<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="https://en.wikifur.com/w/skins/common/feed.css?303"?>
<feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xml:lang="en">
		<id>https://en.wikifur.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Cesarin</id>
		<title>WikiFur - User contributions [en]</title>
		<link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="https://en.wikifur.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&amp;feedformat=atom&amp;user=Cesarin"/>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cesarin"/>
		<updated>2026-11-06T02:19:25Z</updated>
		<subtitle>User contributions</subtitle>
		<generator>MediaWiki 1.23.16</generator>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2007-08-15T21:25:14Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Mexico|Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing''', As for September 21, His account as been Disabled thanks to the Security breach on [[Wikipedia:Linden Labs|Linden Labs]]. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:center; width:250px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{|border=&amp;quot;1px&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; width: 250px; margin: auto;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Anthrocon}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Second Life}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User deviantART name|tamalero}}&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Talk:Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2007-07-27T08:51:32Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Ortography==&lt;br /&gt;
Requesting some Ortography checks on my Article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks in Advance!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Unsigned|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== About Anthrocon and other Templates ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone can help me fixing the Templates?&lt;br /&gt;
I cant seem to add the correct Anthrocon dates. the anthrocon logo keeps appearing in random spots, destroying the order of my page.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks again!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{unsigned|Cesarin}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2007-07-27T08:44:33Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Mexico|Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing''', As for September 21, His account as been Disabled thanks to the Security breach on [[Wikipedia:Linden Labs|Linden Labs]]. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2007-07-27T08:35:07Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Mexico|Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing''', As for September 21, His account as been Disabled thanks to the Security breach on [[Wikipedia:Linden Labs|Linden Labs]]. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{User Anthrocon}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-09-27T20:55:55Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Mexico|,Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing''', As for September 21, His account as been Disabled thanks to the Security breach on [[Wikipedia:Linden Labs|Linden Labs]]. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-09-22T04:32:58Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerto Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing''', As for September 21, His account as been Disabled thanks to the Security breach on [[Wikipedia:Linden Labs|Linden Labs]]. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Talk:Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-09-22T04:32:55Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Ortography==&lt;br /&gt;
Requesting some Ortography checks on my Article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks in Advance!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-09-22T04:29:13Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* Games */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerto Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing''', As for September 21, His account as been Disabled thanks to the Security breach on [[Wikipedia:Linden Labs|Linden Labs]]. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's page] at [[y!Gallery]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-09-22T04:27:44Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* Character details */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerto Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar length in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing'''. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's page] at [[y!Gallery]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-09-22T04:27:11Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg|right|thumb| Cesarin as a Firebender, Inspired in the Cartoon Series from Nickelodeon &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot;, Drawn by the artist FatDrake]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry art]]work. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerto Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry fandom|furry community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999 (one of his first drawings was of [[Ozone_Griffox]]). He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar lngth in [[Wing]]-span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|right|thumb|Prismacolored image by Cesarin The White DraGoN: &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin's style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and toony. His favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[rabbit|bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are inked using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is on [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing'''. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as -=SaRuMaN=-.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org/ Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's page] at [[y!Gallery]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Dragon characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Second Life characters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/File:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg</id>
		<title>File:1148397039.fatdrake cesarinfb smaller.jpg</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/File:1148397039.fatdrake_cesarinfb_smaller.jpg"/>
				<updated>2006-09-22T04:24:53Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: Cesarin as a Firebender inspired by &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot; and drawn by Artist FatDrake&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Summary ==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin as a Firebender inspired by &amp;quot;Avatar - The Last Airbender&amp;quot; and drawn by Artist FatDrake&lt;br /&gt;
== Licensing ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{fursona}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Evil_Sibe</id>
		<title>Talk:Evil Sibe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Evil_Sibe"/>
				<updated>2006-09-13T16:40:24Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{featured}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;'''Discussion Pages'''&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]] (7 Sep 2005 - 26 Jan 2006)&lt;br /&gt;
*[[/Archive2|Archive 2]] (11 Feb 2006 - 22 Jul 2006)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Request for removal ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:&lt;br /&gt;
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.&lt;br /&gt;
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years.  Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate.  I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.&lt;br /&gt;
::There's zero indication of change for the better.  His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion.  I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.&lt;br /&gt;
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions.  Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison.  He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known.  If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''.  Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with.  Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out.  Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time).  Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret.  I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last.  I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Just for clarification, did you mean &amp;quot;as is&amp;quot; with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included?  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name.  Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue.  First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence.  He is still on what's called &amp;quot;Post Supervision Release&amp;quot;, which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years.  This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant.  Sibe has posted as &amp;quot;Ross Reddick&amp;quot; in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name.   Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article.  Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason.  His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault.  His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault.  He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case.  Just check the archives.  --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bad faith request? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&amp;amp;diff=85624&amp;amp;oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::We thought that it was &amp;quot;Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}&amp;quot; (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying &amp;quot;Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}&amp;quot;. It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:Siege|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little &amp;quot;tantrum&amp;quot; (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The request was made in bad faith.  I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== why not? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name. &lt;br /&gt;
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up. &lt;br /&gt;
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - &amp;quot;outing&amp;quot; their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If Sibe truly is trying to &amp;quot;go straight&amp;quot; - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply &amp;quot;wipe away&amp;quot; the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I too agree.  I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''.  --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aye, Nay, Abstain:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the &amp;quot;spite&amp;quot; incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Abstain, with a twist'''.  There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain.  However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article.  --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer.  Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in.  He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period.  We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''.  His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit.  I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him.  This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name.  If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday.   [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''. Through his actions to damage both furry fandom and those within it, he has forfeited any right to anonymity. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 03:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''. The actions of this user do not demonstrate good faith. The request was refused ealier for reasons noted. This information is publically avaialble from other sources (Fredryk Phox, etc) and, not to be insensitive, would alienate many people if it were to be removed. The magnitude of the acts committed should also be taken into account, this person has a history of dangerous and destructive activity that members of the fandom should be able to easily find out about even if this person is using another alias/identity. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 04:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''.  Of the reasons cited for, I feel that it's far less likely that a HR department will deny employment to him for a page in a wiki than, say, a criminal background check. I know it'll be possible for people to grab the information in the history either way, but given the nature of his history... I can only think that starting anew within the fandom would result in the further victimization of our fellows. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''. Considering how many oportunities people (and the law) has given him, and he still keeps doing his particular stuff. Id say his name should stay, at least until he proves himself he's not the same. --[[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] 11:39, 13 September 2006 (GMT-6)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Note regarding wikifur personal information policy change discussion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is already an established talk page for this:  [[WikiFur_talk:Personal_information]]  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Evil_Sibe</id>
		<title>Talk:Evil Sibe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Evil_Sibe"/>
				<updated>2006-09-13T16:39:56Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{featured}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;'''Discussion Pages'''&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]] (7 Sep 2005 - 26 Jan 2006)&lt;br /&gt;
*[[/Archive2|Archive 2]] (11 Feb 2006 - 22 Jul 2006)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Request for removal ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:&lt;br /&gt;
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.&lt;br /&gt;
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years.  Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate.  I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.&lt;br /&gt;
::There's zero indication of change for the better.  His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion.  I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.&lt;br /&gt;
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions.  Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison.  He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known.  If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''.  Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with.  Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out.  Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time).  Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret.  I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last.  I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Just for clarification, did you mean &amp;quot;as is&amp;quot; with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included?  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name.  Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue.  First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence.  He is still on what's called &amp;quot;Post Supervision Release&amp;quot;, which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years.  This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant.  Sibe has posted as &amp;quot;Ross Reddick&amp;quot; in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name.   Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article.  Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason.  His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault.  His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault.  He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case.  Just check the archives.  --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Bad faith request? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&amp;amp;diff=85624&amp;amp;oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::We thought that it was &amp;quot;Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}&amp;quot; (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying &amp;quot;Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}&amp;quot;. It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:Siege|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little &amp;quot;tantrum&amp;quot; (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The request was made in bad faith.  I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== why not? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name. &lt;br /&gt;
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up. &lt;br /&gt;
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - &amp;quot;outing&amp;quot; their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If Sibe truly is trying to &amp;quot;go straight&amp;quot; - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply &amp;quot;wipe away&amp;quot; the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: I too agree.  I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''.  --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aye, Nay, Abstain:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the &amp;quot;spite&amp;quot; incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Abstain, with a twist'''.  There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain.  However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article.  --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer.  Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in.  He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period.  We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''.  His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit.  I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him.  This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name.  If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday.   [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''. Through his actions to damage both furry fandom and those within it, he has forfeited any right to anonymity. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 03:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''. The actions of this user do not demonstrate good faith. The request was refused ealier for reasons noted. This information is publically avaialble from other sources (Fredryk Phox, etc) and, not to be insensitive, would alienate many people if it were to be removed. The magnitude of the acts committed should also be taken into account, this person has a history of dangerous and destructive activity that members of the fandom should be able to easily find out about even if this person is using another alias/identity. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 04:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Nay'''.  Of the reasons cited for, I feel that it's far less likely that a HR department will deny employment to him for a page in a wiki than, say, a criminal background check. I know it'll be possible for people to grab the information in the history either way, but given the nature of his history... I can only think that starting anew within the fandom would result in the further victimization of our fellows. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Nay''. Considering how many oportunities people (and the law) has given him, and he still keeps doing his particular stuff. Id say his name should stay, at least until he proves himself he's not the same. --[[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] 11:39, 13 September 2006 (GMT-6)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Note regarding wikifur personal information policy change discussion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is already an established talk page for this:  [[WikiFur_talk:Personal_information]]  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Stylograph</id>
		<title>Talk:Stylograph</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Stylograph"/>
				<updated>2006-03-30T02:43:48Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Is this of particular furry note in some way? Popular for drawing in sketchbooks at cons or some such thing? -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 07:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Not really, the one page which linked here ([[:Image:WD bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|an image's description]]) I've changed to a Wikipedia link but it turns out that page doesn't exist on Wikipedia. I suggest someone moving this article over to WP as a stub. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
stylographs or fountain pens are the tools I use for inking my drawings, in wiki, there is only a not so direct explanation of what a stylograph is, thus I added a small image to show people with WHAT I INK MY PICTURES.&lt;br /&gt;
and no its not furry. -- [[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] [[User talk:Cesarin|talk]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I appreciate that you wanted to show this off, but I agree that the article more rightly belongs on Wikipedia. We don't disallow any relevant Wikipedia links you ever want to include, and I'm sure Wikipedians would love to natter over a new article. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 18:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: well I dont mind if you delete it then. [[user talk:Cesarin|Talk]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Stylograph</id>
		<title>Talk:Stylograph</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Stylograph"/>
				<updated>2006-03-28T17:10:43Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Is this of particular furry note in some way? Popular for drawing in sketchbooks at cons or some such thing? -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 07:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Not really, the one page which linked here ([[:Image:WD bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|an image's description]]) I've changed to a Wikipedia link but it turns out that page doesn't exist on Wikipedia. I suggest someone moving this article over to WP as a stub. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
stylographs or fountain pens are the tools I use for inking my drawings, in wiki, there is only a not so direct explanation of what a stylograph is, thus I added a small image to show people with WHAT I INK MY PICTURES.&lt;br /&gt;
and no its not furry. -- [[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] [[User talk:Cesarin|talk]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Stylograph</id>
		<title>Talk:Stylograph</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Stylograph"/>
				<updated>2006-03-28T17:08:41Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Is this of particular furry note in some way? Popular for drawing in sketchbooks at cons or some such thing? -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 07:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Not really, the one page which linked here ([[Image:WD bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|an image's description]]) I've changed to a Wikipedia link but it turns out that page doesn't exist on Wikipedia. I suggest someone moving this article over to WP as a stub. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
stylographs or fountain pens are the tools I use for inking my drawings, in wiki, there is only a not so direct explanation of what a stylograph is, thus I added a small image to show people with WHAT I INK MY PICTURES.&lt;br /&gt;
and no its not furry.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-27T19:34:16Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* Games */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerto Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of what he considers to be its [[Wikipedia:Golden Age|Golden Age]], around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received [[commission]] requests. He currently offers his artwork on several diferent websites and in the [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; width:250px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{|border=&amp;quot;1px&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; width: 250px; margin: auto;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Anthrocon}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Second Life Name|Cesarin Chickenwing}}&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a '[[Non-anthro]]' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg|center|frame| B&amp;amp;W, Image by '''Sunny Colaneri''', &amp;quot;Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin&amp;quot;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork of Cesarin==&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin''' style is mostly &amp;quot;cutesy&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;toony@, his favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[bunnies]] and whatever [[hug]]gable creature he may find cute. Most of his pictures are [[inked]], in his personal [[style]], using a [[Wikipedia:Stylograph|stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|center|frame|Prismacolored image by '''Cesarin The White DraGoN''', &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
You can find '''Cesarin''' in [[Second Life]] as '''Cesarin Chickenwing'''. He can also be found on  [[Wikipedia:Counter Strike|Counter Strike]] servers as the annoying -=SaRuMaN=- (note from the artist: &amp;quot;hey!!, I do play my role!!&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's page] at [[Fur Affinity]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's page] at [[y!Gallery]]&lt;br /&gt;
*''[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?]'' - Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's Store] at Rabbit Valley&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/User_talk:GreenReaper</id>
		<title>User talk:GreenReaper</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/User_talk:GreenReaper"/>
				<updated>2006-03-27T19:32:03Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* Replies to GreenReaper */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;!-- You probably want to add stuff at the bottom of this page --&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{User talk:GreenReaper/Header}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hello! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yea, I noticed. I had to go to the sand box to make a new red link. I did however just finish a new article. [[Chainroaker]]. Thanks for the greeting! I've lurked this wiki for quite some time and thought I might just as well get myself an account. :)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
/Spocha&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, if you change the link at the top of the page to &amp;quot;&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;http://furry.wikicities.com/wiki/&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;'''Your_desired_term'''&amp;quot;, you're presented a blank page, and can click the appropriate links from there to create the new article. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 21:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Upcoming hiatus ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just letting you know, I'm moving to another city on or around the 24th of this month, most likely New Orleans. Because of this, I won't be available regularly for a while after this week. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 22:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Don't worry about it - people come and go (and ''usually'' come back again :-) all the time. Good luck with the move - I hope you have great fortune in the Big Easy, or wherever you end up. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 00:01, 20 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Replies to GreenReaper ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, I don't know if the &amp;quot;feep&amp;quot; images can be used here (from the Fuzzball TinyMUCK pages).  The only permission I got from Revar was to put all fuzzball documentation on any wiki I felt was useful.  The Feeps aren't part of the documentation (they're more the &amp;quot;mascot&amp;quot; of Belfry Software) so I can't give any permission one way or the other.  The best way to contact Revar is Revar@FurryMUCK.  --{{UT|Aerowolf}} 02:05, 21 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for the advice! I'll see about asking Revar about it when I'm not falling over from sleep-deprivation. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-= By Cesarin =-&lt;br /&gt;
Hey there GreenReaper, not sure where I can post or ask this, wondering if you can review my own wiki at [[Cesarin]], since I'm from Mexico and I'm still not 100% sure about some grammar values &amp;amp; writting rules.&lt;br /&gt;
so I ask for your help to see if you can review and fix my errors :&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Remaking history ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have a real issue, with people being able to edit history, his wishes aside, no one, should be able to hide their past, espcially when it is such a well known name, I think wiping his userpage is fine, if he wish it to be that, then so be it, however, he should not be able to remove links from within the wiki.. im on IRC and AIM Right now, IRC as AlohaWolf, and AIM as AlohaWulf, please shoot me a message&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''I did this and we had a chat about it. It's still not an entirely resolved question, and people have differeing opinions about it.'' --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 06:07, 23 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Entry deletion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would appreciate it if you would please delete any mention of myself from your wiki site.  I've hoped that non-involvement with that particular fandom would perhaps allow my mention of involvement with it, to evaporate over time. Yet I checked this morning and there is a detailed bio of said interaction, covering me from 1993 to the present. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-Tom Narey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm sorry that you feel that way. Part of furry fandom's history is the fact that people have decided to leave it, after all, and we like to record that so that people know the full story and don't wonder what happened to people. However, I can understand your view, and I shall exclude your entry in accordance with our [[WikiFur:Personal information|relevant policy]]. Unless there are any objections from other contributors (which are unlikely given your current non-involvement), this should be all that is required. Should you change your mind at any point (or if you would prefer that the entry be there, but with details of your choosing), let me know. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 22:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Furnation Worlds vandalism ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ahoy there, just wanted to let you know that [[FurNation Worlds]] was vandalized a few minutes ago by an IP-only troll. I reverted the page to an earlier edit, I just wanted you to know so you'll hopefully ban that IP from editing. Thanks. [[User:Kitsune Sniper|Kitsune Sniper]] 22:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for taking the time to spot and revert it! :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 23:09, 27 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Entry deletion/edit ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please remove references to Silent Red's real name from the wiki. If this requires the entry to be removed entirely that is fine. This person has not been involved in the fandom for several years and will not return.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I have moved the entry to [[Silent Red]], where it should probably have been anyway (we have a policy of preferring to listing under nicknames) and removed the redirect from the person's real name. I have added a note to the page specifying that it should not be re-added. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The [real name] Entry ==&lt;br /&gt;
:''The section was edited by me to remove the real name of the person concerned.'' --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 23:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am deeply ambarrassed to have to ask you to remove the [real name] entry from WikiFur. Though personally honored to have an entry and grateful to [[Ken Pick]] for originally placing it, certain individuals who sign my paycheck have taken great umbrage over my presence on the Internet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Please contact me as to what steps I need to take in order to verify who I am and that I have the authority to make this request.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the time you read this, I will have verified my Hotmail address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for you patience and understanding about this situation I reluctantly find myself in.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sincerely,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[real name]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi there! I'm sorry to hear that, but I can understand the situation given your class of your work. As you have previously made contributions to WikiFur I feel reasonably assured of your identity - no further verification will be reqired unless someone claims otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If you wish we can probably exclude your entry completely. It would be a shame to remove the details of your work in the community, though. Would it be acceptable to preserve the entry if all mentions of your name and current occupation were removed?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I have set this up at [[Heavy Horse]] so you can see how it would look, and changed all links mentioning your real name to your fan name. The only pages on which your real name currently appears are these talk pages, which can be edited out if desired. The page about you could also be put under your control if you wish, so that only you or an administrator could edit it directly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If this will not suffice, let me know at my talk page, and I will exclude the entry completely. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 21:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That is an excellent suggestion! Please remove the [real name] section totally and keep Heavy Horse exaclty as you have written it. I will keep a watch over it to make sure it remains unconnected with my real name.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks again for a very creative solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::[real name]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::No worries - I'm glad it solves the problem for you! We've actually had this situation come about a few times before, and this sort of solution usually solves it. I have removed your real name from this conversation - hopefully that should be sufficient to prevent it coming up in searches. If you wish to sign future chat, just type &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; and it will give your username with a link to your user page. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 23:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've added a note to the article's [[Talk:Heavy Horse|talk page]] so that the details are not accidentally added again. :) Just to clarify and link back to this discussion easily. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 01:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Welcome ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi there, Aaaamory, and welcome to WikiFur! Thanks for your contribution to the article about your comic. [[User talk:GreenReaper|Let me know]] if you need any [[help]] not already provided. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:03, 3 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi GreenReaper.  Thanks for the welcome.  I'm still new.  Whee this is fun!  [[User:Aaaamory|Aaaamory]] 22:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can you contact me via AIM?  My id is mwalimu59&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== とらんすふあ ==&lt;br /&gt;
Shouldn't that be トランスフア?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''Result of IRC discussion: Apparently not, as it is a Japanese word and not a foreign one (so is in [[Wikipedia:hiragana|hiragana]] and not [[Wikipedia:katakana|katakana]]).'' --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:39, 5 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hey Green ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I noticed your note to me. I am still really green to this so to speak (heheh) can you let me know how to move it to person; people category?&lt;br /&gt;
thanks, anjel&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To put your page in the People category, you put &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[Category:People]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; at the bottom of it - have a look at other people's pages to see how it works. Also, to sign your name easily at the end of talk page edits, just put &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; which will turn into your name and the date. Make sure you're logged in first! :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Heya ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, thanks for commenting on my entry.&lt;br /&gt;
I really have no idea what I'm doing... I thought I was making a general pedia entry, but guess not. How do I make an entry?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You're welcome! And don't worry, you're doing the right thing by trying things out. *grins*&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You were editing on your user page - the bit where by convention you &amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; to people on a personal basis. This is usually used to talk about your wiki work and plans for the future, or whatever - but either way, it's ''from'' you (in the first person), not ''about'' you (in the third person). It's pretty much exactly the same in terms of editing, but the content is different by convention - compare [[User:GreenReaper]] and [[GreenReaper]] to see what I mean. It means that people can edit the pages about other people without feeling that they are editing personal words - because that is what the User: page is for.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You can turn it into a entry in the main namespace very easily - click the Move tab at the top while on [[User:Growly]] and select to move it to just Growly. Untick the checkbox offered for moving talk pages, otherwise it will copy this text as well (normally you want it to when moving pages, but not in this case).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To link the two pages, you can use the &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;{{Contributor}} and (optionately) {{ContributorU}}&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; tags. You can see the first one in use on the GreenReaper page above. Oh, and another tip - if you type &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;~~~~&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; then it will turn into a signature that you can use on Talk: pages, like this: --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 01:13, 7 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::To clarify: You'd put &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;{{Contributor|Growly}}&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; to get the right result. And let's pretend I didn't just make up the word &amp;quot;optionately&amp;quot; in the above sentence. ;-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 01:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [[BritFur]] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can inform you with 100% confidence that there is no such thing as a BritFur convention.  The site was set up by a Tippus Tailus with the thought that if he announces when and where before even booking or consulting anyone, it'd happen.  As such, it is not happening and the site itself is quite simply full of lies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, I reccomend the &amp;quot;BritFur&amp;quot; link be removed from upcoming events as it is most certainly not happening!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for the info - I've removed it from the events calendar. I joined NorthernFurs today so I'll have a look this evening and see if I can find some references on it. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::If you're on about joining IRC channels, I hang out in #UK on Furnet --[[User:SlyCat|SlyCat]] 20:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Interestingly, since he is [http://www.britfur.co.uk/2006/guest/index.html mentioned on their web pages], I asked [[Kagemushi|Kage]] what he had heard about Britfur. He said that he was contacted by one of the organizers offering to have him as a [[Guest of Honor]] about two years ago, then received a phone call a few weeks later stating that they wished to reconsider the offer due to the expense. That was the last he had heard from them. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 15:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A New Policy ==&lt;br /&gt;
There seems to be some confusion about our policies regarding vanity pages, &amp;quot;encyclopedic-ness&amp;quot;, and what constitutes an acceptable article. I cobbled together a first pass at a policy, perhaps something that can be added to [[Wikifur:What Wikifur is not]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''''Vanity Articles'''''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Vanity articles, that is, articles about a person or project which are written by the article subject or someone involved with a project, are acceptable on WikiFur, unlike Wikipedia. In order for WikiFur to remain a useful resource for information, these articles must be factual and concise. Articles which are written for humor value or are lacking in reliable, documentable sources are likely to be edited for accuracy, or if the information is not documentable, deleted altogether.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''If you have humorous or non-factual information you would like to provide, provide a forum for commentary about yourself or your project, or wish to provide other non-encyclopedic information (within existing WikiFur policies and the boundaries of good taste), you are welcome to create a WikiFur account and post that in the User: namespace pages.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will freely admit that this is written purely to address some of my own pet peeves :-) What do you think? Can this be improved? Am I off-base in my interpretation? --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 15:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I vote for this to be included in full. :) Sounds like a good addition and clarification. Can this be moved to some sort of public space for voting and discussion? --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 17:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Since it is something that we '''do''' support, perhaps it should go on [[WikiFur:What WikiFur is]] instead, under &amp;quot;WikiFur is about furries and the furry fandom&amp;quot;? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That would work too. I figured it would fit under [[Wikifur:What Wikifur is not]] solely due to the existing mention of vanity pages under that heading, but either location would be fine by me. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 20:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That works for me as well. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 02:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== RE: ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
all good, and thank you^^&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
this is the first time iv used a wiki for other then looking up stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
i hope to add more stuff on whatever i see intrest in&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
awsome things these wikis are^^&lt;br /&gt;
a bit confussing for a noob, but ill get the hang of it alls --[[User:FishyBoner|FishyBoner]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the msg ^_^&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:HelenBaby|HelenBaby]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== &amp;quot;User&amp;quot; vs &amp;quot;normal&amp;quot; pages ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm afraid I'm still too wiki-newb to understand the difference.  What is supposed to go on a 'normal' vs. 'user' page, such as my own (Chibiabos vs. User:Chibiabos)?  I've been doing my user page to talk about all my projects and characters and things, and the 'normal' (non-user) Chibiabos page to just talk about the Chibiabos character as it appeared in my MUSH I ran a few years back.  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 21:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I should probably have taken the opportunity to explain after my earlier edits. :-) Our current convention is to use the page in the main namespace for both the person ''and'' their character, if under the same name. This is partially due to the integration of many people's characters with their personality, but also because by convention a User: page is a personal message ''from'' a user (first-person), while the other page is ''about'' the person (third-person). Compare [[GreenReaper]] and [[User:GreenReaper]]. This distinction is considered more important than that between a player and their [[fursona]]. Moreover, most of the time people will be referring to people not their characters, and it gets annoying to remember to type User: all over the place - normal articles should link to other normal articles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This policy makes a bit more sense on Wikipedia, where most users will not have pages about themselves because they are non-notable individuals (under their definition). However, it seems to work OK here, and it helps separate the personal message on the User page (which is controlled by you) from the description of yourself (which others should feel free to edit). Hope that clears things up for you! --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 00:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Another thing to note: An awful lot of people that we write about do not ''have'' accounts under their names, and so we might well write about someone and find that their account was owned by another (or that they'd used a different account name). Again, this relates to the difference between the idea of a person and the user that is editing the wiki that just happens to be that person as well. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 00:37, 22 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Heya, ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Heya, ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the advice, I'll re-upload some of those illos tomarow (it's late)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Humor in entries ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How forbidden is it?  I couldn't resist: [[Mare (Poem)]] - [[Stallion (Poem)]]  [[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 22:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Humour, in-jokes and the like aren't forbidden (see [[Adam's Mark]]), but I'd prefer it if those ''particular'' articles were be moved into in the User: namespace and linked from the page [[User:Chibiabos|by]] or [[Chibiabos|about]] you. If it were a part of a larger work then that might be a different story, but as it is now they're simply not really that relevant to the wider furry community and - let's face it - are unlikely to gain any such relevance. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Though you didn't ask about it, the songs are less of a concern because they show their significance and relevance to others. Essentially, if it doesn't talk about any other people or link to other articles (except for dictionary definitions) then it's a sign that it's probably &amp;quot;personal&amp;quot; content that should be in the &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[User:&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; namespace, especially if there's no reason to believe it could be expanded further. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 10:58, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh, and we tend to avoid using capitals for parenthesised words unless they should be used normally to fit with the rest of the [[Help:Furry Book of Style|house style]], so &amp;quot;(poem)&amp;quot; is preferred over &amp;quot;(Poem)&amp;quot;. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 11:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Qwika searches you / Permission to use the Wikifur logo ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hello&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My name's Luke Metcalfe. Me and my colleagues launched a site last month called Qwika. It's a search engine designed specifically for wikis. We've recently added Wikifur to our index. Some example searches:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.qwika.com&lt;br /&gt;
/find/h-con&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.qwika.com/find/Sanguine&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We would like to make some interface improvements to our site such that our users can see a small edition of the logo for each WikiCity. We would like your permission to use this, and also a small version on the homepage, just as part of a list of wikis we cover.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have any questions or comments, I'd love to hear them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cheers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Luke Metcalfe&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.rapint.com&lt;br /&gt;
Phone / Fax: +612 8221 9721 (24 hrs)&lt;br /&gt;
ICQ MSN Skype Y!: orchycore&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''I replied to this over AIM, giving permission for the logo to be used (and a few suggestions).'' --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 09:31, 24 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Muppet Wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, Laurence -- I just wanted to follow up on our conversation on [http://muppet.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page Muppet Wiki]. I think you were left with the wrong impression about us, and I wouldn't want you to pass your misapprehension on to other people at Wikicities.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On [http://muppet.wikicities.com/wiki/User_talk:Toughpigs my talk page], you said:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''That is also the root with my disagreement with your blocking policy - I think that it turns a certain proportion of people away unnecessarily and makes the place less successful than it could otherwise be. I may be wrong, but I look at the other wikis that succeed while allowing people to continue editing anonymously and I find it hard to believe.'' &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You seem to think that Muppet Wiki isn't as successful as other wikis here, and actually it's the other way around. We're currently the #2 most successful Wikicity, with [http://starwars.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page Star Wars] at #1. After four months, Muppet Wiki has over 7600 articles, with 50 active contributors and over 500 edits a day. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By way of comparison, [http://creatures.wikicities.com/wiki/Creatures_Wiki_Homepage Creatures Wiki] has 2400 pages, and gets about 30 edits a day. [[Main Page|WikiFur]] has 3200 pages, and about 150 edits a day. [http://tardis.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page Doctor Who] has five active users, [http://mac.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page Mac] has two, [http://doom.wikicities.com/wiki/Entryway Doom] has about ten, and [http://genealogy.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page Genealogy] doesn't seem to have any. The current Featured Wiki, [http://radiocontrol.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_page Radio Control], was abandoned, and now has one active user. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It looks like there's Star Wars as the most active Wikicity, and then there's Muppet Wiki, and then nobody else really comes close. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would suggest that the people at Wikicities look at the way we run things at Muppet Wiki with an open mind. Our approach seems to be working better than almost anything else here. It's possible that the principles that you've inherited from Wikipedia don't apply to small niche wikis. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it would be fun to have a meeting on the IRC, with the Wikicities staff and our four admins, to talk about how Muppet Wiki could be used as a model for how to run a successful wiki. If you think that's a good idea, please let me know! -- Danny ''[[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] 17:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I feel compelled to mention the major effect on wiki's level of use is bound to be from their topics. For the record, I was one of the anonymous ones drawn to Muppet Wiki by the topic, but I made a handful of edits and the tone of the &amp;quot;Hi, how about getting a user name&amp;quot; message drove me away. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 22:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hi Danny! Firstly, I was actually aware that Muppet was one of the most successful Wikicities - indeed, [[w:c:muppet:Talk:Main_Page#Redesign|as I mentioned]], that was why I was trying to improve the front page in the first place! Referring specifically to the front page edits, I was thinking more of it improving the site for casual visitors than editors - people make a first impression of a website at the second they arrive, and I didn't want to risk them thinking that it wasn't worth their time looking around. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::As Sine says, the topic of the wiki is a major factor in its success. I would tend to say that growth to the capacity of the associated community and its culture base is inevitable once given a good start. The Creatures community had many thousands in its day, but that was six years ago and it is strictly limited in size now - therefore, there are limits to the size and popularity of its associated wiki. However, that is clearly not the only factor. More important is what you put on the pages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Fan encyclopedias are essentially about culture. The Creatures Wiki it is only as big as it is due to the large number of breeds, addons (COBs) and websites that have articles about them. Of course, there is not a lot to be said for some of them, and so the [http://wikicities.com/wikistatsnew/EN/TablesWikipediaCREATURES.htm mean page size] is smaller. [http://wikicities.com/wikistatsnew/EN/TablesWikipediaMUPPET.htm Muppet]'s are even smaller (or were in January - it may have changed since then, but the mean doesn't tend to change by much), most likely due to the large number of episodes, characters, stories and the like that have articles. This is one reason to be wary of article count as a measure of success - one month ago Muppet Wiki was 2.6Mb in size, while [http://wikicities.com/wikistatsnew/EN/TablesWikipediaFURRY.htm WikiFur was 3.5Mb]. Conversely, [http://wikicities.com/wikistatsnew/EN/TablesWikipediaSTARWARS.htm Star Wars was 21Mb]. Even if Muppet Wiki has doubled in size over the past month (which is possible, and cool if true), it is a bit of a stretch to put it in a class of its own.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Wikis are always very busy when they first start out, but they tend to get slower as convenient sources of information are &amp;quot;used up&amp;quot;. I have a feeling that a large part of the Muppet Wiki's overnight success in terms of size is the great number of sources that are already available in a database-like format. You do have quite a few people, but it seems like the majority of the edits are coming from [http://wikicities.com/wikistatsnew/EN/TablesWikipediaMUPPET.htm#wikipedians several high-volume editors]. I know from my work on the Creatures Wiki that it is a lot easier to write about something if you already have a large set of facts about it available. The [[w:c:muppet:Things you can do|Things you can do]] page is a good example of leveraging existing resources to create content. We don't have that luxury - there is a published Encyclopedia Fragglia, and other published sources of information collected over the course of the 50 years that the Muppets have been around, but there's no such Encyclopedia Furry yet - we like to think we're writing it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Sine here is a good example of why I feel that the policy of blocking contributors who have little interest in participating socially is an incorrect one. Sine made over 200 edits before creating an account, many of them entirely new articles. This sort of situation does not occur all that much, but it does happen, enough that 18% of our edits come from anonymous users. Conversely, we've found that many of those who [[Special:Activeusers|make accounts]] only post for a short amount of time (often once about themselves) and then disappear. I agree that a level of community is helpful and probably even necessary for a successful wiki project. However, I don't think that you ''need'' to exclude those that don't want to be a part of that community unless they are actively harming it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You're welcome to join us in [irc://irc.freenode.net/wikicities #wikicities] - I'm surprised that there are not more people from Muppet in there given its popularity. If you want to talk to the [[Wikicities:Wikia|Wikia staff]] then it would probably be the best place. I'm sure they'd be interested in discussing things with you, though I don't know that there's really a time when everyone's guaranteed to be around - I know [[Wikicities:User:Angela|Angela]] and [[Wikicities:User:Tim_Starling|Tim]] are in Australia, which can make coordination a bit tricky. Also, have you considered presenting your theories of wiki management at [http://wikimania.wikimedia.org/ WikiMania]? Community wikis are something that I think would be an interesting topic to discuss there. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC):::&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Hi! Andrew from Muppet Wiki here, weighing in. To quote you, Laurence: ''Sine here is a good example of why I feel that the policy of blocking contributors who have little interest in participating socially is an incorrect one.'' That's a bit of a misunderstanding, which I think your comment about real names on Muppet Wiki also shows. Registering and participating socially aren't the same thing. While we like to know people's real names (I know it makes it easier to treat users as people and not floating entities, and I feel I've made friends with folks like Danny and Scott and Brad and other Muppet Wiki regulars, which might have happened anyway but it's easier than if I knew them only as &amp;quot;FlyingSaucerhead666777LOL&amp;quot; or what have you. The real name is not a policy, just a strong suggestion, and it lets us put them on a community portal. Several new users have registered but not responded to messages. However, they're making clearly useful edits, and the username allows them and us to see what a help they've been. If they want to talk with us, that would be nice, but there's no penalty against it. Also, Sine, when did you visit us? The username thing has only been around for a month, and is still being tested. I apologize if it seemed too harsh to you, but I'm hoping you're beginning to see that there's method to our madness. There's four admins, all of whom have fulltime jobs or school outside of the Wiki, and the policy was developed after a rash of anonymous, truculent users and spammers were basically wasting all of our time, and I know I myself have been extremely stressed out about it. Is letting every anonymous user basically screw about and trying to revert them, sometimes five times in a row (for things which are akin to vandalism, but not outright spamming, i.e. inserting one opinionated sentence over and over), important enough to sacrifice our own mental health and energy? Softening the text has been suggested before, and I'm certainly willing to listen. --Andrew, ''[[User:Aleal|Aleal]] 03:31, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Here’s a few facts about our “exclusion.” (Warning, this is lengthy, but useufl I think) Of approximately 68 blocked Ips to date (generally spammers and trolls posting obscenities about Elmo, Kofi Annan, or Elton John), only 25 have been blocked with the User Name policy states as a reason. Of those, three were the same person, who kept making odd edits about Cookie Monster being an obscene reference. Two were the same IP for a person who kept posting odd messages which could be summarized as “Its stupid for Pigs in Space to have Swedish Chef  as an alien and I’ll keep adding my opinion until I die”. Two IPS were a chap who apparently had a grudge against an obscure character.&lt;br /&gt;
::*One contributed demonstrably false information repeatedly, &lt;br /&gt;
::*One was the same as a previously registered user who had been blocked for amongst other things sending a barage of near-harassment e-mails to an admin  &lt;br /&gt;
::*One kept switching questionable dates and refused to respond to our queries to him, &lt;br /&gt;
::*One basically acted like a jerk on pages (basically saying info was wrong and insisting he was right, but as he “wasn’t a joiner,” he refused to give any indication of what his source was except a general “trust me”),  &lt;br /&gt;
::*One was actually a vandal (changing descriptions of Caroll Spinney to “the bird man”) but we gave him a username message anyway with its accompanying e-mail address if he wanted to play nice, &lt;br /&gt;
one did post some useful stuff but with a lot of NPOV (and again, refused to answer queries or suggestions about editing etiquette),&lt;br /&gt;
::*One made really strange comparisons which all had to be reverted &lt;br /&gt;
::*One created a page full of speculation and false info about a not yet released DVD (and when it was removed to a talk page, kept changing the same info on the talk page),  &lt;br /&gt;
::*One kept editing a page to state how annoying another minor character was,  another posted some useful info but also an obsessively long and irrelevant history of “Wheel of Fortune”, &lt;br /&gt;
::*One was yet another random unexplained date changer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think I'm missing a couple more same IP situations, but basically, that accounts for 16 out of 25. Of the remainder, one was an accidental block which was reverted. So that leaves 8 people who were excluded (mostly folks just adding a period). It is kind of a shame, yes, but they can e-mail to get back in, and like I said, this is all an experiment (and a few of those basically linked to pages that didn't exist and in general didn't understand how a Wiki worked and showed no interest in learning). Though the policy claimes there's a five anonymous edit trial period, in many cases we've let them slide for up to ten or more, depending on the kind of edits they make.  If other Wikicities folks are put off by the policy and don't join, that's also a shame but really, there's no point in worrying about people who choose not to participate for one reason or another, on the off chance that one is a long lost Muppet genius or truly brilliant writer who also likes Muppets. For the record, we've also unblocked two more users fairly recently, after questions were raised, to see if they come back and give them more time, as their edits were either useful or questionable (random name reordering) but not outright falsifying or vandalism,&lt;br /&gt;
::Finally, one more note on the policy. Yes, we have a community, and we invite others to participate in it. But there's a difference between &amp;quot;forcing socialization&amp;quot; and expecting basic etiquette, respect, and really just simple communication. There's one anonymous editor who has posted to talk pages, giving a name but not choosing to register, and really doing some useful work, though he only pops in twice a month or so. We haven't blocked him, though we've encouraged him to register, and I doubt we will. Why? Because he's read the FAQ, reads talk pages, in general is aware of what we're trying to accomplish with certain larger projects rather than just blanking or changing things to fit his own view and ignoring what all other editors do, causing edit wars. Apart from the &amp;quot;trust me&amp;quot; guy, not one of the blocked users I've listed ever responded to any direct friendly greetings, questions, or warnings. --Andrew, ''[[User:Aleal|Aleal]] 04:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Hi there Andrew - thanks for chiming in with your reasoning, and the more detailed analysis of who and what has been affected. I think the idea of a lone muppet genius is suitable for a special muppet in and of itself. I can just imagine them with lots of scraggly thread-hair and a nervous tic. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I guess the nickname issue is just a difference of opinion and usage - one which I've noticed before in one other community. I've never had a problem making friends with people using only nicknames. Indeed, I know ''most'' of my friends by them, and I'd find it less convenient otherwise due to lack of distinctiveness (I'm pretty sure I know at least three Andrews online, for example, not counting yourself). Certainly in the furry fandom there are few people who do not have and use nicknames, both online and - in many cases - in real life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I appreciate that you need methods of keeping counterproductive behaviour under control. I just don't see how the chosen solution solves your problem without causing needless tension. We ban bad editors as well, for various reasons, but quite a few of our most troublesome edits have come from people who have taken the time to register. The bad people are still likely to make edits, and the clever bad ones will realise that they can do so more easily with a username. Worse, it's quite possible to make multiple accounts on one IP and thus make it less clear who is agreeing or disagreeing with who.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:As for the user who keeps inserting the same sentance over and over again, or the date-switchers - no, if it's a problem then you should deal with it, as with the other cases you describe. But I don't see why you can't do so under policies that make it clear that you will ban them for ''that'', not for being unregistered users. You seem to be attacking the symptom, and not the cause. If the flood of edits is too much for four people to deal with (and I can understand how that would be, particularly after Something Awful paid us a visit last August), I would suggest you need to find more people from within your own ranks who you can trust with admin powers. [[WikiFur:Administrators|We have more]] - not all of them are around all the time, but enough to make me worry less about working late and not being able to look in once in a while. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh, and MediaWiki also has a feature for &amp;quot;monitoring&amp;quot; edits and flagging unmonitored ones in Recent changes. You might want to ask the Wikia team about the possibility of turning that back on for Muppet Wiki, so that you only need one admin checking each edit. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 04:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Laurence, I'm a little surprised by the way you're interpreting the facts. You said that our wiki was &amp;quot;less successful&amp;quot; because of our policies, but I'm finding it hard to pin down what your measure for success is. I'm pointing out that our article count, number of active contributors, number of edits and database size is larger than any other Wikicity except for one. In response, you suggest that the defining factor is our mean page size. I would say that's a little unfair, and I think at this point you're deliberately trying to find fault with Muppet Wiki because you don't agree with our community rules. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The question, really, is whether the Wikipedia-received philosophy that you're working with is open to evidence or not. I think that the Wikipedia rules work very well for Wikipedia, which has thousands of users, but they don't work for smaller niche wikis. I can back that up with the clear evidence of our success. I would hope that you and the other Wikicities admins are at least open to considering that evidence, and thinking about whether the structure that you're promoting is really working or not.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In your response, you were looking at some outdated stats, so here's a link to [http://www.wikicities.com/muppetstats/TablesWikipediaMUPPET.htm Muppet Wiki's current stats]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Here's what you said about database size: ''&amp;quot;This is one reason to be wary of article count as a measure of success - one month ago Muppet Wiki was 2.6Mb in size, while WikiFur was 3.5Mb. Conversely, Star Wars was 21Mb. Even if Muppet Wiki has doubled in size over the past month (which is possible, and cool if true), it is a bit of a stretch to put it in a class of its own.&amp;quot;''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::In fact, if you look at the current stats, Muppet Wiki's database is 6.1Mb. It's ''more'' than doubled in size in the past month. In fact, at this rate, it'll be more than twice as big as WikiFur within a few weeks. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's also interesting to compare the number of contributors. You said that Muppet Wiki has &amp;quot;several high-volume editors&amp;quot; -- in fact, according to the latest stats, we have 11 contributors who have made over 1000 edits. WikiFur only has four contributors who have made that many edits -- and according to your post, many of your contributors sign on, create a page about themselves, and leave. Apparently, Muppet Wiki isn't just better at attracting contributors; we're better at keeping them, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's easy to come up with explanations for why Muppet Wiki is an &amp;quot;overnight success&amp;quot; -- we have a great topic, we tapped into an existing fan community, we're working from existing databases. But really, those are just excuses. I think it's obvious that we're an overnight success because we know how to grow and manage a small, active wiki. I think you ought to consider that maybe somebody else has a really good idea that you could learn something from.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Now, we're not coming here to have a pissing contest with you about whose wiki is bigger, or better. The point is that I care a lot about Wikicities, and I think that the administrators here are making some mistakes in the way that you deal with the people on the wikis. I think that the evidence is right there for you to see. The vast majority of wikis on this site are limping along at best. And, unfortunately, now that you have a new successful wiki here, the only thing you can do is come up with reasons to criticize us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Here's my final point, and I think it's very revealing about the way that Wikicities administrators are running things. Muppet Wiki has been in operation for close to four months, and in that time, we've become the second most popular wiki here. Let's do the numbers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::''Number of Wikicities admins who have come by to complain about our policies, and tell us that we don't know how to run a successful wiki:'' Three.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::''Number of Wikicities admins who have come by to say, wow, you guys are really active and successful, it looks like you're doing a nice job:'' Zero.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::You guys talk a lot about supporting healthy, active communities, but nobody from Wikicities has ''ever'' said a single nice word about our wiki, in all the time that we've been here. In fact, on this very page, all you can do is come up with reasons to tear us down and make us feel bad. You keep saying that we're excluding people, and not being friendly. Would it kill you to say something nice once in a while? Any of you? -- Danny ''[[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] 05:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Andrew: Thinking about it, the problem is not just the people you block; it's the people that you leave messages for who decide never to come back. I noticed in particular the text &amp;quot;it'll help you (and everyone) keep track of your contributions&amp;quot; on the first line. That's ''your'' reason for wanting it, and its tone puts me off the idea of registering. Perhaps you need more carrots? There are many good reasons for registering that are totally unconnected with everyone knowing who is doing what. You could make a page [[Help:Registration|like this one]] explaining in more detail why they should register, and emphasising its speed and nonintrusivity. As I touched on above, an awful lot of things are not written down in the furry fandom, and I wouldn't want to lose the only people who know about them just because they felt pressured to join up or leave. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 08:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for pointing out those updated stats for me. If I had been aware of them, I would probably not have made some of the assertions I made above, as they do paint a clearer picture of your current status. I will have to ask JasonR/Tim how they're doing about getting that integrated with the main system, because I know we all want them. I would note that [http://google.com/analytics Google Analytics] is also worth installing if you wish to know more about where your visitors are coming from and where they are going.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I do still believe the &amp;quot;excuses&amp;quot; I made for Muppet Wiki's growth are good excuses - or rather, I honestly think that they are major reasons for its growth. The fact that Muppet Wiki has gotten to the point where these factors start to '''''matter''''' and drive the continued growth is the one that I consider to be attributable to Muppet's  core leadership. Let me be clear on one thing, if nothing else - '''I think that it is great that we have another successful wikicity, and without you and your friends it would never have happened.''' I hope you manage to find the time to enjoy it as well as to run it! Perhaps when the [http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?TargetReached target is reached] . . .&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::If you think that Wikia (who I do not represent) is doing a bad job in terms of community outreach - well, maybe you're right. Ultimately, though, their first job is to make sure that things run smoothly, which is hard enough when you have one wiki to deal with, let alone a thousand. It's all to easy to focus on the problems rather than the good things that are happening. If you want to improve that, then why not hang around in IRC and drop a few links to some of your neater articles as they come up? Maybe we would have a greater appreciation of the highlights of Muppet Wiki if we knew about them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I checked out the IRC log for last month. We all said the same things I've said recently - that we thought it would discourage casual contributors, and probably wouldn't solve your problem. Was it that surprising that the same people who'd talked about it were concerned to hear that you'd implemented it anyway? Remember, their job is to solve problems, and trust me, it sure ''sounds'' like a problem if people are getting banned from a wiki just for not logging in. While the problem you have needs a solution - large numbers of troublesome IP edits that your admin team don't have time to handle - I still think that adding admins is a far better route than to try to eliminate the IPs with a &amp;quot;join up or don't contribute&amp;quot; policy. If you are spending all your time fighting fires then there will be less time to drive other projects, and if you all burn out then there will be nobody to take over.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::With all that said - I did start editing at Muppet Wiki a fortnight ago with the specific goal of making the most improvement in the shortest amount of time - about two hours, initially. Ultimately, I did the same thing as the Wikia members of staff - I saw what I considered to be a problem, and I tried to fix it. I made the mistake of not leaving fast enough after that, instead realising that I disagreed with several more things and trying to fix them as well. That ''was'' arrogant of me, no doubt, and I apologise for it. I would probably be tempted to do it again, though, so forgive me for not coming over to congratulate you on the new layout! I've already spent over a day more than I intended dealing with this, and my manager is probably wondering what that strange eye logo on my web browser is. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I now think I understand why Wikicities has failed to be the all-embracing happy family of co-contributing wikis that was originally envisioned. For a wiki to succeed, it must have a strong leadership team with a clear vision that can build a community. It is hard enough to find that, but it is even harder to get such teams to work together (because they all ''have'' to believe they have good ideas, and want to implement them, otherwise they wouldn't have gone to the considerable trouble of properly founding a wiki). Even when they do join forces, they don't have the time to give the group project their full attention due to prior commitments to their own projects.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::As for contributing to '''each other's''' wikis . . . well, in at least one case that hasn't worked out quite as intended, has it? :-) I suspect that if the person concerned is ''that'' interested enough to take time off from other projects to gain contributor status and join another wiki's culture, then they'd probably already have founded it. We have many separate wikicities now, but &amp;quot;separate&amp;quot; is the key word. There are fifty internal links to every one interwiki link . . . and [http://wikicities.com/wikistatsnew/EN/TablesDatabaseWikiLinks.htm almost all of them] are between the four different languages of [[MemoryAlpha:|Memory Alpha]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think the concept of [[Wikicities:Wikicitizens|wikicitizens]] who travel freely between wikis is inherently flawed - no-one can truly be a member of every wikicity, just as nobody can have citizenship in more than a few countries. It is a shame, but I don't really see a way around it. At least the GFDL is in place, so the best wiki syntax ideas can be copied from one wiki to another, but it's harder to copy culture piecemeal. I don't really want to have to wait until I decide to move on and [http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?StartAgain start again] to try things, though, so I'll have a look at what you've done (particularly in the area of making talk pages more discoverable, which would probably help here) and maybe try implementing similar things here and see how they go. Fair deal? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 08:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm afraid you've lost me completely. People we leave messages for who decide never to come back? I have no idea what Sine's situation was, but in keeping track of patterns in both editing and our responses to them, I've yet to see an occasion where we post a welcome and then that person leaves. Whether to make useful edits or to post nonsense, they stick around. A registration page might not hurt, but I also don't see what's wrong about suggesting users might find the watchlist useful, and that if other editors can see what they're doing, they can assist, congratulate, and generally pitch in. As I've said several times before, I understand the concern about our policies but only if you think they'll set a nasty precedent. Like I keep saying, it's an experiment born from necessity. And it *has* cut down on fires. The biggest fires stressing me out right now are these sort of discussions, which keep pulling me and the others away from fun projects (such as seeing how many American states we can create pages for with in terms of their Muppet context, from filming locations and references to birth places) has me incredibly stressed. We greet people and try to be as friendly as possible. I make a point of putting a specific compliment or suggestion to almost every anonymous user I can. You mentioned our way of banning those who repeatedly add nonsense sentences, not saying we shouldn't ban them, but that we shouldn't bring up the username policy? When that happens, as opposed to outright vandals, we *always* include an e-mail address where they can explain what they were trying to do if they're genuinely clueless or good natured but a bit confused. Basically, we're giving those people a greater benefit of the doubt. Anyway, I'm tired of this whole thing which started when you redesigned our page without even so much as &amp;quot;Hi!&amp;quot; and then complained about how we were voting about it. I respect your position as admin, but please, respect ours and what we're trying to do, which you admit you have no real interest in and have generally given an impression of not really having looked at the Wiki outside of the design page and the discussions related to it. &lt;br /&gt;
:::I would like to reiterate that a) we're not forcing people to socialize, b) we don't block people just for not registering, we block them for not communicating in anyway; they can be unsigned in but communicate, or they can register and be silent, but those who do both have by editing patterns proven to be counterproductive, as we just have to keep reverting them 5 or 10 times in a row; c) the real name thing is *not* a policy, and we have at least four or five active contributors I can think of right now, plus some new ones, who register but don't want their real name on the Wiki and we respect that (and it should be noted that just today, ''Sesame Street'' writer/composer Christopher Cerf, who was part of the show from the beginning through the 90s, registered under his real name, edited and *explained* each edit, and generally has been friendly and correcting far more misinformation and adding more good stuff in just three posts than this mythical anonymous user who won't even say hi or register or anything but knows more than anyone else about Muppets). &lt;br /&gt;
:::This has been an experiment, and in fact we've had to date at least 8 to ten users, whether they stick around for long or not, who registered as a direct response to the Username policy, having had enough time to play around and see what we're doing. If we can see that it's not working, we'll try something else. Anyway, all the best to you. It's not worth my losing any more sleep over this matter. How about we agree to disagree and stay in our own spheres, until/unless anyone within Muppet Wiki, anonymous or registered, complains about how we run things, or how we choose to design our main page? :)  --Andrew, ''[[User:Aleal|Aleal]] 11:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Laurence, I'm glad to hear that you'll take another look at Muppet Wiki. That's really all that I'd ask, for people to just look around and see how it's going. When you do that, if you have any thoughts or questions about anything, feel free to post on my page and ask me about it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I absolutely understand that people don't have time to be a real contributing part of the other wikis -- everybody's busy working on their own, or at least we should be! I just have one suggestion, which I'll offer to you and all of the Wikicities admins. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I think it would be a good idea if some of the Wikicities admins made it a practice to visit other wikis once in a while, and say something encouraging. If you only come in to &amp;quot;fix a problem&amp;quot;, then you're going to get a bad response, especially if the community doesn't perceive it to be a problem. On the other hand, ''everybody'' appreciates a compliment. It's one of the basic principles of how to give feedback -- you say something nice first, before you say something critical. Giving encouragement helps people to trust you, and like you, and then you earn the right to criticize.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So this is my proposal for any Wikicities admin who feels like doing it: Every once in a while -- maybe once a week -- pick a wiki to visit. It could be an active one, or a struggling one. Look at the recent changes list, and click on a couple of articles that look interesting. Try to get a sense of what the community is working on at the moment. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Then just post something nice. It could be on the talk page of a well-written article, or the user page for the person who wrote it, or an admin's user page. Just say, &amp;quot;Hey, that's a neat article. I didn't know that (pick an interesting fact). Looks like you guys are doing a good job on this wiki. If there's anything I can help you with, let me know.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::That whole thing could take about half an hour. I think if you guys are spending time chatting on the IRC, then you probably have half an hour once a week to go pick a wiki and poke around on it. It would probably even energize you and keep you focused on why Wikicities is a good place -- you'll get to visit a bunch of other &amp;quot;countries&amp;quot;, and maybe learn something that you didn't know before. Now that I think about it, it sounds like fun to me too, so maybe I'll start doing it myself. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Anyway, the point is that it would create a nice feeling of community among all the disparate wikis here. We don't have to be contributors on each other's wikis, but it would be nice if we were friendly colleagues. It would also build trust between a wiki's leadership team and the Wikicities admins -- so when an actual problem comes up, they'll appreciate your help. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So I hope that's helpful. As heated as this conversation has gotten in places, I'm glad that we've had the chance to talk about this stuff. -- Danny ''[[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] 14:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Andrew: Seems fine with me. I'm sure that if changes in your policies or guidelines appear to be necessary, your own users will suggest them in time. I shouldn't have tried to speed up the process by (e.g.) importing voting process ideas from Wikipedia, since as you say, it's a different place, and I was personally involved with the outcome of the vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Danny: That's a good idea, and what you say makes sense. I will suggest it to the Wikia admins and the other Wikicities founders that I'm friends with. I know they've been watching; I directed them here when it became clear that it was an issue with wider relevance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The more I think about it, the more the &amp;quot;Wikicountries&amp;quot; idea seems more relevant. Countries often have heated disagreements about how other countries do things, often rooted in a lack of understanding about why things are that way due to inexperience with foreign culture or situations. Some sort of &amp;quot;cultural exchange&amp;quot; program like you suggest does seem appropriate. I think the Featured Wikicity program was partly an attempt at that, but it's not specifically targeted for that problem, and it relies on people from the wiki concerned coming out and explaining what's cool rather than others going in and understanding it for themselves (enough to write about it, say). We need both.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I have to go to work now, so I'll be brief. Good luck with your projects, and let's hope we never have to go to war. I hate to think of what it would do to the [[Funday PawPet Show|FPS]] crew to have to choose sides. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 16:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I think another possible metaphor is [[Wikipedia:Federalism|federalism]], which is the way things work in the US. There's an overarching &amp;quot;national&amp;quot; structure (Wikicities), and then each wiki is a state, or a (wiki)city.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::There's some &amp;quot;national&amp;quot; laws that apply to all the wikis -- we don't harass or insult people, we assume good faith, we don't violate copyright. If we want to be accepted as part of this country, then we need to abide by the federal laws.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::And then within that national structure, there's room for a state to make its own laws, based on things that only affect that state. In the US, states can make their own laws about school funding, or abortion, or the death penalty. The federal government only gets involved if you cross state lines, or if a case gets appealed up to federal court. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So for us here on Wikicities, individual wikis get to set their own policies, and run things the way that they want to. Some wikis are run well, and they prosper. Others are run badly, and they stagnate. You might like the way they run things on a particular wiki, or not, but that's federalism for you. Ultimately, a wiki can be judged on its own terms -- by how well it's performing, and how happy the people are.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you don't have to worry about a &amp;quot;war&amp;quot;, there's no chance of that. It would be like Massachusetts declaring war on Connecticut. You might think, man, the people in Montana just don't have a clue, but that's a problem for the citizens of Montana to figure out. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::The wikis don't have to compete with each other. We're all part of the same project, and in the big picture, we're all working together to make the United States of Wikicities stronger and better. -- Danny ''[[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] 16:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hmm. States going to war over ideological issues - you mean [[Wikipedia:American Civil War|like this]]? :-) But yes, I get your point. I think that the only real &amp;quot;wars&amp;quot; that have or will occur are between wikicities and other web communities that hold an opposing point of view. Most wiki editors understand the relative ease of defending the home turf from having done so before, so they're unlikely to bother going on the offensive even if they're firmly opposed to another wiki (e.g. NRA Forever vs Gun Control Wiki), but we've had a few experiences with forums and LiveJournal communities that were less than pleasant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Now all we need is a national motto! Maybe we could steal &amp;quot;United in diversity&amp;quot; . . . --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 18:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thank You ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:''Hi there, Ransom, and welcome to WikiFur! Thanks for your contributions so far - let me know if you need any help not already provided. :-) --[[user:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;(talk)&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 16:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for the warm welcome.  I spend most of my time just drawing, so it's been a while since I put my writing skills to any use, but I'm looking to polish the rust off.  WikiFur is a really interesting concept.  Someone's already written a little blurb about me, which is pretty slick, and I intend to write more about others I know.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks again, and take it easy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[user:Ransom|Ransom]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Main wiki links ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, to my question to [[user:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] here (would still like my humor question above the muppet wiki discussion answered if you can, when convenient) is whether it is preferable to link to an already existing article on another wiki or to create a localized furry wiki version in addition to the link.  Purely as an example, there is a lengthy one on [[Wikipedia:zoophilia|zoophilia]] and a local article on [[zoophilia]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The question arises as I was looking to put together a biographical page on [[Timothy Albee]] when, googling his name to try and find a bio page for him, I discovered he already has a wiki entry on [[[[Wikipedia:Timothy Albee|Wikipedia]].  Should I copy that locally and work off it, or change all the ''Timothy Albee'' links I find to point to the [[Wikipedia]] article, which would seem to be more logical (so various wikis, including furry wiki, can share the same article and thus all benefit as folk expand, expound and update that shared article)?  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 07:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:While I'm not GreenReaper, my opinion is that it is preferable to have both. Where the subject you wish to link or discuss is primarily furry-oriented, it would be better to have a more complete article on WikiFur, but of course, [[WikiFur:What WikiFur is not#Wikifur is not Wikipedia|WikiFur is not meant to be a copy of Wikipedia]], so by all means expand any incomplete articles that do get copied (and don't forget the attribution tag mentioned in the afore-linked policy, as it links to the original article). If there is a relevant article on Wikipedia or some other wiki or website, which could not be improved or made more relevant to the furry fandom by copying to WikiFur (or in the case of non-Wikipedia articles, would be a copyright violation to bring over), it is entirely appropriate to provide links to it and let others view the content in its original home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:What I would '''not''' want to see is a redirect to an external site. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 08:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Timothy Albee is arguably very relevant to the furry community, but I actually think that's a good case for linking to the [[Wikipedia]] site instead and keeping that up to date ... is there a way to link back to wikifur from wikipedia in articles there?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think if we could share back and forth like this, someone might stumble on something (like they were looking up Timothy Albee on wikipedia because of something else he'd done), and find links to wikifur and be able to find out stuff about the furry fandom that way.  Hey, reading about it on wikipedia linked to wikifur beats basing their view of furrydom from ''Fur and Loathing'', doesn't it?  --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 09:24, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:My personal view is also that it is better to have two articles in this sort of situation. There is duplication, it is true, and the chance of redundancy, but it also makes it far easier to find links (many contributors will not know to look in Wikipedia) and it allows us to build up versions that are better than Wikipedia (due to internal linking) and then export them - something like [[Wikipedia:Ursa Major Awards|Ursa Major Awards]], only that didn't exist beforehand. You might think that people will add more interwiki links later but realistically I do not think this is likely to happen. It also means the article can be included in our categorization structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You can link to WikiFur from Wikipedia by adding the prefix &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[WikiFur:&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;. I am reluctant to do ''too'' much in the way of interwiki links on Wikipedia due to perception of them as &amp;quot;leeching&amp;quot;. I have tested this out with fairly innocuous links and people were [[Wikipedia:User:GreenReaper/Village pump discussion of Stardock and WikiFur|a little concerned]] even then. However, in cases where a topic is ''never'' going to be suitable for a Wikipedia article it is probably defensible to link to '''good''' articles on a topic. Of course, if the article is that good it is likely to be on a topic that is covered in Wikipedia as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This obviously does not apply to all people, just those that are of particular relevance to the fandom and where it is likely that information will be added here that would not be added by Wikipedia editors (and yes, WikiFur editors might get there too, but they're less likely to edit a Wikipedia article, less likely to know how to link back here, etc.). This one appears to be a borderline case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I guess the question is &amp;quot;is he actually ''in'' the furry fandom, or likely to be mentioned in several WikiFur articles?&amp;quot;  If either of these are true then I would tend towards adding a local page and link to the Wikipedia article. If the WikiFur page had ''more'' information I would probably link back from Wikipedia to our article, either directly if the information was not appropriate for Wikipedia or by incorporating the material into the article and adding the &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;{{WikiFur|original page name}}&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; tag to the discussion for the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sorry, I missed the other question, will reply. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 10:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ASCII banner failing to show properly ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
GreenReaper wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Umm, I'm using Firefox myself, and the ascii logos work fine here. What platform and version are you on? What do they look like for you? Do you have any ideas as to what might improve the rendering? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 02:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Reply:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is the sceen shot:&lt;br /&gt;
http://vore.got-game.org/misc/Capture.png&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As you can see, there is a problem in characters alignement on my 1280x1024 screen (using Firefox v1.0.7), but this problem does not show on my laptop (1680x1050, same version of Firefox) where more room exists horizontally.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That screen looks to me as if your browser isn't rendering the ASCII title in a fixed-width font. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 21:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Wikifur's URL has changed ticker ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
WikiFur's URL has changed, don't forget to update your bookmarks! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
thinger along the top of pages isn't grammatical. I'd suggest making it two sentences. (has changed. Don't forget) but a semi-colon instead of a comma would also work. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 18:34, 27 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Good call! Feel free to [[Template:Sitenotice|edit it yourself]]. Oh, and welcome to the [[Wikifur:Administrators|admin team]]. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 18:47, 27 March 2006 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-26T20:15:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; width:250px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{|border=&amp;quot;1px&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; width: 250px; margin: auto;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Anthrocon}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Second Life}}&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg|center|frame| B&amp;amp;W, Image by '''Sunny Colaneri''', &amp;quot;Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin&amp;quot;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork of Cesarin==&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin''' style is mostly [[cutesy]] and [[toony]], his favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[bunnies]] and whatever [[huggable]] creature he may find cute. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of his pictures are [[inked]], with his personal [[style]], using a [[stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|center|frame|Prismacolored image by '''Cesarin The White DraGoN''', &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
You can find him in [[Second Life]] as [[Cesarin]] Chickenwing.&lt;br /&gt;
also inside Counter Strike Servers as the annoying -=SaRuMaN=-(note of the Artist: &amp;quot;hey!!, I do play my role!!&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-26T20:14:19Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; width:250px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{|border=&amp;quot;1px&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; width: 250px; margin: auto;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Anthrocon}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Second Life}}&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg|center|frame| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin, Image by Sunny Colaneri]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork of Cesarin==&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin''' style is mostly [[cutesy]] and [[toony]], his favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[bunnies]] and whatever [[huggable]] creature he may find cute. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of his pictures are [[inked]], with his personal [[style]], using a [[stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg|center|frame|Prismacolored image by '''Cesarin The White DraGoN''', &amp;quot;Carrot Smashers, All-male Waterpolo Team&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
You can find him in [[Second Life]] as [[Cesarin]] Chickenwing.&lt;br /&gt;
also inside Counter Strike Servers as the annoying -=SaRuMaN=-(note of the Artist: &amp;quot;hey!!, I do play my role!!&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/File:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg</id>
		<title>File:WD bunnyhuntersteam.jpg</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/File:WD_bunnyhuntersteam.jpg"/>
				<updated>2006-03-26T20:13:25Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: Drawn by Cesarin, Inked with Stylograph, and colored with prismacolor pencils.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Drawn by [[Cesarin]], Inked with [[Stylograph]], and colored with prismacolor pencils.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-26T20:07:49Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;float:right; width:250px;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{|border=&amp;quot;1px&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;text-align: center; width: 250px; margin: auto;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Anthrocon}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|{{User Second Life}}&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg|center|frame| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin, Image by Sunny Colaneri]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork of Cesarin==&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin''' style is mostly [[cutesy]] and [[toony]], his favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[bunnies]] and whatever [[huggable]] creature he may find cute. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of his pictures are [[inked]], with his personal [[style]], using a [[stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Wd_dragonassasinforwiki.jpg|center|frame|B &amp;amp; W image by '''Cesarin The White DraGoN''', &amp;quot;Dragon Assasin&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Games==&lt;br /&gt;
You can find him in [[Second Life]] as [[Cesarin]] Chickenwing.&lt;br /&gt;
also inside Counter Strike Servers as the annoying -=SaRuMaN=-(note of the Artist: &amp;quot;hey!!, I do play my role!!&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Cesarin}}&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T19:33:59Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* Furry Discovery */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg|center|frame| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin, Image by Sunny Colaneri]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork of Cesarin==&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin''' style is mostly [[cutesy]] and [[toony]], his favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[bunnies]] and whatever [[huggable]] creature he may find cute. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of his pictures are [[inked]], with his personal [[style]], using a [[stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Wd_dragonassasinforwiki.jpg|center|frame|B &amp;amp; W image by '''Cesarin The White DraGoN''', &amp;quot;Dragon Assasin&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/User_talk:Cesarin</id>
		<title>User talk:Cesarin</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/User_talk:Cesarin"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T19:32:18Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I hope people dont mind if I edit some of their wikis, specially when they have the &amp;quot;Needs arrangement&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;cleaning&amp;quot; by the admins.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
if you dont like my edits, just toss me a message and I'll stop. :&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Starscream</id>
		<title>Starscream</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Starscream"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T19:29:07Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Cleanup}}&lt;br /&gt;
==Genius. Sociopath. Inventor. Destroyer.==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Réizàr''' was born in Sayre, PA in July of 1983. Most of his early life, however, was spent in the southern US, namely Florida and Georgia. At age 8, he returned to north-central PA with his mother and sister, living there for ten years before heading off to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh in late 2001. He left half a year later and returned to Canton for a few months before returning to the south, where he currently resides.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The road of the Musician==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Réizàr's radio record, while somewhat impressive, is crippled by his record of musicianship. As of July of 2006, he will have been playing drums for 11 years, and has been in numerous bands over the years, including Synthetic Poison, Psychosis, 1000 Tragedies, Runaway Nightmare, Stillborn, I'll Tell You Later, Assorted Creatures and Murder Machine. His styles range from jazz to rock to thrash to math metal, and any combination between. Currently he owns a Pearl Export series 8-piece drum set, fleshed out with Paiste and Zildjian cymbals, Evans heads and Tama Iron Cobra pedals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the air, Réizàr's first appearance was in mid-2004, amidst the initial phase of a dissolving relationship with semifamous furry artist [[Amanda Payne]]. The show itself was a rapid-fire, hard-hitting aural assault, in what was later dubbed the ''Serial Killers'' show, which premeired daily on WPAJ Radio for a year with Réizàr (as DJ Knives) and co-host Toasty Taco. In late 2005, the show was updated, rewritten and reorganized, and became a weekly 2-hour acid-bath called ''Sick Sad World.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Current Days==&lt;br /&gt;
In early 2006, Réizàr finally officially joined the fur fandom, and also gained a spot on the [[FBC]]. And thus, ''Mediaphilia'' was born. Acquisition of a co-host turned out to be easy, and [[Ghost]] joined up for the second show. Despite having its fair share of problems (the first show was late and the second show couldn't be delivered in time due to connection issues), the show delivers more than it promises, and the duo's style hits like an anvil and leaves the audience wanting more. Or so they hope.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Furry Side==&lt;br /&gt;
In the fandom, Réizàr's avatar is a [[tiger|weretiger]], and like the mythical creature that represents him, he's quite the large fellow, peaking at almost six and a half feet and scaling at 250 pounds, or just shy of 18 stone. His most noticeable feature is the moon-and-star tattoo on the back of his left hand, but when asked for a meaning, the most one can expect of the enigmatic weretiger is a slight shrug, not out of rudeness, but because he has yet to find an actual meaning for it beyond something he drew one day in a fit of boredom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:1983 births]][[Category:Musicians]][[Category:Artists]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Second_Life</id>
		<title>Talk:Second Life</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Talk:Second_Life"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T18:27:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: /* Additions */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Series of corrections and additions that I'd like to see in said article:&lt;br /&gt;
== Corrections ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It was never Linden Lab'''s''', but was Linden '''Lab'''.&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;and the game world has mixed age ratings from PG to Mature.&amp;quot; -- s/age/content/i;&lt;br /&gt;
* Second Life is technically unable to fit into the ''MMORPG'' category, as by itself, it is not a roleplaying game. Rather, it is a platform that allows games to be built within its framework, and is a bit better classified as a richly graphical multiple user chat kingdom (fiefdom, lol? :P) than an MMORPG. Some lean so far as to just call it a ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaverse metaverse]'', which isn't that far of a stretch.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Additions ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Referrals ===&lt;br /&gt;
Each user who joins Second Life gets an unique referral link. Giving this link to people who have yet to sign up, and getting them to do so credits the user with a certain amount of Linden Dollars -- the in-world currency.&lt;br /&gt;
* L$1000: Basic account signup completion.&lt;br /&gt;
* L$2000: Premium account signup completion.&lt;br /&gt;
* Note that Joining Second Life now is free, they give you L$350 for starting.&lt;br /&gt;
=== Currency ===&lt;br /&gt;
Speaking of the currency, one can buy or sell their Linden Dollars (L$) via [http://www.gamingopenmarket.com Gaming Open Market]. Exchanges are done in blocks of L$1000, and as of this writing (20 August 2005), are exchanging at roughly USD$3.75. There are some furs who do this with the earnings from their businesses (Custom avatar creation, Generic avatar vending, etc), turning it into profit that allows them to do whatever they feel like, up to, and including starting their own Island(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Islands ===&lt;br /&gt;
Islands are user-owned simulators within Second Life. As of this edit, there are a number of furry-owned or themed Islands in Second Life:&lt;br /&gt;
*Taco&lt;br /&gt;
** Information about ownership here (Arito Cotton, Evangeline Suavage?)&lt;br /&gt;
** This sim has a slightly cartoony feel to it, and is the home of ''Dwellget'', a department store that parodies heavily on Target.&lt;br /&gt;
*Furnation Worlds&lt;br /&gt;
** This is a pair of simulators (Prime and Alpha) run by the crew at Furnation (soon to be Anthronation).&lt;br /&gt;
** These sims have a heavy dose of influence from the Stargate series. Prime's telehub is a gigantic gate build from the series.&lt;br /&gt;
* The Forest, Tiger Creek&lt;br /&gt;
** The Forest was the first Furry oriented island in Second Life. (More info on owners, please. Spade Richlieu?)&lt;br /&gt;
** This sim had an abundance of trees, but was a bit too bare to really own up to its name, if asked by some.&lt;br /&gt;
** This sim suffered from severe lag issues in the beginning, as it was a prime hangout to many furs, which led to the island being full at peak times.&lt;br /&gt;
** In its first months, it earned at least one dwell award (money given to people who rake in the most dwell (''butt hours'') each month by Linden Lab -- The entire island earned one of the awards for January 2005, which offset the first month's island fee by about half in this case).&lt;br /&gt;
** The Forest eventually came under Anshe Chung's ownership. Anshe Chung seems to be a source of teh_dramas to both furries and humans aline in Second Life. Anshe added Tiger Creek as sort of an overflow island. It, too, is furry-themed, and linked to the South side of The Forest.&lt;br /&gt;
** The Forest and Tiger Creek are now part of what many call ''AnsheLand'' (Mostly out of dislike for its owner. Its proper name is actually '''Dreamland'''), a chunk of about 35 to 40 linked islands in the far northwest region of the Grid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:XialLunashine|XialLunashine]] 06:35, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Added, unprotected for further edits. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 06:57, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Second Life updates ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe it can be mentioned that with very few exceptions, when an update for the Second Life client is released, it literally becomes mandatory to upgrade your own client to the new release if you wish to access the SL world. And also, these updates being mandatory can be the most subtle annoyance the game has because they don't give you a choice but to get the new update even if it 'breaks' your ability to connect because of having a card that it suddenly doesn't like anymore. Further discussion, as technical as it is, would relate such compatability breaks as being due to the card not being fully supported in the first place, or possible due to updates in the OpenGL code (which may not be a very likely possability). This means that if a user's client is unable to log in after updating because its hardware detection says your card isn't supported by that version anymore, there are no older versions that can be used which will work on that system. That leaves the user the responsability to gte hardware that is compatible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thoughts? --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 00:14, 14 Sep 2005 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Second Life wikiproject? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Being relatively new to Wikifur, and Wiki-* in general, I am not quite up to snuff on terms and such. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are things called '[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject|Projects]]' that are basically collective efforts at creating/improving certain areas of a wiki. An idea that occurs to me is to start one of these 'wikiprojects', focused on the furry aspects of SL. I'll probably get it started once I get the hang of the relevant areas of Wikicode. Any thoughts on this? [[User:KaloFoxfire|KaloFoxfire]] 21:33, 7 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That sounds like a neat idea. You probably wouldn't be able to get it going on Wikipedia due to their verifiability and (increasingly) notability requirements, but it'd be welcome here. I'm tempted to go over and see the stuff on Second Life for myself, but if you know a lot about it and are willing to organize efforts to write about it, then that would be a great help. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 06:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the comments, [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]. They were very encouraging :). Again, I'm still learning the ways of the Wiki, but I think I've got the hang of enough to [[Wikifur:WikiProject Second Life|get us started]]. Also, I'm probably counting chickens before they hatch, but if word gets spread around the SL furry community, we could be welcoming some new WikiFurries before long. We could draw them in with the idea of writing a few lines about their character or group, and before they know it, BAM, they're hooked. But again, I'm getting ahead of things. [[User:KaloFoxfire|KaloFoxfire]] 15:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::It sounds like a good plan. Why'd you think we're so welcoming of entries to [[:Category:People]]? ;-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I think we already have a house billboard advertisement in Teen SL - if you know of any good ways of getting the word out in the main SL community that would be great. Every bit helps. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::An idea that occurs to me is to put up some paid advertising in the furry areas. One area that appeals to me in particular is the [[FurNation Worlds]] [[Sandbox (Second Life)|Sandbox]]. I have some spare [[Second Life#Currency|$L]] lying around, so I'd be willing to finance the advertising to some extent. I'll look into it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::That would be great - let me know if you need any high-resolution logo imagery or the like, or for that matter if it costs too much; I'm sure I can arrange something. As for the sandbox . . . I was there last night! I was messing around with the creation tools and made a lot of wooden spheres. I ''think'' I managed to delete them all. :-)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I should probably create something like a WikiFur Contributors (Wikifurries?) group, assuming we can get 3 or more people involved. I've got L$249 and it's burning a hole in my pocket (or would if I had one . . .)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::A bit off topic, but I seem to learn how to do something new every time I use the wiki. This time I learned how to link to specific sections in a page (The [[Second Life#Currency|$L]] link). Hooray for knowledge. [[User:KaloFoxfire|KaloFoxfire]] 18:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::It's great, isn't it? Knowledge is power (and even money in some cases, but the power is the important part ;-). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 20:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I was too tempted, and made an account. It's . . . pretty darn neat. Getting towards what [[Wikipedia:Active Worlds|Active Worlds]] could have been. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 10:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::[[Wikipedia:Resistance_is_futile|Resistance is futile]], GreenReaper. [[User:KaloFoxfire|KaloFoxfire]] 15:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I joined SL a while back, and one of the ideas I had was to build an in-world Annex to Wikifur, with direct links, free icons and desktops related to Wikifur, plus buying some ad space on all the mayor Fur locations,... So far, I bought some land for it, but haven't been able to get to it (RL matters,) as for advertisment, Nexxus and Co. are building the new generation ad server which it will be free to advertise on it. ETA: Next week at the earliest. I can keep an eye out when it comes online. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:54, 10 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Have a look at [http://ubrowser.com/ uBrowser] - it's a project by a Linden, with the eventual goal of creating a browser which can be embedded into SL. So when that's finally added in, all you'd have to do is create a browser object and set the home page to WikiFur. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]] 10:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Buying land from Anshe Chung ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm looking at a 1024 sqm block of land in Tiger Creek that I can buy at a reasonable initial price from Anshe. The question is, should I? From what I can see I save $7/month if I buy it from her as I don't need a premium account . . . but I am wary. Are there other options for purchasing (preferably furry-friendly land), and if so, what are the pros and cons? --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 12:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Ansche is a business person first and foremost, and while I don't agree with their motives, they're a highly reputable figure and well known in Second Life. You can attempt to get land space in the FurNation areas for free, but it suffers from a similar reputation the FurNation website -- it can be an incredibly frustrating experience attempting to get assistance if you have a problem or need help. It took them nearly two months to finally process the fact I no longer my land in game.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:From everything I've heard of Ansche, they're on the ball for their virtual marketplace. --[[User:Preyfar|Preyfar]] 12:22, 12 February 2006 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T18:17:56Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg|center|frame| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin, Image by Sunny Colaneri]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Artwork of Cesarin==&lt;br /&gt;
'''Cesarin''' style is mostly [[cutesy]] and [[toony]], his favorites creations are usually [[felines]], [[bunnies]] and whatever [[huggable]] creature he may find cute. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of his pictures are [[inked]], with his personal [[style]], using a [[stylograph]] or fountain pen for inking maps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Wd_dragonassasinforwiki.jpg|center|frame|B &amp;amp; W image by '''Cesarin The White DraGoN''', &amp;quot;Dragon Assasin&amp;quot;.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cassandra_Gunn</id>
		<title>Cassandra Gunn</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cassandra_Gunn"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T18:02:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Ultraviolet''' is a [[character]] created by [[Cassandra Gunn]] back in 1998, and is also the artist's alias.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Evolution==&lt;br /&gt;
Originally the character was a [[feline]] (Russian Blue), with fuschia pink hair and a black tail, accompanied by a musical crystal broom and unicorn-horned raven.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Current Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2000 Ultraviolet was redesigned. Sorceress and sex-vamp, she became a [[Ukimori]], a heraldic unicorn and flying fox (bat) hybrid. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ultraviolet is characterized as having luminous yellow-green eyes and silvery grey fur. Her ears are black and fuchsia on the inside. She has two piercings in each ear, a lip spike and her nose is pink. Her strongest characteristics are her long spiraling, iridescent unicorn horn, massive black wings (with fuchsia flesh on the inside membrane), cloven hooves with black fur tufts around them, and black tail ending in a long purple tuft. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Tastes and Hobbies==&lt;br /&gt;
She's most often associated with gothic, rave, and cyber culture. Primarily she wears black and white stripy tights, goggles, corsets, and long faux fur coats.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Wikilight1.jpg|left|frame|Color image by Ultaviolet's creator, the Ukimori is enjoying the light of a jack-o-lantern.]][[Image:Twilightdance1.jpg|right|thumb|359px|Graphite image by the creator of Ultraviolet.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;clear:both&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Background and Story==&lt;br /&gt;
Created by the human Dr.Hira, Ultraviolet was the first successful [[bat]] and heraldic [[unicorn]] hybrid. Her real given name was Asha Hira, named after the good doctor, but it was her project name, Ultraviolet, that stuck.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Living on the planet of Shi'Imora, and growing up in the Solarian elf village Mikobi-Rhin. it was there with the elves that she grew and learned along side her childhood friend, Rikaru. She grew up to witness the war against man and took to live a life in a ruined [[human]] city cathedral.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The character Ultraviolet seems the most popular amongst the artist's characters.&lt;br /&gt;
More images of the character can be found at various websites, such as [[VCL]], [[FurAffinity]], [[PureYiff]] and others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Wikihope.jpg|center|frame|Older image by Ultaviolet's creator, of her bringing life back to parched earth.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Contributor|Ultraviolet}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Characters]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Hybrid_characters]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T17:55:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Wikipedia:Metre|Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin&lt;br /&gt;
Image by [[Sunny Colaneri]] aka [[Sun]]]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin''' Image by [[Sunny Colaneri]] aka [[Sun]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T09:54:41Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Furry Discovery==&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin&lt;br /&gt;
Image by [[Sunny Colaneri]] aka [[Sun]]]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin''' Image by [[Sunny Colaneri]] aka [[Sun]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>//en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN</id>
		<title>Cesarin The White DraGoN</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Cesarin_The_White_DraGoN"/>
				<updated>2006-03-25T09:51:13Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cesarin: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Cesarin The White DraGoN'''  is, by his description, a &amp;quot;pseudo&amp;quot; artist of [[furry]] Artwork. He lives in [[Wikipedia:Puerta Vallarta, Mexico|Puerto Vallarta, Mexico]].&lt;br /&gt;
He discovered the [[furry]] [[community]] during the end of it's golden age, around the years 1997-1998. He started drawing [[furry]] artwork during the first months of 1999, one of his first 'Victims' was [[Ozone_Griffox]. He continued to improve his artwork over the years, and finally received comission offers.&lt;br /&gt;
Currently he offers his Artwork in diferent websites and inside [[Rabbit Valley]] comic shop.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Details==&lt;br /&gt;
Cesarin is suposed to be clasified as a 'Non anthro' White [[Dragon]]&lt;br /&gt;
currently still undefined in size but ranging from a tall [[Human]]'s size, to 12 [[Meters]] tall with roughtly similar longitude in [[Wing]]-Span.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Character Image==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Cesarinandsun2_censored.jpg| Sun &amp;amp; Cesarin&lt;br /&gt;
Image by [[Sunny Colaneri]] aka [[Sun]]]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cesarin.furtopia.org Cesarin's home page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thewhitedragon/ Cesarin's Furaffinity page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/cesarin/ Cesarin's Y!Gallery page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://cesarin.livejournal.com/profile Whats going on the White Dragon's Cave?] Cesarin's [[LiveJournal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_2899_0_1.html Cesarin's RabbitValley Store]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]][[Category:Mexico]][[Category:1983 births]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cesarin</name></author>	</entry>

	</feed>