabos Mitch's comment on RailFoxen further non-involvement with CYD,] posted on Chibiabos' Talk Page</ref> that RailFoxen was no longer associated with CYD, but the fact that he made an apparent newcomer to CYD such as Downspin/Kindrift a moderator immediately upon joining CYD casts doubt on the veracity of this statement and suggests that at the very least Downspin was someone known to him.

Further doubt is cast by the fact that CYD published an article by RailFoxen on October 1, 2006, four months after he had ostensibly been banned.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/show/chi "Chibiabos: Distorted Prose"] - CYD article about Chibiabos by Railfoxen</ref>

== References ==
<references />

==External links==
{{Contributor|Downspin}}
* [http://railfoxen.livejournal.com/ ''AHK//Death Magick for Adepts''] - Railfoxen's LiveJournal
* [http://kindrift.livejournal.com/ ''American Hell Kitsune''] - Kindrift's LiveJournal
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=307 Railfoxen's] CYD profile
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Kindrift's] CYD profile

[[Category:People]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Skunk characters]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T09:04:16Z

Downspin: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */

Sage Nadia

2008-02-02T09:01:11Z

Downspin:

Kindrift

2008-02-02T08:43:24Z

Downspin:

{{cleanup}}
'''RailFox''', also known as '''Raiya Daimonion''', '''Downspin''' and '''Kindrift''', is the acting head administrator of [[SporkMUCK]], and is an editor and forum moderator at [[Vivisector]], formerly [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. The login name '''RailFoxen''' used at several sites describes a creature not entirely unlike the unique RailFox.

==Furry involvement ==
==== Postfurries ====

Seen occasionally at the [[Dionysian Scream|D-Scream]] in years past, he was one of the early [[Postfurry|postfurries]], but parted with the community shortly before the creation of [[PuzzleboxMUCK]] in 2002. His involvement in the postfurry community may have been influenced by the [[wikipedia:Strogg|Strogg]], as his new name is a [[Wikipedia:Quake II|Quake II]] reference. His feelings about today's fandom can be summed up with the following, personal quote: "''I am a furry in the mode of not quite being a furry.''"{{fact}}

==== Fursona ====

RailFox's original [[fursona]] was a [[kitsune]] (rather than a [[fox]]) with a railgun fetish. He changed his fursona to a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]] named Downspin.

== Crush, Yiff, Destroy ==

Raiya was a forum moderator on [[Crush Yiff Destroy]] under the name '''Railfoxen''' until July 2006 when he decided that he now wished to use the name '''Downspin''' online and spread the story that Railfoxen had been banned from CYD due to "a slight legal emergency", the precise details of which were never specified.

It is believed that this was done in order to fool people whom he had harassed online.{{fact}} Downspin assumed Railfoxen's duties as forum moderator immediately after Railfoxen's "banning",<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=downspin&start=0 '' RailFoxen? Downspin?''] - CYD forum thread on Railfoxen's "ban"</ref> and later changed his forum handle to '''Kindrift'''.

CYD administrator [[Mitch]] asserted on [[Chibiabos]]'s Talk page<ref>[http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Chibiabos Mitch's comment on Railfoxen further non-involvement with CYD,] posted on Chibiabos' Talk Page</ref> that RailFoxen was no longer associated with CYD, but the fact that he made an apparent newcomer to CYD such as Downspin/Kindrift a moderator immediately upon joining CYD casts doubt on the veracity of this statement and suggests that at the very least Downspin was someone known to him.

Further doubt is cast by the fact that CYD published an article by Railfoxen on October 1st 2006, four months after he had ostensibly been banned.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/show/chi "Chibiabos: Distored Prose"] - CYD article about Chibiabos by Railfoxen</ref>

== References ==
<references />

==External links==
{{Contributor|Downspin}}
* [http://railfoxen.livejournal.com/ ''AHK//Death Magick for Adepts''] - Railfoxen's LiveJournal
* [http://kindrift.livejournal.com/ ''American Hell Kitsune''] - Kindrift's LiveJournal
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=307 Railfoxen's] CYD profile
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Kindrift's] CYD profile

[[Category:People]][[Category:Wizards]][[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Skunk characters]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Vivisector (website)

2008-02-02T08:33:31Z

Downspin: corrected gross editor mistakes

[[Image:Vivisector logo.gif|right|Vivisector logo]]
''This article is about the website. For other uses, see [[Vivisector]].''

'''Vivisector''' is a webforum for [[furs]] and others to discuss news and philosophy about the furry subculture. It is intended to be a neutral and factual resource for the community and observers.

* '''Addresses''':
**'''Website''': http://www.vivisector.org/
**'''Forum''': http://forum.vivisector.org/
* '''Founder''': [[Eric Blumrich]]
* '''Administrators''': [[Kindrift]], ProvincialTwit, rodox_video
* '''Mascot''': [[Dr. Dos]]
* '''Ran from/to''': October 2007 - present

Vivisector was founded to fill a percieved gap in furry community sites. The FAQ states that the site is to be a source about the subculture between the biases of the anti-furries and the furries themselves. The name was chosen to imply the deconstruction of a living group of animal people, their society, their motions, and their motives. The tagline ''"Martyrs to no one but ourselves"'' also describes the furry subculture in general.

The [[IRC]] channel is operated by Dr. Dos.

== See also ==

* [[Furryne.ws]]
* [[Crush Yiff Destroy]]
* [[Lulz.net]]
{{stub}}
[[Category:Websites]]
[[Category:Forums]]
[[Category:Ideological groups]]
[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:2007 births]]

User:Downspin

2008-02-02T06:54:27Z

Downspin:

==Lethal Industry==
The first and last and only. Look for the signature --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]]. And yes, I am the friendly House Redpaw [[Skunktaur (chakat-kin)|skunktaur]].

Current tasks
* Be careless
* Go Go Heart
* yytm Strategy

Current music
* ''Wrack and Ruin'', Hocico
* ''Kadavergehorsam'', Heimataerde
* ''Walk The Psycho-Path'', Run Level Zero

Someone left ''Category:Artists'' on my page. But now I'm not an artist, I'm a fucking work of art.

[[GreenReaper]] is the world's fastest man, he makes edits like [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLsbx4D8eI this].

{{ContributorU|Downspin}}

Talk:7chan

2007-01-05T21:37:15Z

Downspin:

7chan.org redirects to [http://cybercrime.gov cybercrime.gov]. wtf? o.O [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
:From another board:

:''Anonymous 07/01/05(Fri)22:21 No.55262 ''
:''Some hacker launched a nasty sql injection exploit against the site.''

:''Rather than restore from a backup with the old code they are going to update the database and rebuild.''

:The redirect will be removed once the system has been upgraded. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

4chan

2007-01-05T21:25:02Z

Downspin: Everything.

[[Image:4chan.png|right|thumb|4chan logo]]
{{rating-nc17-button2}}
'''4chan''' is a [[Wikipedia:Futaba Channel|2chan]] style art community founded by [[Something Awful]] [[goons]], with English content. Visitors submit content in various categories, such as: /h/ for [[Wikipedia:Hentai|Hentai]], /d/ for alternative hentai (subtypes of [[wikipedia:hentai|hentai]] such as [[Wikipedia:Futanari|Futanari]]), /y/ for [[Wikipedia:Yaoi|Yaoi]], /t/ for [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|torrents]], etc.

Prior to 2005, it also allowed [[Wikipedia:Loli|Lolicon]] and [[Wikipedia:Shotacon|Shota]], however, these categories were moved to [http://not4chan.org/ '''not4chan.org'''], due to [[Wikipedia:Terms_of_Service|TOS]] violations. 4chan also incorporates other categories such as "Papercraft and Origami", "Videogames", "Animals and Nature", and "Mecha", as well as many others.<ref>http://www.4chan.org/faq.php</ref>

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://www.4chan.org/
** '''Blog''': http://www.4chan.org/blog/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.rizon.net/4chan
* '''Founder''': [[moot]]
* '''Administrators''': ?
* '''Ran from/to''': 2003 - present

==4chan and furries==



[[Image:FreehavenBannedFromA.jpg|thumb|right|[[Sage Freehaven]], banned from /a/nime for posting furry art.]]

The majority of people on 4chan look down upon furries and even [[funny animal]] cartoons as a nuisance that does not belong on an anime board. A moderator may ban a user who posts furry material, for days or much longer.<ref>[http://www.4chan.org/rules.php Rules of 4chan]</ref>

However, /b/, a random board where anything can be posted within U.S. law, is centered around anonymity and is rebellious against any sort of rules imposed on it from outside. "Furry Friday" is a regular feature of /b/, as every Friday the furries flood both clean art and pornography, to the disgust of some other /b/ users (who invariably complain that it is the "wrong day" if furry art is posted on any other day). Images and siterips from furry [[wikipedia:Paysite|paysites]] are often reposted on Fridays.

Today, approximately 15% of /b/ users identify themselves as furries, and another 30% enjoy furry artwork.<ref>http://wasted.ig3.net/stuff/bSurvey.xls - results from a survey in /b/, Excel document format. View original results [http://wasted.ig3.net/stuff/bSurvey-Data/ here].</ref>

[[Image:4chanFurryFriday.jpg|thumb|left|Typical furry friday image macro.]]

====April Furs Day====

On April 1, 2005, 4chan administrators pulled a stunt called April Furs Day<ref ><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki> April Furs Day at [[Encyclopedia Dramatica]]</ref><ref>[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/April_Furs_Day April Furs Day] at [[Trendpedia]]</ref>. Administrators created a /fur/ board and told people that furry images should go in there instead of /b/. Some users assumed it was an April Fools Day joke and expected it to be gone the next day<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1123 April Furs Day] at [[CYD]]</ref>. Some people complained about it in /b/ and /fur/.

By April 2nd, it remained and people against it tried to flood it with non-furry images, such as EroGuro--the moderators banned those people. On April 3, the moderators removed the board and banned every person who had posted in it--including those who complained about it in /fur/. The banning almost completely eliminated all furry postings for the next several months. This did not occur again in 2006.

====4chan and Fchan====

Months prior to the April Furs Day event, to balance the growing demand for furry art and to provide a place for furry artwork to be posted without risk of removal or banning from an admin (as 4chan's owner proclaimed it was an anime website and would never add any furry or cartoon board), a user named [[Dr. Pon]] found hosting for and founded [[Fchan]], one of the first and most popular furry image-boards.

====4chan and WikiFur====

On several occasions since 4chan began, some members of the /b/ community have organized raids against [[WikiFur]] utilizing the message board as a communications medium. Typical punishment consisted of a forum ban that could last for two weeks or longer, or be permanent, depending on the offense. Such vandalism is similar to pranks on Wikipedia and other wikis.





[[Image:4chanDoAwayWithYourKind.jpg|thumb|right|Typical anti-furry image macro.]]



==/b/ terminology (examples)==
Both 4chan and 7chan /b/ communities share the following terms. These terms are those most likely to be heard during invasions, or are relevant to furry interests. Many other terms are available [http://wikichan.org/wiki/Memes at WikiChan].

*'''/b/tard''': Both a derisive ("retard") and a self-identifying term for /b/ users.
*'''Anonymous Does Not Forgive''': The battlecry of many /b/ raiders. The anonymous users of /b/ commit to a course of action and retaliate against perceived insults and attacks.
*'''GTFO FURFAG''' ("Get The Fuck Out[,] [[Furfag]]"): A [[Wikipedia:Memetic|memetic]] [[Wikipedia:Internet_slang|net slang]] term used on anybody posting [[furry art]] on 4chan, specially /b/.
*'''DESU''': A catchphrase used by Suiseiseki in [[Wikipedia:Rozen Maiden|Rozen Maiden]]. It is a Japanese sentence closure and literally means "it is". /b/ has taken and exaggerated this catchphrase: it is often spammed to make up meaningless replies, a rotated version ''nsәp'' and ASCII version are also used. "Desu" may also refer to the character Suiseiseki. Furry Desu or Furseiseki is a furry fan creation; she is a [[fox]].
*'''Harbl''': Slang for the penis.
*'''Pool's Closed''': Notification that a pool (as on [[Wikipedia:Habbo Hotel|Habbo Hotel]]) or other public area is blocked by raiders and inaccessable. The "pool" may be closed due to disease.
*'''Nigra''': The image or avatar of a cleanly suited black man with an [[Wikipedia:Afro|afro]] hairstyle that many raiders adopt. Also known as /b/rothas.
*'''/r/''': '''R'''equest (i.e. "/r/ backup, /r/ the following image")
*'''Caturday''': Every Saturday, /b/ users mass post images of cats and kittens to /b/.
*'''Furry Friday''': Every Friday, /b/ users mass post images anthropomorphic animals and epic furry drama to /b/.
*'''CP''': [[Wikipedia:Child_pornography|Child Pornography]].
*'''JB''': "Jailbait" (underage [ [[Wikipedia:Tween_(demographics)|"tween"]] ] porn.)

==See also==
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan 4chan] on [[Wikipedia]]
*[http://wikichan.org/wiki/Main_Page WikiChan], by and for *chan users

==References==
<references/>

==External links==

*[http://www.lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=4chan#4chan_Memes_.26_Terms Lurkmore.com's] Wiki article on 4chan
*[http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki//b/ Cybernations'] Wiki article on 4chan

{{Image boards}}
[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Mature image boards]]

User talk:Spirou

2007-01-05T01:45:26Z

Downspin: /* /b/day passage on 4chan & 7chan articles (part deux) */

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]] (August 2005 - October 2006)
</div>
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Before we delete anything ==

I haven't (yet) read about "Chibiabos' intellectual property", but I don't think we can delete pages simply because he says so. [[WikiFur:Copyrights]] explicitly states that the license, once granted, cannot be retracted. And since the editing box states that all contributions are considered to be "released under the GNU Free Documentation License", I think that firmly establishes the license which applies to the text. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:For what i have read, their are just his personal created Fursonas, which should have been on his main article anyways to begin with, and would have been probably asked to do so eventually. Nothing relevant to [[furry fandom]] per se without the his (now protected) main article online. If you think anything of it is worthwhile towards maintaining any of it for historical, purposes, I , or somebody else, may revert SpD

:Or we could open the "Chibiabos" article, add these loose fursonas inside it under a "--Chibiabos' fursonas--" section, and reprotect the main article again? [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

::Right as you wrote that, I looked through some of those articles myself and yeah, they're just his characters. I wouldn't have any major obections if they went buh-bye. Maybe we should probably replace them with #REDIRECTs to the main article on Chibiabos to keep anyone else from creating articles about those characters.

:: BTW, there's some discussion of this on IRC if you're interested/able to stop by. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Sorry, I just logged back from work,... accessed IRC but looks like everybody is either AFK, or private messaging. As for the these articles, I guess we can reach a concensus later. GreenReaper its got a point that we don't have to just jump the gun on these kinds of decisions [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

::::We were in #wikifur - I think you dropped into #wikifur-edits by mistake. It's mostly done now, though, so I wouldn't worry about it. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::doh, as usual,... Thanks for the info, nonetheless =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

::As the articles are about roleplayed characters with distinct identities, histories, species, ''et cetera'', I support keeping them and keeping them as separate articles. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 04:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Just a IMHO suggestion. If leaving them up, would be it better separated as they are know, or unified in a single article with different sections, and finally linked to the "Chibiabos" article? [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Vandalism, my ass ==

First of all, my removal of those personally idenfiable details are not vandalism. Second, I will not stop removing them. So, you know, stop wasting your time, furfag. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Vandalism is perhaps not the best word for it. "Trying to hide from the consequences of your past actions"? Regardless, you've obviously not convinced people that they should do what you want. I suggest you figure out a way to do that.

:As for removals - we've got all day here. There are also a lot more of us. It is our site. We have site protection extensions sufficient to handle a full Something Awful or proxy-using account-registering bot attack. I fear it is you who will be wasting your time - or worse, bringing the attention of sites like ED to that which you are trying to conceal. I'm sure you know how these things can go, and I don't think that would be a favourable outcome. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== %$#@&*^% IRC,... ==

Need to find a good Mac OSX IRC program >=( [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:28, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

:How about [http://colloquy.info/ Colloquy]? I've been using it for awhile. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

::Had IRCle for years, but it's kind of bombing on my 15' MacBook Pro laptop (maybe Rosseta?,)... I downloaded a few OSX IRC programs, including your suggestion, so I will choose the one that doesn't blow up on my face Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 16:00, 17 October 2006 (PDT)

==Phillip M. Jackson article==
Ah, my bad then. I couldn't see any obvious connection to the article's subject on the page that was linked to, and 88.96.32.14's original edits
([http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Phillip_M._Jackson&oldid=94148])
didn't look they were trying to make a serious addition to the entry. I've unblocked the IP address. --[[User:Higgs Raccoon|Higgs Raccoon]] 09:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

:No problem ^-^ All thought a valid attempt to add a missing link, as I stated, it could or could not be Mr. Jackson. If said person misbehaves in the future, well, thenI'm the fool in this situation =/ (Thank you for responding so fast!) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 09:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

==Mellis article==

I reverted it, as the information you added have nothing to do with Mellis. He doesn't own that in Second Life, and that's not his blog. :) [[User:Arcturus|Arcturus]] 08:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you don't wish us to get the impression that these two "Mellis" are the same, you don't add a link of the bottom of the page at http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/ that indicates "Header Art by Mellis," which directs to a page own by somebody name "Mellis," Has you can see by both your responses, it can lead to some confusion [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== Mellis thread ==

Being that I AM Mellis, I'd ask you to at least learn something about me before editing my entry.

I'm not Kemru, thank you very much. I have no idea where the heck you got this idea.

Please check your facts instead of making things up. This is not the first time this has happened, you've made up facts on the Wtfur entry as well that were blatantly untrue. It reflects very poorly on you.

:First, who is Kemru? (I didn't write concerning anybody by such name, if so indicate where so I could see where the problem is.Two) If Arturus has a link of the bottom of the page at http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/ that indicates "Header Art by Mellis," which directs to a page own by somebody name "Mellis"(*), you conclude that both "Mellis" are the same.

:If not, you point calmly that both these link persons are not the same [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

:::"Please check your facts instead of making things up". I do "This is not the first time this has happened, you've made up facts on the Wtfur entry as well that were blatantly untrue. It reflects very poorly on you." see below

:::Actually, everything that I wrote down was accurate (I did not say Palcomix was the first cub thread, it was the one the attracted the most flak, and yes I was aware about the rest of the cub threads, but, again the Palcomix one was the one people complained the most, enough to attract the attention of CYD, enough to make a "Controversy" section about it.)

:::But thank you for enhancing the WTF, your help adding to articles is appreciated ^-^ [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:44, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually that link goes to Kemru's site. Nowhere on the site linked did it even mention Mellis, and I have no idea where you got the Second Life stuff from. The link to Kemru's site was separate from the declaration I did the header pic - though they're close to each other on the page they have nothing to do with each other.

On the wtfur article, you had written: "When several more threads with alleged "cub porn" were created, the administrators final position/word on the matter was that" Giving the impression to readers that the Palcomix thread was the FIRST cub thread, and that it's cretion is what prompted the page's stance on cub art, when in fact this stance was in place since day one. It's extremely misleading.

Not to mention after talking to Greenreaper about how the entire section should be changed to general controversy and wasn't a well written section, you have gone and changed it back. Thanks for that.

:Well, that could be my fault 50% there, Mellis, if I followed a link that indicates that's for your website, and ends up on the mentioned link, I would assume it's Mellis' website, and add the extra pertinent information there to indicate, for example that, Mellis likes SL. If the link Arcturus posted was wrong, them, yes, the information I posted was wrong, it gets pointed out, and fixed, that's all.

:I should have clarify more about the Palcomix thread not being the first one, just the fist one to garner enough attention to add to it's Controversy section, but you helped enhanced the article, as all articles are not set on stone

:And finally, Yes, I made a mistake on the Mellis article based on a wrong linked. I apologize for that, and have changed to reflect that [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== Formal Apology to artist Melly from Spirou ==

Sorry about getting the wrong information based on a wrong link, and apologies for then temporarily omitting valid information on the same article (reverted back.)

Please, it was not my intend to anger or start a fight you, I don't hold a grudge against you because I was wrong, and you pointed so. As other editors can attest, I try (try) not to make enemies on Wikifur. This is being a (not so funny) comedy of errors. Please accept my apology [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

:Nah, we're cool now. Just check sources a little better in the future =)

::Will do. Truly, as several editors here can attest, I don't like to antagonize anybody here,... If I make a mistake, please do let me know,... and thanks ^-^ [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== Weeeee,... ==

Well, this was an interesting way to start the weekend (Ha!, who needs coffee anyway!) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== LOL wtf? ==

[http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:The_TFV_brigade]

== Confirm or Deny ==

You made two claims that don't seem to stand up to examination. Both these seem verifiably false, but since you made the claim, you probably have some verification. As such, can you provide it for these?

1) Peter Schorn (Hangdog) is Starless and Bible Black on Portal of Evil.

2) Burned Fur, as a group, ever actually threatened anyone.
[[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

:A) "Peter Schorn (Hangdog) is Starless and Bible Black on Portal of Evil." A little behind edits, are we?. [[Mitch]] already graciously pointed out about a month ago that it was actually [[Stukafox]] the person behind those aliases,...

:B)"Burned Fur, as a group, ever actually threatened anyone." Never made that statement. You should recheck the history log, as you could have seen that it was in fact [[Xydexx]] who entered that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Burned_Furs&oldid=12673 information]... 13 months ago.

:C)...and, since, you have a particular personal interest on my persona, may I ask who am I directing myself to?. "User:66.88.135.150" is such an impersonal name to have a conversation with =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

:: You are still linking Hangdog to Starless and Bible Black in this entry: [[Hangdog]] (External Links)

:: In the discussion for [[Burned Fur]] you claimed, or appeared to claim, you had information releating to threats made by Burned Fur:

::''Yes, and when I (or somebody elese) gets around to continue work in the article, you may able to read about it, until then, there will be a dearth of data regarding this particular point in the afore mentioned article, so I suggest the use of web search engines =)''

::Did I missread this? It appears you are saying that you have direct information about such threats. Again, in the absence of evidence, the claim Burned Fur made threats should be removed.

:: [[User:733|733]] at your service, but I really don't have a personal interest in you as much as what you've been writing.

:::"You are still linking Hangdog to Starless and Bible Black in this entry: [[Hangdog]] (External Links)" Oops, corrected. Yes, they hangdog=Bible Black was a case of mistaking two articles together, which Mitch corrected (forgot to transfer that link you pointed out. and I need to clean those to articles later.)

:::"In the discussion for [[Burned Fur]] you claimed, or appeared to claim, you had information releating to threats made by Burned Fur: 'Yes, and when I (or somebody elese) gets around to continue work in the article, you may able to read about it, until then, there will be a dearth of data regarding this particular point in the afore mentioned article, so I suggest the use of web search engines =).' Did I missread this? It appears you are saying that you have direct information about such threats."

:::No, no you got it right,... the whole [[Burned Fur]] article is one major @#@%*&! (mess) of an article, and in need of some serious cleaning. Yes, as I said on the talk page, I was going to add some of the threats that were thrown around (plus two posts "inferring" that "actual" physical contact had occurred,) but not before some semblance of an orderly article was set up first (I just started last week by removing the [[Burned Fur Manifesto]] so it becomes its own stand-alone article.)

:::Hmm, right of the blue, without my notes at home, the only threat I can recall out of hand would be the one where [[Clint Forrester]] threatened publicly to smash Xydexx head through a wall (he did kind of apologize later, if I recall.) So, in brief, somebody did mentioned that there was some threats from BFs to nonBFs, somebody asked for proof, I said I would put some up later when the article was in better shape. But directly stating that "threat" fact on the first place, no quite. Does this answer your inquiries?.

:::::"[[User:733|733]] at your service,"... Uh, Oh, well, at least is easier to pronounce [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: I guess so. I have a two questions. First, is this correct?

:::: ''A contributor to the Portal of Evil's forums for almost 10 years (under the "Starless" and "Bible Black" aliases,) he announced in February 2006 his intention to officially separate himself from further participation on POE's debate area[1]. The reason behind it was a thread involving political matters regarding the nuclear tensions between Iran and the USA during the spring of 2006[2]. This "decision" lasted less than a week before he returned to the forums.''

:::: Did he post again? I looked at his posting history and he hasn't posted since the post you quoted. You seem to suggest his post was a ploy and that he didn't really leave. Can you back this up?

:::: The second question is more general, but what does this really have to do with Wikifur and furry in general? The guy was a furry, he posted on another message board, and then he left. I'm not seeing the connection between Wikifur and this "controversy". Has he posted other places? If so, should those be included too?

:::: On the Burned Fur item: was Clint representing Burned Fur when he threatend Xydex? Was he stating some Burned Fur policy of Xydexx bashing? Otherwise, it seems like this is an unfair attempt at guilt by association. Again, unless you're willing to back up the claim that Burned Fur as an organization ever made threats, that claim should be removed. [[User:733|733]] 17:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, that last paragraph was a leftover from the "Hangdog" article,... Thank you for pointing it out, will correct it,... Actually:

"What does this really have to do with Wikifur and furry in general?,"... looking at it again, you are correct,... Outside the "Handog" article context, not much really. Will delete that section, if some other editor feels that that's too drastic, or there's a reason to keep, please feel free to revert it.

"On the Burned Fur item: was Clint representing Burned Fur when he threatend Xydex?,"... Hmm, that's a subject that it's still up for discussion,... there are a lot of people pro and con about the matter, and it will probably will be discussed in length as soon as this article is finally finished, formatted, wikified and referenced (This is one heck of a clean-up mess, and I got my plate full for the moment Xp) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

== Template suggestions ==

I agree with Duncandahusky idea for a slower "review" version to the "Speedydelete" tag ({{Proposed_deletion}},) but, in reference to the section I'm about to delete from the "stukafox" article, would a "speedydelete" tag for sections make sense ({{speedydelete-section}},) to give editors time to evaluate the merit of the removal?

== Uh, busy day, Gents?,... ==

Looks like, as usual, they didn't leave a lasting impression,... =/ Superb job by Admins and Editors, though =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

:The net result is that Tor is no longer a viable route of vandalism. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

::I gather that Tor is some kind of Anon Proxy service/program?,... Hmm, so much trouble for something it will be just reverted on the fly,... Whatever floats their boats, thou [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:32, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

:::[[Wikipedia:Tor (anonymity network)|Something like that]]. The problem comes when they try to sink ours. I don't want our admins to be stuck bailing out spam all the time. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

== Image:Hotelyorba.jpg ==

Hello Spirou,

This is in regards to ''[[:Image:Hotelyorba.jpg]]''. It has not been tagged with a copyright status. This can be a complicated area, so I can try to help if you need any. The Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:WP:IUP|Image use policy]] may give some background, but it isn't policy here.

To deal with this image, there are a few choices:

* If you are the copyright holder, release it under a free license, for example:
** [[Wikipedia:Public domain|Public domain]] <nowiki>{{PDImage}}</nowiki>
** [[Wikipedia:Creative Commons|Creative Commons]] Attribution-ShareAlike <nowiki>{{Cc-by-sa-2.5}}</nowiki>
** [[Wikipedia:GFDL|GFDL]] <nowiki>{{GFDL}}</nowiki>
* If you are asserting that this image is usable under fair use, add an appropriate fair use tag. A very basic summary is that fair use is used for commentary, criticism and review on the image when no free image could be used instead. Some fair use tags are:
** Logos: <nowiki>{{logo}}</nowiki>
** Covers: <nowiki>{{Cover}}</nowiki>
** Comic panels: <nowiki>{{Comic-panel}}</nowiki>
* If the image is already under a free license, provide information on the license, and tag the image if you can.
* If you would like the image to be deleted, ask any [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]

To see a list of current copyright tags available on WikiFur, see [[:Category:Image copyright tags]]
If the copyright status is not resolved, the image may be deleted.

Unless you have a question for me specifically, I'd prefer responses on the page for the image. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 05:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

== Image:Sibe.png ==

Hello Spirou,

This is in regards to ''[[:Image:Sibe.png]]''. It has not been tagged with a copyright status. This can be a complicated area, so I can try to help if you need any. The Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:WP:IUP|Image use policy]] may give some background, but it isn't policy here.

To deal with this image, there are a few choices:

* If you are the copyright holder, release it under a free license, for example:
** [[Wikipedia:Public domain|Public domain]] <nowiki>{{PDImage}}</nowiki>
** [[Wikipedia:Creative Commons|Creative Commons]] Attribution-ShareAlike <nowiki>{{Cc-by-sa-2.5}}</nowiki>
** [[Wikipedia:GFDL|GFDL]] <nowiki>{{GFDL}}</nowiki>
* If you are asserting that this image is usable under fair use, add an appropriate fair use tag. A very basic summary is that fair use is used for commentary, criticism and review on the image when no free image could be used instead. Some fair use tags are:
** Logos: <nowiki>{{logo}}</nowiki>
** Covers: <nowiki>{{Cover}}</nowiki>
** Comic panels: <nowiki>{{Comic-panel}}</nowiki>
* If the image is already under a free license, provide information on the license, and tag the image if you can.
* If you would like the image to be deleted, ask any [[WikiFur:Administrators|administrator]]

To see a list of current copyright tags available on WikiFur, see [[:Category:Image copyright tags]]
If the copyright status is not resolved, the image may be deleted.

Unless you have a question for me specifically, I'd prefer responses on the page for the image. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 08:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for responding. I didn't see the previous message in your archives. I don't think it's compatible with our policies without a copyright status, but I'll wait to see if there's any objection. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 09:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

::The image is a crop from one of the many dozens of Macro created during the week Sibe was incarcerated. I f we have a (C) problem with this one, a "public" available, civilian image of Sibe is available, part of a request for his official, non (C) beholden "mugshot" from the Police department/unit that booked him the last time. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 10:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

== "Furry" article blanking ==

I don't want to be associated with "furries" or have my name listed on the NIU Wiki. -Atmotas

:Fair enough [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

== Great job with cleaning up! ==

Thanks for cleaning up this current blanking storm... I'm letting you handle it to avoid edit conflicts, unless you think it is better for two people to work...

:Start with the latests, I will work from the bottom up [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

::Uh, never mind,... the Cavalry is here =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

== +sysop ==

ah,... hmm... Hope I can do the title justice, GreenReaper <=)

:I noticed you were having to do a lot of reversion there. Here's a few extra powers to make things a little easier (the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Administration#Rollback bot rollback feature] is particularly useful). Remember you can always come onto IRC for more help. Enjoy! :-) [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

== Patrolled edits ==

Now that you're an administrator, you can have your edits marked as patrolled automatically. If you'd like, go into "Preferences" in the top right, under "Editing", check "Mark edits I make as patrolled". --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 17:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the tip [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 10:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

== *Big Hug* ==

Thanks for helping me with the ASWL page :) {{unsigned|Coelacanth1938}}

== Small question about a comment ==

Small question. Was the [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Betty_Roget&diff=next&oldid=12139 split of your "cannot read minds" comment] accidental or intentional? --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 23:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

:Oh, ye Gods, I can't recall, sorry =/ [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

== zoot-sex and zootphilia? ==

When you started the [[Zoot-sex]] article you wrote: "This practice is not to be confused with "Zootaphilia"." Today Errorwolf changed that "Zootphilia" to "Zoophilia". I'm guessing your "zootaphilia" wasn't a typo. --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 09:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

:No, it wasn't,... I just haven't got to that entry yet. Thanks for the heads up <=) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 10:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

== /b/day passage on 4chan & 7chan articles ==

Hi Spirou. You keep reverting my, and Downspin's edits to the 4chan and 7chan article regarding the posting of CP to 4chan's /b/ board before /b/day, and whether rules to remove it were rigorously enforced. Despite asking you for clarification on your position I have heard nothing, so let's discuss it here.

There were two main rules at /b/ prior to /b/day; A) No posting of calls to invasion or personal information, B) No posting of illegal material (i.e. CP). Now, while A was lackadaisically enforced (it was enforced intermittently), B was ALWAYS enforced rigorously - especially when it came to CP. CP was removed immediately by any moderator who discovered it, and the poster banned permanently. Apart from this empirical, this is further evidenced by the meme '20 MINUTES NEVER FORGET' - an expression of surprise that arose one day when a CP post lasted as long as 20 minutes before moderators found it and removed it. Clearly, if the rule of removing CP was rarely enforced this would not have been surprising at all. Furthermore, even the posting of child models fully clothed was not tolerated, as evidenced by the 'loli in a bag' picture being banned.

There are two things which may cause confusion:
1) JB posting was tolerated slightly more than CP prior to /b/day. Fully clothed 'tween' models were somewhat tolerated, however it was declared a 'grey-area' on /b/day and began to be removed with a vigour that paralleled CP.
2) Lolicon used to, in the very beginnings of 4chan, be tolerated, indeed it did have its own board. Lolicon is now banned from all boards at 4chan except /b/, but one can hardly call lolicon 'CP'.

So...yes. Please either contradict me here, or stop reverting the edits to the articles in question. Thank you. --[[User:Anonymovs|Anonymovs]] 10:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:(sigh),... One, reference to contradict those claims has been posted,... and, two, doesn't it cross your mind that other people but /b/ regulars visit it, and are aware of what goes on or happens in it?. Here, let me make it more simpler: Other people (COUGHSpirouCOUGH) may have been regulars on the forum, not just you, for a long while,... No, no clue that it was [[Moot]] little pet project, [[Something Awful]]?, what's that?,... Get the point know?.

:4chan's 2006 /b/ exodus didn't happen just because. No, just enough idiots trying to push the envelope to the breaking point, making the mods life hell until they just let it go,... And the idiots kept pushing, and then the POOL finally CLOSED, and they whined because of their own retarded actions,... And those were posting CP, JB, calling for /i/, and posting personal info.

:Oh, I grant you they tried (the Mods,) but after a while of giving up after being piled on, CP, JB, calling for /i/, and posting personal info became part of the norm of /b/, not the exception like you're trying to rewrite in, so, that's the why/reasons of the reverts [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 11:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

::I apologise that I did not see your reply in the 4chan talk page before I posted this. While I can't quite understand some of what you've written here, I will try to reply to all of your points there. --[[User:Anonymovs|Anonymovs]] 12:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Your revisions and edits to the *chan articles are strange and strongly POV. Why do you wish to keep the grammatical flaws of the previous edits, why do you link /d/ to futanari, why do you insist 4chan has an obsession with WikiFur? Why did it take another administrator to make you admit that Caturday was not for furries, months after you were first informed the article was wrong? Why did you remove the sourced census information? And above all, why do you insist that 4chan moderators rarely enforced the bans on CP? - you could note there was a brief period just before /b/day when CP was posted too quickly and too often to be dealt with, but there was never a period when it was accepted or condoned by the administration. It smacks of assassination and general bastardry against editors who you don't think are ''nice people''. Your two sources should be disregarded, by the way - one isn't even FROM /b/, the other isn't sourced and does not mention pre-/b/day administration.

I'm sad to notice this is just one out of a long trail of 'bad' edits. A good bulk of your body of work is either POV or just difficult to understand. I gather English isn't your first language, but please, some of your work makes no sense. I've asked you be censured and the article cleaned by a more responsible administrator. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 20:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

:"Why do you wish to keep the grammatical flaws of the previous edits,"

Normally I don't misstype, but I will make sure to check spelling twice next time, or you could inform me ^-^

:"why do you link /d/ to futanari,"

Not my data entry,... Initially it was "Dickgirl," and I changed to the more known japanese term (Original data by user 65.126.197.2 "/d for alternative hentai (aka, "dickgirl")")

:"why do you insist 4chan has an obsession with WikiFur?"

Not my data entry,... (Original data by Dmuth.)

:"Why did it take another administrator to make you admit that Caturday was not for furries, months after you were first informed the article was wrong?

Source, please

:Why did you remove the sourced census information?

Source, please

:And above all, why do you insist that 4chan moderators rarely enforced the bans on CP? - you could note there was a brief period just before /b/day when CP was posted too quickly and too often to be dealt with, but there was never a period when it was accepted or condoned by the administration.

A) I never said it was condoned or accepted (Lie #1,)... What everybody saw was an avalanche of idiots posting prohibited media, B) and mods running so ragged that some of that material just stayed up until the article turn-over.

:It smacks of assassination and general bastardry against editors who you don't think are nice people.

If you could read a little more, and there's plenty of people to back me up, I have no beef with anybody in 4Chan, and actually there's a few very reasonable Admins, like Melly,... When Chibiabos when on his crusade against anything he perceived as evil against the fandom, I made sure biased comments against 4chan and 7chan were revereted. So this is Lie #2 on your part.

:Your two sources should be disregarded, by the way - one isn't even FROM /b/, the other isn't sourced and does not mention pre-/b/day administration.

I don't store every bit of data available. If you see such mistakes, mention which specific ones, and document/change them in the article or the talk page.

:I'm sad to notice this is just one out of a long trail of 'bad' edits. A good bulk of your body of work is either POV or just difficult to understand.

You are entitled to your opinion =)

:I gather English isn't your first language, but please, some of your work makes no sense.

'If reason doest work, insult them,...' ^-^

:I've asked you be censured and the article cleaned by a more responsible administrator. --DS|go 20:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

If Wikifur feels I have overstep my bounds on this, I will accept the censure,... But, as for myself, I already know I haven't done anything to require such, but thank you to comment on this issue. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

:And we both know nothing will be done about you, in the name of drama aversion, because you're such a nice and honest person. But I have words. Now, you say a lot of things were from other editors - but why did you revert to their changes, and ignore mine? Was I not nice enough? Second, you ask for... I THINK you want a source to my complaints that you'd deleted good things in my edit. They're all in the history. Jae was nice enough to use my Caturday definition, which had been on the article's talk page for months. I'd be happy to explain everything if you asked, all the differences here were made with good reason: http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=4chan&diff=110198&oldid=92833

:If you need sources, Tretonin has written up a nice little summary of the problem with sources on the talk page.

:Now, my 'lies'. You repeatedly said the rules against CP were not enforced, so, CP was tolerated by the admins, so, CP was tacitly condoned by the admins. This is how I understood it. Number 2, I assumed you trimmed the article for malicious reasons. I'm starting to believe you didn't know what you were reverting. Now, from the history page, Chibiabos has never edited 4chan or 7chan. Is that a lie, or an honest mistake? You also claim to be close to 4chan, yes? You should know the boards are named /b/, /h/, /d/, /o/. And not /b, /h, /d... /d/ is for /d/eviant porn, not /d/ickgirls, which are deviant, but that's not all that goes there. Also Caturday, also various many other little things that could be solved by lurking moar. You claim a lot of things as fact, when clearly, you're mistaken. I'd suggest you take yourself off this article and instead serve to mediate any disputes other users might have over it. From the IRC: [Spirou has] got this thing where if you don't cite sources he assumes you're lying, even though he usually has incorrect ones himself =P

:I realize I should apologize, I'm honestly sorry for comments about POV. Hanlon's Razor and all, 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.' Thank you. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 00:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
::Downspin, please do not continue insulting other wikifur users either directly or by insinuation. I have asked you about this several times in IRC and you show no intention of stopping. If you can't develop a little [[wikipedia:tact|tact]] then your edits may be considered disruptive to the wiki and delt with accordingly. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 00:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

==/b/day passage on 4chan & 7chan articles (part deux)==

And we both know nothing will be done about you, in the name of drama aversion, because you're such a nice and honest person.

:Hardly,... I'm on a three strike probation, with two marks already for behavior non-becoming of a Wikifur user.

But I have words. Now, you say a lot of things were from other editors - but why did you revert to their changes, and ignore mine?, Was I not nice enough?.

:If have seen some of my edits, and I do make mistakes sometimes which I revert, or are reverted by others. No, I don't have any beef against you or 4chan,... Why would I?.

Second, you ask for... I THINK you want a source to my complaints that you'd deleted good things in my edit. They're all in the history. Jae was nice enough to use my Caturday definition, which had been on the article's talk page for months. I'd be happy to explain everything if you asked, all the differences here were made with good reason: http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=4chan&diff=110198&oldid=92833

:Why didn't you point it out then, instead of now, on the talk page?.

If you need sources, Tretonin has written up a nice little summary of the problem with sources on the talk page.

:Yes, I have seen them. Thank you.

Now, my 'lies'. You repeatedly said the rules against CP were not enforced, so, CP was tolerated by the admins, so, CP was tacitly condoned by the admins. This is how I understood it.

:"On August 08, 2006, 4chan moderators started to strictly enforce its rarely enforced banning rules on posting illegal content (such as CP and JB imagery,)" Were do you get from there that I wrote "the rules against CP were not enforced?,"... And part of that sentence I wrote initially was taken from this 4chan (reference) post:

:"Anonymous 08/23/06 23:34 Thread #440 (edit) (quote) On 2006-08-23, the moderators of /b/ had started to strictly enforce its previously neglected rules on posting illegal content (such as child pornography), plans of raiding other internet communities, and posting personal information. While only the former was met with an undefined ban on the poster of such content, the new rules encompass all three catagories, resulting in bans on the original poster and on anyone posting in the thread, whether they supported the content or not. This caused unrest in the /b/ community; while many lingered to express dissent, deeming the rules to be too harsh, others left to find other image boards at which they could post such content without punishment. This event also coincided with a server crash, which may have been attributed to restructuring to make these rules more easily enforced, a regular server overload, an angered user performing a DDoS crash of the server, or just general technical difficulties."

Number 2, I assumed you trimmed the article for malicious reasons.

:You assume wrongly. Why.would.I?,...

I'm starting to believe you didn't know what you were reverting.

:Could be. We make mistakes, including you.

You also claim to be close to 4chan, yes? You should know the boards are named /b/, /h/, /d/, /o/. And not /b, /h, /d... /d/ is for /d/eviant porn, not /d/ickgirls,

:Sigh,... Again, you mistakenly atribute the "Futanary" entry to me,... here: "Not my data entry,... Initially it was wroten as "Dickgirl," and I changed to the more known japanese term (Original data by user 65.126.197.2 "/d for alternative hentai (aka, "dickgirl")")"

:And, you mistakenly wrote that it was written as "/d/ickgirls," when you can see that it was actually "/d (is) for alternative hentai (aka, "dickgirl")". Yes, sometimes we don't know what we are reverting... or quoting.

You claim a lot of things as fact, when clearly, you're mistaken.

:I don't claim, and I don't know, everything, and I have made mistakes, and so have you, but I try to correct mine, thank you ^-^

From the IRC: "[Spirou has] got this thing where if you don't cite sources he assumes you're lying, even though he usually has incorrect ones himself" =P

:...And?,... No, I don't assume somebody is lying because somebody doesn't cite sources. I could ask you for a source were I said that, but let's move on, shall we? =)

I realize I should apologize, I'm honestly sorry for comments about POV. Hanlon's Razor and all, 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.' Thank you. --DS|go 00:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

:Could I ask if you could be a little more civil?. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

::You repeatedly bold "previously neglected rules", and if the rules were neglected they must not have been enforced, right? If they were not enforced, then CP must have been accepted... same thing again, if the rules were supported, a word other than neglected should be used to describe them. At the time, as I recall, the administrators were overwhelmed and unable to properly enforce the rules. After /b/day modifcations were built into the same, allowing administrators to ban entire threads with a single command, and anonymous janitors were hired to moderate and delete offending threads. Rules on CP were never neglected. Stating the rules were ignored or neglected by the administration really paints 4chan in a negative light and invites legal trouble.

::Again, I'd like to say that's a poor source. It's not from 4chan and not written by a recognized source.

::I had assumed you were making edits in bad faith. Messages like "Incorrect, but thanks for playing ^-^ Spirou" seem condescending and argumentive, and your revisions set me on the offensive. I'm not usually a bad person, but I like to reply in kind to percieved attacks! We all have a little work to do on that!

::I never ever attributed the futanari reference to you. I did accuse you of protecting and defending it, once, but you explained it wasn't intentional. Now, /d/ is short for deviant (/d/eviant), not short for dickgirl (/d/ickgirl). Alternative is not also known as dickgirl, it is alternative. The /d/ board is for alternative hentai, whatever it may be, futanari, guro, scat, rape, whatev.

::I've corrected my mistakes. I've also corrected yours, but those were reverted, and I'm trying to form a sort of understanding so we might fix all that and put it behind us. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 01:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Sophia

2007-01-05T00:47:39Z

Downspin:

Uhm...how furry is this? Sure there's talk of an artist, who plays a vampire character...but is that furry? --[[User:IanKeith|IanKeith]] 22:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:She plays a tiger or chakat on Tapestries and SPR. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 00:47, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Spirou

2007-01-05T00:18:39Z

Downspin:

Talk:4chan

2007-01-05T00:02:23Z

Downspin:

== Grammar woes ==

I'm troubled by this sentence:
"If a moderator could identify a furry, they would ban him or her for a number of months."

It says "they" would ban the furry. Who exactly are they? Certainly not the moderator, because that's a singular noun. From the context of the paragraph, the two candidates are:
1. Something Awful goons
2. The majority of people on 4chan

The page is protected, so I can't make any changes; however, I recommend the replacement of the aforementioned sentence with something along these lines:

"Any furries identified by the moderators would be banned for a number of months." {{unsigned|Glasnost}}

:I beg to differ. The use of the word "they" in the above sentence is a long established convention of the English language [http://www.editorscanberra.org/they.htm], so the sentence in question is perfectly alright as is. Anyone with English as their first language knows perfectly well that "they" in this case refers to "a moderator". [[User:Salmanazar|Salmanazar]] 09:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::Heh, okay. I'm satisfied. I still don't like it, but I guess that's just a stylistic hang-up. [[User:Glasnost|Glasnost]]

:Just a note. The page is not protected for registered users (though it perhaps requires a certain length of time being registered). --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== 4chan and Wikifur ==

Its kinda obvious why. Its because somoene periodicly brings it up and orders and invasion

== Desu ==

"Desu" is placed at the ending of sentences in Japanese...it doesn't really have a meaning in that sense, just a sort of "period" for a sentence [vs desu-yo, which adds emphasis (like a !), or desu-ne, which adds a questioning tone (like the Canadian 'eh' or ?)]. However, looking it up, it's also Engrish slang for "death", so maybe that's the meaning behind it. Dunno. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 02:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:''A word commonly added to the end of sentences in Japan, means "it is/be/are/am" and so on; it's considered more formal than usual and is mainly used when talking to people you don't know or to a superior. Inspired by Suiseiseki from the anime Rozen Maiden, who says it extremely frequently as a kind of catchphrase; she is often simply called DESU because her name is difficult for some people to spell. DESU is often a spam reply when an unwitting newcomer asks for the definition; this was probably inspired by the Dan Kim webcomic where she is constantly repeats desu. It has recently waned in popularity after weeks of constant spamming of the forced meme. It is now banned on /b/. Used often as a spam word during /b/lockades on Habbo.'' See [http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/4chan#D WikiWorld]. ~ Downspin

Its not banned. And its just a meme. Granted one of the more popular and hated memes. -Anonymous

== See also ==

I don't understand why the extensive See also is needed in various image board articles; doesn't the category they are in provide that information? -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 15:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:Hmm, what about a imageboard-template? It's just easier to navigate with the information directly in the article. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 15:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::That doesn't really answer the question, though. Why clutter up the articles with a listing of every image board article when you can get the same thing clicking on the category link?----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 16:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:::It's just a personal preference, I guess. A template could be quite small and wouldn't really clutter up articles that are as big as this one. But yeah, categories basically do the job, just not as nice/comfortable, IMHO. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 17:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::::A couple things: A "See also"s related to an article are easier to see, read and click than clicking on a category, and, two, "Mature image boards" doesn't, read at first glance, as being [[2ch]] related. "'''Image board'''", for somebody new and not familiar with the terms visiting the Wikifur, may mean just that, an image board, not a '''2ch''' style board (unless the category were to read as "'''2ch image boards'''", then the "See also" would be redundant.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::I still don't follow why the see also is necessary; we don't see also, say, mailing lists that run on the same software. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 17:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

What about this? Doesn't take so much space, looks nicer, easy to use and modify as a template, easy navigation. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 17:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
{| align="center" class="toccolours" style="text-align: center;"
|- bgcolor="#ccccff"
! Image Boards
|-
|[[2ch]] | [[Fchan]] | [[WTFur]] | [[WTFux]] | [[ChanPlz]] | [[Onechan]] | [[F.A.P (Yiffstar)]] | [[Yiff Image Board]]
|}

:Okay, then I need to ask when do we add a "See also" to a related article?. (No being sarcastic or defensive, just trying to comply with the Wikifur formating standard, while trying to make it easier to access related information =] ) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::Hmm, that's nice, clean, and easily readable [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:::How do we proceed? [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I'd like to know what those critical of the see also section think of the template-box. If there are no objections, I can create the template and replace the see also sections with it. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 18:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Given that it's been less than four hours since the beginning of this conversation, I would recommend waiting a day or two and see if anyone has else has any input on the subject. Remember, it's a wiki, it's not brain surgery - we're not in any real hurry here :-) While I see why something like this may be nice I'm still not 100% on board with it, if only from a consistency standpoint. If we have a template like this for Image Boards, why not one for MUCKs? Or Conventions? Or any other category with (for example) ten or fewer entries? ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 19:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::I wouldn't mind these templates at all, actually. I'm somewhat of a template fanboy. ;-) Waiting a day or two to get more opinions seems like a good idea. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 19:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::See my comment above. I don't understand why image boards need to be referncing each other to this extent (in a see also section or using a template) beyond being within the same category. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 21:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::People often don't read category pages - they're more used by experienced wiki users. I think it would be good to start these sorts of templates in cases where there are several related articles. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

So, are there still any strong objections to the creation of the template? If not, I'm going to create and add it to the articles soon. :) --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 17:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

:I'll defer to the more experienced Wikifolks. Since they don't appear to object, perhaps my concerns are misplaced.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

::It's really just a matter of personal preference. These templates are common practice on Wikipedia, and I think they're quite useful. But this is not Wikipedia of course, so if the editors of WikiFur think the templates are unnecessary, so be it. IMHO, these templates are really neat for readers that aren't that familiar with wikis and they don't really disrupt anything when they're kept small. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 15:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Personally, I think they're great for users who don't visit the wiki often and would like to know more about related topics. In my opinion this is a wikipedia thing we should definitely imitate. :) -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 15:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: I like the template idea, too.
:::: Before getting too far into that, we might want to implement some policies or guidelines for the "look and feel" of templates. Maybe even have a template for the templates that can be copied when creating a new template. :-) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and created the template and added it to the articles. Feel free to edit, tweak and/or revert me as you please. :) --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 23:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

== Anon's Request ==
I believe that I talk for the entire Anonymous Collective when I say that WE DO NOT WANT A 4CHAN ARTICLE ON YOUR SICK PERVERTED FETISHIST WIKIPEDIA CLONE.

Delete this article at once.

:By definition, anonymous has no personal information, and so is not subject to our [[WikiFur:Personal information|personal information policy]]. Request deined. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

== Tone ==
This portrays /b/ as far too accepting of furfags. Anyone who has spent any time on /b/ can see that the furries on that board are in fact, trolls, and few in number. The vast majority of /b/ is strongly opposed to furries, and goes to great lengths to make their lives miserable, including raids on furry havens. {{unsigned|68.158.4.243}}

:そですね？
:Seriously, though, I think that [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] would probably manage to come up with some point about all these raids being a minor <s>amusement</s> annoyance to be endured for all the great free publicity they generate. If we get a genuinely interested party to show up for each raid (and subsequent blocking of IP's), then I'd say we're doing fine. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 21:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

::4chan has failed to be a persistent threat to the security of this website, despite multiple attempts. If we can manage it, I don't see why others can't. However, that wasn't what our anonymous visitor was suggesting. In fact, I ''don't'' think they are strongly opposed to furries. I think they are opposed to whatever suits their mood at that particular moment. Furries are just a favourite topic. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

:Anonymous IP 68.158.4.243, your statement about whether furries are large or small in number on /b/ is the same sort of question of whether /b/ or the whole of 4chan for that matter have a large percentage of pedophiles. Or are most of them trolls pretending to be pedos? We know pedos exist on 4chan and there's pedo-interest, macros like pedobear, and sometimes people even sneak child porn in there, but how many really. On /b/, people talk like 4chan, and /b/ especially, is mostly pedophiles. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

== Caturday ==

Caturday is not a saturday version of furry friday. It is the mass posting of Cats. Not cat porn or furry cat art. LURK MOAR AND GTFO. [[User:DRRDRRDRR|DRRDRRDRR]] 17:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

:Truth, /b/ gets very pissed if you try doing furry in a caturday thread.

== You dickshit furry fuckheads need to correct this ==

Hi furries, this passage:
"On August 08, 2006, 4chan moderators started to strictly enforce its rarely enforced banning rules on posting illegal content (such as CP and JB imagery,) using /b/ to stage, or call for raids, invasions, or mass trolling of other internet communities, specially furry, and the posting of personal information."
...is incorrect. It should be amended to read:
"On August 08, 2006, 4chan moderators started to strictly enforce its rarely enforced banning rules on using /b/ to stage, or call for raids, invasions, or mass trolling of other internet communities, the posting of JB ('Jailbait') imagery, and the posting of personal information."

Two changes: #1) Removed parts that made it seem as though posting child pornography was previously one of the 'rarely enforced banning rules' - Posting child pornography has ALWAYS resulted in an immediate and permanent global ban from 4chan. It was not one of the rules that suddenly started being enforced on /b/day.
#2) Removed part that stated mods started enforcing rule banning people from "mass trolling of other internet communities, specially furry..." - I don't know where you got this 'especially furry' bit from, but there was no evidence that calls to invade furry sites have ever been treated differently from calls to invade other sites.

Yours etc,
--[[User:Anonymovs|Anonymovs]] 18:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

:Incorrect, but thanks for playing ^-^ [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

::Care to elaborate? I won't revert your edits until I here your reasoning, as long as it comes in a timely manner. --[[User:Anonymovs|Anonymovs]] 18:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

:Statements updated, you were originally correct. Requests with terminology like 'dickshits' set off alarms and make twitchy furries cry, lie, and slap back. That's right, furries, slapping your tender mouth. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 23:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

::Thanks Downspin - I will amend the [[7chan]] page which Spirou also reverted to reflect this too, as that page has a passage regarding /b/day as well. I understand the diction of the title of my request would set off alarm bells. --[[User:Anonymovs|Anonymovs]] 00:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

::"twitchy furries cry, lie, and slap back. That's right, furries, slapping your tender mouth" that's uncivil, too. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 02:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

== "References and you: PA for /b/tards." ==

Isn't saved reference fun?:

"Anonymous 08/23/06 23:34 Thread #440 (edit) (quote)
On 2006-08-23, the moderators of /b/ had started to strictly enforce its previously neglected rules on posting illegal content (such as child pornography), plans of raiding other internet communities, and posting personal information. While only the former was met with an undefined ban on the poster of such content, the new rules encompass all three catagories, resulting in bans on the original poster and on anyone posting in the thread, whether they supported the content or not. This caused unrest in the /b/ community; while many lingered to express dissent, deeming the rules to be too harsh, others left to find other image boards at which they could post such content without punishment. This event also coincided with a server crash, which may have been attributed to restructuring to make these rules more easily enforced, a regular server overload, an angered user performing a DDoS crash of the server, or just general technical difficulties."

"File :1156361805.jpg-(69 KB, 730x431)
08/23/06(Wed)14:36:45 No.12082253 [Reply]
Anyone who is dissapointed by the fact that you can now be banned for raiding, or posting CP or JB is not a true /b/-tard. The no raids rule has ALWAYS been there, just badly enforced, and so little actual CP was posted that there might as well have been mods enforcing the rule. Because of the OMG RAIDS and CP loving, we have lost sight of what /b/ truly was: a bunch of people on the Internet making fun of themselves, the Internet, and real life via witty commentary and memes. Many /b/ users don't even know the First rule of the Internet: There are no women on the Internet. END OF STORY. There are traps, and there are camwhores, but there are no women on the Internets. Second, we have forotten our most treasured memes such as Longcat, Dio Brando, and Meximoot. Instead, we have shitty memes such as desu, which most /b/-tards don't even pronounce properly. We're so wrapped up in destroying the furfag threat and raiding websites that we've forgotten what it means to be a /b/-tard. Let's embrace the fact that this new rule enforcement will bring about the Second Golden Age of /b/. Memes will be posted and lol'd at. New memes will be created and will be lol'd at. I predict a slew of Legendary GETS the likes of which /b/ has never seen. Death to CP, JB, furries and raids. Long live Longcat, Cockmongler, and Happy Negro. Long live /b/.
214 posts and 40 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view."

A message from the Wikifur board of Education ^-^ [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 10:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:Well, that's lovely, but you have provided no information as to where these came from. Where is the first passage from? Being post #440 shows that it's definitely not from /b/, so I will ignore this passage for the time being.

:You claimed on your talk page that you are a long time /b/tard. Well, I am too. I know that Moot, a poster on ADTRW on SA started 4chan. I know about its various deaths, I've been present during most of the epic raids, I'm the one who discovered cthuljew's identity after the 4chon video. I was the one who posted 654321 GET. Notice how I haven't brought this up until you started mouthing off about being a /b/tard too, because all this doesn't actually matter. It doesn't matter who's a bigger /b/tard, this is not about whose epenis is bigger. This is about the article, and the precision with which it is written.

:On your talk page you posted:

::''4chan's 2006 /b/ exodus didn't happen just because. No, just enough idiots trying to push the envelope to the breaking point, making the mods life hell until they just let it go,... And the idiots kept pushing, and then the POOL finally CLOSED, and they whined because of their own retarded actions,... And those were posting CP, JB, calling for /i/, and posting personal info.''

:This may be true, however this is irrelevant - it reveals nothing about the enforcement of the rule against posting CP before /b/day. You further post that:

::''Oh, I grant you they tried (the Mods,) but after a while of giving up after being piled on, CP, JB, calling for /i/, and posting personal info became part of the norm of /b/, not the exception like you're trying to rewrite in, so, that's the why/reasons of the reverts Spirou 11:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)''

:You are correct that JB, calling for invasions, and posting personal information became 'part of the norm' of /b/. However, and let me be clear about this, POSTING CP NEVER BECAME A NORM IN /b/. IT WAS NEVER TOLERATED. NO ONE EVER GOT AWAY WITH POSTING IT.

:As for the second passage you posted above, which I happen to know is from /b/ (but as you have not posted any context, other people reading it may be completely lost), anyone who takes seriously the accusation that /b/tards generally LOVE, like, enjoy, or accept CP in any capacity clearly hasn't spent very much time at /b/ at all (as you claim you have done). I obviously have no direct proof of this, but in any case, this is not what I'm trying to argue, merely an ancilliary note.

:More importantly, this second passage you have posted was probably not written by a mod or an admin of 4chan, but composed by an Anonymous poster and stickied as a good summary of what the mods intend the new rules to accomplish. Neither of us know whether it's actually written by a mod or not, and neither of us will ever know, so let's err on the side of caution and treat it as secondary evidence, an interpretation by a user. Thus the opening passage which you've bolded (without noting that the bold is your emphasis) isn't a trustworthy record of events leading up to /b/day.

:In conclusion, allow me to just summarise what I'm arguing here. Prior to /b/day, CP was being posted on /b/. The mods and admin actively enforced their rules against CP, permabanned people who posted it, and removed it as soon as they found it. AFTER /b/day, the same things applied, but anyone who replied to a CP thread was also banned. Thus, it is incorrect for this article to say that on /b/day the mods STARTED enforcing their rules relating to CP.

:Does wikifur have an arbitration system? If so, I will request arbitration if this debate remains mired for much longer. Thank you. --[[User:Anonymovs|Anonymovs]] 12:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:PS: I've just noticed that the first sentence reads '4chan is a 2ch style art community' - I believe this should read '4chan is a 2chan style art community' as 2ch has no imageboards, it is only a discussion board. 4chan arose as a clone of 2chan.

== References ==

Basically 4chan has a lack of references. It's wikipedia article has great trouble with this. Types usable:
# 4chan's blog, which appears to only talk about the financial aspects and nothing to do with furries.
# News sources, which basically are able legal things and nothing to do with furries.
# Wikis that allow original research: ChanChan, Trendpedia, Wikichan. Basically people experienced or researched the information and put it up. Wikichan is usually down and I thought it had a mirror but I can't find it now and it may be down also. Wikichan original is etherchan.org. There's a different site wikichan.org with different content.
# LiveJournal postings. These would be good.
# Screenshots.
# Going there and researching yourself, asking questions and such.

[[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 23:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:Agreed. Sourcing is going to be a major issue for image board articles. We should probably try to find first hand accounts on multiple unrelated livejournals or blogs. However, a statement from an admin of said board or someone in an official representational capacity might just possibly be acceptable. It would probably be in our best interest to leave any judgmental assertive statements any out of the article until some source can be found. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 23:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

:This is good. My little notes: the Wikichan at etherchan.org is the 'fake' wiki that tries to be funny and excessive, the Wikichan at wikichan.org is the wiki that tries to be correct, accurate, and responsible. This would be a good source. ED is another good source, but OMG *sigh* arg. Sceenshots are only good to capture one or two posts, they can be references when the administration makes a post regarding official behavior, but is no good to prove /b/ believes something or acts in a certain way, as the anonymous users are usually contradictory in each post. Going there and researching yourself - what if I live there already? Can I be a source? There's a policy of allowing administrators to be primary sources. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 00:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Spirou

2007-01-04T20:59:03Z

Downspin:

Talk:Sidechan

2007-01-03T18:31:14Z

Downspin: Paging Xenofur to the ER

[[Sage Freehaven]], Rann, Roland, and Kindrift was a trolls that posted ugly stuff. --[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 00:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
* Awww, did somebody get butthurt when we didn't kiss your ass over you posting your art (which, admittedly, isn't even all that good)? --[[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 06:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
** Everybody knows your a troll in this web. --[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 14:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
*** Prove it. >:3 --[[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 05:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

This is NOT a discussion board or forum for these kinds of topics. You are currently in an article's "discussion" page, so, please take this conversation to eMail. First warning [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 06:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

== Question to Mellis (Administrator, Sidechan) ==

If asked properly, has any artist's art or media being removed from the image-board?,... And since I'm asking a sensible Sidechan Admin, is the server now hosted in Germany (Response not required, if you wish, just trying to confirm the added data about it.) Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
* I handle e-mailed requests from users and, if they ask very nicely, and have actual valid reasons, then it can happen. And yes, it is hosted in germany. (A simple lookup of the IP via ARIN or RIPE would've yielded that information.) [[User:Arcturus|Arcturus]] 14:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
** Which is quite irrelevant as it is nowhere to be found in your ToC. --[[User:84.139.184.200|84.139.184.200]] 14:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
*** So? [[User:Arcturus|Arcturus]] 15:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC
**** Probably is based on some sort of "Good faith" unwritten policy where as long as there is a legit complaint (Art was on a sold CD and put on internet by disgruntled customer rather than simple redistribution out of [[VCL]]) and there is simple civility going on between the artist and admin, then it can be taken down. Sort of a reverse "Squeeky wheel gets the boot" type of policy. Not saying I agree with it, but they DO have their bases covered. --[[User:71.115.163.94|71.115.163.94]] 16:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
***** If people are very nice, and don't threaten in any way, usually I will be nice in return. BUt, to date, I believe only one artist has ever been nice/not threatened. [[User:Arcturus|Arcturus]] 18:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

== Message to Xenofur ==
In response to messages and repeated edits by 84.139.184.200 and 84.139.168.37, also known as Xenofur. These edits may constitute harassment and defamation toward the Sidechan service and administrators. You have a history of defamation and supression against Sidechan, if only for the administration's decision to remain free of a DNP list.

I do not believe your current reference has any relevance to an imageboard, if you believe it does then please post another reference where German courts have treated images as 'pornographic writings'. However, it is immaterial if you can find such a reference or not. Let it be known that Sidechan hosts a standard disclaimer for mature websites, very similar to that on fchan, and apparently in compliance with German law. If you believe and feel you must continue to argue, please post a reference that states what a German site must do to make pornography inaccessable to minors. Thank you. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 18:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Sidechan

2007-01-03T15:27:40Z

Downspin: Lulz and Sidechan have the same takedown policy. See talk page.

[[Image:Sidechan Logo.png|280px|right]]
'''Sidechan''' is a image board replacement for [[Lulz.net]]. Its existence was brought about after [[Arcturus]] and [[cho0b]] had a disagreement concerning the former board.

{{rating-ma-button}}
*'''Addressess''':
**'''Main imageboard''' http://sidechan.net/
**'''Discussion forum''': http://sidechan.net/dis/
*'''Owner''': Arcturus
*'''Founders''': Arcturus, [[Mellis]], [[Kiba]], [[Cookie]], [[cbee]]
*'''Administrators''': Arcturus, Mellis, Kiba
*'''Ran from/to''': December 1st, 2006 - present

==Policies and content==

With the exception of the new name, logo, ownership change, and front page disclaimer, Sidechan is virtually identical in both policies and content to Lulz, preferring a hands-off self-regulated feel, with as little moderator action as possible. This is in contrast with [[Fchan]]. which employs a heavy protection of the [[Do Not Post]] list and anti-trolling protection.

==Downsy==

Downsy the Girratalope (a Giraffe-Rat-Jackalope crossbreed) is the mascot of Sidechan. He was created by Mellis so that Sidechan could have something on the splash page (and to poke fun at [[FurAffinity]] mascot Fender). Downsy now stars in his very own comic, [http://downsy.sidechan.net The Adventures of Downsy].

==Controversy==

In order to circumvent the US [[Wikipedia:Copyright|copyright laws]], Sidechan.net was relocated overseas to a German hosting service.[http://whois.domaintools.com/sidechan.net][http://whois.domaintools.com/88.198.215.219]

{{Image boards}}
{{Net-stub}}
[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2006 births]]

Category talk:Gamers

2007-01-03T02:04:52Z

Downspin:

No. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 02:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland

2007-01-03T01:22:35Z

Downspin: /* College? */

I [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Jeremy%2C_the_Duke_of_Otterland&diff=69472&oldid=69458 added] the quote back to the article because it establishes that the subject has a history of trolling on LiveJournal. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed the quote because I'm *not* a troll, and you're just trying to blackmail me.

For those who are trying to blackmail me, quit it; one little incident does *not* make a person a troll.

:First, I'll get the policy stuff out of the way so as to avoid any future misunderstandings:
# Please do not remove other peoples' comments from talk pages. Talk pages contain the history of how an article came and the discussions surrounding it, and are considered a valuable resource that goes along with an article.
# Second, please do not remove text from an article without explanation. That is frowned upon here, and any such changes will almost always be reverted by an admin. That goes for an article, not just this one. If you have an issue with something an article, you should explain on the article's talk page.

:Now, as for the article itself. There seems to be some confusion here as to what "blackmail" really means. Blackmail is [[WikiPedia:Blackmail|defined as]] "the act of threatening to reveal information about a person ... [unless certain demands are met]". That's not the case here. I am not threatening to release any information, I am actively releasing such information, and I am not trying to extort anything from you in the process.

:I feel the quote is appropriate to list here, because not only is it something that you did in fact say, but you [http://duke-otterland.livejournal.com/profile state on your LJ] that you will not tolerate things such as "destructive criticism", "uncivil debate". However, the quote is an exmaple of you doing something which you adamantly claim to be against. I feel that it makes it especially worthy for inclusion in this article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:41, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I know you have some sort of vendetta against me because I made that post, and I'm sorry and will never do it again, I just wish you had been more honest in your User Info that you would post things like that...

:Pretend you're me. You make a post in your LJ, and some random person who you have never heard of before shows up and replies with insults. How would you feel? How do you think I felt when I saw that? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 20:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd ban you from my LJ.

:OK, guys. I've added it in as a reference, not a quote, as I believe it applies specifically to the political side of things. I would note that politics is an area where people often have deeply-held beliefs which may not bring out their best sides when they come into contact with those of the opposite persuasion. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.

I deleted my comment from Giza's LJ entry, so is that link to his entry still relevant?
-Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland

Look, there was absolutely no excuse for what I did in Harli's LJ. I was a complete jerk who grossly overreacted to a post that wasn't even remotely offensive, and completely regret the day I said what I did then. If I could go back in time and prevent myself from saying that, I would gladly do so. I don't want what is posted to Encyclopedia Dramatica blackball me for the rest of my life when I look for a job one day, as I have done my online writing and art only under my pseudonym. So if any of you know anything I can do to get that ED article toned down or removed entirely, please help me. Thanks. --[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 20:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

== Controversy section? ==

Given recent events, namely that 1) the subject of this article has been showing up in the Encyclopedia Dramatica IRC channels demanding that they take down their article about him (and being slightly unclear on how "free speech" works), as well as 2) recent harassment directed at him (publishing of his home address and phone number, breaking into some of his accounts, etc.), do folks think it would be worthwhile to start a "controversy" section in the article?

Keep in mind that such a section wouldn't necessarily be to cast blame on the subject of the article, but rather to document actions taken by both parties in the dispute. Thoughts? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 23:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

:I vote in favor. May his behavior and the consequences to such be an example. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 23:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

::Ditto Downspin. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 23:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
::Downspin, your comment lends a vigilante legitimacy to the actions of his provocateur. No one deserves harassing phone calls for acting like a fool on IRC. What he did was not acceptable, but neither were the actions of his provocateur. Like I said below, give him one last chance. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 00:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:I would like to wait a few days or a week or so to see what happens. He deleted his LJ here within the last 24 hours, and may be attempting to extricate himself from this mess once and for all. Should that be the case, I think it would be wise just let all of this go and allow him to get on with his life. I think that we need to give some consideration to documenting this kind of stuff here, both now and in the future, rather than blindly documenting every random drama episode. Personally, I think documenting it lends legitimacy to (foolish, IMHO) actions of both sides. We ''are'' after all, the furry version of Wikipedia, and with that comes some credible authority on matters of the fandom. Let's use it wisely. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 00:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:''Postscript'': If he continues to allow himself to be provoked by the ED crowd, by all means, go ahead and write it up in the article. I am simply arguing for giving him a last chance of sorts.

:: I'm cool with waiting for a week or even longer. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

== College? ==

4 Associate degrees at age 22? Plus this seems to suggest he is pursuing two different bachelor's degree programs at two different universities. I'm not doubting him, but wow... that's a hell of a lot. I'm just doublechecking the accuracies of this.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 00:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:That reminds me... assuming that the [http://tinyurl.com/ewzn8 article] about him on Encyclopedia Dramatica is accurate, he is apparently "disabled" to the point of getting Social Security benefits. This makes me skeptical about his academic claims. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

::From what I understand, he is autistic. Perhaps that gives him a certain level of genius? Think Rain Man.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 00:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I think he has [[wikipedia:Asperger's Syndrome|Asperger's Syndrome]]. From what I've seen of him and my familiarity with the condition, it seems a rather severe case. So pretty close to autism. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 01:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::That is, specifically, a form of autism. I know of no cases of Savant Syndrome, another form, expressing alongside Asperger's. Even if he was so afflicted, I still find it highly unlikely he could earn four two year degrees in under four years, write a novel, and participate in so much drama. I wouldn't say he lies, but it's more likely he's shaping reality to fit his fantasy. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 01:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland

2007-01-02T23:48:43Z

Downspin: /* Controversy section? */

Sidechan

2007-01-02T23:41:29Z

Downspin: rv: Lulz never honored takedown requests, and a section on weaknesses is not necessary

[[Image:Sidechan Logo.png|280px|right]]
'''Sidechan''' is a image board replacement for [[Lulz.net]]. Its existence was brought about after [[Arcturus]] and [[cho0b]] had a disagreement concerning the former board.

{{rating-ma-button}}
*'''Addressess''':
**'''Main imageboard''' http://sidechan.net/
**'''Discussion forum''': http://sidechan.net/dis/
*'''Owner''': Arcturus
*'''Founders''': Arcturus, [[Mellis]], [[Kiba]], [[Cookie]], [[cbee]]
*'''Administrators''': Arcturus, Mellis, Kiba
*'''Ran from/to''': December 1st, 2006 - present

==Policies and content==

With the exception of the new name, logo, ownership change, and front page disclaimer, Sidechan is virtually identical in both policies and content to Lulz, preferring a hands-off self-regulated feel, with as little moderator action as possible. This is in contrast with [[Fchan]]. which employs a heavy protection of the [[Do Not Post]] list and anti-trolling protection.

==Downsy==

Downsy the Girratalope (a Giraffe-Rat-Jackalope crossbreed) is the mascot of Sidechan. He was created by Mellis so that Sidechan could have something on the splash page (and to poke fun at [[FurAffinity]] mascot Fender). Downsy now stars in his very own comic, [http://downsy.sidechan.net The Adventures of Downsy].

{{Image boards}}
{{Net-stub}}
[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2006 births]]

Talk:4chan

2007-01-02T23:27:28Z

Downspin:

4chan

2007-01-02T23:21:25Z

Downspin: Corrections and expansions, added statement about furry population, removed unsourced statements about 'specially furry communities', see also, grammar, spelling

[[Image:4chan.png|right]]
{{rating-nc17-button2}}
'''4chan''' is a [[2ch]] style art community founded by [[Something Awful]] goons, with English content. Visitors submit content in various categories, such as: /h/ for [[Wikipedia:Hentai|Hentai]], /d/ for alternative hentai, /y/ for [[Wikipedia:Yaoi|Yaoi]], /t/ for [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|torrents]], etc. Prior to 2005 it also allowed [[Wikipedia:Loli|Lolicon]] and [[Wikipedia:Shotacon|Shota]], however, these categories were moved to [http://not4chan.org/ '''not4chan.org'''], due to TOS violations. 4chan also incorporates more innocent categories such as "Papercraft and Origami", "Videogames", "Animals and Nature", "Mecha", among others.

* '''Address''': http://www.4chan.org/
* '''Founder''': [[Moot]]
* '''Administrators''': ?
* '''Ran from/to''': 2003 - present

==4chan and furries==

For the first year or so of its existence, the majority of people on 4chan looked down upon furries and even [[funny animal]] cartoons as a nuisance that did not belong on an anime board. If a moderator could identify a furry, they would ban him or her for a number of months.

However, /b/, a random board where anything could be posted within U.S. law, soon grew into its own culture, centered around anonymity and rebellious against any sort of rules imposed on it from outside. "Furry Friday" became a regular feature of /b/, as every Friday the furries would come out of the woodwork and flood both clean art and pornography, to the disgust of some other /b/ users (who would often complain that it was the "wrong day" if furry art was posted on any other day).

The above turnaround happened around the time 4chan pulled a stunt called April Furs Day<ref ><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/April_Furs_Day</nowiki> April Furs Day at [[Encyclopedia Dramatica]]</ref><ref>[http://www.trendpediawiki.com/April_Furs_Day April Furs Day] at [[Trendpedia]]</ref>. April 1, 2005 4chan created a /fur/ board and told people that furry images should go in there instead of /b/. This became the most active board of all 4chan. Most people assumed it was an April Fools Day joke and expected it to be gone the next day. Some people complained about it in /b/ and /fur/. April 2nd, it remained and people against it tried to flood it with non-furry images, such as EroGuro--the moderators banned those people. On April 3, the moderators removed the board and banned every person who had posted in it--including those who complained about it in /fur/. The banning almost completely eliminated all furry postings for the next several months. April Furs Day was a major act of [[fursecution]] and 4chan did not repeat it in 2006.

A short time prior to the April Furs Day event, to balance the growing demand for furry art and to provide a place for furry artwork to be posted without risk of removal or banning from an admin (as 4chan's owner proclaimed it was an anime website and would never add any furry or cartoon board), a mysterious user named [[Dr. Pon]] found hosting for [[Fchan]], one of the first and most popular furry imageboards.

Today, approximately 15% of /b/ users identify themselves as furries, and another 30% enjoy furry artwork.<ref>http://wasted.ig3.net/stuff/bSurvey.xls - results from a survey in /b/, Excel document format. View original results [http://wasted.ig3.net/stuff/bSurvey-Data/ here].</ref>

==4chan and WikiFur==

On several occasions since [[WikiFur]] began, some members of 4chan's /b/ community have committed widespread vandalism to the wiki. Such vandalism is similar to pranks on Wikipedia and other wikis.

==4chan and the 2006 /b/ exodus==
[[Image:NevarForget2.png|right]]
On August 08, 2006, 4chan moderators started to strictly enforce its rarely enforced rules against using /b/ to stage, or call for raids, invasions, or mass trolling of other internet communities, and the posting of personal information. Prior, strongly enforced rules against the posting of illegal content (such as '''CP''' and '''JB''' imagery) were expanded to disallow anything questionable or "gray area".

Originally the administration would banish both the original poster of, and anyone posting in, any threads promoting invasion, release of personal information, or illegal content. Punishment could last for two weeks or longer, or be permanent, depending on the offense.
[[Image:NevarForget.jpg|thumb|left|/b/ drama]]
This caused a great deal of unrest in the /b/ community; while half stayed around to express dissent, deeming the rules to be too harsh, others left to find other image boards at which they could post such content without punishment. This event also coincided with a server crash, which may be attributed to server restructuring to more easily enforce the new rules, a regular server overload, anti-4chan users performing a DDoS attack, or just general technical difficulties.

After a few failed attempts to set roots elsewhere, the more extreme /b/ users found a new home at the [[7chan]] image board, which had to expand to accommodate the new influx of users. Since their departure, the 4chan mods instituted a less "harsh" set of rules to abide by:

"''Policy Enforcement (v2)''

''There's been a lot of confusion and disapproval about the "new rules", so I'd like to clear things up and revise the policy slightly. When you bump a thread in /b/, it takes longer for it to die. So if you bump a thread with illegal content, that illegal content stays on the board longer, and 4chan gets angry letters. Rather than relying on the moderators working around the clock on every board to delete things, we're asking for your help to make 4chan's system work.''

''To discourage participation in illegal threads, it's now against the rules to reply to a thread with illegal content. If you post in these threads, you will be banned for 2 weeks, regardless of whether you "contributed" to the thread or not. If you see a thread that breaks these rules, just report it and ignore it.''

''In addition, "Jailbait" threads, private forum/wiki invasions, and posting personal information are examples of things that aren't illegal but still open us to legal threats. We will not ban all replies to these threads, but we will delete them and issue bans to the thread starter or other major participants if necessary. The rules have not changed with regards to these borderline-legal threads.''

''Our goal is to keep 4chan fun and unrestrictive, so we hope that these common-sense rules won't be much of a burden.''"

7chan's /b/ users continue to practice to this day their old board philosophy towards the [[furry fandom]].

==/b/ terminology==
(Both 4chan and 7chan /b/ communities share the following terms. These terms are those most likely to be heard during invasions.)

*'''Anonymous Does Not Forgive''': The battlecry of many /b/ raiders. The anonymous users of /b/ commit to a course of action and retaliate against perceived insults and attacks.
*'''/b/tard''': Both a derisive ("retard") and a self-identifying term for /b/ users.
*'''Caturday''': Every Saturday, /b/ users mass post images of cats and kittens to /b/.
*'''GTFO FURFAG''' ("Get The Fuck Out[,] [[Furfag]]"): A [[Wikipedia:Memetic|memetic]] [[Wikipedia:Internet_slang|net slang]] term used on anybody posting [[furry art]] on 4chan, specially /b/.
*'''DESU''': A catchphrase used by Suiseiseki in [[Wikipedia:Rozen Maiden|Rozen Maiden]]. It is a Japanese sentence closure and literally means "it is". /b/ has taken and exaggerated this catchphrase: it is often spammed to make up meaningless replies, a rotated version ''nsәp'' and ASCII version are also used. "Desu" may also refer to the character Suiseiseki. Furry Desu or Furseiseki is a furry fan creation; she is a [[fox]].
*'''CP''': [[Wikipedia:Child_pornography|Child Pornography]].
*'''JB''': "Jailbait" (underage [ [[Wikipedia:Tween_(demographics)|"tween"]] ] porn.)
*'''/r/''': '''R'''equest (i.e. "/r/ the following file")

== References ==

<references />

==See also==

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan 4chan] on [[Wikipedia]]
*[http://wikichan.org/wiki/Main_Page WikiChan] by and for *chan users

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Mature image boards]]

Talk:Encyclopædia Dramatica (.com)

2006-12-06T21:00:03Z

Downspin:

Good lord, man. Could you at least try for an NPOV? I'd say the majority of this article needs a rewrite (which I'd work on were I not at work...)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 16:31, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Admin promotion and the "GreenReaper" section ==

I removed the part about admin promotion, as it was not specific. If you're thinking [[Verix]], he's from SA, not ED - or are you lumping "all people from websites like ED and SA" into the same category, like people lump "all furries" into one? And if you '''are''' aiming at Verix, I think you'll have a hard time denying that [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&namespace=&target=Verix&limit=500&offset=0 his contributions] have value.

I'm not an "Encyclopedia Dramatican". I've not been involved with that site until people from it started coming on and I decided to correct the article they made about us. I've not been active on there outside that. Besides, if I was going to contribute to a site like that, I'd go for the [http://uncyclopedia.org/ Uncyclopedia], which is hosted by Wikia. Fortunately, I have better things to do than contribute to either. :-)

Also, do you have a source for that quote? I know I've said something like that (and the sentiment is correct), but I thought I phrased it differently, and I think I was talking about SA, not ED. If you're going to make quotes that make anyone look bad to some people, it's your job to ensure that they're a) verifiable, and b) relevant. '''*grin*'''

Frankly, I think that most of my actions are not particularly relevant to the ED article - they're more general "trying to make sure that people hear about WikiFur, even if some of them are people that are critical of furries". They may, of course, be worth talking about, and I encourage debate about whether or not my decisions are correct, but I don't think this is the best place.

(By the way - when people put a section marked "Criticisms", I instantly think "someone with a point to make". It's a dead ringer for trouble on Wikipedia, and it's just the same here. Having that section alone is probably NPOV - we should not '''state''' criticisms, but ''attribute'' them to others.) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. So, it's OK to [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=11006#GreenReaper put] a "These choices he has made are controversial, but nothing can be done about them.", but it's not OK to specify who the people who seem to think it controversial are, and it ''is'' OK to have a whole section on me, even considering the above? :-)

:I don't actually disagree with [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Dramatica&diff=next&oldid=12379 the removal] of that section of text, but then I don't think that the topic should have been there in the first place. It had nothing to do with ED. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:13, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Rollback ==
Oh, so that's what the Rollback link does. Whoops. Anyway to provide explanation - the laundry list of organizations which were listed here basically recapitulated Category:Anti-furries and were unrelated to the subject of the article.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 22:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

i'm not the founder of encyclopedia dramatica. i don't even do anything on that site. you should check your facts. -jameth :)

:Do you have any URLs that you can point us to so that we can update the entry accordingly? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 22:53, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::URLs for what? if you look at the domain registry and the admin information for ED , you could easily find out who runs the thing. and my name isn't on there. :) jameth
:::Oh wow. Mediacrat's arch nemesis comes up again in my life. Awesome. How ya been, Jameth? I remember you from the LJ Drama stuff. Guys, he didn't found ED, that was Sherrod DeGrippo. Jameth was the REASON why Sherrod created ED, but he's the creator of it, not Jameth[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::::hay epal :D -[[User:67.168.99.128|67.168.99.128]] 02:46, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) (jameth)

=== from [[User talk:Siege]] ===
Wikipedia said that was his real name,and ED was complaining that Wikifur could not get the founders name right. Are you saying that was his real name? -- 15:52, 21 June 2006 [[User:67.23.176.12]]

:The ED was founded on the principle of mocking everyone. It's not that we can't get the guy's name right; it's that there hasn't been an authoritative source who has come to us to get it fixed if we're wrong. Leave a message with [[User talk:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] about that, would you? -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 03:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

== FurAffinity Shutdown ==

Being a security nut in the computer industry, I've heard a remarkably different version of the FurAffinity Shutdown story. From what I've heard, it was brought down due to its head of security not wishing to apply proper security, and someone who knew this suggested it was fair game. This type of manuever is done often by companies wishing to remove a site that is popular (it costs too much to maintain securely) or by employees who wish to point out vulernabilities without going through the proper chain of command (it's unsafe, so fix it.. we will when someone breaks it.. imagine that, someone broke it). Are we absolutely certain that ED intiated the attack, or should that be removed from the article?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:34, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
*Since I'm a regular countributor at ED, I doubt you people will belive me, but the attack against FurAffinity was not made by a person directly related to ED. Someone attacked FurAffinity and after the attack, that person started the FurAffinity article to brag about its crappy security. (Besides the edits on the FurAffinity article, he only made something like 10 other edits) It's quite common for people who start drama on the Internet to register on ED and write an article about it. That doesn't mean they were related to ED, however. Also, from what I remember, Redcard is right about one thing, FurAffinity had crappy security, since the passwords were all stored in plain text. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible to hack a site and retrieve all passwords like that, because passwords are either encrypted or hashed. Obviously, I'm all for misinformation, but since someone asked about the facts, I might as well tell you what I know. :p (I was online editing ED in the night the article was started) --[[User:213.146.205.145|213.146.205.145]] 16:02, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)
**No, they weren't stored in plain text. They were stored using (most likely) a one-way cryptographic hash. The attack consisted of obtaining the entire list of these hashes (though some sort of flaw), then throwing dictionary words through the hash function until the attacker found some matches. Still crappy security, but not in the same category as 'plain text passwords' crappy. --[[User:62.253.96.42|62.253.96.42]] 17:25, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

== WTF?! ==

E.D. was founded by "[[Joseph Evers]]"? WTF?!
Wasn't it founded by some [[girlvinyl|ugly whore]] going by the name "[[girlvinyl]]"?
Or is "she" a [[girlvinyl|transvestite guy]], IRL Joseph Evers?
Or wat?

====Links====
*http://girlvinyl.com/ - Site of "girlvinyl".



== editing ==
This article is POV bullshit, I am editing it -- [[User:71.255.235.56]]

:Not much of an edit, and it certainly didn't improve the POV any. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 05:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

:More importantly, since the user also vandalized [[Talk:Something Awful]], this brings the validity of any other edits they have made into question. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 06:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== NPOV on Criticisms section ==

Actually, I'm not sure if the NPOV template is the best one to use, but anyway...

The second paragraph in the criticisms section accused ED of being "litigious" and using DMCA takedown notices. I think we need to have some evidence of this if we want to keep that section on the page. Citing my own experience here in WikiFur, I know of no legal threats/DMCA notices made against us, the most that's happened to the article is repeated vandalism attempts against it. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

* We should really remove that "What is unfunny" spiel. Merely putting quotations around the first 'unfunny' is enough to call it into question without launching a rant. --Brody
* For someone saying that most admins aren't minors, it used to be so until they de-admined many of their bad admins. Now it's just some. (this is funny, too) [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Joseph Evers theory ==

Perhaps he is the CrayolaCrime who is (girlvynl) Sherrod Degrippo's husband? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 02:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
*Wrong. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 10:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Please either provide evidence to support or refute the theory. -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 11:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
**I'm not gonna provide evidence, but Joseph Evers is not married to GV. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 11:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
***Which one on ED is Joseph Evers? Ghettofinger? [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
****Joseph Evers is much too important to admin ED. He just collects ad revenue. [[User:71.112.141.236|71.112.141.236]] 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Joseph Evers again ===

Is there any evidence that this guy actually exists? IMHO, this guy was just made up so the guys at ED can laugh at everyone who actually believes them. [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Image:Josephletter.jpg Just look at stuff like this], how can anyone take that seriously? If you're an admin on the english wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=Talk%3AEncyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&timestamp=20060712182832 have a look here]:
Joseph Evers bought ED from DeGrippo in mid-2005. Why would this be made up?
*Because it is stupid. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 18:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(SchmuckyTheCat is an ED admin who should know who owns the site.)

We're just being trolled with this, that's all. They tried it on Wikipedia, they try it here. --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 16:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I read that girlvinyl sold it to him because the site made no money and then so Joseph Evers put up banner ads on the site. The site was founded by her, I believe and not Joseph. I think you will need to ask them yourself, though. As for the site, its info says it's registration is private. http://samspade.org/t/lookat?a=encyclopediadramatica.com I think it would be easier to figure it out if non-admins on wikipedia could see the hidden edits in the history you mentioned, then it would be easier to know if it was just trolling. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::The ED article on Wikipedia got deleted, that's why the talk page is deleted, too. So sadly, non-admins can't see the edits right now. See also [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Typhon/Chat_log this log], search for his name. Doesn't really sound like they're very serious about them, does it? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 21:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::The log basically claims Joseph Evers is a furry, which doesn't sound serious. I vaguely remember their article on wikipedia and I think people debated Joseph Evers. They used to say the same thing about SchmuckyTheCat, who you quoted, that the person's a furry, so maybe they're the same. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Google "Joseph Evers". It says he is president of the GNAA, too. So whatever this means, who knows? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 05:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

:ED says a lot of things. I think all we should be saying is that girlvinyl is the current lead administrator of the site, whether or not she founded it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== Naming Names ==
Regarding the recent edits by WolfLupus, is this considered a personal attack on personal attackers? o.O I'm not sure whether this should stay as is, be edited to remove names, or removed completely. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:I originally didn't have names. I just put in vaguely without names. I added them because of this edit http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Dramatica&curid=3443&diff=71139&oldid=71137 to back up with sources. I think it shouldn't have names, but Spirou is happier with them in. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::No, it wasn't the names, it was the deletion of the "Furaffinity," "Greenreaper," "See also," and "External links" sections that prompted the reversal [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Ooops. That was by accident. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::::For the record, I prefer having the names removed, but leaving the statement in, as the article currently stands. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Update since other revisions. I hope the stuff I did was good. I tried to go through the article. [[User:WolfLupus|WolfLupus]] 22:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!! ==

Whatever you do, do not go to this horrible site. It is absolutely awful and should not be on the intneret. It is offensive, racist and sexist and uses obscene language every chance possible. This does not even begin to touch on the obscene and gross images displayed on almost every article of the site. DO NOT GO TO THIS SITE IT SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST!!!!

:And that would be why we have the NC-17 logo on the article. Readers can decide on their own whether they want to visit the site or not. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Just wondering ==
Am I the only one who noticed all the [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Riboflavin gooks], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Sheneequa niggers], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Quasidan kikes], [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Samsara dotheads], and [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Paco650 spics] they have as admins? And ''these'' are the people making fun of us for being furries. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 18:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for playing "I'm one you guys, really!," Whiteandpround, and here is your parting gift, please refrain from using racist or incendiary comments on the wikifur comment sections. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::I am a proud white rhino. On WikiFur I noticed everyone is white, so I like this site. [[User:Whiteandproud|Whiteandproud]] 19:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:::...And I'm the Queen of England ^-^ As powerful as I am, I still can't determine somebody's skin color by the way somebody types, but I can verily identify a very poor way to try to incite "OMGDrama" on a site. Again, thanks for playing, I will be here all week, don't forget to tip the buffet, and try your waitress =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

== Furry month ==

ED has decided to make September 07 Furry month with all their front page articles be furry related. See [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center#Main_Page_challenge here]. {{unsigned|217.160.109.40}}

== Defamation ==

These people are using my art without my permission and posting inflammatory material about me. I tried editing the nasty article about me but got banned for being a "blanker." I just wonder if I can fight them in any way.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:Did you try [[User talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|what I suggested last time]]? It probably won't get any of the text off, but their provider should require them to remove the images that belong to you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I do remember them saying they turned down my request because "Duke Otterland is not a real person," but I'm trying again.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 23:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Whoever "they" are, they are right, unless you have legally changed your real-life name. The DMCA takedown notice must be named and signed by the copyright holder. It should be sent to the host I mentioned there - I would not recommend sending it directly to ED. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Is it even worth fighting them?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 00:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Possibly the best question to ask. You can probably get your images off there, but frankly they're just likely to add new images. The more fuss you make, the more fun they have. They're probably not going to go away, but really, who cares what they think?
:::::I would note that "inflammatory" is not the same as "completely untrue". They are an encyclopedia of drama. They are only paying attention to you in the first place because you are a source of it. Become uninteresting to them, and you will find them less inclined to care about you. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

== Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur ==

While I do not intend to change the point-of-view of this article (as (a) I am an ED sysop (b) ED is negative about almost everyone, including furries, and this has resulted in a widespread dislike of ED among the furry community), I would like to draw attention to several inaccuracies in this article.

I would like to point out that Encyclopedia Dramatica does not organise vandalism attacks against WikiFur or indeed any other wiki. While policy was unclear on this in the past, it has recently been codified (see the ED page ED:MIGRANT (I cannot paste the URL, as the spam filter prevents me)). To quote from said page,

* Vandalism: Enyclopedia Dramatica, despite the allegations of Wikipedia, is not a vandalism wiki. While ED does not attempt to regulate the actions of its users outside this website, ED does not organize nor support trolling campaigns. If that's what you're looking for, try 7chan or the GNAA.

* Attack articles: Again, due to untrue allegations by other wikis, you may be under the perception that ED is an attack site. We are not; we are a lulz site. Attacking people is fine so long as there is lulz in it; if there is no lulz, there will shortly be no article. If the target of the article attempts to vandalise or blank it, that creates lulz, so please make sure that the subject knows what you said about them.

While I understand that you would be reticent to accept sources from any site (especially one as notorious as ED) as definitive proof about that site, I would like to point out that ED:MIGRANT is a policy page. Blu Aardvark is an independent person, and as stated above, ED does not attempt to regulate the "extra- curricular activities" of ED users- apart from anything else, such an attempt would be doomed to failure on the internet.

I also have an issue with the statement of there being "little editorial control"- while this may well have been true in the past, ED administrators maintain a high standard of "control" ( I hesitate to use the term "quality", as this is subjective and I doubt that many WikiFur users have a high opinion of ED.)

Thanks, --[[User:Yirimyah|Yirimyah]] 08:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

:I can verify some of what this person has stated. I've done my share of poking around the site in the last few months (even registering an account and explicitly identifying myself as a fur) and they do seem to have policies about articles and their content. They have had to deal with vandalism incident of their own, as well, wherein subjects try to blank articles, etc. (sound familliar? :-)
: We should probably fix this article up a little. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

===Personal details===
No. Flat-out, no. It doesn't add to the article, and is deliberately inflammatory. I find it ironic that you Wikipedos and furfags feel justified in listing my personal details, and yet you would literally throw a tissy fit if I returned the favor, even going to the point of threating mock legal action. I won't go there, but don't make me bust out my sockpuppets. --[[User:72.160.123.9|72.160.123.9]] 23:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

:If you are the person mentioned in the article, personal information may be reverted if asked for. Please refer to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/WikiFur:Personal_exclusion, and contact any available Admin to submit such request. General blanking just leads to an automatic article reversal. Thanks [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::I don't give a shit about the games you play here. The admins of this wiki should not allow that kind of crap to begin with. Also... vandalism? The fuck? I will continue to remove the offensive edit, because there is no excuse for it to be here to begin with. --[[User:72.160.120.252|72.160.120.252]] 10:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

:::The section does not contain personal information. It has an IP address Blu Aardvark used 12.169.174.250 and then a city, which are both ruled at least by placed like LiveJournal not to count as personal information. Then it just gives proof of vandalism ties between Blu Aardvark and elsewhere, also proving he is an administrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica. The only thing that might be related are the links to Blu Aardvark's own websites nextphaze.net and phazecomputing.net where Aardvark choses to give out his personal information there. So I believe I have proved that the section does not have personal information. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say it's alright as long as the person in question is alright with it. Which I personally doubt. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

::::I say you have proved nothing. I also suggest that you are full of shit.--[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

To Blu Aardvark, I think you should refrain from furry insults since I can tell you obviously took your name from the furry comic [[The_Ant_and_the_Aardvark]]. The article says, "''The Ant and the Aardvark was a series of theatrical cartoons produced at DePatie-Freleng Enterprises from 1969 to 1971, about a'' '''blue aardvark''' ''always trying to catch a red ant named Charlie.''" [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 21:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Furfags always want to see furries, don't they? Fact: I chose the name "Aardvark" because I have a transient tic disorder, and in the past, one of my tics was that would occasionally blurt out "Aardvark". I chose the preface "Blu" when signing up for an online game. Aardvark was already taken, and I always hated the idea of appending random numbers, so I appending a second word to the beggining. There was a character limit, so my second word was limited to three characters; I chose "Blu" as fitting nicely and having a ring to it. I assure you that it had nothing to do with some furfag's fanfiction. --[[User:72.160.90.108|72.160.90.108]] 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some furvert threatened me with a ban for "vandalism", ie, removing the aforementioned personal details. As an example, I left an edit in the article to clearly show you what vandalism is, since you fucks don't seem to know the difference. The fact of the matter is, you're entire ED and Wikifur section is rather irrelevant, except to enlarge your e-penis. Some Encyclopedia Dramatica editors, myself included, have vandalized Wikifur. We've also vandalized a handful of other Wikia as well; you aren't special in that regard. But is that in any way relevant to the article? And even if it is, are the personal details really necessary? You and I both know that the only reason they are included is so that you idiots can feel morally superior. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, I think the reason is to encourage you not to do it again by leaving clear evidence tying you to the previous attacks, which you seem interested in removing. Whether or not that is a valid approach is up for debate, but it is perhaps understandable given the circumstances. No community likes those who attempt to disrupt it, and our personal information policy does not cover concealing deliberate acts of vandalism. Indeed, there seems little here that is connected to you, the RL person - just you, the vandal.

:My main question would be whether or not most of it should be covered '''here''', or [[WikiFur:Encyclopedia Dramatica Vandal (Blu Aardvark)|here]]. I'm inclined towards the latter, as it is a project matter, and you are not necessarily a representative of ED.

:You are welcome to try to break out your sockpuppets, but they will not avail you here. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::I honestly don't care if you list it on a project page, but it does not belong here in the article. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 05:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
::Also, related: I'm actually more likely just to ignore you furfags. Attempting to re-instate the information is actually more likely to encourage me to vandalize again, in more creative and/or desparate ways. --[[User:72.160.101.152|72.160.101.152]] 07:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

=== Let's back up, and slow down ===
Allow me to clarify my specific concerns with the article. First, it is misrepresentative. The vandalism I performed as [[User:Jewbo Wales]] was not targetted at WikiFur in particular.(Indeed, I could care less about WikiFur, if it weren't for the current insistence that my personal details be included in this article.) Nor was it a result of coordination with Encyclopedia Dramatica - if you recall, I vandalized solo, and didn't get all that much in before the account was blocked (eight edits or so, maybe more, maybe less). It was a semi-random wikia that I selected to "rape" when I was engagine in a cross-wiki vandalism spree (I did it for the lulz, in case you were wondering). It was the second of four that I vandalized before I got bored and moved on.

Second, it is quite bothersome and PoV to see my personal details listed in such a manner as to essentially slam a site which I am involved in.

And third, for crying out loud, it's my personal details. I make it simple enough for interested people to find that information out (it's not like I'm hiding or anything), but I don't intend for that information to be copied all across the internets. It's flat-out rude to do so.

So, I once again request that the information be removed. It really doesn't add anything to the article (other than a sense of moral superiority against those blasted vandals), is quite offensive, and is misrepresentative of the way things are. --[[User:Aardvark sockpuppet|Aardvark sockpuppet]] 08:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

:What really needs to happen is that this entire article should be rewritten. It jumps from one topic to another, and sounds like it's been written by a series of people, each with their own little grudge or point to make - since it has.
:For this specific section, I think we need to decide what facts should go into here, and which should not. Here are some that spring to mind which may or may not be appropriate to use in the article:
:* Several ED articles link to WikiFur, and there is a regular (if relatively small) stream of traffic from the site to WikiFur.
:* ED users (some of whom were admins) have edited articles on WikiFur. Some have done so openly under their own names, at least one under an assumed name intended to be real, some under obvius vandal names, some without logging in.
:* Many, though not all of the article edits made by ED users have been detrimental to WikiFur. Some appear to be done "on behalf of" ED, others do not.
:* Those who have been known to made detrimental edits to WikiFur include Blu_Aardvark (who is an admin) and [to be fair] Samsara (who is not)
:** We have strong reason to believe that Samsara made such edits due to his simultaneous editing of articles on ED and articles here under another name.
:** We have strong reason to believe that Blu_Aardvark made such edits because the pattern of his edits and templates used matches that of an ED user, and his IP matches up to that of his edits on Wikipedia, where he was banned.
:* The detrimental edits made by Blu_Aardvark were relatively trivial, and easily reverted. He later moved onto other Wikia wikis.
:The current use of the disputed personal information is to identify the owner of the account [[User:Jewbo Wales]] as Blu_Aardvark. As it appears to be accepted by all, there seems to be no pressing need for that information to remain. It is indeed not hard to find if you know the name Blu_Aardvark and are of a mind to look, as it is publicly posted on his ED website. The IP can be referenced by the Wikipedia article. This information can be located on the above user page.
:I think that we ''should'' note prominent members of ED who have been known to vandalise here, especially if they tried to hide that fact. As much as they might like it not to reflect on ED, admins in particuar are representatives of the site even if they work alone. '''I''' wouldn't go around vandalising Wikipedia, because it would reflect badly on WikiFur once I was found out (as well as being incredibly futile). If they don't like that . . . well, they shouldn't do it, and if they ''continue'' to do it (being rude to us), other steps need to be taken to get them to stop (which may include being rude to them). If that is not necessary, though, then they should not be taken. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

::Why not? Punishing a group for the actions of individuals sounds great to me. So does fighting rudeness with rudeness. Generally, an eye for an eye is an effective problem-solving technique. [[User:68.101.67.48|68.101.67.48]] 07:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, sooner or later one party or group runs out of eyes, so yes. It's probably not an ideal solution, though. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on edit histories, 68.101.67.48 is ED user Miltopia. [[User:ED is not Furry enough until now|ED is not Furry enough until now]] 13:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

==correction==
Girlvinyl sold the site to Joseph Evers about a year or more ago, and I (User:Weev on ED) now have root on the ED server. GV doesn't really have anything to do with the site any longer except as a user and beaurecrat. --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:You should put it up somewhere on the site in a protected area so it is sourced instead of heresay or original research as it is now. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:: http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/ --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Has the word "test" on it. :-) {{unsigned|GreenReaper}} 15:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
:::: .... I edited a test server page. I have demonstrated my control of the DNS. What more do you want? --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Ahh I see what you mean. My squid cache is misconfigured and is caching the old copy of the page. I will have to work on this later as I am going to bed, but i copied the new version here for you to read: curl http://911.encyclopediadramatica.com/sdf.html --[[User:209.145.84.66|209.145.84.66]] 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

== Remove that stupid site! ==

This is way out of control about that stupid site, there all lies. REALLY LIES, NOT TRUE, MAKING FUN WITH ALL OUR FAVORITE CELEBRITY! I want that remove right now!

--[[User:Andres Chung, Jr.|Dragon-morph]] 20:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

: Can you be more specific about what parts of that site are untrue? Even if there are lies on there, that does not mean that we should not have an article about them.

: As for making fun of others, I would like to remind you that the participants of that site have the same rights to free speech that the rest of us do. If you do not like their speech, you are free to exercise your own rights to free speech and disagree with them. (or even call them names back, if it makes you feel any better) But that is not necessarily any justification of censoring any mention of them. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

:I read the ED article on you and I saw in one of their claims regarding your language skills, they cite edit diffs from Wikifur as proof so their site is not 100% untrue. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::Heh, I read your comment in my RSS reader and I thought that [[Giza]] had an ED article. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::: Sadly, I am lulz-impaired. I do have [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Dmuth an account] there, though. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== ED Trolls ==

Jeez the article is being rewritten by ED trolls. I noticed how they hate to have mention the fact that most of ED's images are gay porn. Hmmm... What would MONGO do if he were here now? [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 04:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
*He would ban dozens of productive contributors for no reason. Is that what you want to happen here? What trolling has occurred? It seems our edits are accurate to me. [[User:Redfur|Redfur]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha these edits what the Christ? --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Lulz.net

2006-12-01T07:52:23Z

Downspin: combattery

"Please check your facts instead of making things up". I do "This is not the first time this has happened, you've made up facts on the Wtfur entry as well that were blatantly untrue. It reflects very poorly on you." see below

Actually, everything that I wrote down was accurate (I did not say Palcomix was the first cub thread, it was the one the attracted the most flak, and yes I was aware about the rest of the cub threads, but, again the Palcomix one was the one people complained the most, enough to attract the attention of CYD, enough to make a "Controversy" section about it.)

But thank you for enhancing the WTF, your help adding to articles is appreciated ^-^ [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

==Uh, point?==

The paragraph "Many visitors to Lulz take issue with the board's "hands-off" approach to posting and moderation, allowing all manner of topics ranging from clean art, standard straight and gay art of a sexual nature, to vore, scat and cub art, to be posted side-by-side on the site's singular topical board, /furi" is listed twice on two different sections, Melly, just FYI [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 18:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

==Clean-up==
I gave the article a once-over, as there was a bit of redundant/duplicate information, the controversy section data seemed all bundled together, plus the article flow need a bit of correction. If a WTFur Admin want's to give it a look see for accuracy,... [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== Recent Edits ==

Someone needs to validate the two most recent edits to this page. They seem awfully POV, although I know nothing about this. Thanks. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 16:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
:I just checked them since they came from my IP address.
:The most recent one seems to be mere clarification. Putting quotation marks on ''alleged'' doesn't make sense no matter how I look at it.
:The first one seems no more non-neutral than the rest of the paragraph; it may actually be more informative, since not much has been sourced in either case. (PS This is my first edit! Hello!) [[User:Chibithulu|Chibithulu]] 17:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
::I'll agree with the fake/alleged clarification, on second look that doesn't seem to be a problem. But the takedown request edit is still too POV, but you are right in saying that the paragraph (indeed, it seems, the whole article) is POV and needs sourcing. Given how a lot of these sites operate, I get the feeling that they aren't generally receptive to takedown requests, especially if they think the art in question might provide them with some amusement or drama for a while.
::Anyone have thoughts on slapping an NPOV template or sourcing-request template (don't know that one yet) on this article? [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 18:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
:::''The board re-appeared on August 25, 2006 as "Lulz.net," having lost its prior name due to legal proceedings with furry artist Jeremy Bernal. An European server was also chosen due to more lax copyright rules overseas, which meant that what little of a DNP copyright protection "WTFur" had could now be completely disregarded.'' This blows past POV and right into full on editorializing. Simply noting the server moved to Europe (since "overseas" is subjective; America is "overseas" if you're in Japan) and leaving it at that would be most fair. [[User:733|733]]

== Settled like Internet Men ==
Lulz.net is currently, likely permanently, offline. cho0b and the other admins got in one little fight and Arcturus got scared, etc. Expect the situation to be settled by early next week, as cho0b is firing WTFur back up and the rest of the gang are building something called Sidechan. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 07:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Lulz.net

2006-12-01T07:48:52Z

Downspin: doodz be starting internet war

{{Unreferenced}}
{{NPOV}}

[[Image:Wtfur2.png|right]]
'''Lulz.net''' (formerly known as '''WTFur''') was a [[2ch]] style art community for the posting of [[erotic]] [[furry art]], and populated with former members from the /furi/ board on [[WTFux]].

{{rating-ma-button}}
*'''Addressess''':
**'''Main imageboard''' http://lulz.net/
**'''Discussion forum''': http://lulz.net/dis/
*'''Founders''': [[cho0b]]
*'''Administrators''': cho0b, [[Arcturus]], [[Mellis]], [[Kiba]]
*'''Ran from/to''':
** Early summer 2006 - July 24, 2006 (as WTFur)
** August 25, 2006 - November 30, 2006 (as Lulz.net)
*'''Logo''': ''"Furry art discussion and critique"''

==Policies and content==

This board does not feature a list of people that draw furries that don't want them posted. Although polite takedown requests from said people are usually heeded, impolite or impatient takedown requests from artists are often disregarded, and sometimes even mocked<ref>[http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/ WTFur's message board at pleasedontsue.com]</ref>.

As it was with [[WTFux]], its main [[furry]] directory image is a singular topical board called '''/furi/'''. This allows all manner of media topics to be displayed, ranging from clean art to adult material, to straight to gay sexual content, to vore, scat and cub art, all posted side-by-side.

Because of this, there have been several requests by users to subdivide this master board into smaller categories, using a model similar to other imageboards such as [[Fchan]]. The official stance of the moderation team is that requests of this nature will be ignored, and when questioned about this decision, moderator Mellis responded thus why the reason of a single unified board:

:"''People are going to bitch [about images] with or without separated boards, because there are a lot of people who are thin-skinned or just like to argue or be 'category zealots'. Personally, I would rather deal with ONE board where people are complaining about what should and should not be posted, than seven or eight or however fine you want to subdivide categories.''"

==2006 server move==
[[image:GovWTFur.png|250px|right]]
On July 25, 2006, in preparation to moving the site to a new server, WTFur's splash page was replaced by cho0b with a fake notice from the US [[wikipedia:fbi|Federal Bureau of Investigation]], [[Wikipedia:NSA|National Security Agency]], [[Wikipedia:MPAA|MPAA]], and the [[wikipedia:RIAA|RIAA]].

The "message" informs the viewer that "''This website has been closed by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation, in association with the United States National Security Agency, the Motion Picture Association of America, and the Recording Industry Association of America; pending a federal investigation''," that their [[wikipedia:IP|IP]] has been logged, and to "''Please stay where you are. You will be contacted for questioning regarding the investigations related to this website.''"

Clicking on "''Piracy Doesn't Pay''" lead to a placeholder image board on the server (/temp/,) with the title '''/pedofur/'''. Finally, until the move was completed, all hosted images were archived in a single [[wikipedia:rar|RAR]] image, and uploaded to the [http://thepiratebay.org/ The Pirate Bay], a [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|BitTorrent]] tracker.

The original "takedown" image can be found at [http://vxbinaca.beevomit.org/ Vxbinaca.beevomit.org], under the section "''7/24/06 FBI Takedown joke page.''"

==Relocation changes==

The board re-appeared on August 25, 2006 as "Lulz.net," having lost its prior name due to legal proceedings with [[furry artist]] [[Jeremy Bernal]]. An European server was also chosen due to more lax copyright rules overseas, which meant that what little of a DNP copyright protection "WTFur" had could now be completely disregarded.

==Controversy==

=====Single board approach=====
Many visitors to Lulz take issue with the board's "''hands-off''" approach to posting and moderation, allowing all manner of media content ([[PG]] to [[X]], straight, gay, vore, scat, cub art, etc...) to be posted mixed, side-by-side on the site's single board.

Though controversial, the moderators defend this choice by reasoning that it will expose users to art or [[Artist|artists]] they would not have seen otherwise, and that because users are prone to complain about posts in categories no matter how finely they are divided, dealing with those complaints in a single board only saves the moderation team a great deal of time. And so, any future requests by users to subdivide the content of the board into smaller categories, will, as stated before (see "Policies and content",) be ignored.

=====Moderators' actions/inactions=====
Furthermore, there have been accusations of the moderating staff standing ''idly by'' in the past as a direct result of these policies, when threads have been posted that users object to, but do not necessarily break any of the site's rules, or the moderation team is slow to remove spam or invasion posts from the page. Though there have been requests by a small group of users to take down threads featuring [[Cub|cub]] or commercial work, such as work by [[Palcomix]], the moderation team does not appear to remove such material.

=====Cub art=====
When questioned in particular about 'cub porn' and the policy on the site of such material after one of many such threads caught the eye of [[CrushYiffDestroy]], the moderators of the site responded with the following:

*"''Enforcing rules based on morals is not the job of the moderators and/or administrators of an imageboard site''"
*"''If users think that a thread contains morally offensive images or text, they can sage the thread until it is permasaged into nothing"''
*''"While I whole heartedly agree that child pornography is not something that should be smiled upon, I feel that I must reinstate the fact that 'cub porn' is not child pornography"''<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2478&highlight=lulz&sid=4f2e452174093b8a828829e76302d5fb cho0b and "cub porn" art on Lulz.net]</ref>.

These policies have been in place since Lulz's inception, and, for better or worse, remain unchanged to this day.

=====Admin split=====
On November 30, 2006, cho0b redirected the Lulz.net domain name. All other admins from the former Lulz began work on [[Sidechan]] that night, while cho0b set to find new hosting for WTFux.org and a new WTFur.org.

==References==
<references/>

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2006 births]]

Downspin

2006-12-01T07:41:35Z

Downspin: under new pwnership

'''Downspin''' is a forum moderator at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. He officially joined CYD on 22 Jul 2006, though he has left small touches of his work in the site design nearly since the day CYD was formed. He became forum moderator through [[Wikipedia:Nepotism|nepotism]], when he agreed to assist [[Mitch]] on the day a slight legal emergency had previous moderator [[Railfoxen]] banished from the forums. As no moderator has yet been found to replace Downspin, he remains, and slowly grows more accustomed to the job. It has not yet been decided if he will stay on permanently.

==My vacuum cleaner broke again and also I might be gay==
His job in industrial design keeps him too occupied to work on his magnum opus. He enjoys house, trance, imported beer, imported cars, and [[Wikipedia:Hormone replacement therapy|hormone replacement therapy]]. He posts sporadically on both CYD and [[COTI]] under the name Downspin. At this time he has no furry [[LiveJournal]]; his [[fursona|murrsona]] is a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]].

He has forgotten what his previous goal was re: picking fights with [[Sidechan]] administrators, and has resigned to posting pictures of himself on the /furi/ board.

==External links==
{{Contributor}}
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Downspin]'s member profile page at [[CYD]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Artists]]

Talk:Nexxus

2006-11-29T21:47:03Z

Downspin:

Regarding the blurb about Nexxus "being asked not to attend Anthrocon", that is simply untrue. Looking through [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_frm/thread/cb12a7e521eff288/33ec261aec0150d0?tvc=1&hl=en#33ec261aec0150d0 the entire thread], it was about Christopher Bair, who runs Planet Furry and a few other websites. [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/msg/e4c5974f36316540?hl=en& The Chairman's comments on the thread] further indicate this. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the following sentence from the article:
:''In the early days of FurNation, he scooped functionality innovations from other peoples' furry websites to control it all at one central location-- his.''
...since there was no reference cited for that and the sentence seemed rather inflamatory. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

::The first accusation of theft is actually is actually just that, an accusation,... Nexxus replies later on on it that he is behind the deliveries. The phrasing on the entry sounds more like insinuation than a fact, and 2003?, is there anything else more recent to corroborate this?. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I have no clue. [[User:67.176.94.60]] would be the one to ask, really. I just performed article cleanup. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

== Including Nexxus's rebuttals? ==

Looking at [http://groups.google.com/group/fur.artwork.erotica/browse_frm/thread/d2b02e092dc30c3f/b0a03a13d186b976?&hl=en#b0a03a13d186b976 this thread], there are a couple of rebuttals from Nexxus, which seem perfectly reasonable to me. Any suggestions from more experienced editors on how we can include them in the references without the list of references getting unweildly? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

:In my opinion, the whole "controversy" section should just be removed. If you look at the 4 things being cited.

:1. 1 disgruntled cusstomer on Second Life. Are there any Second Life communities that have not had complaints made about them or the people running them? Is Second Life drama enough of a reason to discredit someone's reputation like this? I don't think so. {{unsigned|FuzzWolf}}

:: Just because other communities may have complaints about them, does that make any of the complaints less valid? If Nexxus cares to respond to the allegation in a blog, UseNet, website, etc., I would have no problem with referencing/citing said reply in the article as it would be the fair thing to do. Speaking of which, I have noticed one additional complaint which lends support to Triggur's claim: [http://triggur.livejournal.com/171104.html?thread=2132832#t2132832]. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:2. Reference 2 is a newsgroup post from nearly 3 years ago. Its also pretty clear in the post that the person writing it is advocating Sibe's illegal download. This information is neither recent nor from a reliable source of information. They're using Nexxus as an excuse to support their furry bittorrent. {{unsigned|FuzzWolf}}

:: Looking over that post again, the poster does not seem to have any specific complaint about having lost money, so I think it doesn't belong on this article. I've removed it. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:3. An uphappy customer. As has been stated here, Nexxus replies to these issues farther down in the thread. It would be really one-sided to only cite the views of one person whose order didn't come out quite right. I don't see any slandering on the entries for Rabbit Valley or Shanda so why is the founder of FurNation targeted like this? I don't believe for a second that there's a single company out there, furry or otherwise, that has not had a customer that they couldn't make happy no matter what they did. Some people just like to keep complaining long after the fact. If Wikifur is going to include negative information from one customer of one furry provider, it should do the same for everyone. Can you imagine what a can of worms that would open up? {{unsigned|FuzzWolf}}

:: I'm all for citing Nexxus's reply, too. Is there one that someone can link me to?
:: I don't know of any issues regarding Rabbit Valley or Shanda (or any other vendor offhand), but if there were public complaints made from people who had business with them, I would have no problem with a similar "controversy" section being added to their articles, too.
:: Also, I'm going to have to disagree with with characterizing the section as "slander". First, slander is spoken (oral) defamation. I believe what you're referring to is libel, which is written defamation. That being said, I'm not sure how having a controversy section would be considered libellous on our part. The section is cited and, AFAIK, there has been no "actual malice" on the part of WikiFur. I'll concede that it's possible that [http://www.eff.org/legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.039 trade libel] may have been committed by any of the parties that have had complaints about Nexxus, but that would be an issue between Nexxus and those parties. In the event that he would prevail against any of those people in court, we could certainly cite the judgements here. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:4. So Nexxus has people who help him out from time to time. I'm not seeing the problem here. Also the post that is referenced shows Dragoneer offering to get the comics to the person complaining, not to pay any money. It doesn't show he's helping Nexxus financially so the reference is incorrect.--[[User:FuzzWolf|FuzzWolf]] 17:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

:: That's a good point, I've removed that reference. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

==This has to be a joke.==
::Am I seriously to understand--this can't be intentional, but are people accusing Nexxus of trying to--of trying to run a Rackett? [[User:24.69.167.145|24.69.167.145]] 21:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::: If by "racket", you mean "illegal enterprise", I don't think so. It looks to me like some people are merely complaining that they haven't received what they paid for, nor have received refunds. There can be plenty of explanations (both legal and extra-legal) for that. I think it would be a stretch at this point to call it a racket. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:40, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

== Why I reverted Selkit's edits ==

I fail to see how anything in the article is considered defamation. Furthermore, I find it questionable that Selkit is trying to remove a reference to a comment that he posted himself in Triggur's LJ, specifically that he stepped in financially to help Nexxus out. I think that, as a money issue, it is relavent to some of the issues in the article.

That being said, the text of the article does look a little POVish, so I'll try to make it less so.

Going forward, if you have an issue with the article, I think it would be best for all concerned to leave comments on this talk page instead of arbitrarily removing a link to something you wrote. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

: Selkit got [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Butthurt] and is still playing lapdog to Nexxus. There exist financial motives to keep the article POV. I do believe the article as of [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Nexxus&oldid=102783 Dmuth's latest] is fair. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Downspin

2006-11-29T09:57:21Z

Downspin:

'''Downspin''' is a forum moderator at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. He officially joined CYD on 22 Jul 2006, though he has left small touches of his work in the site design nearly since the day CYD was formed. He became forum moderator through [[Wikipedia:Nepotism|nepotism]], when he agreed to assist [[Mitch]] on the day a slight legal emergency had previous moderator [[Railfoxen]] banished from the forums. As no moderator has yet been found to replace Downspin, he remains, and slowly grows more accustomed to the job. It has not yet been decided if he will stay on permanently.

==My vacuum cleaner broke again and also I might be gay==
His job in industrial design keeps him too occupied to work on his magnum opus. He enjoys house, trance, imported beer, imported cars, and [[Wikipedia:Hormone replacement therapy|hormone replacement therapy]]. He posts sporadically on both CYD and [[COTI]] under the name Downspin. At this time he has no furry [[LiveJournal]]; his [[fursona|murrsona]] is a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]].

He has forgotten what his previous goal was re: picking fights with [[Lulz.net]] administrators, and has resigned to posting pictures of himself on the /furi/ board.

==External links==
{{Contributor}}
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Downspin]'s member profile page at [[CYD]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Artists]]

Talk:Species

2006-11-25T10:16:49Z

Downspin:

I think we should merge [[Phenotype]] into this article. --[[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 06:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

: Agreed. Further, the term 'species' should be defined as applies to the skunkvixentigerchakatwolfdragonkitsune-happy fandom. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 10:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Downspin

2006-11-23T00:50:23Z

Downspin:

Hi there, Downspin, and welcome to WikiFur. Thank you for your recent contributions - [[User talk:GreenReaper|let me know]] if you need any [[help]] not already provided. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 22:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

hello?

I was 18 in 2004 and joined the fandom of '04, which led me to take that pohoto of myself, in October. My b-day is in July so I was obviously of legal age when the supposed photo was taken. If you're gonna have a wiki on me at least be politically correct :P [[jakerzinc]]

== Please don't editwar ==

Reverting supported statements to erase them is against the spirit of wiki. Please do not editwar. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 23:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:These statements were not supported, or were very poorly supported with quotes out of context. Please record these statements in the article's talk page so they may be discussed before they are added to article proper. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 23:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
::If someone is, indeed, imping you then I apologize and hope you understand I still remain confused and uncertain. The organization you represent, CYD, is committing rampant libel and harrassment of me, and I am just a private fur. I would certainly appreciate it if you might attempt to amend the situation and enforce the supposed ban CYD claims to have on RailFoxen. I again re-iterate the sincere suggestion that you take efforts to ensure a miscreant parading around as you does not color your reputation with their behaviors. Greenreaper and his fellow wikifur administrators are generally competent and mindful of integrity when it comes to such abuses as one user masquerading as another.
::Again, if it truly is an imposter, I apologize for the identity confusion. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I'd request you detail the libel and harrassment claims, and place them in a talk page. You ''seem'' to be the only person CYD has ever stalked, harassed, and written libel about, so you have the burden of proving you aren't paranoid or malicious.

::::No, I'm just the first person that's cared to speak up about it.

:::The recent article looks well documented, and all sources can be checked (though I haven't looked at Google Groups).

::::Not one of them has been.

:::You've complained CYD has labeled you a 'dog rapist', and by legal definition you are a ''''sexual predator'''',

::::Libel.

:::'''rescuing strays and training them'''

::::Libel.

:::, thus the vernacular''' 'rapist' may be a valid description of your character'''

::::Libel unless you have a criminal record stating such.

:::. ''You'd have to convince the civilized world that what you do is not rape

::::False; you must prove I have been lawfully convicted of rape or sexual predation crime, which I never have been; thus, all of your statements remain false and libellous. And you can no longer disassociate them from yourself by claiming someone else wrote them. CYD has made these claims for many years and they are no more true now than they were then. CYD has followed me around from my livejournal to wikifur to FurryMUCK making numerous statements that are categorically false. I have never violated the sexual consent of any being; CYD, however, continues to violate my sexual consent by making false sexual allegations against me numerous times in public.

:::; until you do, you'll be labeled.

::::Only by those who believe a group of individuals that have proven themselves to be liars already.

::: Also, I'd like you to confirm any part of the mob following you on the MUCKs is from CYD, '''name''' them all, provide '''logs''', and show us where CYD encourages FurryMUCK players to track you down.

::::CYD has already established this by posting logs, unauthorized, of some of its spying on me on FurryMUCK. Notably you've left out the numerous times the past year or two that your authorized and condoned agents have stalked and harrassed me for the purposes of committing libel to afflict my character and reputation. I did not log those attacks your organization has willfully committed.

::: A forum member simply mentioning your name will '''not''' be enough.

::::Not be enough for what?

:::As everything written so far about you is '''undeniably true''',

::::False.

:::''' nothing CYD has done constitues libel'''

::::False.

:::. We've also deleted your personal information wherever it's appeared, and gone out of our way to protect your real identity. '''I'm sorry'''

::::I do not believe you are sorry.

::: FurryMUCK players '''know about what you do with animals'''

::::You've just admitted your organization makes the libellous claims against my consent. They know what you claim, but they do not know that you are committing libel in doing so because I have never committed any act of rape nor violation of consent, and you have failed to produce any lawful conviction from any court showing your statements to be true. To re-iterate, you have no evidence and are committing libel by publishing information you know is false.

:::, and I'm disappointed the furry fandom is so offensive,

::::You are offensive.

::: but they have the same right to deride and mock you as you have to spread your rhetoric of hatred against the 'ewmahns'.

::::I've never attempted to enforce my views on others with your means of stalking, harrassment, hatemongering and libel.

:::''Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft...''

::::I don't speak German or whatever language that is. My apologies.

:::This ban is Mitch's deal, not mine, but I'm told Rail generates too many legal complaints, and what he does on the MUCKs is just close enough to be trolling to be against the rules. He's banished from the forums to keep him from talking about MUCK drama,

::::But posting a more permanent page on your site is okay, even when its filled with libel, and your admitting to his committing harrassment and attacks against me on FurryMUCK, contradicting your earlier claim to the contrary, grants that the CYD site is entirely responsible for his conduct and actions and accepts full legal responsibility for criminal acts he engages in.

::: and to keep him from posting things the other admins need to remove.

::::I haven't seen any removal of harrassing, libellous and attacking material. In fact, there's quite a heap of it on the forums -- in excess of 900 articles, as well as a more public and permanent article CYD is liable for.

::: Now, if you don't know, all front page articles need to be approved by Mitch. He'll accept articles from anyone - furries, anti-furries, members, non-members, and ex-members.

::::I somehow doubt they'd accept an article from me, considering the wanton disrespect for basic facts, professionalism in research or verifiability in claims.

::: Rail being on CYD or not doesn't matter.

::::It does when he commits criminal acts as an authorized agent of CYD.

::: If we like the article -- and I did -- it goes on the front page. If you're trying to catch us in a lie,

:::: I've caught you on several already, and you've even proven more in this diatribe.

:::you'll need to try harder, and remember you'll prove nothing in the process.

::::I've already proven plenty from your own claims that contradict your actions.

::: We make mistakes, and we change our minds.

::::The only thing you seem to change your minds about are what image to present. Your anti-furry, anti-gay, anti-spirituality, pro-mob, pro-attack, pro-stalk, pro-harrass and sexual-attribution-on-everything sentiments remain pretty solid so far as I have seen.

:::I can tell you're intelligent and bright with a lot of experience to your name.

::::Funny, your article stated something remarkably different.

::: I know you'll understand that you're doing nothing to help your cause by fighting this way.

::::Well, that I'll grant you. I've not won many friends, and I can't say I don't care -- I do. It hurts. But I'd rather be lonely with a clean conscience than popular with a guilty one.

::: The harder you push, the farther back you'll slide. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 06:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Probably true, but if you knew the truth about me, you'd know the effort means more to me than the effect. I know I'm not going about this the right way. I know there's a better way I have yet to find. I am not a noble being, I simply don't value my life anymore to worry too much about whether someone in your group, or another of my stalkers who have already found their way to doorsteps I formerly inhabited, manage to find their mark and accomplish their goal of ridding the world of me. I'm still hoping Sibe does. Better me than others he's harmed. Its not because of some noble self-sacrifice ... its just that martyrdom is easier than suicide. Am I mentally healthy? No. Do I have emotional problems? Yes. Have I been professionally diagnosed with depression and anxiety? Yes. And yes, I know CYD's wonderful article on me tells me that, like the rest of society, you enjoy poking fun at people with problems because it makes you feel more powerful and problem-less.

::::Well, let me give you my little rant here then ... suppose some communist liberal type manages to slime his way into control and institutes programs to de-demonize mental health issues and offer universal social support and services for those who are troubled. And just suppose with all those kajillions of dollars that would be better spent on a bigger nuke or shinier tank to wage mass slaughter on some distant third-world kingdom, one person who would otherwise be driven by their problems -- and avoiding getting treatment for them on their own thanks to mobbish societal pressures from the likes of you into denying them as well as the prohibitive cost -- and that person doesn't go shoot up a school, turn to booze and cause a DUI "incident," or rape a child. Maybe, just maybe, NOT adding another stick to the fire to mob against people who are different than you might help as well. Unless, of course, you truly enjoy the results of what happens when people could not and did not get the help they needed when it would have done some good. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 07:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Then I will simply state that you are a liar, a fraud, a con artist, a self-servile cheat. Distorted prose - you follow Railfoxen's mold, indeed. I wish you the best of luck on your journey, as you have made an impression upon me. I am not a writer, so I shall quote: You are one of God's own prototypes. Some kind of operation on a wholly unique level, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 08:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

== Source for furry tutorial ==

Regarding [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Fursona&diff=101345&oldid=100974 this] edit, did that tutorial originate at CYD or is the copy there a mirror? I think we should link to the original source and since I see you are associated with CYD I wanted to be sure you weren't just trying to direct traffic there. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 00:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

: [http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Furry#How_to_be_a_Furry_-_Anti-furry_site_in_disguise.3F LURK MOAR]
: The original hosted on Deviant Art is highly inconvenient to browse, thus I suggest linking the CYD mirror. In the event we create an article about the ''How to Be a Furry'' guide, the original should be linked. The previous mirror on ihaveaplan.be should no longer be used. Thank you for letting me clarify. =^.^= --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 00:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Fursona

2006-11-23T00:04:49Z

Downspin: use the right url plz

A '''fursona''' (and the degenerate '''furson''') is a [[Wikipedia:portmanteau|portmanteau]] of [[furry]] and [[Wikipedia:persona|persona]] or [[Wikipedia:person|person]]. The term ''fursona'' is also considered to be [[Furspeech]]. The correct plural of fursona is fursona''s''. The term fursona is used to denote a description of a character or identity assumed by a person or [[player]]. The usage of the term fursona is identical to that of persona except that a fursona denotes a [[furry]]-type character/identity. The term also commonly appears on [[Furcadia]], a popular [[furry art]] website.

==Levels of personal identification==
An individual may identify with a particular character in a variety of ways and with varying degrees of closeness. These levels are typified in ascending order of closeness:
===Avatar===
An [[Avatar (virtual reality)|avatar]] is typically a character created by a [[player]] as an [[Wikipedia:alias|alias]]. Typically this alias is used by the [[player]] as a trademark or symbol of their [[role playing]] identity. Hence, [[player]]s typically do not associate themselves with their avatar outside of that specific realm of experience. A single player typically has many avatars however some [[player]]s may prefer one character over others.

===Personal furry===
A personal furry is a fursona that a person or [[player]] identifies with on a deeper more personal level.
====The description of a personal furry====
The description of a personal furry typically possesses all the hallmarks of a complete fictional character. This may include the physical description of a furry, the character's beliefs, moods, and temperaments, and all stories that support and expand the understanding of the furry character. Drawings of the character are very common, and personal furries are often used online to role-play with other characters, sometimes with the aid of an avatar.
====Plurality of personal furries====
While a person may play several characters and have several fursonas, the personal furry often has greater significance - it will often be a better representation of the person's "real" personality, if only because they tend to use it more often. Many individuals with a personal furry will primarily use that character to represent themselves online and within the fandom, and may actually go by that character's name as their primary nickname or handle, both on and even offline.
====Similarity to player====
A personal furry often reflects elements of their player's real-life appearance or dress, or what they would like to wear. It is generally considered to be bad taste for others to depict a personal furry (and to a lesser extent, any character) participating in activities that they or their player would not normally be involved in.
====Relationship to other furry concepts/practices====
While a personal furry is often seen as a natural fit for lifestylers, it's important to note that ideas such as [[furry lifestyle]] and [[animal totemism]] are not intrinsically linked to the concept.

==The typical fursona==
[[Image:TypicalFursonaPortrait_Canine.jpg|thumb|right|300px|A typical fursona portrait.]]
Depending on the level of personal identification the discription of a fursona typically consists of the following elements:
===An illustration of appearance===
A visual, kinesthetic, or textual realization of the player's mental impression of their fursona. The most common form of realization being an illustration or textual description which may be described by the term [[furry art]].
===A definition of behavior===
Depending on personal preference the behavior of a fursona can range from that of a typical human being zoomorphic only in appearance to behavior which is identical to that of the animal represented by the fursona. These general behaviors usually form a framework inside of which a player may mold their character's behavior to their liking. As fursonas are typically a [[furry]] representation of the player the fursona often inherits many of the player's character traits.

==External links==

* [http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/furryTut/index.php?page=2 How to be a furry: Fursona] - a parodying look at fursonas, by [[Jonathan Wood]]

[[Category: Terms]]

Talk:Fursona

2006-11-22T23:54:47Z

Downspin:

I believe Personal Furry should be a separate article. This one tries to cram everything together, and fails at that. -- Wesha 14:56, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:So what is the ''difference'' between a personal furry and a fursona? As far as I can tell - and I'm welcome to suggestions otherwise - they're two words for the same concept, and so should be under one article (although of course the representation could do with improvement :-). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:25, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::I would say that the article, as it stands, is only appropriate for "personal furry". I would say that a "Fursona" is simply the on-line alias of the person playing it. The general character and mood of a person's fursona may be very different in from them RL, of course, but this is true of any sort of on-line personality; there's no "crossover" or "interference" or however you want to put it between a fursona ''simpliciter'' and RL, unlike the case with "personal furry", where the elements described in the article - "reflects elements of their player's real-life appearance or dress", for example - come into play. [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] 18:06, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::To simplify the above a little. A "Fursona" is an on-line alias, nothing more. If there _is_ something more to the player's interaction with their character, it becomes a "personal furry". [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]]

:::The problem I have with this is that a glance at the [http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Fursona google results for fursona] suggest that many people do in fact use the term ''fursona'' with the meaning you have as ''personal furry'' - "my persona, my personal self", or "This is my fursona (which means that it's me)". And, of course, some others do not (although those who start sentances like "my new fursona . . ." might just be deciding that a different characterization better represents them).

::::Yes, I see what you mean. A personal furry will always be a fursona, but someone (in which category I include myself) may have a fursona without considering it to be a "personal furry". My suggestion would be to rename the current article to "Personal furry", perhaps expand it a little in a "lifestyler" direction, and have for "Fursona" a simple definition, something like "An on-line alias, usually the primary one used by the player. People with an established [[personal furry]] generally take this as their fursona." [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] 19:33, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::Of course, this may not have an ideal answer - Wikipedia dodges the issue and just redirects to "furry fandom", but we don't really have that option. ;-p --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 18:59, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::Note that most furries do ''not'' have [[alt]]s, and so their only fursona is usually their personal furry by default. Having lots of different characters for different purposes is something that I believe is mostly restricted to [[MUCK]]s and other roleplaying scenarios. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 19:06, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Purrsonally, I always used the word "fursona" as a synonym for "character"; while my definition of "Personal Furry" is "projection of my individual 'self' onto the [virtual] world in question". From that standpoint, "player" and "character" are not separate entities; they're simply projections of a single and indivisible entity, "me", onto different worlds, be it real or virtual. Wesha 23:37, 19 Sep 2005 (EDT)

I've split the two terms back up - I think it's obvious that they _do_ have different meanings. Of course, if others disagree, feel free to revert. I've not added any content to either article. [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] 10:34, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)

=Restructuring/Consolidation=
I am currently restructuring the page to put quite a bit of additional information in and consolidate scattered information from throughout the wiki. If you have any suggestions please leave them here -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 06:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

=Pluralization=
The standard rule for english portmanteau is that the last word be pluralized as normal resulting in the plural fursonas. Reference [[Wikipedia:English plural]] -- [[User:DeVandalizer|DeVandalizer]] 06:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

== How to be a furry...again ==

This isn't a good external link. This article has been discussed elsewhere and IMHO it's too bitter and acidic for a good external link for this article. Anyone have better ideas? Else we should just remove it. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 21:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::What's wrong with bitter and acidic? I read the link and he (or she) hits a lot of issues square on. While the article may make you feel uncomfortable, it's no less valid than more positive commentary. [[User:733|733]] 21:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Then let's balance it out with something else a little less nasty. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 21:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

::::I agree, there should be a counter-point to this. Also, any chance of finding a less creepy fursona picture? [[User:733|733]] 22:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

:::::'''WAUGH'''. Holy fuck, that picture does more damage to this article than the external link could ever aspire to. If I didn't know one of the locals drew that I'd assume '''that picture''' was vandalism. Replace that before complaining about external links plz! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 23:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Furry

2006-11-20T23:10:24Z

Downspin:

I have seen non-furries at AnthroCon asking what a furry is, and at least once had asked me as well. Trying to answer the question is a very tricky subject without some line of reference that most people can relate to commonly. For me when describing what furries are, I ask them in return "Have you ever watched Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny?" And wait for their answers on that. I go on to tell tham that some furries are like those characters, or think of similar characters of their own devising as their alter egos. Everyone at Anthrocon basically has their own answers for the question, and some do not use anthromporhic animals as their fursonas. It may also fall into the catagory of "furry fandom", but I find that answering the question of "What is a furry" using Bugs Bunny as a reference point so people can make the link themselves with less confusion. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 10:18, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:I'm not sure, either. Wikipedia links mostly to the [[Wikipedia:Furry fandom|furry fandom]] and [[Wikipedia:Furry lifestyle|furry lifestyle]] pages, but we might not want to follow them, although we can always use information from those pages to construct stuff here (with proper attribution - see the bottom of [[Tapestries MUCK]]). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 14:07, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC)

==Protected Status==
I'm wondering why the entry for "furry" was closed for editing? After all, what better way to attempt to define the meaning of furry than to allow the multitudes to come to some sort of collaborative definition?

:A short line: Trolls attacking it multiple times and vandalizing or defacing it. Same difference. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 22:54, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::I think it's overkill to keep it protected. I'd unprotect it and watch it for vandalism; there are enough eyes on the article to revert anything bad in a short time. [[User:Kelly Martin|Kelly Martin]] 22:59, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::Is there a way for it to be protected to only be edited by logged-in members or something more secure?--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 23:13, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::Semiprotection (editing restricted to logged in users) has been proposed for MediaWiki but as far as I know it has not been implemented. [[User:Kelly Martin|Kelly Martin]] 23:15, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::In fact, yes. However, it is usually better to list the information you want to add in this page and if it is workable, it'll go up. In this case, I will bring it to another admin's view for a second opinion. --[[User:Markus|Markus]]
::::After a short exchange, it has been decided to unlock it for a short time to see what happens. If it proves unworkable, it will again be locked and it would then be best to propose your edits here on the talk page. --[[User:Markus|Markus]]
:::::I just tried editing it and it says it's still locked. The edit button shows up now, though.

::::::It shows as unprotected on my end. --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 18:42, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:In fact, this page <s>''is''</s> was protected, but <s>can</s> could still be edited by normal users by editing the template contained upon it. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 04:27, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::It has not needed to be be protected recently. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:33, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Draft text ==

Within the [[furry fandom]], the word "furry" has several of specialized meanings. The following definitions are relatively uncontentious.
* A '''furry character''' is any [[:Category:Characters|character]] combining human and animal characteristics, commonly abbreviated as a "furry". This is the core meaning from which others derive.
* A '''furry fan''' is a [[:Category:People|person]] who is a member of the [[furry fandom]], a specific [[Wikipedia:subculture|subculture]] dating from the 1980s and focused around furry characters. Both "furry fan" and "furry fandom" are each commonly abbreviated to "furry".
As an adjective, "furry" can also indicate a relationship to furry characters or furry fans, as in "[[furry art]]" or "[[Conventions|furry convention]]".

It may seem reasonable to define "furry fan" to include any person with an interest in furry characters. However, this can be hugely contentious for individuals who are interested in furry characters but are unwilling to be identified with the specific [[furry fandom]]. Approaches to defuse this conflict include variant definitions:
* A '''furry fan''' is anyone who identifies as a member of the specific [[furry fandom]]. In other words, a furry is anyone who chooses the label, and only those who do.
* A '''furry character''' is more narrowly defined to only encompass characters created by people within the fandom, or in artistic styles popular within the fandom. Terms such as "[[funny animal]]" or "[[Anthropomorphic|anthro]]" are then used to indicate animal characters, avoiding the term "furry".

::I would agree with the above, but I think we should mention the fan/[[lifestyler]] distinction - perhaps another paragraph in the "variant" definitions section:
*A '''furry lifestyler''' or merely a '''furry''' (person) is someone whose interest in animals (not necessarily anthropomorphic) goes beyond mere enjoyment of artwork and stories about them, but which has a spiritual or emotional aspect to it. [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] 10:25, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== FAH ==

http://www.foxes.de/FAH/ Furries against hunting -- maybe it should have an article. I don't feel like writing it, but if someone wants to, here it is. [[User:SleepAtWork|SleepAtWork]] 16:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to be a Furry - Anti-furry site in disguise? ==

[http://ihaveaplan.be/furryTut/furryTut/whyBeFurry.html How to be a Furry] is a website someone linked on a Facebook Furry group thread in reference to their apprehension about "asking" to be let into the furry fandom because they didn't quite fit what rules the website had set out for them, particularly in regards to his [http://ihaveaplan.be/furryTut/furryTut/fursona.html fursona] and what it meant in regards to his sexuality. I think some attention should be brought to this website somehow, as it was apparently briefly listed on Wikipedia's Furry page as a legitimate tutorial. Input from others? [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 16:35, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
:I'm going to call nonsense on it. Looks like someone's snarky idea of a joke. Not particularly funny (or original. how ironic.).
:Do you have a link to this person's question on Facebook? Sounds like a naieve soul needs set straight. :-/ [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 17:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
:Wikipedia's furry article? Oh that article has always been a mess. Oh yeah that how to be a furry is a joke and I thought I saw it featured from a crush yiff destroy article. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 01:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

: I would classify the "How to be a Furry" article as satire. It should not be treated as actual reference material. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
:: Awfully acidic satire. The unwarranted overly cynical tone destroys any satirical humor that may have been there. If people aren't getting the (ahem) "joke" then perhaps we should do something (don't really know what, though) but it'd probably be best to leave that guy in his little corner fuming about...[[Xydexx#Quotations|cartoon characters]]. *shakes head* [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 01:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

::The person clarified that it wasn't Wikipedia, but /WikiFur/, where he found the link to the website. I checked, and it's still listed as a "humorous" link on [[Fursona]]. I changed the wording to "parodying" to make it more clear that this isn't meant to be taken seriously. But in my opinion, it needs to be removed as a reference link to the article entirely, to prevent further misinterpretations. [[User:24.241.49.173|24.241.49.173]] 00:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC) (SpazKitty not logged in)

: This was the work of a DeviantArt user, u63r - the original is located [http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/31135582/ here]. [[CYD]] administration approached u63r and offered to host the document. Please use the URL http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/furryTut/ to save poor Dos' bandwidth. For those of you who don't clock on every cycle, this is indeed a work of satire. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 23:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Astolpho

2006-11-20T22:57:39Z

Downspin:

Hi there, Rootdown - welcome to WikiFur! Let me know on my [[User talk:GreenReaper|user talk]] page if you need any [[help]] not already provided. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 06:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

----
<nowiki>:o</nowiki> --[[User:Verix|Verix]] 07:46, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:<nowiki>D:</nowiki> --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:02, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::<nowiki>:3</nowiki> --[[User:Verix|Verix]] 21:53, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Hay its rootdown :) --{{UT|ToyDragon}}

Yo hey there man --[[Image:xaxtiny.png]][[User:Xax|?]] 02:47, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

----

Also, just FYI, guys, I'm new to the wiki editing thing and I'm still picking up the style conventions and tags and so on. If I make any flubs in my formatting please do correct them.--[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 22:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Hey and welcome. :) Don't worry about mistakes, tis why we are a wiki. You'll pick the tags up quickly. ^^ --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 02:50, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Some chatter going on about you at [[babyfur]] and was wondering if you're still a babyfur artist. Skippy removed you stating you are no longer, but that conflicts with [[Astolpho]]. I know you still draw for a lot of babyfurs.. just .. your friends ;) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:06, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Yeah, Skippy has some kind of nonsensical personal beef with me and we can in all likelihood expect to see more of this kind of behavior from him in the future. I still draw that stuff, still post the comics publicly to the Astolpho livejournal, and most recently uploaded a few of the babyfur-themed drawings to my VCL account, so there you have it. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 17:10, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::Good. I was seriously concerned that I was losing my mind in seeing those things. They're cute, and you make a wonderful lion cub. Don't change ;) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:12, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== About recent edits ==

Please keep your "revisions" neutral and without any personal point of view on the subject matter. Also note that most edits that remove a great deal of information will usually be reverted. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 14:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

::I wrote the bulk of the original information in both articles you reverted (they're both about me). My understanding was that editing your own articles is generally kosher, and I've seen plenty of articles about individuals that are brief. Is there some sort of rule that wikifur editors have to follow that when changes to articles are made they have to undo them to discourage people from participating, or do you guys just really really the sensation of exercising authority? Seems like the last time I got involved in wikifur that was the score. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 21:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Welcome to WikiFur! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 22:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Dragon's Eye Productions

2006-11-17T21:25:52Z

Downspin: OK SO?

Coincidentally, my yearly revenue was ''also'' under $1 million. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Downspin

2006-10-31T07:01:02Z

Downspin: I've got the genitals I've always wanted now.

'''Downspin''' is a forum moderator at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. He officially joined CYD on 22 Jul 2006, though he has left small touches of his work in the site design nearly since the day CYD was formed. He became forum moderator through [[Wikipedia:Nepotism|nepotism]], when he agreed to assist [[Mitch]] on the day a slight legal emergency had previous moderator [[Railfoxen]] banished from the forums. As no moderator has yet been found to replace Downspin, he remains, and slowly grows more accustomed to the job. It has not yet been decided if he will stay on permanently.

==They're exactly like the genitals he used to have. Only with a MiniDisc player.==
His job in industrial design keeps him too occupied to work on his magnum opus. He enjoys house, trance, imported beer, imported cars, and [[Wikipedia:Hormone replacement therapy|hormone replacement therapy]]. He posts sporadically on both CYD and [[COTI]] under the name Downspin. At this time he has no furry [[LiveJournal]]; his [[fursona|murrsona]] is a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]].

He currently picking fights with [[Lulz.net]] administrators, but often finds himself overcome with sloth, apathy, and alcohol.

==External links==
{{Contributor}}
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Downspin]'s member profile page at [[CYD]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Artists]]

Talk:Hagane Requiem

2006-10-11T07:13:22Z

Downspin:

After looking at the LiveJournal user page for this, as well as the Wikipedia entry for [[Wikipedia:Full Metal Alchemist|Full Metal Alchemist]] (I haven't seen the anime myself, admittedly), there doesn't appear to be anything furry about this, outside of the fact that [[Jessica Schock|Ms. Schock]] is the GM of the game.

I didn't +SpD this, since I'm not familiar with the anime. Anyone else have more insight on this? [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 06:48, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

:I don't really see how this is furry either. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

: Oh, I love this anime. =^.^= But no, nothing remotely furry about it or the group - other than one of the GMs. Sorry! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 07:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Elementseven

2006-10-10T16:14:19Z

Downspin:

this is the gayest entry on earth --[[User:E7|E7]] 23:47, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Speedy Deletion ==
Uh?. Why SpD?. This article is base on a real person, who is involved in furry (on his own way, as it were,) and it's linked to several articles in Wikifur. Yes, we have our share of people that have made their entries a little... quirky, but nothing that we haven't cleaned up, or ask them to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:I suggested speedy deletion under the following criteria, which I believe apply to such an article as this:
# You create something that is patent nonsense. Either garbled text, nonsensical phrases and so forth. ("T HUAGUALGUAG DICKS PANTS: ERROR AT POINTER $B6D01A")
# Pure Vandalism. Writing '''obscene''' articles with '''no merit''' or content. ("...who loves to indulge in both his undying love of dicks and his fiery passion of being pissed upon by the homeless. Also, he loves having rotten chum poured into his gaping asscrack while being slapped in the face with disembodied horsecocks.")
# Very short articles providing little or no context (e.g., "He is a funny man that has created Factory and the Hacienda. And, by the way, his wife is great."). Limited content is not in itself a reason to delete if there is enough context to allow expansion. (see above example - this article either needs to be stripped down to the bare basics or the slate needs to be wiped clean.)
:[[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::I concur unless the article receives a significant cleanup to fix [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]'s points. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 21:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I vote '''delete'''. This article is just unpleasant. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::::No kidding. I've seen vandalism tamer than this. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::The "T HUAGUALGUAG DICKS PANTS: ERROR AT POINTER $B6D01A" is a reference to Jerk City. I don't see how this entry harms anyone, and it's actually pretty funny. Think of it as an antidote or counterpoint to the standard masturbatory self entries. [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

Well, for the content, that's why I added "Clean-up" and "Wikifi" tags to,... it's indeed short, so we added the "Person Stub" tag,... as per language, it's a "living" article on a open source historic data site, which means it can be changed in future variations, and, yes, we had vandalism tamer than this, but then, we had vandalism much worse than it,...

...And finally, this personal entry is linked to several entries within Wikifur for several reasons, another reason why I vote '''No''' on delete. Compared to other incidents regarding entries we had to deal with, this particular one doesn't even rate a raised eyebrow, but then I'm just one of the many opinions that make Wikifur [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 22:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:Several" entries link here? I count two actual articles. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 22:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::Sorry about that. reworded: "...And finally, this personal entry is linked to two entries within Wikifur..."

:Obscenity? On ''my'' wiki? Vote '''No Delete'''. It's more descriptive than you think! Also, cleanup on Element 7! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 07:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:WikiFur is for informative articles, not in-jokes or obscene language. The appropriate page for such things is [[User:Elementseven]]. I also have severe doubts about the truth of several of the assertions made in the article. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:57, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:: I agree with GreenReaper, let's just move the text in question over to E7's user page. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:19, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

::: Fair enough. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 16:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
== Spaz Kitty, personal request for article second chance ==

Would it be too much to ask you for a SpD delay on the article?, give a second chance?. Just askinh, thanks =) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
:I'm not planning on taking any action until a few more days have passed and more people have provided their input. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 15:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Elementseven

2006-10-10T07:43:58Z

Downspin: No (Blame Hofmann)

this is the gayest entry on earth --[[User:E7|E7]] 23:47, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Speedy Deletion ==
Uh?. Why SpD?. This article is base on a real person, who is involved in furry (on his own way, as it were,) and it's linked to several articles in Wikifur. Yes, we have our share of people that have made their entries a little... quirky, but nothing that we haven't cleaned up, or ask them to. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 20:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:I suggested speedy deletion under the following criteria, which I believe apply to such an article as this:
# You create something that is patent nonsense. Either garbled text, nonsensical phrases and so forth. ("T HUAGUALGUAG DICKS PANTS: ERROR AT POINTER $B6D01A")
# Pure Vandalism. Writing '''obscene''' articles with '''no merit''' or content. ("...who loves to indulge in both his undying love of dicks and his fiery passion of being pissed upon by the homeless. Also, he loves having rotten chum poured into his gaping asscrack while being slapped in the face with disembodied horsecocks.")
# Very short articles providing little or no context (e.g., "He is a funny man that has created Factory and the Hacienda. And, by the way, his wife is great."). Limited content is not in itself a reason to delete if there is enough context to allow expansion. (see above example - this article either needs to be stripped down to the bare basics or the slate needs to be wiped clean.)
:[[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::I concur unless the article receives a significant cleanup to fix [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]]'s points. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 21:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I vote '''delete'''. This article is just unpleasant. --[[User:Robomilk|Tori]] 21:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::::No kidding. I've seen vandalism tamer than this. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 21:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::The "T HUAGUALGUAG DICKS PANTS: ERROR AT POINTER $B6D01A" is a reference to Jerk City. I don't see how this entry harms anyone, and it's actually pretty funny. Think of it as an antidote or counterpoint to the standard masturbatory self entries. [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

Well, for the content, that's why I added "Clean-up" and "Wikifi" tags to,... it's indeed short, so we added the "Person Stub" tag,... as per language, it's a "living" article on a open source historic data site, which means it can be changed in future variations, and, yes, we had vandalism tamer than this, but then, we had vandalism much worse than it,...

...And finally, this personal entry is linked to several entries within Wikifur for several reasons, another reason why I vote '''No''' on delete. Compared to other incidents regarding entries we had to deal with, this particular one doesn't even rate a raised eyebrow, but then I'm just one of the many opinions that make Wikifur [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 22:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:Several" entries link here? I count two actual articles. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 22:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::Sorry about that. reworded: "...And finally, this personal entry is linked to two entries within Wikifur..."

Obscenity? On ''my'' wiki? Vote '''No Delete'''. It's more descriptive than you think! Also, cleanup on Element 7! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 07:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Downspin

2006-10-10T07:36:10Z

Downspin:

'''Downspin''' is a forum moderator at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. He officially joined CYD on 22 Jul 2006, though he has left small touches of his work in the site design nearly since the day CYD was formed. He became forum moderator through [[Wikipedia:Nepotism|nepotism]], when he agreed to assist [[Mitch]] on the day a slight legal emergency had previous moderator [[Railfoxen]] banished from the forums. As no moderator has yet been found to replace Downspin, he remains, and slowly grows more accustomed to the job. It has not yet been decided if he will stay on permanently.

==Queer until 2041==
His job in industrial design keeps him too occupied to work on his magnum opus. He enjoys house, trance, imported beer, imported cars, and [[Wikipedia:Hormone replacement therapy|hormone replacement therapy]]. He posts sporadically on both CYD and [[COTI]] under the name Downspin. At this time he has no furry [[LiveJournal]]; his [[fursona|murrsona]] is a [[Skunktaur (Chakat-kin)|chakat-kin skunktaur]].

He is currently picking fights with [[Lulz.net]] administrators, but often finds himself overcome with sloth, apathy, and alcohol.

==External links==
{{Contributor}}
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Downspin]'s member profile page at [[CYD]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Artists]]

Downspin

2006-10-09T07:54:12Z

Downspin:

'''Downspin''' is a forum moderator at [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]. He officially joined CYD on 22 Jul 2006, though he has left small touches of his work in the site design nearly since the day CYD was formed. He became forum moderator through [[Wikipedia:Nepotism|nepotism]], agreeing to assist [[Mitch]] on the day a slight legal emergency had previous moderator [[Railfoxen]] banished from the forums. As no moderator has yet been found to replace Downspin, he remains, and slowly grows more accustomed to the job. It has not yet been decided if he will stay on permanently.

His job in industrial design keeps him too occupied to work on his magnum opus. He enjoys house, trance, imported beer, imported cars, and [[Wikipedia:Hormone replacement therapy|hormone replacement therapy]]. He posts sporadically on both CYD and [[COTI]] under the name Downspin. At this time he has no furry [[LiveJournal]].

He is currently picking fights with [[Lulz.net]] administrators, but is too damn lazy to do a good job at it.

==External links==
{{Contributor}}
* [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=794 Downspin]'s member profile page at [[CYD]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Artists]]

Talk:Mix (person)

2006-10-06T00:05:33Z

Downspin:

This article's tone needs to be improved. It's fine for a user page, but not a main article. I know what you're trying to say, Mix, but that's best put on your user page, not the article page. I'll leave it as is, but please, work on the tone a bit.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 20:11, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)
:I've marked for SpD as there is little to extract from this article if it was cleaned up. And since the writer is not registered, it can't be moved to a user page. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 20:14, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::Well, I figured we could have at least given him the oppurtunity to create and transfer this to a user page.. that's what I was suggesting. But yeah, SpD is just as safe a bet as this is likely a drive by.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 20:16, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::I gave it a once-over and snipped out the worst of it, and my edit is as follows. I placed it here because I am not quite sure what you're supposed to do when editing pages with delete templates on them. --[[Image:xaxtiny.png]][[User:Xax|?]]

== 'NPOV' revision, first draft ==
Mix is a retired furry and SA good, friends with [[Verix]] and [[Fredryk Fox]]. He still loves to hang out with the group in Chicago, meet new friends in the furry fandom, but he is a [[were]] not a [[furry]]. A [[werehyenataur]], to be exact. Part [[Wikipedia:Thylacine|thylacine]] as well.

Mix has stated that he has issues with organized religion, most importantly Christianity. His hatred towards all religion has had him to believe in a philosophy of spirits and polar energy, though still open-minded towards all other philosophical debates. He then relates his own philosophy to transformations and physical shifting, though he has his doubts.

Mix has a knack for his sketchbook, stating that no one may draw in it if they intend to 'sign' their work. He says, "Artwork is supposed to capture a person's soul, '''not''' their signature," claiming that signatures make the work totally abstract.

Mix claims to be more of a Communist/Fascist sort of mind-set. Though he is more of a white-supremacist, he gives every person he meets a chance to prove themselves to him as being a well established, mannered, or cool character. His opposing views quote Mix in saying, "If they act like one, I'll call them one..." He blames racial-stupidity-creating-stereotypes on genetics and improper parenting and surroundings.

Mix is a very generous person. He's been a [[super-sponsor]] for the past years that he attended [[Anthrocon]], volunteering as well.

:Good rewrite, I'll move this on to the main article. For future reference, if you can 'save' an article by doing this, feel free to delete the SpD and replace with the tidy version. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 21:35, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Anthrocon 2005 Section ==

This section has been reinserted for editing by [[User talk:67.176.137.5|User 67.176.137.5]] who is the subject of this article. It has been marked dubious until the facts have been established. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 13:17, 20 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:I can tell you that I personally saw him at AC 2005 walking around with an 8mm video camera. He also stopped by by the Operations Office on Monday morning while I was present, asked some question, then yelled "SOMETHING AWFUL DOT COM" and ran out. He is most *definitely* a goon. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 10:07, 20 Sep 2005 (EDT)

::Please see my comment in [[Talk:Something Awful]] about the term "goon". --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 15:06, 20 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Whether he is, is not, or ever was an SA goon, certain facts stand: I saw him at Anthrocon with the camera in question, wearing the shirt in question. These facts should not be deleted. (And gosh, just because he was wearing an SA shirt and shouting about the site, how could anyone have ''possibly'' jumped to the conclusion the he's an SA goon?)--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 08:10, 21 Sep 2005 (EDT)

:Mix stopped by Ops on Monday (at AC2005) and asked us if we wanted "I <3 VCL" buttons. And he gave us some, which I thought was nice of him. I had actually seen him wandering around several times doing his SA routine, and although I don't think it was a particularly smart idea (because wearing a Something Awful shirt carries the same stigma as wearing a [[Burned Furs|Burned Fur]] shirt), I also don't think he was intending to be malicious. I know he was carrying the video camera around, but AFAIK he never posted any video to SA. He's apologized and seems genuinely sorry; I certainly can't fault him for that... everyone makes mistakes. And although I'm not fond of SA, I'm also not fond of setting people up to be scapegoats. Here's hoping everyone comes out of this a little wiser. -:) —[[User:Xydexx|Xydexx]] 01:28, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)

~Trying to crank out digital film from 8mm is the same as turning a steam engine train into an electric. It's 'possible' but costs tons of money to do, and LOTS of time. Besides, I promised everyone that it was for my own personal happyness and use. I don't see furs taken aside and warned to keep their stuff off SA. *shrug* Maybe I was just poking fun at why furried hate them so much and get so overdramatic like it's a big thing that needs to be in furry history as Greenreaper said. Personally, i find that what I did at AC was not malicious in anyways, moreso just plain generous, and that creating a spot on this website is irrelevant data and a waste of space that should be ignored and deleted. Look at it from the veiw as to how others see you. If you go around at an anime convention with a shirt that says 'I like furries', a few people will think that you are repulsive and assume that you are one, some will think you are crazy for admiring them, some will like you, and some will not even know what the hell you are talking about; but I doubt they will talk endlessly about how they saw some kid at the convention wearing a 'I like furries' T-shirt. Same happened to me at AC. Some thought I was a goon, some thought I was idiotic for liking their humour, some thought I was cool (especially for having the guts for wearing the shirt (this included a guy named Tim Albee)), and some/most didn't even know what the website was about. I can't beleive that you guys are making me this rudely 'infamous' character for the fact that I simply wore a T-shirt to a convention, and acted like a nice guy during my stay. I've seen the video for Texas Furcon 2004, and thank god I didn't have my car at AC... o.o... you guys went nuts in that video.

Personal message to Mix. It happened, you did it. "The moving finger writes, and, having writ, moves on. Not all thy piety nor wit shall move it back to cancel one half line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it". If you're genuinely sorry for what you did, I'm sure that anyone reasonable will appreciate your apologies. But _don't_ try and expunge the incident from the record. If you don't want it mentioned here, I would suggest you just ask for exclusion. It _is_ what you're known for in the fandom, after all. [[User:Tevildo|Tevildo]] 12:00, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

For Mix, I have to wonder if you're kind of missing the point here. The encyclopedia entries are meant to be a record of fact. They're not about whether the actions were good or bad, or what effect they have on one's image, or the image of the fandom. Think of it as a collaborative documentation project. If a concensus is reached, well and good, if not, then the site seems scrupulous about reporting all points of view. -Ostrich! <")

:I was under the impression that [[WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_intended_to_hurt_anyone|WikiFur is not imtended to hurt anyone]]. Factuality is not our only criterion. What we write should be factual, but we an not thus obliged to write everything. If Mix states that he feels this is hurtful to him, I'd favor just letting it go. We should be recording the history worth recording; I personally won't shed any tears to see less immortalization of SA here while there's so much fading art history to conserve. -- {{UT|Sebkha}} 13:45, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::Unforchantly, deciding what 'deserves' to go in is not yet a policy I think we have. Nor would I personally want one as any and all facts are worth recording IMHO. Either way, I have clearly stated facts and opinion now so this issue should be considered resolved. Any further blanking of the article will lead to those users getting longer blocks. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 13:48, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::I understand your point, Sebkha, but at the same time I think it's worthy of note that Mix is a known "problem child" for multiple furry conventions. Whether he feels it is hurtful or not, his behavior is a matter of record, and therefore a part of the history of furry fandom, just as interactions with SA are a part of the history of furry fandom. I think including the bad with the good helps to provide context for the fandom overall, and as time goes on will provide as accurate a picture of the fandom as possible.--[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 13:54, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::~I've never done anything 'bad' at furry or anime conventions. What the hell are you talking about Duncan? Can you IM me or something about why you keep saying this? Hell, I support the charities, super-sponsor at times when I have money to spare, and I ALWAYS volunteer. Which conventions do you speak of? (Tell me on messenger though, not on here, I WANT to know 'the rumours')

:::From YOUR Policy & guidelines page:

::::''Excluding people entirely''
::::''Some people do not want information about them to be present in WikiFur. Some have retired from the furry fandom and want nothing to do with it, others feel it is too likely that people who do not like them will post information about them. This should not be abused to censor certain information but not other information: if the information is valid but the person concerned still does not want it posted, then it is probably best to just offer them the option of blanking their page entirely.''

:::( I just don't want to be 'profile'd on this website. I don't want my name on this website. I don't want anything involving me or my actions on this website.)

:::The 'question' I asked on monday to SnowPony and everyone else was if the wanted some free 'I (heart) VCL' buttons that I was passing out to everyone at the con, I think only one person wanted one in the room...

:::I'm really a nice guy, I don't deserve this. You guys say that if I don't want it mentioned, it shouldn't be mentioned. Why are you guys trying so hard to see that it does remain a stain on me? It wasn't intentional.

:::Look: http://www.livejournal.com/users/taren_/122902.html

:::There's about 100 posts about that shit now in other LJs from the LAFF list, and guess what, it's all rumours and assumptions made from this wikifur junk.
:::Thanks to this website, I can be possibly kicked out of my apartment (I'm scared because a fur owns it, and he doesn't like me much because of what he read on here I think), I'm losing old friends and potential friends, because everyone wants to bitch about me doing nothing else but 'wearing a shirt to a convention' Can you smell the drama that just has to be here for some reason?

:::I am trembling/possible suicide feelings. Again: I just don't want to be 'profile'd on this website. I don't want my name on this website. I don't want anything involving me or my actions on this website. Take ANY mention of me and my actions off this website. Please...

:::If you don't, well, I'll just deem the furry culture a bunch of jerks that crave drama for the rest of my life I guess. But I won't stop fighting for information about me to be deleted off this website!

::::Actions carry consequences. Do not even TRY to pretend that you're somehow a "victim" here. Let this be a learning experience and change how you act in the future. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 15:55, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::::It wasn't an action at all. Just because I wore a damn t-shirt means that I have to face this and endless rumours about this? I acted good at your convention, I was a super-sponsor, a volunteer, I don;'t need to be treated like this. No one seriously needs this information!!! Follow your policies of your website! I am not a furry, I am not a goon, I do not want anything posted about me on this website because it is giving others the reason to make up dumb rumours about me that are hurting me and my life. Why is this furry fandom so creul? Leave me alone! No one else talks about me, why do you insist?! TAKE ME OFF THIS DAMN WEBSITE!!!

::::::I believe that particular section also says "If you really have done something particularly bad, or worked up a documented history of misdemeanors, you're going to have to live with that." I fail to see how being a goon at a con is a crime punishable by proverbial tar-and-feathering, but you may also want to keep that in mind while discussing this. I don't know Mix personally, so I'll try and let better discretion kick in here. --[[User:Scani|Scani]] 16:18, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::::::I've looked. I don't see any proof for the assertions in the above two paragraphs following the LJ link. From what I can get that is based on their real interaction and personal knowledge of you - they don't mention WikiFur at all.

:::::::To take a few examples, there's nothing on here about you cuddling other people, and "The SA thing: back in July you posted from AC about how people were giving you shit about your SA shirt." suggests a post on SomethingAwful.com (by yourself). WikiFur wasn't even founded until the end of July.

:::::::There is also a fair amount of stuff on here favourable to you. I would argue that perhaps the section about AC should be at the AC or SA pages rather than here, otherwise this whole page is likely to disappear shortly, which I would like to avoid.

:::::::Note that the fact that you were at a convention and did certain things is not something most would consider "personal information", and so it is unlikely that there is cause to remove that from other articles on those grounds. You can argue that it is not relevant, or that it is not a fair coverage of the facts, but if it ''is'' factually accurage and deemed to be relevant then . . . well, them's the breaks. As Duncan said, if you did something and regret it, that's cool, and we'll say that you do when it's mentioned so that people get the whole story, but it doesn't mean we'll pretend it never happened. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 16:28, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Recommendation ==

I recommend we follow Mix's wishes and blank his pages as desired. To do anything otherwise because of his stature as or not as a member of SA flies in the face of what we've done for other people here who've requested exclusion/personal control, and shows an over arching NPOV nature and bias of the administration. Whether or not it is affecting his life as he says it is, it is clearly hurting someone and is now being done in strictly a vindictive manner.

Blank his pages and lock them. Please. Remove his involvment from this site completely. Wikifur IS hurting someone here. Just because people don't agree with him doesn't mean it's okay.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:20, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:I'm willing to blank this page and lock it after relevant information has been transferred, but I would note that doing so would remove the positive information that shows the other side of the story, such as being a super-sponsor of AC. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 16:28, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
::I would suggest removing all information about Mix, and asking him not to come back. What we're seeing here is an End Run. He does not want information posted about him, and so people are moving the information off his personal page on to other pages. They are End Running around the point of blanking pages. This renders the entire policy irrelevant, as I can create an article that backhandedly references anyone who has a currently blanked page by request, or mention their negative involvement in other articles. It's CLEAR that the resolution to this is that Mix be completely blanked in all areas of Wikifur, asked not to return, and we all pretend like this never happened.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:32, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
:::The problem with your suggestion is that our policy does '''not''' allow for people to be deleted from history like that. If people do something that impacts on something else and we report it as such, we won't remove that just because they don't want a personal article written about them. As it stands I feel my rewrite of the article gives a fair and balanced view and lists both the events that happened and the fact that their was no real malicious intent. As GreenReaper stated, removal and placing facts on other pages will result in the good things about the person being lost here. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 16:39, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::: The the policy can be end run and will need to be addressed down the road since there is now no point to it. I can create a page on the activities of any user who has requested blanking and freely use them without violation of the policies or without it falling under the policies of Wikifur. Regardless, the man has asked for his page to be blanked. He has given ample time for that. Can his page be blanked and protected per the policies and rules of Wikifur? [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:48, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::::Its already addressed in our provisional policy [[WikiFur:Personal_information#Mentions_on_other_pages|here]], mentions on other pages will not be removed if the information is relevant to the article concerned. We are also not quite ready yet to blank the page as we have not reached consensus and the information is not yet ready to be redistributed to other pages. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 16:57, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
:::::: The rules clearly state that the purpose of blanking is to remove the information in question. What is so bad about removing Mix's name from the facts in question and leaving it at "A suspected SA goon?" Why does this man's name have to remain in the game?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:01, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
:::::: And by the way, administration here has blanked every page on request immediately without redistribution and end -running of information out to safe non-blankable pages. Why is there a delay here?[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:03, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::::::: Because we actually '''know''' who it is. We are not censored and do not have to hide facts that can be found out elsewhere quite easily. Likewise in all those cases, there was no contest and no one requested the pages remain. Thus consensus. In this case, there is debate and that must be resolved before we can continue. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:08, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::::::: Actually, I acted more rapidly in those cases than others both because I had more time to deal with them (I'm at work right now and can pay limited attention to this) and because I did not feel they would be contentious. I disagree with your view on "back running" as I think you are misrepresenting our current policy, which only applies to personal information, which is fairly strictly defined. See [[WikiFur:Personal_information#Mentions on other pages]] for the view on this.

:::::::: But the site you point to is a proposal. The site Mix points to which states he should be allowed to blank his page is an actual policy in play. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:22, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::::::::: Right, and I've said this '''will''' happen. I don't see any reason for this to happen ''immediately'', rather than in a few hours when people have had their say, and we've definitely decided what information should and should not be on this page, so that we don't blank text that should rightly be elsewhere and then can't be retrieved by users. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:44, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:::::::::The policy Mix points to doesn't cover the point of total site deletion, that's what the proposed policy will cover. Proposed policies also can still carry their weight unless objection to such points are raised. We have been loosely using the policy in regards to subject-controlled articles in one case as a trial. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:30, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::::::: I simply don't think that the WikiFur community wants people to be able to say nothing happened about them and to have total exclusion on a sitewide basis. Specific personal information is one thing, but public actions that were known to be contentious at the time are quite another. If desired, I will try and create a formal vote on this soon, with various options for future actions. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:18, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Well, hey, its your wiki, not mine. I gave my suggestion, my reasons for it, and my opinion. If people continue, then the recent changes page will be the "All Mix, All The Time" page until someone stops. But, I mean, it's your wiki, not mine, so do what you wish. I'm out of this discussion and on to something else to occupy my time.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:36, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Technically its 'our' wiki as in everyone's. It doesn't belong to GreenReaper, the admins or the users. It belongs to the furry community. ;) Don't worry though, this will be resolved, I think everyone really wants to hear what Mix thinks about all this discussion. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:44, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Until consensus is reached, that's how things will be. I would actually suggest putting the top section of the page onto [[User:Mix]], because it's stuff about the user and (I think) mostly written by them. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 17:54, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

If any of the furry-haters at Something Awful are aware of how much the endless debate over the AC 2005 incident seems to have brought all other activity on WikiFur nearly to a standstill, and is threatening to undermine some participants' faith in the site, they are probably laughing louder than any of us want to know. For all of the attempts by "SA goons" to troll, harass, and deface furry websites, wouldn't they be tickled to learn that one of the most successful results was one that ''we did to ourselves without their help.''

Okay, sorry if I got a little to cynical just then, but I don't like where this is headed, and I wish everyone involved could just chill a bit and try to come to a resolution everyone can live with. --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 19:29, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)
P.S. I will be attending my sister's wedding and probably won't have internet access most of this weekend.

:That's what we're doing, isn't it? :-) Debate is heated, to be sure, but once it's done, it's done. Besides that, it's an important matter that deserves the attention and thoughts of those involved in the project. Making decisions between the various options is a tricky task when there is no established policy, because people naturally have differing opinions. I've already had to make a few private decisions on this sort of topic, and they weren't easy to make either. However, what we decide here may be applicable to future cases - and I'm sure we'll have them, for as long as we include information about people.

:I would note that we are lucky that this is one of the few cases in which we ''don't'' have precedent on what to do from Wikipedia. Most of the time we can just use their rules, but they don't have personal articles on "regular" people, and a lot of the stuff mentioned here (though perhaps not the AC 2005 events) would be removed from Wikipedia on verifiability gtounds. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 00:16, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== A Wiki Newbie's Opinion ==

To the extent that I'm allowed an opinion, I'd like to speak in favour of removing the actual 'Mix' page, which does in fact contain personal information, but leaving intact accounts of his public actions at the con.

My reasoning is that information about his religious leanings, generosity, sketchbook habits, etc., is actually personal information, and forms no real part of the history of the fandom. His actions at AC 2005 are part of the public record, though. They happened. People talked about them afterward, and I'm sure they coloured people's perceptions of the convention and the fandom itself. If you're going to allow removal of stuff like that because a participant has suddenly decided that he doesn't want the things he did to be remembered, then you're essentially giving individuals the power to go back and force changes in how certain aspects of history will be remembered and spoken of.

In the end I think it comes down to a question of what this wiki is supposed to be for. If it's just an entertainment for the participants, then I'd say go ahead and remove all mention of Mix and his actions since that's causing unhappiness. If, on the other hand, it's meant to be a knowledge base or historical resource, then I'd say remove his personal pages only (which state opinions and preferences - actual personal information), but let stand the references in other topics to his actions at AC, which are part of the public record. You can't really decide which to do without first deciding why we're here. I can't see arguments based on the stated policies of the wiki having much weight here, since the policymakers clearly didn't envision this type of situation.

:Actually, I was pretty sure this sort of thing was going to come up when I founded WikiFur - I may be dumb, but I'm not ''that'' dumb. ;-) However, the wiki way is typically to decide what the opinion is through debate, then to codify that as policies when consensus has been reached about how best to go about things. I have therefore tended to defer things until they reach a point at which all options have been presented and a decision can be made. I did copy some of Wikipedia's guidelines that were clearly applicable (or required by our hosting), but not all of them.

:As for purpose - WikiFur has always had a serious side. You can check out what we're about at [[WikiFur:What WikiFur is]]. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 00:09, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC)

(and BTW, how are people getting their UID and timestamp to automatically append to their posts? I'm not smart enough to figure that out). -Ostrich! <")

: A quicky for you - { { UT|username } } for your ID and talk link - without the spaces between brackets of course! - {{UT|ToyDragon}}
::Actually easier than that, if you want that nice format that ToyDragon uses, go to your [[Special:Preferences|Preference page]] and place that code in the Nickname box, set 'Raw Signatures' on and then click Save. If you want just a default signature then leave that be.
::To enter the sig and date automatically, click the signature button on the Editing toolbar or type '''<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>''' which will make the site autoenter your signature and details for you. :) --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 20:12, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Additional info ==

I don't know if this will ever make it into the article, but I just wanted to document it here that yet another person is complaining about Mix's antics: [http://banrai.livejournal.com/796407.html http://banrai.livejournal.com/796407.html]

I can also state that after causing several incidents at [[Anthrocon 2006]], he spent the next few weeks sending me numerous nasty messages in IM, trying to bait me into conversation. I suppose I could post those logs if anyone is interested. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:Sorry I offended you, I was just frustrated that you chose not to answer my questions about your actions against me. You and other staff members treated me with much disrespect, singling me out, and rudely commenting that they didn't care about my mistreatment, my concerns, my requests, and to say that "We know how you are." as their only reason. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:: Gee, what did you expect? You caused us problems two years in a row. This past year James Walton from the DI caught you in the Dealers Room after hours. I personally caught you in the Zoo with a fake axe. What did you think we were going to do, smile and nod? You cause us problems, you face the consequences, it's that simple. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::: You guys never gave me a fair chance to defend myself. A dealer, name kept private until request, asked me to help her to her table to set up at her request. Yes, a 'fake' axe. I bought it from 'your' convention. If you guys have such a problem with them, stop the sales of them. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:::: Yep, James reported that too. He also reported that you were found nowhere near the dealer table in question. I believe his description was along the lines of, "roaming the aisles".
:::: As for the axe, if you bought something like that from a dealer, you should have taken it to your room and packed it away. You were caught with it in the early morning hours in the Zoo, several hours after the Dealers' Room closed. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 22:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::: No one really warned me about it, unless you count that swarm of guards you ordered to demand me, if you would've approached me and just asked yourself, I would've be delighted to apollogize and listen to your request, but how you chose to go about it instead with intimidation wasn't a very polite way of asking. That was what I was trying to ask you on aim as to why didn't you take that approach. You really seemed like a jerk to do that to someone, instead of taking a simple approach. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:As for Banrai, until she can provide proof of her allegations, I am negating all of it. Call it: Innocent until PROVEn guilty.

:She is also accusing me of copyright infringement against her upon gounds of the infamous SA shirt that I made. Need I really prove this here? There is already a picture of me wearing the shirt on the SA wiki. Take it as another "Banrai File" case.

:So if I take a unathorized picture of Kyoht's original art, and make an icon of it, does that make it mine as well?

:Both her and I would be even-stevens and part ways she would've given back the shirt. Instead, in her entry above, she states: "If I still had that godforsaken shirt, I'd gladly give it back. The fact of the matter is that it was so ratty when it was given to me, my dog decided it would make a perfect bed and so it's not survived beyond a few measly shreds."

:But in her counter-notification report to lj-abuse when I filed with the DMCA because of her unathourized use of my "burntfurrygoon" design as her icon: "I am the original creator of this icon, I can provide futher photographs of the object the icon was taken from if need be."

:Rumours of me are getting very VERY over-exaggerated. It's very taxing on my life due to the humungous stress factor I have to face because people would rather beleive rumours about me, than the actual source, myself. Rumours about that I had Gonnerea for 6 months. Rumours about how I drove 10 hours out of my way to try and sabotage everyone's car in a few minutes, just to drive 10 hours back that same night, and I didn't even have a car. Seriously insane rumours... {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:: Wait... you had '''gonorrhea'''? You uh, might want to see a doctor about that. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::: I'm uncut. It happens rarely. But a 6+ month period of having it and purposely 'infecting' people with it... what idiot made that up? And which idiots beleived it? I'd rather circumsize myself with a butcher-knife and soak it in a bottle of Jack. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:::: So how long did you have it for? 3 months? 5 months? Did you infect people accidentally or what? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 22:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::: It lasts about a week. No, but I did warn anyone who came in contact with me. It was clears up within a week with antibiotics. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:I am officially requesting that ALL information about me, including discussions, articles and sub-articles, as well as any mention of be to be removed from this website. I beleive that I am entitled to this by your agreement I agreed to. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:: Well, that's up to the community. Personally, I find it disgusting that you act the way you do, then try to censor what others say about you. It smacks of hypocrisy and makes you look even worse. At least have the guts to accept the consequences of your actions. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 21:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::: Disgusting? Tell me something, Giza. Did you ever chill with me and my friends? Spend some time, like an hour or more, with me first, then discuss my actions. Maybe you'd understand me better if you actually knew me. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

:::: Nope, I haven't. How about we just get straight the point and you tell me what possible justification you have for trying to suppress criticism about you. It's not as if it somehow takes away your ability to still say what you want.

:::: As a general point, it's quite simple, really. All actions have consequences. If you want people to treat you better, you need to treat them better. That means: being considerate of others, stop antagonizing other people online, and stop trying to break rules at conventions. Maybe go do something for the community, too. I ''guarantee' ' that if you start making positive contributions to the community, people will start treating you better. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 22:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::: Giza, I am trying my hardest, and alot of people do say that I have improved greatly over the years. I am NOT trying to break your rules, it would be best if I knew my boundries with at least a warning, but furs don't seem to do that with me. {{unsigned|66.80.234.209}}

It might be noted here that Mix has also [http://community.livejournal.com/fursecution/100208.html recently sexually harassed an individual], purportedly one of this group of 'friends' that he hangs out with. However as it appears Mix is the only one that thinks these people are his friend. As a further annotation, Mix seems to be claiming that I have told people that the ratty shirt he gave me was created by me. This is not true. However, the photographs I took are copyright to me, as the photographer. As well, the usericon that was created, was created by me. Mix never asked permission to re-use my photograh, nor the usericon that I created. This is [http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/54917.html?thread=629637#t629637 not the first time] he has taken another user's icon and tried to claim it for his own. He's also quite well known for [http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/58138.html false generosity] just to attempt to make others look bad, as well. More information on both cases can be found in the comments of each entry. It is very obvious here that, as past evidence shows, Mix simply can't break his habit of trying to make everyone else look bad, while playing the martyr. --[[User:Banrai|Banrai]]