WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Talk:Astolpho

2011-11-16T18:12:29Z

Astolpho: request for personal exclusion

<div style="float:right">[[/Archive1|Archive1]]</div>

Per your policy on personal exclusion, I would like to request that this article about me be excluded. --[[User:Astolpho|Astolpho]] 13:12, 16 November 2011 (EST)

== Babyfur? ==
Is Asolpho a [[babyfur]]? Looking at the picture, it seems so, or should I leave the babyfur category off? [[User:Equivamp|Equivamp]] 18:18, 2 May 2011 (EDT)
:You should probably [http://en.wikifur.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Astolpho&action=history review the history of this article]. My understanding is that the subject of this article does not wish Google to pop up with "X is a babyfur"; however, as you noted, some of his artwork does feature them. Some construction of words which communicated this fact while not mentioning the term in close proximity to his name might be appropriate. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:55, 2 May 2011 (EDT)
::All right, thanks! I'll take another look at the article and see what I can do, if anything. [[User:Equivamp|Equivamp]] 18:58, 2 May 2011 (EDT)

User talk:Astolpho

2011-04-25T01:21:10Z

Astolpho:

== Talk:Astolpho‎ (public page) ==

We don't blank public talk pages were people have made comments regarding data and thoughts about the article in question, no matter how old they are [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:16, 24 April 2011 (EDT)
:That's unfortunate. If I'm not allowed to delete discussion that is basically just pointless trashtalking, then you guys should probably change that rule. [[User:Astolpho|Astolpho]]
::Until then, please refrain from doing so [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:20, 24 April 2011 (EDT)
:::If I requested that my information be excluded from wikifur, would that also eliminate the discussion page? If that's my only option, I'd like to do that. [[User:Astolpho|Astolpho]]

Talk:Astolpho

2011-04-25T01:18:24Z

Astolpho: /* Tone */ removed drama, left discussion.

==Tone==
I'm a bit concerned with tone in a few places. For example, "Astolpho had up until that point made a point of being courteous and polite to everyone he interacted with". This is a judgement, and should be attributed IMHO. For example, "Astolpho asserts that he had...". It's hard to write about oneself, no? The only actual change I'm making to the article is in the phrase "unanimous approval", although I'll reconsider if the author can show it (the artist's new style) was put to a yes/no vote, with no dissenters. Even then it would have to note the scope, i.e. "...unanimous approval among such-and-such group". But good article overall! --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 23:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I'm not one for editing other people's talk pages, but typically, if someone doesn't sign something, then I just delete it without answering it on mine. Might be a good idea for you to do that too, bellcat.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:26, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Astolpho

2011-04-25T01:16:56Z

Astolpho: /* Talk:Astolpho‎ (public page) */

Talk:Astolpho

2011-04-24T20:03:19Z

Astolpho: discussion page was full of years-old arguments about content long since changed, so I am blanking it.

User:Astolpho

2011-04-24T20:01:09Z

Astolpho: wiped the snark off my profile page

Hi! I'm Astolpho. I think you are pretty cool. We should hang out sometime.

{{ContributorU|astolpho}}

The Dawn Chapel

2011-04-24T19:58:58Z

Astolpho: /* Completed stories */

{{Infobox webcomic
| image = [[File:TheDawnChapel-2010-07-09-firefox-5.jpg|Firefox is about to crash]]
| title = The Dawn Chapel
| author = [[Astolpho]]
| url = http://dawnchapel.com/
| status = Weekly, updated Fridays
| began = November 2009
| genre = Short-form narrative
}}
'''''The Dawn Chapel''''' is a weekly [[webcomic]] created by [[Astolpho]]. It's an experimental effort consisting of a collection short stories 4-8 pages long, interspersed with single-page one-offs. All of the stories feature animal characters in some way.

== Completed stories ==

*'''''How the Raccoon Got His Coat''''' - An adaptation of a Seneca folktale depicting the wily Raccoon stealing treasure from Raven, and Raven's retribution in marking Raccoon as a thief.
*'''''A Fine Day Out''''' - A silent comic about a little lion exploring in the woods, and an encounter that results in an improbable confrontation.
*'''''They Sit So Still''''' - The closing monologue exerpted from the stage play K2, delivered by a dying mountain climber considering his mortality through a metaphor about albino glacier foxes.
*'''''Inconsolable''''' - A series of one-off gags about videogames.
*'''''The Apex Predator''''' - A series of silent comics about a large lion juxtaposed into typical housecat scenarios: tape on his paw, exploring paper bags, chasing a ball of yarn, and sleeping in the sun.
*'''''In the Early Dark''''' - A silent comic showing the hunting practices of monoceri.
*'''''The Soldier and the Tsar''''' - A Russian folktale, retold with rats.
*'''''The Puppy who would be Pope''''' - An adaptation of a poem by Morris Stegosaurus.
*'''''Telstar''''' - A little bunny goes to space, and doesn't make a friend.

== Critical Reception ==

The Dawn Chapel enjoyed increased attention following the popularity of the one-off [http://dawnchapel.com/2010/07/firefox-has-crashed/ Firefox has Crashed], and was profiled, interviewed, or reviewed by the following sources:

* [http://www.fuelyourillustration.com/webcomic-wednesday-interview-with-b-root-of-dawn-chapel/ Fuel Your Illustration]
* [http://www.kqed.org/arts/visualarts/article.jsp?essid=33445 KQED Arts ]
* [http://www.digitalstrips.com/2010/10/digital-strips-216-horizons-watch-grumpiverse-and-the-dawn-chapel.html The Digital Strips Podcast]

== External links ==
*[http://www.dawnchapel.com/ ''The Dawn Chapel'' home page]
*[http://dawnchapel.storenvy.com ''The Dawn Chapel'' store]
*[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDawnChapel The Dawn Chapel on TVtropes]
*[http://belfrycomics.net/ent/16936 Belfry Webcomics profile]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Dawn Chapel, The}}
[[Category:Comics]]

The Dawn Chapel

2011-04-24T19:58:26Z

Astolpho: added links to reviews and interviews, more stories.

{{Infobox webcomic
| image = [[File:TheDawnChapel-2010-07-09-firefox-5.jpg|Firefox is about to crash]]
| title = The Dawn Chapel
| author = [[Astolpho]]
| url = http://dawnchapel.com/
| status = Weekly, updated Fridays
| began = November 2009
| genre = Short-form narrative
}}
'''''The Dawn Chapel''''' is a weekly [[webcomic]] created by [[Astolpho]]. It's an experimental effort consisting of a collection short stories 4-8 pages long, interspersed with single-page one-offs. All of the stories feature animal characters in some way.

== Completed stories ==

*'''''How the Raccoon Got His Coat''''' - An adaptation of a Seneca folktale depicting the wily Raccoon stealing treasure from Raven, and Raven's retribution in marking Raccoon as a thief.
*'''''A Fine Day Out''''' - A silent comic about a little lion exploring in the woods, and an encounter that results in an improbable confrontation.
*'''''They Sit So Still''''' - The closing monologue exerpted from the stage play K2, delivered by a dying mountain climber considering his mortality through a metaphor about albino glacier foxes.
*'''''Inconsolable''''' - A series of one-off gags about videogames.
*'''''The Apex Predator''''' - A series of silent comics about a large lion juxtaposed into typical housecat scenarios: tape on his paw, exploring paper bags, chasing a ball of yarn, and sleeping in the sun.
*'''''In the Early Dark''''' - A silent comic showing the hunting practices of monoceri.
'''''The Soldier and the Tsar''''' - A Russian folktale, retold with rats.
*'''''The Puppy who would be Pope''''' - An adaptation of a poem by Morris Stegosaurus.
*'''''Telstar''''' - A little bunny goes to space, and doesn't make a friend.

== Critical Reception ==

The Dawn Chapel enjoyed increased attention following the popularity of the one-off [http://dawnchapel.com/2010/07/firefox-has-crashed/ Firefox has Crashed], and was profiled, interviewed, or reviewed by the following sources:

* [http://www.fuelyourillustration.com/webcomic-wednesday-interview-with-b-root-of-dawn-chapel/ Fuel Your Illustration]
* [http://www.kqed.org/arts/visualarts/article.jsp?essid=33445 KQED Arts ]
* [http://www.digitalstrips.com/2010/10/digital-strips-216-horizons-watch-grumpiverse-and-the-dawn-chapel.html The Digital Strips Podcast]

== External links ==
*[http://www.dawnchapel.com/ ''The Dawn Chapel'' home page]
*[http://dawnchapel.storenvy.com ''The Dawn Chapel'' store]
*[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDawnChapel The Dawn Chapel on TVtropes]
*[http://belfrycomics.net/ent/16936 Belfry Webcomics profile]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Dawn Chapel, The}}
[[Category:Comics]]

User talk:Astolpho

2011-04-24T19:15:45Z

Astolpho: This discussion page was full of years-old argments, I hope it is okay if I just go ahead and blank it.

Babyfur

2011-04-24T19:09:22Z

Astolpho: /* Artists */ I'd prefer not to appear on this page anymore.

A '''babyfur''' is a member of the [[furry fandom]] who enjoys roleplaying younger characters. They may also be an Adult Baby and/or [[Wikipedia:Diaper Lover|Diaper Lover]] (collectively known as AB/DLs), or is otherwise involved in [[Wikipedia:Infantilism|Infantilism]]. There are many different types of furs in the babyfur community, each focusing on different aspects and roles. Like [[furry]] in general, babyfur culture involves a good amount of [[role-playing]] (either light or heavy), both online and in the real world.

The community has been growing more and more popular since the mid- to late 90's. While the community itself is still part of the furry fandom as a whole, it is large enough to present sufficient leaders, politics and drama to give the community a nearly independent feel to it.

Role playing babyfurs will most often take on the role of a furry character in his/her infancy or childhood. Common roleplaying themes include "cute" [[clothing]] (onesies, footy pajamas, overalls, diapers) and a child's environment such as a nursery or day care center, complete with cribs, high chairs and babyish decor. A few babyfurs lucky enough to afford the privacy and devotion will set up adult nurseries to role play as children in real life. A sexual subset of this type of roleplaying is known as [[ageplay]].

[[Image:Rieva-little.JPG|thumb|350px|right|Babyfurs in a Nutshell.<br\>Art by [[LoupGarou]] [http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/LoupGarou], character by [[Rieva]]]]

==Terminology==
===Babyfur roles===
There are a few sub-groups within the babyfur community which are often described with the following terminology :

*'''Babyfur''' : Used to describe the group as a whole, however, specifically it refers to someone who roleplays as younger characters—up to the human equivalent of toddler age. Baby paraphernalia is likely to be involved for this group and roleplay speech is often either in gibberish or very basic speech.
*'''Lilfur (littlefur, kidfur)''' : This is a person who roleplays as a child character. Characters identified as lilfurs tend to be between their toddler and teen ages. Diapers and other baby paraphernalia may or may not be involved. Role played speech is usually more refined at this point, but still somewhat juvenile.
*'''Diaperfur''' : This is a person who roleplays as an adult character who still either requires or chooses to wear diapers. Role played speech and actions are consistent with an adult. The person may also roleplay an adult character who has mentally regressed back to a younger state, but still has an adult physical form.
*'''Sissyfur''' : This is commonly misunderstood as a person who roleplays a [[male]] character, either adult or child, who is forced to dress and act as a young [[female]] character. Truthfully, a sissyfur is anyone, male or female, who enjoys regression, leaning toward a very feminized and docile or submissive look and attitude.
*'''Caretaker''' : As the name suggests these are the people who roleplay caretaker characters, a 'mommy' or 'daddy' figure for other babyfurs.

Many people don't identify with one single group, but can change roles depending on the situation and who they are interacting with. It's also not uncommon for complex lineages (for example siblings, parents, etc.) to be set up among other babyfurs so that roles can be defined.

==Definition of AB/DLs==
These are general non-furry terms but are useful to understand in this context.

*'''Adult Baby''' (AB) : A person that enjoys regressing back to being a baby. Beyond regressing using physical or environmental changes (such as diapers, clothing, and settings), they also mentally regress, taking the mentality of a baby. These are the equivalent to 'babyfurs' or 'lilfurs' when crossed with [[furry]]. Teenagers who are Adult Babies will sometimes refer to themselves as Teen Babies (TBs).

*'''Diaper Lover''' (DL) : A person feels a strong desire to wear or use diapers, usually without physiological necessity. These people, unlike AB's, will usually not regress physically (adopting a baby form) or mentally. These tend to be the equivalent of 'diaperfurs' in the babyfur community. For some DLs, but not all of them, there is a fetish connection to the diapers. They will sometimes take the submissive role to a caretaker in sexual play, and the caretaker will take a dominant role.

*'''Infantilist''' : Essentially, [[Wikipedia:infantilism|infantilism]] regards any person who enjoys regressing to the mental age of an infant or toddler, and may or may not involve diapers and other baby paraphernalia.

==Baby things (and why)==
From the Adult Baby (AB) angle of AB/DL, regressing individuals prefer to behave and be treated as much like a baby or toddler as possible. To do so successfully achieves in many babyfurs a comforting, secure or blissful feeling. Various paraphernalia help to satisfy these preferences:

===Clothing===
Many babyfurs enjoy wearing all sorts of clothing. Some say the cuter it looks, the better it is. Such articles of clothing include the following :
*[[Wikipedia:Overalls|Overalls]]
*[[Wikipedia:Shortalls|Shortalls]]
*[[Wikipedia:Booties|Booties]]
*[[Wikipedia:Dresses|Dresses]]
*[[Wikipedia:Onesie|Onesies]]
*[[Wikipedia:Pajamas|Pajamas]]
*[[Wikipedia:Pants|Pants]]
*[[Wikipedia:Footed sleeper|Footed sleepers]]
*[[Wikipedia:Mittens|Mittens]]
*[[Wikipedia:Bows|Bows]]

Many male babyfurs find they enjoy being dressed as little girls as well, and are sometimes called ''sissyfurs''. The classic baby bonnet (seen frequently in certain [[Looney Toons]] episodes) is not very common among babyfurs, which might be attributed to the fact that modern society doesn't find real babies wearing them either.

===Plushies and toys===
Just like clothing, interacting with [[plush toy|plushies]] and toys is very contributive to the cub experience. Toys range in age from baby toys to toy cars and action figures. As long as cubs get to interact with one another though, toys are not always the focus in a roleplay.

===Objects===
A toddler's life is not complete without items such as [[Wikipedia:Infant bed|cribs]], [[Wikipedia:Baby transport|walkers]], [[Wikipedia:Stroller|strollers]], [[Wikipedia:High chair|high chairs]], [[Wikipedia:Car seat|car seats]]/[[Wikipedia:Infant car seat|booster seats]], [[Wikipedia:Pacifier|pacifiers]], [[Wikipedia:Baby bottle|baby bottles]]/[[Wikipedia:Sippy cup|sippy cups]], [[Wikipedia:Baby powder|talcum powder]] and [[Wikipedia:Bubble bath|bubble baths]]. Many babyfurs use these objects in online roleplay and would love to be able to use them in the real world.

As well as physical objects, some babyfurs find a keen interest in actions like [[wikipedia:blowing a raspberry|blowing a raspberry]], being held, or watching old television shows that are no longer available on TV. Many old children's shows such as 80's and early 90's cartoons on [[Wikipedia:Nickelodeon|Nickelodeon]] were the same shows some babyfurs watched when they were little, and reminiscing about them leaves a nostalgic warmth.

===Diaper usage (and why)===
Diapers are an item frequently used while "cubbing out". Like other aspects of babyfur, this can be done in the virtual world, the real world, or both. There are many babyfurs, however, that while they will wear diapers in online roles, do not in real life. Many babyfurs will wear diapers in real life for a feeling of security and comfort, but will not use them for their intended purpose. At the other end of the spectrum, there are some babyfurs that, either by choice or by necessity, wear and use diapers all the time.

Why babyfurs wear, and possibly use, diapers in the real world is varied. For some, they are forced to wear them because of a medical condition and have no choice in the matter. These people have often blended their real life situation with that of their furry persona. For others, it is a way they can regress into their [[fursona|furry persona]]'s age. Some others see the diapers as a connection to their furry persona, paralleling a [[tail]] or [[fursuit]] in the general furry community.

The wearing (and especially the use) of diapers in the real world are at the heart of many issues that some members of the furry community in general have with the babyfurs. For example, it is not generally considered appropriate for a diaper user to soil themselves at a [[convention]] in the presence of other [[furry fan]]s - or to put themselves in a situation where this is likely to happen - yet individuals have been known to do this, to the detriment of the group's reputation.

==Babyfur behavior==
When cubbing out in both the real world and in online roleplaying, the level of connection to the role will vary between each player. Some babyfurs will become so involved and yearn for such an authentic childish mentality that they will use speech impediments and [[Wikipedia:baby talk|baby talk]] to communicate. Very few babyfurs make a habit out of using babytalk in the real world, similar to a [[Wikipedia:gay lisp|gay lisp]]. Depending on the situation, a babyfur could even develop a habit of whining or crying to get what he/she wants from a caregiver or another roleplayer.

In light online [[role-playing]], babyfurs may toddle, crawl and wag their tails playfully while the sounds of crinkling diapers abound. Pouncing, giggling, cuddling, [[snug]]gling and tummy rubbing ensue with the maximum possible level of cuteness.

Child-like behaviour, baby animal sounds and an emphasis on [[cuteness]] can be found among some [[furry fans]] when among themselves, even those who don't call themselves babyfurs and who don't participate in other babyfur activities described here, such as diapers or baby clothing.

While most babyfurs are closely attached to the development of young [[human]]s, a different approach can be found in online [[role-play]], where newborn [[zoomorphic]] and [[anthropomorphic]] [[characters]] often grow up at a similar pace as wild animals, doing without accessories such as diapers and learning to walk in a short time. This has the practical advantage of sooner getting into an age that allows interesting role-play even for non-babyfurs when playing a character since birth. As in nature, opinions on when a character can be considered adult vary greatly.

===Cubbing Out===
"Cubbing Out" is a general term used by the community to describe roleplaying as a babyfur character. This can either be roleplay in the virtual world or the real world. Usually it will involve one or more regressed characters or people interacting with each other or with a caregiver.

"Padding" and "Getting Padded" may also refer to cubbing, in particular regarding to being diapered.

===The caregiver's role===
Caregivers (or caretakers) are the 'mommy' and 'daddy' figures in the roleplay. For the most part, they interact with other babyfurs as a mother or father would with their child. This can include playing with, cleaning or disciplining the younger character.

===Babyfurs at furry conventions===
Just like furries in general, babyfurs go to [[convention]]s to spend time with friends and express their [[furriness]]. For many, that includes their babyfur aspects too. One may see many babyfurs dressed in juvenile clothing and with various paraphernalia because that is part of how they choose to express themselves. To some babyfurs, dressing in such a way is no different than other furries wearing ears, tails or fursuits.

At many [[convention]]s, hotel rooms are set up as gathering places for babyfurs to socialize privately, and many conventions now have unique babyfur rooms/parties available, instead of relying on the same people to run the same parties at every con. Two of the most notable are the [[C'ubhouse]], run by [[LilPup]], as well as the [[Cub Hub]], a new room run by any of its core members ([[FoxCub]], [[Natasha Softpaw]], and [[Scritchwuff]], currently) who show up for a particular con.

===[http://www.swiftsden.net/bfpbg_v1_2.pdf Babyfurs Public Behavior Guidelines v1.2a]===

==History of the babyfur community==
*'''1995''' - [[Proxima Centauri]] opens [[The Nursery]] on [[FurryMUCK]].
*'''1995-01-13''' - Proxima Centauri runs the first official "AB/DL Furry" convention gathering at [[ConFurence 6]], though unsuccessful.
*'''1995-08-04''' - [[BitterGrey]] opens [http://understanding.infantilism.org Understanding Infantilism], then known as "BitterGrey's Den," a website for ABDLs and Furries.
*'''1996-09-09''' - Proxima Centauri officially opens [http://www.nurserytails.ca Nursery Tails].
*'''1997''' - [[Snuggems]] opens the FurryMUCK DayKare and Bottoms-Up Diaper Company.
*'''1998-01-15''' - Snuggems runs ''The Nursery'', the first successful convention gathering for babyfurs, at [[ConFurence 9]]. The Nursery has been held at 18 furry conventions.
*'''1998-07''' - [[Chipper]] and [[OshKoshFox]] create [[babyfurs (IRC)|#babyfurs]] on [[YiffNet]].
*'''2000-05-20''' - [[Kasi Frost]] and OshKoshFox create the Babyfurs mailing list on One Groups.
*'''2000-05-18''' - [[Ray_Ferret]] creates #littlepaws on YiffNet after heated disagreements on #babyfurs.
*'''2000''' -[[OzzyFox]] creates #nowhere_grotto on YiffNet as an alternative to #babyfurs and #littlepaws. The new channel grows to rival the size of #babyfurs, but falls before #babyfur is created in 2004.
*'''2001-07''' - [[LilPup]] runs the first [[C'ubHouse]] at [[Anthrocon]].
*'''2002-11-02''' - [[TF Baxxter]] officially opens the [http://community.livejournal.com/babyfur/ Babyfur Community] on [[LiveJournal]].
*'''2004-07''' - [[Ludwig]] creates #babyfur as an alternative to #babyfurs, now on [[FurNet (IRC)|FurNet]], to allow users to chat with fewer rules and regulations.
*'''2004-09-13''' - The Babyfurs mailing list, having moved to Yahoo! Groups, is deleted by Yahoo! and is revived as "Babyfurs_part2."
*'''2004-12-11''' - Yahoo! again deletes the mailing list, and the group moves to [http://clubs.wanadoo.co.uk/group/group.cfm?GID=2982050 Babyfurs on Smartgroups].
*'''2006-11-30''' - SmartGroups ceases service. Babyfurs mailing list ceases to exist after over six years. The Babyfur LJ community eventually replaces mailing lists as a central babyfur community center.
*'''2009-02-14''' - #babyfur is removed from furnet for making fun of a recently dead furry.
*'''2009-02-24''' - [[Ludwig]] moves #babyfur to anthrochat after being banned from furnet along with the other owners of #babyfur
*'''2011-01-07''' - [[Ludwig]] nukes the remains of #babyfur into submission due to it's incurable cancer, and thus a reign is ended.

==Notable babyfurs==
{{Dubious}}
The following babyfurs are among the most known and respected in the furry fandom, recognized here for their contributions and devotion to the babyfur community:
*[[BabyTiger (person)|BabyTiger]] has been a member of the babyfur community since 1998, A Canadian Babyfur who has a strong presence at the Canadian conventions such at [[furnal Equniox]] and [[FurFright]], as well as organizing and hosting BabyFur gatherings. He also works and helps out with newer babyfurs in the community, making them feel welcomed and lending a hand to any who need the help. He also attends many furry gatherings in the USA, such as AC and FC. In the furry fandom he is also the technical director at [[Anthrofest]].

*[[FoxCub]] founded the Cub Hub mixer parties held at furry cons, which have been well-received by the babyfur community and the furry community alike. He's organized numerous local babyfur parties in the Pittsburgh area, and has been directly involved with most of the babyfur parties held at furry cons for the past decade. Recently, he began building high-quality cribs, high chairs, and other AB furniture, providing samples of his work at babyfur room parties at Anthrocon.

*[[Karis]] owns and maintains [[Karis' Playground]] [http://karisplayground.com/], featuring a large collection of babyfur and AB/DL comics by artists of all rank. Karis was the first person to make babyfur/diaper art available at furry conventions, thus pioneering the community known today as "Babyfurs."

*[[LilPup]] ran and managed the [http://babyfur.com/cubhouse/ Babyfur C'ubhouse] at furry conventions for babyfurs to get together and have fun, before the Cub Hub and other babyfur parties gained prominence. Like Swift and Orca, LilPup works to improve the relationship between babyfurs and non-babyfurs at conventions and to help babyfurs maintain a positive reputation in the furry fandom.

*[[Ludwig]], though not as prominant now as he has been in the past, is often credited with the concept of 'Ironic Babyfurs'. His channel, #babyfur, was once a major lifeline for the Ironic Babyfur community. He is often connected with anti-babyfur sentiment and is a known troll.

*[[Orca (person)|Orca]] is a former moderator for the Babyfurs mailing list. He maintains an external file archive for the mailing list. He routinely reports links to interesting or humorous online articles relating to AB/DLs. Orca is also the famed inventor of the [http://orcinus.dynip.com/AB_DL/Orca_Stack/index.html "Orca Stack."]

*[[Proxima Centauri]]'s name is perhaps the first name known to newcomers to the babyfur community as they search to satisfy their newly found interests. Proxima runs [http://www.nurserytails.ca Nursery Tails], one of the longest running AB Furry pages, dating back to 1997 (before the term "babyfur" had existed) and featuring thousands of babyfur art, fiction and multimedia files. Though it is in dire need of a new layout, the webpage still runs strong today.

*[[Swift Fox (person)|Swift Fox]] has been a member of the babyfur community since its inception in the mid to late 90's. He writes babyfur fiction, was owner and moderator of several iterations of the Babyfurs mailing list. ([http://www.swiftsden.net Swift's Den])

==Babyfur art and literature==
A few of the authors and artists in the babyfur community are:

===Artists===
*[[Marci McAdam]] is probably the most popular [[artist]] in the babyfur community. Although not a babyfur herself, her ability and open-mindedness make her one of the most recognizable and well loved artists in babyfur circles. It is often said that a fur isn't officially a babyfur until they have purchased a badge or commission from her. Marci's babyfur art is for sale at her husband's website, Karis' Playground - other art is located at [http://furries.frithcat.com/ Marci McAdam's Furries]. Due to professional time constraints, Marci only takes a few fandom commissions at a time, mostly at [[convention]]s.
*[[BushyCat]] appears at several furry conventions and is well known for her humorous-yet-innocent take on babyfurs as well as other alternative genres of furry art. Some of her creations have more human-like qualities than other artists tend to portray in their characters.
*[[Jade Fox]] The majority of his work is based on his own or other babyfurs' characters. His drawings focus on the most treasured aspects of childhood and include innovative clothing design. [http://www.furryjadefox.com/ Furry Jade Fox]
*[[Kelvin the Lion]]'s works include the progressive webcomic ''[[Nivlek]]'', about the "weird" adventures of Nivlek the [[snow leopard]], who enjoys wearing diapers and eating. [http://www.geocities.com/kelvinthelion/index.html Kelvin's Furry Den]
*[[OzzyFox]], a student of animation at the Art Institute of Houston, produces work that ranges from cuddly-cute to controversial and mature. [http://foxcrib.sk1p.com/ Fox Crib]
*[[IkazuchiFox]] (commonly known by friends as "Ikajuicy") is found in the definition for "ubercute" listed in the [[Wikipedia:Urban Dictionary|Urban Dictionary]].
*[[Cargo Weasel]]'s art leans strongly toward the "DL" side of "AB/DL," showing off mature diaper-related concepts that fit with his coloring and shading style. His art was featured on a now-defunct mailing list, but can still be found on his website: [http://www.cargoweasel.com/ Cargo Weasel: Art Complex]
*[[Familliar]] is a regular at [[Guppy]]'s [[Bluefurry Oekaki|Bluefurry]] [[oekaki]] board. Familliar regularly draws pictures of both his own character creations as well as that of his commissioners in his own charmingly creative and endearing way. His artwork can be found at: [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/familliar/ Familliar's FA website].
*[[Aramitz]]'s artwork focuses almost exclusively on the "DL" side of commissions for the babyfur community. His style features bold, thick inking lines set against cell-shaded coloring. Aramitz maintains galleries at all major furry art websites, [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/aramitz/ including FA].
*[[TaviMunk]] is a traditional and digital artist whose work is intended to reflect the joys and fun of childhood and babyhood, using bright colors and warm, innocent expressions and actions. Tavi keeps his art at a G-PG level, and takes [[commission]]s.
*[[Hexaod]] is one of the newest of artists to enter into the babyfur scene. His art style focuses on the more clean and more "mature" side of babyfurs. [http://furaffinity.net/user/hexaod Hexaod's FA website]

===Art ''about'' babyfurs===
Some [[furry fandom]] artists have covered the topic of babyfurs, typically taking the same line as [[:Category:Media coverage|external commentators on the entire fandom]]:

*''[[West Corner Of the Park (comic)|West Corner Of the Park]]'''s coverage has been [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20051002 generally] [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20051016 negative], although they did make an exception for the [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20060521 Pink Panzer]

===Writers===
*[[CS Fox]], also known as Kit Fox and Cyprus Sygial, is possibly the best known babyfur writer in the community. His works are the biggest features in the stories section at Nursery Tails, and since his submissions to Proxima's site he has gone on to host his own website showing off babyfur fiction of his own and by newer babyfur writers. The latest rendition of CS Fox's site, [http://www.foxtalestimes.com/ Fox Tales Times], is being completed as this article is written. Its biggest feature is CS Fox's renowned AB/DL RPGM2K-based game, Weston Academy. The website also sports plenty of comics and art related to the RPG.

*[[Firemane]]'s fiction is prominently featured on CS Fox's fiction page.

*[[Fieval Mouse]]'s work is still favored by many furs. His stories are roughly 5 years old and are found on Proxima's Nursery Tails, featuring illustrations by Doodles.

*[[Athalon]] is another notable furry writer who has written the lightly famous [[The Milkshake Club]].

==Babyfur as a paraphilia==

===Babyfurs and pedophilia===

Like other furry fans, babyfurs often exhibit sexual attraction to anthropomorphic animals by participating in [[TinySex]]. But because this usually involves adult players [[roleplaying]] sexual situations involving prepubescent characters, the question of whether babyfurs are [[Wikipedia:Pedophilia|pedophiles]] often arises.

Babyfurs generally assert that roleplaying as underage characters doesn't imply sexual attraction to such characters. For example, some roleplay as young furries due to a longing to be young again, and have no sexual element to their roleplay.

Of those that do participate in sexual activity, some are interested in (for example) the fantasy of submission to an adult figure. Those who have TinySex with other babyfurs sometimes argue that if there is no adult '''character''' involved, the activity is not pedophilia. Others may stress that since characters portrayed are not '''human''', it is not meaningfully pedophilia. Outsiders often disagree, since the activity still involves actual adults taking an interest in prepubertal persons depicted in sexual situations.

This debate applies equally to visual and written depictions of babyfurs in sexual relations, and disagreements are often intense, between those with concerns about pedophilia, those who feel babyfur is distinct from pedophilia (because of players' identification with characters or the species of those characters), and those who don't care who enjoys it just as long as they're not forced to see it.

===Babyfurs vs. non-babyfurs===
The concept of babyfurs is quite contentious with some members of the [[fandom]]. Some furries and non-furries who have identified themselves as babyfurs or were identified by others as being babyfurs may have acted inappropriately at [[convention]]s in the past. Such contentious behavior has allegedly included wearing diapers in public without using proper hygiene and trying to push uninterested people into babyfur roleplay, including sexual roleplay. These behaviors are frowned upon by the babyfur community in general, and such incidents, if perpetrated by babyfurs, are done by a small number of babyfurs within a larger babyfur community. The community in general adopted guidelines of conduct for how to act in public after a rash of such alleged incidents at conventions in an effort to police themselves.

Furries who dislike babyfurs may do so for a variety of common points, including:

*Grossed out by the concept of diaper lovers (or, in the aforementioned cases, by the smell)
*Concern that some babyfurs may be pedophiles
*Previous negative experiences with those who identify themselves as babyfurs or were identified by others as being babyfurs.
*Fear that babyfur behavior will be associated as a characteristic of the general fandom, especially in the media

While there is some conflict between babyfurs and the general fandom, such conflicts should not be overstated. The majority of babyfurs and non-babyfurs coexist quite well because the majority of babyfurs do not engage in the more extreme behaviors mentioned here.

==Babyfur online==
Babyfurs have a well established community full of art, resources, and as many modes of communication as the rest of the furry fandom.

==Websites==
====Informative pages====
Want to learn more about babyfurs, who they are, and why they are? These web pages may be helpful.

*[http://understanding.infantilism.org Understanding Infantilism] by [[BitterGrey]]
*[http://babyfur.com Online Babyfur Community] by [[LilPup]], [[Natasha Softpaw]], and [[FoxCub]]
*[http://orcinus.dynip.com/AB_DL/Orca_Stack/index.html How to make an "Orca Stack"], which are useful diapers for babyfurs.

[[Image:sr_secondlife.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Two babyfurs hug in the world of [[Second Life]].]]

====Art and fiction pages====
*[http://www.nurserytails.ca Nursery Tails] by [[Proxima Centauri]]
*[http://www.foxtalestimes.com Fox Tales Times] by [[CS Fox]]
*[http://foxcrib.sk1p.com/ Fox Crib] by [[OzzyFox]]
*[http://www.furryjadefox.com Furry Jade Fox] by [[JadeFox]]
*[http://www.karisplayground.com/ Karis' Playground] by [[Karis]]

====LiveJournal/Dreamwidth communities====
*[http://community.livejournal.com/babyfur/ Babyfur Community on LJ]
*[http://babyfur.dreamwidth.org/ Babyfur Community on Dreamwidth]

===Mailing lists===
* [http://www.altbabyfur.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/altbabyfur AltBabyfur]

===Internet Relay Chat / IRC===
*[irc://irc.furnet.org/babyfurs Furnet #babyfurs] (PG13 rating) - [http://www.babyfurs.org.uk website]
*[irc://irc.furnet.org/diaperfurs Furnet #diaperfurs] (Unrated) ([[diaperfurs]] WikiFur page)

===Bulletin Boards and Forums===
*[http://foxtalestimes.actifforum.com/index.forum Fox Tales Forum] (G rating)
*[http://www.adisc.org/forum/babyfur-littlefur/ Babyfur/littlefur forum] at ADISC.org

===MUCKs===
[[The Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon|The Treehouse]] on [[Tapestries]] is a common meeting place for lilfurs and ageplayers. Just teleport to ''secretmoon'' and you're there.

===Second Life===
Many babyfurs can be found in [[Second Life]]. A major meeting place for babyfurs is the babyfur [[island (Second Life)|sim]] called [[Cub Conclave]], created and run by [[Raven Welesa]].

[[fr:Babyfur]]
[[pt:Babyfur]]

[[Category:Paraphilias]]
[[Category:Social groups]]

{{Featured article}}

Talk:Concession

2010-07-08T17:45:04Z

Astolpho:

{{Featured-Comic}}

== Cracked ==
Should we mention that it appeared in Cracked's Worst Webcomics of All Time? --[[User:DrunkenChickenPirateGod|DrunkenChickenPirateGod]] 04:22, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
:Sure, seems like reasonable coverage. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

== Easter egg? ==
I'm not sure that it's appropriate at this point to describe the occasional use of hovertext as an easter egg, since it's a standard convention in a huge number of webcomics and has been for a number of years. At the very least, there should be words to contextualize it as such; the wording as it is suggests (to me at least) that it's meant to be taken as some kind of innovation that's unique to Concession, where it is really something that is unique to the medium of webcomics. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 17:45, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

The Dawn Chapel

2010-06-17T20:56:02Z

Astolpho:

{{Infobox webcomic
| title = The Dawn Chapel
| author = [[B. Root]]
| url = http://dawnchapel.com/
| status = Weekly, updated Fridays
| began = November 2009
| genre = Short-form narrative
}}
'''''The Dawn Chapel''''' is a weekly [[webcomic]] created by [[B. Root]]. It's an experimental effort consisting of a collection short stories 4-8 pages long, and all of the stories feature animal characters in some way.

== Completed Stories ==

'''''How the Raccoon Got His Coat''''' - An adaptation of a Seneca folktale depicting the wily Raccoon stealing treasure from Raven, and Raven's retribution in marking Raccoon as a thief.

'''''A Fine Day Out''''' - A silent comic about a little lion exploring in the woods, and an encounter that results in an improbable confrontation.

'''''They Sit So Still''''' - The closing monologue exerpted from the stage play K2, delivered by a dying mountain climber considering his mortality through a metaphor about albino glacier foxes.

'''''Inconsolable''''' - A series of one-off gags about videogames.

'''''The Apex Predator''''' - A series of silent comics about a large lion juxtaposed into typical housecat scenarios: tape on his paw, exploring paper bags, chasing a ball of yarn, and sleeping in the sun.

'''''In the Early Dark''''' - A silent comic showing the hunting practices of monoceri.

== External links ==
*[http://www.dawnchapel.com/ ''The Dawn Chapel'' home page]
*[http://dawnchapel.storenvy.com ''The Dawn Chapel'' store]
*[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDawnChapel The Dawn Chapel on TVtropes]
*[http://belfrycomics.net/ent/16936 Belfry Webcomics profile]

[[Category:Comics]]

The Dawn Chapel

2010-06-10T19:12:58Z

Astolpho: /* External links */

{{Infobox webcomic
| title = The Dawn Chapel
| author = B. Root
| url = http://dawnchapel.com/
| status = Weekly, updated Fridays
| began = November 2009
| genre = Short-form narrative
}}
''The Dawn Chapel'' is a weekly webcomic created by B.Root. It's an experimental effort consisting of a collection short stories 4-8 pages long, and all of the stories feature animal characters in some way.

== External links ==

*[http://www.dawnchapel.com/ The Dawn Chapel home page]
*[http://dawnchapel.storenvy.com The Dawn Chapel store]
*[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDawnChapel The Dawn Chapel on TVtropes]
*[http://belfrycomics.net/ent/16936 Belfry Webcomics profile]

[[Category:Comics]]

The Dawn Chapel

2010-06-10T18:58:04Z

Astolpho: Created page with '{{Infobox webcomic | title = The Dawn Chapel | author = B. Root | url = http://dawnchapel.com/ | status = Weekly, updated Fridays | began = November 2009 | genre = Short-form na…'

Talk:Mozdoc

2008-06-16T18:29:52Z

Astolpho: /* Removal of real name? */

== MUCK list ==
The list of MU*s from @action does not look legitimate to me, and the jokey tone of various other pieces in the same document does not reasure me. -- [[User:Sine|Sine]] 01:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Note that this article was written tongue in cheek. Although at the time it was written, Mozdoc had been banned from at least SpinDizzy, Unbridled Desires, and Furry Muck, (due to a hostile obsession with two characters on these Mucks,) the
reference to the @Action News [http://www.spindizzynews.org/newspaper101.htm Mozdoc Delights, Amuses Wizards With Inept Demands]ahould be taken with a grain of salt as that article was written tongue in cheek. Although it well summarises the situation, not all the statements or opinions in this article or others are always based in fact.

As it says at the bottom of that page, "The things reported don't have to have actually happened, (any more than anything that happens here does,) but make sure you don't overstep the social boundaries and rules of interaction that we have." It is in that spirit that article was written. Mozdoc had become, for a small muck like SpinDizzy, a very large, very annoying problem and the writer had become fruistrated with his actions and responded, rather than with vitrol and disgust, with humor. {{unsigned|Argon Hamilton}}

As a wizard on SpinDizzy, I'd like to make it clear that none of the wizards have encouraged or are involved with this particular effort to document Mozdoc's history. I'd also like to reiterate that the articles cited from in the newspaper should not be viewed as accurate reference information. Articles there are often humorous and stretch the truth to some extent. --[[User:Findra|Findra]] 04:42, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

:I'm readding MUCKs I assume to be true given by statements here and references found. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 13:09, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

==Exclusion==

Although there were personal attacks in it, I take http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Mozdoc&diff=next&oldid=135319 to be an exclusion request. I'll perform it in 24 hours unless there are objections. It would not affect references to him on other pages where he is a legitimate mention. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 07:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

: which part would you be excluding? as the [[mozdoc]] page seems to have been created to remove the problems from other pages. i was planning on writing up a 'moz&furbid' chronicle for it as well.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 08:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
::The [[Mozdoc]] page only, similar to, for example [[Alex Kitsune]]. Of course, if it's not the will of the community, I won't do it. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 08:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

:OK. So, here's the issue. There's this guy, and he is not a guy who appears to get on well with certain other people. He claims that this is an isolated case, but [[Talk:Kacey Miyagami#More background info on Mozdoc|evidence suggests otherwise]]. There has indeed been legal action against him in the past, although it has lapsed. He was allegedly removed from [[Further Confusion 2007]]. Further Confusion has yet to confirm this officially and I suspect they will not do so, however we have no particular reason to doubt the claim.

:Do we exclude? It seems like he's trouble, not just past trouble, and it's rather hard to decide just how much is idle posturing. Harassment ''is'' a crime when it is taken to extremes. I personally feel that his [[User talk:Mozdoc|indiscriminate use of death threats]] (often coming [http://goldfur.livejournal.com/50106.html?thread=477370#t477370 quite out of the blue] against third-parties) is something that really should continue to be noted somewhere as a caution to others. Realistically this article name is probably the place people will come looking. The attitude with which this "request" was made does not help. Does it need his real name? He's ghosted FC when he was banned, so it might be worth it for checking purposes. Thoughts? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
:::More "out of the blue" harassment: a comment on Mozdoc's [http://furaffinity.net/user/mozdoc FurAffinity page] from slyfox819 on 4/27/07 said, "What the hell was up with that hateful instant message you just sent me? If that's how you treat people who want to be friendly with you then you're never going to have any friends." [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 13:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
:: i would rather not see it removed. i have been putting off writing up about him on [[ayukawataur]], [[furbid-sf]] and it would also documenting on kaceys page as well, which would be almost a mirror of what would be on mine. what would go on furbid-sf would be similar, but there are other happenings which are not related directly to either of us. then one may have to consider the inclusion of information on goldfurs page, and each of the mucks that are able to be verified... and so on and so forth.
:: it would become a bookeeping nightmare that could be more easily covered on just his page. as is consistently stated. he did these things and wikifur is not about just showing the good side. it is about showing the what really happened. and i assume that means in an easy to read, easy to understand manner.
:: his name is not going to be hidden as long as the tro record exists, and as it is a matter of public record. there is no point in hiding it.
:: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 10:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::Vote against exclusion. As for real name, like I said on [[Kacey Miyagami]], no. He's a (verbal, at least) threat to people and shouldn't be allowed the privilege of being "hidden" from view. To use a common MUCK motto, ICA=ICC, buddy. You act a certain way over and over again, don't be surprised when you're forced to receive the less-than-fun consequences. Again, I reference [[Sibe]] - he wasn't granted exclusion, either. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 13:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::I would vote against exclusion for the same reasons we did not honor the exclusions for [[Sibe]] and [[Bart Bervoets]]. As I said in the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|Sibe article discussion]], "Just as a famous <nowiki>[</nowiki>or infamous<nowiki>]</nowiki> person or politician loses some rights to privacy in the general media by virtue of being famous, because the subject has affected many areas of furry fandom I think that the same applies."----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 13:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::I vote against exclusion too. It seems that the subject of the article has a consistent history of this sort of activity, and I'd rather not see it removed. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::I vote against exclusion. When I created this page, it was as an attempt to siphon all the drama away from the other pages so we can do things like unlock Kacey. I'm sure she would like to resume updating her wiki. All relevant information instead of being spread out on various articles can be consolidated here, such as stuff about Furbid. I'd really like to hear how this all really began. Also as well, we keep other not so illustrious figures on this project, aka [[Sibe]], to name the most apparent. All Mozdoc has done is work his way up to that level and he did it all by himself. He has threatened the lives of MULTIPLE people by now, not just Kacey.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 19:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::: i could write up how it all began. it will take a little while, but i do not mind much.--[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 20:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::::Please do. I think this way we can better understand why he is the way he is. I also wouldn't mind hearing his side of how it all started, but I don't think we can get a clear lower-case g-rated version from him that doesn't paint you two as the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 21:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::::: okay. like i say, it will take a bit to get to. and as most things i write here will probably be done in segments. i do not know if you can get anything from him. in all the years i have dealt with him, he has not been any different than you see here. he truthfully hates me and kacey, which is a bit beyond my ability to comprehend. he even blames me for his ban here, or so the communications i have received from him say. i do not know if he is capable of understanding cause/effect relationships.
::::: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 22:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
:I can see that the community came out strongly against exclusion. I won't be doing it at this time. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 10:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

You are SO full of shit. You miserable piece of shit mother fucking cunt sucker. You posted all of this shit and didn't think that I would notice? Oh you are sadly mother fucking mistaken you slut. I have read it and now that I have you've just made my fucking blood boil all over again with how you've meticulously detailed and documented every mother fucking thing that I've done wrong with you. How about we come to a fucking compromise here?

How about you destroy all that shit that you've bothered to remember, recall, save, catelog or post online, removing all of your shitty undeserved bans against me, allowing me back in onto Furbid since you don't have a god damn reason to keep me out other than the reason that you fucking hate me and own it and it gives you a hard on keeping someone like me out, and then, when all that shit is done, give me your phone number so that I can contact you when all else fails on IM's or some shit like that.

You just had to go and piss me off again didn't you? You could've kept your mother fucking mouth shut. You could've not even put that fucking shit in on Kacey's page, you know that you little cunt? You could've just shut that shithole in your mother fucking face and stop it from spewing shit all over the god damn place, and had that happened, I wouldn't be so pissed the fuck off at you right now and feeling my hands tense from wanting to punch that smug smile on your face clean off. You annoy me, you piss me off, and you can't take a fucking hint. REMOVE ALL THE FUCKING BANS and already we'd be on much better ground.

But NO. Your just like every other mother fucker in the god damn world. All that you can focus in on is right in front of your fucking face and all you see is me getting pissed off and yelling at you and that's all you ever fucking see. You don't bother to even fucking listen to the shit I'm saying and do as I ask, under the promise that once you do, THINGS WILL BE MUCH FUCKING BETTER!

I'm disgusted to even continue my existance as a 'taur player with your in the midst of it all. I'm disgusted and revolted at how much pull you have as a person over every fucking con, website, or little fucking thing that I try to call my own and have out at you in some fashion just so I can have the happiness of FUCKING YOU for once and getting away with it. You don't deserve Kacey, you don't deserve to own Furbid, you don't even deserve to fucking live. Your a god damn curse and all because of me posting some of your cunt sucking wifes work online you had to start all this shit. You could've just let it slide, you know that you little shit? Why don't you start letting it slide, remove your fucking bans, and how about removing all of your shit that you've posted online about me.

And then go fucking die.

How you mother fuckers like that? I better not hear any one of you people responding to this. I get the last fucking word in everything. I am determined to get my way and fuck you all until you leave me the fuck alone, let me be the outspoken person that I am, rant about what pisses me off the most, and not give a shit about it. Not a big fucking deal if you ask me, so fuck off and lock this forum so that no sacks of shit can post to it again. Especially you, Noriko.

--Mozdoc (added by [[User:85.10.128.6|85.10.128.6]] 01:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC))

Mozdoc, I doubt you'll ever read this... but I'll give it a shot anyway.

I have yet to see anything that shows WHY you went off on a hell-raising spree, at least nothing definative. Granted, ayukawataur in particular tends to be an a** - but a relatively minor one compared to all the other crap going on both online & off.

You've built up quite a notorious reputation so far. Now that you have, you can make a choice - to continue using that rep as you have been, or to change focus and use it to try and change how things have become in the world. I know from experience what such a reputation can accomplish. Lol, the very upper class "snobs" in my area who used to delight in pushing people around and throwing their weight around now tend to, as the saying goes, "walk on eggshells" and think twice about acting like a**holes towards others, simply because they are AFRAID of how I might come down on them. Hell, even the police who would look the other way at their antics & law breaking are hesitant to cross paths with or run afoul of me.

In spite of the way it sounds, I don't want you to think I'm bragging - it's a hard road & a hard life. But with all the crap I've seen I just couldn't stand by and let it go on, I had to do something about the unequal treatment.

With that said.....

Will ye join me? or will ye stand against me?

[[Special:Contributions/75.7.254.145|75.7.254.145]] 02:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

== Other controversy ==
Stuff to add to the article when I have more time (or if someone else wants to tackle it, go ahead): [http://www.ljseek.com/mozdoc_s4Zp1.html Mozdoc search] on LJSeek. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 13:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

== History ==
as per kendricks redtail request for information on the experience.

i am going to use here to add items in first until they can be put in by those who are better at writing than i am.
: * may 12, 2002 kacey and i were contacted by a fan, and a friend of jeremy, informing us that he was distributing her work, and was claiming he had permission to do so. he used various methods, including sending a zip file of all her taurs at the time over [http://members.aol.com/idahobob/taurlist.html idahobobs taur list]. previous that incident there were no watermarks on kaceys work.
: * may 12 i attempted to contact jeremy via email to verify. i received no response over a period of five days. after which i removed all of kaceys work from online to update with visual scarring watermarks and replaced them.
: * less than an hour later i was contacted by jeremy wanting to know why i had done such. after i explained to him his part in the choice, he started by telling me that i had no right to do such and demanded that i replace the images without watermarks. he further demanded that all images of kaceys to be listed in the future be free of any visual scarring so that he could download them and print them for himself, claiming her work was not worth what it was selling for. he further claimed that both kacey and i should be grateful for his actions as it would obviously make her more popular by getting her work into more hands. i of course declined.
: * he immediately responded with methods you see as similar in his actions here.
: * we decided to let him purchase one of her prints ([http://www.furbid.ws/images/administaur/cheetahtaur.jpg stretching cheetah taur]) off furbid. after he received it he contacted me claiming he now had another watermark free image and was going to copy it for distribution so that we could never sell another print like it as anyone who wanted it could get such for free. he was immediately blacklisted from future purchase.
: * it was after he found he had been blacklisted that he went from being belligerent to full death threats. not only directly to us, but was threatening our lives to other people, which was forwarded to us on a daily basis.
: * during all of this time i continually expressed a desire for him to clean up his language. the excessive use of profanity was making it complicated for me to understand him.
: * i decided shortly after this happened that i was going to take two actions. the first was i wanted to know who he was. in depth. if he was making threats against our lives, we needed to know who he was. the second was i spoke with a couple of lawyers about the situation. we were advised to sue him for copyright infringement, criminal copyright infringement, file a restraining order, and involve federal authorities for the death threats.
: * it took a while before we actually did something about it. during the interim time i learned about him. spoke with him many times. i also spoke with his birth father and his mother trying to find a solution that would not require doing something which would ruin his life. after a short period of time, on his mothers email account, the typing structure changed, which led me to contact her again directly. she explained to me she was no longer receiving email from me and feared jeremy was intercepting them. she also told me she feared the only way to handle the situation was to take him to court.
: * as we saw a convention approaching rapidly, we decided that it was in our best interests to file for a restraining order. we took the time to warn jeremy of our intention, and explained to him what it would mean and how it would affect him. he responded with further threats and told us we would never be able to get one as we had no grounds to get one.
: * in october of 2002 we filed for a restraining order in the los angeles superior court. an immediate effect 30 day order was put in effect until the actual hearing. after reading the logs of all communications the judge actually expressed fear for kacey. also, despite what jeremy claims, it was not i who filed the order. which anyone who reads it can see. i am named as a second party on the order. it was filed in kaceys name.
: * in november of 2002 there was a hearing. jeremy failed to appear, which granted kacey a win by default.
: * as jeremy enjoys pointing out, yes we did use the lawyer fees as a tax write off.
: * after jeremy was served with the order he immediately contacted me, violating the order. which i ignored. in fact i ignored him, as per the terms of the order until i took over furbid.
: * due to the terms of the order, jeremy was subsequently denied access to any convention kacey and i went to. this was because we needed to get business licenses to sell in areas which cons took place. this immediately made said locations officially places of business, which was also listed on the order as no contact. not all conventions were happy about this requirement. out of respect for the conventions themselves i do not wish to list them and what we went through with each. other than anthrocon.
: * prior to ac'03 kacey and i were approached by dr. conway. he wanted to know how it was that someone could have an order against kacey, and what it was she did to make jeremy file against her. apparently jeremy was attempting to use a slightly doctored scan of the order claiming he had an order against us and was trying to get us banned from the con. as the law required we keep the order with us at all times, we provided dr. conway with a legal copy and jeremy was banned from anthrocon. the next month dr. conway sent me a notarized deposition of the experience.
: * bit of humour - dr. conway stated his first thought was "kacey? what is she going to do? cute him to death?"
: * each year, despite his being unable to register, jeremy did attempt to both attend and ghost at conventions we were present at. on one incident he was almost caught by the police for doing so. san jose incident case/report #05-013-0926. he managed to flee the con and spent the rest of the weekend in a hotel across the freeway.
: * during all of this time he did make contact on various occasions which was ignored.
: * later i will add furbid into the timeline. and if need be flesh some things out more.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 07:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

it really was not until around 2004 when things really began to be a problem. shortly after it was announced by [[aatheus|jeff orr]] that i was taking on the job of [[furbid-sf|furbid]] assistant admin. jeremy began again his harassment in full. this was expected by both myself and jeff, and we chose to ignore it. however, when i took over as admin, the entire situation changed drastically.
: as jeremy had been still harassing through email, and other contact, it was suggested by our attorney to make a public [http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/furboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=9657778ea892d4b9da223414d4968893;act=ST;f=1;t=7 announcement]. this announcement explained that i was banning jeremy from use of the discussion board. at the time he was not being banned from the actual auction system. i will not publish exactly what was said, though it had to do with extremely (i imagine) painful sexual practices and how he intended to perform them on myself and kacey.
: it was his immediate response which led to his ban from the auction server. this involved the creation of multiple accounts nd continual harassing contacts. an example of accounts created follow
:: mozdocalicentaur
:: Name: A B
:: Address: C
:: City: D
:: State: E
:: Zip: F
:: Country: United States
:: Phone: G
:: Signature: FurBid-SF sucks ass. Everyone should switch to FurBuy.
:: Where Did You Hear About Us?: Fucking Aukawa
: this led to him being banned.
: he also began to use the internal message server to send messages such as:
:: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:57:31 -0400 (EDT)
:: What the hell is wrong with this stupid excuse of FurBid? I tried to log in as mozdoc and it says my account is suspended for whatever reason, so I create a new one, and now its suspended too. Who the hell is doing the administrative stuff over there? Unsuspend my damn accounts. I've done nothing wrong and whatever stupid issues the administrator has with me, drop it. Me using FurBid doesn't put me into any contact with you, so unsuspend me and let me bid on auctions.
::: forgive me for choosing the softer ones. even though i keep everything, i prefer to not have so much vulgarity.
: this continued for quite a while, which resulted in my locking his ip address, ip range, and eventually his isp. off and on he still manages to find a way on and gets locked when i catch it.
: after this he began a long campaign to harass me via aim, yahoo, and livejournal. again, i blocked him from online messengers where he created new accounts, blocked, new, blocked, new, etc. he also started having his friends message me to ask, demand, threaten and so on and so forth.
: he started taking images of my avatar and posting altered versions around the internet. this caused the loss of his livejournal, and later of his deviant art account - for images i linked to earlier on another thread.
: as you may notice, this is a bit more scattered as it mostly becomes a blur. i kind of stopped keeping perfect records about a year ago. there was just too much happening on a daily basis that to record all of it in a fashion that is legible and post able would have required too much time.
: there were numerous incidents which occurred at conventions. out of respect for the conventions themselves, i will not go into detail either.
: the tro? it was a conscious decision on my and kaceys part to let it lapse. we could have easily had it reinstated for another three years, which we were advised to do by most persons we knew. however, we decided that he deserved the chance to prove he could behave in a mature manner. i informed fc of this in an email on 12-20-2005 and asked them to handle things how they felt fit. and since then i have left each convention to handle it their own way. which i should note, i have no complaints at all about their methods and decisions.
:: i really do not feel like writing more on this at the moment. i am quite tired of this whole situation and would like for it to be over. however, i can not allow him to have what he wants or i open the gates or others to do what he has done. --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 05:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

== Removal of real name? ==

Exclusion is out. It's fairly clear that this sort of pattern over an extended period of time is notable enough to be recorded. However, I for one would like to see this series of events peter out rather than continue. It's been five years and I suspect both parties are kinda sick of it. I've read over the above, and it seems like a fairly meaningless feud at this point.

With this in mind, I propose that we keep this article (with all appropriate modifications based on the above) but remove Mozdoc's real-life name from it, '''''on the condition''''' that there be nothing that requires the real name to be used in the public interest going forwards. For the avoidance of doubt, "nothing that requires its use" would include things like the need to renew a non-contact order because unwanted contact and/or threats have continued, either offline or online. If there is further need to remove Mozdoc from conventions then this would also be cause for re-addition of the name.

The only thing that makes me willing to suggest this is that so far I've seen no evidence that he actually has the capability to make his threats a reality. To my knowledge, he has not been charged with a violent crime. There is a lot of posturing and a lot of bitterness there, and I would like to have a way to prevent those being expressed in the future. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 09:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

: i really have no opinion on this one. after all, his name is on the restraining order, and on many of the pages which are referenced. so removal would be a pointless gesture.
: it would definitely be nice to forget all of this. as i said before, i hold him no ill will. i am not capable of holding grudges. i never learned how. i will continue to document however. as it is history and others may learn from it to prevent from it being repeated.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 10:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

: Speaking purely from a personal perspective, I would urge you to keep Mozdoc's real-life name in this particular page. After following many of the links provided to past and more recent behaviour, they show that Mozdoc has sent death threats to numerous different people. History has proven that such things should never be taken lightly. Having Mozdoc's real-life name on the page would be a useful time-saver for such victims if they wished to go down any legal avenues. --[[User:Findra|Findra]] 17:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

: While it may be true, has it been shown that he's doing any of these recently? Frankly, the arguement that it is a time saver is null and void. In order to persue legal measures, one must feel that his threats would hold merit, meaning that they know who he is and that he has the ability to carry them out, so would be able to legitimately file a claim. Having the name here simply opens a route for harassment, be it due or undue, and is just fueling the fire. If he hasn't done anything in a while, which he hasn't, and if he continues to remain passive, I see no reason to keep the name here. Also, as you've said, if need be they can review the links if they so choose to dig deeper, as they are a matter of public record. The point remains that it is not necessary in the article. --Michichael 00:38, 12 May 2007

:: well, if you get technical, the moment he threatens another, and they have an actual fear, then by law his threats have merit. the law does not look at if they actually carried it out in that case. they look at intent. if a person is in legitimate fear, they have a right for the object of that fear to be stopped.
:: and, ummm. at the risk of sounding a bit repetitive. but he still harasses me at least twice a week minimum. he knows i can not just shut down my avenues of contact due to customer service issues. he also harasses me and my wife at conventions. and his threats remain constant against myself and others.
:: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 19:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

::: Well, you still don't discount my point. This site is for information, not to play tit for tat on a feud between the parties. The real name is not NECESSARY to the merit of the article as it pertains to the fandom. A argument that it aids in legal action is irrelevant as past actions are part of public record, cited, and available on your own wiki. This really seems far too petty for a wiki. -- Michichael 14:18, 14 May 2007

:::: please do me th courtesy of not thinking i have anything against him. because i do not have anything for him other than a very unhealthy dose of pity. for some reason i can not feel anything but such for him. and please do not accuse me of using this as a place to get back at him, because there is nothing to get back for.
:::: i am constantly asked by people he threatens about him and what they can/should do. wiki is an information source and people come here for said information regarding jeremy. not for information about me. they deserve to have the same information to find out about him without the legal costs associated with it that i had to go through. because i did not go through it for myself. i did it so the community would have access to information with which to protect themselves from future instances.
:::: and, as a note: [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Mozdoc&action=history here] should be more than sufficient to explain his recent behavior.
:::: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 21:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

::::: You still have yet to discount my point. If it is legal action they require, they can get it by contacting you directly, or by viewing the cited material. The direct posting of his name isn't necessary to the article, and has already been shown to cause anxiety to Mozdoc, which comes off as baiting, which has been pointed out elsewhere in this article. This is a private issue between you and Mozdoc, and it really does seem that you have something personal against him. Granted, I'm not defending his actions. I've told him numerous times that he needs to grow up with some of his comments, and would be happy to be a moderator if you two decided to attempt a discussion online. It seems to be that Mozdoc is trying to get back at you for perceived injustices, such as what's posted on this Wiki with his name, and you are continuing to try to goad him.

::::: It is all well and good to document and keep track for legal purposes, which are cited and referenced within the article, however, the inclusion of his RL name within the article seems irrelevant and really comes off as a personal touch of arrogance and "so there" attitude. I fail to see how the rest of the community cares what his real life name is, and if they do feel threatened by him, how having it here helps, over a freely available source elsewhere, through either you or the referenced sources. It's not necessary to the article, and your link to the talk page looks to me like, cleaning up his language, a request to remove it. So obviously you hit a nerve, and are milking it for what it's worth. This is a childish dispute, and really needs to end. Both of you. I'm not going to place blame on either side. I really could care less, but since seeing it, it does come off as an attempt to goad him. Further, I understand his concern about having his real name out there. I personally don't like having my real name available to people either, specifically due to harassment reasons. - Michichael 21:03 PST 15, May 2007

::::::Mozdoc has threatened to [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Mozdoc&diff=next&oldid=138555 kill Ayukawataur] at Further Confusion next year. Not only would I advise someone letting the FC staff know about these repeated threats (and Ayukawa as well), I once again reemphasize my opposition to removing his name. If he ever followed through on any of his threats, would you still support having his name excluded from the article? Because I'm not willing to take such a gamble in what seems to be a mentally less than stable person. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 17:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

::::::I agree with Spaz Kitty that Mozdoc's real name should remain, for the reasons stated above.----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 18:17, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

::::::: I agree that Moz is truly a "Special Child", but we shouldn't allow a doublestandard to be created, see: [[Lance Rund]]'s article, which was removed at his request, yet we still leave up articles about Moz and Sibe. If I have heard correctly, Sibe had also asked to not be listed. --Anonymous /b/ User {{unsigned|204.110.228.173}}

::::::::There is a single standard, and always has been: The consensus of WikiFur contributors. What you are seeing is that people may come to a different consensus in different situations, just like in real life.

::::::::Exclusion is a privilege, not a right. It has, however, historically been granted by default - that is, people have to give reasons why it should ''not'' be granted. This is because in most cases there are no such reasons. However, there have been several cases in which reasons were presented, and were felt by the community to be sufficient to deny the request for exclusion, and in some cases even a request to remove a real name. While it's hard to set a precise bound on these reasons, they have generally been along the lines of some kind of illegal action, the cause of controversy, and usually concern a recent or ongoing situation rather than a historical one.

::::::::People often consider there to be a [[Wikipedia:public interest|public interest]] which is served by having the article concerned up, too. For example, if an artist has been failing to do commissions, it might be considered wise to have an article about them which notes this, even if they do not want us to. It ''this'' case, the person concerned does not wish us to take note of his continued attempts to force members of the fandom to do his bidding by threats of bodily violence. I am not unappreciative of the view that there could be baiting on the other side, but as a practical matter, Mozdoc considers everyone who disagrees with him to be his enemy, and the mere fact that he has been denied access to FurBid as an aggressive act which must be remedied . . . "or else". He is not likely to be satisfied with anything but complete capitulation and removal of all contrary views, and I think the community has made it plain that this is not going to happen. No person's actions are above commentary by their peers except at the pleasure of those same peers, and it does not please us when a person keeps on threatening others with death when they've been told not to.

::::::::The situation of Lance Rund is somewhat different. He was excluded without fuss (as there was no such public interest in the material on the page about him), but ''also'' wished an item of information about himself to be removed from another article. This was the first time this had come up and there was [[Talk:Further Confusion/Eyes of the Night|extended debate]], the result of which was "it's generally OK to do that as long as it didn't matter exactly who the actor was". That is, his specific identity was tangential to the matter of fact. When you're talking about personal behaviour, that's obviously not the case - you can't just say "a popular artist" isn't doing their commissions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

:::::::I forgot to post here, but I agree as well. Insomuch that I am no longer going to attempt to defend his actions. (Read his talk page...) - Michichael 01:19 PST 20, May 2007

Considering the long discussion and apparent consensus on leaving in Mozdoc's real-life name on this article, I was very surprised to see that [[User:Rat|Rat]] had removed this from the main page. This is apparently not in accord with the 'will of the fandom'. I would like to propose that this change be reverted, unless [[User:Rat|Rat]] would like to justify this undiscussed change. --[[User:Findra|Findra]] 15:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
:The general impression I got was that while users were willing to remove it(admittedly with a few exceptions), there wasn't anyone willing to just go ahead and do it. If I've misjudged, I won't enforce removal if it's against the will of the community. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 16:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks for the response, [[User:Rat|Rat]]. My admittedly brief refresh on this thread suggested that [[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur]], [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]], [[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]], and I seemed to be in strongly in favour of keeping the name, but looking back more carefully I see that [[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur]] was offering no strong opinion either way. Only Michichael seemed to be strongly against it, although his most recent post (09:19 PST 20, May 2007) seems to suggest that he might have altered that position. Hence, I still feel that there is a consensus to have the name left in the article. [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]'s post seems to back up this position, I'd suggest. --[[User:Findra|Findra]] 18:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Personally, I don't mind the removal of Mozdoc's given name, under the provision already suggested by Greenreaper. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 18:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I vote in favor of removing his real name. Give the poor dude a break. He might be a fuckup, sure, but Wikifur is not a government agency or a public service, it's a privately run fandom resource that in my opinion is exercising authority it does not have by taking it upon itself to try to police the actions of individuals. [[Special:Contributions/24.6.68.79|24.6.68.79]] 18:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:Whoops! That was me. [[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== FC Removal ==

I can attest to Moz getting booted from FC2007 for taking at least one picture of something on Kacey's table. I was there when it happened. (Both the picture taking and getting booted part.)
-Ruddertail {{unsignedIP|24.83.69.143|06:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)}} (from User talk:Mozdoc)

:Yup, that information I can confirm as well. Although he was removed from the hotel completly for being in function space without a badge, as it had been pulled earlier. Not for repeted harassment. I ended up having to help him find a room elsewhere because of all this cuntwafflery. and in my hunble opinion on this matter, both sides are equally esculating the situation. Moz can't leave well enough alone, and the other side has been known to bait him for a response as well. {{unsignedIP|69.106.8.60|07:00 to 07:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)}} (from User talk:Mozdoc)

::I can't see any baiting here. All I see is one individual being completely unreasonable and unhelpful, and disregarding anything anyone else says. --[[User:IanKeith|IanKeith]] 18:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC) (from User talk:Mozdoc)

::: I don't know if baiting is the word, but there is definitely a doublestandard going on here, I observed all the assclownery that went on at FC; They were supposedly told to avoid each other, and Moz was the only one being held to that rule. {{unsignedIP|204.110.228.173|05:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)}}

== FurAffinity Documentation ==

I would like to note that I have added a screenshot of Mozdoc's "Hate Manifesto" from his FurAffinity user page. We may be deleting all of the content in his account soon, but thought it prudent and wise to document his words here. --[[User:blueroo|blueroo]]

== Army Reserve ==

The article asserts that Mozdoc was a member of the [[Wikipedia:United States Army Reserve|US Army Reserve]]. Mozdoc, on the other hand, asserts that he was "never in the fucking military". The direct source for the assertion has been removed, as has the Wayback machine's cache. However, it is still present in [http://72.14.209.104/search?num=30&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Blh&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.furry.org.au%2Ftaurboard%2Fmessages%2F430.html&btnG=Search Google's cache] as of this date.

While I do not particularly appreciate being lied to, I think it '''is''' fair to ask what grounds we have for keeping this seven-year-old piece of information in the article. It is not a crime to be a member of the reservists, and it seems like it is a legitimate item of personal information without particular relevance to his actions within the fandom that would require a specific reason not to be removed on request. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

: i have no problems with it being removed. i did not place it there, only corrected it.
: the fact of it being a consideration during the issuance of the tro is probably trivial as well.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 07:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

: While the post describing him joining the reserves itself is no longer online, [http://www.furry.org.au/taurboard/messages/468.html a followup is], describing his getting processed in. I think that the big question is how do we handle a situation where someone is actively trying to destroy evidence of past events? [[User:66.74.145.183|66.74.145.183]] 14:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Why's it of any concern to you whether he erases his past or not? I'd say just shut the fuck up and let him handle his own problems and keep your own nose out of all of this entirely. Everybody needs to just shut up and perhaps listen to Mozdoc for once. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:203.81.29.204|203.81.29.204]] ([[User talk:203.81.29.204|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/203.81.29.204|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

:The above message was posted through a proxy. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

== Multifurry ==

Mozdoc was banned from the [[Multifurry]] mailing list after being warned by [[STrRedWolf]], the list holder, not to dredge up any private converation and not to contact [[STrRedWolf]] again.

Okay, enough third-person talk. Yes, I banned him from the Yahoo! Groups Multifurry list. He was warned once to don't dredge things up in the list. He continued to do so. He says he's changed, but he's said that before to me over IM. But he won't listen. It's sad, an intresting character but a terrible player. [[User:STrRedWolf|STrRedWolf]] 17:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
:While Mozdoc may claim to have changed if he has he is still doing a remarkably good impressions of a creepy stalker type by trying to pester other people about their contact with [[STrRedWolf]], presumably to try and get them to relay stuff for him (I can't say for certain as I ignored his attempt to contact me). its things like this that make me wish for a Cluebat Over IP protocol {sighs}. [[User:Kirishala|Kirishala]]

== Problems with referencing ==

* Some things are cited to spindizzynews.org which has been admitted to be tounge-in-cheek style.[http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMozdoc&diff=135692&oldid=135690] My understanding is that spindizzy.org is okay as a reference, but spindizzynews.org is not.
* One reference is cited to http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:GreenReaper#Mozdoc but the link doesn't go anywhere. Putting aside whether we should use WikiFur itself as a reference, the link should be to a specific diff.
* Not a good reference "It is generally believed that these allegations are true." By who?
--[[User:Rat|Rat]] 05:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
:*Agree, though it might be worth keeping it around as an example of the reaction.
:*We should use WikiFur as a reference for actions taken on WikiFur.
:*By me, if you want a specific example. By others, too. Can it be proved? Not officially without AAE saying so, and they've said explicitly that they won't. Is it, in all likelihood, true? Yes. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:23, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
::*Tried to clarify the source of the information between the two articles. Based on further looking, I don't think there's a difference between the ''domains'' spindizzy.org and spindizzynews.org, just that specific articles may or may not be written in a humourous style.
::*Agree, WikiFur can be a source for things that happen on WikiFur. I found the specific diff that seems to be the source. I'm not sure whether it's a particularly good source, since the account has no other edits.
::*True, proof is difficult and can be a lot to expect. Even a link to a blog or forum post could be enough to let readers evaluate the sources on their own.
::I made some edits based on these points. If there are any mistakes I am happy to correct them. --[[User:Rat|Rat]] 07:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

::I have some comments on the [http://www.spindizzynews.org/newspaper101.htm SpinDizzy News] article cited here. I am the server wizard for SpinDizzy, and held the same post back in 2000 when the events mentioned took place (not hard to check if you want to). I'm not sure if I may use my own knowledge as a reference for Wikifur, but here is my analysis of the factual accuracy of the SpinDizzy News article.
::*The majorty of the statements of fact (as opposed to opinions) in the article are accurate. I did, indeed receive numerous emails from Mozdoc of the form indicated in the first paragraph, over a long period of time following his first and subsequent bans.
::*The second and third paragraphs about his hacking attempt on Argon's account, and his defence, is factually accurate. I was the wizard who searched through the connection logs at the time, and was present when he was confronted with the results.
::*The fourth paragraph is accurate (to the best of my recollection wrt the connection count). Once we noticed the 'Myana' character using an IP address known to have been used by Mozdoc, it quickly became obvious it was being used by the same person, since when the character was blocked and ask to contact a wizard, there resulted another email from Mozdoc full of expletives demanding to know how we knew it was his alt.
::*The list of mucks from which Mozdoc had been banned was purely for comic effect, obviously.
::*The sixth paragraph is factually accurate about the onslaught of e-mails. The rest of the article is a mix of fact and opinion that probably doesn't have any relevence to the Mozdoc page on Wikifur.
::In summary, it would be safe from an accuracy point of view to use the facts detailed above. Whether their use would also be in accord with Wikifur's policies for verifiability, I do not know. Fortunately, there are people in this thread much more well versed in that than I! I hope that this has helped clear up the confusion over the accuracy and satirical content of the SpinDizzy News article. --[[User:Findra|Findra]] 19:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the edit to the main page, Rat. I've edited it to remove some redundancy, and removed some ambiguities that were in there. I think it flows better now, but please feel free to change it further if you wish. --[[User:Findra|Findra]] 23:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

== analysis of mozdoc at fc'08 ==

obviously i am putting this here because i do not wish to edit the main page. i feel that anything i say there will be biased in one form or another.
: i had the honour of working with mozdoc during fc'08. though i can not speak officially for aae, i can give you my personal opinion.
: this year, he was not only an excellent gofer, but he was quite well restrained. he did what he could to avoid me, but since he was technically working under me for a while, there was no way he could. even then, until i approached him, he maintained as much distance as he could while still completing his job.
: when i approached him, he did seem uncomfortable, and requested the same things he always does, but he was mostly polite about it. almost as if he was unsure of if it was okay to ask.
: he did spend some time browsing kaceys table. he did not purchase any thing, and when she asked him if she could help him, he only replied a soft and sheepish 'no' and moved on.
: i would like to stress, i am not ready to give him an open book and start over, but i am willing to admit he was an excellent worker who was able to quite methodically reorganize the constore materials so that constore staff could better do their job, he makes an excellent (how ever abrasive) door guard, and i am told by friends who work in the art show that he did an excellent job there as well.
: i do not know if my attempt to breech the gap this year will help or hurt yet. though i would like it to be added to his page that he did behave himself quite well. it is only fair that we try to remain objective and point out that he is capable of behaving himself.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 22:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

This is getting annoying. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 08:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
:A non-admin on IRC gave him the impression that he could edit this page to his liking without knowing the background of the case. He should have known better but I'm responsible for not seeing that there was a problem and joining the conversation earlier. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

== Exclusion redux ==

Its about fucking time you people started to get annoyed about this. You know what could make it all better and make it all go away? HOW ABOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THE FUCKING FACT THAT I DO NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF YOUR LITTLE INBRED ASSININE EXCUSE OF A FUCKING COMMUNITY ANYMORE AND ASK THAT I BE GIVEN TOTAL AND COMPLETE EXCLUSION FROM THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF WIKIFUR. I WANT MY ARTICLE REMOVED, EVERY SINGLE MENTION OF MY NAME GONE, AND I WANT TO BE LEFT THE FUCK ALONE AFTER ALL THAT IS DONE.

How much more simple is it to understand? The reason that I continue to be pissed the fuck off at you little pinheaded little shit for brains administrators is that you just blatently refuse to see things my way and that the way I want things to happen will make life a whole lot easier for the rest of you if you just do as I ask and get it over and done with.

I have no fucking idea how my damn name ended up here in this hellish pile of shit called WikiFur, but I will see to it that it will be removed. It shouldn't take every single mother fucking one of you to agree that my article should be removed because it sure as fuck didn't take every single one of you to get my name on here. I demand EXCLUSION.

--Mozdoc

HELLLLLLOOOOOOO? I'm waiting for someone to get here and fucking talk to me since this place has been brought up again and its pissing me off all over again. Someone answer me and get my fucking name removed from here.

--Mozdoc

You know, there should be a hundred mother fuckers out there that have decided to watch this page for whatever fucking reason. Why am I not getting any responses at all from anybody? This is complete utter bullshit. Someone better fucking answer so that I can get my name off this "community".

--Mozdoc

Where are all the fucking people? God damn it already, someone fucking answer me and get my god damn name off of this piece of shit website already. I DO NOT want to be documented on any level at all and you will respect this wish to have me be excluded PERMANENTLY.

--Mozdoc

:Admins aren't on the place 24/7. And you'll get further in life if you learn how to say 'please' and 'thank you'. You've trolled me enough that I'm certainly not going to support any of your calls for exclusion, so you can take this up with someone else now and stop badgering me for the exclusion that I'm not going to grant you myself. Talk to GreenReaper, and try to not go the loud and rude route, and maybe you'll get some actual progress as a result. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 05:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

::He came to me first. The above is the result of what happened when I asked him to explain here why he should now be excluded. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 06:23, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

::Just for the record, "I should be excluded because I want to be", in such extreme cases as this, is not an adequate reason for such. Especially with the way this user has handled it. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 06:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually S.K., it seems that far too often in this day and age, being nice gets you nowhere. :( That's not to say that it shouldn't be tried, just after the first - or second - time(max) of being polite about it, one should be ready to drop the hammer.

a lot of people only seem to get the point when you slam them into the wall a few times. Being polite about it only gets a rousing "f*** you!" as a response. where the h*** did this country go wrong???

[[User:AnthroSamurai|AnthroSamurai]] 06:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

When will you people fucking realize that your pathetic piece of shit bans don't do a fucking thing beside piss me off worse than I already was before? You sound like you're the assholes that need to grow the fuck up. I DEMAND RESULTS, I DO NOT WANT TO BE FUCKING BANNED.

--Mozdoc

:Gosh, I just can't imagine how ''anybody'' could ''possibly'' fail to fall all over themselves obeying a capslock-and-profanity-ridden demand -- sorry, "heeding a polite request" -- from such a well-spoken, courteous, level-headed, personable, and all-around respected individual such as Mozdoc! What's that saying -- "insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results"? Sheesh...[[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 12:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I have been asked to give this a review. I have reviewed the article, and the evidence. I see little problem at this time with provisionally removing the personal name, but I recommend that this article otherwise stay. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 18:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Mozdoc's love notes via IM ==

I logged into IM tonight and found that Mozdoc had sent offline messages to me on ''two'' different IM services. I am documenting them here.

First, via Yahoo IM:

<div style="background-color: #eeffee; color: black; padding: 10px; margin: 10px;">mozcentaur 
8:48:24 PM 
YOU LITTLE PIECE OF MOTHER FUCKING SHIT! 
8:48:35 PM 
ANSWER ME YOU WORTHLESS FAG OF A MOTHER FUCKER. 
8:48:47 PM 
I'M FUCKING TALKING TO YOU YOU DICKHEADED MOTHER FUCKING CUNT. 

mozcentaur 
9:28:38 PM 
Answer me. 
9:31:31 PM</div>

Charming. And via MSN about an hour later, while I was still offline:

<div style="background-color: #eeffee; color: black; padding: 10px; margin: 10px;">mozdoc@yahoo.com
10:22:00 PM
ANSWER ME.</div>

I had to slightly massage the formatting on these, because my client (Adium) saves logs in HTML format. If anyone wants the raw logs, I have them up at http://rapidshare.com/files/115226319/mozdoclogs.zip.html

--[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 02:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

After several rounds of blocking Mozdoc and having him bother me under different screen names, I was finally treated to this. And yes, he really did type in all caps.

<div style="background-color: #eeffee; color: black; padding: 10px; margin: 10px;">moz40 
I DO NOT GO THE FUCK AWAY YOU PIECE OF SHIT. 
12:36:46 AM 
ANSWER ME NOW. 
12:37:12 AM 
YOU FUCKING BANNED ME FROM WIKIFUR FOR A MOTHER FUCKING WEEK YOU SACK OF SHIT. WITHOUT ANY REASON. I WANT MY GOD DAMN ARTICLE ON THAT FUCKING WEBSITE TO GO THE FUCK AWAY. UNDERSTAND? 
12:37:24 AM 
I WANT TOTAL AND COMPLETE EXCLUSION FROM THAT FUCKING WIKIFUR SITE IMMEDIATELY. 
12:37:43 AM 
THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD BE A LITTLE SHIT AND TRY AND HIDE FROM ME BECAUSE I WILL FUCKING FIND YOU. 
12:38:23 AM 
ONE FUCKING COMMENT BITCHING ABOUT HOW YOU'VE BEEN TREATING THIS ISSUE I'M HAVING AND I GET BANNED FOR A WEEK? YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT BANNING ME FOR A MOTHER FUCKING WEEK IS GOING TO SAVE YOUR ASS OR MAKE ME ANY MORE CALMER THAN WHAT I AM NOW? 
12:38:43 AM 
YOU AND YOUR MOTHERFUCKING BANS JUST PISS ME OFF MORE TO WHERE I WANT TO TAKE A FUCKING SHOTGUN TO YOUR HEAD YOU IGNORANT LITTLE PRICKS. 
</div>

Hmm... comments about how he's going to find me, and taking "a fucking shotgun" to my head... I'd say that's a death threat, or pretty close to one. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:44, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

:: He's been stalking the Fur Affinity staff and admins for the past week, going to anybody and everybody related to the site after he was perma-banned, making the same kind of threats. He used over a dozen IM clients to message and my admins, refusing to accept "no" as an answer and becoming increasingly hostile. --[[User:Preyfar|Preyfar]] 10:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
:: '''See thread:''' http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=19666

'''DAMNIT MOZDOC, COOL YOUR JETS!!!!! '''
The only thing your tactics will accomplish in this is EXACTLY what I outlined! Now calm the hell dowm before '''I''' get pissed! (And trust me, you are NOTHING compared to what I'M like when I get pissed!)

[[User:AnthroSamurai|All hail VLADUZ - the EBAY IMPALER!]] 01:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

== Ayukawa goading Mozdoc into further aggression? ==

I'm most likely going to recieve threats (From both sides) over this, but I felt it should be posted as proof of what's REALLY going on.

I recieved this by email this afternoon - it seems that my signature line has made me at least one friend in romania. :))

SpazKitty, you might want to pay extra close attention not only to WHAT your leader has said, but HOW they've said it. ;)

* again, removed under copyright violation *
: please do not make this an edit war.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 16:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[[User:AnthroSamurai|All hail VLADUZ - the EBAY IMPALER!]] 09:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

: please tell mozdoc that he did a nice editing job. also please may i remind him and everyone else, the contents of all discussions of im's with me are not public domain and are subject to copyright and may not be edited, or reprinted without my permission, as per a header in im's with me that has been conveniently deleted.
: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 17:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Lol, so that's your answer to everything, is it? That Mozdoc did it? I hate to burst your bubble, but unless he suddenly moved to Europe.... he wasn't the one who sent it to me. ;)

Seriously, both of you need to return to your respective corners before '''someone''' grabs your head in one hand, his head in the other, and conks them together.

You are actually just as guilty of keeping this feud going, by your constant additions and reworks and comments - I would STRONGLY suggest you take a vacation... as soon as possible.

[[User:AnthroSamurai|All hail VLADUZ - the EBAY IMPALER!]] 11:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

::: i would call your attention to the final line, which states the logff. that is indeed the time i logged, temporarily so that i could reboot this machine. in pacific standard time. the logoff shown is indicative of which machine it came from. if it was from an observer, it would also show his habit of blocking then unblocking, which he uses as a technique to say more without allowing the other party to speak. sort of a power thing.
::: what ever happened to your boycott?
::: again i remind you, contents of ims with me are protected under copyright and are not to be posted.
::: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 16:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:Ayukawataur: Are you indeed corresponding with Mozdoc in IM? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:: off and on i do. i mean i get spammed by him almost daily regarding this. sometimes i actually take the time to answer him, or at least to try and speak with him. or even to try and answer questions he may have.
:: it never occurred to me that anyone would take the time to seriously edit a transcript between myself and him, and then place it up as supposed evidence against me.
:: --[[User:Ayukawataur|Ayukawataur : FurBid-SF Administaur]] 16:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I actually changed the times(the only thing changed, I can assure you) - to prevent YOU from trying to track down the person I got it from. And yes, after reading that IM, you do strike me as the type to go all out in doing so - even if it's wrong. I'm sure that by now you've already "Yankee searched" me - looking for information to try to intimidate me with. Of course, if you DO try to intimidate me, it will be the biggest mistake of your life - Trust me, you DON'T want to declare all out war on someone like me ;)

And AYUKA, you DO realize that by removing it the IM, you make yourself look guilty as all hell - right???

[[User:AnthroSamurai|All hail VLADUZ - the EBAY IMPALER!]] 17:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:Please do not post other people's conversations here. You do not have the right to place such materials under the GFDL, nor is it a fair use of copyrighted material.
:Instead, here is a summary of the major themes of the conversation, which are not subject to copyright:
:* Mozdoc does not like Ayukawataur editing the article about him
:* Mozdoc maintains his initial action in posting Kacey's work to a mailing list without permission was legal; Ayukawataur that it was not, and that the claim that he had permission was particularly objectionable
:* Mozdoc says that Ayukawataur must be male because lesbians cannot marry; Ayukawataur replies that a legal loophole (involving [[Wikipedia:Full Faith and Credit Clause|full faith and credit]]) permitted her to marry Kacey in Nevada, which in turn allowed her to be a citizen and yet have her marriage recognized in Oregon (nullifying it being impossible since it would deny her citizenship, and remove Oregon's authority to do so)
:* Mozdoc insists on being unbanned from Furbid and having his fake accounts removed, Ayukawataur claims that to remove the accounts is not safe under the current database, and that other activities have intervened to delay the move to a new one
:* Ayukawataur has collected much information on Mozdoc, some of which is private correspondence, other collected from public records and investigation of Mozdoc's other activities, online and in real life; Mozdoc demands to see the correspondence with his parents, Ayukawataur refuses to give it to him
:* Throughout the conversation, Mozdoc was uncivil, making several crude sexual remarks and threats of physical violence. Mozdoc ultimately expresses the wish for Ayukawataur and/or Kacey to die, causing the survivor to suffer
:Mozdoc has claimed (as a argument for removal of this article) that he wants nothing to do with furry fandom. His insistence on being unbanned from FurBid suggests otherwise. This is unfortunate, as he has the symptoms of [[Wikipedia:Dissocial personality disorder|dissocial personality disorder]], and as there is no cure, the best thing for all concerned probably ''would'' be for him to have no contact with the fandom. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:39, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

GOOD! I FUCKING AGREE! HOW ABOUT GETTING MY FUCKING NAME OFF OF THIS FUCKING DATABASE AND FUCKING EXCLUDING ME LIKE I'VE FUCKING ASKED REPEATEDLY? BUT NO, YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT DECIDE TO FUCK WITH ME EVEN MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND FUCKING MORE! MY DEMANDS ARE FUCKING SIMPLE. REMOVE MY GOD DAMN NAME OFF OF THIS FUCKING EXCUSE OF A FUCKING DATABASE BEFORE I FUCKING FIND ONE OF YOU FUCKING PIECES OF SHIT AND KILL YOU TO PROVE MY FUCKING POINT THAT I'M SERIOUS ABOUT WANTING MY GOD DAMN NAME REMOVED AND WILL NO LONGER TOLERATE YOUR FUCKING GAMES ABOUT KEEPING MY NAME ON HERE BECAUSE IT SERVES AS A FUCKING "WARNING" TO EVERY FUCKING PERSON OUT THERE. I DEMAND THAT MY NAME BE FUCKING REMOVED FROM THIS FUCKING DATABASE RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

AND YOU, YOU SACK OF SHIT GREENREAPRER, NEED TO FUCKING UNIGNORE ME FROM AIM SO THAT I CAN CONTINUE TO TALK TO YOU. YOU THINK THAT HIDING BEHIND A FUCKING IGNORE IS GOING TO SAVE YOUR SORRY MOTHER FUCKING ASS FROM ME? YOU ARE SADLY FUCKING MISTAKEN. THERE IS NOTHING THE FUCK WRONG WITH ME. WHAT IS THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT DISSOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER? YOU ARE SO FUCKING FULL OF SHIT ITS UNBELIEVABLE. THE ONLY THING THAT IS PISSING ME THE FUCK OFF IS THAT YOU STUPID DICKSUCKING ADMINISTRATORS HERE REFUSE TO SEE THINGS FROM MY FUCKING POINT OF VIEW. REMOVING MY ARTICLE FROM FUCKING WIKIFUR IS SOMETHING THAT I WILL NOT CEASE AT UNTIL I GET IT REMOVED AS I'VE REPEATEDLY FUCKING DEMANDED. THERE IS NO REASON FOR ME TO GET MY GOD DAMN NAME ON THIS FUCKING ASS EXCUSE OF A COMMUNITY AND THERE IS EVEN LESS OF A FUCKING REASON TO KEEP MY GOD DAMN NAME HERE. I DEMAND MY EXCLUSION IMMEDIATELY. GET MY FUCKING NAME OFF OF THIS GOD DAMN FUCKING SITE. THERE IS NO REASON TO KEEP ME HERE AND I WILL NOT ALLOW YOU ASSSHOLES TO KEEP ME HERE AGAINST MY FUCKING WILL. THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON TO WARN ANYBODY ELSE ABOUT ME FOR ANY FUCKING REASON AT ALL AND JUST KEEPING ME HERE IS GOING TO MAKE ME HUNT YOU FUCKING SACKS OF SHIT DOWN UNTIL I GET WHAT I FUCKING WANT.

GET MY FUCKING NAME OFF OF WIKIFUR!
<snip>
GET MY FUCKING NAME OFF OF WIKIFUR!

Thanks for your cooperation with my demands.

--Mozdoc

== Banned again? ==

Apparently, Mozdoc has been banned again from wikifur... by [[Spirou]], with no notification as to why or any way to find out for himself.

Spirou, would you kindly reply and state the reason for the ban? I would have posted this on your talk page, but it seems that you have disabled the adding of comments on it.

[[User:AnthroSamurai|All hail VLADUZ - the EBAY IMPALER!]] 14:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

:Uh... Read above? --<big>''' [[User:Brushwell Clinton|Brushwell]] '''</big>Loves your face.[[User_Talk:Brushwell Clinton|T a l k]] [[Special:Contributions/Brushwell_Clinton|C o n t r i b s]] 15:24, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

:From the block log: <tt>00:23, 2 June 2008 Spirou (Talk | contribs | block) blocked Mozdoc (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 1 week (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked) ‎''(Intimidating behaviour/harassment: Take a break)''</tt>
:Spirou's comment was in reference to [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Higgs_Raccoon&curid=17916&diff=198347&oldid=197307&rcid=206633 this statement], which was posted in reply to [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Mozdoc&curid=40700&diff=198304&oldid=198295 this edit], which reduced about 14kB of one line repeated, down to its starting and ending lines, as can currently be seen above on this page. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 16:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the clear explaination Siege.

And Brushwell, the last I checked you were not an administrator here, or even a Junior Admin, so you would not have been able to positively answer the question. With that said, go back to dreaming up alternate histories for your character and shut the hell up.

[[User:AnthroSamurai|All hail VLADUZ - the EBAY IMPALER!]] 02:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

: Uh... Brushwell does not need to be an admin to look through user histories and answer a question.
: Also, [[WikiFur:No personal attacks|personal attacks do not belong here]]. Please do not make them. Thanks. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
::The block log is public. You could've answered your own question. And if you respond to answers with such comments, you may well find that eventually nobody will answer ::your questions. --<big>''' [[User:Brushwell Clinton|Brushwell]] '''</big>Loves your face.[[User_Talk:Brushwell Clinton|T a l k]] [[Special:Contributions/Brushwell_Clinton|C o n t r i b s]] 15:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Astolpho

2008-06-05T05:33:17Z

Astolpho:

Hello, I am rootdown. My big claim to fame on Wikifur is that I wrote the bulk of the entry on [[furry art]]. I also wrote about the [[Dobhar-Chu]] and meant to do a jillion more articles about cryptids and obscure creatures from mythology around the world, the ones that haven't been made famous (and boring) by anime, but I lose steam easily.

Also, I'm very leery of contributing to wikis these days because my edits always get reverted by smug administrators and I don't have a lot of patience for that sort of thing.

{{ContributorU|rootdown}}

User:Astolpho

2008-06-05T05:32:06Z

Astolpho:

Chat on the Internet

2008-06-05T05:09:22Z

Astolpho:

[[Image:COTI.gif|thumb|right|COTI Logo.]]
'''Chat on the Internet''', also know as '''COTI''', or '''Team COTI''' was an AOL chat room, and later also a PHPBB messageboard and [[LiveJournal]] community that were active between 2004 and 2006.

Its founding members were all friends from various small social MUCKS but decided to create an AOL chatroom in order to invite their friends who were not familiar with the MUCK interface or the client software necessary to use them. On the other hand; anybody with the AIM client could create and participate in COTI, and it enjoyed lively activity and a modest notoriety for the brief period of time that it was active.

COTI dissolved in the spring of 2006, as its membership splintered off into smaller groups, and all of its web presences were taken down after years of limping inactivity in 2008. Several ex-COTI participants remain active in the furry community.

[[Category:Chat rooms]]

Talk:Chat on the Internet

2008-06-03T18:38:14Z

Astolpho:

I'm curious to know what the reason for the revision was. I presented both opinions without bias. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 01:28, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:As you yourself have noticed, and wrote in your edit, there are people who DO consider COTI to be "furry-hostile" and/or "anti-furry," caused by the actions of certain "individuals" within it who are furry themselves,... It's these reasons alone (The "Furry" presence, and their fandom hostility) that COTI is recorded in Wikifur, under the "Anti-Furry" category. Duly noted is your point that your site is not Anti-furry itself (Which has been reworded in with elements of your prior edit.) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 03:20, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::The article now says that it is considered anti-furry (as a general statement) but is isn't considered anti-furry. If only some people have the first opinion, then that should be stated.

::Also, what level/percentage/whatever is necessary to have a site be considered to be anti-furry? ([[Category talk:Anti-furries]] may be more appropriate for this). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 03:40, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::Reworded it again,... As for ''"what level/percentage/whatever is necessary to have a site be considered to be anti-furry?"'',... Hmm, I couldn't say. What percentage did we use for the Burned Furs, PoEs, or SA Goons?. =( [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:06, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::::I don't know that a percentage ever was stated. I've thought about it a bit, though, and I believe there's a big difference. With all the three groups you mention, it is clear that anti-furry sentiment was a major part of their actions (or at least anti-''some''-furry sentiment - the Burned Furs are tricky because some of them held opinions that others did not, and as a result that article [[Talk:Burned Furs|has been contentious]]). However, CotI is a chat. It is not clear that a '''focus of the chat''' was talking about furries in a negative sense. I don't think it's appropriate to say that just CotI as a whole is anti-furry just because some of its members are elsewhere.

::::It may be that individuals are clearly anti-furry. That's fine, and should be easy to prove, and should probably be mentioned. However, there is no clear evidence presented that ''the community itself'' is anti-furry. Without that, it is a very strong label to put on an entire group. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 04:44, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, I have to say that some of the threads initiate in their forums, or when somebody post an COTI AIM log about furry, it's not precisely... "helpful" or "constructive" towards fandom. I understand Rootdown's that whatever originates from within COTI is out of his control,... but so does Lowtax,... and Calbeck. Even Rootdown points out that there is a perceived hostility permeating from the group, but, since it's an open forum, if the public forms an "opinion" about the place, the only thing Wikifur is doing is just writing down for perusal the "overall picture."

:::::Without the anti-furry hostility, and the fact that some of it comes from certain furries from within, COTI would be just another chatroom, and a moot point to Wikifur [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:01, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

COTI as a chat room ceased activity in 2006, and the boards tapered off activity around that time too, despite a few efforts from some of the regulars to kickstart it again. The boards, domain name, wiki, and livejournal are gone now. You may want to update the article to reflect this. [[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Rootdown

2007-06-26T19:28:27Z

Astolpho:

Guys, I was going to write a completely separate entry for Astolpho, especially because the artwork I do as Astolpho is so different from the artwork I do as rootdown.
:What's stopping you? :) [[User:Almafeta|Almafeta]] 16:19, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:: dogg I had to go to class! --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 17:53, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::Where's your priorities. ;) --[[User:Rama|Rama]] 17:55, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Fortunately, he [[Astolpho|found time]], and as a result we have our featured article of the day. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 04:32, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Now if only he wasn't such a wuss D: -[[User:JoshuaWoulf|JoshuaWoulf]]

So are the recent edits indicative of some recent change in wikifurry policy about keeping online personas separate or is this just wikifurry editors being overzealous nerds all high on unearned authority again? --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 17:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
:And if [[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]]'s edits are any indication apparently the discussion pages are to be officially used as some kind of furry slambook now? That's genius, one encyclopedia dramatica wasn't enough. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

:: The only drama I see here is [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3ARootdown&diff=147414&oldid=45825 your name calling]. Have you considered behaving [[Wikipedia:Civility|Civilly]]? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 18:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

:::I don't behave "civilly" because every attempt I make to revert malicious edits on pages that are about me is undone by wikifur editors. You guys would get politeness and courtesy from me if you bothered to extend any to me in the first place; in '''all''' of my experiences with wikifur the rudeness has always been initiated by the administrators, who are then somehow baffled when I'm rude in return. On planet Dmuth, 'nerd' is not an okay thing to call somebody but 'wuss' is? Lead from the front, duder. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 19:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

:OK, chill peoples. I see no reason why we ''have'' to connect the two personae against the wishes of the player, so if there is due case, please spell it out for me. This isn't the first case where we have permitted a public and private identity. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
::Thank you for addressing this; this was my understanding of wikifur policy from the start. I would appreciate it a great deal if in the future the rest of your administrators could also be made apprised of this so that the next time somebody who has a personal grudge against me (like Arcturus, in this case) makes some malicious edit to the articles I can repair them ''without'' being hassled by a bunch of condescending administrators. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 19:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Rootdown

2007-06-26T19:06:10Z

Astolpho:

Talk:Rootdown

2007-06-26T19:05:29Z

Astolpho:

Talk:Rootdown

2007-06-26T18:35:36Z

Astolpho:

Rootdown

2007-06-26T18:30:47Z

Astolpho: Undo revision 147417 by Dmuth (Talk)

[[Image:Hayguys2.jpg|350px|right|Clearly, rootdown is one jolly dude.]] '''rootdown''' is a dude. He enjoys watercolor painting, computer pictures, and not leading his sentences or his screen name with capital letters. He has been known to be very fond of [[lions]], and is sometimes prone to fits of obnoxiousness when riled. rootdown is one of the creators of [[COTI]], an internet community for chatting on the internet.

Most of rootdown's current involvement in the furry community takes place under another screen name.

He can often be found on the internet, which is where he currently resides.
== External links ==
{{Contributor|rootdown}}
* [http://www.stupidhappy.com/ Stupidhappy]
* [http://www.livejournal.com/users/rtdn/ LiveJournal]
* [http://rootdown.deviantart.com/ deviantArt gallery]
* [http://rootdown.sheezyart.com/ Sheezy Art gallery]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Rootdown/ VCL gallery]
* [http://rootdown.1up.com/ 1up Profile]

[[Category:Artists]]
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:COTI-ites]]

Talk:Astolpho

2007-06-26T17:33:47Z

Astolpho:

{{featured}}

==Tone==
I'm a bit concerned with tone in a few places. For example, "Astolpho had up until that point made a point of being courteous and polite to everyone he interacted with". This is a judgement, and should be attributed IMHO. For example, "Astolpho asserts that he had...". It's hard to write about oneself, no? The only actual change I'm making to the article is in the phrase "unanimous approval", although I'll reconsider if the author can show it (the artist's new style) was put to a yes/no vote, with no dissenters. Even then it would have to note the scope, i.e. "...unanimous approval among such-and-such group". But good article overall! --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 23:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Yeah. From writing another Wiki article about who I am, I can say it is pretty damn hard to maintain a Neutral Point Of View. I now see that writing an article specifically about one's SELF is just rediculous. Obviously, a person's view of himself cannot reflect the general view of the public. (Where's the part that says Astolpho is an elitist, arrogant jerk?) What he might deem important or noteworthy might be trivial or insignificant with respect to the furry fandom. But I won't make a big deal about that--However, I do have one thing I really need to say. Astolpho, just because you know yourself better than anyone else knows you does NOT give you the right to make opinionated remarks in your little autobiography here. Among other little things in this article, I'm referring to you calling babyfurs "horrifying."
::First of all, if you're going to call me an elitist, arrogant jerk (which I will ''absolutely'' cop to, feel free to edit it in wherever you feel is appropriate and please remember to log in this time when you do it, otherwise I'll remove it), at least have the cojones to leave a name, otherwise your criticism is is completely without credibility. I'm going to assume that you're Skippyfox, though, because you sound like him, and you share his abysmally poor reading comprehension skills: ''nowhere'' in the article did I say or imply that babyfurs were horrifying. I said that the Astolpho alter-ego and the associated artwork was a horrifying secret - which, in relation to the circle of friends being made reference to, it is. Or was. Whatever. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 05:31, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Children, please. Leave the drama on [[Livejournal]]. ;) --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:20, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I'm not one for editing other people's talk pages, but typically, if someone doesn't sign something, then I just delete it without answering it on mine. Might be a good idea for you to do that too, bellcat.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:26, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Rootdown

2007-06-26T17:31:06Z

Astolpho:

Talk:Babyfur

2007-01-25T23:04:48Z

Astolpho:

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<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
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'''I've split this talk page as its displaying the length warning. If you can't find a conversation you were taking part in, please see page two.'''

== Artists ==

I removed Genesis Whitmore after having looked through her website and not seeing any significant representation of babyfur artwork, I don't think there are many babyfurs who have even heard of her or are familiar with her work. I'm sure she's done a commission or two for one or two individuals but if that was the metric for determining what constitutes a babyfur artist, I think the list of artists would be several times longer than what it is now.

I also corrected some of the goofy stuff Skippyfox wrote about me a while back. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 23:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

== History section ==

I have added a basic timeline in the History section. I appreciate the several veteran babyfurs who responded to me privately with detailed history, but while I found them very interesting I also saw some of them to be too focused on a specific topic, and many of them contradicted one another (when and by whom the term 'Babyfurs' was coined, for example). So I instead pulled out the relevant information that I believe os accurate and compiled this timeline with details about various web pages, IRC channels, IRL gatherings, and the mailing list for babyfurs. My sources were [[Snuggems]], [[Proxima Centauri]], [[BitterGrey]], [[Swift Fox]] and my very own brain.

The dates look kind of screwy because I was searching for a way to show them in an organized way. I believe they are much easier to read now, but if an admin wants them to be in a specific format, feel free to fix it.

I don't want the timeline to remain this small. If anybody can add more pertinant dates to it, PLEASE DO! Throw in what you can, even if you think it's inappropriate or too drama-ish or whatever. If it doesn't belong, it will be corrected later on.

== Question ==
Just wondering if someone could add me to the bf artist section... Or maybe I'm to much of an unknown to be there?
Also, I didn't think it would be smart to write myself in... :3 -[[Te'Targa|Te'Targa]]

:Don't know enough about the topic to add you, but others might. Please don't remove or rephrase words from people in talk pages unless they are personal attacks on other people. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 08:08, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::Was that just a general statement or did I do that??? -[[Te'Targa|Te'Targa]]

:::[http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Talk%3ABabyfur&diff=9529&oldid=9527] Perhaps you have censorware on the computer you were using that removed 'bad' words onload. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:08, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::::Ah... Sorry about that... Will refrain from doing any editing with that computer in the future... - [[Te'Targa|Te'Targa]]

== NPOV Alledged ==

Since NPOV is a case by case basis, and Crassus believes that article VII is not NPOV.. I'm going to mark the article NPOV. If an admin sees this and decides that the article should not be marked, please remove it. Thanks. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 12:23, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Again, I ask that the admin please look over the tone and neutrality of the babyfur vs pedophilia section. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:13, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

==Babyfur and Pedophilia==

Is this section really necessary? Stating that we are against something that is patently illegal should be a no brainer. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:19, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: So you think that anything patently illegal should be automatically considered wrong? Technically, erotic furry art is illegal in Canada. It's considered zoophilic in nature. Yet, I seem to know many furries in Canada that still collect the stuff, and even draw it. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 16:23, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:I think it is necessary to include, because I know a lot of Babyfurs who are tired of the bad rep they've gotten from close-minded people who can't get their understanding of terminologies correct. Most babyfurs that I know are very open-minded and understanding of others. They're just tired of all the crap they've received from hateful, ignorant people. It really reflects on the state of the fandom as a whole. I think most furs can agree that we're all tired of getting a bad rep in mainstream society. Subsections within the fandom are also tired of suffering the same intolerant treatment from other furs. My only beef is that I think the article needs to be clear up a couple legal definition issues.

:--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:23, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::And I disagree. I don't believe that we need to be throwing the "we're not pedophiles" argument down in front of people. Nor do I believe that pedosexuality has any place in the core definition of babyfur. I'm not saying we have to take the sexuality out of babyfur, but we should not be in the business of running around proactively telling everyone that we are not pedophiles. This is supposed to be an encyclopedic reference type article, not a sounding board for pro-pedosexuality or anti-pedosexuality. It really doesn't need to be in this article. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:26, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::I DO agree with you strongly on that last notion. We shouldn't be dealing with having to be pro or anti ANYthing. That's what my whole beef is with the section of the article. The tenor floats about in a defensive posture. It should be neutral. It should simply say what it is, and clear up confusion as to what it's not. It shouldn't look or feel slanted. Slants can be left to HHGttG, not the Intergalactic Encyclopedia, as the repository for all knowledge and wisedom of the universe, so to speak. :)

::: But also, think of this: We can't even say the word "pedophile" without some people automatically attaching it to (im)moral conduct. Therefore, is it not up to the individual reader to be left to their own understanding on an issue to ultimately be non-biased? Very tough to do. Though, I think it needs to be done. All I'm saying is, reword the thing. I'd do it myself, but I doubt I have teh skills. :)

:::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:35, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: Redcard, the article is not "proactively" mentioning anything about pedophilia. Rather it is '''reactively''' mentioning it, because there already exists the mistaken notion that babyfurs are somehow involved with pedophilia. I believe that it is important to dispel that myth, and that the best way to do it is by mentioning that it is in fact, untrue. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 18:58, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::: dmuth, Understood. The problem I had is that it seemed to couple babyfur with pedo by using the conjunction and on top of the contrasting vs below. This would give the cursory glancer the wrong impression and was not in like form to the remainder of the article. Changing it to vs clarifies the contrasting elements within it.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 19:03, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
: Yes, this part of the article is necessary was included because it's a precieved issue with the general fandom. Like it or not, babyfurs that do engage in sexual ageplay are often labeled as such. This section tries to draw the line between what is done in roleplay and what is done in real life (and what is illegal). -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 18:42, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

"...is patently illegal should..." Pedophilia is not illegal. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:27, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:: Please make your revisions here and not on the main article, especially when a consensus has not been reached. Further, for revisions that change the context of an entire section of an article, you need to properly mark the edit as a major edit. Do not try to sneak major context changing edits in as minor edits. Thanks [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:48, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:: Jello, I know you are wanting to remove the broad generalization. We , however, have reached a consensus at having a condemnation of pedophilia in this article. An acceptable compromise might be to remove the broad generalization of "all " and replace it with "most." But you are not going to remove the entire condemnation because you don't like its whole message.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:56, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: Why is that even sentence there? It can't be true. The furry fandom doesn't have a spokesman and it's made up of different people with different opinions who have different ideas of what should be "accepted" or "condoned". The sentence claims that the entire (overall) furry fandom dislikes pedophilia. Where are you getting this? This is the opinion of whoever wrote that section, ''not'' the furry fandom. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:58, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::: Why do you have to condemn pedophilia in the article? I'm not a furry, but I would have thought the fandom would be a bit more open-minded...
::: What statistics have you used to deduce that 'most' of the furry fandom dislikes pedophilia? Do you have a cite? {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:58, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::: So you are not a fur, and by nature, are not a babyfur. Look, we are babyfurs. We are the ones who have written this article. We will maintain the line as it is in many of our operating statements and codes of conduct. This article was written by consensus. It will NOT be changed by a single person, who is not even represented by the article, deciding that they don't like what it says. I'd rather all references to pedophilia be out entirely, but the consensus did not work that way. Work within the system, please. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:03, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::: It doesn't matter if I'm not furry, and it doesn't matter if I'm not babyfur. These are immaterial. I've seen enough of the world to know that not everyone thinks the same about things, and I highly doubt furries are any different. So the concensus said to write it like that? That's like people writing history by a vote, to reflect whatever makes them look good; even if this isn't Wikipedia, WikiFur is intended record factual information. Concensus shouldn't determine fact. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:11, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::: WHOA

:::: whoa whoa whoa whoa.

:::: ''Why do you have to condemn pedophilia in the article? I'm not a furry, but I would have thought the fandom would be a bit more open-minded...''

:::: If you're stepping in to provide a defense of the sexual exploitation of children in the name of inclusivity and tolerance, you've ''already'' lost the argument, no rebuttal necessary. End of story. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:15, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::: Gargh, pedophilia isn't the sexual exploition of children. I'm not defending anything, anyway, I'm saying we shouldn't be untruthfully stating all furs hate pedos. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:17, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::: I'm sure not *all* do, but I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of furs would say that engaging in a sexual act with a real child is not the right thing to do. This article will not be used to say that babyfurs are pedo nor will it be used to make it sound like that furs in general accept pedo. Why is it in the article...because many furs equate babyfurs with pedo. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 18:53, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::: I think that's where people are getting foncused. Pedophilia does not mean someone is doing something with a child in real life. It can be roleplayed with other adults. I know some people who are zoophile, but they've never done anything with an animal. Being attracted to something doesn't mean you're going to be involved in a criminal act. That's why I say, you're blurring the line between legalities and just being /attracted/ to something. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 15:27, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Note to Jellochuu: It seems your definition of pedophilia and pedophile is based on the clinical definition of the terms. However, the connotation of the term as used in society at large is something very, very different from its literal meaning. If your intention is accuracy, and I hope it is, then you will know that what you are writing are coming across with a very different interpretation than what the words you are using literally mean. [[User:Almafeta|Almafeta]] 19:38, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Using the word 'pedophile' to describe a child molester is like using the word 'furry' to describe an animal rapist. If you mean child molester, ''then say child molester''. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:11, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::Jello, I'm all for "calling things what they are", and in the context it is used in the article, the word "pedophile" is calling it what it is. --[[User:Zhaleskra|Zhaleskra]]
:::The article has been fixed now. Prior to that, "pedophile" was used to mean someone who molests children. This is prejudicial, racist, and inaccurate. Babyfurs who don't know the difference between a pedophile and child molester should be ashamed. [[User:Jello|Jello]] 23:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Do you honestly expect us to respect the opinion of someone who resorts to setting up the straw man of calling "racist" on an issue that has nothing to do with race? Telling other people how they should feel is not an effective way to debate. Yet all I see you doing is screaming "I'm right, you're wrong, and you're also stupid for not thinking like me". [[User:Zhaleskra|Zhaleskra]] 14:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

== Some true thoughts and feelings ==

Grrf.. this is getting ridiculous. The entire deal is showing quite clearly the very paranoia and fear within babyfur community on being labelled pedophiles; so much so that they're condemning another sexual preference to save their own name. It's what the gays did during the pride movement in the 70's and 80's, and it's what the burned furs did in the last few years amongst other furries more kinky than them. People want to wash their hands of things when someone accuses someone of something that puts them in a compromising position. They display outward hatred toward the ideal behind the accusation, effectively labeling and outcasting someone else to save their neck.

Roman dude: "You know Jesus! I saw you with him!", Peter: "I don't know him!"

This is what's happening in this article. That's what I take offense to. By condemning pedosexuality in this article, you are being biased, you're being self-centric, and successfully fulfilling the very stereotype about babyfur that they're over-reactive and immature when it comes to sexual issues.

You're being prejudice and discriminatory. Wanna know how it feels? Take this for example: "For being into something like putting diapers on in public and shitting in them in private hotel rooms while sucking on pacifiers and being coo'ed to like you're 2 years old, you certainly seem to have closed minds."

Oh, I'm sorry.. You think that's not true? You think that's biased? Well, now you know how '''I''' feel. I'm not ill. I don't have a sickness. I'm not raping or molesting children. I refuse to fit into this little cube of an idea that some know-it-all shrink bastard decided upon a 125 years ago.

The following portion of the article is biased, it's hypocritical, and it's wrong:

"However, as with the general population, a very small subset of babyfurs may also be pedophiles. Such interests and activities are neither accepted by nor condoned by most babyfurs. While there have been legal incidents in the past with some furries involved with pedophilia, they have not been specifically identified as babyfurs."

This paragraph should be removed. It's unfounded, it's biasd, it's reactionary, and it implies things by context. It's outcasting people.

Did you ever stop to think that those babyfurs who just might happen to have the feelings and attractions you're condemning might feel a bit bad? People you know and love might feel quite rejected by your words. Is that your goal? To clear out all the evil doers?

:Holy CRAP. Are you for real? You're worried about how PEDOPHILES FEEL? JESUS MARY MOTHER OF CHRIST what kind of POS are you?
::I agree, mate. Compassion, on my planet? What the fuck? [[User:24.224.153.40|24.224.153.40]] 22:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

::Please read the poster's words. The concern is that it implies that babyfurs are pedophiles by association, and that such association would make babyfurs ''in general'' feel bad. It is not saying that people should feel sorry for pedophiles. Personally, I ''do'' feel sorry for them, not for their acts (which most have at least some measure of control over, if only by staying away from children), but for the fact that they posess the desire (which is not really something that can be helped - it's like saying people can avoid being attracted to members of the opposite sex [or the same sex, where applicable]). --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 04:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

IMO, WikiFur ''SHOULD'' be NPOV. It's the responsible thing to do for this community.

=== Solution ===

I'm working on a revision that I hope I'll be able to finish soon that will hopefully satisfy the majority of the people without trampling on others needlessly. The moment I can finish it, I'll post it here.

I just wish to God you guys could understand how whoever wrote this article is sounding.

--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 16:07, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:I wish to God you'd understand that we ALL wrote this article, Crassus. Nobody owns the article. It's all of ours. I wish you'd understand that we KNOW exactly how it sounds because we wrote it to sound that way. Maybe you need to write your own article on pedosexuality or something. But please, leave a well written and solid consensus article alone, please? [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 16:54, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)

::See, but the problem is, this article does NOT just belong to the BF crowd. It belongs to ALL furries. It's not a sales pitch for your fetish, it's an objective assessment from ALL angles, not just yours. And that includes the opinions of the rest of the fandom too.

:::That's fair enough. Please don't try to drown out other people by shouting over them in bold text, though. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 04:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

==Sex and Babyfurs==
Okay, we've had a lot of furor over this right now. Let me sum how I see that section of the article right now:
*People mistake babyfur activities as being pedophilia. This is not the same thing. I feel the new title edit makes that clear.
*Some babyfurs are interested in sex in babyfur persona, some are not. Of those, some age-play with adults, some age-play with other babyfurs.
*We can't totally say that no babyfur ever is a pedophile, because we just don't know. No one identified as a BF has ever been involved in legal action regarding sexual conduct with a minor.

I think at this point, we may need a seperate article on Age-play and how it relates to the fandom.

[[User:MelSkunk|MelSkunk]] 19:16, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:I don't. I think we should simply link to Wikipedia's already very detailed entry on the matter. Ageplay is not a "furry" topic. It has links in that it is a sexual kink, but it in no way deals with "furryness".

:--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:26, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, but once again I'm going to have to disagree on something that was recently added:

"Many babfurs do not include a sexual element to their interests."

First off, there's a typo for "babyfurs". Secondly, just because there is not a sex act being performed in the scene does not mean they aren't receiving sexual gratification from the scene. Many a time, when someone pulls off one of those diapers, you're bound to see evidence that the person's being stimulated mentally. The above statement is phrased in a way that lends to the notion that there is no sexual element involved at all, which is definately not the case. The same goes for pedophilia in many cases. Merely seeing kids playing or acting "boyish/girlish" is enough to be stimulating. (Again, not passing judgement in either AB or BL/GL issues. Simply stating the facts.)

--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:42, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: I know quite a few that do not include sexual play in with their babyfur play. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 19:50, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::I just said that. Just because there's no actual sexual '''play''' does '''not''' mean there isn't a '''sexual element''' or gratification from the '''non-sexual''' act.

::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: For some, I'm sure it's just like you are trying to explain, while there is no direct stimuli, there's is mental stimuli. However, realise that being a babyfur and wearing a diaper or doing anything else connected with babyfurs in real lif is not the same thing. There are babyfurs out there that they like roleplaying young characters but would not do anything outside of that roleplay. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 19:58, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::That doesn't mean there isn't a sexual element, though. Sexuality revolves around a much more expansive circle than direct stimulation. Sometimes the very feeling of comfort derived from non-sexual activity can result in stimulation, or at least be conducive toward feeling more sexually inclined and "in-tune" so to speak. I'll give you an example. Suppose someone can't "get it up" unless they're wearing a Marylin Monroe wig. The moment they put that wig on, even if it has nothing to do with sex directly, provides an element which enables them to feel sexually enabled. Diapers and such are a paraphernalia to that degree. Granted, that doesn't include everyone. Nothing is 100%, but I bet you it's the majority of them.

::::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::Passing observation on this discussion - it would seem to be getting a little bit into the abstraction of just what constitutes sexuality, sexual stimulation, feedback, mental states, etc. Which isn't a bad topic or anything. In point of fact, I think more people need education on it, and there are a lot of primitive / simplistic viewpoints floating around, IMHO. One reason why things like furry sexuality in general may be misunderstood or shocking to outsiders at first glance. However, I do wonder how well the abstractions help the issue of trying to describe the issues surrounding the babyfur topic. It's clearly a topic for discussion about it because there have been so many misunderstandings. There is just the practical issue remaining of how to integrate all of this into an encyclopedic entry.

:::::--{{UT|ToyDragon}}

::::: For some...yes. But not for all. What babyfur means to you is not necessiarily what babyfur means to others. This article was written in the hopes to cover as many bases as possible. There are babyfurs out there that have no intrest in the sexual ageplay. They just like to play innocent characters. There is '''no''' connection of a diaper and a fetish object to them. To deny that these babyfurs exist is a disservice to them and a misrepresentation of the community. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 20:12, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::The problem that I see in trying to clear off the name of Babyfurs for a clear definition is the fact "Babyfur" is associated tightly with so many other sexual kinks: AD/BL, infantilism, watersports, scat, ageplay, overalls and clothing, baby oil, etc..... I don't see any other way to view it as just an adaptation of the kink, whether it be inherently sexual or not, it's still a kink, with a tail stuck on it. Furryness aside, adult babies for the most part is in fact a sexual element added to their life. Wikipedia's entry on [[Wikipedia:Infantilism]] even mentions this:

::::::"Some forms of infantilism are purely regressive, without any sexual content. After an individual has reached full maturity, including a fully independent living situation, as well as stabilized in his or her long term sexual role in society, most infantilists report having incorporated certain aspects of sexuality into their infantilism. However, some few adult infantilists report never having done so. Even though some infantilists may never incorporate any aspects of sexuality into their practice, most adult infantilists would agree that their practice of infantilism has minimally had a profound effect on their sexuality, if not having been a direct part of it."

::::::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 23:05, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::: And this is not Wikipedia, but rather a wikicities site on wikipedia. Why don't you detail fixes instead of just pointing out what's wrong , so that we may discuss fixes instead of your amporphous ideals, and then we can vote on those suggestions? If you're just going to point out what's wrong, you need to leave. You're not contributing to WikiSociety. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:12, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::::Actually.. we aren't connected to Wikipedia in anyway. Wikicities is privately owned and financed, but respects similar values to Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation. ;) -[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 01:47, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::::::: Ah.. you are correct. I was thinking that Wales founded Wikipedia under Wikia, but he chose not to. Regardless, according to the wikicity creation policy , we do operate with a tit-for-tat relationship with Wikipedia. Also, it is expected upon reading the wikicities information that Wikisociety still take place in the same manner as it would on a wikipediaproject vs a wikia project. (Which was created thusly to be a commercial entity) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 02:09, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::: I believe you mean "amorphous". Really now. Don't hold back your real feelings about me. I've contributed to a number of other articles which I openly know more about than this, and for that very reason, I don't even assume to know everything about a subject that I myself have never participated in, but such arrogance to assume that a higher definition can be obtained through individual personal opinion rather than the collective thoughts of the many, plus outside sources like Wikipedia and thefreedictionary.com... that just boggles me blind. I don't dare to add or subtract from this entry simply because I know that I don't know everything about it. But, I do know a little about ageplay matters, and sexuality in general is rather a hobby of mine to study. I know that in the US, we've obtained such a high degree of puritanical BS to make us want to hide and cover up our true natures, which is the direct force behind so much of our conflicting and ambiguous ideals... to me, this entire matter is simply a matter of covering things up and making us "feel" better just because something isn't socially accepted. It's the entire problem we as furs as a whole have. We can't face reality, and that, Red, is more of a hinderance than any "non"-contribution that I could dish out. Sorry for the difference of opinion. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 00:02, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::::Will you get to the POINT , Crassus? Please? What do you want? We are not going to turn this into a boylove article, so forget about that. Further, the purpose of this article is not to explore the sexuality of babyfur, but to explore babyfur on the whole. So.. will you please tell us what you want or drop it? Yes, you're very clearly into pedophilia, and yes, you do not like the "puritanical" viewpoints, and yes, you think that , from reading things.. everyone should be allowed to have sex, both pedo and non. Forget what I think of your viewpoints, and just get to the point about what you want to see in this article. The next thing out of your mouth had best not be a diatribe about how evil society is for not letting you have sex with children, and better be something about THIS article. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 00:21, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::::Fine. Let me spell it out. Again. (I already did so up there somewhere.) Section VII of the article is biased and it should NOT be biased. Change it.

::::::::"Yes, you're very clearly into pedophilia, and yes, you do not like the "puritanical" viewpoints"

:::::::: You say that like it's a bad thing to be open minded and not a bigot. And no, I'm not "into pedophilia". That's stupid. Pedophilia is a modern clinical term coined in the 1800's by some victorian know-it-all shrink dude for a biased point of view during the height of the anti-child-labor movement as part of the backlash to the industrial revolution. During the 20th century it got taken a step further and it got turned not only from a term for a paraphilia, but also a blurred connotation for child rape and molestation, which is NOT part of the equation. Think of it this way: It would be like forcing someone into a diaper who doesn't want to have one. It's not consentual. Rape is rape, no matter the age. So, no. I am '''not''' into pedophilia. Sorry. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 05:57, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::::::Section VII is staying the way it is until someone proposes a change and that changes gets voted on. Simply saying change it is not helpful since it does not offer us something to change it to. So, again, please make a suggestion or leave. You're not even a babyfur, Crassus, why the hell is this bothering you so much? The babyfurs by and large seem okay with it. (Oh, and by the way, we're allowed to be biased here. NPOV is not strictly enforced here. You might want to read the wikifur policy. Please also note that it says to consult an admin, and so far two admins have looked this page over and think its just fine..)[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 12:04, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::::::'''HOW''' is section VII bias? All I seem to be getting from you and this conversation is you [Crassus] wanting to remove the section that says not all babyfurs get sexual stimulation from it. If that's all you want, I've already told you, many times, that it's not true. I know a few that do not cross that line. I also know a few babyfurs that do not even get involved in real life with it, all they do is roleplay young characters on a muck or such. I can see your confusion as the first line of the article states that a babyfur is an ab/dl furry. They do make up a chunk of the general babyfur population, but not all of them. Again, that's not always true and I corrected that.

::::::::::Also, to the both of you, please stop the personal attacks. This is '''NOT''' the place for them. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 13:57, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

==Revisions==

How do we offer proposed revisions for the entry? --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:36, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Well, one possibility is simply write out the text that you have in mind and put it right here. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:37, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I had a good talk with a friend of mine who is a babyfur, and has given me some insight into things. I'm going to see what people think.

A babyfur = A fur who labels themself as someone who fits into the babyfur ideals. Those ideals mean any or all of the following:

*Might or might not be into infantilism, AB/DL, or any range of various sexual interests at any varying degree.
*Ageplaying an extremely young age: birth through pre-schooler age.
*Might find their play sexual.
*Might find the age they roleplay sexual.
*Might find diapers and other paraphernilia sexual. They may wear diapers for whatever reason, whether it be for fun, to feel emotionally comforting, to be enabled sexually, or for medical conditions.
*Might not find any of the play sexual, but enjoys it on a level.
*Might talk funny ICly.
*Might talk funny OOCly.
*Might be a pedosexual, might not be.
*Might RP, might not. Might RP RL, some only online.

More to come as I think of it. At this point, I'm really confused as to how we can define something that no one really agrees upon. I guess just to offer different definitions. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 00:26, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: Everything you've said in this is already in the article somewhere...or am I missing something? -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 21:53, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: Isn't this a tad broad? "any range of various sexual interests at any varying degree." Then "but enjoys it on a level." What does that mean? It is NOT necesarily a sexual enjoyment, unless you think everything is sexual, then food is sexual too, and movies, and biking... I think that statement is redundant. If they didn't enjoy it (they suffered it?) they wouldn't do it, would they? --[[user:Tundu|Tundu]] 00:53, Aug 31 2005 (UTC)

:: Sorry, lemme clarify. "Any range of various sexual interests in some way related to the type of stuff related to babyfur"... .. heh, or even sometimes /not/ related to babyfur. Sexual interests overlap sometimes, which is the whole problem with trying to group people together with a label. Personally I think the idea of labeling intangible ideals is a bit old fashioned and like theoretical physics, has no clear-cut end and simply will never be boiled down to anything.

:: My writing of those "revisions" was only to point this very fact out. I was being rather incredulous with it. I'm trying to sort out definitions as I go along. I'm learning at the same time everyone else is. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 16:18, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Very personal opinion ==

To me, one of the most retarded things about being human is that humans take a LONG time until they can do anything useful. They cry a lot, getting on everyone's nerves. They take a long time to learn to walk. And I'm not even getting into the messy aspects here .... In my opinion, most species (especially those popular among furry fans) have a much more graceful childhood, and I feel it's best to leave it so without adding negative aspects of the early years of every human. Give me baby kittens any day, but I'm not sure if I'm ever up to having children of my own .... (End personal ramble, I know that others have a different taste.)
- [[User:Unci|Unci]] 10:15, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)

:Just a random thought inspired from that. I'd be willing to bet that more than a handful of babyfur fans are, even if just subconsciously, thinking about childhood of the animal species which is considered more graceful than human infancy. While they may symbolize it with humanoid decorations like diapers, a number of the babyfurs I know personally tend to envision juvinile character which are really not very "human" at all. - [[User:ToyDragon|ToyDragon]]

== Reverting 67.176.94.60's edit ==

I removed the following text that was entered by 67.176.94.60:
:* Distaste from being in line at a convention near a babyfur who has just filled his diapers and the entire hall with an unholy stench ('mainstream' babyfurs make a show of not approving of such individuals, yet they constantly make unwelcome appearances at conventions and in emo-laden LJ posts).

The author may have a point, but I felt that the text was a little inflamatory. Anyone want to take a shot at toning it down? --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 04:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

:I've made [http://furry.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Babyfur&diff=42199&oldid=42193 a few edits]. It obviously is an unfortunate situation to be in, and one which the individuals concerned should not have placed the group surrounding them in.

:I would note that there's probably only so much mainstream babyfurs feel they can do about their bretheren, and it probably doesn't help if they feel that their options are siding with a group that denounces them as pedophiles or a group that soils their pants occasionally. To take a similar example, are furries more likely to want to go along with those who claim furries are all [[skunkfucker]]s, or of other members of the fandom who are just fine with them (despite seeming to have a few too many [[plush toy]]s for their age)? And if they decided it was worth the derision of those that they craved acceptance from, what exactly could they do? Stop being furry out of protest? Too many people have been forced to make that choice, IMO.

:I think such things can be solved more simply with public rules about what is acceptable in a given area. If there is enough consensus about something, then it should be a clear rule about it that people are willing to enforce. This lets others say, "well, this is how it is - if you soil yourself in public, you'll be banned, and you'll have to sit in the hotel room without us, so don't" without feeling that they've let a fellow babyfur down. Punish the objectionable action directly, and it is likely to go away. --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 05:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

::I haven't registered with WikiFur yet as I'm still deciding on an appropriate username. Having an example of exactly a particular behavior that leads to distrust from "mainstream" furries is good, and I feel that describing the offending behavior explicitly is bad. --Zhaleskra (for now)

:::I registered, and I apologize for the use of quotes around mainstream in the above comment. [[User:Zhaleskra|Zhaleskra]] 15:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

== "Section VII" ? ==

(from the "Facts and Myths" section) "... See section VII about the difference between babyfurs and pedophiles ..."

Section VII seems to be a timeline, and I didn't see anything there explaining the difference. An error? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:33, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

:Probably - referring to sections with numbers never really works out so well on a wiki. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Babyfur

2007-01-25T23:00:53Z

Astolpho: /* Artists */

A '''babyfur''' is a member of the [[furry fandom]] who enjoys roleplaying younger characters. They may also be an Adult Baby and/or [[Wikipedia:Diaper Lover|Diaper Lover]] (collectively known as AB/DLs), or is otherwise involved in [[Wikipedia:Infantilism|Infantilism]]. There are many different types of furs in the babyfur community, each focusing on different aspects and roles. Like furry in general, babyfur culture involves a good amount of [[role-playing]] (either light or heavy), both online and in the real world.

The community has been growing more and more popular since the mid- to late 90's. While the community itself is still part of the furry fandom as a whole, it is large enough to present sufficient leaders, politics and drama to give the community a nearly independent feel to it.

Role playing babyfurs will most often take on the role of a furry character in his/her infancy or childhood. Common roleplaying themes include "cute" [[clothing]] (onesies, footy pajamas, overalls, diapers) and a child's environment such as a nursery or day care center, complete with cribs, high chairs and babyish decor. A few babyfurs lucky enough to afford the privacy and devotion will set up adult nurseries to role play as children in real life. A sexual subset of this type of roleplaying is known as [[ageplay]].

[[Image:Rieva-little.JPG|thumb|350px|right|Babyfurs in a Nutshell.<br\>Art by [[LoupGarou]] [http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/LoupGarou], character by [[Rieva]]]]

==Terminology==

==Babyfur roles==

There are a few sub-groups within the babyfur community which are often described with the following terminology:

*'''babyfur''' : Used to describe the group as a whole, however, specifically it referrers to someone that roleplays as younger, up to the human equivalent of toddler age, characters. Baby paraphernalia is most likely to be involved for this group and role played speech is often either in gibberish or very basic speech.
*'''lilfur (littlefur)''' : This is a person that roleplays as a child character. Characters identified as lilfurs tend to between their toddler and teen ages. Diaper and other baby paraphernalia may or may not be involved. Role played speech is usually more refined at this point, but still somewhat juvenile.
*'''diaperfur''' : This is a person that roleplays as an adult character that still either requires or choose to wear diapers. Role played speech and actions are consistent with an adult. The person may also roleplay an adult character that is mentally regressed back to a younger state, but still has an adult physical form.
*'''sissyfur''' : This is a person that roleplays a male character, either adult or child, that is forced to dress and act as a young female character.
*'''caretaker''' : As the name suggests these are the people that roleplay caretaker characters, a 'mommy' or 'daddy' figure for other babyfurs.

Many people don't identify with one single group, but can change roles depending on the situation and who they are interacting with. It's also not uncommon for complex lineages (for example siblings, parents, etc) to be set up among other babyfurs so that roles can be defined.

==Definition of AB/DLs==

These are general non furry terms but are useful to understand in this context.

'''Adult Baby''' (AB) : A person that enjoys regressing back to being a baby. Beyond regressing using physical or environmental changes (such as diapers, clothing, and settings), they also mentally regress, taking the mentality of a baby. These are the equivalent to 'babyfurs' or 'lilfurs' when crossed with [[furry]]. Teenagers who are Adult Babies will sometimes refer to themselves as Teen Babies (TBs).

'''Diaper Lover''' (DL) : A person that enjoys regressing back to being a baby, but limits the regressing to an environmental change (such as wearing diapers or using baby paraphernalia). These people, unlike AB's, will usually not regress physically (adopting a baby form) or mentally. These tend to be the equivalent of 'diaperfurs' in the babyfur community. For some DLs, but not all of them, there is a fetish connection to the diapers and baby play. They will sometimes take the submissive role to a caretaker in sexual play, and the caretaker will take a dominant role.

'''Infantilist''' : Essentially, [[Wikipedia:infantilism|infantilism]] regards any person who enjoys regressing to the mental age of an infant or toddler, and may or may not involve diapers and other baby paraphernalia.

==Baby things (and why)==

From the Adult Baby (AB) angle of AB/DL, regressing individuals prefer to behave and be treated as much like a baby or toddler as possible. To do so successfully achieves in many babyfurs a comforting, secure or blissful feeling. Various paraphrenalia help to satisfy these preferences:

===Clothing===

Many babyfurs enjoy wearing all sorts of clothing. Some say the cuter it looks, the better it is. Such articles of clothing include the following:
*Overalls
*Shortalls
*Booties
*Dresses
*Onesies
*Pajamas
*Pants
*Footed sleepers
*Mittens
*Bows

Many male babyfurs find they enjoy being dressed as little girls as well, and are sometimes called ''sissyfurs''.
The classic baby bonnet (seen frequently in certain Looney Toons episodes) is not very common among babyfurs, which might be attributed to the fact that modern society doesn't find real babies wearing them either.

===Plushies and toys===
Just like clothing, interacting with plushies and toys is very contributive to the cub experience. Toys range in age from baby toys to toy cars and action figures. As long as cubs get to interact with one another though, toys are not always the focus in a roleplay.

===Objects===
A toddler's life is not complete without many of the following items. Many babyfurs use these objects in online roleplay and would love to be able to use them in the real world:

*Cribs
*Walkers
*Strollers
*High chairs
*Car seats
*Booster seats
*Pacifiers
*Baby bottles
*Sippy cups
*Talcum powder
*Bubble baths

In addition to physical objects, some babyfurs also find a keen interest in actions like [[wikipedia:blowing a raspberry|blowing a raspberry]], being held, or watching old television shows that are no longer available for on TV. Many old children's shows such as 80's and early 90's cartoons on Nickelodeon were the same shows some babyfurs watched when they were little, and reminiscing about them leaves a nostalgic warmth.

===Diaper usage (and why)===

Diapers are an item frequently used while "cubbing out". Like other aspects of babyfur, this can be done in the virtual world, the real world, or both. There are many babyfurs, however, that while they will wear diapers in online roles, do not in real life. Many babyfurs will wear diapers in real life for a feeling of security and comfort, but will not use them for their intended purpose. At the other end of the spectrum, there are some babyfurs that, either by choice or by necessity, wear and use diapers all the time.

Why babyfurs wear, and possibly use, diapers in the real world is varied. For some, they are forced to wear them because of a medical condition and have no choice in the manner. These people have often blended their real life situation with their furry persona. For others, it is a way they can regress into their [[fursona|furry persona]]'s age. Some others see the diapers as a connection to their furry persona, paralleling a [[tail]] or [[fursuit]] in the general furry community.

The wearing (and especially the use) of diapers in the real world are at the heart of many issues that some members of the furry community in general have with the babyfurs. For example, it is not generally considered appropriate for a diaper user to soil themselves at [[convention]] in the presence of other [[furry fan]]s - or to put themselves in a situation where this is likely to happen - yet individuals have been known to do this, to the detriment of the group's reputation.

==Babyfur behavior==

When cubbing out in both the real world and in online roleplaying, the level of connection to the role will vary between each player. Some babyfurs will become so involved and yearn for such an authentic childish mentality that they will use speech impediments and [[Wikipedia:baby talk|baby talk]] to communicate. Very few babyfurs make a habit out of using babytalk in the real world, similar to a [[Wikipedia:gay lisp|gay lisp]]. Depending on the situation, a babyfur could even develop a habit of whining or crying to get what he/she wants from a caregiver or another roleplayer.

In light online [[role-playing]], babyfurs may toddle, crawl and wag their tails playfully while the sounds of crinkling diapers abound. Pouncing, giggling, cuddling, [[snug]]gling and tummy rubbing ensue with the maximum possible level of cuteness.

Child-like behaviour, baby animal sounds and an emphasis on [[cuteness]] are widespread among [[furry fans]] when among themselves, even those who don't call themselves babyfurs and who don't participate in other babyfur activities described here, such as diapers or baby clothing.

While most babyfurs are closely attached to the development of young [[human]]s, a different approach can be found in online [[role-play]], where newborn [[zoomorphic]] and [[anthropomorphic]] [[characters]] often grow up at a similar pace as wild animals, doing without accessories such as diapers and learning to walk in a short time. This has the practical advantage of sooner getting into an age that allows interesting role-play even for non-babyfurs when playing a character since birth. As in nature, opinions on when a character can be considered adult vary greatly.

===Cubbing Out===
"Cubbing Out" is a general term used by the community to describe roleplaying as a babyfur character. This can either be roleplay in the virtual world or the real world. Usually it will involve one or more regressed characters or people interacting with each other or with a caregiver.

"Padding" and "Getting Padded" may also refer to cubbing, in particular regarding to being diapered.

===The caregiver's role===
Caregivers (or caretakers) are the 'mommy' and 'daddy' figures in the roleplay. For the most part, they interact with other babyfurs as a mother or father would with their child. This can include playing with, cleaning or disciplining the younger character. For those involved from a sexual standpoint, the caregiver may adopt the dominant role, while the regressed character adopts the submissive role.

===Babyfurs at furry conventions===

Just like furries in general, babyfurs go to [[convention]]s to spend time with friends and express their [[furriness]]. For many, that includes their babyfur aspects too. One may see many babyfurs dressed in juvenile clothing and with various paraphernalia because that is part of how they choose to express themselves. To some babyfurs, dressing in such a way is no different than other furries wearing ears, tails or fursuits.

At many [[convention]]s, hotel rooms are set up as gathering places for babyfurs to socialize privately. Two of the most notable are the [[C'ubhouse]] and [[Nursery]] run by [[LilPup]] and [[Snuggems]], respectively.

==Facts and myths==
*Myth: Babyfurs publicly dress as a baby.
**Sometimes true. Some babyfurs dress as a baby to express their interest in being a babyfur unashamed, and a few are avid seekers of humiliation or embarrassment. However, most babyfurs do not engage in the public dress of infantile paraphernalia.

*Myth: Babyfurs are sexually attracted to children just as some furry fans are sexually attracted to furries.
**False. Being a babyfur is very different from being a pedophile. While a small number of babyfurs may be pedophiles, this is largely not the case. See section VII about the difference between babyfurs and pedophiles.

==History of the babyfur community==

*'''1995''' - [[Proxima Centauri]] opens [[The Nursery]] on [[FurryMUCK]].
*'''1995-01-13''' - Proxima Centauri runs the first official "AB/DL Furry" convention gathering at [[ConFurence 6]], though unsuccessful.
*'''1995-08-04''' - [[BitterGrey]] opens [http://understanding.infantilism.org Understanding Infantilism], then known as "BitterGrey's Den," a website for ABDLs and Furries.
*'''1996-09-09''' - Proxima Centauri officially opens [http://www.nurserytails.ca Nursery Tails].
*'''1997''' - [[Snuggems]] opens the FurryMUCK DayKare and Bottoms-Up Diaper Company.
*'''1998-01-15''' - Snuggems runs ''The Nursery'', the first successful convention gathering for babyfurs, at [[ConFurence 9]]. The Nursery has been held at 18 furry conventions.
*'''1998-07''' - [[Chipper]] and [[OshKoshFox]] create [[babyfurs (IRC)|#babyfurs]] on [[YiffNet]].
*'''2000-05-05''' - [[Kasi Frost]] and OshKoshFox create the Babyfurs mailing list on One Groups.
*'''2000-05-18''' - [[Ray_Ferret]] creates #littlepaws on YiffNet after heated disagreements on #babyfurs.
*'''2000''' - #nowhere_grotto is created on YiffNet as an alternative to #babyfurs and #littlepaws. The new channel grows to rival the size of #babyfurs, but falls before #babyfur is created in 2004.
*'''2001-07''' - [[LilPup]] runs the first [[C'ubHouse]] at [[Anthrocon]].
*'''2004-07''' - [[Ludwig]] creates #babyfur as an alternative to #babyfurs, now on [[FurNet (IRC)|FurNet]], to allow users to chat with fewer rules and regulations.
*'''2004-09-13''' - The Babyfurs mailing list, having moved to Yahoo! Groups, is deleted by Yahoo! and is revived as "Babyfurs_part2."
*'''2004-12-11''' - Yahoo! again deletes the mailing list, and the group moves to [http://clubs.wanadoo.co.uk/group/group.cfm?GID=2982050 Babyfurs on Smartgroups].
*'''2006-11-30''' - SmartGroups ceases service. Babyfurs mailing list ceases to exist after over six years.

==Community leaders and important babyfurs==

The following babyfurs are among the most known and respected in the furry fandom, recognized here for their contributions and devotion to the babyfur community:

*[[Swift Fox (person)|Swift Fox]] has been a member of the babyfur community since its inception in the mid to late 90's. He writes babyfur fiction, has been owner and moderator of several iterations of the Babyfurs mailing list, and hosts several furry and AB/DL events in the Pittsburgh area. ([http://www.swiftsden.net Swift's Den])
*[[Orca (person)|Orca]] co-moderates the Babyfurs mailing list with SwiftFox. He maintains the Babyfurs mailing list and an external file archive. He routinely reports links to interesting or humorous online articles relating to AB/DLs. Orca is also the famed inventor of the "Orca Stack."
*[[BabyTiger (person)|BabyTiger]] has been a member of the babyfur community since 1998, A Canadian Babyfur who has a strong presence at the Canadian conventions such at [[C-ACE]] and [[Anthrofest]], organizing and hosting BabyFur gatherings. He also works and helps out with newer babyfurs in the community, making them feel welcomed and lending a paw to any who need the help.
*[[LilPup]] and [[Lil_Kitt]] run and manage the [http://babyfur.com/cubhouse/ Babyfur C'ubhouse] at furry conventions for babyfurs to get together and have fun. LilPup also runs the [http://babyfur.com/ Online Babyfur Community], a central website that features the [http://babyfur.com/bfpl/ Babyfur Proximity Locator] (BFPL) for babyfurs to locate one another around the world. Like Swift and Orca, LilPup works to improve the relationship between babyfurs and non-babyfurs at conventions and to help babyfurs maintain a positive reputation in the furry fandom.
*[[Snuggems]] is most known for running the Nursery at Anthrocon, a room devoted to giving to those kids and cubs at heart who need to be cared for. Although it started up first and despite that the two meeting spots have different ratings and features, Snuggems' Nursery has been often been said to view the C'ubhouse as competition.
*[[Proxima Centauri]]'s name is perhaps the first name known to newcomers to the babyfur community as they search to satisfy their newly found interests. Proxima runs [http://www.nurserytails.ca Nursery Tails], one of the longest running AB Furry pages, dating back to 1997 (before the term "babyfur" had existed) and featuring thousands of babyfur art, fiction and multimedia files. Though it is in dire need of a new layout, the webpage still runs strong today.
*[[Karis]] owns and maintains [[Karis' Playground]] [http://karisplayground.com/], featuring a large collection of babyfur and AB/DL images by artists of all rank. Karis' Playground also offers a store where visitors can purchase prints of babyfur art by various professional artists, including his wife Marci McAdam. Karis was the first person to make babyfur/diaper art available at furry conventions, thus pioneering the community known today as "Babyfurs."

== Babyfur art and literature ==
A few of the authors and artists in the babyfur community are:

=== Artists ===
*[[Marci McAdam]] is the most popular artist in the babyfur community. Although she is not a babyfur herself, her professional abilities and open-mindedness make her one of the best artist around. It is often said that a babyfur isn't officially a babyfur until he has purchased a badge or commission from Marci McAdam. Her babyfur art can be found for sale at her husband's website, Karis' Playground, and her other art is located at [http://furries.frithcat.com/ Marci McAdam's Furries]. Due to her time constraints in doing professional art, Marci is unable to take fandom-related commissions anymore.

*[[BushyCat]] appears at several furry conventions and is well known for her humorous-yet-innocent take on babyfurs as well as other alternative genres of furry art. Some of her creations have more human-like qualities than other artists tend to portray in their characters.

*[[JadeFox]] is one of the more active babyfur artists in the community, offering special contests and events for fans to participate in. The majority of his work is based on his own character or other babyfurs' characters. His drawings are especially creative and imaginative, bringing out only the most treasured aspects of childhood, as well as very innovative clothing design (featuring several brands and companies of his own devising). [http://www.furryjadefox.com/ Furry Jade Fox]

*[[Kelvin the Lion]] is a fairly popular artist whose current endeavors include (among others) the progressive webcomic ''[[Nivlek]]'', about the adventures of Nivlek the [[snow leopard]] who enjoys wearing diapers and eating. Nivlek remains to be one of the more amusing "weird" furry comics out there, and his talent does not go unnoticed. [http://www.geocities.com/kelvinthelion/index.html Kelvin's Furry Den]

*[[FangKit]] has been drawing babyfurs for most of this decade, and continues to improve his artistic talent. His unique style and knack for cuteness and humor combine to make him favored by babyfurs throughout the community. [http://www.babyfox.org.uk/foxnip/ FangKit's Pics]

*[[OzzyFox]], a student of animation at the Art Institute of Houston, consistently produces work on a regular basis that ranges from cuddly-cute to controversial and mature. [http://foxcrib.sk1p.com/ Fox Crib]

*[[IkazuchiFox]] (commonly known by friends as "Ikajuicy") is found in the definition for "ubercute" listed in UrbanDictionary. He is one of the few amateur babyfur artists with work unique and notable enough to be recognized by the fandom. Although Ikazuchi has not done a sketch for a long time, it is the hope of many furs that he will start drawing again.

*[[Astolpho]] draws babyfurs and turns a steady trade in commissions involving them. His successes and sudden popularity following his appearance in the babyfur community in 2003 have sparked a number of ongoing controversies within it. Some of Astolpho's work is now available at [[Karis' Playground]].

*[[Cargo Weasel]]'s art leans strongly toward the "DL" side of "AB/DL," showing off mature diaper-related concepts that fit perfectly with his coloring and shading style. His art was featured on a now-defunct mailing list, but can still be found on his website: [http://www.cargoweasel.com/ Cargo Weasel: Art Complex]

===Art ''about'' babyfurs===
Some [[furry fandom]] artists have covered the topic of babyfurs, typically taking the same line as [[:Category:Media coverage|external commentators on the entire fandom]]:

*''[[West Corner Of the Park (comic)|West Corner Of the Park]]'''s coverage has been [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20051002 generally] [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20051016 negative], although they did make an exception for the [http://www.graphxpress.com/cgi-bin/wcotp.cgi?date=20060521 Pink Panzer]

===Writers===
*[[CS Fox]], also known as Kit Fox and Cyprus Sygial, is possibly the best known babyfur writer in the community. His works are the biggest features in the stories section at Nursery Tails, and since his submissions to Proxima's site he has gone on to host his own website showing off babyfur fiction of his own and by newer babyfur writers. The latest rendition of CS Fox's site, [http://www.foxtalestimes.com/ Fox Tales Times], is being completed as this article is written. Its biggest feature is CS Fox's renowned AB/DL RPGM2K-based game, Weston Academy. The website also sports plenty of comics and art related to the RPG.

*[[Firemane]]'s fiction is prominently featured on CS Fox's fiction page.

*[[Fieval Mouse]]'s work is still favored by many furs. His stories are roughly 5 years old and are found on Proxima's Nursery Tails, featuring illustrations by Doodles.

==Babyfur as a paraphilia==

A phenomenon exists throughout the furry fandom where it appears that a large amount of its members find a sexual attraction to anthropomorphic animals. As babyfurs are also furries, the phenomenon adheres to babyfurs as well. Because most babyfurs tend to enjoy roleplaying as children or toddlers, the question constantly arises: Are babyfurs pedophiles?

===Babyfur versus pedophilia===
Babyfurs are not inherently pedophiles. While babyfurs roleplay as underage characters, the vast majority are not sexually attracted to children.

As babyfurs are defined in section 1, most roleplay as young furries usually because of their longing to be young again; in fact, some babyfurs don't even include a sexual element in their interests (and some do). Babyfurs assert that an adult roleplaying a child should not be considered the same thing as a child. In fact, many Babyfurs despise pedophilia because often, they either had a happy childhood or want childhood to be a time of innocence and happiness and therefore do not want that picture to be destroyed by pedophilia.

As with the general population, however, a small subset of babyfurs may be pedophiles.

===Babyfurs vs. non-babyfurs===
The concept of babyfurs has grown quite contentious with some members of the [[fandom]]. Some furries and non-furries who have identified themselves as babyfurs or were identified by others as being babyfurs have acted inappropriately at [[convention]]s in the past. Such contentious behavior includes wearing diapers in public without using proper hygiene and trying to push uninterested people into babyfur [[roleplay]], including sexual roleplay. These behaviors are frowned upon by the babyfur community in general, and such incidents, when perpetrated by babyfurs, are done by a small number of babyfurs within a larger babyfur community. The community in general adopted guidelines of conduct for how to act in public after a rash of such incidents at conventions in an effort to police themselves.

Furries who dislike babyfurs may do so for a variety of common points, including:

*Grossed out by the concept of diaper lovers (or, in the aforementioned cases, by the smell)
*False belief that all babyfurs are pedophiles
*Previous negative experiences with those who identify themselves as babyfurs or were identified by others as being babyfurs.
*Fear that babyfur behavior will be associated as a characteristic of the general fandom, especially in the media

While there is some conflict between babyfurs and the general fandom, such conflicts are not widespread throughout the entire fandom nor are they very severe. The majority of babyfurs and non-babyfurs coexist quite well because the majority of babyfurs do not engage in the more extreme behaviors mentioned here.

==Babyfur online==

Babyfurs have a well established community full of art, resources, and as many modes of communication as the rest of the furry fandom.

=== Websites ===
====Informative pages====
Want to learn more about babyfurs, who they are, and why they are? These web pages may be helpful.
*[http://understanding.infantilism.org Understanding Infantilism] by [[BitterGrey]]
*[http://babyfur.com Online Babyfur Community] by [[LilPup]]

[[Image:sr_secondlife.jpg|thumb|300px|right|Two babyfurs hug in the world of [[Second Life]].]]

====Art and fiction pages====
*[http://www.nurserytails.ca Nursery Tails] by [[Proxima Centauri]]
*[http://www.foxtalestimes.com Fox Tales Times] by [[CS Fox]]
*[http://foxcrib.sk1p.com/ Fox Crib] by [[OzzyFox]]
*[http://www.furryjadefox.com Furry Jade Fox] by [[JadeFox]]
*[http://www.karisplayground.com/ Karis' Playground] by [[Karis]]

====LiveJournal communities====

*[http://community.livejournal.com/babyfur/ Babyfur Community]

===Mailing lists===

*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Babyfur_Cubhouse/ Babyfur C'ubhouse]
*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clubcargo/ Club Cargo]
*[http://clubs.wanadoo.co.uk/group/group.cfm?GID=3103378 LilFursCubhouse]
*[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MDBabyFurs/ Maryland Babyfurs]

===Internet Relay Chat===

*[http://www.babyfox.org.uk/babyfurs/ Furnet #babyfurs] (PG13 rating)
*[http://www.furnet.org/news/ Furnet #babyfur] (Unrated)

===Bulletin Boards and Forums===

*[http://foxtalestimes.actifforum.com/index.forum Fox Tales Forum] (G rating)

===MUCKs===

[[The Astonishing Treehouse of the Secret Moon|The Treehouse]] on [[Tapestries]] is a common meeting place for lilfurs and ageplayers. Just teleport to ''secretmoon'' and you're there.

===Second Life===

Many babyfurs can be found in [[Second Life]]. A major meeting place for babyfurs is the babyfur [[island (Second Life)|sim]] called [[Cub Conclave]], created and run by [[Raven Welesa]].
[[Category:Paraphilias]]
[[Category:Social groups]]
{{Featured article}}

User talk:Astolpho

2006-11-22T02:12:47Z

Astolpho: /* About recent edits */

Hi there, Rootdown - welcome to WikiFur! Let me know on my [[User talk:GreenReaper|user talk]] page if you need any [[help]] not already provided. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 06:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

----
<nowiki>:o</nowiki> --[[User:Verix|Verix]] 07:46, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:<nowiki>D:</nowiki> --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:02, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::<nowiki>:3</nowiki> --[[User:Verix|Verix]] 21:53, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Hay its rootdown :) --{{UT|ToyDragon}}

Yo hey there man --[[Image:xaxtiny.png]][[User:Xax|?]] 02:47, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

----

Also, just FYI, guys, I'm new to the wiki editing thing and I'm still picking up the style conventions and tags and so on. If I make any flubs in my formatting please do correct them.--[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 22:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Hey and welcome. :) Don't worry about mistakes, tis why we are a wiki. You'll pick the tags up quickly. ^^ --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 02:50, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Some chatter going on about you at [[babyfur]] and was wondering if you're still a babyfur artist. Skippy removed you stating you are no longer, but that conflicts with [[Astolpho]]. I know you still draw for a lot of babyfurs.. just .. your friends ;) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:06, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Yeah, Skippy has some kind of nonsensical personal beef with me and we can in all likelihood expect to see more of this kind of behavior from him in the future. I still draw that stuff, still post the comics publicly to the Astolpho livejournal, and most recently uploaded a few of the babyfur-themed drawings to my VCL account, so there you have it. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 17:10, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::Good. I was seriously concerned that I was losing my mind in seeing those things. They're cute, and you make a wonderful lion cub. Don't change ;) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:12, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== About recent edits ==

Please keep your "revisions" neutral and without any personal point of view on the subject matter. Also note that most edits that remove a great deal of information will usually be reverted. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 14:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

::I wrote the bulk of the original information in both articles you reverted (they're both about me). My understanding was that editing your own articles is generally kosher, and I've seen plenty of articles about individuals that are brief. Is there some sort of rule that wikifur editors have to follow that when changes to articles are made they have to undo them to discourage people from participating, or do you guys just really really enjoy the sensation of exercising authority? Seems like the last time I got involved in wikifur that was the score. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 21:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Welcome to WikiFur! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 22:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

::: The issue here is that removing large pieces of pieces of articles/entire articles is generally frowned upon. Especially since in this case, one of the articles was a featured article. Now if there is a reason why you feel that all of the text should be removed, our suggestion is that you bring this up on the talk page so that others can have a chance to contribute to the discussion. This is known as [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|reaching consensus]] and is the generally accepted way of doing significant updates on articles on a Wiki. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 23:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
:::: Well that's great, I can see consensus as being important to articles that are used as reference sources relevant to a large number of people, like say a convention or art gallery, but to say that a consensus is important on articles about individuals is nonsensical, in my opinion. ''Especially'' when, as I've already said, allowing individual users the majority of editorial control over articles about themselves is (to the best of my knowledge) a precedented standard.
:::: And if consensus really was what was at issue here, my edits wouldn't have been wholly reverted like I was some kind of goofy troll, they would have been updated to bring them in line with wikifur standards. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 02:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::If you want that kind of control, you should ask for it first, and it will be noted using one of the tags on the [[WikiFur:Personal information|personal information page]]. Frankly, I thought your edits were poor. They removed a lot of interesting details (like the background to the name "Astolpho" and the evolution of "squigglies") and replaced them with bare facts. What was there was not perfect, but it provided far more interesting and valid information than what is there now. No good reason was given for the removal of this information. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 10:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::I have no problem with other people making edits to the articles to bring them in line with wikifur standards or to add relevant information. What I'm riled about here is this is the second time I've made edits to articles either about me or directly relevant to me as an individual without any malicious intent and had them immediately reverted by administrators as though I was ''tampering'' with them. I thought the old articles were unnecessarily long and self-involved. I don't feel as though I need to provide a reason for the removal of certain personal information, beyond the articles appear high on the results for google searches about me and the idea of a wikifur article - particularly the articles as they were - being representative of me makes me uncomfortable. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 02:12, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm a bit disappointed in the edit summaries (Revised and expanded for 2007!) ;makes it look like he's trying to slip it by us. But one of our traditions in WikiFur is that we allow people to keep two different identities separate, and aside from being shorter than the last version, the new articles aren't bad ones. --[[User:Rat|Rat]]
:::: It was a joke. Saying the opposite of what I actually did there was supposed to be funny. ''I'' laughed, anyway. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 02:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Holy fucking shit, posting in a sticky! {{unsigned|76.171.139.245}}

User talk:Astolpho

2006-11-21T02:14:59Z

Astolpho: /* About recent edits */

Hi there, Rootdown - welcome to WikiFur! Let me know on my [[User talk:GreenReaper|user talk]] page if you need any [[help]] not already provided. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 06:29, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

----
<nowiki>:o</nowiki> --[[User:Verix|Verix]] 07:46, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:<nowiki>D:</nowiki> --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:02, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::<nowiki>:3</nowiki> --[[User:Verix|Verix]] 21:53, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Hay its rootdown :) --{{UT|ToyDragon}}

Yo hey there man --[[Image:xaxtiny.png]][[User:Xax|?]] 02:47, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

----

Also, just FYI, guys, I'm new to the wiki editing thing and I'm still picking up the style conventions and tags and so on. If I make any flubs in my formatting please do correct them.--[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 22:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Hey and welcome. :) Don't worry about mistakes, tis why we are a wiki. You'll pick the tags up quickly. ^^ --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 02:50, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Some chatter going on about you at [[babyfur]] and was wondering if you're still a babyfur artist. Skippy removed you stating you are no longer, but that conflicts with [[Astolpho]]. I know you still draw for a lot of babyfurs.. just .. your friends ;) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:06, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:Yeah, Skippy has some kind of nonsensical personal beef with me and we can in all likelihood expect to see more of this kind of behavior from him in the future. I still draw that stuff, still post the comics publicly to the Astolpho livejournal, and most recently uploaded a few of the babyfur-themed drawings to my VCL account, so there you have it. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 17:10, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::Good. I was seriously concerned that I was losing my mind in seeing those things. They're cute, and you make a wonderful lion cub. Don't change ;) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:12, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== About recent edits ==

Please keep your "revisions" neutral and without any personal point of view on the subject matter. Also note that most edits that remove a great deal of information will usually be reverted. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 14:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

::I wrote the bulk of the original information in both articles you reverted (they're both about me). My understanding was that editing your own articles is generally kosher, and I've seen plenty of articles about individuals that are brief. Is there some sort of rule that wikifur editors have to follow that when changes to articles are made they have to undo them to discourage people from participating, or do you guys just really really enjoy the sensation of exercising authority? Seems like the last time I got involved in wikifur that was the score. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 21:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

:::Welcome to WikiFur! --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 22:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

::: The issue here is that removing large pieces of pieces of articles/entire articles is generally frowned upon. Especially since in this case, one of the articles was a featured article. Now if there is a reason why you feel that all of the text should be removed, our suggestion is that you bring this up on the talk page so that others can have a chance to contribute to the discussion. This is known as [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Consensus|reaching consensus]] and is the generally accepted way of doing significant updates on articles on a Wiki. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 23:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
:::: Well that's great, I can see consensus as being important to articles that are used as reference sources relevant to a large number of people, like say a convention or art gallery, but to say that a consensus is important on articles about individuals is nonsensical, in my opinion. ''Especially'' when, as I've already said, allowing individual users the majority of editorial control over articles about themselves is (to the best of my knowledge) a precedented standard.
:::: And if consensus really was what was at issue here, my edits wouldn't have been wholly reverted like I was some kind of goofy troll, they would have been updated to bring them in line with wikifur standards. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 02:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm a bit disappointed in the edit summaries (Revised and expanded for 2007!) ;makes it look like he's trying to slip it by us. But one of our traditions in WikiFur is that we allow people to keep two different identities separate, and aside from being shorter than the last version, the new articles aren't bad ones. --[[User:Rat|Rat]]
:::: It was a joke. Saying the opposite of what I actually did there was supposed to be funny. ''I'' laughed, anyway. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 02:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

List of furry LiveJournal communities

2006-11-20T22:39:25Z

Astolpho: /* Interests */

Below is a '''list of furry LiveJournal communities''', alphabetical by heading. As of August 2006, [[LiveJournal]]'s search by interest listed 405 communities [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=furry interested in "furry"]. This does not completely overlap with related interests, such as [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=anthropomorphics anthropomorphics] (205), [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=furs furs] (218), [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=fursuits fursuits] (132), [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=yiff yiff] (138), ''et cetera''.

<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
==Art==
<nowiki>*</nowiki> marks communities are not exclusively furry.
=== [[Furry art]] ===
* [http://community.livejournal.com/were_art/ Anthro & Animal Artists]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/contestcentral/ A Place to Plug Your Art Contest] *
* [http://community.livejournal.com/charsheets/ Character Sheets R Us]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fantasywildlife/ Fantasy Wildlife]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furryartists/ Furry Artists]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furryicons/ Furry Icons]
* '''Adult Material''':
* [http://community.livejournal.com/anthro_guro/ Anthro EroGuro]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophile/ Dracophile]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophilia/ Dracophilia]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophiliac/ Dracophiliac]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/erotic_equine/ Erotic Equine]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fur_porn/ Fur Porn]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furotica/ Furotica]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_pinups/ Furry Pinups]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphonerotica/ Gryphon Erotica]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/yiffyness/ Yiffyness]
* '''Artist and Commissioner Discussion''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/ Artists Beware]*
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furarthorrors/ Fur Art Horrors] (by invitation only)
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artistrecommend/ Recommending Artists] *

=== [[Art exchange]]s ===

* '''General''':
** '''[[Fur Art Xchange]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furartxchange/ Furry Art Exchange] (closed)
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furartxchange2/ Fur Art Exchange 2]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furoticxchange/ Furotic Exchange]

* '''[[Species]]''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/avian_exchange/ Avian Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/caninexchange Canine Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/dragon_exchange/ Dragon Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/equinexchange/ Equine Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphon_xchange/ Gryphon Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/ggexchange/ Gryphon's Guild Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/hybridxchange/ Hybrid Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/lapinexchange/ Lapine Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/mlp_artxchange/ My Little Pony Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/mythicexchange2 Mythic Exchange 2]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/paleo_exchange/ Paleo Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/reptile_xchange/ Reptile Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/taur_xchange/ Taur Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wildcatxchange Wild Cat Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolfxchange/ Wolf Exchange]

* '''Various''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/100x100xchnge/ 100x100 Icon Exchange] *
** [http://community.livejournal.com/conbadges/ Conbadge Exchange] *

=== Art projects ===

* '''Playing cards'''
** '''[[The Bestiary (playing cards)|The Bestiary]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/bestiarycards/ Bestiary Cards]
** '''[[Kennel Club]]''': [http://thekennelclub.livejournal.com/ The Kennel Club]
* '''Cookbooks'''
** '''[[Recipe Portfolio]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/recipeportfolio/ Furry Cookbook Portfolio]
* '''Themed'''
** '''[[Serpentes]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/snakefolio/ Serpentes]

=== Art archives ===

*'''[[ArtVark]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artsnark/ Art Snark] (unofficial, complaints community)
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artvarkbootcamp/ Camp Artvark] (official community)

*'''[[Fur Affinity]]''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furaffinity/ Fur Affinity]

*'''[[VCL]]:'''
** '''[[VCL Horrors]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/vclhorrors/ The Horrors of VCL]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/vcl_admin_diary/ Musings of the VCL admins]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/vclpickoftheday/ VCL Pick of the Day]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/vcl_kink/ The Weird, Wild, & Wonderful of VCL]

*'''[[Yerf]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yerf/ Yerf]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yerf_hopefuls/ Yerf Hopefuls]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/anti_yerf/ The Yerf/Non-Yerf Mutual Agree to Disagree Society]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yerf_vent/ Yerf Vent]

==Conventions==
*'''[[Anthrocon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/anthrocon/ Anthrocon] (unofficial)
*'''[[C-ACE]] (Canadian Arts and Cartooning Expo):''' [http://community.livejournal.com/cace_discuss/ CACE] (unofficial)
*'''[[Califur]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/califur/ Califur]
*'''[[Feral!|Camp Feral!]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/feral_campers/ Feral_Campers] (unofficial)
*'''[[Cape May Fur Meet]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/capemayfurmeet CapeMayFurMeet]
*'''[[Eurofurence]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/eurofurence/ Eurofurence] (unofficial)
*'''[[FurFright]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furfright FurFright]
*'''[[Furry Cruise]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furrycruise/ FurryCruise]
*'''[[Furry Fiesta]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furryfiesta/ FurryFiesta]
*'''[[Furry Weekend Atlanta]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furryweekend FurryWeekend] (official)
*'''[[Further Confusion]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furcon/ FurCon]
*'''[[Megaplex]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/megaplex/ Megaplex] (official)
*'''[[Mephit Furmeet]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mfm/ MFM]
*'''[[Midwest FurFest]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/midwest_furfest/ Midwest_FurFest] (unofficial)
*'''[[Morphicon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ohiomorphicon/ OhioMorphicon] (unofficial)
*'''[[Oklacon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/Oklacon/ Oklacon]
*'''[[Rocket City Furmeet]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/rcfm/ RCFM]
*'''Operations''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furoperations/ Furry Convention Operations]

==Costuming and [[fursuit]]s==
* [http://community.livejournal.com/behindtheseams/ BehindTheSeams]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuit Fursuit]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuitauctions/ Fursuit Auctions]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuitlounge/ Fursuit Lounge]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fur_suits/ Fur Suits]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuits/ Fursuits]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuitters/ Fursuitters]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/ilovetails/ I Love Tails]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/ukfursuit/ UK Fursuit]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/inside_the_suit/ Who's inside the suit?]

==Interests==

* '''General''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrtive/ furrtive (The Furry Community)]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/the_fur_pad/ The Fur Pad]
* '''[[Animal]] photographs''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/baaaaabyanimals/ Baaaaaby Animals]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/canine_photos/ Canine Photos]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/huskybreak/ Husky specific Photos]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wildphotos/ Wildphotos]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolfphotography/ Wolf Photography]
* '''[[Babyfur]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/babyfur/ Babyfur community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/baby_furs/ Babyfurs Playpen]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/eu_babyfurs/ European Babyfurs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_daycare/ Furry Daycare]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furryregression/ Furry Age Regression]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/lilfurs/ Little Furs]
* '''[[Baked Furs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/bakedfurs/ Baked Furs]
* '''[[Free paws|Bare paws]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/barepaws/ Furry, bare paw enthusiasts' Journal]
* '''Classical music''': [http://community.livejournal.com/classical_furs/ The Classical Music Furry Community]
* '''Cars:''' (see Motors below)
* '''Cooking:''' [[Furs that Cook]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/fursthatcook/ Furs That Cook]
* '''Cowboys & Western Lifestyle:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/cowboyfurs/ Cowboy Furs]
* '''[[DDR]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ddr_furs/ DDR Furs]
* '''Drinking:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/drinkingfurs/ Furs that drink]
* '''Education:'''
** '''College degrees''': [[Smart Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/smart_furs/ Smart Furs]
** [[Furries in University and College]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furs_in_uni/ Furries in University and College]
* '''Erotica:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furotica/ Furotica]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furryvore/ LJ Furry Vore Community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yiff/ Yiff]
* '''Exercise:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryfitness/ Furry Fitness]
* '''[[Fat fur|Fatfur]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/fatfurs/ Fatfurs]
* '''[[Funday PawPet Show]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pawpet/ Funday PawPet Show]
* '''[[Furgonomics]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furgonomics/ Furgonomics Community]
*'''Gaming:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furgamers/ Fur Gamers]
** '''[[Wikipedia:World of Warcraft|World of Warcraft]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/fursofwow/ Furries of World of Warcraft]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/xboxlive_furs/ Furs of XBox Live]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Geocaching|Geocaching]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrycachers/ Geocaching furries]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Goth|Goth]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/gothic_furries/ Gothic_Furries]
* '''[[wikipedia:indie|Indie]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/indie_furs/ Indie Furs]
* '''[[Inflatophilia]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/inflationfurs/ InflationFurs]
* '''[[IRC]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/anthrochat/ Anthrochat]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Linux|Linux]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/linuxfurs/ Linux Furs]
* '''Meeting other furs:''' [[Furry Connect]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_connect/ Furry Connect]
* '''Modeling (photos):''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrealmodels/ Furs That Model]
* '''Motors:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/anth_road_track/ Anthroad & Track: The Furry Motorsports Community]
** [[Motor Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/motor_furs/ Motor Furs]
* '''[[:Category:Philosophy|Philosophy]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furjectivists/ Furry Objectivists]
* '''[[Nazi Furs]]''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/nazi_furs/ Nazi Furs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/racist_furs/ Racist Furs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/skinhead_furs/ Skinhead Furs]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Piracy|Pirates]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/pirate_furs/ Pirate Furries]
* '''[[plush toy|Plushie]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/plush_love/ Plush Love]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/plushtails/ Plush Tails]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/plush_workshop/ Plush Workshop]
* '''Pow wows''': [http://community.livejournal.com/pow_wow_furries/ Pow wow furries]
* '''[[:Category:Radio|Radio]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/radiofurs/ Radio Furs]
* '''Reading:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryreaders/ Furry Readers]
* '''[[Second Life]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/secondlife_furs/ Second Life Furry Community]
* '''[[Soviet Furs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/soviet_furs/ Soviet Furs (+DDR)]
* '''Spandex:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/slinkyfurs/ Slinky Furs]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/spandexfurs/ Spandex Furs]
* '''[[Tapestries]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/tapestries/ Tapestries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/golden_lash/ Tapestries' The Golden Lash]
* '''[[wikipedia:Tattoo|Tattoo]]ing:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrytattoos/ Furry (skin) Art]
* '''[[Therian]]s, furs and [[otherkin]] with issues:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mental_shifters/ Mental Shifters Community Journal]
* '''Weapons:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/gun_furry/ Furry Gun owners]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Microsoft Windows|Windows]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/windowsfurs/ Windows Furs]
* '''Writing:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrywriters/ Furry Writers]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furreviews/ Fur Reviews]

==Languages other than English==
*'''Interlingua:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/iala_furry/ IALA Furry]
*'''Russian:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ru_furry/ Русскоязычный портал Furry]

==Location==

===Africa===
*'''[[:Category:South Africa|South Africa]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/za_furs/ South African Furs] (Deleted (June 2006?))

===Asia===
====Regions====
*'''Asia:''' [[AnthroAsia]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/anthroasia/ AnthroAsia LJ community]

===Europe===
====Regions====
*'''Europe:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/eurofurs/ Eurofurs Community]

====Countries====
*'''[[:Category:Finland|Finland]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/finnfurs/ FinnFurs]
*'''[[:Category:Netherlands|The Netherlands]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/dutchfurs/ Dutch Furs]
*'''[[:Category:Norway|Norway]]:''' [[Norwegian Paws]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/norpaws/ Norpaws]
*'''[[:Category:Sweden|Sweden]]:'''
** [[Gothenburg Furry List]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/gotfur/ Gothenburg Furry List]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/swefur/ Swedish Furry Community's Journal]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/swedefurs Gathering Place for Swedish Furries]
*'''[[:Category:United Kingdom|United Kingdom]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryuk/ furryUK]

===North America===
====[[:Category:Canada|Canada]]====
=====Regions=====
*'''Canada:''' [[Canadian Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/canadianfurs/ Canadian Furs]

=====Provinces=====
*'''Alberta:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/albertafurs/ Alberta Furs]
**'''Calgary:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/calgaryfur/ Calgary Furs]
*'''[[:Category:British Columbia|British Columbia]]'''
**'''Vancouver:'''
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/vanfurs/ Vancouver Furs]
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/vfur_chat/ Vancouver Furs General Chat]
** '''Vancouver Island:''' '''[[Vancouver Island Furs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/vifur/ Vancouver Island Furs]
*'''Manitoba'''
**'''Southern Manitoba:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/smbfurs/ Southern Manitoba Furs]
*'''Ontario'''
**'''Kingston:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/k_town_furries/ K-Town Furries]
**'''Northern Ontario:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/onf/ Ontario Northland Furries]
**'''Ottawa:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ottfur/ Ottawa Furries]
**'''Toronto:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/toronto_furry/ toronto-furry]
*'''Québec'''
**'''Montreal:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/monfur/ Montreal Furries]

====United States====
=====Regions=====
*'''New England:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/newenglandfurs/ New England Furs]
*'''East Coast:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/eastcoastfurs East Coast Furs]
*'''Gulf Coast:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/gulfcoast_furs/ Furries in and Around the Gulf of Mexico]
*'''Midwest:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/midwestfurs Midwest/Heartland Furs]
*'''South:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/southrnfriedfur/ Southern Fried Furs]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/dirtysouth_furs/ Dirty South Furs]
*'''Southwest Lake Michigan (IN/IL/WI) - [[LAFF]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/lafflist Lake Area Furry Friends]
*'''Rockies:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mountain_furs High Mountain Furries]
*'''West Coast:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/westcoastfurs/ The Furs of the West Coast]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/pacificfurrs/ Pacific Furrs]

=====States=====
*'''[[:Category:Alabama|Alabama]]:'''
**'''[[AuburnFurs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/auburnfurs/ Auburn (and East Alabama) Furries' Journal]

*'''[[:Category:Arkansas|Arkansas]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/cenarkfurs/ Central Arkansas Furs Association]

*'''[[:Category:California|California]]:'''
**'''Mid-California:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mid_cali_furs/ Mid-California Fur/Scalie/Anthro/Therian Community]
**'''Sacramento and Northern California:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/sacfurs/ Sacramento Furries]
**'''Northern California:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/norcalfurs/ Northern California Furs]
**'''San Francisco Bay:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/bafur/ San Francisco Bay Area Furries]
**'''Southern California:'''
*** [[SoCalFurs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/socalfurs/ Southern California Furs]
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/socalfurryteens/ Southern California Furry Teens]
**'''Fresno:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/valley_furs/ Central Valley Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Colorado|Colorado]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/colofurs/ Colorado Furries]

*'''[[:Category:Connecticut|Connecticut]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ctfurs/ Connecticut Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Florida|Florida]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/floridafurs/ Florida Furs]
**'''Jacksonville:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/jaxfurs/ Jax Furs]
**'''Orlando:''' [[Orlando Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/orlando_furs/ Orlando Furs]
** [[Palm Beach County Furries]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/palmbeachfurs/ Palm Beach County Furries]

*'''[[:Category:Georgia|Georgia]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/georgiafurs/ Georgia Furs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/atlanta_furs/ Atlanta Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Idaho|Idaho]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/idaho_furs/ Idaho furs, weres, fantasy lovers, etc.]

*'''[[:Category:Iowa|Iowa]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/sniff_furry/ Social Network for Iowa's Friendly Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Kansas|Kansas]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/kcfur/ Kansas City Fur Community]

*'''[[:Category:Kentucky|Kentucky]]:''' [[Bluegrass Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/bluegrass_furs/ Bluegrass Furs Community]

*'''[[:Category:Louisiana|Louisiana]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/louisianafurs/ Louisiana Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Maine|Maine]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mainefurs/ Maine Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Maryland|Maryland]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/md_furs/ md_furs]

*'''[[:Category:Michigan|Michigan]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mifur/ mifur]

*'''[[:Category:Minnesota|Minnesota]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/sncfurs/ MN Furmeets]

*'''[[:Category:Missouri|Missouri]]:'''
**'''St Louis:''' [[Arch Regional Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/arf_baby/ ARF (Arch Regional Furs)]

*'''[[:Category:New Jersey|New Jersey]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/newjerseyfurs/ New Jersey Furs]

*'''[[:Category:New Mexico|New Mexico]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nmfurcentral/ New Mexico Furry Group]

*'''[[:Category:New York|New York]]:'''
**'''Buffalo (and West NY area)''': [http://community.livejournal.com/buffalofurs/ Buffalo Furs]
**'''Long Island:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/li_furs/ Long Island Furs]
**'''Plattsburgh:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/plattsburghfur/ Plattsburgh Furs Unite]
**'''Rochester:''' [[Area of Rochester Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/rochesterfurs/ Area of Rochester Furs (ARF)]

*'''[[:Category:North Carolina|North Carolina]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nc_furs/ NC Furs]
**'''Triad area:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nctriadfurs/ NC Triad Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Ohio|Ohio]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ohiofurs/ Ohio Furries]
**''NorthEast Ohio:'' [[NEOFurs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/neofurs/ North East Ohio Furries (NEO Furs)]

*'''[[:Category:Oklahoma|Oklahoma]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/oklahoma_furs/ Oklahoma Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Oregon|Oregon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/oregonfurs/ Oregon Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Pennsylvania|Pennsylvania]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pa_furry/ PA-Furry]
**'''Pittsburgh:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pittsfurghers/ pittsfurghers]

*'''[[:Category:Tennessee|Tennessee]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/tnfurs/ Tennessee Furs]
**'''[[Wikipedia:Chattanooga, Tennessee|Chattanooga]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/chatttownfurs/ Chatt-Town Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Texas|Texas]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texan_furries/ Texan Furry Community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texasareafurs/ Texas Area Furry Friends]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texas_furry/ Texas Furries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texasfurs/ Texas Furs LJ Community]

*'''[[:Category:Virginia|Virginia]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furginia/ Furginia Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Washington|Washington]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/washingtonfurs/ Washington Furs]
**'''Puget Sound:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pugetsoundfurs/ Puget Sound Furries]
**'''Spokane:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/spokanefurs/ Spokane Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Wisconsin|Wisconsin]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/wi_furs/ Wisconsin Furries]
**'''Madison:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/madisonfurry/ Madison Furry]

===South America===
*'''[[:Category:Chile|Chile]]:''' [[Furry Chile]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furrychile/ Furry Chile LJ]

==Occupations and hobbies==
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_farmers/ Furry Farmers]
*'''Firefighting:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/firefighterfurs/ FireFighterFurs]
*'''Modelling:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrealmodels/ Modeling Furries]
*'''Music:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_composers/ Furry Composers]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrydjs/ Furry DJs]
* '''Truck drivers''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/trucker_furs/ Trucker Furs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/trucking_furs/ Trucking Furs]

==Opinions and politics==
*'''Being fur-curious:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pseudofur/ Pseudofurs]
*'''Being open-minded:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/openpaws/ OpenPaws]
*'''Conservatism:'''
**[[ConFURvatives]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/confurvatives/ ConFURvatives]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/rightiefurs/ Right-paw'd Furs]
*'''Liberalism:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/leftfurs/ Left-Wing Furries]
*'''Frustrated with furry fandom:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/frustrated_furs/ Frustrated Furs]
*'''Tired of furry fandom:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/jaded_furs/ Jaded Furries]
*'''Unification of furries:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nationalist_fur/ Nationalist Furries]
*'''Rants on certain aspects of furry fandom:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryrants/ Furry Rants]

===Anti-Furries===
*[http://community.livejournal.com/antifurry/ The Anti-Furry Movement]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/wearecyd/ CYD Livejournal]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/deathtofurries/ Death to Furries]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furry_holocaust/ Discussion of the Furry/Otherkin Sickness]
*[[Furbid Horrors]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furbid_horrors/ Furbid Horrors]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/fur_furs/ Fur Furs]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furriesarescum/ Furries Are Scum's Journal]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furantifur/ Furries who Hate Furries]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furrydrama/ Furry Drama Central]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/fursecution/ Fursecution]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/hatefurries/ I Hate Furries]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/laffdrama/ LAFF Drama]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/nlsa/ Nasty Little Shites Association]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/trichology/ Trichology: The Study of Furries (and Otherkin)'s Journal]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/vclhorrors/ VCL Horrors Redux]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/vcl_snark/ VCL Snark]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/wtf_fa/ WTF FA]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/wtf_vcl/ WTF VCL]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/we_hate_furries/ We Hate Furries]

== Religions and faiths ==
*'''[[Christian]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrychristians/ Furry Christians]
*'''Jewish:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/jewishfurs/ Jewish Furs]
*'''Pagan:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/paganfur/ Pagan Furry Community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furspirit/ Fur Spirit]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/soulshift/ Soulshift] (Deleted September 2006)

== Sexuality and relationships ==
* '''[[BDSM]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/bound_paw/ Bound Paw]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/bisexual_furs/ Bisexual Furs and Friends]
*'''[[Gay]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfurries/ Gayfurries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrybears/ Gay Bear Furries]
* '''Lesbian and bisexual female''': [http://community.livejournal.com/sapphic_kin/ Sapphic Kin]

* '''Relationship status''':
** '''Married''': [http://community.livejournal.com/marriedfurs/ Married Furs' Journal]
** '''Monogamy''': [http://community.livejournal.com/mono_furries/ Where Monogamous Furries Unite]
** '''[[Polyamory]]''': [[Poly furries]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/poly_furries/ Polyamorous Furries]
** '''Single''': [http://community.livejournal.com/singlefurs/ Singleton Furry Fans]

*'''Straight:''' [[Straight Fur]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/straightfur/ Straight Fur]
* '''[[Therian]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/theriansex/ Therian Sexuality]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/xenofetish/ Xenofetish]

==Species==
*'''[[Avian]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/featheries/ Featheries]

*'''[[Bat]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/battyfriends/ Bat Fursuits Unite]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/bats/ Bat Lovers Unite!]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/nightwings/ Night Wings]

*'''[[Canine]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/k9furs/ Canine Furries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wild_canines/ Wild Canines]

*'''[[Dragon]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/alfandria/ Alfandria]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/art_dragon/ Art Dragon]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/bad_dragon/ Bad Dragon]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophilia/ Dracophilia]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/dragonnia/ Dragonnia]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/draconics/ Dragons on LiveJournal]

*'''[[Equine]]s:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/erotic_equine/ Erotic Equine]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/equine_furs/ LJ Stables]

*'''[[Feline]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/big_cat_anthros/ Big Cat Anthro Club @ LJ]
**'''[[Chakat]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/chakatheaven/ Chakat Heaven]
**'''[[Lion]]s:'''
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/lionessfurries/ Lioness furry club]
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/lion_furs/ Lion Furs]
**'''[[Tiger]]s''': [http://community.livejournal.com/tiger_furs/ Tiger Furs]

*'''[[Ferret]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ferret_furs/ The Ferret Holt]

*'''[[Fox]]es:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/foxfurries/ Fox Furries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/the_fox_kin/ The Fox Kin]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/kitsune_kin/ Kitsune-kin]

*'''[[Gryphon]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/bad_gryphon/ Bad Gryphon]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphonerotica/ Gryphon Erotica]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphonguild/ Gryphon Guild]

*'''[[Kangaroo]]s:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/kangaroos/ Kangaroos]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/roo_paradise/ A Kangaroo's Paradise]

*'''[[Meerkat]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/meerkats/ International House Of Meerkats]

*'''[[Raccoon]]s:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/erotic_raccoon/ Erotic Raccoon]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/raccoon_furs/ Furry Raccoons]

*'''[[Rodent]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/rodentfurs/ Rodent Furs Community]

*'''[[Skunk]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/skunkfurs/ Skunk Furs]

*'''[[Wolf|Wolves]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/true_werewolf/ True Werewolf]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_clan/ Wolf Clan]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_eyes/ Wolf Eyes]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolffoxnfolfy/ Wolf, Fox and Folfy]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_lovers/ Wolf Lovers]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/thewolfpack/ The Wolfpack]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_paws/ Wolf Paws]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolfspirits/ Wolf Spirits]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolvesmountain/ Wolves' Mountain]

==Traits==
*'''Disabled:''' [[Furs On Wheels]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furs_on_wheels/profile Furs on Wheels]
*'''[[Female]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryfems/ Furry Fems]
*'''[[Greymuzzle]] (over 30 years of age):''' [http://community.livejournal.com/greymuzzle/ Greymuzzles' Journal]
*'''[[Lifestyler]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/lifestylers/ Anthropomorphic Lifestyles Community]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/musclefurs/ Muscle furries community]
*'''Parents:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryparents/ Furry Parents]
*'''Ravers:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryravers/ Furry Ravers]
*'''[[Transgender]]ed:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/transfurry/ Transfurry Community]
* '''Vegetarians:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/herbivores/ Furry Vegetarians LiveJournal (herbivores)]
*'''Victims of abuse:''' [[Wounded Paws]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/woundedpaws/ Wounded Paws]

==Websites==

*'''[[FurBid-SF]]''':
**[http://community.livejournal.com/furbid/ FurBid]
**[[Furbid Horrors]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furbid_horrors/ FurBid horrors]
*'''[[Internet Furry Proximity Locator]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/ifpl/ IFPL]
*'''[[pounced.org]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pounced_horrors/ Pounced.org Horrors] (Deleted August 2005)
* '''[[Sofawolf Press]]''': [http://sofawolf.livejournal.com/ The Sofawolf Press Journal]
*'''[[WikiFur]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/wikifur/ WikiFur]

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Lists|LiveJournal communities, List of furry]][[Category:LiveJournal communities| ]]

List of furry LiveJournal communities

2006-11-20T22:29:30Z

Astolpho: /* Furry art */

Below is a '''list of furry LiveJournal communities''', alphabetical by heading. As of August 2006, [[LiveJournal]]'s search by interest listed 405 communities [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=furry interested in "furry"]. This does not completely overlap with related interests, such as [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=anthropomorphics anthropomorphics] (205), [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=furs furs] (218), [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=fursuits fursuits] (132), [http://www.livejournal.com/interests.bml?int=yiff yiff] (138), ''et cetera''.

<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div>
==Art==
<nowiki>*</nowiki> marks communities are not exclusively furry.
=== [[Furry art]] ===
* [http://community.livejournal.com/were_art/ Anthro & Animal Artists]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/contestcentral/ A Place to Plug Your Art Contest] *
* [http://community.livejournal.com/charsheets/ Character Sheets R Us]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fantasywildlife/ Fantasy Wildlife]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furryartists/ Furry Artists]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furryicons/ Furry Icons]
* '''Adult Material''':
* [http://community.livejournal.com/anthro_guro/ Anthro EroGuro]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophile/ Dracophile]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophilia/ Dracophilia]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophiliac/ Dracophiliac]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/erotic_equine/ Erotic Equine]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fur_porn/ Fur Porn]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furotica/ Furotica]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_pinups/ Furry Pinups]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphonerotica/ Gryphon Erotica]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/yiffyness/ Yiffyness]
* '''Artist and Commissioner Discussion''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/ Artists Beware]*
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furarthorrors/ Fur Art Horrors] (by invitation only)
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artistrecommend/ Recommending Artists] *

=== [[Art exchange]]s ===

* '''General''':
** '''[[Fur Art Xchange]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furartxchange/ Furry Art Exchange] (closed)
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furartxchange2/ Fur Art Exchange 2]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furoticxchange/ Furotic Exchange]

* '''[[Species]]''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/avian_exchange/ Avian Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/caninexchange Canine Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/dragon_exchange/ Dragon Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/equinexchange/ Equine Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphon_xchange/ Gryphon Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/ggexchange/ Gryphon's Guild Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/hybridxchange/ Hybrid Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/lapinexchange/ Lapine Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/mlp_artxchange/ My Little Pony Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/mythicexchange2 Mythic Exchange 2]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/paleo_exchange/ Paleo Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/reptile_xchange/ Reptile Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/taur_xchange/ Taur Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wildcatxchange Wild Cat Exchange]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolfxchange/ Wolf Exchange]

* '''Various''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/100x100xchnge/ 100x100 Icon Exchange] *
** [http://community.livejournal.com/conbadges/ Conbadge Exchange] *

=== Art projects ===

* '''Playing cards'''
** '''[[The Bestiary (playing cards)|The Bestiary]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/bestiarycards/ Bestiary Cards]
** '''[[Kennel Club]]''': [http://thekennelclub.livejournal.com/ The Kennel Club]
* '''Cookbooks'''
** '''[[Recipe Portfolio]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/recipeportfolio/ Furry Cookbook Portfolio]
* '''Themed'''
** '''[[Serpentes]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/snakefolio/ Serpentes]

=== Art archives ===

*'''[[ArtVark]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artsnark/ Art Snark] (unofficial, complaints community)
** [http://community.livejournal.com/artvarkbootcamp/ Camp Artvark] (official community)

*'''[[Fur Affinity]]''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furaffinity/ Fur Affinity]

*'''[[VCL]]:'''
** '''[[VCL Horrors]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/vclhorrors/ The Horrors of VCL]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/vcl_admin_diary/ Musings of the VCL admins]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/vclpickoftheday/ VCL Pick of the Day]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/vcl_kink/ The Weird, Wild, & Wonderful of VCL]

*'''[[Yerf]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yerf/ Yerf]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yerf_hopefuls/ Yerf Hopefuls]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/anti_yerf/ The Yerf/Non-Yerf Mutual Agree to Disagree Society]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yerf_vent/ Yerf Vent]

==Conventions==
*'''[[Anthrocon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/anthrocon/ Anthrocon] (unofficial)
*'''[[C-ACE]] (Canadian Arts and Cartooning Expo):''' [http://community.livejournal.com/cace_discuss/ CACE] (unofficial)
*'''[[Califur]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/califur/ Califur]
*'''[[Feral!|Camp Feral!]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/feral_campers/ Feral_Campers] (unofficial)
*'''[[Cape May Fur Meet]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/capemayfurmeet CapeMayFurMeet]
*'''[[Eurofurence]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/eurofurence/ Eurofurence] (unofficial)
*'''[[FurFright]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furfright FurFright]
*'''[[Furry Cruise]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furrycruise/ FurryCruise]
*'''[[Furry Fiesta]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furryfiesta/ FurryFiesta]
*'''[[Furry Weekend Atlanta]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furryweekend FurryWeekend] (official)
*'''[[Further Confusion]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furcon/ FurCon]
*'''[[Megaplex]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/megaplex/ Megaplex] (official)
*'''[[Mephit Furmeet]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mfm/ MFM]
*'''[[Midwest FurFest]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/midwest_furfest/ Midwest_FurFest] (unofficial)
*'''[[Morphicon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ohiomorphicon/ OhioMorphicon] (unofficial)
*'''[[Oklacon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/Oklacon/ Oklacon]
*'''[[Rocket City Furmeet]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/rcfm/ RCFM]
*'''Operations''': [http://community.livejournal.com/furoperations/ Furry Convention Operations]

==Costuming and [[fursuit]]s==
* [http://community.livejournal.com/behindtheseams/ BehindTheSeams]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuit Fursuit]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuitauctions/ Fursuit Auctions]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuitlounge/ Fursuit Lounge]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fur_suits/ Fur Suits]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuits/ Fursuits]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/fursuitters/ Fursuitters]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/ilovetails/ I Love Tails]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/ukfursuit/ UK Fursuit]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/inside_the_suit/ Who's inside the suit?]

==Interests==

* '''General''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrtive/ furrtive (The Furry Community)]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/the_fur_pad/ The Fur Pad]
* '''[[Animal]] photographs''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/baaaaabyanimals/ Baaaaaby Animals]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/canine_photos/ Canine Photos]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/huskybreak/ Husky specific Photos]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wildphotos/ Wildphotos]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolfphotography/ Wolf Photography]
* '''[[Babyfur]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/babyfur/ Babyfur community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_daycare/ Furry Daycare]
* '''[[Baked Furs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/bakedfurs/ Baked Furs]
* '''[[Free paws|Bare paws]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/barepaws/ Furry, bare paw enthusiasts' Journal]
* '''Classical music''': [http://community.livejournal.com/classical_furs/ The Classical Music Furry Community]
* '''Cars:''' (see Motors below)
* '''Cooking:''' [[Furs that Cook]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/fursthatcook/ Furs That Cook]
* '''Cowboys & Western Lifestyle:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/cowboyfurs/ Cowboy Furs]
* '''[[DDR]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ddr_furs/ DDR Furs]
* '''Drinking:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/drinkingfurs/ Furs that drink]
* '''Education:'''
** '''College degrees''': [[Smart Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/smart_furs/ Smart Furs]
** [[Furries in University and College]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furs_in_uni/ Furries in University and College]
* '''Erotica:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furotica/ Furotica]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furryvore/ LJ Furry Vore Community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/yiff/ Yiff]
* '''Exercise:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryfitness/ Furry Fitness]
* '''[[Fat fur|Fatfur]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/fatfurs/ Fatfurs]
* '''[[Funday PawPet Show]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pawpet/ Funday PawPet Show]
* '''[[Furgonomics]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furgonomics/ Furgonomics Community]
*'''Gaming:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furgamers/ Fur Gamers]
** '''[[Wikipedia:World of Warcraft|World of Warcraft]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/fursofwow/ Furries of World of Warcraft]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/xboxlive_furs/ Furs of XBox Live]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Geocaching|Geocaching]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrycachers/ Geocaching furries]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Goth|Goth]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/gothic_furries/ Gothic_Furries]
* '''[[wikipedia:indie|Indie]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/indie_furs/ Indie Furs]
* '''[[Inflatophilia]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/inflationfurs/ InflationFurs]
* '''[[IRC]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/anthrochat/ Anthrochat]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Linux|Linux]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/linuxfurs/ Linux Furs]
* '''Meeting other furs:''' [[Furry Connect]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_connect/ Furry Connect]
* '''Modeling (photos):''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrealmodels/ Furs That Model]
* '''Motors:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/anth_road_track/ Anthroad & Track: The Furry Motorsports Community]
** [[Motor Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/motor_furs/ Motor Furs]
* '''[[:Category:Philosophy|Philosophy]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furjectivists/ Furry Objectivists]
* '''[[Nazi Furs]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/nazi_furs/ Nazi Furs]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Piracy|Pirates]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/pirate_furs/ Pirate Furries]
* '''[[plush toy|Plushie]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/plush_love/ Plush Love]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/plushtails/ Plush Tails]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/plush_workshop/ Plush Workshop]
* '''Pow wows''': [http://community.livejournal.com/pow_wow_furries/ Pow wow furries]
* '''[[:Category:Radio|Radio]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/radiofurs/ Radio Furs]
* '''Reading:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryreaders/ Furry Readers]
* '''[[Second Life]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/secondlife_furs/ Second Life Furry Community]
* '''[[Soviet Furs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/soviet_furs/ Soviet Furs (+DDR)]
* '''Spandex:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/slinkyfurs/ Slinky Furs]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/spandexfurs/ Spandex Furs]
* '''[[Tapestries]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/tapestries/ Tapestries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/golden_lash/ Tapestries' The Golden Lash]
* '''[[wikipedia:Tattoo|Tattoo]]ing:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrytattoos/ Furry (skin) Art]
* '''[[Therian]]s, furs and [[otherkin]] with issues:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mental_shifters/ Mental Shifters Community Journal]
* '''Weapons:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/gun_furry/ Furry Gun owners]
* '''[[Wikipedia:Microsoft Windows|Windows]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/windowsfurs/ Windows Furs]
* '''Writing:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrywriters/ Furry Writers]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furreviews/ Fur Reviews]

==Languages other than English==
*'''Interlingua:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/iala_furry/ IALA Furry]
*'''Russian:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ru_furry/ Русскоязычный портал Furry]

==Location==

===Africa===
*'''[[:Category:South Africa|South Africa]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/za_furs/ South African Furs] (Deleted (June 2006?))

===Asia===
====Regions====
*'''Asia:''' [[AnthroAsia]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/anthroasia/ AnthroAsia LJ community]

===Europe===
====Regions====
*'''Europe:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/eurofurs/ Eurofurs Community]

====Countries====
*'''[[:Category:Finland|Finland]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/finnfurs/ FinnFurs]
*'''[[:Category:Netherlands|The Netherlands]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/dutchfurs/ Dutch Furs]
*'''[[:Category:Norway|Norway]]:''' [[Norwegian Paws]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/norpaws/ Norpaws]
*'''[[:Category:Sweden|Sweden]]:'''
** [[Gothenburg Furry List]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/gotfur/ Gothenburg Furry List]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/swefur/ Swedish Furry Community's Journal]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/swedefurs Gathering Place for Swedish Furries]
*'''[[:Category:United Kingdom|United Kingdom]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryuk/ furryUK]

===North America===
====[[:Category:Canada|Canada]]====
=====Regions=====
*'''Canada:''' [[Canadian Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/canadianfurs/ Canadian Furs]

=====Provinces=====
*'''Alberta:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/albertafurs/ Alberta Furs]
**'''Calgary:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/calgaryfur/ Calgary Furs]
*'''[[:Category:British Columbia|British Columbia]]'''
**'''Vancouver:'''
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/vanfurs/ Vancouver Furs]
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/vfur_chat/ Vancouver Furs General Chat]
** '''Vancouver Island:''' '''[[Vancouver Island Furs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/vifur/ Vancouver Island Furs]
*'''Manitoba'''
**'''Southern Manitoba:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/smbfurs/ Southern Manitoba Furs]
*'''Ontario'''
**'''Kingston:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/k_town_furries/ K-Town Furries]
**'''Northern Ontario:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/onf/ Ontario Northland Furries]
**'''Ottawa:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ottfur/ Ottawa Furries]
**'''Toronto:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/toronto_furry/ toronto-furry]
*'''Québec'''
**'''Montreal:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/monfur/ Montreal Furries]

====United States====
=====Regions=====
*'''New England:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/newenglandfurs/ New England Furs]
*'''East Coast:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/eastcoastfurs East Coast Furs]
*'''Gulf Coast:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/gulfcoast_furs/ Furries in and Around the Gulf of Mexico]
*'''Midwest:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/midwestfurs Midwest/Heartland Furs]
*'''South:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/southrnfriedfur/ Southern Fried Furs]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/dirtysouth_furs/ Dirty South Furs]
*'''Southwest Lake Michigan (IN/IL/WI) - [[LAFF]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/lafflist Lake Area Furry Friends]
*'''Rockies:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mountain_furs High Mountain Furries]
*'''West Coast:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/westcoastfurs/ The Furs of the West Coast]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/pacificfurrs/ Pacific Furrs]

=====States=====
*'''[[:Category:Alabama|Alabama]]:'''
**'''[[AuburnFurs]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/auburnfurs/ Auburn (and East Alabama) Furries' Journal]

*'''[[:Category:Arkansas|Arkansas]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/cenarkfurs/ Central Arkansas Furs Association]

*'''[[:Category:California|California]]:'''
**'''Mid-California:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mid_cali_furs/ Mid-California Fur/Scalie/Anthro/Therian Community]
**'''Sacramento and Northern California:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/sacfurs/ Sacramento Furries]
**'''Northern California:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/norcalfurs/ Northern California Furs]
**'''San Francisco Bay:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/bafur/ San Francisco Bay Area Furries]
**'''Southern California:'''
*** [[SoCalFurs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/socalfurs/ Southern California Furs]
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/socalfurryteens/ Southern California Furry Teens]
**'''Fresno:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/valley_furs/ Central Valley Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Colorado|Colorado]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/colofurs/ Colorado Furries]

*'''[[:Category:Connecticut|Connecticut]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ctfurs/ Connecticut Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Florida|Florida]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/floridafurs/ Florida Furs]
**'''Jacksonville:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/jaxfurs/ Jax Furs]
**'''Orlando:''' [[Orlando Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/orlando_furs/ Orlando Furs]
** [[Palm Beach County Furries]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/palmbeachfurs/ Palm Beach County Furries]

*'''[[:Category:Georgia|Georgia]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/georgiafurs/ Georgia Furs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/atlanta_furs/ Atlanta Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Idaho|Idaho]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/idaho_furs/ Idaho furs, weres, fantasy lovers, etc.]

*'''[[:Category:Iowa|Iowa]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/sniff_furry/ Social Network for Iowa's Friendly Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Kansas|Kansas]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/kcfur/ Kansas City Fur Community]

*'''[[:Category:Kentucky|Kentucky]]:''' [[Bluegrass Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/bluegrass_furs/ Bluegrass Furs Community]

*'''[[:Category:Louisiana|Louisiana]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/louisianafurs/ Louisiana Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Maine|Maine]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mainefurs/ Maine Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Maryland|Maryland]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/md_furs/ md_furs]

*'''[[:Category:Michigan|Michigan]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/mifur/ mifur]

*'''[[:Category:Minnesota|Minnesota]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/sncfurs/ MN Furmeets]

*'''[[:Category:Missouri|Missouri]]:'''
**'''St Louis:''' [[Arch Regional Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/arf_baby/ ARF (Arch Regional Furs)]

*'''[[:Category:New Jersey|New Jersey]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/newjerseyfurs/ New Jersey Furs]

*'''[[:Category:New Mexico|New Mexico]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nmfurcentral/ New Mexico Furry Group]

*'''[[:Category:New York|New York]]:'''
**'''Buffalo (and West NY area)''': [http://community.livejournal.com/buffalofurs/ Buffalo Furs]
**'''Long Island:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/li_furs/ Long Island Furs]
**'''Plattsburgh:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/plattsburghfur/ Plattsburgh Furs Unite]
**'''Rochester:''' [[Area of Rochester Furs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/rochesterfurs/ Area of Rochester Furs (ARF)]

*'''[[:Category:North Carolina|North Carolina]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nc_furs/ NC Furs]
**'''Triad area:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nctriadfurs/ NC Triad Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Ohio|Ohio]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ohiofurs/ Ohio Furries]
**''NorthEast Ohio:'' [[NEOFurs]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/neofurs/ North East Ohio Furries (NEO Furs)]

*'''[[:Category:Oklahoma|Oklahoma]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/oklahoma_furs/ Oklahoma Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Oregon|Oregon]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/oregonfurs/ Oregon Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Pennsylvania|Pennsylvania]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pa_furry/ PA-Furry]
**'''Pittsburgh:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pittsfurghers/ pittsfurghers]

*'''[[:Category:Tennessee|Tennessee]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/tnfurs/ Tennessee Furs]
**'''[[Wikipedia:Chattanooga, Tennessee|Chattanooga]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/chatttownfurs/ Chatt-Town Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Texas|Texas]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texan_furries/ Texan Furry Community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texasareafurs/ Texas Area Furry Friends]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texas_furry/ Texas Furries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/texasfurs/ Texas Furs LJ Community]

*'''[[:Category:Virginia|Virginia]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furginia/ Furginia Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Washington|Washington]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/washingtonfurs/ Washington Furs]
**'''Puget Sound:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pugetsoundfurs/ Puget Sound Furries]
**'''Spokane:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/spokanefurs/ Spokane Furs]

*'''[[:Category:Wisconsin|Wisconsin]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/wi_furs/ Wisconsin Furries]
**'''Madison:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/madisonfurry/ Madison Furry]

===South America===
*'''[[:Category:Chile|Chile]]:''' [[Furry Chile]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furrychile/ Furry Chile LJ]

==Occupations and hobbies==
* [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_farmers/ Furry Farmers]
*'''Firefighting:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/firefighterfurs/ FireFighterFurs]
*'''Modelling:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrealmodels/ Modeling Furries]
*'''Music:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furry_composers/ Furry Composers]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrydjs/ Furry DJs]
* '''Truck drivers''':
** [http://community.livejournal.com/trucker_furs/ Trucker Furs]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/trucking_furs/ Trucking Furs]

==Opinions and politics==
*'''Being fur-curious:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pseudofur/ Pseudofurs]
*'''Being open-minded:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/openpaws/ OpenPaws]
*'''Conservatism:'''
**[[ConFURvatives]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/confurvatives/ ConFURvatives]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/rightiefurs/ Right-paw'd Furs]
*'''Liberalism:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/leftfurs/ Left-Wing Furries]
*'''Frustrated with furry fandom:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/frustrated_furs/ Frustrated Furs]
*'''Tired of furry fandom:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/jaded_furs/ Jaded Furries]
*'''Unification of furries:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/nationalist_fur/ Nationalist Furries]
*'''Rants on certain aspects of furry fandom:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryrants/ Furry Rants]

===Anti-Furries===
*[http://community.livejournal.com/antifurry/ The Anti-Furry Movement]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/wearecyd/ CYD Livejournal]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/deathtofurries/ Death to Furries]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furry_holocaust/ Discussion of the Furry/Otherkin Sickness]
*[[Furbid Horrors]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furbid_horrors/ Furbid Horrors]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/fur_furs/ Fur Furs]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furriesarescum/ Furries Are Scum's Journal]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furantifur/ Furries who Hate Furries]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/furrydrama/ Furry Drama Central]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/fursecution/ Fursecution]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/hatefurries/ I Hate Furries]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/laffdrama/ LAFF Drama]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/nlsa/ Nasty Little Shites Association]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/trichology/ Trichology: The Study of Furries (and Otherkin)'s Journal]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/vclhorrors/ VCL Horrors Redux]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/vcl_snark/ VCL Snark]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/wtf_fa/ WTF FA]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/wtf_vcl/ WTF VCL]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/we_hate_furries/ We Hate Furries]

== Religions and faiths ==
*'''[[Christian]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furrychristians/ Furry Christians]
*'''Jewish:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/jewishfurs/ Jewish Furs]
*'''Pagan:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/paganfur/ Pagan Furry Community]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furspirit/ Fur Spirit]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/soulshift/ Soulshift] (Deleted September 2006)

== Sexuality and relationships ==
* '''[[BDSM]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/bound_paw/ Bound Paw]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/bisexual_furs/ Bisexual Furs and Friends]
*'''[[Gay]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gayfurries/ Gayfurries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/furrybears/ Gay Bear Furries]
* '''Lesbian and bisexual female''': [http://community.livejournal.com/sapphic_kin/ Sapphic Kin]

* '''Relationship status''':
** '''Married''': [http://community.livejournal.com/marriedfurs/ Married Furs' Journal]
** '''Monogamy''': [http://community.livejournal.com/mono_furries/ Where Monogamous Furries Unite]
** '''[[Polyamory]]''': [[Poly furries]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/poly_furries/ Polyamorous Furries]
** '''Single''': [http://community.livejournal.com/singlefurs/ Singleton Furry Fans]

*'''Straight:''' [[Straight Fur]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/straightfur/ Straight Fur]
* '''[[Therian]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/theriansex/ Therian Sexuality]
* [http://community.livejournal.com/xenofetish/ Xenofetish]

==Species==
*'''[[Avian]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/featheries/ Featheries]

*'''[[Bat]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/battyfriends/ Bat Fursuits Unite]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/bats/ Bat Lovers Unite!]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/nightwings/ Night Wings]

*'''[[Canine]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/k9furs/ Canine Furries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wild_canines/ Wild Canines]

*'''[[Dragon]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/alfandria/ Alfandria]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/art_dragon/ Art Dragon]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/bad_dragon/ Bad Dragon]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/dracophilia/ Dracophilia]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/dragonnia/ Dragonnia]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/draconics/ Dragons on LiveJournal]

*'''[[Equine]]s:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/erotic_equine/ Erotic Equine]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/equine_furs/ LJ Stables]

*'''[[Feline]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/big_cat_anthros/ Big Cat Anthro Club @ LJ]
**'''[[Chakat]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/chakatheaven/ Chakat Heaven]
**'''[[Lion]]s:'''
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/lionessfurries/ Lioness furry club]
*** [http://community.livejournal.com/lion_furs/ Lion Furs]
**'''[[Tiger]]s''': [http://community.livejournal.com/tiger_furs/ Tiger Furs]

*'''[[Ferret]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/ferret_furs/ The Ferret Holt]

*'''[[Fox]]es:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/foxfurries/ Fox Furries]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/the_fox_kin/ The Fox Kin]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/kitsune_kin/ Kitsune-kin]

*'''[[Gryphon]]s:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/bad_gryphon/ Bad Gryphon]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphonerotica/ Gryphon Erotica]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/gryphonguild/ Gryphon Guild]

*'''[[Kangaroo]]s:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/kangaroos/ Kangaroos]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/roo_paradise/ A Kangaroo's Paradise]

*'''[[Meerkat]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/meerkats/ International House Of Meerkats]

*'''[[Raccoon]]s:'''
**[http://community.livejournal.com/erotic_raccoon/ Erotic Raccoon]
**[http://community.livejournal.com/raccoon_furs/ Furry Raccoons]

*'''[[Rodent]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/rodentfurs/ Rodent Furs Community]

*'''[[Skunk]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/skunkfurs/ Skunk Furs]

*'''[[Wolf|Wolves]]:'''
** [http://community.livejournal.com/true_werewolf/ True Werewolf]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_clan/ Wolf Clan]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_eyes/ Wolf Eyes]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolffoxnfolfy/ Wolf, Fox and Folfy]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_lovers/ Wolf Lovers]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/thewolfpack/ The Wolfpack]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolf_paws/ Wolf Paws]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolfspirits/ Wolf Spirits]
** [http://community.livejournal.com/wolvesmountain/ Wolves' Mountain]

==Traits==
*'''Disabled:''' [[Furs On Wheels]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furs_on_wheels/profile Furs on Wheels]
*'''[[Female]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryfems/ Furry Fems]
*'''[[Greymuzzle]] (over 30 years of age):''' [http://community.livejournal.com/greymuzzle/ Greymuzzles' Journal]
*'''[[Lifestyler]]s:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/lifestylers/ Anthropomorphic Lifestyles Community]
*[http://community.livejournal.com/musclefurs/ Muscle furries community]
*'''Parents:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryparents/ Furry Parents]
*'''Ravers:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/furryravers/ Furry Ravers]
*'''[[Transgender]]ed:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/transfurry/ Transfurry Community]
* '''Vegetarians:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/herbivores/ Furry Vegetarians LiveJournal (herbivores)]
*'''Victims of abuse:''' [[Wounded Paws]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/woundedpaws/ Wounded Paws]

==Websites==

*'''[[FurBid-SF]]''':
**[http://community.livejournal.com/furbid/ FurBid]
**[[Furbid Horrors]]: [http://community.livejournal.com/furbid_horrors/ FurBid horrors]
*'''[[Internet Furry Proximity Locator]]''': [http://community.livejournal.com/ifpl/ IFPL]
*'''[[pounced.org]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/pounced_horrors/ Pounced.org Horrors] (Deleted August 2005)
* '''[[Sofawolf Press]]''': [http://sofawolf.livejournal.com/ The Sofawolf Press Journal]
*'''[[WikiFur]]:''' [http://community.livejournal.com/wikifur/ WikiFur]

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Lists|LiveJournal communities, List of furry]][[Category:LiveJournal communities| ]]

Rootdown

2006-11-20T21:49:50Z

Astolpho: Correcting admin corrections.

[[Image:Hayguys2.jpg|350px|right|Clearly, rootdown is one jolly dude.]] '''rootdown''' is a dude. He enjoys watercolor painting, computer pictures, and not leading his sentences or his screen name with capital letters. He has been known to be very fond of [[lions]], and is sometimes prone to fits of obnoxiousness when riled. rootdown is one of the creators of [[COTI]], an internet community for chatting on the internet.

Most of rootdown's current involvement in the furry community takes place under another screen name.

He can often be found on the internet, which is where he currently resides.
== External links ==
{{Contributor|rootdown}}
* [http://www.stupidhappy.com/ Stupidhappy]
* [http://www.livejournal.com/users/rtdn/ Livejournal]
* [http://rootdown.deviantart.com/ deviantArt gallery]
* [http://rootdown.sheezyart.com/ Sheezy Art gallery]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Rootdown/ VCL gallery]
* [http://rootdown.1up.com/ 1up Profile]

[[Category:Artists]]
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:COTI-ites]]

User talk:Astolpho

2006-11-20T21:40:45Z

Astolpho: /* About recent edits */

Rootdown

2006-11-20T10:59:03Z

Astolpho: Revised and expanded for 2007!

[[Image:Hayguys2.jpg|350px|right|Clearly, rootdown is one jolly dude.]]
'''rootdown''' is a dude. He enjoys watercolor painting, computer pictures, and not leading his sentences or his screen name with capital letters. He has been known to be very fond of [[lions]], and is sometimes prone to fits of obnoxiousness when riled. rootdown is one of the creators of [[COTI]], an internet community for chatting on the internet.

Most of rootdown's current involvement in the furry community takes place under another screen name.

He can often be found on the internet, which is where he currently resides.

== External links ==
{{Contributor|rootdown}}
* [http://www.stupidhappy.com/ Stupidhappy]
* [http://www.livejournal.com/users/rtdn/ Livejournal]
* [http://rootdown.deviantart.com/ deviantArt gallery]
* [http://rootdown.sheezyart.com/ Sheezy Art gallery]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Rootdown/ VCL gallery]
* [http://rootdown.1up.com/ 1up Profile]

[[Category:Artists]]
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:COTI-ites]]

Talk:Gayfaggotinc

2006-01-16T01:39:36Z

Astolpho: /* Rephrased the "Relation" of the services. */ No, actually, they're not related, and the articles should reflect this.

Hey guys, how's it going? -Jack Bauer

For the last time, Gayfaggotinc isn't at all related to COTI or VCL Horrors, you morons. I'm changing this shit AGAIN and don't change it back.

(Oh, and Foxbourne isn't a member. We hate Foxbourne.)

Hey Spirou could you please quit fucking up our page? -Concerned Gayfaggot

Stay the fuck out of our page, Spiro Agnew. -Gayfaggot in Arms

Why was my membership entry removed? I'm definitely a part of this group... -Jack Bauer

Um, Jill is actually a member of GFI. She's in the channel right now. I'm talking to her. -Hung Wei Lo

http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=team_coti Check out the usernames of the people that belong to this community! You won't find a single GFI member in there. Is that proof enough that we're not related? Update: I've gone into the COTI chatroom itself and asked them about the whole thing. They've never even heard of us.

== Valid information welcome ==

Any additional, and relevant, information to this or any article on Wikifur is welcome. Although open to anybody, no article, except personal ones, are the sole property of one person or group. Thanks for your understanding. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:13, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Aotommo ==

I removed the "SALADTONGS YOUR MY BEST FRIEND :o)" LJ entry not because it is not true, or that community is in the same vein as Gayfaggotinc, or may have some of the members of the original one. The removal had to do more that it needs to relate to "Gayfaggotinc" in name more, has the other two are, because if it were based on the "reason" or "purpose" of "Gayfaggotinc" original LJ, we would be adding new LJs all day long. Hope this explains the removal. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:33, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Anonymous comment ==

HEY SPIROU

WE ACTUALLY ADDED PERTINENT INFORMATION THAT WAS TRUE ABOUT GFI

DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH BEFORE REVERTING BACK TO THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE!

How the hell do you expect wikifur to expand when you report everything as "vandalism"?

--[[User:66.122.238.114|66.122.238.114]] 03:52, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

== Rephrased the "Relation" of the services. ==

Clarified what relates all three to each other. Hope this helps. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:53, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

:Additional rephrasing has been added to bring up 66.122.238.114's point that all three services are not related to each other, except for the "Furry" angle. Please do inform us if this rewrite is satisfactory. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 05:06, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::''Gayfaggotinc (Joshua Woulf, creator. Kasai and Auddwaggin, co-founders) is the IRC counterpart to COTI's AIM and VCL Horrors' LiveJournal when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the furry fandom at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.)''
::Spirou, if you're going to acknowledge that there's no connection between these groups, why would you even bother to introduce the three of them and point out (your own percieved) similarities in the opening sentence of the article? That you, personally, mentally classify them all under the same "anti-furry" banner is fine, but it looks an awful lot to me like you're trying to make sure that other people who read this article make this association immediately. That's not NPOV, that's just spin. Wikifur readers are smart, they can draw their own conclusions about the subjects of the articles without anyone else telling them what or how to think. Let each article stand on its own. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 01:39, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Chat on the Internet

2006-01-16T01:28:00Z

Astolpho:

I'm curious to know what the reason for the revision was. I presented both opinions without bias. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 01:28, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Gayfaggotinc

2006-01-15T22:08:47Z

Astolpho: COTI has no relation to this group.

'''Gayfaggotinc''' ('''Joshua Woulf''', creator. '''Kasai''' and '''Auddwaggin''', co-founders) is the [[IRC]] counterpart to '''VCL Horrors'''' [[LiveJournal]] when it involves the purpose and/or behavior of mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the [[furry fandom]] at large (beyond this, they are independent entities.) Initially a LiveJournal community (Fall 2004 to July 2005), it was recreated on the Anthrochat [[IRC]] network after the LJ community was deleted by Joshua Woulf himself, and its presently under the loving care of the zombie grey [[dragon]], Auddwaggin.

Its composition, people wise, consists of a mix of [[furs]], [[nonfurs]] and [[anti-furries]], and they best describe themselves as thus:
''"For the most part, we are an awesome ANYTHING GOES community. Most of all(, we) just have fun, do stupid shit (the good kind) and remember that it's okay to be a gay faggot, but not a jerk. >:3 WE'RE AWFULLER THAN SOMETHING."''

Has of November 2005, several Livejournals have on taken the title of the new "incarnation" (or "version 2.0") of the LJ form of '''Gayfaggotinc''':
* [http://www.livejournal.com/community/gayfaggotincv2/ '''Gayfaggotincv2'''], created and maintained by [[Fairly Lush]] and [[JoshuaWoulf]].
* [http://www.livejournal.com/community/gayfaggotinc3/ '''Gayfaggotinc3'''], created and maintained by [[Ashi Moto]] and [[Wurby]].
* [http://www.livejournal.com/community/faygaggotinc/ '''Faygaggotinc'''], created and maintained by [[Fuzzy Ninja]], [[Michichu]] and [[Pixystick Ninja]].

==Past and Present Members==
{| width="100%"
|- valign="top"
||
*[[JoshuaWoulf]]
*[[Necco]]
*[[Verix]]
*[[Reddie]]
*[[Tiltwolfe]]
*[[User:Skunk|Skunk]]
*[[Elementseven]]
||
*[[Sibe]]
*[[Pico]]
*[[Corrosive]]
*[[Fairly Lush]]
*[[Jill0r]]
*[[Vitae]]
*[[noitaroproc]]
||
*[[Auddwaggin]]
*[[Ashi moto]]
*[[Bobby]]
*[[Raemuz]]
*[[Simba]]
*[[Mirage]]
*[[nothingkat]]
||
*[[Geemo]]
*[[Kasai]]
*[[Shanerak]]
*[[Flarn]]
*[[Aotommo]]
*[[Reagan Lodge]]
*[[N8]]
||
*[[Pence]]
*
*
*
*
*
*
|}

==See Also==
*[[VCL_Horrors]]
*[[Anthrochat]]

==External Links==
*[http://gogloom.com/Anthrochat/gayfaggotinc/ IRC stats for '''Gayfaggotinc''']

{{stub}}

[[Category:Anti-furries]][[Category:Chat rooms]]

Anti-furries

2006-01-15T22:06:19Z

Astolpho: -coti

'''Anti-furries''' are a group of individuals that find furry to be repulsive, especially any and all aspects having to do with furry sexuality. However, they tend to exhibit great interest in the sociology of the furry community.

In some cases, anti-furries may be previous members of the [[furry fandom]] who have become disgusted or disillusioned with furry. They may consider themselves ''anti-furry'' while still continuing to produce or consume media relating to [[anthropomorphic]]s, using [[fursona]]s or participating in [[conventions]] or [[MUCK]]s. Conversely, they may not only cease any interest or association with furry fandom, but actively deny any previous involvement.

Many online communities have a strong anti-furry slant, such as [[Something Awful]], [[Portal of Evil]], and the [[Encyclopædia Dramatica]], though possibly because they're searching for drama. [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] is an example of a site primarily catering to a general dislike of current furry fans and fandom.

'''Anti-furries''' are also commonly known as "[[mundane]]s", although this can also be used to refer to anyone who is not a member of the fandom.

==See also==

* [http://furry.wikicities.com/wiki/List_of_furry_LiveJournal_communities '''Anti-furries''' Livejournals (Section 7.1) ]
*[[ASCII]]
*[[AWFR]]
*[[Burned Furs]]
*[[Calumny]]
*[[C.H.A.F.E]]
*[[Christian Parents Against Furries]]
*[[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]]
*[[Eat All Furries]]
*[[Encyclopædia Dramatica]]
*[[FAASA]]
*[[Gayfaggotinc]]
*[[God Hates Furries]]

*[[PISOC]]
*[[Portal of Evil]]
*[[PVF]]
*[[SOF]]
*[[Something Awful]]
*[[TBOF]]
*[[The Antifur Collective]]
*[[VCL_Horrors]]

[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Ideological groups]]

Chat on the Internet

2006-01-15T22:04:47Z

Astolpho: words are hard :(

[[Image:COTI.gif|thumb|right|COTI Logo.]]
'''Chat on the Internet''' (also know as '''COTI''', or '''Team COTI''') is an [[Wikipedia:AOL Instant Messenger|AIM]] chat room, and more recently an online messageboard as well. Started by [[rootdown]] as an alternative to using [[MUCK]]s to communicate with his friends, COTI has gained a history of prankery and troublemaking, inspired in large part by the now-defunct [[Portal of Evil]] satellite community, Sex Sex World.

Some individuals consider COTI to be an [[Anti-furry]] site in the same vein as '''Gayfaggotinc''' or '''VCL_Horrors''', on account of a small group within it that sometimes indulge in mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the [[furry]] community at large. COTI proper has a wide variety of members, some of them historically hostile toward the furry community, but just as many are furries themselves, and according to its creator and administrator, rootdown, COTI is not an anti-furry community.

==External links==

*[http://www.team-coti.com/forum/ '''COTI''''s web forum]
*[http://cotipedia.wikispaces.com/ the COTIpedia]
*[http://www.livejournal.com/community/team_coti/ Team COTI's LiveJournal]

[[Category:Chat rooms]]

Chat on the Internet

2006-01-15T22:04:00Z

Astolpho: edited for accuracy

[[Image:COTI.gif|thumb|right|COTI Logo.]]
'''Chat on the Internet''' (also know as '''COTI''', or '''Team COTI''') is an [[Wikipedia:AOL Instant Messenger|AIM]] chat room, and more recently an online messageboard as well. Started by [[rootdown]] as an alternative to using [[MUCK]]s to communicate with his friends, COTI has gained a history of prankery and troublemaking, inspired in large part by the now-defunct [[Portal of Evil]] satellite community, Sex Sex World.

Some individuals consider COTI to be an [[Anti-furry]] site in the same vein as '''Gayfaggotinc''' or '''VCL_Horrors''', on account of a small group within it that sometimes indulge in mocking, ridiculing, or trolling the [[furry]] community at large. COTI proper has a wide variety of members, some of them historically hostile toward the furry community, but just as many are furries themselves, and according to its creator and administrator, rootdown, is not an anti-furry site.

==External links==

*[http://www.team-coti.com/forum/ '''COTI''''s web forum]
*[http://cotipedia.wikispaces.com/ the COTIpedia]
*[http://www.livejournal.com/community/team_coti/ Team COTI's LiveJournal]

[[Category:Chat rooms]]

Ilthuain

2006-01-15T21:56:57Z

Astolpho: Not COTI.

[[Image:turbilth.jpg|[[Turbine Divinity]] and Ilthuain all dressed up.|thumb]]
Born in 1976, '''Ilthuain''' remains a fairly obscure character lurking on the periphery of [[furry fandom]]. Following a brief flirtation with geopolitics, Ilthuain discovered the fandom while recovering from rubella and surfing usenet in the autumn of 1994.

He has been known, on occasion, to attack individuals or ideas that do not meet his pleasure on forums or live-chat, but not more so than any other raconteur or malcontent found online. He has been known to troll, counter-troll and otherwise disrupt [[alt.fan.furry]] and the now defunct [[EAF]].

Other than an unfinished independent computer game project that might or might not include [[furry]] [[character]]s, Ilthuain is mostly known for his frequent and dubious claims of being the Top Beer Drinker In The Fandom. Those who have met him in person at conventions have noted his penchant for overindulging in gourmet ales (though his assertion is largely unfounded) and getting totally wasted (this assertion being largely based in truth).

== External links ==

* [http://www.gamesforinsects.com Games For Insects website]
* [http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=ilthuain Ilthuain's Livejournal]

[[Category:People]][[Category:1976 births]]

Category talk:COTI-ites

2006-01-15T21:53:45Z

Astolpho: /* COTI-ites or COTI-ietes ? */

Is this an appropriate category to have? To me, it will be a personal attack on the subject of any article that does belong here, and be an open invitation for all of COTI to create their own page. Then again, GreenReaper probably would support the latter... nn; [[User:Almafeta|Almafeta]] 12:19, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== COTI-ites or COTI-ietes ? ==

WikiFur currently has two categories (1) COTI-ites (lists 5 names) and (2) COTI-ietes (is blank). I assume the second is a typo of the first. Any objections to me changing "COTI-ietes" to "COTI-ites"?

:Hmm - there doesn't seem to exist a category named 'COTI-ietes', though - I can't find it in the [[Special:Categories|full category list]] at any rate. --[[User:MKerris|MKerris]] 21:48, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

::Ahh, never mind that - I see that you was speaking of merely a ''link'' to the 'COTI-ietes' category. Thanks for spotting/correcting it. :) --[[User:MKerris|MKerris]] 22:04, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I like ''cotards'', myself. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 21:53, 15 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Furry art

2005-09-05T17:02:49Z

Astolpho: /* Origins in other genres */ pointed history link at history article

'''Furry art''' or '''anthro art''' (a misnomer, as [[anthro]] means "[[human]]") is a phrase sometimes used to describe artwork depicting [[anthropomorphic]] animal characters. Usually furry art is created with [[furry fandom]] as the main audience, though some works that could be described as "furry art" are intended for a larger, more mainstream audience.

A person who creates furry art is called a ''[[furry artist]]''.

== Defining Traits ==

The most basic and pervasive idiom of furry art is the depiction of [[humanoid]] figures with animal traits: heads, tails, ears, fur, and so on. This isn't always the case: furry artwork can include completely non-humanoid animals whose only anthropomorphic traits might be their facial expressions, dialogue, range of emotions acted out, to the completely opposite end of the spectrum in completely human characters with animal ears and tails attatched to them, as is popular in [[anime]] fanart. Another popular theme in furry art is in the [[transformation]] of people to animals and vice versa, as in [[werewolves]] or other mythical creatures, or in [[science fiction]] devices, such as the use of [[genetic engineering]].

=== Origins in other genres ===

The most commonly accepted theory as to the origination of furry art is that it has its roots in the indie [[Wikipedia:Comics|comics]] and science fiction/fantasy fan culture of the 1980s.

Due to heavy censorship of the comic book industry by the Comics Code Authority in the 1960s and 70s, there was a huge boom in underground comics, and it was during this time that Robert Crumb began creating the seminal [[Wikipedia:Fritz_The_Cat|Fritz the Cat]] comics, a sexually graphic story about a cartoon cat, which would later be made into a film by maverick [[Wikipedia:Animation|animation]] director [[Wikipedia:Ralph_Bakshi|Ralph Bakshi]]. Fritz the Cat came at a time when animation was universally considered to be a children's medium, and perhaps because of this and its aggressive countercultural bent, it met with little critical approval and to this day remains an obscure film outside of animation enthusiast circles.

The underground comics culture gave rise to a wave of independent black and white comics in the 1980s. It was during this time that many of the first [[proto_Furry]] comics and [[APA]]zines began to appear. [[Steve Galacci]]'s [[Albedo]], Eastman and Laird's [[Wikipedia:Teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles|Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles]], [[Stan Sakai]]'s [[Usagi Yojimbo]], and [[Reed Waller]]'s [[Wikipedia:Omaha_the_Cat_Dancer|Omaha the Cat Dancer]] were among them, many of them now considered to be cornerstones of what was still becoming the furry fandom.

Many of the most prominent furry artists of the 1990s, such as [[Terrie Smith]], [[Daphne Lage]], and [[Tygger Graf]], and even contemporary fan favorite [[Marci McAdam]] all point to Wendy and Richard Pini's popular [[Elfquest]] series of fantasy comics as a major source of stylistic influence. Though Elfquest doesn't feature what would normally be considered furry characters, it shares, and is possibly responsible for introducing many ideas popular in furry art and fiction: protagonists who are close to nature and are able to communicate with animals (some of them actually possess [[wolf]] blood), an enormous emphasis on empathy and sentimentality, names such as "Petalwing," "Clearbrook," or "Moonshade" that combine two nature- or color-oriented words into one, the use of human beings as antagonistic characters, and a predilection for mystical, nativist imagery.

Even today, popular fantasy fiction and children's cartoons continue to influence trends in furry art. Witness the enormous popularity of [[Brian Jaques]]' [[Redwall]] series of novels, [[Disney]]'s 1994 blockbuster feature [[The Lion King]], Rare Software's [[Star Fox]] series of videogames, or Rumiko Takahashi's cartoon [[Inuyasha]] among today's furry fan artists.

For more information on this subject, you may be interested in reading more about [[History|furry fandom's history]].

''See also:'' [http://yarf.furry.com/chronology.html A Chronology of Furry Fandom by Fred Patten]

=== Yeah, but is it Furry? ===

The definition of what should and should not be considered furry is a subject of ongoing controversy. Some individuals favor a definition that includes any and all media that relates to the anthropomorphism of animals, stretching from prehistoric cave paintings to representations of Egyptian gods, to contemporary Warner-Brothers cartoons, to the most lewd and graphic images that can be found on the [[VCL]] can and should all be classified as furry art. Others favor a more exclusive definition, arguing that only those images and media created by individuals who operate within the social boundaries of the furry fandom and whose output is distributed primarily inside of the fandom's channels should be considered to be furry art; and while extracurricular media might be enjoyed by furry fans, it is not furry in and of itself.

The major criticisms of the inclusive definition of furry art are that it is an attempt to justify and elevate fan-oriented output to be equivalent to what is created outside of the fandom (this opinion is predicated of course on the belief that furry art does not qualify for the same level of distinction), and that it trivializes the historical artwork and more mainstream media by the association. Opponents of the exclusive definition argue that it is only used by aggressors and [[troll]]s to diminish and confine furry artwork that might be appropriate for a larger audience and that nobody can know for certain what audience an artist intended his creations for.

Many artists who have been known to attend furry conventions, roleplay as anthropomorphic animals, and represent themselves as such in art are uncomfortable with the "furry" label for various reasons. Instead they prefer to classify their artwork as '[[anthro]],' '[[were]],' or any number of other terms that all mean roughly the same thing but lack whatever negative connotations or baggage they feel might be attatched to furry art that they were trying to avoid.

It should also be noted that there there is a significant portion of people who feel that the distinction is not that important, and that to engage in the argument is a waste of time that might be better spent creating, enjoying, or making fun of the art in question.

== Where to find Furry Art ==

A more appropriate question to ask might be where ''can't'' you find furry art. A Google image search for nearly any kind of animal will usually yield furry art featuring that animal within the first page or two. However, the enterprising fan might have more success finding furry art at any one of the many galleries dedicated to hosting it:

* The [[VCL]]
* [[Yerf]]
* The [[Orlando Furry Archives]]
* [[YNA]] [http://yna.solfire.com/]

Additionally, many general-purpose or cross-genre public gallery sites host furry artwork and most of them feature specific categories for it:

* [[SheezyArt]]
* [[deviantArt]]
* [[GFXartist]] [http://www.gfxartist.com/]
* [[Art Wanted]] [http://www.artwanted.com/]
* [[Epilogue]] [http://www.epilogue.net/index.html]
* [[Elfwood]] [http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/elfwood.pike]

Furthermore, there are a wealth of livejournal communities dedicated to the creation, discussion, and exchange of furry art. You might find a few examples of those on the [[List_of_furry_LiveJournal_communities|list of furry livejournal communities]].

It is a common practice for artists to create their own individual galleries, hosted on personal website portfolios. If you discover an artist with a style you enjoy, you might follow links around or google their name in order to find their home page and bookmark it. Many artists also appreciate positive feedback from their fans - don't be shy about sending them email to let them know how you feel about their artwork!

== Creating Furry Art ==

One of the trademarks of the furry art community is its inclusivity. Anybody who wants to put a pencil to paper and draw animal people is welcome to do so and can quickly find a place in the furry art scene should they have a mind to, and many of the galleries listed above have no content restrictions, thus making them ideal for beginners to share their work.

If you are unsure of how to begin creating furry art, here is a simple step-by-step how-to:

# Get a pen or pencil and a sheet of paper. Any kind will do.
# Draw whatever it is you have in your head!
# Lather, rinse, repeat.

That's it! That's all there is to it. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, and don't be afraid of what other people might say about your artwork. Just draw, all the time. The best avenue of improvement for the any artist at any skill level is to practice, ''constantly''. Anybody can draw, and the people that are exceptionally skilled artists are so because they are drawing nonstop. Patience and diligence are all it takes!

=== Online resources and tutorials ===

There is a wealth of information useful to artists of all skill levels available at no cost on the internet, a great deal of which is specifically topical to furry art:

* [http://www.fignations.com/jelisa/tutorials/fur_and_hair.html Fur, hair, and clothing tutorials]
* [http://div.dyndns.org/EK/tutorial/ Katherine Dinger's photoshop tutorials and digital painting walkthroughs]
* [http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=2503& Eric Tranchefeux's Hyperrealistic Cat Project]
* [http://www.deviantart.com/view/17124835/ Jen's Fur Tutorial]

Additionally, drawing resources of a more general nature will help the artist expand his or her skills and visual repertoire:

* [http://www.saveloomis.org/ Art Instruction books of Andrew Loomis] - PDF copies of all of Andrew Loomis' books on illustration
* [http://www.good-tutorials.com/ Good-Tutorials.com] - Thousands of Adobe Photoshop tutorials, of varying usefulness
* [http://www.pslover.com/ Photoshop Lover] - Tutorials and resources

Art technique and discussion boards for useful critical feedback:

* [http://www.wetcanvas.com/ Wetcanvas]
* [http://www.conceptart.org Conceptart.org]
* [http://www.eatpoo.com/phpBB2/index.php Eatpoo Digital Art Forums] - Not for the thin-skinned!

=== Books for Additional Reading ===

==== Drawing animals ====

* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399508023/qid=1125187804/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 How to Draw Animals], Jack Hamm
* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1581801319/qid=1125188100/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Painting Animals that Touch the Heart], by Lesley Harrison
* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486274268/qid=1125187804/sr=8-8/ref=pd_bbs_8/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 The Art of Animal Drawing: Construction, Action Analysis, Caricature], by Ken Hultgren

==== Figure drawing ====

* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131830481/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance Figure Drawing: The Structural Anatomy and Expressive Design of the Human Form] by Nathan Goldstein
* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823014010/qid=1125185896/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters] and [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823002810/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846&st=* Anatomy Lessons from the Great Masters] by Robert Beverly Hale
* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/078948045X/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance Anatomy for the Artist] by Sarah Simblett

==== General drawing technique ====

* [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874774241/qid=1125188171/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain], by Betty Edwards

''For related information, see also:'' [[Furry Artist]].

[[Category:Arts and Crafts]]

User talk:Redcard

2005-08-31T18:34:31Z

Astolpho: /* Rootdown vs Jellochuu */

Welcome to my talk page. All posts on this page must be signed or they will be removed and unanswered. If you wish to comment on a specific edit or article, please put the comment under the proper segment. If the proper segment doesn't exist, make it.

== Babyfurs ==

Hey, I don't think it's really my place to back anyone up in particular. Wikis are complex things, and it may take some time to get to an agreeable whole. I do feel the issues with the perceptions relating to babyfurs and pedophilia are a valid inclusion. I don't think, at the moment, anything in that section is written too strongly to a POV. Of further note, one of the reasons I original included a mention of pedophilia (yes, it got explainded, but I was the original person to make a mention of the difference between pedophilia and babyplay) was due to the inclusion of it in the Wikipedia article on Infantalism. I fully encourage you to edit, but please do not delete passages unless there has been a long discussion in the talk page that comes to the conclusion that we should, especially in a case where so many misunderstandings about babyfurs exist. -- [[User:MelSkunk|MelSkunk]] 18:53, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:My main contention against it was that it was not contrasting like the subject below it. It was listed with an "AND", which to me, when contrasted with the vs below, indicated an unwillingness to place general babyfur in a position against it. Now that rama corrected that, I'm fine with things as they stand. Wiki is about compromise. I can accept the contrast.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 19:00, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Please look before reverting ==

I'm not getting involved in the discussion of the content of the article, but I do ask this: please be sure to check the diffs before reverting any edits. You and Jellochu have been going back and forth over the spelling of "versus" for no good reason. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:03, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:We do need an admin in there though to determine the NPOVness. And no, that's not the only thing. He also stated that furs support pedophilia, and that it's not bad. He just marked it as minor. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:06, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::I mark all my edits as minor. I have no idea where you're getting this; I didn't '''add''' ''anything'', I deleted a false sentence. I didn't say pedophilia wasn't bad and I didn't say furs support pedophilia, I just removed a line that inaccurately stated that '''all''' furries dispise pedophilia. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:14, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::You also added something in parenthesis. Here's the context of the change with your addition in bold. Please don't lie. The history captures all.:
''However, as with the general population, a very small subset of babyfurs may also be pedophiles. While there have been legal incidents in the past with some furries involved with child molestion '''(which is not pedophilia anyway)''', they have not been specifically identified as babyfurs.
''
[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:18, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::Okay, I added that, but that's none of what you claimed I added. Plus, I was merely pointing out that child molestion =/= pedophilia. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:19, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
== Rootdown vs Jellochuu ==
:::::I am staring at my monitor in open-mouthed amazement. <nowiki>:o</nowiki> --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:21, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::::Indeed, it's always a shock to learn some people have different opinions than yourself =/ {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:22, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::::: It's not the fact that the opinions are different, it's the degree of difference that is amazing. I mean: ''I was merely pointing out that child molestion =/= pedophilia.'' Tell me, what color is the sky in your world? --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:24, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::::::White, currently. It's very cloudy.
::::::::Pedophilia is the paraphilia of being primarily sexually attracted to children; it is not an act. Child molestion is the act of raping a child. There is a difference. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:27, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::::::::''[[http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pedophilia ped·o·phil·i·a]] Pronunciation Key (pd-fl-, pd-) n.''
:::::::::''The '''act''' or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.''
:::::::::so yeah QED, basically --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:34, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Redcard

2005-08-31T18:24:58Z

Astolpho: /* Please look before reverting */

Welcome to my talk page. All posts on this page must be signed or they will be removed and unanswered. If you wish to comment on a specific edit or article, please put the comment under the proper segment. If the proper segment doesn't exist, make it.

== Babyfurs ==

Hey, I don't think it's really my place to back anyone up in particular. Wikis are complex things, and it may take some time to get to an agreeable whole. I do feel the issues with the perceptions relating to babyfurs and pedophilia are a valid inclusion. I don't think, at the moment, anything in that section is written too strongly to a POV. Of further note, one of the reasons I original included a mention of pedophilia (yes, it got explainded, but I was the original person to make a mention of the difference between pedophilia and babyplay) was due to the inclusion of it in the Wikipedia article on Infantalism. I fully encourage you to edit, but please do not delete passages unless there has been a long discussion in the talk page that comes to the conclusion that we should, especially in a case where so many misunderstandings about babyfurs exist. -- [[User:MelSkunk|MelSkunk]] 18:53, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:My main contention against it was that it was not contrasting like the subject below it. It was listed with an "AND", which to me, when contrasted with the vs below, indicated an unwillingness to place general babyfur in a position against it. Now that rama corrected that, I'm fine with things as they stand. Wiki is about compromise. I can accept the contrast.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 19:00, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Please look before reverting ==

I'm not getting involved in the discussion of the content of the article, but I do ask this: please be sure to check the diffs before reverting any edits. You and Jellochu have been going back and forth over the spelling of "versus" for no good reason. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:03, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:We do need an admin in there though to determine the NPOVness. And no, that's not the only thing. He also stated that furs support pedophilia, and that it's not bad. He just marked it as minor. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:06, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::I mark all my edits as minor. I have no idea where you're getting this; I didn't '''add''' ''anything'', I deleted a false sentence. I didn't say pedophilia wasn't bad and I didn't say furs support pedophilia, I just removed a line that inaccurately stated that '''all''' furries dispise pedophilia. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:14, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::You also added something in parenthesis. Here's the context of the change with your addition in bold. Please don't lie. The history captures all.:
''However, as with the general population, a very small subset of babyfurs may also be pedophiles. While there have been legal incidents in the past with some furries involved with child molestion '''(which is not pedophilia anyway)''', they have not been specifically identified as babyfurs.
''
[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:18, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::Okay, I added that, but that's none of what you claimed I added. Plus, I was merely pointing out that child molestion =/= pedophilia. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:19, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::I am staring at my monitor in open-mouthed amazement. <nowiki>:o</nowiki> --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:21, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::::Indeed, it's always a shock to learn some people have different opinions than yourself =/ {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:22, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::::: It's not the fact that the opinions are different, it's the degree of difference that is amazing. I mean: ''I was merely pointing out that child molestion =/= pedophilia.'' Tell me, what color is the sky in your world? --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:24, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Redcard

2005-08-31T18:21:11Z

Astolpho:

Welcome to my talk page. All posts on this page must be signed or they will be removed and unanswered. If you wish to comment on a specific edit or article, please put the comment under the proper segment. If the proper segment doesn't exist, make it.

== Babyfurs ==

Hey, I don't think it's really my place to back anyone up in particular. Wikis are complex things, and it may take some time to get to an agreeable whole. I do feel the issues with the perceptions relating to babyfurs and pedophilia are a valid inclusion. I don't think, at the moment, anything in that section is written too strongly to a POV. Of further note, one of the reasons I original included a mention of pedophilia (yes, it got explainded, but I was the original person to make a mention of the difference between pedophilia and babyplay) was due to the inclusion of it in the Wikipedia article on Infantalism. I fully encourage you to edit, but please do not delete passages unless there has been a long discussion in the talk page that comes to the conclusion that we should, especially in a case where so many misunderstandings about babyfurs exist. -- [[User:MelSkunk|MelSkunk]] 18:53, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:My main contention against it was that it was not contrasting like the subject below it. It was listed with an "AND", which to me, when contrasted with the vs below, indicated an unwillingness to place general babyfur in a position against it. Now that rama corrected that, I'm fine with things as they stand. Wiki is about compromise. I can accept the contrast.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 19:00, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Please look before reverting ==

I'm not getting involved in the discussion of the content of the article, but I do ask this: please be sure to check the diffs before reverting any edits. You and Jellochu have been going back and forth over the spelling of "versus" for no good reason. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:03, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:We do need an admin in there though to determine the NPOVness. And no, that's not the only thing. He also stated that furs support pedophilia, and that it's not bad. He just marked it as minor. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:06, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::I mark all my edits as minor. I have no idea where you're getting this; I didn't '''add''' ''anything'', I deleted a false sentence. I didn't say pedophilia wasn't bad and I didn't say furs support pedophilia, I just removed a line that inaccurately stated that '''all''' furries dispise pedophilia. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:14, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::You also added something in parenthesis. Here's the context of the change with your addition in bold. Please don't lie. The history captures all.:
''However, as with the general population, a very small subset of babyfurs may also be pedophiles. While there have been legal incidents in the past with some furries involved with child molestion '''(which is not pedophilia anyway)''', they have not been specifically identified as babyfurs.
''
[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:18, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::Okay, I added that, but that's none of what you claimed I added. Plus, I was merely pointing out that child molestion =/= pedophilia. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:19, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::I am staring at my monitor in open-mouthed amazement. <nowiki>:o</nowiki> --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:21, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Babyfur

2005-08-31T18:15:12Z

Astolpho: /* Babyfur and Pedophilia */

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Page 2|Page 2]]
</div>
'''I've split this talk page as its displaying the length warning. If you can't find a conversation you were taking part in, please see page two.'''

== NPOV Alledged ==

Since NPOV is a case by case basis, and Crassus believes that article VII is not NPOV.. I'm going to mark the article NPOV. If an admin sees this and decides that the article should not be marked, please remove it. Thanks. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 12:23, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Again, I ask that the admin please look over the tone and neutrality of the babyfur vs pedophilia section. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:13, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

==Babyfur and Pedophilia==

Is this section really necessary? Stating that we are against something that is patently illegal should be a no brainer. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:19, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:I think it is, because I know a lot of Babyfurs who are tired of the bad rep they've gotten from close-minded people who can't get their understanding of terminologies correct. Most babyfurs that I know are very open-minded and understanding of others. They're just tired of all the crap they've received from hateful, ignorant people. It really reflects on the state of the fandom as a whole. I think most furs can agree that we're all tired of getting a bad rep in mainstream society. Subsections within the fandom are also tired of suffering the same intolerant treatment from other furs. My only beef is that I think the article needs to be clear up a couple legal definition issues.

:--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:23, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::And I disagree. I don't believe that we need to be throwing the "we're not pedophiles" argument down in front of people. Nor do I believe that pedosexuality has any place in the core definition of babyfur. I'm not saying we have to take the sexuality out of babyfur, but we should not be in the business of running around proactively telling everyone that we are not pedophiles. This is supposed to be an encyclopedic reference type article, not a sounding board for pro-pedosexuality or anti-pedosexuality. It really doesn't need to be in this article. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:26, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::I DO agree with you strongly on that last notion. We shouldn't be dealing with having to be pro or anti ANYthing. That's what my whole beef is with the section of the article. The tenor floats about in a defensive posture. It should be neutral. It should simply say what it is, and clear up confusion as to what it's not. It shouldn't look or feel slanted. Slants can be left to HHGttG, not the Intergalactic Encyclopedia, as the repository for all knowledge and wisedom of the universe, so to speak. :)

::: But also, think of this: We can't even say the word "pedophile" without some people automatically attaching it to (im)moral conduct. Therefore, is it not up to the individual reader to be left to their own understanding on an issue to ultimately be non-biased? Very tough to do. Though, I think it needs to be done. All I'm saying is, reword the thing. I'd do it myself, but I doubt I have teh skills. :)

:::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:35, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: Redcard, the article is not "proactively" mentioning anything about pedophilia. Rather it is '''reactively''' mentioning it, because there already exists the mistaken notion that babyfurs are somehow involved with pedophilia. I believe that it is important to dispel that myth, and that the best way to do it is by mentioning that it is in fact, untrue. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 18:58, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::: dmuth, Understood. The problem I had is that it seemed to couple babyfur with pedo by using the conjunction and on top of the contrasting vs below. This would give the cursory glancer the wrong impression and was not in like form to the remainder of the article. Changing it to vs clarifies the contrasting elements within it.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 19:03, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)
: Yes, this part of the article is necessary was included because it's a precieved issue with the general fandom. Like it or not, babyfurs that do engage in sexual ageplay are often labeled as such. This section tries to draw the line between what is done in roleplay and what is done in real life (and what is illegal). -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 18:42, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

"...is patently illegal should..." Pedophilia is not illegal. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:27, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:: Please make your revisions here and not on the main article, especially when a consensus has not been reached. Further, for revisions that change the context of an entire section of an article, you need to properly mark the edit as a major edit. Do not try to sneak major context changing edits in as minor edits. Thanks [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:48, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:: Jello, I know you are wanting to remove the broad generalization. We , however, have reached a consensus at having a condemnation of pedophilia in this article. An acceptable compromise might be to remove the broad generalization of "all " and replace it with "most." But you are not going to remove the entire condemnation because you don't like its whole message.[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 17:56, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: Why is that even sentence there? It can't be true. The furry fandom doesn't have a spokesman and it's made up of different people with different opinions who have different ideas of what should be "accepted" or "condoned". The sentence claims that the entire (overall) furry fandom dislikes pedophilia. Where are you getting this? This is the opinion of whoever wrote that section, ''not'' the furry fandom. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:58, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::: Why do you have to condemn pedophilia in the article? I'm not a furry, but I would have thought the fandom would be a bit more open-minded...
::: What statistics have you used to deduce that 'most' of the furry fandom dislikes pedophilia? Do you have a cite? {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 17:58, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::: So you are not a fur, and by nature, are not a babyfur. Look, we are babyfurs. We are the ones who have written this article. We will maintain the line as it is in many of our operating statements and codes of conduct. This article was written by consensus. It will NOT be changed by a single person, who is not even represented by the article, deciding that they don't like what it says. I'd rather all references to pedophilia be out entirely, but the consensus did not work that way. Work within the system, please. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 18:03, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)
::::: It doesn't matter if I'm not furry, and it doesn't matter if I'm not babyfur. These are immaterial. I've seen enough of the world to know that not everyone thinks the same about things, and I highly doubt furries are any different. So the concensus said to write it like that? That's like people writing history by a vote, to reflect whatever makes them look good; even if this isn't Wikipedia, WikiFur is intended record factual information. Concensus shouldn't determine fact. {{User:Jellochuu/s}} 18:11, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::: WHOA

:::: whoa whoa whoa whoa.

:::: ''Why do you have to condemn pedophilia in the article? I'm not a furry, but I would have thought the fandom would be a bit more open-minded...''

:::: If you're stepping in to provide a defense of the sexual exploitation of children in the name of inclusivity and tolerance, you've ''already'' lost the argument, no rebuttal necessary. End of story. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 18:15, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

==Sex and Babyfurs==
Okay, we've had a lot of furor over this right now. Let me sum how I see that section of the article right now:
*People mistake babyfur activities as being pedophilia. This is not the same thing. I feel the new title edit makes that clear.
*Some babyfurs are interested in sex in babyfur persona, some are not. Of those, some age-play with adults, some age-play with other babyfurs.
*We can't totally say that no babyfur ever is a pedophile, because we just don't know. No one identified as a BF has ever been involved in legal action regarding sexual conduct with a minor.

I think at this point, we may need a seperate article on Age-play and how it relates to the fandom.

[[User:MelSkunk|MelSkunk]] 19:16, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:I don't. I think we should simply link to Wikipedia's already very detailed entry on the matter. Ageplay is not a "furry" topic. It has links in that it is a sexual kink, but it in no way deals with "furryness".

:--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:26, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, but once again I'm going to have to disagree on something that was recently added:

"Many babfurs do not include a sexual element to their interests."

First off, there's a typo for "babyfurs". Secondly, just because there is not a sex act being performed in the scene does not mean they aren't receiving sexual gratification from the scene. Many a time, when someone pulls off one of those diapers, you're bound to see evidence that the person's being stimulated mentally. The above statement is phrased in a way that lends to the notion that there is no sexual element involved at all, which is definately not the case. The same goes for pedophilia in many cases. Merely seeing kids playing or acting "boyish/girlish" is enough to be stimulating. (Again, not passing judgement in either AB or BL/GL issues. Simply stating the facts.)

--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:42, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: I know quite a few that do not include sexual play in with their babyfur play. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 19:50, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::I just said that. Just because there's no actual sexual '''play''' does '''not''' mean there isn't a '''sexual element''' or gratification from the '''non-sexual''' act.

::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::: For some, I'm sure it's just like you are trying to explain, while there is no direct stimuli, there's is mental stimuli. However, realise that being a babyfur and wearing a diaper or doing anything else connected with babyfurs in real lif is not the same thing. There are babyfurs out there that they like roleplaying young characters but would not do anything outside of that roleplay. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 19:58, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::That doesn't mean there isn't a sexual element, though. Sexuality revolves around a much more expansive circle than direct stimulation. Sometimes the very feeling of comfort derived from non-sexual activity can result in stimulation, or at least be conducive toward feeling more sexually inclined and "in-tune" so to speak. I'll give you an example. Suppose someone can't "get it up" unless they're wearing a Marylin Monroe wig. The moment they put that wig on, even if it has nothing to do with sex directly, provides an element which enables them to feel sexually enabled. Diapers and such are a paraphernalia to that degree. Granted, that doesn't include everyone. Nothing is 100%, but I bet you it's the majority of them.

::::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 19:52, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::Passing observation on this discussion - it would seem to be getting a little bit into the abstraction of just what constitutes sexuality, sexual stimulation, feedback, mental states, etc. Which isn't a bad topic or anything. In point of fact, I think more people need education on it, and there are a lot of primitive / simplistic viewpoints floating around, IMHO. One reason why things like furry sexuality in general may be misunderstood or shocking to outsiders at first glance. However, I do wonder how well the abstractions help the issue of trying to describe the issues surrounding the babyfur topic. It's clearly a topic for discussion about it because there have been so many misunderstandings. There is just the practical issue remaining of how to integrate all of this into an encyclopedic entry.

:::::--{{UT|ToyDragon}}

::::: For some...yes. But not for all. What babyfur means to you is not necessiarily what babyfur means to others. This article was written in the hopes to cover as many bases as possible. There are babyfurs out there that have no intrest in the sexual ageplay. They just like to play innocent characters. There is '''no''' connection of a diaper and a fetish object to them. To deny that these babyfurs exist is a disservice to them and a misrepresentation of the community. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 20:12, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::The problem that I see in trying to clear off the name of Babyfurs for a clear definition is the fact "Babyfur" is associated tightly with so many other sexual kinks: AD/BL, infantilism, watersports, scat, ageplay, overalls and clothing, baby oil, etc..... I don't see any other way to view it as just an adaptation of the kink, whether it be inherently sexual or not, it's still a kink, with a tail stuck on it. Furryness aside, adult babies for the most part is in fact a sexual element added to their life. Wikipedia's entry on [[Wikipedia:Infantilism]] even mentions this:

::::::"Some forms of infantilism are purely regressive, without any sexual content. After an individual has reached full maturity, including a fully independent living situation, as well as stabilized in his or her long term sexual role in society, most infantilists report having incorporated certain aspects of sexuality into their infantilism. However, some few adult infantilists report never having done so. Even though some infantilists may never incorporate any aspects of sexuality into their practice, most adult infantilists would agree that their practice of infantilism has minimally had a profound effect on their sexuality, if not having been a direct part of it."

::::::--[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 23:05, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::: And this is not Wikipedia, but rather a wikicities site on wikipedia. Why don't you detail fixes instead of just pointing out what's wrong , so that we may discuss fixes instead of your amporphous ideals, and then we can vote on those suggestions? If you're just going to point out what's wrong, you need to leave. You're not contributing to WikiSociety. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 23:12, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::::Actually.. we aren't connected to Wikipedia in anyway. Wikicities is privately owned and financed, but respects similar values to Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation. ;) -[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 01:47, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:::::::: Ah.. you are correct. I was thinking that Wales founded Wikipedia under Wikia, but he chose not to. Regardless, according to the wikicity creation policy , we do operate with a tit-for-tat relationship with Wikipedia. Also, it is expected upon reading the wikicities information that Wikisociety still take place in the same manner as it would on a wikipediaproject vs a wikia project. (Which was created thusly to be a commercial entity) [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 02:09, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::: I believe you mean "amorphous". Really now. Don't hold back your real feelings about me. I've contributed to a number of other articles which I openly know more about than this, and for that very reason, I don't even assume to know everything about a subject that I myself have never participated in, but such arrogance to assume that a higher definition can be obtained through individual personal opinion rather than the collective thoughts of the many, plus outside sources like Wikipedia and thefreedictionary.com... that just boggles me blind. I don't dare to add or subtract from this entry simply because I know that I don't know everything about it. But, I do know a little about ageplay matters, and sexuality in general is rather a hobby of mine to study. I know that in the US, we've obtained such a high degree of puritanical BS to make us want to hide and cover up our true natures, which is the direct force behind so much of our conflicting and ambiguous ideals... to me, this entire matter is simply a matter of covering things up and making us "feel" better just because something isn't socially accepted. It's the entire problem we as furs as a whole have. We can't face reality, and that, Red, is more of a hinderance than any "non"-contribution that I could dish out. Sorry for the difference of opinion. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 00:02, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

:::::::Will you get to the POINT , Crassus? Please? What do you want? We are not going to turn this into a boylove article, so forget about that. Further, the purpose of this article is not to explore the sexuality of babyfur, but to explore babyfur on the whole. So.. will you please tell us what you want or drop it? Yes, you're very clearly into pedophilia, and yes, you do not like the "puritanical" viewpoints, and yes, you think that , from reading things.. everyone should be allowed to have sex, both pedo and non. Forget what I think of your viewpoints, and just get to the point about what you want to see in this article. The next thing out of your mouth had best not be a diatribe about how evil society is for not letting you have sex with children, and better be something about THIS article. [[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 00:21, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::::Fine. Let me spell it out. Again. (I already did so up there somewhere.) Section VII of the article is biased and it should NOT be biased. Change it.

::::::::"Yes, you're very clearly into pedophilia, and yes, you do not like the "puritanical" viewpoints"

:::::::: You say that like it's a bad thing to be open minded and not a bigot. And no, I'm not "into pedophilia". That's stupid. Pedophilia is a modern clinical term coined in the 1800's by some victorian know-it-all shrink dude for a biased point of view during the height of the anti-child-labor movement as part of the backlash to the industrial revolution. During the 20th century it got taken a step further and it got turned not only from a term for a paraphilia, but also a blurred connotation for child rape and molestation, which is NOT part of the equation. Think of it this way: It would be like forcing someone into a diaper who doesn't want to have one. It's not consentual. Rape is rape, no matter the age. So, no. I am '''not''' into pedophilia. Sorry. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 05:57, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::::::Section VII is staying the way it is until someone proposes a change and that changes gets voted on. Simply saying change it is not helpful since it does not offer us something to change it to. So, again, please make a suggestion or leave. You're not even a babyfur, Crassus, why the hell is this bothering you so much? The babyfurs by and large seem okay with it. (Oh, and by the way, we're allowed to be biased here. NPOV is not strictly enforced here. You might want to read the wikifur policy. Please also note that it says to consult an admin, and so far two admins have looked this page over and think its just fine..)[[User:Redcard|Redcard]] 12:04, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::::::::::'''HOW''' is section VII bias? All I seem to be getting from you and this conversation is you [Crassus] wanting to remove the section that says not all babyfurs get sexual stimulation from it. If that's all you want, I've already told you, many times, that it's not true. I know a few that do not cross that line. I also know a few babyfurs that do not even get involved in real life with it, all they do is roleplay young characters on a muck or such. I can see your confusion as the first line of the article states that a babyfur is an ab/dl furry. They do make up a chunk of the general babyfur population, but not all of them. Again, that's not always true and I corrected that.

::::::::::Also, to the both of you, please stop the personal attacks. This is '''NOT''' the place for them. -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 13:57, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

==Revisions==

How do we offer proposed revisions for the entry? --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 18:36, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:Well, one possibility is simply write out the text that you have in mind and put it right here. --[[User:DuncanDaHusky|Duncan da Husky]] 18:37, 26 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I had a good talk with a friend of mine who is a babyfur, and has given me some insight into things. I'm going to see what people think.

A babyfur = A fur who labels themself as someone who fits into the babyfur ideals. Those ideals mean any or all of the following:

*Might or might not be into infantilism, AB/DL, or any range of various sexual interests at any varying degree.
*Ageplaying an extremely young age: birth through pre-schooler age.
*Might find their play sexual.
*Might find the age they roleplay sexual.
*Might find diapers and other paraphernilia sexual. They may wear diapers for whatever reason, whether it be for fun, to feel emotionally comforting, to be enabled sexually, or for medical conditions.
*Might not find any of the play sexual, but enjoys it on a level.
*Might talk funny ICly.
*Might talk funny OOCly.
*Might be a pedosexual, might not be.
*Might RP, might not. Might RP RL, some only online.

More to come as I think of it. At this point, I'm really confused as to how we can define something that no one really agrees upon. I guess just to offer different definitions. --[[User:Crassus|Crassus]] 00:26, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: Everything you've said in this is already in the article somewhere...or am I missing something? -- [[User:Rama|Rama]] 21:53, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

: Isn't this a tad broad? "any range of various sexual interests at any varying degree." Then "but enjoys it on a level." What does that mean? It is NOT necesarily a sexual enjoyment, unless you think everything is sexual, then food is sexual too, and movies, and biking... I think that statement is redundant. If they didn't enjoy it (they suffered it?) they wouldn't do it, would they? --[[user:Tundu|Tundu]] 00:53, Aug 31 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Furry art

2005-08-28T00:44:16Z

Astolpho: tutorials, books, and other resources

This paragraph in particular I think could do with some expanding:

''The underground comics culture gave rise to a wave of independent black and white comics in the 1980s. It was during this time that many of the first proto-furry comics and APAzines began to appear. Steve Galacci's Albedo, Eastman and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Stan Sakai's Usagi Yojimbo, and Reed Waller's Omaha the Cat Dancer were among them, many of them now considered to be cornerstones of what was still becoming the furry fandom.''

I think that Steve Gallacci and Omaha the Cat Dancer deserve a lot more in the way of credit than just a namedrop but that information is outside my sphere of expertise. I could do a bit of homework after I finish the rest of the article (which is going to focus more on the creation of furry art, link to hell of tutorials, etcetera) if nobody else feels sassy enough to take it on, though. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 22:57, 27 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Hey, this is looking great so far. The writing tone is especially good and to my eyes, is doing a good job of capturing the encylopedic/academic voice.

Super Nitpick Power, item #1: Starfox should be attributed to Nintendo, who owns the IP and characters. Rare merely handled development duties for one game to bear the Starfox title, Starfox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet on the Nintendo Gamecube. Also, an excellent example of a heavily "furry" videogame series that is probably even more visible than Starfox to many is Sly Cooper franchise, by developer Sucker Punch. -- {{UT|ToyDragon}}
:In point of fact, the original version of this article had Sly Cooper instead of Star Fox, I just changed it because there's already a huge Star Fox article to link to. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 23:07, 27 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== tutorials, books, and other resources ==

The links in that section was just a list of what I knew about offhand and the books that I most highly recommend (except for the jack hamm book, my own opinion is that it's pretty worthless but I know it's a popular recommendation), it's by no means exhaustive list of resources. I know of a few other more general drawing tutorial sites online that aren't so photoshop-centric but I have to chase around for them to find them, and ask some more knowledgable friends about their recommendations for books and tutes and so on, too.

Basically what I'm trying to say here is if anyone reading this has more suggestions for books or whatever, please do add them in.

I have one more section to add but like I said, I'm done for the moment because my girlfriend wants to go out, so I'll finish it later. --[[User:Rootdown|Rootdown]] 00:44, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Furry art

2005-08-28T00:39:39Z

Astolpho: Added 'Creating Furry Art.' I have one more section to add but I am done for the moment.

'''Furry art''' or '''anthro art''' is a phrase sometimes used to describe artwork depicting [[anthropomorphic]] animal characters. Usually furry art is created with [[furry fandom]] as the main audience, though some works that could be described as "furry art" are intended for a larger, more mainstream audience.

A person who creates furry art is called a ''[[furry artist]]''.

== Defining Traits ==

The most basic and pervasive idiom of furry art is the depiction of [[humanoid]] figures with animal traits: heads, tails, ears, fur, and so on. This isn't always the case: furry artwork can include completely non-humanoid animals whose only anthropomorphic traits might be their facial expressions, dialogue, range of emotions acted out, to the completely opposite end of the spectrum in completely human characters with animal ears and tails attatched to them, as is popular in [[anime]] fanart. Another popular theme in furry art is in the [[transformation]] of people to animals and vice versa, as in [[werewolves]] or other mythical creatures, or in [[science fiction]] devices, such as the use of [[genetic engineering]].

=== Origins in other genres ===

The most commonly accepted theory as to the origination of furry art is that it has its roots in the indie [[Wikipedia:Comics|comics]] and science fiction/fantasy fan culture of the 1980s.

Due to heavy censorship of the comic book industry by the Comics Code Authority in the 1960s and 70s, there was a huge boom in underground comics, and it was during this time that Robert Crumb began creating the seminal [[Wikipedia:Fritz_The_Cat|Fritz the Cat]] comics, a sexually graphic story about a cartoon cat, which would later be made into a film by maverick [[Wikipedia:Animation|animation]] director [[Wikipedia:Ralph_Bakshi|Ralph Bakshi]]. Fritz the Cat came at a time when animation was universally considered to be a children's medium, and perhaps because of this and its aggressive countercultural bent, it met with little critical approval and to this day remains an obscure film outside of animation enthusiast circles.

The underground comics culture gave rise to a wave of independent black and white comics in the 1980s. It was during this time that many of the first [[proto_Furry]] comics and [[APA]]zines began to appear. [[Steve Galacci]]'s [[Albedo]], Eastman and Laird's [[Wikipedia:Teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles|Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles]], [[Stan Sakai]]'s [[Usagi Yojimbo]], and [[Reed Waller]]'s [[Wikipedia:Omaha_the_Cat_Dancer|Omaha the Cat Dancer]] were among them, many of them now considered to be cornerstones of what was still becoming the furry fandom.

Many of the most prominent furry artists of the 1990s, such as [[Terrie Smith]], [[Daphne Lage]], and [[Tygger Graf]], and even contemporary fan favorite [[Marci McAdam]] all point to Wendy and Richard Pini's popular [[Wikipedia:Elfquest|Elfquest]] series of fantasy comics as a major source of stylistic influence. Though Elfquest doesn't feature what would normally be considered furry characters, it shares, and is possibly responsible for introducing many ideas popular in furry art and fiction: protagonists who are close to nature and are able to communicate with animals, an enormous emphasis on empathy and sentimentality, names such as "Petalwing," "Clearbrook," or "Moonshade" that combine two nature- or color-oriented words into one, the use of human beings as antagonistic characters, and a predilection for mystical, nativist imagery.

Even today, popular fantasy fiction and children's cartoons continue to influence trends in furry art. Witness the enormous popularity of [[Brian Jaques]]' [[Redwall]] series of novels, [[Disney]]'s 1994 blockbuster feature [[The Lion King]], Rare Software's [[Star Fox]] series of videogames, or Rumiko Takahashi's cartoon [[Inuyasha]] among today's furry fan artists.

For more information on this subject, you may be interested in reading about the [[history of furry art]], as soon as it is written.

[http://yarf.furry.com/chronology.html A Chronology of Furry Fandom by Fred Patten]

=== Yeah, but is it Furry? ===

The definition of what should and should not be considered furry is a subject of ongoing controversy. Some individuals favor a definition that includes any and all media that relates to the anthropomorphism of animals, stretching from prehistoric cave paintings to representations of Egyptian gods, to contemporary Warner-Brothers cartoons, to the most lewd and graphic images that can be found on the [[VCL]] can and should all be classified as furry art. Others favor a more exclusive definition, arguing that only those images and media created by individuals who operate within the social boundaries of the furry fandom and whose output is distributed primarily inside of the fandom's channels should be considered to be furry art; and while extracurricular media might be enjoyed by furry fans, it is not furry in and of itself.

The major criticisms of the inclusive definition of furry art are that it is an attempt to justify and elevate fan-oriented output to be equivalent to what is created outside of the fandom (this opinion is predicated of course on the belief that furry art does not qualify for the same level of distinction), and that it trivializes the historical artwork and more mainstream media by the association. Opponents of the exclusive definition argue that it is only used by aggressors and [[troll]]s to diminish and confine furry artwork that might be appropriate for a larger audience and that nobody can know for certain what audience an artist intended his creations for.

Many artists who have been known to attend furry conventions, roleplay as anthropomorphic animals, and represent themselves as such in art are uncomfortable with the "furry" label for various reasons. Instead they prefer to classify their artwork as '[[anthro]],' '[[were]],' or any number of other terms that all mean roughly the same thing but lack whatever negative connotations or baggage they feel might be attatched to furry art that they were trying to avoid.

It should also be noted that there there is a significant portion of people who feel that the distinction is not that important, and that to engage in the argument is a waste of time that might be better spent creating, enjoying, or making fun of the art in question.

== Where to find Furry Art ==

A more appropriate question to ask might be where ''can't'' you find furry art. A Google image search for nearly any kind of animal will usually yield furry art featuring that animal within the first page or two. However, the enterprising fan might have more success finding furry art at any one of the many galleries dedicated to hosting it:

[http://us.vclart.net/ The VCL]

[http://www.yerf.com/ Yerf]

[http://www.fanarchive.net/ The Orlando Furry Archive]

[http://yna.solfire.com/ YNA]

Additionally, many general-purpose or cross-genre public gallery sites host furry artwork and most of them feature specific categories for it:

[http://www.sheezyart.com/ Sheezy Art]

[http://www.deviantart.com/ deviantArt]

[http://www.gfxartist.com/ GFXartist]

[http://www.artwanted.com/ Art Wanted]

[http://www.epilogue.net/index.html Epilogue]

[http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/elfwood.pike Elfwood]

Furthermore, there are a wealth of livejournal communities dedicated to the creation, discussion, and exchange of furry art. You might find a few examples of those on the [[List_of_furry_LiveJournal_communities|list of furry livejournal communities]].

It is a common practice for artists to create their own individual galleries, hosted on personal website portfolios. If you discover an artist with a style you enjoy, you might follow links around or google their name in order to find their home page and bookmark it. Many artists also appreciate positive feedback from their fans - don't be shy about sending them email to let them know how you feel about their artwork!

== Creating Furry Art ==

One of the trademarks of the furry art community is its inclusivity. Anybody who wants to put a pencil to paper and draw animal people is welcome to do so and can quickly find a place in the furry art scene should they have a mind to, and many of the galleries listed above have no content restrictions, thus making them ideal for beginners to share their work.

If you are unsure of how to begin creating furry art, here is a simple step-by-step how-to:

'''1.''' Get a pen or pencil and a sheet of paper. Any kind will do.

'''2.''' Draw whatever it is you have in your head!

'''3.''' Lather, rinse, repeat.

That's it! That's all there is to it. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, and don't be afraid of what other people might say about your artwork. Just draw, all the time. The best avenue of improvement for the any artist at any skill level is to practice, ''constantly''. Anybody can draw, and the people that are exceptionally skilled artists are so because they are drawing nonstop. Patience and diligence are all it takes!

=== Online resources and tutorials ===

There is a wealth of information useful to artists of all skill levels available at no cost on the internet, a great deal of which is specifically topical to furry art:

[http://www.fignations.com/jelisa/tutorials/fur_and_hair.html Fur, hair, and clothing tutorials]

[http://div.dyndns.org/EK/tutorial/ Katherine Dinger's photoshop tutorials and digital painting walkthroughs]

[http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=2503& Eric Tranchefeux's Hyperrealistic Cat Project]

[http://www.deviantart.com/view/17124835/ Jen's Fur Tutorial]

Additionally, drawing resources of a more general nature will help the artist expand his or her skills and visual repertoire:

[http://www.saveloomis.org/ Art Instruction books of Andrew Loomis] - PDF copies of all of Andrew Loomis' books on illustration

[http://www.good-tutorials.com/ Good-Tutorials.com] - Thousands of Adobe Photoshop tutorials, of varying usefulness

[http://www.pslover.com/ Photoshop Lover] - Tutorials and resources

Art technique and discussion boards for useful critical feedback:

[http://www.wetcanvas.com/ Wetcanvas]

[http://www.conceptart.org Conceptart.org]

[http://www.eatpoo.com/phpBB2/index.php Eatpoo Digital Art Forums] - Not for the thin-skinned!

=== Books for Additional Reading ===

Drawing animals:

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399508023/qid=1125187804/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 How to Draw Animals], Jack Hamm

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1581801319/qid=1125188100/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Painting Animals that Touch the Heart], by Lesley Harrison

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486274268/qid=1125187804/sr=8-8/ref=pd_bbs_8/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 The Art of Animal Drawing: Construction, Action Analysis, Caricature], by Ken Hultgren

Figure drawing:

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131830481/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance Figure Drawing: The Structural Anatomy and Expressive Design of the Human Form] by Nathan Goldstein

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823014010/qid=1125185896/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters] and [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823002810/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books&n=507846&st=* Anatomy Lessons from the Great Masters] by Robert Beverly Hale

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/078948045X/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance Anatomy for the Artist] by Sarah Simblett

General drawing technique:

[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874774241/qid=1125188171/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-3825148-4506336?v=glance&s=books Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain], by Betty Edwards

For related information, see also: [[Furry Artist]].

[[Category:Arts and Crafts]]