WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Slinking Ferret

2011-10-22T01:12:58Z

CchristianTehWazzit: He's dead now.

{{cleanup}}[[Image:SlinkingFerretFursona.jpg|right|thumb|100px|Slinking Ferret.]]
'''Slinking Ferret''' (real name '''Russell Goatley''') was a [[furry]] who lived in [[Wikipedia:Claremore, Oklahoma|Claremore, Oklahoma]], United States. His [[fursona]] is an anthro [[Wikipedia:Black-footed Ferret|Black-footed Ferret]]. Slink, despite pressure from his peers (mainly [[user:cchristiantehwazzit|cchristian]] and [[Jae_Sharp|Jae]]) continues to wear clothing, specifically nurse's-scrubs (though cchristian has stolen these and sometimes gets him to wear a doctor's coat). His usual hangouts are [[wikifur:IRC|#wikifur and #wikifur-social]], #LD4all (at www.ld4all.com), and [[#Furry_Vore]] on [[FurNet (IRC)|Furnet]] (though he dosn't partake in the theme, and just stands there talking instead of eating/being_eaten.

Slinking Ferret died on October 1, 2011. He was 20 years old.

==External links==
* [http://slinking-ferret.livejournal.com/ Slinking Ferret] on [[LiveJournal]]

{{Contributor|Slinking ferret}}
{{person-stub}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Black-footed Ferret characters]]
[[Category:Oklahoma]]

Commander Kitty

2009-08-15T18:36:43Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* The site */ Why has no one updated this?

[[Image:Commander_Kitty.png|right|Commander Kitty]]
'''''Commander Kitty''''' is a [[webcomic]] by [[Scotty Arsenault]], who also created ''[[Heebas]]''.

''Commander Kitty'' is about zany space adventure, from the perspective of [[character]]s who are not themselves entirely sane. Witness your mind turn to quivering mush as they battle with imaginary evil alter egos from another dimension, fending off commercial advertising that would make the [[Wikipedia:Borg|Borg]] tremble, travelling through time leaving a bloody carnage of blatant paradox behind them, discovering the secret artifacts of planet [[Pangolin]], and going shopping for yogurt.

== The site ==
The original [http://www.commanderkitty.com Commander Kitty] was somewhat sporadically active from 2002-2004. After its host server suffered a database corruption, regular updates finally ceased. Work, and personal obligations also contributed to its ending, but Scotty did not abandon the concept, and still produced Commander Kitty artwork from time to time.

The strip resumed on January 4th, 2009. <ref>[http://www.commanderkitty.com/images/ckReturns.jpg The front page for Commander Kitty which announced the return of the comic. ] Retrieved December 31, 2008</ref> The new version restarted the storyline to a point before Commander Kitty and Nin Wah had met, covering them both separately, starting an arc involving a small fluffy sheep fronting some sort of deadly plot involving all the pirates in the galaxy.

== Cast ==

'''The Crew'''
The crew of the Number Six consists of three Cats (Kitty, Mittens and Fluffy), a Ferret (Mr Socks) and a Red Panda (Nin Wah) who Kitty can't seem to get rid of. The ship's computer is a mobile system of robots called MOUSE.
----
; Kitty : Commander Kitty is our antihero. He's our Black Adder... our Arnold Rimmer... our Basil Fawlty. A scheming, cunning, conniving misfit who will never be satisfied until the world sees him as the Greatest Spacer Ever. Kitty insists on everyone calling him 'Commander', even though Mittens is the only one who actually does. (Not out of respect, but out of 'Mittens is such a wiener'.) To CK, image is everything! His dream is to be the suave, daring, roguish daredevil Spacer that everyone admires, and whom gets all the girls. And these petty jobs he keeps getting are hardly worth his effort. When something goes wrong, he blames the equipment. Or the sun was in his eyes. Or it was Mittens' fault.
; Mittens : Mittens was born with a red ensign's uniform on. He's loyal to CK because he thinks he's being taught by the best. Whether out of fear, or out of sheer naivety, Mittens respects CK's authority. Not to say he won't cower and tremble and beg for mercy when he's ordered to sneak into a Mandrill Death Chamber. He is reliable, but doesn't listen very well. He's trusting, but gullible. He wouldn't be anyone's first choice to pilot a Spacer ship, but he's exactly the pilot CK deserves.
; Mr. Socks : Mr Socks is, basically, a parody of TV's Mr Spock. But where Spock was emotionless, Socks is a Ferret with emotion overload! Happy one minute, lazy the next... easily distracted by squeaky things and bright lights. Socks does possess a remarkably inventive mind, and is often at work in his lab, creating magnificent machines and terrifying weapons that may or may not work according to plan, depending on how well CK and/or Mittens follow instructions. Imagine Stephen Hawking with ADHD and you'll probably not be far off.
; Fluffy : The First Officer, she is likely not even aware they are on a space ship. She is known for the audible thud noise that her brain makes when someone asks her a question with two meanings. Simple tasks like making toast can cause her little mind to pop. Yet she often saves the day by her sheer blissful fearlessness and dumb luck.
; MOUSE : MOUSE is the computer operating system for CK's ship. It comes equipped with an interactive robot named MOUSE. MOUSE is a little bastard, though. It delights in tormenting CK and Mittens with its practical jokes, and backtalk. It's programmed to obey orders, but that doesn't mean it has to like it. To make things worse, MOUSE is self replicating, and able to produce five of itself at any time, to aid in ship repairs, or crew support. This would be a pretty handy feature if they didn't just gang up on Mittens all the time. Basically, its main feature is to be a pain in the butt.
; Nin Wah : Nin Wah is a Spacer like CK. She is cheerful, energetic, and optimistic. That doesn't mean she's any more successful than CK, though! She is from the planet Panda Red, and like all of her people, considers the black and white pandas to be the 'lesser' variety. Nin Wah has a cybertronic right arm. If you ask her how she lost it, she'll tell a different sensational story every time!

== Press coverage ==
In an [http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041104/ENTERTAINMENT/111040114 interview] with the Nashua Telegraph Online, Scotty mentioned the following about his strip:
<blockquote>
"'Commander Kitty' is, as most Web comics start out as, a labor of love, and just an outlet for my creativity," Arsenault said in a recent telephone interview. "I don’t remember wanting to do anything else. I always wanted to draw and be creative. The Internet is just a magnificent place for giving people with something to say, a place to say it."

"I created a bunch of characters that really weren’t going anywhere, then I came up with new ones that I could work better with, and out came Commander Kitty, Fluffy, Mittens, Mr. Socks, it just sprang out of that," Arsenault said. "After I put the characters together, I took a vacation in Washington, D.C. I’d take my sketch pad and started making up stories."</blockquote>

==References==
<references />

== External links ==

* [http://www.commanderkitty.com/ Commander Kitty comic strip]
* [http://commanderkitty.blogspot.com/ ''Scotty A'' - Cartoon Blog]
* [http://sully.byethost18.com ''Scotty A'' - Fan site and archive]

[[Category: Comics]]

[[ru:Commander Kitty]]

Mozdoc

2009-07-12T03:53:32Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Three headed from the commisions of it....

'''Mozdoc Alicentaur''' (whose given name is a matter of public record) is a [[male]] [[furry]] whose [[fursona]] is a three headed [[centaur]] with [[unicorn]] horns and a third eye in the middle of each forehead, wings, and, in the "centaurpede" shape, several hundred [[equine]] torsos in a row.<ref>[http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/art/d/r/dreapate/mozdocthelong.jpg.html Depiction of Mozdoc the Centaurpede] by [[Andrea Pate]]</ref> He resides in California, U.S.A.

Mozdoc has assisted as a [[Wikipedia:gofer|gofer]] at [[Further Confusion 2008]], and signed up to gofer at [[Califur 4]], but never participated.<ref>[[Talk:Mozdoc/Archive1#analysis of mozdoc at fc'08|Analysis of Mozdoc at FC 08]] - [[Ayukawataur]] (30 January 2008)</ref> <ref>[[Talk:Mozdoc#fc.2708|Attestations of both Ayukawataur and Mozdoc]]</ref>

==Controversy==
===MUCK bans===

Mozdoc has been involved in several [[MUCK]] controversies, the earliest record of which stems from [[SpinDizzy MUCK]], where he was [[toading|toaded]] in 2000 after breaking into the account of [[Argon Hamilton|Argon]] (another player on the MUCK, and editor of "@Action News", SpinDizzy MUCK's online newspaper). <ref>[http://www.spindizzy.org/newspaper037.htm Player's Account Hacked]</ref>

Later, in 2002, a follow up article concerning Mozdoc was posted in @Action News, written in a satirical style.<ref>[http://www.spindizzynews.org/newspaper101.htm Mozdoc Delights, Amuses Wizards With Inept Demands]</ref> The main thrust of the article stated that Mozdoc's original six-month suspension from the MUCK had been extended to a permanent ban. The article stated that this was due to his attempts to break through his suspension by repeated rapid connections to Spindizzy, and then when this failed by trying to evade the ban with a new character alias '''Myana''' from a different ISP, which succeeded until such time as the wizards detected the fraud. [[Findra]], server [[wizard]] on SpinDizzy, verified these parts of the satirical account as being accurate.<ref>[http://en.wikifur.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMozdoc&diff=162046&oldid=161985 Findra's message on WikiFur]</ref>

Mozdoc was also banned on [[Tapestries]] after attempting to escape the [[stockade]] by [[@toad]]ing himself and re-registering. Following [[WhiteWizard]]'s IP ban, the wizards received an email from Mozdoc containing a repeated expletive.<ref>[http://www.fur.com/tapestries/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=381&S=b69f4f0a49b79f4f0fa9d3acf8e5098f Can somebody please toad my characters?] post on Tapestries Forum by Mozdoc on May 28, 2002.</ref>

He was also banned from [[FurryMUCK]]<ref>http://www.furry.org.au/taurboard/messages/1216.html</ref>, [[Altered Realities]]<ref>[http://en.wikifur.com/index.php?title=User_talk:GreenReaper&diff=prev&oldid=135907 Post to WikiFur from a source claiming to be a Wiz on the Altered Realities MUCK]</ref>, [[Unbridled Desires]]{{fact}}, and [[Meadows MUCK]], the latter after Mozdoc continued to harass the headwizard, an [[administrator]] of [[WikiFur]] under the name [[SpazKitty]], after she banned him on WikiFur.

As of May 2007, Mozdoc has been unbanned from FurryMUCK.

===Kacey Miyagami===

In early 2002, Mozdoc began to distribute [[Kacey Miyagami]]'s artwork without her authorization. Shortly after she protested and her wife, [[Ayukawataur]], stepped in to intervene, Mozdoc escalated his actions to open threats against Kacey's life. Following advice by her family, she filed a [[Wikipedia:Injunction#Temporary restraints|Restraining Order (TRO)]] in November of 2002. This injunction lasted from the date of filing until November 17, 2005.<ref>[http://www.furbid.ws/images/administaur/restrain.pdf Copy of public temporary restraining order]</ref>

Both Kacey and Noriko were named as protected parties on the TRO. This prohibited Mozdoc from having any contact with Ayukawataur and he was banned from [[FurBid]] as Noriko believed him using her system would inevitably result in contact. When the TRO expired in November of 2005, Ayukawataur reviewed his constant attempts to covertly use the system. She decided at that time to not restore his access. He was unbanned in September 2007, but re-banned a month and a half later.<ref>[http://ayukawataur.livejournal.com/59999.html mr. mozdoc] - {{lj-user|Ayukawatur}} (September 23, 2007)</ref><ref>[http://ayukawataur.livejournal.com/64078.html mozdoc reloaded] - {{lj-user|Ayukawatur}} (November 13, 2007)</ref> At this time there is no projected date to review his status.

[[Image:Mozdoc_fa.PNG|right|thumb|233px|FurAffinity "Hate Manifesto"]]
Mozdoc resumed his harassment, including death threats, after posting a manifesto on why he hates her on his user account at [[Fur Affinity]] in a journal entry dated October 14, 2006 <ref>http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mozdoc</ref>, and placing a disparaging comment under one of Kacey's artworks, "Farewell to Earth", a fifth-generation commission to [[Bernard Doove]]<ref>http://www.furaffinity.net/full/95170/</ref>. He was banned from the site the next day by Fur Affinity administration. [[Dragoneer]] stated in May 2008 that Mozdoc was "permanently banned from Fur Affinity and all of its services. That ban will not be lifted."<ref>[http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=19666 Re: Unban Me From FurAffinity And Start Answering My Messages]. May 13, 2008 post by [[Dragoneer]] to Fur Affinity forums. Retrieved July 8, 2008.</ref>

Mozdoc continued his anti-Kacey harassment in other forums,<ref>[http://www.furbid.ws/messageboard2/ his older posts on furbid]</ref><ref>[http://adorna.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=96118 post on epilogue]</ref><ref>[http://www.furbid.ws/images/administaur/The_Desktoop_by_Mozdoc.jpg the first] and [http://www.furbid.ws/images/administaur/FUCK_YOU_DEVIANTART_by_Mozdoc.jpg the second] both named exactly as were uploaded</ref> including [[Bernard Doove]]'s LiveJournal.<ref>January 4, 2007 anonymous comments, signed Mozdoc, in [http://goldfur.livejournal.com/50106.html Happy New Year!] LiveJournal post. Retrieved July 8, 2008.</ref>

This harassment continued in person again at [[Further Confusion 2007]]. He was removed from the [[convention]] by con authorities for harassment after multiple warnings, and for attempting to take covert photographs of Kacey's print display books. He was allegedly removed from the grounds later that evening by hotel authorities for being in con areas without a con membership.{{fact}} [[Anthropomorphic Arts and Education|AAE]] has officially declined to comment on the issue.

== References ==
<references />

== External links ==
{{Contributor}}
* [http://mozdoc.livejournal.com Mozdoc] on [[LiveJournal]] (banned)
* [http://mzdc.livejournal.com Mzdc] on LiveJournal (banned)
* [http://anotherfurry.livejournal.com AnotherFurry] on LiveJournal (banned)
* [http://mozdoc.deviantart.com/ Mozdoc] on [[deviantART]] (banned)
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mozdoc Mozdoc] on [[Fur Affinity]] (banned)
* [http://mozdocalicentaur.deviantart.com/ mozdocalicentaur] on [[deviantART]] (banned)
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]
[[Category:California]]

Tania Walker

2009-06-29T19:15:35Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

[[Image:Tanipus.gif|right|thumb|Tania Walker as her fursona]]
'''Tania Walker''' is an animator and [[furry art]]ist who hails from [[Brisbane]], Queensland, Australia. An ex-[[Disney]] [[Wikipedia:Tweening|inbetweener]] (an [[animator assistant]] who draws the frames in between "key frames" drawn by the lead animators,) she currently works as a product/toy designer for a merchandising company.

Until recently, she lived with [[Robbie]], who she recently broke up with, [[Victoria Eden]] at the furry house, [[The Asylum|the Asylum]]. Vicki and Tania produce a fortnightly webcomic called ''[[Crikey Duck!]]''. Tania is noted for her ongoing campaign to bring [[anthropomorphic]] [[duck]]s back into the eye of the fandom, or as she puts it, ''"[[Wikipedia:Carl Barks|Carl Barksify]] the joint"''.

Her art is Disney-influenced, but carries unique stylisations of her own. She aims to mix a smooth, flowing line with a degree of energetic angularity.

She can be found online as '''Animator''' on [[DeviantArt]], or as '''Ailurophile''' on [[LiveJournal]], where she puts in her maximum procrastination hours.

== Fursona ==

Tania doesn't have a [[fursona]] per se, but for the purposes of her appearances in her own comic, she's a short and noisy little [[platypus]].

== Filmography ==

* [[Wikipedia:Jambalaya Studio|Jambalaya Studio]]/[[Wikipedia:Liquid Television|Liquid Television]]
** 2001 - [[Wikipedia:The Proud Family|The Proud Family]] (inbetween/cleanup artist)

* [http://www.cuttingedge.com.au/ Cutting Edge VFX]
** 2002 - [[Wikipedia:George of the Jungle 2|George of the Jungle 2]] (inbetween artist)

* [[Wikipedia:Walt Disney Animation Australia|Walt Disney Animation Australia]]
** 2004 - [[Wikipedia:The Lion King 1.5|The Lion King 1.5]] (inbetween artist, [[Timon (character)|Timon]] team)
** 2004 - [[Wikipedia:Mickey, Donald, Goofy: The Three Musketeers|Mickey, Donald, Goofy: The Three Musketeers]] (inbetween artist, [[Donald Duck]] team)

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Ailurophile}}
* [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2107525/ Tania Walker] on [[Wikipedia:IMDb|IMDB]]
* [http://ailurophile.livejournal.com Ailurophile] on LiveJournal
* [http://www.taniawalker.com/portfolio.html Taniawalker.com] - Tania Walker's online portfolio
* [http://www.furtales.com Furtales.com] - Tania Walke and Victoria Eden's showcase page
* ''[http://www.crikeyduck.com Crikey Duck!]'' official web page
* [http://animator.deviantart.com Animator] on DeviantArt
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Tania-Walker/ Tania Walker] on [[VCL]]
* [http://www.elfwood.com/art/t/a/tania/tania.html Tania Walker] on [[Elfwood]]
* [http://epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/list.pl?gallery=3041 Tania Walker] on [[Epilogue.net]]
* [http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/t/tania/ Tania Walker] on [[Absolutearts.com]]
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Artists]]
[[Category:Writers]]
[[Category:Animators]]
[[Category:Queensland]]
[[Category:1982 births]]

User:Sakana Katana

2009-05-11T02:14:07Z

CchristianTehWazzit: possibly...

{{User Funday PawPet Show}}

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{{User_FursuitTV}}

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{{User PA Pets Show}}
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Template:User FursuitTV

2009-05-11T02:08:50Z

CchristianTehWazzit: trying that...

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User talk:Xeans

2009-02-14T23:14:53Z

CchristianTehWazzit: >!>;;

Welcome to [[WikiFur]]! Thank you for registering an account. We here at [[WikiFur]] look forward to working with you. [[Forum:Help desk|Let us know]] if you need any [[Help:Contents|help]] not already provided. If you would like help creating an article or just editing it, don't hesitate to consult the [[Help:Furry Book of Style|Furry Book of Style]] or just contact an [[WikiFur:Administrator|administrator]]. Have a nice day! :-) [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 00:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

== Hello ==

I'm still new to all of this furry fandom and you may have seen my posts on the forum. I just want to thank you for having this accepting atmoshpere. If everyones realization was as overwelming as mine we all need a place to talk [[User:Xeans|Xeans]] 22:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

:Hopefully you'll find that acceptance is a part of the furry community elsewhere as well. Welcome aboard! :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

== Therian/Otherkin stuff ==

Hi. I came across your forum post on Google. If you're still interested in the subject, you should take a look at [[w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]], and send me a message there. If not, go ahead and ignore this. {{w:c:therian:SUBST:cchristian was here}}

User talk:Xeans

2009-02-14T23:14:00Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

User talk:Xeans

2009-02-14T23:13:29Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Forgot to sign

User talk:Xeans

2009-02-14T23:13:04Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Therian/Otherkin stuff */ new section

Werelist

2008-01-03T21:35:55Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

[[image:TWBanner.jpg|right|300px]]
[[image:TWLogo.gif|right]]
'''The Werelist''' is an online directory created to help members of the [[therianthrope]] community meet and communicate with others in the community. It is one of the largest and thusly more popular resources for therians online.

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://www.werelist.com/
** '''Forum''': http://www.werelist.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28
** '''Wiki''': http://www.werelist.com/index.php?option=com_openwiki&Itemid=31
* '''Founder''': [[w:c:therian:Coyote (person)|Coyote]] (involvement ended in late 2007)
* '''Administrators''': ''Interim only at present time''
* '''Ran from/to: ? - present

== The Werelist and furry ==

Generally, [[furries]] are well accepted on the site, as well as [[Otherkin]] and other non-therians. As long as people accept the views of others, they are allowed to stay and mingle.

== Resources and rules ==

A contact directory is provided that makes it easier for weres to meet others and participate in the community, as well as a common ground for the therianthrope community to interact, as well as a central clearinghouse for reliable information about therianthropy. Other resources include:

* The Howl Resource, for announcing real-life gatherings and get-togethers for the community
* An informational resource, providing FAQs, essays, news and terminology
* A clearinghouse for news and announcements of interest to the Community
* Links to other resources of interest to the community, which may provide further resources and information.
* A Google maps map, showing the locations of all the members who have given them.



== Controversy ==


Werelist has been accused of being "''imperialistic''", or stepping on the views of therians who the administrators do not agree with. This is a very weak claim, as the only time people are banned from the site, is when they either attack other people, or act in an overly uncivil manner (or "troll").

Werelist has further been accused of being overly-critical of less-accepted ideas (such as P-Shifting). This is somewhat true, as the members are generally more moderate in their beliefs, and do not believe things they aren't familiar with. What is not true, is the accusation that people are banned simply because they hold less-accepted opinions.

[[Category:Websites|Werelist, The]]

Werelist

2008-01-03T21:34:04Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Coyote and wiki

[[image:TWBanner.jpg|right|300px]]
[[image:TWLogo.gif|right]]
'''The Werelist''' is an online directory created to help members of the [[therianthrope]] community meet and communicate with others in the community. It is one of the largest and thusly more popular resources for therians online.

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://www.werelist.com/
** '''Forum''': http://www.werelist.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28
** '''Wiki''': http://www.werelist.com/index.php?option=com_openwiki&Itemid=31
* '''Founder''': [[w:c:therian:Coyote (person)|Coyote]] (involvement ended in late 2007)
* '''Administrators''': ''Interim only at present time''
* '''Ran from/to: ? - present

== The Werelist and furry ==w

Generally, [[furries]] are well accepted on the site, as well as [[Otherkin]] and other non-therians. As long as people accept the views of others, they are allowed to stay and mingle.

== Resources and rules ==

A contact directory is provided that makes it easier for weres to meet others and participate in the community, as well as a common ground for the therianthrope community to interact, as well as a central clearinghouse for reliable information about therianthropy. Other resources include:

* The Howl Resource, for announcing real-life gatherings and get-togethers for the community
* An informational resource, providing FAQs, essays, news and terminology
* A clearinghouse for news and announcements of interest to the Community
* Links to other resources of interest to the community, which may provide further resources and information.
* A Google maps map, showing the locations of all the members who have given them.



== Controversy ==


Werelist has been accused of being "''imperialistic''", or stepping on the views of therians who the administrators do not agree with. This is a very weak claim, as the only time people are banned from the site, is when they either attack other people, or act in an overly uncivil manner (or "troll").

Werelist has further been accused of being overly-critical of less-accepted ideas (such as P-Shifting). This is somewhat true, as the members are generally more moderate in their beliefs, and do not believe things they aren't familiar with. What is not true, is the accusation that people are banned simply because they hold less-accepted opinions.

[[Category:Websites|Werelist, The]]

Werelist

2008-01-03T21:12:01Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

[[image:TWBanner.jpg|right|300px]]
[[image:TWLogo.gif|right]]
'''The Werelist''' is an online directory created to help members of the [[therianthrope]] community meet and communicate with others in the community. It is one of the largest and thusly more popular resources for therians online.

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://www.werelist.com/
** '''Forum''': http://www.werelist.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28
** '''Wiki''': http://www.werelist.com/?q=vocabmenu/vocab/26
* '''Founder''': [[Coyote (person)|Coyote]] (involvement ended in late 2007)
* '''Administrators''': ''Interim only at present time''
* '''Ran from/to: ? - present

== The Werelist and furry ==

Generally, [[furries]] are well accepted on the site, as well as [[Otherkin]] and other non-therians. As long as people accept the views of others, they are allowed to stay and mingle.

== Resources and rules ==

A contact directory is provided that makes it easier for weres to meet others and participate in the community, as well as a common ground for the therianthrope community to interact, as well as a central clearinghouse for reliable information about therianthropy. Other resources include:

* The Howl Resource, for announcing real-life gatherings and get-togethers for the community
* An informational resource, providing FAQs, essays, news and terminology
* A clearinghouse for news and announcements of interest to the Community
* Links to other resources of interest to the community, which may provide further resources and information.
* A Google maps map, showing the locations of all the members who have given them.



== Controversy ==


Werelist has been accused of being "''imperialistic''", or stepping on the views of therians who the administrators do not agree with. This is a very weak claim, as the only time people are banned from the site, is when they either attack other people, or act in an overly uncivil manner (or "troll").

Werelist has further been accused of being overly-critical of less-accepted ideas (such as P-Shifting). This is somewhat true, as the members are generally more moderate in their beliefs, and do not believe things they aren't familiar with. What is not true, is the accusation that people are banned simply because they hold less-accepted opinions.

[[Category:Websites|Werelist, The]]

Werelist

2008-01-03T21:05:42Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Werelist is completely different.

[[image:TWBanner.jpg|right|300px]]
[[image:TWLogo.gif|right]]
'''The Werelist''' is an online directory created to help members of the [[therianthrope]] community meet and communicate with others in the community. It is one of the largest and thusly more popular resources for therians online.

* '''Addresses''':
** '''Website''': http://www.werelist.com/
** '''Forum''': http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/
** '''IRC''': irc://irc.freenode.net/therian on [[Freenode]]
** '''Wiki''': http://www.werelist.com/?q=vocabmenu/vocab/26
* '''Founder''': [[Coyote (person)|Coyote]]
* '''Administrators''': [[Jakkal]], [[Savage]]
* '''Ran from/to: ? - present

== The Werelist and furry ==

Generally, [[furries]] are well accepted on the site, as well as [[Otherkin]] and other non-therians. As long as people accept the views of others, they are allowed to stay and mingle.

== Resources and rules ==

A contact directory is provided that makes it easier for weres to meet others and participate in the community, as well as a common ground for the therianthrope community to interact, as well as a central clearinghouse for reliable information about therianthropy. Other resources include:

* The Howl Resource, for announcing real-life gatherings and get-togethers for the community
* An informational resource, providing FAQs, essays, news and terminology
* A clearinghouse for news and announcements of interest to the Community
* Links to other resources of interest to the community, which may provide further resources and information.
* A Google maps map, showing the locations of all the members who have given them.



== Controversy ==

Werelist has been accused of linking to adult content, including an Adult Furry [[BBS]], but the admins do not permit such links on a board that is supposed to be for the serious discussion of therianthropy. There are no links to any adult content allowed in the public areas, and links to explicitly pornographic content are not encouraged even in the "adult" areas.

The "adult discussion" areas, as are noted under their description, are for serious talk about issues that adults face in life, and are specifically not for the posting of X-rated material. A typical thread from the "adult discussion" area might involve raising children or changing careers.

Werelist has also been accused of being "''imperialistic''", or stepping on the views of therians who the administrators do not agree with. This is a very weak claim, as the only time people are banned from the site, is when they either attack other people, or act in an overly uncivil manner (or "troll").

Werelist has further been accused of being overly-critical of less-accepted ideas (such as P-Shifting). This is somewhat true, as the members are generally more moderate in their beliefs, and do not believe things they aren't familiar with. What is not true, is the accusation that people are banned simply because they hold less-accepted opinions.

[[Category:Websites|Werelist, The]]

Therianthropy

2007-07-23T22:25:55Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Therianthropy and furry */

[[Image:TigerHologram.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hologram of a [[human]] combined with a picture of a [[tiger]] at the [[Wikipedia:MIT Museum|MIT Museum]]]]
'''Therianthropy,''' derived from the Greek '''''therion''''' (Θηριον, meaning "beast,") and '''''anthrōpos''''' (ανθρωπος, meaning "human,") refers to beings that are partly human and partly animal. It has often been used to describe depictions of mythological creatures and deities, and so has taken on a specialized meaning. Sometimes shortened to "therian," it is often used to describe members of a spiritually oriented subculture.

[[Therian]]s believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to an animal (or animals). Most believe that mental and emotional shifts can occur as a result; a controversial minority extend this to the physical world.

Therianthropy is sometimes viewed as a spiritual counterpart to [[furry fandom]], which is concerned more with imagination than belief. Some [[furries]] view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while some therians view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals. However, relations are usually friendly, and therians can often be found at furry [[convention]]s and other social [[:Category:Events|events]].

== Modern subcultural use of the term ==

=== Beliefs and origins ===
Therianthropy can trace its origins back as far as early mythology, but in the modern times, gained popularity in the [[Wikipedia:Dark Ages|Dark Ages]] with the legend of the werewolf(someone with a particularly active and powerful phylgia[fylgia], or Fetch). Originally, werewolves were highly respected members of the community and regarded by the Christian Church as "Dogs of God", before becoming popularized as the bloodthirsty monsters known today.

In recent times, a [[Wikipedia:Subculture|subculture]] has developed that has adopted the word ''therianthropy'' to describe a sense of intense [[furry spirituality|spiritual]] or psychological identification with a non-human animal. Members of this subculture typically refer to themselves as ''therianthropes'' or ''therians''. The word ''[[were]]'' was also common at one point, in reference to shapeshifting creatures of legend such as [[Werewolf|werewolves]], weretigers and the like, but is less common these days. One reason for the waning use of the term "were" is its growing use in the furry community to mean a more "bestial" style furry. This can be the cause of quite a few more misunderstandings between the therian and furry communities.

The [[Usenet]] group [[alt.horror.werewolves]] was founded in 1992, and in its earliest days the members discussed fictional [[shapeshifting|shapeshifters]]. Some posters began to publicly claim that they considered themselves to be partially non-human animal. A number of these people were only joking, but enough people were serious about it that it became a trend. Others who professed the same beliefs soon joined the group. The earliest therians called themselves ''lycanthropes'', but as that word more accurately describes wolf-people, ''therianthropes'' was chosen as a more inclusive term.

Those within this subculture who identify with a spiritual understanding of this phenomenon may believe that they have the spirit or soul, in whole or in part, of a non-human animal, and their beliefs often overlap to some extent with aspects of [[Wikipedia:Shamanism|shamanism]] or [[animal totem|totemism]]. Some also draw inspiration from stories of shapeshifting in [[Wikipedia:Celtic mythology|Celtic]], [[Wikipedia:Norse mythology|Norse]] and [[Wikipedia:Native American mythology|Native American]] myths, among others. The term ''spiritual therianthropy'' is often used to differentiate this definition of therianthropy from others. However, shamanism and totemism are not an intrinsic part of therianthropy.

Those who prefer a psychological explanation may simply describe it as having a non-human animal side to their personality or nature, with some believing that it may be due to some sort of unusual [[wikipedia:Neurophysiology|neurophysiology]], as is thought to be the case with syndromes like attention deficit disorder and autism. Others believe that their genes are partially non-human, but this explanation is unproven, scientifically implausible, and not favored by many. Most of those who support the explanation of atypical neuropsychology, however, do not appear to regard it as innately dysfunctional.

In either case, the identification with the non-human animal may be partial, as in those who regard themselves as having both human and non-human attributes, or complete, as in those who regard themselves as essentially non-human animals in human bodies. The terms ''species dysphoria'' and ''transspeciesism'' have occasionally been used to refer to the latter phenomenon, in parallel with the concepts of gender dysphoria and [[Wikipedia:Transsexuality|transsexuality]].

Most therians identify with a single type of non-human animal, but there are some who identify with more than one — sometimes related animals, as in several different species of [[feline]] or [[canine]], for example, but sometimes completely dissimilar animals. Those who identify with all members of one family — for instance, someone who claims to have characteristics of all felines — is called a ''cladotherianthrope''. The species of non-human animal with which a particular therian identifies is sometimes referred to as that person's ''theriotype'' or ''[[phenotype]]''. The term phenotype was originally more common but has fallen into disuse because it also refers to physical appearance.

The majority of therianthropes identify as [[feline]] or [[canine]], often big cats and wolves<ref>[http://archive.werelist.com/modules.php?name=Demographics&op=show_statistics&showpage=pheno1 Species survey by the Werelist]</ref>, but there are also [[reptile]]s, [[bird|avians]], other mammals, and [[insects]]. Some skeptics argue that, because of the preponderance of large carnivores, most therians are only faking and are purposefully choosing impressive animals for ego-based purposes. There are also some individuals who identify with mythical species (e.g. [[dragon]]s, [[Wikipedia:Elf|elves]], [[gryphon]]s, [[centaur]]s and so forth), but they are usually categorized in the broader [[otherkin]] community rather than as therians.

Therianthropes may describe their nature as manifesting in terms of their cognitive processes, their outlook on life, their inner reactions and [[Wikipedia:Instinct|instinct]]s, their senses, or through their physical body, though claims of actual physical variations from the norm tend to be regarded with skepticism both within and outside the subculture. The human and non-human aspects of the self may cooperate or conflict, leading to happiness or unhappy dysfunction, and may take much self-discovery to begin to understand or accept. Because this is a personal perception of self, the ways in which a person describes his or her self-identification as a therianthrope vary considerably.

A controversial aspect of therianthropy is the subject of ''shifting'' (a shortened word for shapeshifting), which generally refers to any manner by which a therianthrope's nature may become evidenced internally (to themselves) or externally to others. Few people within the subculture doubt that shifts of mental and emotional perception may occur; some therianthropes also claim to experience a physical change to their appearance, an event known as ''physical shifting'' (or ''P-shifting''). Many in the therianthrope subculture doubt that physical changes actually occur; the overwhelming majority of those outside of the culture completely deny that any real physical shifting can occur.

Some of the rationally minded, skeptical therianthropes suggest that their therianthropy may be a mental or psychological condition, possibly with a spiritual or religious component. Advocates of this viewpoint can be found on the forums at Werelist.com (see below).

=== Subculture ===

Therianthropy as a subculture does not have any central dogma or tenets, nor any recognized authority. Those who have been around for a long time are generally listened to, though less out of any perceived spiritual authority than simple acknowledgment of experience. The word [[greymuzzle]] is often used tongue-in-cheek to describe these people.

While there is no offline social organization, there exists a [[:Category:Community|community]] of therians with many diverse outlooks on the concept, including [[Christian fur|Christian]]s, [[Wikipedia:Pagan|Pagan]]s, and [[Wikipedia:Atheism|atheist]]s. As could be expected, disagreements are frequent, and the many online [[forum]]s and [[:Category:Chat rooms|chat rooms]] of the community each have their own "atmosphere," ranging from total acceptance to scornful cynicism. There have been intermittent "real-world" gatherings, referred to as ''howls'', but their purpose is primarily social.

==== Therianthropy vs. Species Dysphoria ====
Therianthropy is closely related to species dysphoria, a condition similar to [[Wikipedia:Gender_Dysphoria|gender dysphoria]] in which the person has the body of a human, but the identity of an animal. Many Therians admit to having at least mild Species Dysphoria, and today, many therians believe that species dysphoria is simply another "symptom" of therianthropy.

==== Therianthropy vs. clinical lycanthropy ====
Spiritual therianthropy is not automatically the same as clinical lycanthropy, a mental illness in which an individual believes he or she belongs to or can change to another [[species]]. While some therianthropes believe they can take on the mindset of their "other side" in what is referred to as a ''mental shift'', they believe that they retain control during these transformations and are no greater danger to themselves or others. The term ''contherianthropes'' is sometimes used for those who do not claim to mentally shift but believe they have human and non-human sides which are mixed up into a single unchanging whole.

==== Therianthropy and furry ====
Therianthropy should not be confused with the [[furry fandom]], and mistaking them for one another can cause offense to many therians, though some intermixing of the groups does occur. Therianthropes tend to be more focused on the sense of an animal within, an animal side to their nature, or spiritual concepts; by contrast, [[furry|furries]] are more commonly focused on furry [[art]] and/or [[role-playing]] related to [[anthropomorphic]] non-humans. There is some overlap with those who identify themselves with each group or view the other positively, as well as those in each group who view the other negatively. For instance, some furries view therianthropy as "taking it too far," or may think of therians as being just plain weird. At the same time, many therians dislike furries because of their pervceived lack of understanding of therianthropy itself, which can lead to confusion, or because they perceive the fandom as being primarily sexual.

==== Therianthropy and Shamanism ====
Therianthropy and shamanism have a great deal in common at the basic level. Many therians believe in Shamanic and mystic ideas. Many who practice shamanism hold an interest in therianthropy. Many Therianthropes claim to have spirit guides, or [[Totem]]s.

== See also ==

* [[Lifestylers]]
* [[Otherkin]]
* [[Therian]]
* [[Were]]
* [[Werewolf]]
* [[Wikipedia:Therianthropy|Therianthropy]] on Wikipedia

==References==
<references />

==External links==

* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist]
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therianthropy Wiki]
* [http://dreamofhorn.com/therian The WereLibrary]
* [[:w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]]

[[Category: Terms]]
{{Wikipedia|Therianthropy}}
{{featured article}}

Therianthropy

2007-07-23T22:22:21Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Beliefs and origins */

[[Image:TigerHologram.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hologram of a [[human]] combined with a picture of a [[tiger]] at the [[Wikipedia:MIT Museum|MIT Museum]]]]
'''Therianthropy,''' derived from the Greek '''''therion''''' (Θηριον, meaning "beast,") and '''''anthrōpos''''' (ανθρωπος, meaning "human,") refers to beings that are partly human and partly animal. It has often been used to describe depictions of mythological creatures and deities, and so has taken on a specialized meaning. Sometimes shortened to "therian," it is often used to describe members of a spiritually oriented subculture.

[[Therian]]s believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to an animal (or animals). Most believe that mental and emotional shifts can occur as a result; a controversial minority extend this to the physical world.

Therianthropy is sometimes viewed as a spiritual counterpart to [[furry fandom]], which is concerned more with imagination than belief. Some [[furries]] view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while some therians view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals. However, relations are usually friendly, and therians can often be found at furry [[convention]]s and other social [[:Category:Events|events]].

== Modern subcultural use of the term ==

=== Beliefs and origins ===
Therianthropy can trace its origins back as far as early mythology, but in the modern times, gained popularity in the [[Wikipedia:Dark Ages|Dark Ages]] with the legend of the werewolf(someone with a particularly active and powerful phylgia[fylgia], or Fetch). Originally, werewolves were highly respected members of the community and regarded by the Christian Church as "Dogs of God", before becoming popularized as the bloodthirsty monsters known today.

In recent times, a [[Wikipedia:Subculture|subculture]] has developed that has adopted the word ''therianthropy'' to describe a sense of intense [[furry spirituality|spiritual]] or psychological identification with a non-human animal. Members of this subculture typically refer to themselves as ''therianthropes'' or ''therians''. The word ''[[were]]'' was also common at one point, in reference to shapeshifting creatures of legend such as [[Werewolf|werewolves]], weretigers and the like, but is less common these days. One reason for the waning use of the term "were" is its growing use in the furry community to mean a more "bestial" style furry. This can be the cause of quite a few more misunderstandings between the therian and furry communities.

The [[Usenet]] group [[alt.horror.werewolves]] was founded in 1992, and in its earliest days the members discussed fictional [[shapeshifting|shapeshifters]]. Some posters began to publicly claim that they considered themselves to be partially non-human animal. A number of these people were only joking, but enough people were serious about it that it became a trend. Others who professed the same beliefs soon joined the group. The earliest therians called themselves ''lycanthropes'', but as that word more accurately describes wolf-people, ''therianthropes'' was chosen as a more inclusive term.

Those within this subculture who identify with a spiritual understanding of this phenomenon may believe that they have the spirit or soul, in whole or in part, of a non-human animal, and their beliefs often overlap to some extent with aspects of [[Wikipedia:Shamanism|shamanism]] or [[animal totem|totemism]]. Some also draw inspiration from stories of shapeshifting in [[Wikipedia:Celtic mythology|Celtic]], [[Wikipedia:Norse mythology|Norse]] and [[Wikipedia:Native American mythology|Native American]] myths, among others. The term ''spiritual therianthropy'' is often used to differentiate this definition of therianthropy from others. However, shamanism and totemism are not an intrinsic part of therianthropy.

Those who prefer a psychological explanation may simply describe it as having a non-human animal side to their personality or nature, with some believing that it may be due to some sort of unusual [[wikipedia:Neurophysiology|neurophysiology]], as is thought to be the case with syndromes like attention deficit disorder and autism. Others believe that their genes are partially non-human, but this explanation is unproven, scientifically implausible, and not favored by many. Most of those who support the explanation of atypical neuropsychology, however, do not appear to regard it as innately dysfunctional.

In either case, the identification with the non-human animal may be partial, as in those who regard themselves as having both human and non-human attributes, or complete, as in those who regard themselves as essentially non-human animals in human bodies. The terms ''species dysphoria'' and ''transspeciesism'' have occasionally been used to refer to the latter phenomenon, in parallel with the concepts of gender dysphoria and [[Wikipedia:Transsexuality|transsexuality]].

Most therians identify with a single type of non-human animal, but there are some who identify with more than one — sometimes related animals, as in several different species of [[feline]] or [[canine]], for example, but sometimes completely dissimilar animals. Those who identify with all members of one family — for instance, someone who claims to have characteristics of all felines — is called a ''cladotherianthrope''. The species of non-human animal with which a particular therian identifies is sometimes referred to as that person's ''theriotype'' or ''[[phenotype]]''. The term phenotype was originally more common but has fallen into disuse because it also refers to physical appearance.

The majority of therianthropes identify as [[feline]] or [[canine]], often big cats and wolves<ref>[http://archive.werelist.com/modules.php?name=Demographics&op=show_statistics&showpage=pheno1 Species survey by the Werelist]</ref>, but there are also [[reptile]]s, [[bird|avians]], other mammals, and [[insects]]. Some skeptics argue that, because of the preponderance of large carnivores, most therians are only faking and are purposefully choosing impressive animals for ego-based purposes. There are also some individuals who identify with mythical species (e.g. [[dragon]]s, [[Wikipedia:Elf|elves]], [[gryphon]]s, [[centaur]]s and so forth), but they are usually categorized in the broader [[otherkin]] community rather than as therians.

Therianthropes may describe their nature as manifesting in terms of their cognitive processes, their outlook on life, their inner reactions and [[Wikipedia:Instinct|instinct]]s, their senses, or through their physical body, though claims of actual physical variations from the norm tend to be regarded with skepticism both within and outside the subculture. The human and non-human aspects of the self may cooperate or conflict, leading to happiness or unhappy dysfunction, and may take much self-discovery to begin to understand or accept. Because this is a personal perception of self, the ways in which a person describes his or her self-identification as a therianthrope vary considerably.

A controversial aspect of therianthropy is the subject of ''shifting'' (a shortened word for shapeshifting), which generally refers to any manner by which a therianthrope's nature may become evidenced internally (to themselves) or externally to others. Few people within the subculture doubt that shifts of mental and emotional perception may occur; some therianthropes also claim to experience a physical change to their appearance, an event known as ''physical shifting'' (or ''P-shifting''). Many in the therianthrope subculture doubt that physical changes actually occur; the overwhelming majority of those outside of the culture completely deny that any real physical shifting can occur.

Some of the rationally minded, skeptical therianthropes suggest that their therianthropy may be a mental or psychological condition, possibly with a spiritual or religious component. Advocates of this viewpoint can be found on the forums at Werelist.com (see below).

=== Subculture ===

Therianthropy as a subculture does not have any central dogma or tenets, nor any recognized authority. Those who have been around for a long time are generally listened to, though less out of any perceived spiritual authority than simple acknowledgment of experience. The word [[greymuzzle]] is often used tongue-in-cheek to describe these people.

While there is no offline social organization, there exists a [[:Category:Community|community]] of therians with many diverse outlooks on the concept, including [[Christian fur|Christian]]s, [[Wikipedia:Pagan|Pagan]]s, and [[Wikipedia:Atheism|atheist]]s. As could be expected, disagreements are frequent, and the many online [[forum]]s and [[:Category:Chat rooms|chat rooms]] of the community each have their own "atmosphere," ranging from total acceptance to scornful cynicism. There have been intermittent "real-world" gatherings, referred to as ''howls'', but their purpose is primarily social.

==== Therianthropy vs. Species Dysphoria ====
Therianthropy is closely related to species dysphoria, a condition similar to [[Wikipedia:Gender_Dysphoria|gender dysphoria]] in which the person has the body of a human, but the identity of an animal. Many Therians admit to having at least mild Species Dysphoria, and today, many therians believe that species dysphoria is simply another "symptom" of therianthropy.

==== Therianthropy vs. clinical lycanthropy ====
Spiritual therianthropy is not automatically the same as clinical lycanthropy, a mental illness in which an individual believes he or she belongs to or can change to another [[species]]. While some therianthropes believe they can take on the mindset of their "other side" in what is referred to as a ''mental shift'', they believe that they retain control during these transformations and are no greater danger to themselves or others. The term ''contherianthropes'' is sometimes used for those who do not claim to mentally shift but believe they have human and non-human sides which are mixed up into a single unchanging whole.

==== Therianthropy and furry ====
Therianthropy should not be confused with the [[furry fandom]], though some intermixing of the groups does occur. Therianthropes tend to be more focused on the sense of an animal within, an animal side to their nature, or spiritual concepts; by contrast, [[furry|furries]] are more commonly focused on furry [[art]] and/or [[role-playing]] related to [[anthropomorphic]] non-humans. There is some overlap with those who identify themselves with each group or view the other positively, as well as those in each group who view the other negatively. For instance, some furries view therianthropy as "taking it too far," or may think of therians as being just plain weird. At the same time, many therians dislike furries because of their pervceived lack of understanding of therianthropy itself, which can lead to confusion, or because they perceive the fandom as being primarily sexual.

==== Therianthropy and Shamanism ====
Therianthropy and shamanism have a great deal in common at the basic level. Many therians believe in Shamanic and mystic ideas. Many who practice shamanism hold an interest in therianthropy. Many Therianthropes claim to have spirit guides, or [[Totem]]s.

== See also ==

* [[Lifestylers]]
* [[Otherkin]]
* [[Therian]]
* [[Were]]
* [[Werewolf]]
* [[Wikipedia:Therianthropy|Therianthropy]] on Wikipedia

==References==
<references />

==External links==

* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist]
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therianthropy Wiki]
* [http://dreamofhorn.com/therian The WereLibrary]
* [[:w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]]

[[Category: Terms]]
{{Wikipedia|Therianthropy}}
{{featured article}}

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-07-22T16:23:29Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Misuse of the Term Therianthropy */

{{Featured}}
----
Is it just me, or do Therians have a huge fucking ego at times? --[[User:Mix|Mix]]

:Many sentient beings have big egos, doubtless including some therians. I haven't met many myself; the one I know best may have a big ego, but if so they don't show it all that much.

:The marriage between the [[furry fandom]] and those of a therianthropic nature is not an easy one. There is a certain level of conscious individualism required for those who wish to avoid getting sucked into the catchall categorization of "furry", and if this isn't expressed well it's likely to result in people viewing that as a "big ego", even if the individual concerned just wants to avoid being lumped in with everyone else. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

::I have an ego? no, it's just that Dragons are better than all other species, that's all. I don't know what you are talking about, unless you mean comments like "I'm a were wolf and you have to try it" as if they assume that everyone else is a therian. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Reversion ==

I don't even understand what this is supposed to say, apart from the copyediting problems:

: '' however, some therians have been known to lose control and "go feral", a stage in which they become clinical lycanthropes. they may exhibit behavior such as uncontrollable mental shifting and personality changes. this is usually the result of not being able to the pain any loger and neglecting the techniques, or losing control during a Lycanthopic Mental shift (an extreme type mental shift where the preformer "becomes an animal").''

This information neeeds some review. It seems overly generalized, and I question whether therians who "lose control" really do "become" clinical lycanthropes if they weren't before. The references to "pain" and "techniques" don't refer to anything mentioned earlier in the article, and I don't know what a "preformer" is or in what sense it becomes an animal. The changes aren't helpful to this article. What are you trying to say here, and can you say it better? --[[User:Lynn Onyx|Lynn Onyx]] 03:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

:some wolf told it to me... I was lazy, and copy pasted him. ^. .^;; '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Self serving? ==

This:
* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist] - A popular resource that encourages critical thinking and a rational adult perspective on therianthropy

Seems more like an advertisement for this website than an objective listing.
Should the description be removed??-{{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:Perhaps, or altered, if untrue. ''Is'' it a popular resource? ''Does'' it encourage such things? I am not in a position to judge, myself. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

::well, Werelist is a therian site that I use. It's safe, trustworthy, friendly, and POPULAR. so... yeah... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Therianthropy "Experts"? ==

What / who really defines what/who is or isn't "knowledgeable" about Therianthropy?
I see things being edited like-"This is not a reliable source" or "Refer to a knowledgeable source"...a LOT here...
Within a subculture that has only recently barely scratched the surface of all the many different possibilities and ideas/beliefs involving Therianism, who is to judge?
Just because someone has a message board are they a 'reliable Source'?
If Mr. X has had a website longer than Mr. Z, is he somehow considered more "knowledgeable"?
What s the criteria here?
Popularity?
Is this objective documentation going on here?
Or is it a bunch of people competing to promote their friends' and their own websites?
I'm asking seriously here...........
~tolerant one-{{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:well, therianthropy is a mutch less close knit group than furry. But, if you give me specifics then I might be able to clarify... o. .o;; '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

::I can come back on this now. There are many Therians who have devoted time to study Therianthropy and for theories. some examples are '''Wolf VanZandt''' and '''Savage''' Tornclaw. another way to check facts is asking on a site like [[The Werelist]] or ''The Forest of the unknown'' or any other respectable and level headed therian site. the people who '''Don't''' know are people who claim to have "special insight" and usually form cults that teach what they claim is the "one true way to be a therian", which is preposterous, seeing as Therianthropy is a condition and you can't be something you aren't by simply joining a group and you aren't less of something simply because you aren't part of that group. I hope that clarifies it all! >. .O '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Therian Temple ==

I'm pretty sure we removed that link earlier after a bit of drama with [[therian]]. DO NOT put it back. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:This seems to be quite a bit of heated debate. I'm going to leave the edit be for now, but if it becomes an edit war, I will lock down this article. Play nice, everybody. There seems to be a strong consensus of Therians I know that do not wish this part of the article, but as it is a matter of record, the article stays put. We can't just cover our eyes and pretend what we don't like doesn't exist. I'd like to know what other people think though.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 01:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
::I do not believe "Therian Temple" should be a part of this article. The information they have on their website is misleading. Every therian I know does not wish to be associated with them.--[[User:Xainy|Xainy]]

== Therian and Furry ==

Is it possible to consider oneself a member of both the Therianthropy community and of the furry fandom? I'd love to know if there really is or not such a thick line between the two, because it seems like Therians I meet are very defensive about claiming they're not part of the fandom, but I myself gladly put myself in both categories. Is this not possible? [[User:Lupercaleb|Lupercaleb]] 10:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

:But of course it's possible! As Heinlein said, "Specialization is for insects." Saying that Therians can't be furries is sort of like saying if you like stamps, you can't like model railroading (or alternately, if you're Catholic, you can't like I Love Lucy reruns).----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

::You can be both, the main difference is that '''Furry''' is a choice, while '''Therianthropy''' is not something you can simply "switch on and off"

== Misleading... ==

This article could use a bit of rewriting using these facts:
*Therianthropy is NOT a choice. Therians cannot just "not be therian" and non-therians have no quick way of becoming therian either.
*Mental shifts are either Voluntary (meaning the person having them chooses to) or involuntary (meaning the person can't help it)
*Many Therians do small, unnoticeable things, such as wearing collars and such, to cope with therianthropy.
*many therians actually DO act like thier theriotype, or a least have instincts or something. unlike lifestyling, they can't choose which ones or when to have them. and if they are a predator, it can be "annoying"
*lots of Therians Role-Play. they like to play as P-shifters. Roleplayer is not commonly considered an insult/

theres a little more, and this is rough and rushed, but you get my points... anyone want to edit these in? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:Most of these are opinions, not facts. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 20:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you miss.Negative! >. .< '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:::I agree with cchristian. Even if some of those things aren't what some ''furry'' would call "factual", they are truthful enough from a therian point of view. I think they should be included, whether a ''furry'' seems to label them as "opinion" or not.

== TrueFormWithin.com ==

I don't know about that last link... if Therian Temple got in trouble, this one talks about "Vampires and the occult". Maybe someone should take a look at it? thanks... {{unsigned|67.34.103.184}}
:I don't know that site specifically, but in an overview article like [[Therianthropy]] we don't have to link to every related site, only the top most relevant ones. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 03:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

:I must make a comment here.
Indeed, if everyone got so upset with the group I am associated with, this surely does not deserve a link on this article.

This is simply an "opposing" occult group to the Therian Temple, only its based online around a message board (as well as a myspace.com group), and thus has no official "membership" like the TT does.
They have gone on internet radio defaming the Therian Temple, all the while promoting their own very weird view of "Therianism", "Psychic Vampirism", and "Otherkin Occultism".

Every bit as as weird as we (Therian Temple) are, possibly weirder. Only we do not harrass members of other groups online, such as TrueFormWithin have done to Therian Temple members, as well as other members of groups they do not agree with. Hell, IMO, they are weirder than the Temple of the Vampire and their message board, and they are really weird! (Nothing against any of these groups' beliefs systems or against being weird...I'm pretty "weird" myself--but I think these articles, from what I have seen here, are supposed to be what MOST people can agree on-not representing a biased POV) If we were "too extreme" or too "debatable", this definitely fits that bill as well.
What do you all think?
Peace,

[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
~~
:I haven't had time to really look at the site... but from that main page (especially that stuff about vampires), I might say it's not a site to link... I don't want this linked. I'm tired of repeating this: I don't want radical therian groups linked from this site. this is FURRY.wikia.com. Stuff like this belongs on THERIAN.wikia.com. I discovered Therianthropy through WikiFur, I don't want others who do so to find weird shit like this. The only community I would link is WereList, as that is one of the most level headed and new-were friendly sites. If you linked Christian Therianthropy, Forest of the Unknown, WereWolf.com, or Otherkin Network I would say the same thing (none of those are both level/common and notably popular).
:I don't have anything against Therian Temple anymore, nor these guys, but it is a matter of common-sense good policy: DON'T LINK OUT-THERE/NON-MAINSTREAM SITES. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:::(oh, and a PS. note to Magus Fenrir> Vampire Temple isn't well liked and doesn't look very legitamate. but at the same time, Vampire communities are usually... ODD....)

::Well I removed it, as it seemed to be more about vampires (mostly sanguine) rathar than Wereism. The ideas about Vamoires were uncommon... somewhat a radical group... (I also noticed they called Sex-Vampires "Incubi and Succubi", That's wrong, Those are Demon-kin types, Sex-Vampires are Tantric-Vampires.) '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 16:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

== Misuse of the Term Therianthropy ==

The article takes pains to give the etymology of the term "Therianthropy," and then goes on to establish a *distinctive* section where it discusses the sub-culture use of the term.

To any educated person, the word "therianthropy" means anything that has both human and animal characteristics, very much as the etymology suggests. It's not, primarily, the name of a subculture, much like the word 'therian,' to any educated person, means NOT some subculture, but is a term that means any mammal that bears live young (as opposed to monotremes and nonmammals.)

An effort should be made in the initial section of the article to say what Therianthropy actually means, because the actual word is quite relevant to english speaking members of the fandom, and doesn't have anything necessarily to do with shapechanging or the modern subculture at all. I'm not against the subculture having its own usages, but I'm against the insular elitism of reinventing a word, in a venue that is trying to CLARIFY matters (wikifur), with no explanation.[[Furthling]]
:I've submitted a modification of the first paragraph; I trust it'll be reverted if it's unacceptable. [[Furthling]]
::But this is an article about the said subculture. Not what the word means. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

User:CchristianTehWazzit

2007-07-22T16:21:01Z

CchristianTehWazzit: changing it a bit

I'm very jaded. just ignore me. I used to hang out here, but now I don't.

I am not a furry, I am a [[Therian]] (that article sucks). I am the head of [[:w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]].

'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Therian

2007-06-18T21:15:36Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* External links */ Therian.Wikia

:Main article at [[Therianthropy]].

'''Therians''' are people who believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to (an) animal(s). That is to say that part of their core being is animal, be it spiritually, mentally, et cetera. Unlike [[furry lifestyle]]rs, therians do not try to outwardly project their animalistic nature, nor do they choose the animal side they are inherently born with. Therians may also be called "shifters", though this can be a contentious term as a growing number feel they do not actually change from one state to another and more reflect a human-animal state by having an animal soul and a human body.

There are three categorized types of ''shifts'' acknowledged by the therian community:
* '''Mental (M-Shift)''' - A case where, for psychological reasons, a person has an animal-human mental state.
* '''Spiritual (S-Shift)''' - A case where, for spiritual reasons, a person has an animal-human mental state.
* '''Physical (P-Shift)''' - People who can magically or scientifically change forms.

Other types of shifts have been categorized from these terms and can be found in the links as listed below.

In spite of these formal definitions M-shift has become the dominant term to refer to any non-physical shift, whether for psychological reasons or spiritual reasons.

Shifting, in general, means times when animalistic aspects become, either through voluntary methods like meditation or drugs, or involuntarily, dominant over human aspects of the person's personality. This may include, but not be limited to, feelings of "phantom limbs" or fur, keener senses, desires to bite or hunt, feelings of instincts not usual to humans, etc. This shifting, however, is not limited to therians alone, as anyone is capable of bringing on an animalistic shift. Shifting is not an inherent, or required part of therianthropy.

P-shifting is the most controversial. As a general rule, it's more used as a term to discuss fictional [[transformation]]s rather than literal ones; people claiming to p-shift in any way are usually met with aggressive skepticism and are often accused of being [[roleplay]]ers. Any respectable therian community will require proof before they would allow anyone to discuss this ability. As such, no self-proclaimed Pshifter has ever offered up proof of their shifting ability.
Some Therian groups view the "physical shift" as NOT being an actual change into an animal, but an intense physiological change, which may include heightened senses, increased strength, etc.

Therians differ from the [[Furry lifestyle]] in that they do not try to mimic or bring their animal into their daily lives. Therians understand their nature as being -human- and -animal- and as thus feel no need to pretend or 'play the role' of the animal, save in some circumstances. Therians also do not, in any way, choose their animal side, they are born into it. It takes a great deal of introspection and understanding for a therian to come to terms with their inner animal nature. The therian nature is not based on stereotypes (such as a wolf howling at the moon, or a lion's courage).

Usually, therians have one animal aspect, or [[phenotype]], but some have two or more. Generally, these people are referred to as ''Polyweres'' [alternate term: Pan-Therian], and can be a source of controversy, as single-aspect therians often cannot relate to how a multiple-animal therian could exist, especially in the context of having an animal soul. Many are therian-[[otherkin]] mixes, such as wolf-dragons or cat-vampires.

A distinction between mythical therians and otherkin can be found however, as many otherkin seem to believe they have a 'past life' or an 'alternate existence/persona' which makes up their otherkin nature. Therians do not see their animalistic nature as being separate from themselves and as thus many of these types of mythicals have joined therian community.

==See also==
*[[Otherkin]]
*[[Therianthropy]]
*[[Furry lifestyle]]

==External links==
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therian Wiki]
* [http://www.werelist.com/ the Werelist]
* [http://therian.wikia.com/ Therian.Wikia]

[[Category:culture]]
[[Category:terms]]
[[Category:spirituality]]

Therianthropy

2007-06-18T21:11:48Z

CchristianTehWazzit: a little bit of sweeping, a little bit of clutter..... I'll make someone else clean this up later....

[[Image:TigerHologram.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hologram of a [[human]] combined with a picture of a [[tiger]] at the [[Wikipedia:MIT Museum|MIT Museum]]]]
'''Therianthropy,''' derived from the Greek '''''therion''''' (Θηριον, meaning "beast,") and '''''anthrōpos''''' (ανθρωπος, meaning "human,") refers to beings that are partly human and partly animal. It has often been used to describe depictions of mythological creatures and deities, and so has taken on a specialized meaning. Sometimes shortened to "therian," it is often used to describe members of a spiritually oriented subculture.

[[Therian]]s believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to an animal (or animals). Most believe that mental and emotional shifts can occur as a result; a controversial minority extend this to the physical world.

Therianthropy is sometimes viewed as a spiritual counterpart to [[furry fandom]], which is concerned more with imagination than belief. Some [[furries]] view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while some therians view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals. However, relations are usually friendly, and therians can often be found at furry [[convention]]s and other social [[:Category:Events|events]].

== Modern subcultural use of the term ==

=== Beliefs and origins ===
In recent times, a [[Wikipedia:Subculture|subculture]] has developed that has adopted the word ''therianthropy'' to describe a sense of intense [[furry spirituality|spiritual]] or psychological identification with a non-human animal. Members of this subculture typically refer to themselves as ''therianthropes'' or ''therians''. The word ''[[were]]'' was also common at one point, in reference to shapeshifting creatures of legend such as [[Werewolf|werewolves]], weretigers and the like, but is less common these days. One reason for the waning use of the term "were" is its growing use in the furry community to mean a more "bestial" style furry. This causes many misunderstandings between the therian and furry communities.

The [[Usenet]] group [[alt.horror.werewolves]] was founded in 1992, and in its earliest days the members discussed fictional [[shapeshifting|shapeshifters]]. Some posters began to publicly claim that they considered themselves to be partially non-human animal. A number of these people were only joking, but enough people were serious about it that it became a trend. Others who professed the same beliefs soon joined the group. The earliest therians called themselves ''lycanthropes'', but as that word more accurately describes wolf-people, ''therianthropes'' was chosen as a more inclusive term.

Those within this subculture who identify with a spiritual understanding of this phenomenon may believe that they have the spirit or soul, in whole or in part, of a non-human animal, and their beliefs often overlap to some extent with aspects of [[Wikipedia:Shamanism|shamanism]] or [[animal totem|totemism]]. Some also draw inspiration from stories of shapeshifting in [[Wikipedia:Celtic mythology|Celtic]], [[Wikipedia:Norse mythology|Norse]] and [[Wikipedia:Native American mythology|Native American]] myths, among others. The term ''spiritual therianthropy'' is often used to differentiate this definition of therianthropy from others. However, shamanism and totemism are not an intrinsic part of therianthropy.

Those who prefer a psychological explanation may simply describe it as having a non-human animal side to their personality or nature, with some believing that it may be due to some sort of unusual [[wikipedia:Neurophysiology|neurophysiology]], as is thought to be the case with syndromes like attention deficit disorder and autism. Others believe that their genes are partially non-human, but this explanation is unproven, scientifically implausible, and not favored by many. Most of those who support the explanation of atypical neuropsychology, however, do not appear to regard it as innately dysfunctional.

In either case, the identification with the non-human animal may be partial, as in those who regard themselves as having both human and non-human attributes, or complete, as in those who regard themselves as essentially non-human animals in human bodies. The terms ''species dysphoria'' and ''transspeciesism'' have occasionally been used to refer to the latter phenomenon, in parallel with the concepts of gender dysphoria and [[Wikipedia:Transsexuality|transsexuality]].

Most therians identify with a single type of non-human animal, but there are some who identify with more than one — sometimes related animals, as in several different species of [[feline]] or [[canine]], for example, but sometimes completely dissimilar animals. Those who identify with all members of one family — for instance, someone who claims to have characteristics of all felines — is called a ''cladotherianthrope''. The species of non-human animal with which a particular therian identifies is sometimes referred to as that person's ''theriotype'' or ''[[phenotype]]''. The term phenotype was originally more common but has fallen into disuse because it also refers to physical appearance.

The majority of therianthropes identify as [[feline]] or [[canine]], often big cats and wolves<ref>[http://archive.werelist.com/modules.php?name=Demographics&op=show_statistics&showpage=pheno1 Species survey by the Werelist]</ref>, but there are also [[reptile]]s, [[bird|avians]], other mammals, and [[insects]]. Some skeptics argue that, because of the preponderance of large carnivores, most therians are only faking and are purposefully choosing impressive animals for ego-based purposes. There are also some individuals who identify with mythical species (e.g. [[dragon]]s, [[Wikipedia:Elf|elves]], [[gryphon]]s, [[centaur]]s and so forth), but they are usually categorized in the broader [[otherkin]] community rather than as therians.

Therianthropes may describe their nature as manifesting in terms of their cognitive processes, their outlook on life, their inner reactions and [[Wikipedia:Instinct|instinct]]s, their senses, or through their physical body, though claims of actual physical variations from the norm tend to be regarded with skepticism both within and outside the subculture. The human and non-human aspects of the self may cooperate or conflict, leading to happiness or unhappy dysfunction, and may take much self-discovery to begin to understand or accept. Because this is a personal perception of self, the ways in which a person describes his or her self-identification as a therianthrope vary considerably.

A controversial aspect of therianthropy is the subject of ''shifting'' (a shortened word for shapeshifting), which generally refers to any manner by which a therianthrope's nature may become evidenced internally (to themselves) or externally to others. Few people within the subculture doubt that shifts of mental and emotional perception may occur; some therianthropes also claim to experience a physical change to their appearance, an event known as ''physical shifting'' (or ''P-shifting''). Many in the therianthrope subculture doubt that physical changes actually occur; the overwhelming majority of those outside of the culture completely deny that any real physical shifting can occur.

Some of the rationally minded, skeptical therianthropes suggest that their therianthropy may be a mental or psychological condition, possibly with a spiritual or religious component. Advocates of this viewpoint can be found on the forums at Werelist.com (see below).

=== Subculture ===

Therianthropy as a subculture does not have any central dogma or tenets, nor any recognized authority. Those who have been around for a long time are generally listened to, though less out of any perceived spiritual authority than simple acknowledgment of experience. The word [[greymuzzle]] is often used tongue-in-cheek to describe these people.

While there is no offline social organization, there exists a [[:Category:Community|community]] of therians with many diverse outlooks on the concept, including [[Christian fur|Christian]]s, [[Wikipedia:Pagan|Pagan]]s, and [[Wikipedia:Atheism|atheist]]s. As could be expected, disagreements are frequent, and the many online [[forum]]s and [[:Category:Chat rooms|chat rooms]] of the community each have their own "atmosphere," ranging from total acceptance to scornful cynicism. There have been intermittent "real-world" gatherings, referred to as ''howls'', but their purpose is primarily social.

==== Therianthropy vs. Species Dysphoria ====
Therianthropy is closely related to species dysphoria, a condition similar to [[Wikipedia:Gender_Dysphoria|gender dysphoria]] in which the person has the body of a human, but the identity of an animal. Many Therians admit to having at least mild Species Dysphoria, and today, many therians believe that species dysphoria is simply another "symptom" of therianthropy.

==== Therianthropy vs. clinical lycanthropy ====
Spiritual therianthropy is not automatically the same as clinical lycanthropy, a mental illness in which an individual believes he or she belongs to or can change to another [[species]]. While some therianthropes believe they can take on the mindset of their "other side" in what is referred to as a ''mental shift'', they believe that they retain control during these transformations and are no greater danger to themselves or others. The term ''contherianthropes'' is sometimes used for those who do not claim to mentally shift but believe they have human and non-human sides which are mixed up into a single unchanging whole.

==== Therianthropy and furry ====
Therianthropy should not be confused with the [[furry fandom]], though some intermixing of the groups does occur. Therianthropes tend to be more focused on the sense of an animal within, an animal side to their nature, or spiritual concepts; by contrast, [[furry|furries]] are more commonly focused on furry [[art]] and/or [[role-playing]] related to [[anthropomorphic]] non-humans. There is some overlap with those who identify themselves with each group or view the other positively, as well as those in each group who view the other negatively. For instance, some furries view therianthropy as "taking it too far," or may think of therians as being just plain weird. At the same time, many therians dislike furries because of their pervceived lack of understanding of therianthropy itself, which can lead to confusion, or because they perceive the fandom as being primarily sexual.

==== Therianthropy and Shamanism ====
Therianthropy and shamanism have a great deal in common at the basic level. Many therians believe in Shamanic and mystic ideas. Many who practice shamanism hold an interest in therianthropy. Many Therianthropes claim to have spirit guides, or Totems.

=== The historical aspect of Therianthropy ===
It has been found, that the modern day therians are not the first to note such feelings. In fact, in an odd twisst of fate, the popular myth of werewolves which therians origionally tied themselves to, can actually be traced back to the Dark-Ages, at which point people who were called "Were-Wolves", claimed to have spiritual feelings of an "inner animal": Therianthropy. The origional "Were-Wolves" were not feared or considered monsters, but were actually highly respected members of the community. At some point in history, Were-Wolves were regarded by the Christian church as being empowered with a "divine gift", someetimes being referred to as the "Dogs of God". Even before this, accounts of "humans who were animals inside" date back as far as Egyptian times!

== See also ==

* [[Lifestylers]]
* [[Otherkin]]
* [[Therian]]
* [[Were]]
* [[Werewolf]]
* [[Wikipedia:Therianthropy|Therianthropy]] on Wikipedia

==References==
<references />

==External links==

* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist]
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therianthropy Wiki]
* [http://dreamofhorn.com/therian The WereLibrary]
* [[:w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]]

[[Category: Terms]]
{{Wikipedia|Therianthropy}}
{{featured article}}

Therianthropy

2007-06-18T20:41:48Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Never heard of that "true nature" thing, this is a bit closer.

[[Image:TigerHologram.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hologram of a [[human]] combined with a picture of a [[tiger]] at the [[Wikipedia:MIT Museum|MIT Museum]]]]
'''Therianthropy,''' derived from the Greek '''''therion''''' (Θηριον, meaning "beast,") and '''''anthrōpos''''' (ανθρωπος, meaning "human,") refers to beings that are partly human and partly animal. It has often been used to describe depictions of mythological creatures and deities, and so has taken on a specialized meaning. Sometimes shortened to "therian," it is often used to describe members of a spiritually oriented subculture.

[[Therian]]s believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to an animal (or animals). Most believe that mental and emotional shifts can occur as a result; a controversial minority extend this to the physical world.

Therianthropy is sometimes viewed as a spiritual counterpart to [[furry fandom]], which is concerned more with imagination than belief. Some [[furries]] view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while some therians view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals. However, relations are usually friendly, and therians can often be found at furry [[convention]]s and other social [[:Category:Events|events]].

== Modern subcultural use of the term ==

=== Beliefs and origins ===

In recent times, a [[Wikipedia:Subculture|subculture]] has developed that has adopted the word ''therianthropy'' to describe a sense of intense [[furry spirituality|spiritual]] or psychological identification with a non-human animal. Members of this subculture typically refer to themselves as ''therianthropes'' or ''therians''. The word ''[[were]]'' was also common at one point, in reference to shapeshifting creatures of legend such as [[Werewolf|werewolves]], weretigers and the like, but is less common these days. One reason for the waning use of the term "were" is its growing use in the furry community to mean a more "bestial" style furry. This causes many misunderstandings between the therian and furry communities.

The [[Usenet]] group [[alt.horror.werewolves]] was founded in 1992, and in its earliest days the members discussed fictional [[shapeshifting|shapeshifters]]. Some posters began to publicly claim that they considered themselves to be partially non-human animal. A number of these people were only joking, but enough people were serious about it that it became a trend. Others who professed the same beliefs soon joined the group. The earliest therians called themselves ''lycanthropes'', but as that word more accurately describes wolf-people, ''therianthropes'' was chosen as a more inclusive term.

Those within this subculture who identify with a spiritual understanding of this phenomenon may believe that they have the spirit or soul, in whole or in part, of a non-human animal, and their beliefs often overlap to some extent with aspects of [[Wikipedia:Shamanism|shamanism]] or [[animal totem|totemism]]. Some also draw inspiration from stories of shapeshifting in [[Wikipedia:Celtic mythology|Celtic]], [[Wikipedia:Norse mythology|Norse]] and [[Wikipedia:Native American mythology|Native American]] myths, among others. The term ''spiritual therianthropy'' is often used to differentiate this definition of therianthropy from others. However, shamanism and totemism are not an intrinsic part of therianthropy.

Those who prefer a psychological explanation may simply describe it as having a non-human animal side to their personality or nature, with some believing that it may be due to some sort of unusual [[wikipedia:Neurophysiology|neurophysiology, as is thought to be the case with syndromes like attention deficit disorder and autism. Others believe that their genes are partially non-human, but this explanation is unproven, scientifically implausible, and not favored by many. Most of those who support the explanation of atypical neuropsychology, however, do not appear to regard it as innately dysfunctional.

In either case, the identification with the non-human animal may be partial, as in those who regard themselves as having both human and non-human attributes, or complete, as in those who regard themselves as essentially non-human animals in human bodies. The terms ''species dysphoria'' and ''transspeciesism'' have occasionally been used to refer to the latter phenomenon, in parallel with the concepts of gender dysphoria and [[Wikipedia:Transsexuality|transsexuality]].

Most therians identify with a single type of non-human animal, but there are some who identify with more than one — sometimes related animals, as in several different species of [[feline]] or [[canine]], for example, but sometimes completely dissimilar animals. Those who identify with all members of one family — for instance, someone who claims to have characteristics of all felines — is called a ''cladotherianthrope''. The species of non-human animal with which a particular therian identifies is sometimes referred to as that person's ''theriotype'' or ''[[phenotype]]''. The term phenotype was originally more common but has fallen into disuse because it also refers to physical appearance.

The majority of therianthropes identify as [[feline]] or [[canine]], often big cats and wolves<ref>[http://archive.werelist.com/modules.php?name=Demographics&op=show_statistics&showpage=pheno1 Species survey by the Werelist]</ref>, but there are also [[reptile]]s, [[bird|avians]], other mammals, and [[insects]]. Some skeptics argue that, because of the preponderance of large carnivores, most therians are only faking and are purposefully choosing impressive animals for ego-based purposes. There are also some individuals who identify with mythical species (e.g. [[dragon]]s, [[Wikipedia:Elf|elves]], [[gryphon]]s, [[centaur]]s and so forth), but they are usually categorized in the broader [[otherkin]] community rather than as therians.

Therianthropes may describe their nature as manifesting in terms of their cognitive processes, their outlook on life, their inner reactions and [[Wikipedia:Instinct|instinct]]s, their senses, or through their physical body, though claims of actual physical variations from the norm tend to be regarded with skepticism both within and outside the subculture. The human and non-human aspects of the self may cooperate or conflict, leading to happiness or unhappy dysfunction, and may take much self-discovery to begin to understand or accept. Because this is a personal perception of self, the ways in which a person describes his or her self-identification as a therianthrope vary considerably.

A controversial aspect of therianthropy is the subject of ''shifting'' (a shortened word for shapeshifting), which generally refers to any manner by which a therianthrope's nature may become evidenced internally (to themselves) or externally to others. Few people within the subculture doubt that shifts of mental and emotional perception may occur; some therianthropes also claim to experience a physical change to their appearance, an event known as ''physical shifting'' (or ''P-shifting''). Many in the therianthrope subculture doubt that physical changes actually occur; the overwhelming majority of those outside of the culture completely deny that any real physical shifting can occur.

Some of the rationally minded, skeptical therianthropes suggest that their therianthropy may be a mental or psychological condition, possibly with a spiritual or religious component. Advocates of this viewpoint can be found on the forums at Werelist.com (see below).

=== Subculture ===

Therianthropy as a subculture does not have any central dogma or tenets, nor any recognized authority. Those who have been around for a long time are generally listened to, though less out of any perceived spiritual authority than simple acknowledgment of experience. The word [[greymuzzle]] is often used tongue-in-cheek to describe these people.

While there is no offline social organization, there exists a [[:Category:Community|community]] of therians with many diverse outlooks on the concept, including [[Christian fur|Christian]]s, [[Wikipedia:Pagan|Pagan]]s, and [[Wikipedia:Atheism|atheist]]s. As could be expected, disagreements are frequent, and the many online [[forum]]s and [[:Category:Chat rooms|chat rooms]] of the community each have their own "atmosphere," ranging from total acceptance to scornful cynicism. There have been intermittent "real-world" gatherings, referred to as ''howls'', but their purpose is primarily social.

==== Therianthropy vs. Species Dysphoria ====

Therianthropy is closely related to species dysphoria, a condition similar to [[Wikipedia:Gender_Dysphoria|gender dysphoria]] in which the person has the body of a human, but the identity of an animal. Many Therians admit to having at least mild Species Dysphoria, and today, many therians believe that species dysphoria is simply another "symptom" of therianthropy.

==== Therianthropy vs. clinical lycanthropy ====

Spiritual therianthropy is not automatically the same as clinical lycanthropy, a mental illness in which an individual believes he or she belongs to or can change to another [[species]]. While some therianthropes believe they can take on the mindset of their "other side" in what is referred to as a ''mental shift'', they believe that they retain control during these transformations and are no greater danger to themselves or others. The term ''contherianthropes'' is sometimes used for those who do not claim to mentally shift but believe they have human and non-human sides which are mixed up into a single unchanging whole.

==== Therianthropy and furry ====
Therianthropy should not be confused with the [[furry fandom]], though some intermixing of the groups does occur. Therianthropes tend to be more focused on the sense of an animal within, an animal side to their nature, or spiritual concepts; by contrast, [[furry|furries]] are more commonly focused on furry [[art]] and/or [[role-playing]] related to [[anthropomorphic]] non-humans. There is some overlap with those who identify themselves with each group or view the other positively, as well as those in each group who view the other negatively. For instance, some furries view therianthropy as "taking it too far," or may think of therians as being just plain weird. At the same time, many therians dislike furries because of their pervceived lack of understanding of therianthropy itself, which can lead to confusion, or because they perceive the fandom as being primarily sexual.

==== Being "cured" ====

While many Therians agree that the condition interferes with normal activity and can be annoying at times, many also agree that given a choice, they would not be "cured" and become non-therians.

== See also ==

* [[Lifestylers]]
* [[Otherkin]]
* [[Therian]]
* [[Were]]
* [[Werewolf]]
* [[Wikipedia:Therianthropy|Therianthropy]] on Wikipedia

==References==
<references />

==External links==

* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist]
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therianthropy Wiki]
* [http://dreamofhorn.com/therian The WereLibrary]
* [[:w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]]

[[Category: Terms]]
{{Wikipedia|Therianthropy}}
{{featured article}}

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-06-10T00:44:59Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Shortening. */

== Therian ==
WHAT THE FUCKING SHITTY DICK-SUCKING HELL DID I SAY AT [[talk:therian]]?!?!?!? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 02:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:ok, maybe I need to calm down. But it is true, this is THERIAN and does not belong on WikiFur. It is also kind of annoying that he would post an article like this during all this drama.
:Note to said individual: Please Stop, I am rethinking my offer of a spot on Therian. Then again, I still don't believe you. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 02:59 (and 3:05), 21 April 2007 (UTC)

==Deletion?==
This article seems extremely biased and honestly I think this article has no place on wikifur, as it's promoting sales instead of providing information. If we had an article on Scientology, how would that be handled? Personally, I think this should be viewed the same way. [[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 03:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:THANK YOU. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:I think the sales pitch stuff needs to go, but the actual informative stuff could stay. Who? what? where? why? how? when? That kind of stuff. Would anyone like to rewrite the article in a professional standard?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 09:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

::The problem, I believe, with your solution Ken is actually finding someone that CAN write the article in an un-biased tone. Personally, I'm still voting (for what it's worth) for deletion.--[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 12:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

== Why is this here anyway? ==

look, this is WIKIFUR: the [[furry]] encyclopedia. about the [[furry fandom]]. An article about an unpopular group that targets therians dosn't really belong here, and is stirring up drama (mostly with me, driving me crazy >. .<). I've already said "let's move it to the therian wiki when it's up", I'm going to bed, please discuss it so I can be ready... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:I know there are distinctions to be made between the various fandoms, but there are articles related to therianthropy, were, otherkin and all sorts of other good stuff on this wiki. Because they tie in sort of, I suspect.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 09:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:The article is here because things don't always fall into neat little compartments. There's crossover between furry fandom, therians, otherkin, anime, science fiction, etc. That's reason enough to have this article here.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

== Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion ==

Removed this:
 "Members of the popular and reliable online forum "[[The Werelist]]" have commented that it only exists to con new and unsuspecting therians out of their money<ref>http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=26309&sid=65026a959bb4552b22286e09d737c8f9</ref>. Such groups are often known to prey upon new therians, especially cults, who kidnap and kill therians quite a bit. Others suggest that this is a cult meant to promote the founder's own idealogy<ref>http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1376&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15</ref>. Some false accusations suggesting that blood-drinking or other violent activities take place were primarily based upon the red and black scheme of the group's original website. (citation needed)"
 Reasons: aside from citation needed-it accuses a group of illegal activity.
If this is supposedly going on, police, NOT online wiki pages should be informed.
It is also CLEARLY an advert for the werelist, claiming itself to be "popular and reliable", neither of which claim can realistically be proven.
 There is NO documentation of this EVER happening anywhere:
"Such groups are often known to prey upon new therians, especially cults, who kidnap and kill therians quite a bit."
If any such group KILLED anyone...there would be records of this.
Lies and false accusations ARE not objective information. - {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|12:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)}}

:I have removed the recent edits that take away the NPOVness of the article, what little of it there is. However, I have let the references stay and sit. As far as The Werelist goes, by my own information, which is limited, it is one of the most heavily trafficked and comprehensive sites, as well as free, that I can find on therianthropy. So such a claim could be REASONABLY accurate. Nevertheless, I have toned down the tone. On the same token, I'd like to request you do so too. WikiFur is not a KoolAid stand. It's not a place for detailed touting of your beliefs, neither is it a place to advertise to come on over. I would suggest a massive rewrite be done by a neutral third party. For the record, according to my dictionary, a cult is defined as "a religion or sect considered to be unorthodox or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader." If the shoe fits, wear it. Frankly, I believe that any religion that "sells" its mysteries for easy payments, call now, to be bumpkus. This includes TV evangelists, before you start citing them. Religion and faith and knowledge should be freely available to the masses. No charge. But that is my own personal opinion and addendum and has nothing related to my administration here, as I am required to take a neutral stance here in my duties. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

::I'd just like to note that the small edits I made were taken directly from information I found on the Therian Temple page itself. Hardly slander if they say it about themselves, aye? [[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 18:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Mr. Cocksucker, No one said that "Therian" Temple Kidnapped or Killed anyone. I made a point that many of the insane accusations were false. The citation however, was for the bits about some of them, like drinking blood. IF you were a Therian (which you are NOT.) you would know that cults often DO prey upon Therians, kidnapping them to be "oracles" and such, or sacrifices. Please stop slandering the title of therian, as it is truly offensive to REAL Therians. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding: "Mr. Cocksucker, No one said that "Therian" Temple Kidnapped or Killed anyone. I made a point that many of the insane accusations were false. The citation however, was for the bits about some of them, like drinking blood. IF you were a Therian (which you are NOT.) you would know that cults often DO prey upon Therians, kidnapping them to be "oracles" and such, or sacrifices. Please stop slandering the title of therian, as it is truly offensive to REAL Therians. - cchristian talk"---
 Please give an example of ANY "cult" that has ever kidnapped or harmed a Therian, or that drinks blood. Are there police reports? News articles? ANY proof of something like this EVER happening? Please provide links. If you cannot do so, please stop making up fairytales...also, considering that I myself am gay, what is wrong with being a "cocksucker"? Is that supposed to be an insult?~tolerant- {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|12:47 (and 12:49), 27 April 2007 (UTC)}}

:If you are going to become insulted by my rash insult, I guess I should note: I DRINK BLOOD. I am very annoyed at the fact that you would say that you were accused of "drinking blood" as if it was something bad, or that [[Vampire-Kin]] Do not do it, as well as some therians. please do NOT attempt to shake relations between the Therians and the Vampires as we are already having difficulty with recent hollywood type media talking about a "War" between our two groups. We are not discussing Vampires, and your attempts to shake relations are pathetic.
:As for the cult business; Therian Temple is considered by those who do a little looking to be nothing more than a scam. No reasonable were will make a strong claim that Therian Temple does anything remotely like what cults have been known to do. As for cults harming therians, many cults harm therians, that is a fact. you would not understand this, as you are not a therian.
:What I can see you are doing here is a very common cult trick of muddying the waters with this sort of "he accused me of murder! that's a lie! he's bad!" in order to try and gain footing against an opponent when your own home-ground, frankly, Sucks. I am sorry that so far I have not been reasonable, I will stop. I am perfectly willing to talk honestly, peacefully, civilly, and respectfully if you will do the same. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 05:37 (and 05:51), 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::Ok, sir, again you have shown NO PROOF of ANY "cult" EVER harming ANY therian.
::Where is even an article about this??-please enlighten me here...
::Chances are, you are just making it up, or going on rumours in your own social circle. Also-how do you define "cult"-anything not big enough to have its own building??
::Secondly, what is the "scam" involved with Therian Temple? Again you have NO PROOF.
::What type of scam* do you mean-we don't make any promises to anyone, as it states right on our site, so how could it be a scam??-people order the book, we have it printed and shipped,they read it and use it- wherein this "scam" you keep talking about??
::Thirdly, the only legally recognized Vampire religion, the Temple of the Vampire says right on their site that physical blood drinking is not allowed-so whoever drinks blood, does it of their own volition as an independent act, not part of any organized "vampire" group.
::Also, I have never heard of ANY therians, except YOU right now, who think drinking blood is OK, or who would claim to do it, or that Therians do it.
::Fourthly, there is not and never has been any "war" between vampires and therians, nor should there be.
::Calm down.
::Lastly, I myself am a Wolf Therian, for your information.
::Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ 19:28 (to 19:32), 19 May 2007 (UTC)

:Once again, you have COMPLETELY ignored what I said: CULTS KILLING/KIDNAPPING THERIANS IS NOT RELEVANT, No one has ever made a serious claim of Therian Temple doing this. I will not discuss this in relation to Therian Temple, as it is not related as Therian Temple DOES NOT kill/kidnap therians and is not being accused of it.
:Also, It is good that we both agree that there has never been, and never will be a war between the Vampires and Therians. I was simply becoming annoyed at the fact that you make the claim that you have been accused of "Drinking Blood" as if it is such a bad thing. (I would also like to note that, most vampires do not drink blood, and may also feed off of sadness, sexual energy, pain, and thought. the ones who DO drink blood, either take a small amount from willing donors or from raw steak. I drink blood from raw steak, as it's not wholesome to consume human blood.)
:While, as I said, it is not common to drink blood, I am sure that there are were-vampire bats and such who have a desire and , seeing as there is nothing wrong with it, give in to the urge to drink blood. Many therians (wolves, foxes, and big-cats namely) have also noted that while they do feel sorry for the dead animal, in a spiritual way, they also have the urge to eat roadkill. They of course, don't give in to this, but still have it the same.
:also, I am aware of, yet do not care about, the Vampire Temple (which I actually heard of just after I made my last statement, and is supposedly part of the same scam as Therian Temple) is not a commonly accepted group within the vampire culture, and all the same, Isee them as having as much authority/relevance as Therian Temple. I would also note that it is NOT the only Vampire related religion.
:I would discuss why I continuously say "Scam" with you, but I am currently making such large responses to your pointless and irrelevant arguments, that I am not going to say what would make my response twice as large.
:I am also very confused as to why there would be a "Therian Religion" as you say, as Therianthropy in itself has little to do with Theology, and has nothing about gods, magic, holy powers, prayer, etc. I am MonoTheistic, Conservative-Jewish, I have no problem with being Jewish AND Therian at the same time.
:As to your claimed "therianthropy", I seriously doubt that you are a therian. can you explain anything regarding it? Therianthropy is not just some religion, you do not simply take the "oath of Therion" (which I still don't understand what it is supposed to be... Therion is a Wolf constellation...). Therianthropy is a random Mental/Spiritual condition, it is not easy to change whether or not someone is one, if it's possible at all... but if you are going to continue to make this claim, I guess that I will leave it at this statement.
:still waiting to directly discuss the situation at hand, '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 21:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

::There is nothing at all wrong with being Therian & Jewish at once.
::However, If you drink blood, you are breaking the rules of Judaism, which you claim to follow, and reinforcing anti-Semitic blood libel.
::For your information the word "Therion" is Latin for "Beast".::
::It is where the word "Therianthropy" comes from.
::The Latin world was only used later to name a constellation.
::You have never met me, and I do not care if some hyberbolic blood drinker online who may or may not even be serious thinks I'm not Therian, when I live my life as a Therian everyday.
::Also, you clearly stated that you "can't understand" some of what I'm talking about, and this is obviously the entire issue.
::You simply are not capable of understanding simple things which are explained in plain text: all the issues you bring up are addressed in the Therian Temple's FAQ page, including the idea of Therianthropy as a religion (as it states on our site, MANY of our members do not consider it a religion-not every magical practice is a religion), the meat issue(we are not all full-time vegetarians, if you would read our site, you'd know this).
::Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ (comment signed, but edit from anon ip){{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|16:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

:::I am quite offended by the way you talk about Judaism. Top correct what you said: Drinking blood is not "against the rules", it is simply Not Kosher. I do not eat kosher except on Shabbat. I also do not drink the blood of human infants, I have NEVER consumed human blood, and, as my blood drinking is NOT a Judaism issue, I see it as unrelated. Please DO NOT PRACTICE INTOLERANCE IN A SIMPLE DEBATE.
:::I was aware of the origins of the word Therianthropy. What I do not understand is WHY you are making up such things to make it sound more extravagant.
:::as far as I know, I am not "Hyperbolic". I do not have Sine, Cosine, Tangent, etc. I don't know what you meant to say, but it sounds like you are calling me Anemic or something??? Doesn't matter. My personal habits are not being discussed here. I still do not believe you are a therian, I'm not even sure if you think you are, and at this rate, you will never be able to prove it to me. It does not matter right now, Let's get on with the actual discussion.
:::You are correct. I do not understand, and I will not if you continue to act this way. but I am getting a good picture at your so-called "therian beliefs"... but I did take a look at your site a few months ago when the link was first deleted, and I did not like what I saw. I do not see why you keep it so secretive, why, if you believe it to be right, you do not share it with others, and if it is worth-while, they would buy the $30 book.
:::the meat issue doesn't matter right now, I'm sorry I brought it up, we should drop it as we are not discussing such right now.
:::as for this "Therian Magic", I would have to see what you are talking about.
:::I'd REALLY like to start talking about the matter at hand. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 18:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

:
"Hyberbolic" is the adjective to describe someone using such hyperbole as your own.
 hy·per·bo·le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
[Latin hyperbol, from Greek huperbol, excess, from huperballein, to exceed : huper, beyond; see hyper- + ballein, to throw; see gwel- in Indo-European roots.]
 Ok, so you have made clear that you do not eat only Kosher.
At least you cleared up that you do not drink HUMAN blood, which you have not stated previously.
The point is, none of the Jewish people I know, including family members, would ever approve of drinking blood.
But, dont you dare call ME intolerant when your apparent entire goal is to try and diminish the name and worth of the system of belief to which I adhere.
Also, I doubted that you were a Therian from the first post I read by you, because you are so closed-minded and intolerant of other peoples beliefs outside your own.
You seem to think anyone who disagrees with you is simply WRONG, and should be silenced, or at least ostracized. Unfair.
 Lastly...there is NOTHING "secretive" about the Therian Temple, aside from the fact that we do not disclose our members personal information.
Everything we believe in and practice is readily available:our basic tenets are on the site, rumours & questions are answered in our FAQ page, and ANYONE can buy the book and read it WITHOUT becoming a member, which, again, if you took the time to read through or site, you would already know.
Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ (comment signed, but edit from anon ip) {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|18:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

:This has to be the stupidest conversation I've ever read. First we had someone talking about a junk edit (fair enough), which was quickly followed by cchristianTehWazzit's paranoid rantings about cults supposedly kidnapping/killing therians. And if that wasn't enough, the conversation then moves to hollywood type media" supposedly suggesting a war between Otherkin and Therians. I can't remember what that movie was called, but you should really quit taking the movies so seriously IMO. And finally we have a pair of "weres" arguing over who is a real therian and who isn't...
: For your own sake I truely hope anyone involved with this conversation was jokeing.
: And the stupidest part? I was able to post this without having to create a sockpuppet account. :{{unsigned|LOL!!fursecution!!LOL}} 17:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

::(note that I though to say this before I read Smark's comment... YOU HEAR ME??? YOU DIDN'T AFFECT ME YOU LITTLE ************!!!!1!11!)
::Sorry it took me so long to respond... I was busy with other stuff...
This entire argument is pointless. It has nothing to do with the matter at hand. We shouldn't be continuing with a set of arguments completely unrelated to the matter at hand. so whatever. Sooner or later we have to agree on something, and I'm going to stop with the bullshit and try and get this back to a discussion instead of a pointless argument about nothing.
Here is a list of things we probably agree on:
* Therian and Furry aren't the same. this article really doesn't belong on WikiFur.
* Newly Discovered Therians really don't need to see this. Stuff like this is only for long-time serious therians. as you yourself said, you don't want people who are "just looking", you want Therians who know what they are doing.
* Therian Temple is not very well respected in the community. We can agree on this I'm sure. Maybe the things said about it aren't always true, but most people don't like it.
* This IS important. Therian Temple IS note worthy. I know about it, Werelist knows about it, "Codeine's Mum" may even know about it. We can't say it's nothing, no matter how many/few members it has, most have heard of it.
* The Criticisms section is bullshit. Anyone who thinks that Therian Temple members drink blood has been stuffing something up their nose. Nobody worth asking seriously thinks that and there's no real reason to say it.
* It doesn't matter who is/isn't a therian or what we do personally. Arguing about that is stupid and irrelevant.
* Therian Temple is not an insane Cult and is not going to hurt anyone. I think the entire thing is crap if you ask me, but on review, I guess it MAY be about as legitimate as alot of the weird stuff I see on some Otherkin boards (I don't know, I can't know, I don't own a copy of the "Therian Bible") I don't think it is, but if people follow it, [[uncyclopedia:Nobody_cares|who cares]]...
I'm pretty sure we can both agree on that, so we need to stop debating what is blatantly BullShit and think up a compromise.
:Here is what I think is fair and what we should do:
* This article should be deleted from WikiFur. - It has NOTHING to do with Furry and is just causing anti WikiFur drama within the community.
* We will make a new article at Therianthropy.wikia.com - It DOES belong there. I would LOVE to see it there, it has so much relevance.
* The article should be factual. Not full of bias (that goes either way). It shouldn't be the FAQ page for Therian Temple, and it shouldn't be completely Negative.
* The entire debate over whether or not Therian Temple is [insert something extreme here] should end. starting here. It's a stupid debate that can never end. so there. The End.
How is that? I can agree to all of that (don't like some of it, but I'm happy to agree with all of it) Do you like it? any changes? or are we settled?
'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:Alright-making some sense here now.
I agree arguing over fine points was getting ridiculous, this is why I hadn't even come back to this page in a while....
I think the article initially ended up here because my roommate Jon, (a furry) frequents this site and found an article on Therians so he thought he should put an article on Therian Temple, then some other people started editing it, yadda yadda...
So,fee free to put a new one on the Therian Wiki you mentioned..
Peace to you all,
Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~

:yeah. So we should get them to delete this one? it sounds like we both agree... You may want to edit it though, I put it at [[:w:c:therian:Therian_Temple]]. I would hope that you would actually edit the wiki, as we need some more people to get some articles... (and I don't understand terms well enough to write detailed articles on anything more complex than shoelaces... ^.^;;)
:'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

: Ok-do whatever they do here to edit it, or make it redirect to the Therian Wikia page perhaps? I just edited the one there, I just copied the article from here to there, if that's ok. And I shall try to help over there as much as I can. Peace,
Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~

::Ok then. I'll get them to delete this one. see you there! >. .O '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
== Ask me. ==

Ok-My roommate, a furry, not therian,(who made the post above) directed me here.
He has been watching this-I think he calls himself "Tolerant1" online.
There is clearly some amount of confusion going on about this article/topic.

Due to possible conflict of interest, I will not personally edit this article, however:
If there is reliable information needed about the Therian Temple, please go straight to the source and email me: ordovirbestia@theriantemple.com

For the record:
One thing can be certain: no TT member has ever committed a crime.
If any member was ever to do so, they would have their membership immediately revoked (we don't even allow illegal drug use).
Stating in an online resource that we are involved in ANY criminal activity is in fact a legal issue of libel / slander (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) and legal action WILL be taken against any people making such false claims.

Peace to you all.
Magus Fenrir Therion,
Therian Temple
[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
~~ 12:33 (to 12:47), 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:RULE No. 1 - No threatening legal action. *laughs at a cocksucker* '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

::Rule #2. [[WikiFur:No personal attacks|No personal attacks.]] The "cocksucker" remarks are WAY out of line. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 14:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

:::The user has already been reprimanded for this and has served a suspension from WikiFur. But thanks for reminding us of the rule here. Very important.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 18:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

== Recent edit? ==
I reverted the recent edit because it seemed a little fishy...any more knowledgeable persons wish to help with the accuracy of [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Therian_Temple&curid=25908&diff=137234&oldid=133832 the edit]? [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

:yeah, that's not true. NO ONE has EVER accused them of ''Drinking Blood'', and if they did, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I drink blood. Therian Temple is generally regarded as a Scam more than "''dangerous''" or "''illegal''", so many of those claims of being accused of such are false and/or misleading. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Shortening. ==

Ok, as this article is only a source of drama for me to deal with, I'm shortening it. Several members of Therian Temple and other groups have expressed concern over the fact that this article is on a furry fandom site and everyone on both sides dissagrees with it. So I'm shortening it to the bare essentials. Don't like it? then you should either talk here or vandalize [[:w:c:therian|HERE]]. otherwise, go away and let us deal with it.

Before anyone says anything, I'm doing this after a long set of discussions over IRC and in other places. I said I would do it in #WikiFur at one point, now I am doing it. also, to any therians reading this: I AM NOT A WIKIFUR SYSOP. I do not have "influence" here. I used to, but I left the project. stop holding me accountable.

ZERO regards, '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 00:44, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

:I'm goin to see if I can get Magus Fenrir to help with this... I'm sure he can clean it up more... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-06-10T00:29:11Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Shortening.

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-06-07T19:30:10Z

CchristianTehWazzit: the end

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-06-06T16:41:44Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* TrueFormWithin.com */ deh end

{{Featured}}
----
Is it just me, or do Therians have a huge fucking ego at times? --[[User:Mix|Mix]]

:Many sentient beings have big egos, doubtless including some therians. I haven't met many myself; the one I know best may have a big ego, but if so they don't show it all that much.

:The marriage between the [[furry fandom]] and those of a therianthropic nature is not an easy one. There is a certain level of conscious individualism required for those who wish to avoid getting sucked into the catchall categorization of "furry", and if this isn't expressed well it's likely to result in people viewing that as a "big ego", even if the individual concerned just wants to avoid being lumped in with everyone else. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

::I have an ego? no, it's just that Dragons are better than all other species, that's all. I don't know what you are talking about, unless you mean comments like "I'm a were wolf and you have to try it" as if they assume that everyone else is a therian. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Reversion ==

I don't even understand what this is supposed to say, apart from the copyediting problems:

: '' however, some therians have been known to lose control and "go feral", a stage in which they become clinical lycanthropes. they may exhibit behavior such as uncontrollable mental shifting and personality changes. this is usually the result of not being able to the pain any loger and neglecting the techniques, or losing control during a Lycanthopic Mental shift (an extreme type mental shift where the preformer "becomes an animal").''

This information neeeds some review. It seems overly generalized, and I question whether therians who "lose control" really do "become" clinical lycanthropes if they weren't before. The references to "pain" and "techniques" don't refer to anything mentioned earlier in the article, and I don't know what a "preformer" is or in what sense it becomes an animal. The changes aren't helpful to this article. What are you trying to say here, and can you say it better? --[[User:Lynn Onyx|Lynn Onyx]] 03:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

:some wolf told it to me... I was lazy, and copy pasted him. ^. .^;; '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Self serving? ==

This:
* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist] - A popular resource that encourages critical thinking and a rational adult perspective on therianthropy

Seems more like an advertisement for this website than an objective listing.
Should the description be removed??-{{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:Perhaps, or altered, if untrue. ''Is'' it a popular resource? ''Does'' it encourage such things? I am not in a position to judge, myself. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

::well, Werelist is a therian site that I use. It's safe, trustworthy, friendly, and POPULAR. so... yeah... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Therianthropy "Experts"? ==

What / who really defines what/who is or isn't "knowledgeable" about Therianthropy?
I see things being edited like-"This is not a reliable source" or "Refer to a knowledgeable source"...a LOT here...
Within a subculture that has only recently barely scratched the surface of all the many different possibilities and ideas/beliefs involving Therianism, who is to judge?
Just because someone has a message board are they a 'reliable Source'?
If Mr. X has had a website longer than Mr. Z, is he somehow considered more "knowledgeable"?
What s the criteria here?
Popularity?
Is this objective documentation going on here?
Or is it a bunch of people competing to promote their friends' and their own websites?
I'm asking seriously here...........
~tolerant one-{{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:well, therianthropy is a mutch less close knit group than furry. But, if you give me specifics then I might be able to clarify... o. .o;; '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

::I can come back on this now. There are many Therians who have devoted time to study Therianthropy and for theories. some examples are '''Wolf VanZandt''' and '''Savage''' Tornclaw. another way to check facts is asking on a site like [[The Werelist]] or ''The Forest of the unknown'' or any other respectable and level headed therian site. the people who '''Don't''' know are people who claim to have "special insight" and usually form cults that teach what they claim is the "one true way to be a therian", which is preposterous, seeing as Therianthropy is a condition and you can't be something you aren't by simply joining a group and you aren't less of something simply because you aren't part of that group. I hope that clarifies it all! >. .O '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Therian Temple ==

I'm pretty sure we removed that link earlier after a bit of drama with [[therian]]. DO NOT put it back. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:This seems to be quite a bit of heated debate. I'm going to leave the edit be for now, but if it becomes an edit war, I will lock down this article. Play nice, everybody. There seems to be a strong consensus of Therians I know that do not wish this part of the article, but as it is a matter of record, the article stays put. We can't just cover our eyes and pretend what we don't like doesn't exist. I'd like to know what other people think though.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 01:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
::I do not believe "Therian Temple" should be a part of this article. The information they have on their website is misleading. Every therian I know does not wish to be associated with them.--[[User:Xainy|Xainy]]

== Therian and Furry ==

Is it possible to consider oneself a member of both the Therianthropy community and of the furry fandom? I'd love to know if there really is or not such a thick line between the two, because it seems like Therians I meet are very defensive about claiming they're not part of the fandom, but I myself gladly put myself in both categories. Is this not possible? [[User:Lupercaleb|Lupercaleb]] 10:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

:But of course it's possible! As Heinlein said, "Specialization is for insects." Saying that Therians can't be furries is sort of like saying if you like stamps, you can't like model railroading (or alternately, if you're Catholic, you can't like I Love Lucy reruns).----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

::You can be both, the main difference is that '''Furry''' is a choice, while '''Therianthropy''' is not something you can simply "switch on and off"

== Misleading... ==

This article could use a bit of rewriting using these facts:
*Therianthropy is NOT a choice. Therians cannot just "not be therian" and non-therians have no quick way of becoming therian either.
*Mental shifts are either Voluntary (meaning the person having them chooses to) or involuntary (meaning the person can't help it)
*Many Therians do small, unnoticeable things, such as wearing collars and such, to cope with therianthropy.
*many therians actually DO act like thier theriotype, or a least have instincts or something. unlike lifestyling, they can't choose which ones or when to have them. and if they are a predator, it can be "annoying"
*lots of Therians Role-Play. they like to play as P-shifters. Roleplayer is not commonly considered an insult/

theres a little more, and this is rough and rushed, but you get my points... anyone want to edit these in? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:Most of these are opinions, not facts. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 20:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you miss.Negative! >. .< '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== TrueFormWithin.com ==

I don't know about that last link... if Therian Temple got in trouble, this one talks about "Vampires and the occult". Maybe someone should take a look at it? thanks... {{unsigned|67.34.103.184}}
:I don't know that site specifically, but in an overview article like [[Therianthropy]] we don't have to link to every related site, only the top most relevant ones. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 03:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

:I must make a comment here.
Indeed, if everyone got so upset with the group I am associated with, this surely does not deserve a link on this article.

This is simply an "opposing" occult group to the Therian Temple, only its based online around a message board (as well as a myspace.com group), and thus has no official "membership" like the TT does.
They have gone on internet radio defaming the Therian Temple, all the while promoting their own very weird view of "Therianism", "Psychic Vampirism", and "Otherkin Occultism".

Every bit as as weird as we (Therian Temple) are, possibly weirder. Only we do not harrass members of other groups online, such as TrueFormWithin have done to Therian Temple members, as well as other members of groups they do not agree with. Hell, IMO, they are weirder than the Temple of the Vampire and their message board, and they are really weird! (Nothing against any of these groups' beliefs systems or against being weird...I'm pretty "weird" myself--but I think these articles, from what I have seen here, are supposed to be what MOST people can agree on-not representing a biased POV) If we were "too extreme" or too "debatable", this definitely fits that bill as well.
What do you all think?
Peace,

[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
~~
:I haven't had time to really look at the site... but from that main page (especially that stuff about vampires), I might say it's not a site to link... I don't want this linked. I'm tired of repeating this: I don't want radical therian groups linked from this site. this is FURRY.wikia.com. Stuff like this belongs on THERIAN.wikia.com. I discovered Therianthropy through WikiFur, I don't want others who do so to find weird shit like this. The only community I would link is WereList, as that is one of the most level headed and new-were friendly sites. If you linked Christian Therianthropy, Forest of the Unknown, WereWolf.com, or Otherkin Network I would say the same thing (none of those are both level/common and notably popular).
:I don't have anything against Therian Temple anymore, nor these guys, but it is a matter of common-sense good policy: DON'T LINK OUT-THERE/NON-MAINSTREAM SITES. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:::(oh, and a PS. note to Magus Fenrir> Vampire Temple isn't well liked and doesn't look very legitamate. but at the same time, Vampire communities are usually... ODD....)

::Well I removed it, as it seemed to be more about vampires (mostly sanguine) rathar than Wereism. The ideas about Vamoires were uncommon... somewhat a radical group... (I also noticed they called Sex-Vampires "Incubi and Succubi", That's wrong, Those are Demon-kin types, Sex-Vampires are Tantric-Vampires.) '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 16:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

== Misuse of the Term Therianthropy ==

The article takes pains to give the etymology of the term "Therianthropy," and then goes on to establish a *distinctive* section where it discusses the sub-culture use of the term.

To any educated person, the word "therianthropy" means anything that has both human and animal characteristics, very much as the etymology suggests. It's not, primarily, the name of a subculture, much like the word 'therian,' to any educated person, means NOT some subculture, but is a term that means any mammal that bears live young (as opposed to monotremes and nonmammals.)

An effort should be made in the initial section of the article to say what Therianthropy actually means, because the actual word is quite relevant to english speaking members of the fandom, and doesn't have anything necessarily to do with shapechanging or the modern subculture at all. I'm not against the subculture having its own usages, but I'm against the insular elitism of reinventing a word, in a venue that is trying to CLARIFY matters (wikifur), with no explanation.[[Furthling]]
:I've submitted a modification of the first paragraph; I trust it'll be reverted if it's unacceptable. [[Furthling]]

Therianthropy

2007-06-06T16:38:03Z

CchristianTehWazzit: TrueForm seems more about vampires... Replaced it with Therian.wikia

[[Image:TigerHologram.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hologram of a [[human]] combined with a picture of a [[tiger]] at the [[Wikipedia:MIT Museum|MIT Museum]]]]
'''Therianthropy,''' derived from the Greek ''therion'', "beast," and ''anthrōpos'', "human," refers to beings that are partly human and partly animal. It has often been used to describe depictions of mythological creatures and deities, and so has taken on a specialized meaning, sometimes shortened to "Therian," and also used to describe members of a spiritually oriented subculture.

[[Therian]]s believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to an animal (or animals). Most believe that mental and emotional shifts can occur as a result; a controversial minority extend this to the physical world.

Therianthropy is sometimes viewed as a spiritual counterpart to [[furry fandom]], which is concerned more with imagination than belief. Some [[furries]] view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while some therians view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals. However, relations are usually friendly, and therians can often be found at furry [[convention]]s and other social [[:Category:Events|events]].

==Modern subcultural use of the term==
===Beliefs and origins===

In recent times, a [[Wikipedia:Subculture|subculture]] has developed that has adopted the word ''therianthropy'' to describe a sense of intense [[furry spirituality|spiritual]] or psychological identification with a non-human animal. Members of this subculture typically refer to themselves as ''therianthropes'' or ''therians''. The word ''[[were]]'' was also common at one point, in reference to shapeshifting creatures of legend such as [[Werewolf|werewolves]], weretigers and the like, but is less common these days. One reason for the waning use of the term "were" is its growing use in the furry community to mean a more "bestial" style furry. This causes many misunderstandings between the therian and furry communities.

The [[Usenet]] group alt.horror.werewolves was founded in 1992, and in its earliest days the members discussed fictional shapeshifters. Some posters began to publicly claim that they considered themselves to be partially non-human animal. A number of these people were only joking, but enough people were serious about it that it became a trend. Others who professed the same beliefs soon joined the group. The earliest therians called themselves ''lycanthropes'', but as that word more accurately describes wolf-people, ''therianthropes'' was chosen as a more inclusive term.

Those within this subculture who identify with a spiritual understanding of this phenomenon may believe that they have the spirit or soul, in whole or in part, of a non-human animal, and their beliefs often overlap to some extent with aspects of [[Wikipedia:Shamanism|shamanism]] or [[animal totem|totemism]]. Some also draw inspiration from stories of shapeshifting in [[Wikipedia:Celtic mythology|Celtic]], [[Wikipedia:Norse mythology|Norse]] and [[Wikipedia:Native American mythology|Native American]] myths, among others. The term ''spiritual therianthropy'' is often used to differentiate this definition of therianthropy from others. However, shamanism and totemism are not an intrinsic part of therianthropy.

Those who prefer a psychological explanation may simply describe it as having a non-human animal side to their personality or nature, with some believing that it may be due to some sort of unusual neurophysiology, as is thought to be the case with syndromes like attention deficit disorder and autism. Others believe that their genes are partially non-human, but this explanation is unproven, scientifically implausible, and not favored by many. Most of those who support the explanation of atypical neuropsychology, however, do not appear to regard it as innately dysfunctional.

In either case, the identification with the non-human animal may be partial, as in those who regard themselves as having both human and non-human attributes, or complete, as in those who regard themselves as essentially non-human animals in human bodies. The terms ''species dysphoria'' and ''transspeciesism'' have occasionally been used to refer to the latter phenomenon, in parallel with the concepts of gender dysphoria and [[Wikipedia:Transsexuality|transsexuality]].

Most therians identify with a single type of non-human animal, but there are some who identify with more than one — sometimes related animals, as in several different species of [[feline]] or [[canine]], for example, but sometimes completely dissimilar animals. Those who identify with all members of one family — for instance, someone who claims to have characteristics of all felines — is called a ''cladotherianthrope''. The species of non-human animal with which a particular therian identifies is sometimes referred to as that person's ''theriotype'' or ''[[phenotype]]''. The term phenotype was originally more common but has fallen into disuse because it also refers to physical appearance.

The majority of therianthropes identify as [[feline]] or [[canine]], often big cats and wolves (see [http://archive.werelist.com/modules.php?name=Demographics&op=show_statistics&showpage=pheno1 this survey] by the Werelist), but there are also [[reptile]]s, [[bird|avians]], other mammals, and [[insects]]. Some skeptics argue that, because of the preponderance of large carnivores, most therians are only faking and are purposefully choosing impressive animals for ego-based purposes. There are also some individuals who identify with mythical species (e.g. [[dragon]]s, [[Wikipedia:Elf|elves]], [[gryphon]]s, [[centaur]]s and so forth), but they are usually categorized in the broader [[otherkin]] community rather than as therians.

Therianthropes may describe their nature as manifesting in terms of their cognitive processes, their outlook on life, their inner reactions and [[Wikipedia:Instinct|instinct]]s, their senses, or through their physical body, though claims of actual physical variations from the norm tend to be regarded with skepticism both within and outside the subculture. The human and non-human aspects of the self may co-operate or conflict, leading to happiness or unhappy dysfunction, and may take much self-discovery to begin to understand or accept. Because this is a personal perception of self, the ways in which a person describes his or her self-identification as a therianthrope vary considerably.

A controversial aspect of therianthropy is the subject of ''shifting'' (a shortened word for [[shapeshifting]]), which generally refers to any manner by which a therianthrope's nature may become evidenced internally (to themselves) or externally to others. Few people within the subculture doubt that shifts of mental and emotional perception may occur; some therianthropes also claim to experience a physical change to their appearance, an event known as ''physical shifting'' (or ''P-shifting''). Many in the therianthrope subculture doubt that physical changes actually occur; the overwhelming majority of those outside of the culture completely deny that any real physical shifting can occur.

Some of the rationally minded, skeptical therianthropes suggest that their therianthropy may be a mental or psychological condition, possibly with a spiritual or religious component. Advocates of this viewpoint can be found on the forums at Werelist.com (see below).

===Subculture===
Therianthropy as a subculture does not have any central dogma or tenets, nor any recognized authority. Those who have been around for a long time are generally listened to, though less out of any perceived spiritual authority than simple acknowledgment of experience. The word [[greymuzzle]] is often used tongue-in-cheek to describe these people.

While there is no offline social organization, there exists a [[:Category:Community|community]] of therians with many diverse outlooks on the concept, including [[Christian fur|Christian]]s, [[Wikipedia:Pagan|Pagan]]s, and [[Wikipedia:Atheism|atheist]]s. As could be expected, disagreements are frequent, and the many online [[forum]]s and [[:Category:Chat rooms|chat rooms]] of the community each have their own "atmosphere," ranging from total acceptance to scornful cynicism. There have been intermittent "real-world" gatherings, referred to as ''howls'', but their purpose is primarily social.

====Therianthropy vs. Species Dysphoria====
Therianthropy is closely related to species dysphoria, a condition similar to Gender Dysphoria in which the person has the body of a human, but the identity of an animal. Many Therians admit to having at least mild Species Dysphoria, and today, many therians believe that Species Dysphoria is simply another "symptom" of therianthropy.

====Therianthropy vs. clinical lycanthropy====
Spiritual therianthropy is not automatically the same as clinical lycanthropy, a mental illness in which an individual believes he or she belongs to or can change to another [[species]]. While some therianthropes believe they can take on the mindset of their "other side" in what is referred to as a ''mental shift'', they believe that they retain control during these transformations and are no greater danger to themselves or others. The term ''contherianthropes'' is sometimes used for those who do not claim to mentally shift but believe they have human and non-human sides which are mixed up into a single unchanging whole.

====Therianthropy and furry fandom====

Therianthropy should not be confused with the [[furry fandom]], though some intermixing of the groups does occur. As a general rule, to an extent, therianthropes are more focused on the sense of an animal within, an animal side to their nature, or spiritual concepts; by contrast, [[furry|furries]] are more commonly focused on furry [[art]] and/or [[role-playing]] related to [[anthropomorphic]] non-humans. There is some overlap with those who identify themselves with each group or view the other positively, as well as those in each group who view the other negatively. For instance, some furries view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while therianthropes may view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals.

==== Being "cured" ====
While many Therians agree that the condition interferes with normal actvity and can be annoying at times, many also agree that given a choice, they would not be "cured" and become non-therians.

==See also==
* [[Lifestylers]]
* [[Otherkin]]
* [[Therian]]
* [[Were]]
* [[Werewolf]]

==External links==
* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist]
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therianthropy Wiki]
* [http://dreamofhorn.com/therian The WereLibrary]
* [[:w:c:therian|Therian.Wikia]]

[[Category: Terms]]

{{Wikipedia|Therianthropy}}
{{featured article}}

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-06-06T16:19:20Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion */

== Therian ==
WHAT THE FUCKING SHITTY DICK-SUCKING HELL DID I SAY AT [[talk:therian]]?!?!?!? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 02:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:ok, maybe I need to calm down. But it is true, this is THERIAN and does not belong on WikiFur. It is also kind of annoying that he would post an article like this during all this drama.
:Note to said individual: Please Stop, I am rethinking my offer of a spot on Therian. Then again, I still don't believe you. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 02:59 (and 3:05), 21 April 2007 (UTC)

==Deletion?==
This article seems extremely biased and honestly I think this article has no place on wikifur, as it's promoting sales instead of providing information. If we had an article on Scientology, how would that be handled? Personally, I think this should be viewed the same way. [[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 03:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:THANK YOU. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:I think the sales pitch stuff needs to go, but the actual informative stuff could stay. Who? what? where? why? how? when? That kind of stuff. Would anyone like to rewrite the article in a professional standard?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 09:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

::The problem, I believe, with your solution Ken is actually finding someone that CAN write the article in an un-biased tone. Personally, I'm still voting (for what it's worth) for deletion.--[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 12:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

== Why is this here anyway? ==

look, this is WIKIFUR: the [[furry]] encyclopedia. about the [[furry fandom]]. An article about an unpopular group that targets therians dosn't really belong here, and is stirring up drama (mostly with me, driving me crazy >. .<). I've already said "let's move it to the therian wiki when it's up", I'm going to bed, please discuss it so I can be ready... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:I know there are distinctions to be made between the various fandoms, but there are articles related to therianthropy, were, otherkin and all sorts of other good stuff on this wiki. Because they tie in sort of, I suspect.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 09:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:The article is here because things don't always fall into neat little compartments. There's crossover between furry fandom, therians, otherkin, anime, science fiction, etc. That's reason enough to have this article here.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

== Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion ==

Removed this:
 "Members of the popular and reliable online forum "[[The Werelist]]" have commented that it only exists to con new and unsuspecting therians out of their money<ref>http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=26309&sid=65026a959bb4552b22286e09d737c8f9</ref>. Such groups are often known to prey upon new therians, especially cults, who kidnap and kill therians quite a bit. Others suggest that this is a cult meant to promote the founder's own idealogy<ref>http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1376&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15</ref>. Some false accusations suggesting that blood-drinking or other violent activities take place were primarily based upon the red and black scheme of the group's original website. (citation needed)"
 Reasons: aside from citation needed-it accuses a group of illegal activity.
If this is supposedly going on, police, NOT online wiki pages should be informed.
It is also CLEARLY an advert for the werelist, claiming itself to be "popular and reliable", neither of which claim can realistically be proven.
 There is NO documentation of this EVER happening anywhere:
"Such groups are often known to prey upon new therians, especially cults, who kidnap and kill therians quite a bit."
If any such group KILLED anyone...there would be records of this.
Lies and false accusations ARE not objective information. - {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|12:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)}}

:I have removed the recent edits that take away the NPOVness of the article, what little of it there is. However, I have let the references stay and sit. As far as The Werelist goes, by my own information, which is limited, it is one of the most heavily trafficked and comprehensive sites, as well as free, that I can find on therianthropy. So such a claim could be REASONABLY accurate. Nevertheless, I have toned down the tone. On the same token, I'd like to request you do so too. WikiFur is not a KoolAid stand. It's not a place for detailed touting of your beliefs, neither is it a place to advertise to come on over. I would suggest a massive rewrite be done by a neutral third party. For the record, according to my dictionary, a cult is defined as "a religion or sect considered to be unorthodox or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader." If the shoe fits, wear it. Frankly, I believe that any religion that "sells" its mysteries for easy payments, call now, to be bumpkus. This includes TV evangelists, before you start citing them. Religion and faith and knowledge should be freely available to the masses. No charge. But that is my own personal opinion and addendum and has nothing related to my administration here, as I am required to take a neutral stance here in my duties. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

::I'd just like to note that the small edits I made were taken directly from information I found on the Therian Temple page itself. Hardly slander if they say it about themselves, aye? [[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 18:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Mr. Cocksucker, No one said that "Therian" Temple Kidnapped or Killed anyone. I made a point that many of the insane accusations were false. The citation however, was for the bits about some of them, like drinking blood. IF you were a Therian (which you are NOT.) you would know that cults often DO prey upon Therians, kidnapping them to be "oracles" and such, or sacrifices. Please stop slandering the title of therian, as it is truly offensive to REAL Therians. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding: "Mr. Cocksucker, No one said that "Therian" Temple Kidnapped or Killed anyone. I made a point that many of the insane accusations were false. The citation however, was for the bits about some of them, like drinking blood. IF you were a Therian (which you are NOT.) you would know that cults often DO prey upon Therians, kidnapping them to be "oracles" and such, or sacrifices. Please stop slandering the title of therian, as it is truly offensive to REAL Therians. - cchristian talk"---
 Please give an example of ANY "cult" that has ever kidnapped or harmed a Therian, or that drinks blood. Are there police reports? News articles? ANY proof of something like this EVER happening? Please provide links. If you cannot do so, please stop making up fairytales...also, considering that I myself am gay, what is wrong with being a "cocksucker"? Is that supposed to be an insult?~tolerant- {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|12:47 (and 12:49), 27 April 2007 (UTC)}}

:If you are going to become insulted by my rash insult, I guess I should note: I DRINK BLOOD. I am very annoyed at the fact that you would say that you were accused of "drinking blood" as if it was something bad, or that [[Vampire-Kin]] Do not do it, as well as some therians. please do NOT attempt to shake relations between the Therians and the Vampires as we are already having difficulty with recent hollywood type media talking about a "War" between our two groups. We are not discussing Vampires, and your attempts to shake relations are pathetic.
:As for the cult business; Therian Temple is considered by those who do a little looking to be nothing more than a scam. No reasonable were will make a strong claim that Therian Temple does anything remotely like what cults have been known to do. As for cults harming therians, many cults harm therians, that is a fact. you would not understand this, as you are not a therian.
:What I can see you are doing here is a very common cult trick of muddying the waters with this sort of "he accused me of murder! that's a lie! he's bad!" in order to try and gain footing against an opponent when your own home-ground, frankly, Sucks. I am sorry that so far I have not been reasonable, I will stop. I am perfectly willing to talk honestly, peacefully, civilly, and respectfully if you will do the same. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 05:37 (and 05:51), 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::Ok, sir, again you have shown NO PROOF of ANY "cult" EVER harming ANY therian.
::Where is even an article about this??-please enlighten me here...
::Chances are, you are just making it up, or going on rumours in your own social circle. Also-how do you define "cult"-anything not big enough to have its own building??
::Secondly, what is the "scam" involved with Therian Temple? Again you have NO PROOF.
::What type of scam* do you mean-we don't make any promises to anyone, as it states right on our site, so how could it be a scam??-people order the book, we have it printed and shipped,they read it and use it- wherein this "scam" you keep talking about??
::Thirdly, the only legally recognized Vampire religion, the Temple of the Vampire says right on their site that physical blood drinking is not allowed-so whoever drinks blood, does it of their own volition as an independent act, not part of any organized "vampire" group.
::Also, I have never heard of ANY therians, except YOU right now, who think drinking blood is OK, or who would claim to do it, or that Therians do it.
::Fourthly, there is not and never has been any "war" between vampires and therians, nor should there be.
::Calm down.
::Lastly, I myself am a Wolf Therian, for your information.
::Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ 19:28 (to 19:32), 19 May 2007 (UTC)

:Once again, you have COMPLETELY ignored what I said: CULTS KILLING/KIDNAPPING THERIANS IS NOT RELEVANT, No one has ever made a serious claim of Therian Temple doing this. I will not discuss this in relation to Therian Temple, as it is not related as Therian Temple DOES NOT kill/kidnap therians and is not being accused of it.
:Also, It is good that we both agree that there has never been, and never will be a war between the Vampires and Therians. I was simply becoming annoyed at the fact that you make the claim that you have been accused of "Drinking Blood" as if it is such a bad thing. (I would also like to note that, most vampires do not drink blood, and may also feed off of sadness, sexual energy, pain, and thought. the ones who DO drink blood, either take a small amount from willing donors or from raw steak. I drink blood from raw steak, as it's not wholesome to consume human blood.)
:While, as I said, it is not common to drink blood, I am sure that there are were-vampire bats and such who have a desire and , seeing as there is nothing wrong with it, give in to the urge to drink blood. Many therians (wolves, foxes, and big-cats namely) have also noted that while they do feel sorry for the dead animal, in a spiritual way, they also have the urge to eat roadkill. They of course, don't give in to this, but still have it the same.
:also, I am aware of, yet do not care about, the Vampire Temple (which I actually heard of just after I made my last statement, and is supposedly part of the same scam as Therian Temple) is not a commonly accepted group within the vampire culture, and all the same, Isee them as having as much authority/relevance as Therian Temple. I would also note that it is NOT the only Vampire related religion.
:I would discuss why I continuously say "Scam" with you, but I am currently making such large responses to your pointless and irrelevant arguments, that I am not going to say what would make my response twice as large.
:I am also very confused as to why there would be a "Therian Religion" as you say, as Therianthropy in itself has little to do with Theology, and has nothing about gods, magic, holy powers, prayer, etc. I am MonoTheistic, Conservative-Jewish, I have no problem with being Jewish AND Therian at the same time.
:As to your claimed "therianthropy", I seriously doubt that you are a therian. can you explain anything regarding it? Therianthropy is not just some religion, you do not simply take the "oath of Therion" (which I still don't understand what it is supposed to be... Therion is a Wolf constellation...). Therianthropy is a random Mental/Spiritual condition, it is not easy to change whether or not someone is one, if it's possible at all... but if you are going to continue to make this claim, I guess that I will leave it at this statement.
:still waiting to directly discuss the situation at hand, '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 21:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

::There is nothing at all wrong with being Therian & Jewish at once.
::However, If you drink blood, you are breaking the rules of Judaism, which you claim to follow, and reinforcing anti-Semitic blood libel.
::For your information the word "Therion" is Latin for "Beast".::
::It is where the word "Therianthropy" comes from.
::The Latin world was only used later to name a constellation.
::You have never met me, and I do not care if some hyberbolic blood drinker online who may or may not even be serious thinks I'm not Therian, when I live my life as a Therian everyday.
::Also, you clearly stated that you "can't understand" some of what I'm talking about, and this is obviously the entire issue.
::You simply are not capable of understanding simple things which are explained in plain text: all the issues you bring up are addressed in the Therian Temple's FAQ page, including the idea of Therianthropy as a religion (as it states on our site, MANY of our members do not consider it a religion-not every magical practice is a religion), the meat issue(we are not all full-time vegetarians, if you would read our site, you'd know this).
::Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ (comment signed, but edit from anon ip){{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|16:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

:::I am quite offended by the way you talk about Judaism. Top correct what you said: Drinking blood is not "against the rules", it is simply Not Kosher. I do not eat kosher except on Shabbat. I also do not drink the blood of human infants, I have NEVER consumed human blood, and, as my blood drinking is NOT a Judaism issue, I see it as unrelated. Please DO NOT PRACTICE INTOLERANCE IN A SIMPLE DEBATE.
:::I was aware of the origins of the word Therianthropy. What I do not understand is WHY you are making up such things to make it sound more extravagant.
:::as far as I know, I am not "Hyperbolic". I do not have Sine, Cosine, Tangent, etc. I don't know what you meant to say, but it sounds like you are calling me Anemic or something??? Doesn't matter. My personal habits are not being discussed here. I still do not believe you are a therian, I'm not even sure if you think you are, and at this rate, you will never be able to prove it to me. It does not matter right now, Let's get on with the actual discussion.
:::You are correct. I do not understand, and I will not if you continue to act this way. but I am getting a good picture at your so-called "therian beliefs"... but I did take a look at your site a few months ago when the link was first deleted, and I did not like what I saw. I do not see why you keep it so secretive, why, if you believe it to be right, you do not share it with others, and if it is worth-while, they would buy the $30 book.
:::the meat issue doesn't matter right now, I'm sorry I brought it up, we should drop it as we are not discussing such right now.
:::as for this "Therian Magic", I would have to see what you are talking about.
:::I'd REALLY like to start talking about the matter at hand. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 18:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

:
"Hyberbolic" is the adjective to describe someone using such hyperbole as your own.
 hy·per·bo·le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
[Latin hyperbol, from Greek huperbol, excess, from huperballein, to exceed : huper, beyond; see hyper- + ballein, to throw; see gwel- in Indo-European roots.]
 Ok, so you have made clear that you do not eat only Kosher.
At least you cleared up that you do not drink HUMAN blood, which you have not stated previously.
The point is, none of the Jewish people I know, including family members, would ever approve of drinking blood.
But, dont you dare call ME intolerant when your apparent entire goal is to try and diminish the name and worth of the system of belief to which I adhere.
Also, I doubted that you were a Therian from the first post I read by you, because you are so closed-minded and intolerant of other peoples beliefs outside your own.
You seem to think anyone who disagrees with you is simply WRONG, and should be silenced, or at least ostracized. Unfair.
 Lastly...there is NOTHING "secretive" about the Therian Temple, aside from the fact that we do not disclose our members personal information.
Everything we believe in and practice is readily available:our basic tenets are on the site, rumours & questions are answered in our FAQ page, and ANYONE can buy the book and read it WITHOUT becoming a member, which, again, if you took the time to read through or site, you would already know.
Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ (comment signed, but edit from anon ip) {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|18:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

:This has to be the stupidest conversation I've ever read. First we had someone talking about a junk edit (fair enough), which was quickly followed by cchristianTehWazzit's paranoid rantings about cults supposedly kidnapping/killing therians. And if that wasn't enough, the conversation then moves to hollywood type media" supposedly suggesting a war between Otherkin and Therians. I can't remember what that movie was called, but you should really quit taking the movies so seriously IMO. And finally we have a pair of "weres" arguing over who is a real therian and who isn't...
: For your own sake I truely hope anyone involved with this conversation was jokeing.
: And the stupidest part? I was able to post this without having to create a sockpuppet account. :{{unsigned|LOL!!fursecution!!LOL}} 17:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

::(note that I though to say this before I read Smark's comment... YOU HEAR ME??? YOU DIDN'T AFFECT ME YOU LITTLE ************!!!!1!11!)
::Sorry it took me so long to respond... I was busy with other stuff...
This entire argument is pointless. It has nothing to do with the matter at hand. We shouldn't be continuing with a set of arguments completely unrelated to the matter at hand. so whatever. Sooner or later we have to agree on something, and I'm going to stop with the bullshit and try and get this back to a discussion instead of a pointless argument about nothing.
Here is a list of things we probably agree on:
* Therian and Furry aren't the same. this article really doesn't belong on WikiFur.
* Newly Discovered Therians really don't need to see this. Stuff like this is only for long-time serious therians. as you yourself said, you don't want people who are "just looking", you want Therians who know what they are doing.
* Therian Temple is not very well respected in the community. We can agree on this I'm sure. Maybe the things said about it aren't always true, but most people don't like it.
* This IS important. Therian Temple IS note worthy. I know about it, Werelist knows about it, "Codeine's Mum" may even know about it. We can't say it's nothing, no matter how many/few members it has, most have heard of it.
* The Criticisms section is bullshit. Anyone who thinks that Therian Temple members drink blood has been stuffing something up their nose. Nobody worth asking seriously thinks that and there's no real reason to say it.
* It doesn't matter who is/isn't a therian or what we do personally. Arguing about that is stupid and irrelevant.
* Therian Temple is not an insane Cult and is not going to hurt anyone. I think the entire thing is crap if you ask me, but on review, I guess it MAY be about as legitimate as alot of the weird stuff I see on some Otherkin boards (I don't know, I can't know, I don't own a copy of the "Therian Bible") I don't think it is, but if people follow it, [[uncyclopedia:Nobody_cares|who cares]]...
I'm pretty sure we can both agree on that, so we need to stop debating what is blatantly BullShit and think up a compromise.
:Here is what I think is fair and what we should do:
* This article should be deleted from WikiFur. - It has NOTHING to do with Furry and is just causing anti WikiFur drama within the community.
* We will make a new article at Therianthropy.wikia.com - It DOES belong there. I would LOVE to see it there, it has so much relevance.
* The article should be factual. Not full of bias (that goes either way). It shouldn't be the FAQ page for Therian Temple, and it shouldn't be completely Negative.
* The entire debate over whether or not Therian Temple is [insert something extreme here] should end. starting here. It's a stupid debate that can never end. so there. The End.
How is that? I can agree to all of that (don't like some of it, but I'm happy to agree with all of it) Do you like it? any changes? or are we settled?
'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:Alright-making some sense here now.
I agree arguing over fine points was getting ridiculous, this is why I hadn't even come back to this page in a while....
I think the article initially ended up here because my roommate Jon, (a furry) frequents this site and found an article on Therians so he thought he should put an article on Therian Temple, then some other people started editing it, yadda yadda...
So,fee free to put a new one on the Therian Wiki you mentioned..
Peace to you all,
Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~

:yeah. So we should get them to delete this one? it sounds like we both agree... You may want to edit it though, I put it at [[:w:c:therian:Therian_Temple]]. I would hope that you would actually edit the wiki, as we need some more people to get some articles... (and I don't understand terms well enough to write detailed articles on anything more complex than shoelaces... ^.^;;)
:'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Ask me. ==

Ok-My roommate, a furry, not therian,(who made the post above) directed me here.
He has been watching this-I think he calls himself "Tolerant1" online.
There is clearly some amount of confusion going on about this article/topic.

Due to possible conflict of interest, I will not personally edit this article, however:
If there is reliable information needed about the Therian Temple, please go straight to the source and email me: ordovirbestia@theriantemple.com

For the record:
One thing can be certain: no TT member has ever committed a crime.
If any member was ever to do so, they would have their membership immediately revoked (we don't even allow illegal drug use).
Stating in an online resource that we are involved in ANY criminal activity is in fact a legal issue of libel / slander (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) and legal action WILL be taken against any people making such false claims.

Peace to you all.
Magus Fenrir Therion,
Therian Temple
[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
~~ 12:33 (to 12:47), 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:RULE No. 1 - No threatening legal action. *laughs at a cocksucker* '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

::Rule #2. [[WikiFur:No personal attacks|No personal attacks.]] The "cocksucker" remarks are WAY out of line. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 14:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

:::The user has already been reprimanded for this and has served a suspension from WikiFur. But thanks for reminding us of the rule here. Very important.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 18:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

== Recent edit? ==
I reverted the recent edit because it seemed a little fishy...any more knowledgeable persons wish to help with the accuracy of [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Therian_Temple&curid=25908&diff=137234&oldid=133832 the edit]? [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

:yeah, that's not true. NO ONE has EVER accused them of ''Drinking Blood'', and if they did, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I drink blood. Therian Temple is generally regarded as a Scam more than "''dangerous''" or "''illegal''", so many of those claims of being accused of such are false and/or misleading. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-06-06T16:17:12Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* TrueFormWithin.com */

{{Featured}}
----
Is it just me, or do Therians have a huge fucking ego at times? --[[User:Mix|Mix]]

:Many sentient beings have big egos, doubtless including some therians. I haven't met many myself; the one I know best may have a big ego, but if so they don't show it all that much.

:The marriage between the [[furry fandom]] and those of a therianthropic nature is not an easy one. There is a certain level of conscious individualism required for those who wish to avoid getting sucked into the catchall categorization of "furry", and if this isn't expressed well it's likely to result in people viewing that as a "big ego", even if the individual concerned just wants to avoid being lumped in with everyone else. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

::I have an ego? no, it's just that Dragons are better than all other species, that's all. I don't know what you are talking about, unless you mean comments like "I'm a were wolf and you have to try it" as if they assume that everyone else is a therian. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Reversion ==

I don't even understand what this is supposed to say, apart from the copyediting problems:

: '' however, some therians have been known to lose control and "go feral", a stage in which they become clinical lycanthropes. they may exhibit behavior such as uncontrollable mental shifting and personality changes. this is usually the result of not being able to the pain any loger and neglecting the techniques, or losing control during a Lycanthopic Mental shift (an extreme type mental shift where the preformer "becomes an animal").''

This information neeeds some review. It seems overly generalized, and I question whether therians who "lose control" really do "become" clinical lycanthropes if they weren't before. The references to "pain" and "techniques" don't refer to anything mentioned earlier in the article, and I don't know what a "preformer" is or in what sense it becomes an animal. The changes aren't helpful to this article. What are you trying to say here, and can you say it better? --[[User:Lynn Onyx|Lynn Onyx]] 03:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

:some wolf told it to me... I was lazy, and copy pasted him. ^. .^;; '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Self serving? ==

This:
* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist] - A popular resource that encourages critical thinking and a rational adult perspective on therianthropy

Seems more like an advertisement for this website than an objective listing.
Should the description be removed??-{{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:Perhaps, or altered, if untrue. ''Is'' it a popular resource? ''Does'' it encourage such things? I am not in a position to judge, myself. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

::well, Werelist is a therian site that I use. It's safe, trustworthy, friendly, and POPULAR. so... yeah... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Therianthropy "Experts"? ==

What / who really defines what/who is or isn't "knowledgeable" about Therianthropy?
I see things being edited like-"This is not a reliable source" or "Refer to a knowledgeable source"...a LOT here...
Within a subculture that has only recently barely scratched the surface of all the many different possibilities and ideas/beliefs involving Therianism, who is to judge?
Just because someone has a message board are they a 'reliable Source'?
If Mr. X has had a website longer than Mr. Z, is he somehow considered more "knowledgeable"?
What s the criteria here?
Popularity?
Is this objective documentation going on here?
Or is it a bunch of people competing to promote their friends' and their own websites?
I'm asking seriously here...........
~tolerant one-{{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:well, therianthropy is a mutch less close knit group than furry. But, if you give me specifics then I might be able to clarify... o. .o;; '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

::I can come back on this now. There are many Therians who have devoted time to study Therianthropy and for theories. some examples are '''Wolf VanZandt''' and '''Savage''' Tornclaw. another way to check facts is asking on a site like [[The Werelist]] or ''The Forest of the unknown'' or any other respectable and level headed therian site. the people who '''Don't''' know are people who claim to have "special insight" and usually form cults that teach what they claim is the "one true way to be a therian", which is preposterous, seeing as Therianthropy is a condition and you can't be something you aren't by simply joining a group and you aren't less of something simply because you aren't part of that group. I hope that clarifies it all! >. .O '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Therian Temple ==

I'm pretty sure we removed that link earlier after a bit of drama with [[therian]]. DO NOT put it back. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:This seems to be quite a bit of heated debate. I'm going to leave the edit be for now, but if it becomes an edit war, I will lock down this article. Play nice, everybody. There seems to be a strong consensus of Therians I know that do not wish this part of the article, but as it is a matter of record, the article stays put. We can't just cover our eyes and pretend what we don't like doesn't exist. I'd like to know what other people think though.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 01:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
::I do not believe "Therian Temple" should be a part of this article. The information they have on their website is misleading. Every therian I know does not wish to be associated with them.--[[User:Xainy|Xainy]]

== Therian and Furry ==

Is it possible to consider oneself a member of both the Therianthropy community and of the furry fandom? I'd love to know if there really is or not such a thick line between the two, because it seems like Therians I meet are very defensive about claiming they're not part of the fandom, but I myself gladly put myself in both categories. Is this not possible? [[User:Lupercaleb|Lupercaleb]] 10:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

:But of course it's possible! As Heinlein said, "Specialization is for insects." Saying that Therians can't be furries is sort of like saying if you like stamps, you can't like model railroading (or alternately, if you're Catholic, you can't like I Love Lucy reruns).----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

::You can be both, the main difference is that '''Furry''' is a choice, while '''Therianthropy''' is not something you can simply "switch on and off"

== Misleading... ==

This article could use a bit of rewriting using these facts:
*Therianthropy is NOT a choice. Therians cannot just "not be therian" and non-therians have no quick way of becoming therian either.
*Mental shifts are either Voluntary (meaning the person having them chooses to) or involuntary (meaning the person can't help it)
*Many Therians do small, unnoticeable things, such as wearing collars and such, to cope with therianthropy.
*many therians actually DO act like thier theriotype, or a least have instincts or something. unlike lifestyling, they can't choose which ones or when to have them. and if they are a predator, it can be "annoying"
*lots of Therians Role-Play. they like to play as P-shifters. Roleplayer is not commonly considered an insult/

theres a little more, and this is rough and rushed, but you get my points... anyone want to edit these in? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:Most of these are opinions, not facts. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 20:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you miss.Negative! >. .< '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== TrueFormWithin.com ==

I don't know about that last link... if Therian Temple got in trouble, this one talks about "Vampires and the occult". Maybe someone should take a look at it? thanks... {{unsigned|67.34.103.184}}
:I don't know that site specifically, but in an overview article like [[Therianthropy]] we don't have to link to every related site, only the top most relevant ones. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 03:47, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

:I must make a comment here.
Indeed, if everyone got so upset with the group I am associated with, this surely does not deserve a link on this article.

This is simply an "opposing" occult group to the Therian Temple, only its based online around a message board (as well as a myspace.com group), and thus has no official "membership" like the TT does.
They have gone on internet radio defaming the Therian Temple, all the while promoting their own very weird view of "Therianism", "Psychic Vampirism", and "Otherkin Occultism".

Every bit as as weird as we (Therian Temple) are, possibly weirder. Only we do not harrass members of other groups online, such as TrueFormWithin have done to Therian Temple members, as well as other members of groups they do not agree with. Hell, IMO, they are weirder than the Temple of the Vampire and their message board, and they are really weird! (Nothing against any of these groups' beliefs systems or against being weird...I'm pretty "weird" myself--but I think these articles, from what I have seen here, are supposed to be what MOST people can agree on-not representing a biased POV) If we were "too extreme" or too "debatable", this definitely fits that bill as well.
What do you all think?
Peace,

[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
~~
:I haven't had time to really look at the site... but from that main page (especially that stuff about vampires), I might say it's not a site to link... I don't want this linked. I'm tired of repeating this: I don't want radical therian groups linked from this site. this is FURRY.wikia.com. Stuff like this belongs on THERIAN.wikia.com. I discovered Therianthropy through WikiFur, I don't want others who do so to find weird shit like this. The only community I would link is WereList, as that is one of the most level headed and new-were friendly sites. If you linked Christian Therianthropy, Forest of the Unknown, WereWolf.com, or Otherkin Network I would say the same thing (none of those are both level/common and notably popular).
:I don't have anything against Therian Temple anymore, nor these guys, but it is a matter of common-sense good policy: DON'T LINK OUT-THERE/NON-MAINSTREAM SITES. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:::(oh, and a PS. note to Magus Fenrir> Vampire Temple isn't well liked and doesn't look very legitamate. but at the same time, Vampire communities are usually... ODD....)

== Misuse of the Term Therianthropy ==

The article takes pains to give the etymology of the term "Therianthropy," and then goes on to establish a *distinctive* section where it discusses the sub-culture use of the term.

To any educated person, the word "therianthropy" means anything that has both human and animal characteristics, very much as the etymology suggests. It's not, primarily, the name of a subculture, much like the word 'therian,' to any educated person, means NOT some subculture, but is a term that means any mammal that bears live young (as opposed to monotremes and nonmammals.)

An effort should be made in the initial section of the article to say what Therianthropy actually means, because the actual word is quite relevant to english speaking members of the fandom, and doesn't have anything necessarily to do with shapechanging or the modern subculture at all. I'm not against the subculture having its own usages, but I'm against the insular elitism of reinventing a word, in a venue that is trying to CLARIFY matters (wikifur), with no explanation.[[Furthling]]
:I've submitted a modification of the first paragraph; I trust it'll be reverted if it's unacceptable. [[Furthling]]

User talk:MagusFenrir

2007-05-29T22:10:46Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Hi, sorry. I'm done arguing.

*Ahem*. Sorry I took so long, and sorry I havn't been reasonable. I'm going to stop with the contest about "who is the bigger asshole". I've posted something on the talk page for you to read. No more stupid debates about vegetarianism, the reasonableness of $30 for a book, etc. I need your input.

Sorry again, '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-05-29T22:07:48Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Ending bullshit argument (sorry I dragged it out)

== Therian ==
WHAT THE FUCKING SHITTY DICK-SUCKING HELL DID I SAY AT [[talk:therian]]?!?!?!? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 02:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:ok, maybe I need to calm down. But it is true, this is THERIAN and does not belong on WikiFur. It is also kind of annoying that he would post an article like this during all this drama.
:Note to said individual: Please Stop, I am rethinking my offer of a spot on Therian. Then again, I still don't believe you. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 02:59 (and 3:05), 21 April 2007 (UTC)

==Deletion?==
This article seems extremely biased and honestly I think this article has no place on wikifur, as it's promoting sales instead of providing information. If we had an article on Scientology, how would that be handled? Personally, I think this should be viewed the same way. [[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 03:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:THANK YOU. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:I think the sales pitch stuff needs to go, but the actual informative stuff could stay. Who? what? where? why? how? when? That kind of stuff. Would anyone like to rewrite the article in a professional standard?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 09:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

::The problem, I believe, with your solution Ken is actually finding someone that CAN write the article in an un-biased tone. Personally, I'm still voting (for what it's worth) for deletion.--[[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 12:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

== Why is this here anyway? ==

look, this is WIKIFUR: the [[furry]] encyclopedia. about the [[furry fandom]]. An article about an unpopular group that targets therians dosn't really belong here, and is stirring up drama (mostly with me, driving me crazy >. .<). I've already said "let's move it to the therian wiki when it's up", I'm going to bed, please discuss it so I can be ready... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:I know there are distinctions to be made between the various fandoms, but there are articles related to therianthropy, were, otherkin and all sorts of other good stuff on this wiki. Because they tie in sort of, I suspect.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 09:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:The article is here because things don't always fall into neat little compartments. There's crossover between furry fandom, therians, otherkin, anime, science fiction, etc. That's reason enough to have this article here.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 12:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

== Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion ==

Removed this:
 "Members of the popular and reliable online forum "[[The Werelist]]" have commented that it only exists to con new and unsuspecting therians out of their money<ref>http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=26309&sid=65026a959bb4552b22286e09d737c8f9</ref>. Such groups are often known to prey upon new therians, especially cults, who kidnap and kill therians quite a bit. Others suggest that this is a cult meant to promote the founder's own idealogy<ref>http://www.werelist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1376&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15</ref>. Some false accusations suggesting that blood-drinking or other violent activities take place were primarily based upon the red and black scheme of the group's original website. (citation needed)"
 Reasons: aside from citation needed-it accuses a group of illegal activity.
If this is supposedly going on, police, NOT online wiki pages should be informed.
It is also CLEARLY an advert for the werelist, claiming itself to be "popular and reliable", neither of which claim can realistically be proven.
 There is NO documentation of this EVER happening anywhere:
"Such groups are often known to prey upon new therians, especially cults, who kidnap and kill therians quite a bit."
If any such group KILLED anyone...there would be records of this.
Lies and false accusations ARE not objective information. - {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|12:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)}}

:I have removed the recent edits that take away the NPOVness of the article, what little of it there is. However, I have let the references stay and sit. As far as The Werelist goes, by my own information, which is limited, it is one of the most heavily trafficked and comprehensive sites, as well as free, that I can find on therianthropy. So such a claim could be REASONABLY accurate. Nevertheless, I have toned down the tone. On the same token, I'd like to request you do so too. WikiFur is not a KoolAid stand. It's not a place for detailed touting of your beliefs, neither is it a place to advertise to come on over. I would suggest a massive rewrite be done by a neutral third party. For the record, according to my dictionary, a cult is defined as "a religion or sect considered to be unorthodox or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader." If the shoe fits, wear it. Frankly, I believe that any religion that "sells" its mysteries for easy payments, call now, to be bumpkus. This includes TV evangelists, before you start citing them. Religion and faith and knowledge should be freely available to the masses. No charge. But that is my own personal opinion and addendum and has nothing related to my administration here, as I am required to take a neutral stance here in my duties. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

::I'd just like to note that the small edits I made were taken directly from information I found on the Therian Temple page itself. Hardly slander if they say it about themselves, aye? [[User:Banrai|Banrai]] 18:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Mr. Cocksucker, No one said that "Therian" Temple Kidnapped or Killed anyone. I made a point that many of the insane accusations were false. The citation however, was for the bits about some of them, like drinking blood. IF you were a Therian (which you are NOT.) you would know that cults often DO prey upon Therians, kidnapping them to be "oracles" and such, or sacrifices. Please stop slandering the title of therian, as it is truly offensive to REAL Therians. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding: "Mr. Cocksucker, No one said that "Therian" Temple Kidnapped or Killed anyone. I made a point that many of the insane accusations were false. The citation however, was for the bits about some of them, like drinking blood. IF you were a Therian (which you are NOT.) you would know that cults often DO prey upon Therians, kidnapping them to be "oracles" and such, or sacrifices. Please stop slandering the title of therian, as it is truly offensive to REAL Therians. - cchristian talk"---
 Please give an example of ANY "cult" that has ever kidnapped or harmed a Therian, or that drinks blood. Are there police reports? News articles? ANY proof of something like this EVER happening? Please provide links. If you cannot do so, please stop making up fairytales...also, considering that I myself am gay, what is wrong with being a "cocksucker"? Is that supposed to be an insult?~tolerant- {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|12:47 (and 12:49), 27 April 2007 (UTC)}}

:If you are going to become insulted by my rash insult, I guess I should note: I DRINK BLOOD. I am very annoyed at the fact that you would say that you were accused of "drinking blood" as if it was something bad, or that [[Vampire-Kin]] Do not do it, as well as some therians. please do NOT attempt to shake relations between the Therians and the Vampires as we are already having difficulty with recent hollywood type media talking about a "War" between our two groups. We are not discussing Vampires, and your attempts to shake relations are pathetic.
:As for the cult business; Therian Temple is considered by those who do a little looking to be nothing more than a scam. No reasonable were will make a strong claim that Therian Temple does anything remotely like what cults have been known to do. As for cults harming therians, many cults harm therians, that is a fact. you would not understand this, as you are not a therian.
:What I can see you are doing here is a very common cult trick of muddying the waters with this sort of "he accused me of murder! that's a lie! he's bad!" in order to try and gain footing against an opponent when your own home-ground, frankly, Sucks. I am sorry that so far I have not been reasonable, I will stop. I am perfectly willing to talk honestly, peacefully, civilly, and respectfully if you will do the same. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 05:37 (and 05:51), 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::Ok, sir, again you have shown NO PROOF of ANY "cult" EVER harming ANY therian.
::Where is even an article about this??-please enlighten me here...
::Chances are, you are just making it up, or going on rumours in your own social circle. Also-how do you define "cult"-anything not big enough to have its own building??
::Secondly, what is the "scam" involved with Therian Temple? Again you have NO PROOF.
::What type of scam* do you mean-we don't make any promises to anyone, as it states right on our site, so how could it be a scam??-people order the book, we have it printed and shipped,they read it and use it- wherein this "scam" you keep talking about??
::Thirdly, the only legally recognized Vampire religion, the Temple of the Vampire says right on their site that physical blood drinking is not allowed-so whoever drinks blood, does it of their own volition as an independent act, not part of any organized "vampire" group.
::Also, I have never heard of ANY therians, except YOU right now, who think drinking blood is OK, or who would claim to do it, or that Therians do it.
::Fourthly, there is not and never has been any "war" between vampires and therians, nor should there be.
::Calm down.
::Lastly, I myself am a Wolf Therian, for your information.
::Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ 19:28 (to 19:32), 19 May 2007 (UTC)

:Once again, you have COMPLETELY ignored what I said: CULTS KILLING/KIDNAPPING THERIANS IS NOT RELEVANT, No one has ever made a serious claim of Therian Temple doing this. I will not discuss this in relation to Therian Temple, as it is not related as Therian Temple DOES NOT kill/kidnap therians and is not being accused of it.
:Also, It is good that we both agree that there has never been, and never will be a war between the Vampires and Therians. I was simply becoming annoyed at the fact that you make the claim that you have been accused of "Drinking Blood" as if it is such a bad thing. (I would also like to note that, most vampires do not drink blood, and may also feed off of sadness, sexual energy, pain, and thought. the ones who DO drink blood, either take a small amount from willing donors or from raw steak. I drink blood from raw steak, as it's not wholesome to consume human blood.)
:While, as I said, it is not common to drink blood, I am sure that there are were-vampire bats and such who have a desire and , seeing as there is nothing wrong with it, give in to the urge to drink blood. Many therians (wolves, foxes, and big-cats namely) have also noted that while they do feel sorry for the dead animal, in a spiritual way, they also have the urge to eat roadkill. They of course, don't give in to this, but still have it the same.
:also, I am aware of, yet do not care about, the Vampire Temple (which I actually heard of just after I made my last statement, and is supposedly part of the same scam as Therian Temple) is not a commonly accepted group within the vampire culture, and all the same, Isee them as having as much authority/relevance as Therian Temple. I would also note that it is NOT the only Vampire related religion.
:I would discuss why I continuously say "Scam" with you, but I am currently making such large responses to your pointless and irrelevant arguments, that I am not going to say what would make my response twice as large.
:I am also very confused as to why there would be a "Therian Religion" as you say, as Therianthropy in itself has little to do with Theology, and has nothing about gods, magic, holy powers, prayer, etc. I am MonoTheistic, Conservative-Jewish, I have no problem with being Jewish AND Therian at the same time.
:As to your claimed "therianthropy", I seriously doubt that you are a therian. can you explain anything regarding it? Therianthropy is not just some religion, you do not simply take the "oath of Therion" (which I still don't understand what it is supposed to be... Therion is a Wolf constellation...). Therianthropy is a random Mental/Spiritual condition, it is not easy to change whether or not someone is one, if it's possible at all... but if you are going to continue to make this claim, I guess that I will leave it at this statement.
:still waiting to directly discuss the situation at hand, '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 21:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

::There is nothing at all wrong with being Therian & Jewish at once.
::However, If you drink blood, you are breaking the rules of Judaism, which you claim to follow, and reinforcing anti-Semitic blood libel.
::For your information the word "Therion" is Latin for "Beast".::
::It is where the word "Therianthropy" comes from.
::The Latin world was only used later to name a constellation.
::You have never met me, and I do not care if some hyberbolic blood drinker online who may or may not even be serious thinks I'm not Therian, when I live my life as a Therian everyday.
::Also, you clearly stated that you "can't understand" some of what I'm talking about, and this is obviously the entire issue.
::You simply are not capable of understanding simple things which are explained in plain text: all the issues you bring up are addressed in the Therian Temple's FAQ page, including the idea of Therianthropy as a religion (as it states on our site, MANY of our members do not consider it a religion-not every magical practice is a religion), the meat issue(we are not all full-time vegetarians, if you would read our site, you'd know this).
::Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ (comment signed, but edit from anon ip){{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|16:32, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

:::I am quite offended by the way you talk about Judaism. Top correct what you said: Drinking blood is not "against the rules", it is simply Not Kosher. I do not eat kosher except on Shabbat. I also do not drink the blood of human infants, I have NEVER consumed human blood, and, as my blood drinking is NOT a Judaism issue, I see it as unrelated. Please DO NOT PRACTICE INTOLERANCE IN A SIMPLE DEBATE.
:::I was aware of the origins of the word Therianthropy. What I do not understand is WHY you are making up such things to make it sound more extravagant.
:::as far as I know, I am not "Hyperbolic". I do not have Sine, Cosine, Tangent, etc. I don't know what you meant to say, but it sounds like you are calling me Anemic or something??? Doesn't matter. My personal habits are not being discussed here. I still do not believe you are a therian, I'm not even sure if you think you are, and at this rate, you will never be able to prove it to me. It does not matter right now, Let's get on with the actual discussion.
:::You are correct. I do not understand, and I will not if you continue to act this way. but I am getting a good picture at your so-called "therian beliefs"... but I did take a look at your site a few months ago when the link was first deleted, and I did not like what I saw. I do not see why you keep it so secretive, why, if you believe it to be right, you do not share it with others, and if it is worth-while, they would buy the $30 book.
:::the meat issue doesn't matter right now, I'm sorry I brought it up, we should drop it as we are not discussing such right now.
:::as for this "Therian Magic", I would have to see what you are talking about.
:::I'd REALLY like to start talking about the matter at hand. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 18:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

:
"Hyberbolic" is the adjective to describe someone using such hyperbole as your own.
 hy·per·bo·le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
[Latin hyperbol, from Greek huperbol, excess, from huperballein, to exceed : huper, beyond; see hyper- + ballein, to throw; see gwel- in Indo-European roots.]
 Ok, so you have made clear that you do not eat only Kosher.
At least you cleared up that you do not drink HUMAN blood, which you have not stated previously.
The point is, none of the Jewish people I know, including family members, would ever approve of drinking blood.
But, dont you dare call ME intolerant when your apparent entire goal is to try and diminish the name and worth of the system of belief to which I adhere.
Also, I doubted that you were a Therian from the first post I read by you, because you are so closed-minded and intolerant of other peoples beliefs outside your own.
You seem to think anyone who disagrees with you is simply WRONG, and should be silenced, or at least ostracized. Unfair.
 Lastly...there is NOTHING "secretive" about the Therian Temple, aside from the fact that we do not disclose our members personal information.
Everything we believe in and practice is readily available:our basic tenets are on the site, rumours & questions are answered in our FAQ page, and ANYONE can buy the book and read it WITHOUT becoming a member, which, again, if you took the time to read through or site, you would already know.
Magus Fenrir Therion, Therian Temple [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]]) ~~ (comment signed, but edit from anon ip) {{unsignedIP|67.149.227.159|18:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

:This has to be the stupidest conversation I've ever read. First we had someone talking about a junk edit (fair enough), which was quickly followed by cchristianTehWazzit's paranoid rantings about cults supposedly kidnapping/killing therians. And if that wasn't enough, the conversation then moves to hollywood type media" supposedly suggesting a war between Otherkin and Therians. I can't remember what that movie was called, but you should really quit taking the movies so seriously IMO. And finally we have a pair of "weres" arguing over who is a real therian and who isn't...
: For your own sake I truely hope anyone involved with this conversation was jokeing.
: And the stupidest part? I was able to post this without having to create a sockpuppet account. :{{unsigned|LOL!!fursecution!!LOL}} 17:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

::(note that I though to say this before I read Smark's comment... YOU HEAR ME??? YOU DIDN'T AFFECT ME YOU LITTLE ************!!!!1!11!)
::Sorry it took me so long to respond... I was busy with other stuff...
This entire argument is pointless. It has nothing to do with the matter at hand. We shouldn't be continuing with a set of arguments completely unrelated to the matter at hand. so whatever. Sooner or later we have to agree on something, and I'm going to stop with the bullshit and try and get this back to a discussion instead of a pointless argument about nothing.
Here is a list of things we probably agree on:
* Therian and Furry aren't the same. this article really doesn't belong on WikiFur.
* Newly Discovered Therians really don't need to see this. Stuff like this is only for long-time serious therians. as you yourself said, you don't want people who are "just looking", you want Therians who know what they are doing.
* Therian Temple is not very well respected in the community. We can agree on this I'm sure. Maybe the things said about it aren't always true, but most people don't like it.
* This IS important. Therian Temple IS note worthy. I know about it, Werelist knows about it, "Codeine's Mum" may even know about it. We can't say it's nothing, no matter how many/few members it has, most have heard of it.
* The Criticisms section is bullshit. Anyone who thinks that Therian Temple members drink blood has been stuffing something up their nose. Nobody worth asking seriously thinks that and there's no real reason to say it.
* It doesn't matter who is/isn't a therian or what we do personally. Arguing about that is stupid and irrelevant.
* Therian Temple is not an insane Cult and is not going to hurt anyone. I think the entire thing is crap if you ask me, but on review, I guess it MAY be about as legitimate as alot of the weird stuff I see on some Otherkin boards (I don't know, I can't know, I don't own a copy of the "Therian Bible") I don't think it is, but if people follow it, [[uncyclopedia:Nobody_cares|who cares]]...
I'm pretty sure we can both agree on that, so we need to stop debating what is blatantly BullShit and think up a compromise.
:Here is what I think is fair and what we should do:
* This article should be deleted from WikiFur. - It has NOTHING to do with Furry and is just causing anti WikiFur drama within the community.
* We will make a new article at Therianthropy.wikia.com - It DOES belong there. I would LOVE to see it there, it has so much relevance.
* The article should be factual. Not full of bias (that goes either way). It shouldn't be the FAQ page for Therian Temple, and it shouldn't be completely Negative.
* The entire debate over whether or not Therian Temple is [insert something extreme here] should end. starting here. It's a stupid debate that can never end. so there. The End.
How is that? I can agree to all of that (don't like some of it, but I'm happy to agree with all of it) Do you like it? any changes? or are we settled?
'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== Ask me. ==

Ok-My roommate, a furry, not therian,(who made the post above) directed me here.
He has been watching this-I think he calls himself "Tolerant1" online.
There is clearly some amount of confusion going on about this article/topic.

Due to possible conflict of interest, I will not personally edit this article, however:
If there is reliable information needed about the Therian Temple, please go straight to the source and email me: ordovirbestia@theriantemple.com

For the record:
One thing can be certain: no TT member has ever committed a crime.
If any member was ever to do so, they would have their membership immediately revoked (we don't even allow illegal drug use).
Stating in an online resource that we are involved in ANY criminal activity is in fact a legal issue of libel / slander (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) and legal action WILL be taken against any people making such false claims.

Peace to you all.
Magus Fenrir Therion,
Therian Temple
[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
~~ 12:33 (to 12:47), 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:RULE No. 1 - No threatening legal action. *laughs at a cocksucker* '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

::Rule #2. [[WikiFur:No personal attacks|No personal attacks.]] The "cocksucker" remarks are WAY out of line. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 14:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

:::The user has already been reprimanded for this and has served a suspension from WikiFur. But thanks for reminding us of the rule here. Very important.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 18:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

== Recent edit? ==
I reverted the recent edit because it seemed a little fishy...any more knowledgeable persons wish to help with the accuracy of [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Therian_Temple&curid=25908&diff=137234&oldid=133832 the edit]? [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

:yeah, that's not true. NO ONE has EVER accused them of ''Drinking Blood'', and if they did, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I drink blood. Therian Temple is generally regarded as a Scam more than "''dangerous''" or "''illegal''", so many of those claims of being accused of such are false and/or misleading. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Talk:Werelist

2007-05-24T03:58:37Z

CchristianTehWazzit: how relevant is this?

Can anyone validate the truth of [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=The_Werelist&curid=26730&diff=137232&oldid=133833&rcid=143057 this edit]? [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

:No, because it's a lie. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

== how relevant is this? ==

Well... since [[Therian Temple]] allowed to stay, I'm assuming this is relevant enough... but for the sake of argument, what is the relevance of this website to furry? as I have stated repeatedly: Therian is NOT a fandom. Werelist is NOT a furry site. I dunno... just wanting to spark a bit of debate... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

User talk:CchristianTehWazzit

2007-05-24T03:49:35Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

<big>This user is no longer involved in this project.</big>

please do not leave any messages here, as he dosn't care.

This was his talk page:
----

'''Furries cause Train wrecks! :O'''
::-''fchan''

== Nice job on the Did You Know section... ==

I just wanted to say, nice job on it. I never knew that CSI or any sutch show even Knew about the fandom, let alone made episodes with dramatically skewed ideas. (Yiffing parties! :) ) I wonder, I think theres an episode of law and order with furr... also, nice for ptting it on the front page. [[User:CchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]
:Glad you like it! We should really update it more frequently. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 23:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
::Hey, I'd be happy to fill it in for you or do something to help if you gave me some material or something. :) [[User:CchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]
:::Feel free to have a look through [[Special:Newpages]] to find some interesting tidbits, then [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know&action=edit replace the current text] and add your new stuff to the [[WikiFur:Did you know?|archive page]]. There are other suggestions for ways to help on the [[WikiFur:Community Central|Community Central]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 14:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

== RC patrol ==

Hihi...I noticed you doing some vandalism reversions the Hard Way...so I'd like to invite you to take a look at my [[User:Simba_B|user page]] which has a much easier way for non-admins to deal with vandalism. It scales much more nicely than manual reversion.... [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 23:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
::in case a reader is wondering, i told him I didn't care. the "hard way" is fine for me! : ) [[User:CchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]

==Rocky, eh?==
I'll hand it to you, he was inspired by Rocky somewhat. I guess I'll use him as some sorta avatar. I Sonic RP a lot, and he's my main charachter. But thanks for the promt welcome anyways. --[[User:Crix the Flying Squirrel|Crix the Flying Squirrel]] 02:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I know jack squat about RaB, but I guess I can chip in a few things. I guess the only reason I'm heare is because I draw a lot of anthro. It interests me.--[[User:Crix the Flying Squirrel|Crix the Flying Squirrel]] 03:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure thing. And I hope I've found an ally. Until the, yipe!--[[User:Crix the Flying Squirrel|Crix the Flying Squirrel]] 00:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

IRC? Could you gimmie a little insihgt on that? After that I won't bug you :D--[[User:Crix the Flying Squirrel|Crix the Flying Squirrel]] 02:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

== When working on articles ==

You can pop the <nowiki>{{insuse}}</nowiki> template on an article you're working on, rather than yelling in edit summaries. <tt>;)</tt> Beyond that, it can be easier to make edits in a text or word processing document of your own, then copy and paste to WikiFur. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 02:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

== Tails Clock ==
just wondering if i know you on MSN or something, Lyndenidcool@yahoo.co.uk is me.
Also thanks for contributing to the two articles i made.--[[User:Tails Clock|Tails Clock]] 02:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

no i said I'M Lyndenidcool@yahoo.co.uk and have we ever spoken on MSN before? can you tell me what your MSN adress is?--[[User:Tails Clock|Tails Clock]] 15:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

== reference for ezboard closing? ==

[[Untamed Hearts]] says "ezboard announced that they were closing down". Got a link to that announcement? (I can't find it) --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 04:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Thank you for welcoming me. And, yes, I am a skunk. :) [[User:Skunky|Skunky]] 02:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
:Nice!! [[User:Skunky|Skunky]] 03:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

== Template names ==

Please read the MediaWiki and WikiFur documentation instead of just typing in random markup and template names to see if it works. At least use the preview feature. Thanks [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 22:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

== Kitsch Sorted Again! ==

Sorry for the break, been in South East Asia. Got around to fixing Kitsch again. Hope you enjoy! [[User:Ryan Jordan = PWNED!|Ryan Jordan = PWNED!]] 15:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

:O. .o? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

==Language==
I know you're not a fan of the [[Therian Temple]] editors, but here on Wikifur, a certain modicum of civility is expected. That includes language. I have asked both of you to be nice and behave. The other editor has deferred out of respect, you continue on. I'm going to have to give you a timeout until you can promise to behave yourself and keep a clean and civil tongue here. Wikifur is not a personal battleground. Sorry. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 04:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

==Language, part 2==
The reason you have been given another 1 day suspension is that I'm continually finding your excessive use of language to be fairly unacceptable. While it's true that many other editors find themselves using vulgarities (I'm no innocent), unwarranted vulgarities are simply unprofessional and it lends to bad appearance and reputation. Even if the person you're cursing out is a troll, randomly calling them a stupid mother fucker in big caps is simply what one can consider a [[Wikifur:No personal attacks|personal attack]]. You've been warned before when you got out of hand with [[Talk:Therian Temple|Therian Temple]] and I'm keeping a careful eye on how you're conducting yourself there. Since then, you've been on a kind of "parole." Second chances only go so far and I'm beginning to see a remission back into swearing and such. This is your second offense and as such, I'm just giving you a day to think about your randomness. This isn't a personal attack against you or the act of a fascist administratorship. This is just trying to keep the talk pages clean. If your professional attitude doesn't change soon, more severe punishments may be at hand. I'm just giving you fair warning. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 08:58, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
:um... what are you talking about? I haven't posted there for days... (and he was the last person to say anything)
:I don't remember calling him any names lately... I thought I was being civil... Maybe instead of explaining that it's not "Faschist adminship" you should tell me what I said? (I also didn't know you banned me the first time, probably because that's when I left WikiFur...) '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
::The case in matter belonger to [[User talk:LOL!fursecution!LOL]] (which has since been deleted by [[User:DuncanDaHusky|an administrator]]) where you randomly mocked some troll by calling him a motherfucker and whatnot. While, yes, it's a [[troll]], it still falls under a nonprofessionalism that combined with your previous cocksucker comments in recent months on [[Talk:Therian]] and [[Talk:Therian Temple]], tends to exhibit bad faith edits. I know you're trying to be civil, but you have your moments. If I were you, I'd be focused on just watching what I say and how I say it in the near future. I hope I've explained this the best I can.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 05:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

:::*chuckles knowingly...* of course it wasn't anyone I knew... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

User talk:KendricksRedtail

2007-05-23T01:47:26Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

*'''''For entries dated 1 April 2006 - 27 February 2007, see [[User talk:KendricksRedtail/Archive|Archive]].'''''

== Road Runner ==

You don't have to put [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Road_Runner&curid=2646&diff=122612&oldid=79657 both] tags in. One or the other will do. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 02:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== Kiralea ==
"Also, why is this under the title Kiralea and no mention of that name is made anywhere?"
Because [[User:Rapture]] had created [[Kiralea]] with the content "WIP" and had blanked [[Rapytur]] and set it as a redirect to said page. See [[User talk:Rapture]]. (Also, may I suggest archiving your talk page sometime soon? It's getting a little long. =3) [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 20:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== Beast: panel or cover? ==

About the [[:Image:XBeast.jpg]] that you uploaded with the comic-panel tag. Are you sure it isn't the cover of [http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=4243 ''New X-Men'' #117] (2001 series)? --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

== TOC placement ==

What's with that? It looks bad. It bunches up with the text instead of being separate. [[User:Deafleas|Deafleas]] 09:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
:Trying to remove whitespace. Do you have better suggestions?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 15:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
::Why do you consider whitespace bad? Unless it's a newspaper, it can be considered a good thing. [[User:Deafleas|Deafleas]] 08:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
:::As a former journalist, it just rakes with me. Whitespace can be distracting and too much of it can cause a person to lose interest in the rest of the article.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 15:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
::::The web is not print media; we are not pressed for space are confined by the size of the print medium. Whitespace can be used to guide the eye. A page with no whitespace looks busy, cramped, and unappealing. [http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/whitespace.html This might be a good reference to look over].----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 15:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::It might also be nice if Wikifur had a background that wasn't purely white. Perhaps a soft color. I can't say for sure what, but something would be quite nice. [[User:Deafleas|Deafleas]] 03:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

== Kat the Leopardess ==
Thanks for the improvement. Im still getting the hang of this stuff.
-Kat

== Xanaphia ==
Thanks a ton for all the help with formatting and getting my page up to standards ^_^
-Xanaphia

== Reply from RVDDP2501 ==

Hey Kendricks, I just recieved your message, how's things, yeah, I honestly have to say I haven't read much of Ex myself, little piece here and there, I have noticed the same thing you mentioned in regards to the differences in spelling of the word "Keeper", since the main portion of the info was from Shawntae's character pages/info given on those characters plus my lack of knowledge, I wasn't too sure what it was about, I was hoping someone who had better knowledge pertaining to that fact would come along and fix it (if it needed fixing), I will try and get in touch with some people I know who might be able to shed some light on this matter soon. Nice talking to you - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 01:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

==Aerusales==
thank you for fixing my stuff..but i want to put one of my comics some where it the comic whatever thing but i don't know how..can u tell me?...yeah thats it...oh and i need spelling....i got bad spelling...thank anyways...

== Using admin rollback ==

When you're reverting an edit made in good faith, try not to use admin rollback, and leave an edit summary. Help the user understand why you're reverting. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 05:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

== Reverting me on [[The Werelist]] ==

What was that about? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

:Just cleaning stuff up there. You weren't reverted. Just cleaning up the tone to making it sound more neutral and encyclopedic. The article sounded so defensive. Imagine reading an article in the encyclopedia about Bush 50 years from now and it's saying People thought his war in Iraq was about oil, but what Bush was really after was blah blah blah. I appreciate you laying out the facts and those were left in, but leave it as the facts. I'm not really sure what I can say more.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 04:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

== re: Language: Part 2 ==

um... what are you talking about? I haven't posted there for days... (and he was the last person to say anything) I haven't been on Wikia for a while!

I don't remember calling him any names lately... I thought I was being civil... Maybe instead of explaining that it's not "Faschist adminship" you should tell me what I said, and what was innapropriate about it? (I also didn't know you banned me the first time, probably because that's when I left WikiFur...) '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

User talk:CchristianTehWazzit

2007-05-23T01:46:58Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-05-20T18:01:41Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion */ I'm really getting tired of this...

User:CchristianTehWazzit

2007-05-19T22:51:27Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

I used to be a respected member of WikiFur. I left the entire project for the right reasons, but I should have stayed and fought longer. I am going to fix this, I promise. Not for WikiFur, but for the worsening relations between Therian and Furry.

I do not like WikiFur. I do not agree with it's treatment of Therians. I am only participating to try and fix the problems that are here. I am not affiliated with the therians who are planning the "attacks" on WikiFur.

'''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-05-19T21:59:15Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion */ I'm still waiting to directly discuss the situation at hand.

Talk:Destroying the Illusion

2007-05-19T19:06:52Z

CchristianTehWazzit:

Under Premise is the sentence: "The strip recounts the author and illustrator's real-life events using [[anthropomorphic]] characters in lieu of his real life human persona, and that of his friends." I do not understand what is meant by this; the ''in lieu'' is tripping me up. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 01:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

:He means in place, or instead. as in, instead of drawing humans, he draws characters. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Destroying the Illusion

2007-05-19T19:06:10Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Premise */

{{Infobox webcomic
| title = destroying the illusion
| image = [[Image:destroyingtheillusion.gif|200px]]
| caption =
| author = [[Joe Meyer]]
| url = http://www.webcomicsnation.com/joemeyer/dti/series.php
| status = Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays
| began = January 2006
| ended = Ongoing
| genre = Autobiography
| rating = [[Image:Censor panda nyr button.png]][[Category:Not yet rated]]
}}
'''''destroying the illusion''''' is an autobiographical [[webcomic]] by artist [[Joe Meyer]].

== Premise ==

The strip recounts the author and illustrator's real-life events using [[anthropomorphic]] characters in place of his real life human persona, and that of his friends.

== Characters ==

*'''Eryshé Falafel''', Joe's primary [[fursona]] whom he frequently [[fursuit]]s as, takes Joe's place as the story's central character. Eryshé is a blue and peach furred [[cat|kitty]][[rabbit]] hybrid. Although Eryshé is the main fursona, he sometimes uses other fursonas to depict his autobiographical stories:

*'''Division Fahrenheit''', a bright red [[kangaroo]] with black hair has mostly been depicted in stories with another kangaroo, Dahlia.

*'''Teh Fuzor''', a rather large white [[rabbit]].

== External Links==
* [http://mister-f.livejournal.com/ ''destroying the illusion: the Live Journal'',] the strip's [[LiveJournal]]
{{comic-stub}}
[[Category:Comics]]
[[Category:2006 births]]

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-05-15T22:40:49Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Misleading... */

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-05-14T20:43:02Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Misleading...

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-05-14T05:51:24Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion */

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-05-14T05:37:20Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Reckless Slander-Total lies & Opinion */ ok, sure.....

Talk:Therian

2007-05-14T04:58:08Z

CchristianTehWazzit: You are a VEGETARIAN Were-WOLF??? I don't believe you....

The following paragraph was removed from the main article, under the reason of being "very bias[sic]":
:In many ways, therians could be called [[were]]-lifestylers, except most therians are aggressivly against the idea of conciously assuming animal traits, a trait they feel is a hallmark of wannabes and [[lifestylers]]. Instead, they prefer to believe that the therian state is something people cannot assume.
Instead of keeping the entire pragraph out, could someone rewrite it, if possible, to just be a lot less biased and then reinsert it? Thanks, --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 19:21, 2 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:That's not, in any way, an accurate representation of therians. It -should- be removed outright. {{unsigned|24.162.235.5}} 00:55, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

== TherianTemple.com ==

Therian Temple lewks like a dead obvious CULT to me. Cults are a SERIOUS problem in the Were-World, ESPECIALLY to young, developing therians. This one, just from the front page is DEFINATELY a Cult, notice: I do not say "coven", I say CULT. Please DO NOT replace this link. thank you to the anon who was removing it and EarthFurst who brought it to my attention. Also: for Future reference: CAREFULL WHAT YOU LINK AS A THERIAN RESOURCE!!! If it dosn't look like Werelist or something, ask some therian knowledgable people to check for you. I can't stress enough how important this is, ESPECIALLY since WikiFur was what showed mee Therian in the first place.

regards: '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]''' 03:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

-----------------
The Therian Temple is not a cult. Cults recruit, Cults force members to do things, cults have an idolized Leader...they dont do any of that.
Its very close minded to try and write off something new right away just because its not just like what you believe in.
The T.T. has members in 4 countries including members of the US Armed Forces.
None of them have ever done anythign illegal-you would have seen it on the news: "Werewolf cult kills babies" or something-but you didnt-because its justa group of people who study magic and read books-quit being so mean. ~tolerant one {{Unsigned|67.149.55.134}}

:oh really? and you are?
:Pah! whatever. We can't put it up there anyway, it's considered a scam by every therian I know (I doubt you are one, but I won't go there). Even still, I KNOW what cults do to us, so I want to keep this stuff off of wikifur, especially for what I said before. if you REALLY want to try for this, wait a week or two, the Therian Wiki is currently waiting for Wikia staff to make it, we can discuss this there. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

::I actually agree with tolerant one on this one...it is not a cult. But it is a scam, and something to be avoided.-{{Unsigned|Xainy}}

:I will state here what I said in another talk page:
Due to possible conflict of interest, I will not personally edit this article, however:
If there is reliable information needed about the Therian Temple, please go straight to the source and email me: ordovirbestia@theriantemple.com

For the record:
One thing can be certain: no TT member has ever committed a crime.
If any member was ever to do so, they would have their membership immediately revoked (we don't even allow illegal drug use).
Stating in an online resource that we are involved in ANY criminal activity is in fact a legal issue of libel / slander (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) and legal action WILL be taken against any people making such false claims.

Peace to you all.
Magus Fenrir Therion,
Therian Temple
[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])

:Regardless of how the KoolAid actually tastes, I'm going to leave links to the Temple off this article, as well as [[Therianthropy]]. The links that continue to stay are both informative resources that tell me more about therians and therianthropy. I would also advise that [[Therian Temple]] gets a heavy overhaul so you're not selling the site or shilling your product on the wiki. Also, please do not come in here touting the law stick. All of you behave, please. You too, cchristian. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 17:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

:Perhaps you can overhaul that article. As I stated, I will not be editing Therian related articles due to POV / Conflict of interest issues.
The "Law stick", as you call it, was necessary at the time, due to someone writing in that "cults like Therian Temple kill people", which is an obviously libelous claim, which can easily be proven false by simply doing even minor research.

We do not recruit new members or "sell" anything. Obviously, as a new group, we are not as big and rich as the Christian church that we can give out printed Bibles for free like the Gideons, and the only cost in the TT is the price of the hardcover book, which cost money to print and ship.There is no advertising anywhere for the TT, in print OR online, due to the fact that we wish for only genuinely interested people who have come across it on their own to get involved.

We keep to ourselves generally. Frankly, I think other TT members would agree that we would have preferred to keep somewhat private, but with all these cruel lies being put on highly trafficked sites, I'm sure you can see why some amount of self-defense was needed.

I am a very friendly and reasonable person, and I can't see why people don't just contact the TT when they have these types of serious questions / accusations about us and our activities. Our email is right on the site, and anyone is welcome to ask questions. I mean, seriously, if you actually thought a group was participating in killing or anything close to that, wouldn't you investigate it, or at least contact the authorities to see if any "werewolf murders" had ever occurred? To just say it in a wiki page is clearly just an attempt to make a minority group of adherents look bad publicly for whatever reasons / agendas.

I do respect and Thank you, Kendricks, for keeping an objective "wiki" type of perspective on this issue, when so many others have been editing in their own personal views into related articles.
[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
:Although you can threaten with legal threats, we would ask that you [[Legal threats|do not for these reasons]]. As for your print issues, if this is a religious group, you can ask for tithing or simply ask for donations. Forcing someone to buy their way into your religion sits wrong on MANY people, including me. Thank you for understanding the need for an NPOV, however the same standards are expected of you and your roommate as well. Making thinly veiled jabs and attacks on other sites do not lend well to your claims of good faith. Quite simply to quote religiously, "[[Wikipedia:Golden Rule|do unto others as you would have them do unto you]]" and "turn the other cheek."--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 02:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

:Dear Sir,(Madame?) I believe you are very confused, or being fed misinformation somehow.
No one is "forced" to buy or do anything.
Also, we are not a Christian group, and do not and will never ask for tithing (10% of people's yearly income, as asked by "tithing" churches is a LOT more than the cost of one copy of a hardcover book). No one can "buy their way into" any religion, either they believe in it and follow it or the don't.
Obviously, though, you would want people to know what you are talking about when referring to the book.
Christian churches don't require new member to buy their book because ther bible is Readily available anywhere, due to hundreds of YEARS of mass distribution
What "jabs" are you talking about?
Defending the group of which I am a member by saying that we do not allow illegal activity is an attack on someone? Who? How?
Also, we are not a Christian group, and thus, are not bound by the Christian "golden rule", and personally, I see it more fit to "do unto others as THEY HAVE DONE TO YOU". If someone insults me with false accusations, and is somehow insulted by the fact that their accusations have been publicly proven false, this is only fair game.
I don't see it as an attack to protect myself and my group from slanderous lies being spread about us.
This is beginning to seem like a gang-up tactic on here, with a bunch people forcing me having to explain things that are already clearly stated on the TT site.
I hope you do plan to make this site and its information remain objective and not let people's personal views blur the line between some people's fantasy and reality.[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])

:I'm not ganging up on anyone or anything. I'm staying neutral. That should have been honest when I suspended Christian for attacking you. When I said "buying" one's way into a religion, I was referring to the fact that to join your religion, you have to give someone $30 bucks. Otherwise you can't get in. It's like any other one of those television evangelists who will share the secrets of God with you for 5 easy payments. The jabs I referred to is your edits to Werelist. The edits have been cleaned up there. As for the Golden Rule, it doesn't necessarily have to be Christian. It's just morally good sense. Retaliation like you seem to support is the reason that this conflict will likely continue on. Break the cycle, dude. Otherwise, it will be assumed that any edits you make on this wiki will be in bad faith and will be automatically reverted.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 01:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

:Maybe you overlooked a main point:
"Obviously, you would want people to know what you are talking about when referring to the book." --Meaning-it would be unfair & deceitful to allow people to participate in a "religion" if some of them did not have the book and some did. Requiring that people read the book first helps make sure that everyone involved knows what they are getting into / supporting. That should be easy to understand.
Again: Christian churches don't require new members to buy their book because their bible is Readily available anywhere, due to hundreds of YEARS of mass distribution, and MOST people have already read or at least have a copy of the Holy Bible.
Also, most christian groups pursue a tax-exempt status, and therefore many materials are subsidized. We, however, do not pursue a tax-exempt status, thus we pay full cost for our materials, and pay taxes on them. I don't see how anyone could consider that to be anything like television evangelists who are using a widely available text (the Holy Bible) and who do not pay taxes. [[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
:You know it's not just Christianity that does this, you know. :-) Most religions fall under that tax-exemption. You should investigate it yourself. And I don't think you pay attention to TV evangelists who hawk wares like their own personal books or my personal favorite was the prayer hankie. The point I was making earlier is that churchs, synagogues and mosques tend to operate due to DONATIONS by the members, not by paying dues or by paying an entrance fee. You claim to have this mass flock in 4 countries. It should be no trouble at all ask for donations because really what are your expenses? You can get your book tossed off a vanity press or if you really want to be new age, have it available on the good ol Internet. Beyond, there's website upkeep and...? Anything beyond that and you MIGHT be setting your sights too high too soon. :) My other point is your line about the people reading the book first before they know what they're getting into. However they've already paid their $30 and a little voice tells me that you probably don't offer refunds. Just like the TV evangelists. Stupid prayer hankie. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 18:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

:Why do people keep acting like $30 is a lot of money? What are you people homeless or something? I spend $30 on lunch. Analogy: If I wanted to check out a musician's latest CD, I would only be given minor samples of what it contained (radio songs,myspace page, music video etc.) , and would have to buy the CD to hear the rest of it. Should I get a refund if I end up only liking one song on the CD? NO, because it cost money to make the CD, and I agreed to take the risk that I may or may not like the whole CD. You are being ridiculous, and you sound like a communist...-[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])
::Actually $30 may be a bit overspending on your lunch. I think I pay 5 bucks at my local hot dog stand. :-) And for many furries, otherkin and therian, $30 bucks can be a frivolous expenditure. And, btw, noting your analogy, you don't offer clips and snippets. Maybe that'd be an idea?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 22:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

:If one views "Temple Mission" on our site there are very basic excerpts from the Therian Bible there, for which we have chosen the more "stern" elements to filter out anyone potentially not prepared to deal with our form of Practices, thus those who buy the book already expect order and rules, and no one has ever asked for a "refund".
And, personally, I do , and would never risk my own health on a meal costing merely $5. Nor would I waste my time on a book that needs to be given out for free, as if the group is desperate for members. Books also can constitute mind food... If You are what you eat, and you eat cheap garbage...well, then....

-[[User:MagusFenrir|MagusFenrir]]([[User talk:MagusFenrir|talk]])

::Sorry to inturrupt, but don't you ''claim'' to be a were-WOLF??? How could you stand to "not eat any animals"? I mean, some of us even drool over ROAD KILL sometimes. I've broken the rule somewhere in the Torah saying "though shalt not drink blood" a few times, simply because I can't resist the urges. You come along and say that you are a Wolf therian, yet you insult the consumption of meat as if it disgusts you in some way. I'm sorry, but I don't believe you are being entirely truthful here... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Therian

2007-05-14T04:46:14Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* See also */

:Main article at [[Therianthropy]].

'''Therians''' are people who believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to (an) animal(s). That is to say that part of their core being is animal, be it spiritually, mentally, et cetera. Unlike [[furry lifestyle]]rs, therians do not try to outwardly project their animalistic nature, nor do they choose the animal side they are inherently born with. Therians may also be called "shifters", though this can be a contentious term as a growing number feel they do not actually change from one state to another and more reflect a human-animal state by having an animal soul and a human body.

There are three categorized types of ''shifts'' acknowledged by the therian community:
* '''Mental (M-Shift)''' - A case where, for psychological reasons, a person has an animal-human mental state.
* '''Spiritual (S-Shift)''' - A case where, for spiritual reasons, a person has an animal-human mental state.
* '''Physical (P-Shift)''' - People who can magically or scientifically change forms.

Other types of shifts have been categorized from these terms and can be found in the links as listed below.

In spite of these formal definitions M-shift has become the dominant term to refer to any non-physical shift, whether for psychological reasons or spiritual reasons.

Shifting, in general, means times when animalistic aspects become, either through voluntary methods like meditation or drugs, or involuntarily, dominant over human aspects of the person's personality. This may include, but not be limited to, feelings of "phantom limbs" or fur, keener senses, desires to bite or hunt, feelings of instincts not usual to humans, etc. This shifting, however, is not limited to therians alone, as anyone is capable of bringing on an animalistic shift. Shifting is not an inherent, or required part of therianthropy.

P-shifting is the most controversial. As a general rule, it's more used as a term to discuss fictional [[transformation]]s rather than literal ones; people claiming to p-shift in any way are usually met with aggressive skepticism and are often accused of being [[roleplay]]ers. Any respectable therian community will require proof before they would allow anyone to discuss this ability. As such, no self-proclaimed Pshifter has ever offered up proof of their shifting ability.
Some Therian groups view the "physical shift" as NOT being an actual change into an animal, but an intense physiological change, which may include heightened senses, increased strength, etc.

Therians differ from the [[Furry lifestyle]] in that they do not try to mimic or bring their animal into their daily lives. Therians understand their nature as being -human- and -animal- and as thus feel no need to pretend or 'play the role' of the animal, save in some circumstances. Therians also do not, in any way, choose their animal side, they are born into it. It takes a great deal of introspection and understanding for a therian to come to terms with their inner animal nature. The therian nature is not based on stereotypes (such as a wolf howling at the moon, or a lion's courage).

Usually, therians have one animal aspect, or [[phenotype]], but some have two or more. Generally, these people are referred to as ''Polyweres'' [alternate term: Pan-Therian], and can be a source of controversy, as single-aspect therians often cannot relate to how a multiple-animal therian could exist, especially in the context of having an animal soul. Many are therian-[[otherkin]] mixes, such as wolf-dragons or cat-vampires.

A distinction between mythical therians and otherkin can be found however, as many otherkin seem to believe they have a 'past life' or an 'alternate existence/persona' which makes up their otherkin nature. Therians do not see their animalistic nature as being separate from themselves and as thus many of these types of mythicals have joined therian community.

==See also==
*[[Otherkin]]
*[[Therianthropy]]
*[[Vampire-kin]]
*[[Furry lifestyle]]

==External links==
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therian Wiki]
* [http://www.werelist.com/ the Werelist]

[[Category:culture]]
[[Category:terms]]
[[Category:spirituality]]

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-05-14T04:43:01Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Therianthropy "Experts"? */

Talk:Therianthropy

2007-05-14T04:35:26Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Therian and Furry */

Therianthropy

2007-05-14T04:33:58Z

CchristianTehWazzit: adding a little info, some of the info already here is a little misleading...

[[Image:TigerHologram.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hologram of a [[human]] combined with a picture of a [[tiger]] at the [[Wikipedia:MIT Museum|MIT Museum]]]]
'''Therianthropy''' is a generic term for the [[transformation]] of a [[human]] into another [[animal]] form, either as a part of mythology or as a spiritual concept. It is derived from the Greek ''therion'', meaning "wild animal", and ''anthrōpos'', meaning "man".

[[Therian]]s believe that they have an intrinsic, personal, and integral connection to an animal (or animals). Most believe that mental and emotional shifts can occur as a result; a controversial minority extend this to the physical world.

Therianthropy is sometimes viewed as a spiritual counterpart to [[furry fandom]], which is concerned more with imagination than belief. Some [[furries]] view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while some therians view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals. However, relations are usually friendly, and therians can often be found at furry [[convention]]s and other social [[:Category:Events|events]].

==Modern subcultural use of the term==
===Beliefs and origins===

In recent times, a [[Wikipedia:Subculture|subculture]] has developed that has adopted the word ''therianthropy'' to describe a sense of intense [[furry spirituality|spiritual]] or psychological identification with a non-human animal. Members of this subculture typically refer to themselves as ''therianthropes'' or ''therians''. The word ''[[were]]'' was also common at one point, in reference to shapeshifting creatures of legend such as [[Werewolf|werewolves]], weretigers and the like, but is less common these days. One reason for the waning use of the term "were" is its growing use in the furry community to mean a more "bestial" style furry. This causes many misunderstandings between the therian and furry communities.

The [[Usenet]] group alt.horror.werewolves was founded in 1992, and in its earliest days the members discussed fictional shapeshifters. Some posters began to publicly claim that they considered themselves to be partially non-human animal. A number of these people were only joking, but enough people were serious about it that it became a trend. Others who professed the same beliefs soon joined the group. The earliest therians called themselves ''lycanthropes'', but as that word more accurately describes wolf-people, ''therianthropes'' was chosen as a more inclusive term.

Those within this subculture who identify with a spiritual understanding of this phenomenon may believe that they have the spirit or soul, in whole or in part, of a non-human animal, and their beliefs often overlap to some extent with aspects of [[Wikipedia:Shamanism|shamanism]] or [[animal totem|totemism]]. Some also draw inspiration from stories of shapeshifting in [[Wikipedia:Celtic mythology|Celtic]], [[Wikipedia:Norse mythology|Norse]] and [[Wikipedia:Native American mythology|Native American]] myths, among others. The term ''spiritual therianthropy'' is often used to differentiate this definition of therianthropy from others. However, shamanism and totemism are not an intrinsic part of therianthropy.

Those who prefer a psychological explanation may simply describe it as having a non-human animal side to their personality or nature, with some believing that it may be due to some sort of unusual neurophysiology, as is thought to be the case with syndromes like attention deficit disorder and autism. Others believe that their genes are partially non-human, but this explanation is unproven, scientifically implausible, and not favored by many. Most of those who support the explanation of atypical neuropsychology, however, do not appear to regard it as innately dysfunctional.

In either case, the identification with the non-human animal may be partial, as in those who regard themselves as having both human and non-human attributes, or complete, as in those who regard themselves as essentially non-human animals in human bodies. The terms ''species dysphoria'' and ''transspeciesism'' have occasionally been used to refer to the latter phenomenon, in parallel with the concepts of gender dysphoria and [[Wikipedia:Transsexuality|transsexuality]].

Most therians identify with a single type of non-human animal, but there are some who identify with more than one — sometimes related animals, as in several different species of [[feline]] or [[canine]], for example, but sometimes completely dissimilar animals. Those who identify with all members of one family — for instance, someone who claims to have characteristics of all felines — is called a ''cladotherianthrope''. The species of non-human animal with which a particular therian identifies is sometimes referred to as that person's ''theriotype'' or ''[[phenotype]]''. The term phenotype was originally more common but has fallen into disuse because it also refers to physical appearance.

The majority of therianthropes identify as [[feline]] or [[canine]], often big cats and wolves (see [http://archive.werelist.com/modules.php?name=Demographics&op=show_statistics&showpage=pheno1 this survey] by the Werelist), but there are also [[reptile]]s, [[bird|avians]], other mammals, and [[insects]]. Some skeptics argue that, because of the preponderance of large carnivores, most therians are only faking and are purposefully choosing impressive animals for ego-based purposes. There are also some individuals who identify with mythical species (e.g. [[dragon]]s, [[Wikipedia:Elf|elves]], [[gryphon]]s, [[centaur]]s and so forth), but they are usually categorized in the broader [[otherkin]] community rather than as therians.

Therianthropes may describe their nature as manifesting in terms of their cognitive processes, their outlook on life, their inner reactions and [[Wikipedia:Instinct|instinct]]s, their senses, or through their physical body, though claims of actual physical variations from the norm tend to be regarded with skepticism both within and outside the subculture. The human and non-human aspects of the self may co-operate or conflict, leading to happiness or unhappy dysfunction, and may take much self-discovery to begin to understand or accept. Because this is a personal perception of self, the ways in which a person describes his or her self-identification as a therianthrope vary considerably.

A controversial aspect of therianthropy is the subject of ''shifting'' (a shortened word for [[shapeshifting]]), which generally refers to any manner by which a therianthrope's nature may become evidenced internally (to themselves) or externally to others. Few people within the subculture doubt that shifts of mental and emotional perception may occur; some therianthropes also claim to experience a physical change to their appearance, an event known as ''physical shifting'' (or ''P-shifting''). Many in the therianthrope subculture doubt that physical changes actually occur; the overwhelming majority of those outside of the culture completely deny that any real physical shifting can occur.

Some of the rationally minded, skeptical therianthropes suggest that their therianthropy may be a mental or psychological condition, possibly with a spiritual or religious component. Advocates of this viewpoint can be found on the forums at Werelist.com (see below).

===Subculture===
Therianthropy as a subculture does not have any central dogma or tenets, nor any recognized authority. Those who have been around for a long time are generally listened to, though less out of any perceived spiritual authority than simple acknowledgment of experience. The word [[greymuzzle]] is often used tongue-in-cheek to describe these people.

While there is no offline social organization, there exists a [[:Category:Community|community]] of therians with many diverse outlooks on the concept, including [[Christian fur|Christian]]s, [[Wikipedia:Pagan|Pagan]]s, and [[Wikipedia:Atheism|atheist]]s. As could be expected, disagreements are frequent, and the many online [[forum]]s and [[:Category:Chat rooms|chat rooms]] of the community each have their own "atmosphere," ranging from total acceptance to scornful cynicism. There have been intermittent "real-world" gatherings, referred to as ''howls'', but their purpose is primarily social.

====Therianthropy vs. Species Dysphoria====
Therianthropy is closely related to species dysphoria, a condition similar to Gender Dysphoria in which the person has the body of a human, but the identity of an animal. Many Therians admit to having at least mild Species Dysphoria, and today, many therians believe that Species Dysphoria is simply another "symptom" of therianthropy.

====Therianthropy vs. clinical lycanthropy====
Spiritual therianthropy is not automatically the same as clinical lycanthropy, a mental illness in which an individual believes he or she belongs to or can change to another [[species]]. While some therianthropes believe they can take on the mindset of their "other side" in what is referred to as a ''mental shift'', they believe that they retain control during these transformations and are no greater danger to themselves or others. The term ''contherianthropes'' is sometimes used for those who do not claim to mentally shift but believe they have human and non-human sides which are mixed up into a single unchanging whole.

====Therianthropy and furry fandom====

Therianthropy should not be confused with the [[furry fandom]], though some intermixing of the groups does occur. As a general rule, to an extent, therianthropes are more focused on the sense of an animal within, an animal side to their nature, or spiritual concepts; by contrast, [[furry|furries]] are more commonly focused on furry [[art]] and/or [[role-playing]] related to [[anthropomorphic]] non-humans. There is some overlap with those who identify themselves with each group or view the other positively, as well as those in each group who view the other negatively. For instance, some furries view therianthropy as "taking it too far," while therianthropes may view furries as frivolous and ignorant of the "true nature" of animals.

==== Being "cured" ====
While many Therians agree that the condition interferes with normal actvity and can be annoying at times, many also agree that given a choice, they would not be "cured" and become non-therians.

==See also==
* [[Lifestylers]]
* [[Otherkin]]
* [[Vampire kin]]
* [[Therian]]
* [[Were]]
* [[Werewolf]]

==External links==
* [http://www.werelist.com The Werelist]
* [http://wikitherian.org The Therianthropy Wiki]
* [http://dreamofhorn.com/therian The WereLibrary]
* [http://www.trueformwithin.org TrueForm Within]

[[Category: Terms]]

{{Wikipedia|Therianthropy}}
{{featured article}}

User talk:KendricksRedtail

2007-05-14T04:17:07Z

CchristianTehWazzit: Reverting me on TheWerelist

*'''''For entries dated 1 April 2006 - 27 February 2007, see [[User talk:KendricksRedtail/Archive|Archive]].'''''

== Road Runner ==

You don't have to put [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Road_Runner&curid=2646&diff=122612&oldid=79657 both] tags in. One or the other will do. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 02:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== Kiralea ==
"Also, why is this under the title Kiralea and no mention of that name is made anywhere?"
Because [[User:Rapture]] had created [[Kiralea]] with the content "WIP" and had blanked [[Rapytur]] and set it as a redirect to said page. See [[User talk:Rapture]]. (Also, may I suggest archiving your talk page sometime soon? It's getting a little long. =3) [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 20:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

== Beast: panel or cover? ==

About the [[:Image:XBeast.jpg]] that you uploaded with the comic-panel tag. Are you sure it isn't the cover of [http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=4243 ''New X-Men'' #117] (2001 series)? --[[User:EarthFurst|EarthFurst]] 01:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

== TOC placement ==

What's with that? It looks bad. It bunches up with the text instead of being separate. [[User:Deafleas|Deafleas]] 09:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
:Trying to remove whitespace. Do you have better suggestions?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 15:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
::Why do you consider whitespace bad? Unless it's a newspaper, it can be considered a good thing. [[User:Deafleas|Deafleas]] 08:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
:::As a former journalist, it just rakes with me. Whitespace can be distracting and too much of it can cause a person to lose interest in the rest of the article.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 15:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
::::The web is not print media; we are not pressed for space are confined by the size of the print medium. Whitespace can be used to guide the eye. A page with no whitespace looks busy, cramped, and unappealing. [http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/whitespace.html This might be a good reference to look over].----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 15:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
:::::It might also be nice if Wikifur had a background that wasn't purely white. Perhaps a soft color. I can't say for sure what, but something would be quite nice. [[User:Deafleas|Deafleas]] 03:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

== Kat the Leopardess ==
Thanks for the improvement. Im still getting the hang of this stuff.
-Kat

== Xanaphia ==
Thanks a ton for all the help with formatting and getting my page up to standards ^_^
-Xanaphia

== Reply from RVDDP2501 ==

Hey Kendricks, I just recieved your message, how's things, yeah, I honestly have to say I haven't read much of Ex myself, little piece here and there, I have noticed the same thing you mentioned in regards to the differences in spelling of the word "Keeper", since the main portion of the info was from Shawntae's character pages/info given on those characters plus my lack of knowledge, I wasn't too sure what it was about, I was hoping someone who had better knowledge pertaining to that fact would come along and fix it (if it needed fixing), I will try and get in touch with some people I know who might be able to shed some light on this matter soon. Nice talking to you - [[User:RVDDP2501|RVDDP2501]] 01:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

==Aerusales==
thank you for fixing my stuff..but i want to put one of my comics some where it the comic whatever thing but i don't know how..can u tell me?...yeah thats it...oh and i need spelling....i got bad spelling...thank anyways...

== Using admin rollback ==

When you're reverting an edit made in good faith, try not to use admin rollback, and leave an edit summary. Help the user understand why you're reverting. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 05:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

== Reverting me on [[TheWerelist]] ==

What was that about? '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''

Talk:Therian Temple

2007-05-12T05:59:02Z

CchristianTehWazzit: /* Recent edit? */