WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Michael Hirtes

2010-04-04T16:55:08Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Michael Hirtes''' was a [[furry]] publisher, especially known for the digest-sized [[fanzine]] ''[[Furplay]],'' which was published in the 1990's, and was devoted to pin-ups and hardcore fur [[erotica]].

Up to mid-2005, he was a regular poster on [[alt.fan.furry]], moving on to up to 2009 to the [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] and [[Lulz.net]] forums. He was eventually banned from Crush! Yiff! Destroy! for attempting to post real-life information about [[Sage Freehaven]] during a harassment attempt.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82682&highlight=#82682 "This wiki has been closed" - CYD topic where Hirtes was banned.]</ref> He was later banned from Lulz.net for spamming numerous threads with different nude photographs of overweight males that he had collected, although he still regularly posts via multiple proxies. He similarly uses proxies to harass the image board of Sage Freehaven, where he alternates between claiming he's being persecuted, and using bigoted/homophobic insults and wishing death on various artists.

== Published media ==

He also published a [[wikipedia:Harem|harem]]-themed [[zine]] called ''[[Midnight Sands]]'', and wrote a story called ''[[Desert Storms]]'', which was drawn and inked by artist [[Dean L. Norton]] and published in three parts in ''[[Genus]]'' #27/28 and #39.

== Controversy ==

Over the years, Michael Hirtes has acquired a poor reputation in the fandom, mainly for the alleged harassment of various artists in an effort to obtain artwork for his [[zines]] <ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/4374d39bff4e0aae/e72fa3204da3614f?pli=1 "Drooling Fannie From Hell & Wannabe Publisher"- Posting to to alt.fan.furry by [[Tygger]]]</ref>, including requesting adult material from artists who were not (or were no longer) comfortable with such subjects. He has also tried to cheat artists out of commissions through various methods. <ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/689043/ "Wow - what a Bday gift! XP" - FA journal by Fluffball]</ref> <ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3559 CrushYiffDestroy forum thread "This is why we can't have nice things"]</ref>

In 2009, his Fur Affinity account "mhirtes" was perma-banned from the site after he caused considerable drama, among them harassing users and multiple reports scamming artists via charge back methods. A second account belonging to Michael Hirtes, "stealthy", was discovered on March 21, 2010 after similar reports of fraudulent behavior and harassment. <ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1284627/ Dragoneer Posting on Hirtes (Scammer Alert and why he was banned again) posted 3/22/2010]</ref>

==References==
<references/>

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Mhirtes}}
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mhirtes/ Michael Hirtes] on [[Fur Affinity]] (banned)
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/stealthy Stealthy], 2nd account on [[Fur Affinity]] (banned)

{{person-stub}}
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Writers]]
[[Category:Publishers]]

Michael Hirtes

2010-03-28T18:52:04Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Michael Hirtes''' was a [[furry]] publisher, especially known for the digest-sized [[fanzine]] ''[[Furplay]],'' which was published in the 1990's, and was devoted to pin-ups and hardcore fur [[erotica]].

Up to mid-2005, he was a regular poster on [[alt.fan.furry]], moving on to up to 2009 to the [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] and [[Lulz.net]] forums. He was eventually banned from Crush! Yiff! Destroy! for attempting to post real-life information about [[Sage Freehaven]] during a harassment attempt.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82682&highlight=#82682 "This wiki has been closed" - CYD topic where Hirtes was banned.]</ref> He was later banned from Lulz.net for spamming numerous threads with different nude photographs of overweight males that he had collected, although he still regularly posts via multiple proxies.

== Published media ==

He also published a [[wikipedia:Harem|harem]]-themed [[zine]] called ''[[Midnight Sands]]'', and wrote a story called ''[[Desert Storms]]'', which was drawn and inked by artist [[Dean L. Norton]] and published in three parts in ''[[Genus]]'' #27/28 and #39.

== Controversy ==

Over the years, Michael Hirtes has acquired a poor reputation in the fandom, mainly for the alleged harassment of various artists in an effort to obtain artwork for his [[zines]] <ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/4374d39bff4e0aae/e72fa3204da3614f?pli=1 "Drooling Fannie From Hell & Wannabe Publisher"- Posting to to alt.fan.furry by [[Tygger]]]</ref>, including requesting adult material from artists who were not (or were no longer) comfortable with such subjects.{{fact}} He has also tried to cheat artists out of commissions through various methods. <ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/689043/ "Wow - what a Bday gift! XP" - FA journal by Fluffball]</ref> <ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3559 CrushYiffDestroy forum thread "This is why we can't have nice things"]</ref>

In 2009, he was banned from FurAffinty, though was later unbanned. He was banned again on March 21, 2010, for the same reasons as before.<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1284627/ Dragoneer Posting on Hirtes (Scammer Alert and why he was banned again) posted 3/22/2010]</ref>

==References==
<references/>

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Mhirtes}}
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mhirtes/ Michael Hirtes] on [[Fur Affinity]] (banned)
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/stealthy Stealthy], 2nd account on [[Fur Affinity]] (banned)

{{person-stub}}
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Writers]]
[[Category:Publishers]]

Jim Hardiman

2010-02-07T21:01:44Z

75.17.251.234: Reverted Spirou performing analingus on Hardiman. You're tough when your opponent's on the internet, typical for a furry.

[[Image:Jim_Wedding.jpg|right|thumb|220px|Jim Hardiman]]
'''Jim Hardiman''' is a [[furry artist]] and the creator of the ''Skunkworks'' and ''[[The Ups and Downs]]'' series. He lives in Florida, and enjoys motorcycles.

== Skunkworks ==

[[Skunkworks (characters)|Skunkworks]] features three sassy young [[skunk]] female girls, '''Lori Parks''', '''Oynx''', and '''Natasha''', and their mischief. Some stories also feature their mother '''Valencia''' and the alter egos of Hardiman and fellow artist [[Desiree Lee]].

=== Content ===

Usually the stories are of a [[pornographic]] nature, but with a dose of humor and wit. The girls are often shown as being exhibitionists and practicing incest, and their antics frequently get them into trouble, along with making life hell for Jim.

Both these stories and single pieces of art tend to feature fetishes such as massive insertions, "gape" (where the female's vagina or anus has been stretched open after being penetrated with a large phallic object), and stretching so as to be able to view the cervix.

== Medical issues ==

In 2002, he developed eye problems relating to [[Wikipedia:diabetes mellitus|diabetes]] and had to stop attending [[convention]]s. Many fans raised money to pay his medical bills,<ref>[http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=795 Help Jim Hardiman!]'' - a post on the furry news site, [[Flayrah|Flayrah.com]]</ref> with [[Radio Comix]] publishing [[Skunkworks Reflections]], a multi artist tribute book created to further help cover his bills.<ref>[https://radiocomixstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_31&products_id=305 ''Skunkworks Reflections''] tribute book page</ref><ref>[http://www.radiocomix.com/reflections.html Radio Comix info page] about ''Skunkworks Reflections''</ref>

== The future ==

He has yet to decided to return to full time fandom involvement, although he occasionally posts new works in various image boards when time and health permit. His close friend (and rumored alter-ego){{fact}} Desiree Lee continues to create ''[[By The Tail]]'' with his characters.

When he (or Desiree) has new works to share, Hardiman will post them to his Skunkworks mailing list, and additionally (to prevent others from doing so,) he will post shareable works on sites such as [[Fchan]]. While he also originally posted images and participated in discussions on Lulz.net, he eventually stopped when criticism of his art and himself became commonplace. (Lulz would later feature as the favorite site of one of the strawman fans attacked in a series of images by Desiree Lee.)

Hardiman also occasionally posts on [[Crush Yiff Destroy]] to bemoan the state of the fandom.

== April Fools' gags ==
=== Gay Skunkworks ===

On [[Wikipedia:April Fools' Day|April Fools' Day]] 2008, skunked.com announced that due to changes in the furry fandom since Skunkworks was first published, the books would be rewritten to with new content to reflect such fandom changes, initially with the introduction of four [[gay]] [[male]] characters, '''Vance''' and his three sons, '''Nathan''', '''Ollie''' and '''Larry'''.<ref>[http://www.skunked.com/ Main page of skunked.com]. Retrieved 2008 April 28.</ref> stereotypical gay male counterparts of Val and her three girls.

=== Skankworks ===

Another image using the "change in the fandom" idea featured the three girls as [[Wikipedia:Emo|emo]]/[[Wikipedia:Goth|goth]] types on the fake cover of the aptly named "Skankworks". Another mocked prolapse fetishism, which was considered in several image board threads to be rather mystifying considering Hardiman's consistent portrayal of massive insertions and "gape".

These pictures made references to various other artists and trends in the fandom, most of them having been relatively "new" as opposed to Hardiman's long tenure in the fandom. The text that accompanied the images was openly insulting towards gays, emos, and fetishists outside of Hardiman's area of art, and assured the Skunkworks audience that such things would never, ever appear on the Skunkworks site.

The Gay Skunkworks text:

(Pink text)

The furry fandom has changed since Skunkworks first came out in 1995, and in our ever-increasing effort to adapt to the new crowd, we're rewriting the books! We're pleased to introduce you to Vance and his three sons, Nathan, Ollie and Larry. Vance is the physical education coach and the dean of the new "SPUNKWORKS" college for boys. He and his three sons pack more fudge in a single day than both the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus do in a year!

It's been many years since Vance took on the entire football team (and he has the scars to prove it!), and he's proud his three sons follow in his footsteps. There's Nathan, who's the glamorous girly-boy, Ollie, the athletic pole-jumper, the sensitive guy who likes it hard, deep and fierce. These three introduce all the new students to the ways of the new generation, whether it's what the students want or not.

These stories are filled with angst, emotional outbreaks, poetry, and lots of messy mansex. Join these four as they continue to break in the new students, and further push the boundaries of "higher education" all in the name of freedom and acceptance.

It's good to be different, but it's better to cram it down everyone's throat, too.

(White text)

Are you tired of seeing your favorite artist pull a surprise on you and bend over for a buck? Well you won't have to deal with crap like that here. At Skunkworks, we still produce the same subject matter we've been drawing for over a decade. You can relax now, knowing that you'll never have to see anything on this site like what's shown above.

So what do we draw? The same thing we've been drawing since 1995: anthropomorphic artwork ranging from G-XXX. If you like furry tits, pussy or ass, well, we've got plenty of that, too. The one thing we don't have is any nasty surprises...

== Other Identities ==

As noted above, there are continuing doubts that Hardiman's apprentice/girlfriend Desiree Lee actually exists. (A controversy discussed with numerous demands for citations on the [[Desiree Lee]] page.) This is overall due to their nearly identical art styles and the lack of "hard" evidence of Desiree's existence outside of the internet and the assurances of one or two of Hardiman's artist friends. Much as with the controversy regarding the identity of TDK versus Eric Schwartz, it is believed Desiree was Hardiman's way of drawing copyrighted characters, but also as a way for him to be more confrontational and outspoken against critics, without either being associated directly with him.

Another identity was that of an artist who drew [[cub art]]. Again, the style of the art was utterly indistinguishable from Hardiman's regular style, despite being posted under another name. Comparisons were done showing that Hardiman and the cub artist shared an IP address{{fact}}. When confronted with this, Hardiman claimed that the other artist was a fan of his who had not only replicated his style just by viewing his art, but also lived down the street from him and had made contact; this supposed person also supposedly had no internet connection, and Hardiman supposedly posted the images for him despite disagreeing with the content.

== References ==
<references/>

== External links ==

* [http://www.skunked.com/ Skunked.com] - Jim Hardiman's website.
* [http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_1369_0_0.html Jim Hardiman's ''Skunkworks''] at [[Rabbit Valley]]
* [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkunkworksAMA/ SkunkworksAMA] - Skunkworks' [[Wikipedia:Yahoo! Groups|Yahoo Group]]

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Comic artists]]
[[Category:Florida]]

Talk:Jim Hardiman

2010-02-07T21:00:04Z

75.17.251.234:

I think there are a couple of inaccuracies in the article that should be dealt with... one, Desiree doesn't "draw his comics for him." They both work together on a lot of pieces, yes, but the article implies that she's working for him or some such.

He still does artwork as best as he can with his medical condition, although he finds the rampant piracy of his stuff to be frustrating.

And I think to say that "he never returned" sounds pretty final. "Has yet to return" may be more fitting.--[[User:172.161.23.201|172.161.23.201]] 08:37, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:I've made a few changes and several additions. I'm still not ''entirely'' sure whether the "friend" bit is appropriate, but I don't know the situation, so I'm leaving it there. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 09:08, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

::Made a few more minor changes. Want to indicate that he occasionally posts up new works on various chan-style imageboards, but wasn't sure how. I know I see him doing new red-pencil and occasionally even inked works on Onechan and Yiff FAP. [[[[User:Incognit000|Incognit000]] 19:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)]]

:Well, I finally got the eye surgery I've been needing for the past several years. I reckon it'll only be a matter of weeks before I start kicking ass in the art department again. Got a lot of catching up to do! Thanks for the entries, by the way. And what questions do you have about Des?

::I think the item in question is primarily the quote-marks around the word ''friend''. I've changed that slightly, and added a bit about the chans, as well as your mailing list. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 20:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

::Yep, basically what Siege said - the implication of it wasn't entirely clear, and we try to avoid having articles imply stuff that isn't clear or accurate. That's great news on the eye surgery! Sorry it took you so long to get it, but I hope the results will be worth it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Jim Just recently had a kidney transplant too.I dunno if anyone knows about it or not.I am a member of his fan site so I get regular updates on his health.Hes also talking about only releasing newer material on his website to prevent piracy -Sniffindahouse

== Update forthcoming? ==

Recently spoke with Hardiman and was told that up-to-date info about himself, health issues, and the whole "Desiree" deal will be brought forth when he gets his site back online. He stated he was growing tired of the behavior of certain people within the fandom, and said it would be best to set the record straight by posting IRL info about himself and the real "Desiree". He also said photos from 1990 were recently uploaded to his FA page (user name Skunkworks) showing the two of them together. I don't know if this will help complete the "Desiree=Jim Hardiman" article or not, but thought it was of possible interest and decided to post it here.

Will post links or infrmation when the Skunked.com website is operational.

[[User:Belltower|Belltower]] 08:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)Belltower

== Tone ==

This article has the sort of simpering, lickspittle tone that gives Wikifur a negative reputation as a "fandom hugbox". It is clearly defensive of Hardiman and makes a blatant effort to defend him against criticism and to attack his critics. It could, at the least, be written slightly more neutrally and with some of the more obvious obsequiousness removed.{{unsigned|75.17.251.234}}

:Sounds to me like we got a hater here. ----Sniffindahouse

::Sounds to me like you're proving a point here.{{unsigned|66.169.149.223}}

:::Well, when adding "The text that accompanied the images was openly insulting towards gays, emos, and fetishists outside of Hardiman's area of art", you just replaced one opinion with another. Who claimed that it was insulting, where? Even better, what did it say? We're not censored for minors; a brief quote may be appropriate so that readers can make their own minds up as to the level of insult. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 01:21, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

:The article is not protected. If you feel the tone is inappropriate, you are welcome to edit it. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 19:50, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

::There. I've transcribed Hardiman's homophobic ranting about tolerance being forced on him and fearmongering about gay rape.::::There. I've transcribed Hardiman's homophobic ranting about tolerance being forced on him and fearmongering about gay rape. I'd like to claim some sort of payment (like punching him in the face), but I guess my suffering will just be for the sake of putting it there. I snagged the image from where he posted it and a few others here: http://fchan.us/artist/res/864.html "No malice intended" indeed. I snagged the image from where he posted it and a few others here: http://fchan.us/artist/res/864.html "No malice intended" indeed.{{unsigned|75.140.224.90}}

:::"There. I've transcribed Hardiman's homophobic ranting about tolerance being forced on him and fearmongering about gay rape. I'd like to claim some sort of payment (like punching him in the face), but I guess my suffering will just be for the sake of putting it there." A ban for intimidation and bodily threats will be more appropriated. [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 01:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

:::: Oh look. Wikifur is trying to cover up for a popular artist again. How shocking. Did Jim draw you any art to be his bitch, or did you whore out what little integrity you have for free?

Desiree Lee

2010-01-24T09:10:25Z

75.17.251.234:

{{unreferenced}}
'''Desiree Lee''' is a [[female]]{{fact}} [[furry artist]] that got originally involved in the [[furry]] genre by drawing parody [[furry art|artwork]]. Since then she has gone on to producing her own original artwork with characters designed either by her, or her friend [[Jim Hardiman]].

A college graduate{{fact}}, she currently works in an art-related field{{fact}} (information about her job, schooling and/or real name is highly guarded).

==Parody works==
Her first parody website is still up and running, although it hasn't been updated in years. This is due to two things{{fact}}:
# She wanted to get away from parody art{{fact}}, and
# She had a falling out with the webmaster of the site. {{fact}}

==Fursona==

Desiree's character is some sort of lizard, apparently intended to be a chameleon to judge by its constantly changing colors. It can be most immediately recognized by its visible ill temper, as in the majority of drawings it will be snarling, screaming at someone, or assaulting someone.

This behavior was most highlighted in a series of images where the character attacked and mocked a steady string of fandom stereotype strawmen. These could be considered complimentary works to Jim Hardiman's "Skankworks" style mockery images, as the tone and style are indistinguishable.

==Controversy==
{{dubious}}
A rumor has been thoroughly pushed around{{fact}} and discussed{{fact}} that "Desiree Lee" is in fact fictional, and merely an alter-ego of Jim Hardiman himself. Various pieces of evidence have been put forth to support this view such as:
*Virtually indistinguishable art styles, even taking into account the claims that Jim trained her.{{Fact}}
*Lack of any person that can attest to ever having met Desiree in person, even those who are usually extremely close to Jim.{{fact}}
*Desiree's enraged reactions {{fact}} to being accused to of not being real, which she responds to by threatening to post some bit of personal information to confirm her identity,{{fact}} which never comes to being as Jim "handily shows up to calm her down"{{fact}} and "talk her out of it."{{Fact}}
This allegation has slowly been propagated over the years through forums, mailing lists, and lately, throught [[image boards]] such as [[4chan]], [[Onechan]] or [[Sidechan]]<ref>[http://sidechan.net/furi/res/51851.html An example] where this assertion is brought forth in a discussion.</ref>, but it has never been adequately proved and/or refuted.
*In a phone conversation furry author [[Chris Foxx|Chris Yost]] had with with Jim Hardiman in 2005, he stated that Desiree Lee is in fact a real person, and their relationship is much closer than simple friends and fellow artists. He went on to say that that he does not invite her to furry conventions due to her short temperament.{{Fact}}

==Current projects==
These, most notably ''[[By The Tail]]'', can be found on [http://skunked.com Skunked.com].

==References==

<references />

[[Category:People]]{{fact}}
[[Category:Artists]]

Desiree Lee

2010-01-24T08:58:30Z

75.17.251.234: May as well be thorough with these, since the page has so many.

{{unreferenced}}
'''Desiree Lee''' is a [[female]]{{fact}} [[furry artist]] that got originally involved in the [[furry]] genre by drawing parody [[furry art|artwork]]. Since then she has gone on to producing her own original artwork with characters designed either by her, or her friend [[Jim Hardiman]].

A college graduate{{fact}}, she currently works in an art-related field{{fact}} (information about her job, schooling and/or real name is highly guarded).

==Parody works==
Her first parody website is still up and running, although it hasn't been updated in years. This is due to two things{{fact}}:
# She wanted to get away from parody art{{fact}}, and
# She had a falling out with the webmaster of the site. {{fact}}

==Controversy==
{{dubious}}
A rumor has been thoroughly pushed around{{fact}} and discussed{{fact}} that "Desiree Lee" is in fact fictional, and merely an alter-ego of Jim Hardiman himself. Various pieces of evidence have been put forth to support this view such as:
*Virtually indistinguishable art styles, even taking into account the claims that Jim trained her.{{Fact}}
*Lack of any person that can attest to ever having met Desiree in person, even those who are usually extremely close to Jim.{{fact}}
*Desiree's enraged reactions {{fact}} to being accused to of not being real, which she responds to by threatening to post some bit of personal information to confirm her identity,{{fact}} which never comes to being as Jim "handily shows up to calm her down"{{fact}} and "talk her out of it."{{Fact}}
This allegation has slowly been propagated over the years through forums, mailing lists, and lately, throught [[image boards]] such as [[4chan]], [[Onechan]] or [[Sidechan]]<ref>[http://sidechan.net/furi/res/51851.html An example] where this assertion is brought forth in a discussion.</ref>, but it has never been adequately proved and/or refuted.
*In a phone conversation furry author [[Chris Foxx|Chris Yost]] had with with Jim Hardiman in 2005, he stated that Desiree Lee is in fact a real person, and their relationship is much closer than simple friends and fellow artists. He went on to say that that he does not invite her to furry conventions due to her short temperament.{{Fact}}

==Current projects==
These, most notably ''[[By The Tail]]'', can be found on [http://skunked.com Skunked.com].

==References==

<references />

[[Category:People]]{{fact}}
[[Category:Artists]]

Talk:Jim Hardiman

2010-01-24T08:53:03Z

75.17.251.234:

Michael Hirtes

2010-01-01T02:37:56Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Michael Hirtes''' was a [[furry]] publisher, especially known for the digest-sized [[fanzine]] ''[[Furplay]],'' which was published in the 1990's, and was devoted to pin-ups and hardcore fur [[erotica]].

Up to mid-2005, he was a regular poster on [[alt.fan.furry]], moving on to up to 2009 to the [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] and [[Lulz.net]] forums. He was eventually banned from Crush! Yiff! Destroy! for attempting to post real-life information about [[Sage Freehaven]] during a harassment attempt.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82682&highlight=#82682 "This wiki has been closed" - CYD topic where Hirtes was banned.]</ref> He was later banned from Lulz.net for spamming numerous threads with different nude photographs of overweight males that he had collected.

== Published media ==

He also published a [[wikipedia:Harem|harem]]-themed [[zine]] called ''[[Midnight Sands]]'', and wrote a story called ''[[Desert Storms]]'', which was drawn and inked by artist [[Dean L. Norton]] and published in three parts in ''[[Genus]]'' #27/28 and #39.

== Controversy ==

Over the years, Michael Hirtes has acquired a poor reputation in the fandom, mainly for the alleged harassment of various artists in an effort to obtain artwork for his [[zines]] <ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/4374d39bff4e0aae/e72fa3204da3614f?pli=1 "Drooling Fannie From Hell & Wannabe Publisher"- Posting to to alt.fan.furry by [[Tygger]]]</ref>, including requesting adult material from artists who were not (or were no longer) comfortable with such subjects.{{fact}} He has also tried to cheat artists out of commissions through various methods. <ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/689043/ "Wow - what a Bday gift! XP" - FA journal by Fluffball]</ref> <ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3559 CrushYiffDestroy forum thread "This is why we can't have nice things"]</ref>

==References==
<references />

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Mhirtes}}
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mhirtes/ Michael Hirtes] on [[Fur Affinity]]

{{person-stub}}
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Writers]]
[[Category:Publishers]]

Michael Hirtes

2009-10-25T22:34:32Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Michael Hirtes''' was a [[furry]] publisher, especially known for the digest-sized [[fanzine]] ''[[Furplay]],'' which was published in the 1990's, and was devoted to pin-ups and hardcore fur [[erotica]].

Up to mid-2005, he was a regular poster on [[alt.fan.furry]], moving on to up to 2009 to the [[Crush! Yiff! Destroy!]] and [[Lulz.net]] forums. He was eventually banned from Crush! Yiff! Destroy! for attempting to post real-life information about [[Sage Freehaven]] during a harassment attempt.<ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82682&highlight=#82682 "This wiki has been closed" - CYD topic where Hirtes was banned.]</ref> He was later banned from Lulz.net for spamming numerous threads with different nude pictures of [[AlohaWolf]] that he had collected.

== Published media ==

He also published a [[wikipedia:Harem|harem]]-themed [[zine]] called ''[[Midnight Sands]]'', and wrote a story called ''[[Desert Storms]]'', which was drawn and inked by artist [[Dean L. Norton]] and published in three parts in ''[[Genus]]'' #27/28 and #39.

== Controversy ==

Over the years, Michael Hirtes has acquired a poor reputation in the fandom, mainly for the alleged harassment of various artists in an effort to obtain artwork for his [[zines]] <ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.furry/browse_thread/thread/4374d39bff4e0aae/e72fa3204da3614f?pli=1 "Drooling Fannie From Hell & Wannabe Publisher"- Posting to to alt.fan.furry by [[Tygger]]]</ref>, including requesting adult material from artists who were not (or were no longer) comfortable with such subjects.{{fact}} He has also tried to cheat artists out of commissions through various methods. <ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/689043/ "Wow - what a Bday gift! XP" - FA journal by Fluffball]</ref> <ref>[http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3559 CrushYiffDestroy forum thread "This is why we can't have nice things"]</ref>

==References==
<references />

== External links ==
{{Contributor|Mhirtes}}
* [http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mhirtes/ Michael Hirtes] on [[Fur Affinity]]

{{person-stub}}
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Writers]]
[[Category:Publishers]]

Michael Hirtes

2009-10-24T07:22:41Z

75.17.251.234:

The Goddamned Furry Board

2009-05-22T20:18:46Z

75.17.251.234:

'''The Goddamned Furry Board''' is a kusaba-based imageboard run by [[Sage Freehaven]] and Sechs Fuckheaven, and offers boards for a variety of topics, including furry art.

* '''Website''': http://www.dammitfreehaven.com
* '''Founders and administrators''': [[Sage Freehaven]] and Sechs Fuckheaven
* '''Moderators''': Ragnarok and Hiro
* '''Special Moderators''':
** [[Eric Schwartz]] (August 28 2008 - Present)
* '''Ran from/to''': August 8 2008 - present

== Do Not Post Policy ==

Unlike some [[fchan|furry imageboards]], there is not a strict Do Not Post policy in place at TGFB. Most artists' work is free to be posted on the site; however, there are listings on the DNP; as of November 30 2008, this is the site's complete DNP (copied directly from the site):

* '''Anything from [[SexyFur]] / by [[Jeremy Bernal]]''' - If you have to ask why, you're an idiot.
* '''Anything by [[Phillip M. Jackson|Phillip "Jollyjack" Jackson]]''' - He threatened to shut our site down. All of his work is DNP, as mentioning his name anywhere on this site.
* '''Anything from [[Vixine]]''' - This includes the comics "Pleasure Bon Bon" and "Quest for Fun"; they and their supporters are a bunch of whiny fucks.
* '''Anything from [[HardBlush]]''' - This is a sign of good faith towards [[Onta]], who's been incredibly understanding with us; we'd like to see his site get off to a good start.
* '''[[Fur After Dark|FurAfterDark]]''' - Limited to links of full siterips and images uploaded to the site within the past two months; EWS asked us nicely.
* '''[[Club Stripes|ClubStripes]]''' - Limited to links of full siterips only; we like Midori, and we like her more when she's not pissed off at us.

Additionally, there are no written rules concerning what furry content one can and can't post, although there is a rule (''Post furry art, as long as it doesn't suck shit.'') that keeps a form of quality control in check on the site.

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]

The Goddamned Furry Board

2009-05-22T20:17:47Z

75.17.251.234:

'''The Goddamned Furry Board''' is a kusaba-based imageboard run by [[Sage Freehaven]] and Sechs Fuckheaven, and offers boards for a variety of topics, including furry art.

* '''Website''': http://freehaven.wtfux.org/
* '''Founders and administrators''': [[Sage Freehaven]] and Sechs Fuckheaven
* '''Moderators''': Ragnarok and Hiro
* '''Special Moderators''':
** [[Eric Schwartz]] (August 28 2008 - Present)
* '''Ran from/to''': August 8 2008 - present

== Do Not Post Policy ==

Unlike some [[fchan|furry imageboards]], there is not a strict Do Not Post policy in place at TGFB. Most artists' work is free to be posted on the site; however, there are listings on the DNP; as of November 30 2008, this is the site's complete DNP (copied directly from the site):

* '''Anything from [[SexyFur]] / by [[Jeremy Bernal]]''' - If you have to ask why, you're an idiot.
* '''Anything by [[Phillip M. Jackson|Phillip "Jollyjack" Jackson]]''' - He threatened to shut our site down. All of his work is DNP, as mentioning his name anywhere on this site.
* '''Anything from [[Vixine]]''' - This includes the comics "Pleasure Bon Bon" and "Quest for Fun"; they and their supporters are a bunch of whiny fucks.
* '''Anything from [[HardBlush]]''' - This is a sign of good faith towards [[Onta]], who's been incredibly understanding with us; we'd like to see his site get off to a good start.
* '''[[Fur After Dark|FurAfterDark]]''' - Limited to links of full siterips and images uploaded to the site within the past two months; EWS asked us nicely.
* '''[[Club Stripes|ClubStripes]]''' - Limited to links of full siterips only; we like Midori, and we like her more when she's not pissed off at us.

Additionally, there are no written rules concerning what furry content one can and can't post, although there is a rule (''Post furry art, as long as it doesn't suck shit.'') that keeps a form of quality control in check on the site.

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:51:18Z

75.17.251.234: /* Fchan administration */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Herr Xenofur ist the only one who knows near as much about this as I do. I mean, come on here. According to your people, Xenofur and I kept the entire staff oblivious to the alleged fact that I was running everything. And, none of this, including myself, was an issue because everyone thought I had faded away.
::::::: Kinda sorta means you all really have no clue either.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: Just means that you're very good at lying and deception, by your own admission in the article. That you wrote. Even more reason that you shouldn't be allowed to write your own article. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:39:52Z

75.17.251.234: /* Fchan administration */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:25:15Z

75.17.251.234: /* Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker */

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T03:04:00Z

75.17.251.234: /* Fchan administration */

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:52:37Z

75.17.251.234:

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:41:44Z

75.17.251.234:

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now DICTATOR FOR LIFE! ALL HAIL HERR NADIA! of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:39:52Z

75.17.251.234: Undo revision 181339 by Sage Nadia (talk)

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She wrote 100% of this article herself and then claimed it was objective. She attempted to remove this notification and requested a page lock to keep anyone from noticing.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for disrespect for everyone, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display. It also made fchan absolutely useless.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility, because he dared to not kowtow to her. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. At least, that's how Nadia saw it in her self-centered little persecution complex world. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. Can you tell that she wrote this herself yet? So objective! This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of butthurt, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

However, in actuality everyone and their retarded cousin knows she stole it from [[Sage Freehaven]].

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on. Somehow these "many others" never seem to materialize.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement. She also refuses to do so herself.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:38:35Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia's viewpoint */

'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped bitch Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, insulting any decent artist to expand the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in police stating the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model, which she stole from [[Sage Freehaven]], originally claiming she was doing so all at his orders, but then saying he'd been a horrible admin and that the board was better off without him when he actually regained internet access and could speak for himself. To trim any staff not blindly loyal to her, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human realization of her true nature.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement. She refuses to do herself, instead hiding behind this mysterious "many" that supposedly support it. When this was pointed out, she repeatedly removed it from the article, instead reverting it to its state of seeming support.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:37:04Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia's three step plan */

'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped bitch Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, insulting any decent artist to expand the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in police stating the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model, which she stole from [[Sage Freehaven]], originally claiming she was doing so all at his orders, but then saying he'd been a horrible admin and that the board was better off without him when he actually regained internet access and could speak for himself. To trim any staff not blindly loyal to her, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human realization of her true nature.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:34:31Z

75.17.251.234:

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:30:18Z

75.17.251.234: /* Sage? */

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:29:30Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia's viewpoint */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She wrote 100% of this article herself and then claimed it was objective. She attempted to remove this notification and requested a page lock to keep anyone from noticing.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for disrespect for everyone, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display. It also made fchan absolutely useless.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility, because he dared to not kowtow to her. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. At least, that's how Nadia saw it in her self-centered little persecution complex world. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. Can you tell that she wrote this herself yet? So objective! This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of butthurt, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on. Somehow these "many others" never seem to materialize.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement. She also refuses to do so herself.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:28:30Z

75.17.251.234:

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She wrote 100% of this article herself and then claimed it was objective. She attempted to remove this notification and requested a page lock to keep anyone from noticing.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for disrespect for everyone, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display. It also made fchan absolutely useless.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility, because he dared to not kowtow to her. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. At least, that's how Nadia saw it in her self-centered little persecution complex world. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. Can you tell that she wrote this herself yet? So objective! This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of butthurt, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:27:12Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for disrespect for everyone, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display. It also made fchan absolutely useless.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility, because he dared to not kowtow to her. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. At least, that's how Nadia saw it in her self-centered little persecution complex world. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. Can you tell that she wrote this herself yet? So objective! This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of butthurt, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:23:51Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia's return */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility, because he dared to not kowtow to her. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. At least, that's how Nadia saw it in her self-centered little persecution complex world. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. Can you tell that she wrote this herself yet? So objective! This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of butthurt, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

At least, that's what she's saying now. She used to admit to the fact that she took the name from Sage Freehaven, believing that Sage was a title rather than part of his name. But since she has the power to edit her life for content, this has been retcon punched.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:21:52Z

75.17.251.234: /* Sage? */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

At least, that's what she's saying now. She used to admit to the fact that she took the name from Sage Freehaven, believing that Sage was a title rather than part of his name. But since she has the power to edit her life for content, this has been retcon punched.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

== Other identities ==

Sage Nadia is also the owner and administrator of Furbid. She does not wish anyone to know this, as no one in their right mind would trust her with their money if they knew.

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:20:36Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia's viewpoint */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on. These many others are known by name as "Sage Nadia".

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement. This is perhaps due to the fact that her meaning is obvious.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

== Other identities ==

Sage Nadia is also the owner and administrator of Furbid. She does not wish anyone to know this, as no one in their right mind would trust her with their money if they knew.

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:19:35Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia's viewpoint */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on. These many others are known by name as "Sage Nadia".

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement. This is perhaps due to the fact that her meaning is obvious.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:18:02Z

75.17.251.234: /* Nadia */

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan, which heavily involved lying and deception by her own admission further in the article. However, it is also highly likely that she is simply using revisionist history to make excuses for herself. Why she chose these particular excuses is unknown.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. She took it because of former fChan moderator Sage Freehaven -- she believed the "Sage" portion of his name was a title, not realizing that Freehaven had chosen the name "Sage" as the first name for his namesake character.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:14:42Z

75.17.251.234:

{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''' (Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah) is the moniker used by the former administrator, now Overseer of [[fchan]]. Currently, due to many misunderstandings regarding her name, being taken from popular imageboard culture, she uses the moniker Nadia.

She is the author of this article. She removed 100% of all previous material and rewrote it all herself. This is her definition of objective.

== Nadia ==

Nadia is a lesbian who openly dislikes porn. She claims her avatar is a Scorpiontaur.

She was known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and also for respect for most artists, furry or not.

Her stated philosophy was that she could create a system by which a *chan style board could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the popularization of the [[DNP]] allowed for many artists who did not wish their work to be distributed to request their work be exempt from display.

Her initial plan upon taking control of fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month. She came to the conclusion that if fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones. As long as she had fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an image board could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan.

== Nadia's three step plan ==

Step one was to dominate the boards. To create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it available to any artist who wished to be placed within it able to be without question. In this manner she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better image board. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many trolls.

Step two was to disappear from the community eye. In order to achieve this, she appointed Xenofur to take her place as Administrator, but remained on board as an adviser. During this time she helped guide Xenofur, and eventually [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] into following her plan. The major factors involving tightening of the system code and board itself, trimming the DNP, and bringing on more staff to assist in policing the boards.

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. To trim staff, removing most ranks, and to trust more in the rules and in a form of structured anarchy than in the previous two steps. This step was initially created to be a safety net and was only intended to be used in the case of human error.

== Nadia's retirement ==

As part of the second step in her plan, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so she passed the job of administration over to her assistant [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time she remained on as a ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. Shortly after she removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining as an adviser to Xenofur. This included her remaining active in the administrative channel of irc and her retaining root control over the system. Xenofur was at all times aware of her access, and both had made an active decision to conceal this knowledge from the public and remainder of staff.

During this time she acted in an advisory capacity only.

== Nadia's return ==

On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the server, locking everyone including the owner out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, but no public statement has been issued.

Apparently, Nadia had decided [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]] was no longer stable enough to be trusted with administrative duties. She felt he had lost his objectivity and his flexibility. The final decision was made after Raven ordered Xenofur to remove Nadia's irc admin flag, immediately followed by his anger at Xenofur for not removing all her access. Contrary to popular rumor, it was not the removal of her flag which instigated her return as much as it was the lack of cooperation. This action led to Xenofur leaving for a week and the system being without any programmer or system guru other than Nadia to deal with any issues.

In the interests of system stability, Nadia seized control a week later.

== Sage? ==

According to Nadia, the term Sage in her original name had nothing to do with the herb or with being wise. It was taken from popular [[imageboard]] culture where the term Sage is intended to be used when there is nothing important being said and therefore no bumping of the thread occurs.

In her name, the term Sage is taken from the [[Japanese]] term 下げる, pronounced sah-geh-roo, which means ''to lower''.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan. It is considered by many to be the most controversial statement she ever made. Some consider it to be very cold and crass while many others consider it to be spot on.

To date, no individual has ever asked her to explain the meaning of her statement.

"Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find." - Sage Nadia

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

{{person-stub}}

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-02-01T02:12:41Z

75.17.251.234: /* Fchan administration */

Mousey Love Girls

2008-01-29T01:18:33Z

75.17.251.234: /* Charlene's death */

[[Image:ABetterMousetrapPortfolioCover.JPG|thumb|230px|right|Cover of "A Better Mousetrap" portfolio by Jim Hardiman and Desiree Lee]]
The '''Mousey Love Girls''', also known as the '''MLG''', are two [[female]] [[mouse]] characters that have been drawn by many different [[furry fandom]] artists, including [[Terrie Smith]], [[Brian McPherson]], [[Fatalis]], [[Jim Hardiman]] and [[Desiree Lee]].<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/MOUSEY%20LOVE%20GIRLS%20/ Mousey Love Girls] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

Charlene was depicted as a female mouse, with grey fur and blond hair, and she used to wear glasses; Lynne also as a female mouse, but with brown fur and brown hair.

They have been depicted in sexual and humorous situations with each other and with various other characters, including a blonde-haired [[badger]] named Julie. Toshe three are depicted together on a 2005 [[conbadge]] for [[Conifur Northwest]], drawn by Terrie Smith.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/Julie%20the%20Badger%20in%20our%20lives/ Julie the Badger in our lives] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== Personas ==
[[Image:MouseyLoveGirls_P&B.jpg|right|thumb|230px|The MLG dressed up as Pinky & The Brain.]]
There's a claim that the MLG are actually based on two actual [[human]] female fans by the name of '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere''' (also known as '''Char'''; Born December 25, 1956) and '''Lynne'''. Absolutely no solid proof of the existence of either has ever surfaced, despite concerted efforts and dedicated searching by a number of people, peaking at the time of Charlene's "death".

The MouseyLoveGirls [[Yahoo! Groups|Yahoo! group]] is moderated by the users [[Herbie Bear|furry_felon]] and '''mouseylovegirls''', under various user IDs.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/members?group=mod Moderators] of MouseLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref> The Yahoo! profile for "mouselovegirls3" states that it belongs to "Charlene & Lynne," residing in [[Wikipedia:Bellingham|Bellingham]], Washington, USA<ref>[http://profiles.yahoo.com/mouseylovegirls3 mouseylovegirls3's Yahoo! profile]. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== The passing of Charlene ==
[[Image:HerbieMLGPost.jpg|right|thumb|230px|Herbie's post about Charlene's death.]]
On May 19, 2007, [[Cigarskunk]] posted on his [[Furaffinity]] journal account that:
{{q|Charlene of the "Mousey Love Girls" (the blond one with the glasses) die[d] [...] of bone cancer<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/130283/ Rest in peace Mousey]. Fur Affinity journal entry by Cigarskunk. Posted May 20, 2007. Retrieved May 20, 2007.</ref>}}

On May 21, Herbie Bear posted on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! group that:
{{q|After a long 10 year battle with cancer the love of my life in this world and your Misstres of mischief Charlene [...] passed away peacefully<ref name="to">[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/message/2622 ''To All members of the Mousey Love Girls Group''], message posted May 21, 2007 by furry_felon on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>}}
The information about Charlene on Findagrave.com lists her burial her burial plot at [[Wikipedia:Bellingham, Washington|Bellingham]]'s Bayview Cemetery in Washington State.<ref>[http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] on [[wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_A_Grave|Findagrave.com]]. Record added by Herbert Rickards on May 26 2007. Retrieved June 6, 2007.</ref> Contacting the actual cemetery discovered no record of the grave mentioned on the Findagrave site, and several people proved that it was completely possible to create sites for utterly fictional people, such as a grave for the fictional wizard Dumbledore.

=== Charlene and Herb's wedding ===

Herb Bear (real name: Herb Rickards) stated that, at the request of Charlene, they had been "married in the hospital May 15th by the Hospital Chaplin with
her long time companions/lovers Lynne & Julie as bride maids". This changed her final name to '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards'''.<ref name="to"/> No record of a marriage license could be found.

=== Farewell picture commissions ===

Charlene had two images "commissioned as her farewell pict[ure]s to fandom"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557114/ RIP Mousey I - Judgement of Anubis]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref><ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557123/ RIP Mousey II - Final Journey]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref> by [[furry artist]] Terrie Smith. A third picture "was commissioned for Herb showing him passing Mousey over to [[Anubis (god)|Anubis]] for safe keeping"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557175/ RIP Mousey III - Look after her for me]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref>

== Controversy ==

A fair amount of dispute has popped up about the claim that Charlene and Lynne are actually the "personas" behind the MLG. While there have been posts made under the name of "MLG" or "Mousey Love Girls" on image-boards, there's debate as to whether the posts were made by them, or by [[Herbie Bear]] (no relation to artist [[Herbie Bearclaw]]), who's often credited with coming up with the concept of the MLG.

Requests for proof of the existence of the two women behind the MLG are usually met with dismissal,{{fact}} which only further fuels the controversy.

=== Charlene's death ===

Upon the announcement of her passing, while many offered support and well-wishes, a few mused that Herbie was doing this for attention. Some have even tried their best to prove "Charlene" never existed by checking for obituaries, birth records, and other related information. Despite a concerted effort, going through various online services as well as official channels, absolutely no information could be found to corroborate "Charlene's" existence using any of the supposedly true information Herbie Bear had provided about her name, birthdate, birthplace, death, or burial.

=== Lulz.net ===

On their weeks after her assumed death, inquire results about her existence and burial site were displayed and commented on the [[Lulz.net]] image-board. The information posted during that time would indicate so far that no woman by the name of "Charlene K. Vink-Vermere Rickards" existed, the lack of a death record or certificate, or that she was even buried at Bayview Cemetery.<ref>[http://www.mediafire.com/?1gjcpptycgd][http://www.mediafire.com/?7smmfk0yjgk][http://www.mediafire.com/?84yiwdnlqij][http://www.mediafire.com/?1dqzngtpmeg] [http://www.mediafire.com/?7vk31w04f2n] Past Lulz.net' "Charlene" threads archived as zip files at Mediafire.com. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref><ref>[http://lulz.net/furi/res/59307.html] Current thread on "Charlene" on Lulz.net. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref>

However, Sage Freehaven admitted that the same search methods and engines being used by himself to find evidence of Charlene's identity could also not find any evidence of his own identity.{{fact}}

Some individuals have reported not being able to replicate the search results offered on Lulz,{{fact}} or being able to contact the public officials mentioned on the Lulz inquires,{{fact}} dismissing the results as mere trolling.{{fact}}

==References==
The MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group can only be accessed by logged-in members.
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mouseylovegirls/ Mousey Love Girls] on Yahoo! Groups
* [http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] obituary page on [http://www.findagrave.com/ Findagrave.com]

[[Category:Mouse characters]]

Mousey Love Girls

2008-01-29T01:16:01Z

75.17.251.234: /* The passing of Charlene */

[[Image:ABetterMousetrapPortfolioCover.JPG|thumb|230px|right|Cover of "A Better Mousetrap" portfolio by Jim Hardiman and Desiree Lee]]
The '''Mousey Love Girls''', also known as the '''MLG''', are two [[female]] [[mouse]] characters that have been drawn by many different [[furry fandom]] artists, including [[Terrie Smith]], [[Brian McPherson]], [[Fatalis]], [[Jim Hardiman]] and [[Desiree Lee]].<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/MOUSEY%20LOVE%20GIRLS%20/ Mousey Love Girls] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

Charlene was depicted as a female mouse, with grey fur and blond hair, and she used to wear glasses; Lynne also as a female mouse, but with brown fur and brown hair.

They have been depicted in sexual and humorous situations with each other and with various other characters, including a blonde-haired [[badger]] named Julie. Toshe three are depicted together on a 2005 [[conbadge]] for [[Conifur Northwest]], drawn by Terrie Smith.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/Julie%20the%20Badger%20in%20our%20lives/ Julie the Badger in our lives] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== Personas ==
[[Image:MouseyLoveGirls_P&B.jpg|right|thumb|230px|The MLG dressed up as Pinky & The Brain.]]
There's a claim that the MLG are actually based on two actual [[human]] female fans by the name of '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere''' (also known as '''Char'''; Born December 25, 1956) and '''Lynne'''. Absolutely no solid proof of the existence of either has ever surfaced, despite concerted efforts and dedicated searching by a number of people, peaking at the time of Charlene's "death".

The MouseyLoveGirls [[Yahoo! Groups|Yahoo! group]] is moderated by the users [[Herbie Bear|furry_felon]] and '''mouseylovegirls''', under various user IDs.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/members?group=mod Moderators] of MouseLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref> The Yahoo! profile for "mouselovegirls3" states that it belongs to "Charlene & Lynne," residing in [[Wikipedia:Bellingham|Bellingham]], Washington, USA<ref>[http://profiles.yahoo.com/mouseylovegirls3 mouseylovegirls3's Yahoo! profile]. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== The passing of Charlene ==
[[Image:HerbieMLGPost.jpg|right|thumb|230px|Herbie's post about Charlene's death.]]
On May 19, 2007, [[Cigarskunk]] posted on his [[Furaffinity]] journal account that:
{{q|Charlene of the "Mousey Love Girls" (the blond one with the glasses) die[d] [...] of bone cancer<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/130283/ Rest in peace Mousey]. Fur Affinity journal entry by Cigarskunk. Posted May 20, 2007. Retrieved May 20, 2007.</ref>}}

On May 21, Herbie Bear posted on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! group that:
{{q|After a long 10 year battle with cancer the love of my life in this world and your Misstres of mischief Charlene [...] passed away peacefully<ref name="to">[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/message/2622 ''To All members of the Mousey Love Girls Group''], message posted May 21, 2007 by furry_felon on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>}}
The information about Charlene on Findagrave.com lists her burial her burial plot at [[Wikipedia:Bellingham, Washington|Bellingham]]'s Bayview Cemetery in Washington State.<ref>[http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] on [[wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_A_Grave|Findagrave.com]]. Record added by Herbert Rickards on May 26 2007. Retrieved June 6, 2007.</ref> Contacting the actual cemetery discovered no record of the grave mentioned on the Findagrave site, and several people proved that it was completely possible to create sites for utterly fictional people, such as a grave for the fictional wizard Dumbledore.

=== Charlene and Herb's wedding ===

Herb Bear (real name: Herb Rickards) stated that, at the request of Charlene, they had been "married in the hospital May 15th by the Hospital Chaplin with
her long time companions/lovers Lynne & Julie as bride maids". This changed her final name to '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards'''.<ref name="to"/> No record of a marriage license could be found.

=== Farewell picture commissions ===

Charlene had two images "commissioned as her farewell pict[ure]s to fandom"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557114/ RIP Mousey I - Judgement of Anubis]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref><ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557123/ RIP Mousey II - Final Journey]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref> by [[furry artist]] Terrie Smith. A third picture "was commissioned for Herb showing him passing Mousey over to [[Anubis (god)|Anubis]] for safe keeping"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557175/ RIP Mousey III - Look after her for me]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref>

== Controversy ==

A fair amount of dispute has popped up about the claim that Charlene and Lynne are actually the "personas" behind the MLG. While there have been posts made under the name of "MLG" or "Mousey Love Girls" on image-boards, there's debate as to whether the posts were made by them, or by [[Herbie Bear]] (no relation to artist [[Herbie Bearclaw]]), who's often credited with coming up with the concept of the MLG.

Requests for proof of the existence of the two women behind the MLG are usually met with dismissal,{{fact}} which only further fuels the controversy.

=== Charlene's death ===

Upon the announcement of her passing, while many offered support and well-wishes, a few mused that Herbie was doing this for attention. Some have even tried their best to prove "Charlene" never existed by checking for obituaries, birth records, and other related information.

=== Lulz.net ===

On their weeks after her assumed death, inquire results about her existence and burial site were displayed and commented on the [[Lulz.net]] image-board. The information posted during that time would indicate so far that no woman by the name of "Charlene K. Vink-Vermere Rickards" existed, the lack of a death record or certificate, or that she was even buried at Bayview Cemetery.<ref>[http://www.mediafire.com/?1gjcpptycgd][http://www.mediafire.com/?7smmfk0yjgk][http://www.mediafire.com/?84yiwdnlqij][http://www.mediafire.com/?1dqzngtpmeg] [http://www.mediafire.com/?7vk31w04f2n] Past Lulz.net' "Charlene" threads archived as zip files at Mediafire.com. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref><ref>[http://lulz.net/furi/res/59307.html] Current thread on "Charlene" on Lulz.net. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref>

However, Sage Freehaven admitted that the same search methods and engines being used by himself to find evidence of Charlene's identity could also not find any evidence of his own identity.{{fact}}

Some individuals have reported not being able to replicate the search results offered on Lulz,{{fact}} or being able to contact the public officials mentioned on the Lulz inquires,{{fact}} dismissing the results as mere trolling.{{fact}}

==References==
The MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group can only be accessed by logged-in members.
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mouseylovegirls/ Mousey Love Girls] on Yahoo! Groups
* [http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] obituary page on [http://www.findagrave.com/ Findagrave.com]

[[Category:Mouse characters]]

Mousey Love Girls

2008-01-29T01:13:39Z

75.17.251.234: /* Personas */

[[Image:ABetterMousetrapPortfolioCover.JPG|thumb|230px|right|Cover of "A Better Mousetrap" portfolio by Jim Hardiman and Desiree Lee]]
The '''Mousey Love Girls''', also known as the '''MLG''', are two [[female]] [[mouse]] characters that have been drawn by many different [[furry fandom]] artists, including [[Terrie Smith]], [[Brian McPherson]], [[Fatalis]], [[Jim Hardiman]] and [[Desiree Lee]].<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/MOUSEY%20LOVE%20GIRLS%20/ Mousey Love Girls] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

Charlene was depicted as a female mouse, with grey fur and blond hair, and she used to wear glasses; Lynne also as a female mouse, but with brown fur and brown hair.

They have been depicted in sexual and humorous situations with each other and with various other characters, including a blonde-haired [[badger]] named Julie. Toshe three are depicted together on a 2005 [[conbadge]] for [[Conifur Northwest]], drawn by Terrie Smith.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/Julie%20the%20Badger%20in%20our%20lives/ Julie the Badger in our lives] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== Personas ==
[[Image:MouseyLoveGirls_P&B.jpg|right|thumb|230px|The MLG dressed up as Pinky & The Brain.]]
There's a claim that the MLG are actually based on two actual [[human]] female fans by the name of '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere''' (also known as '''Char'''; Born December 25, 1956) and '''Lynne'''. Absolutely no solid proof of the existence of either has ever surfaced, despite concerted efforts and dedicated searching by a number of people, peaking at the time of Charlene's "death".

The MouseyLoveGirls [[Yahoo! Groups|Yahoo! group]] is moderated by the users [[Herbie Bear|furry_felon]] and '''mouseylovegirls''', under various user IDs.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/members?group=mod Moderators] of MouseLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref> The Yahoo! profile for "mouselovegirls3" states that it belongs to "Charlene & Lynne," residing in [[Wikipedia:Bellingham|Bellingham]], Washington, USA<ref>[http://profiles.yahoo.com/mouseylovegirls3 mouseylovegirls3's Yahoo! profile]. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== The passing of Charlene ==
[[Image:HerbieMLGPost.jpg|right|thumb|230px|Herbie's post about Charlene's death.]]
On May 19, 2007, [[Cigarskunk]] posted on his [[Furaffinity]] journal account that:
{{q|Charlene of the "Mousey Love Girls" (the blond one with the glasses) die[d] [...] of bone cancer<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/130283/ Rest in peace Mousey]. Fur Affinity journal entry by Cigarskunk. Posted May 20, 2007. Retrieved May 20, 2007.</ref>}}

On May 21, Herbie Bear posted on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! group that:
{{q|After a long 10 year battle with cancer the love of my life in this world and your Misstres of mischief Charlene [...] passed away peacefully<ref name="to">[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/message/2622 ''To All members of the Mousey Love Girls Group''], message posted May 21, 2007 by furry_felon on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>}}
The information about Charlene on Findagrave.com lists her burial her burial plot at [[Wikipedia:Bellingham, Washington|Bellingham]]'s Bayview Cemetery in Washington State.<ref>[http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] on [[wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_A_Grave|Findagrave.com]]. Record added by Herbert Rickards on May 26 2007. Retrieved June 6, 2007.</ref>

=== Charlene and Herb's wedding ===

Herb Bear (real name: Herb Rickards) stated that, at the request of Charlene, they had been "married in the hospital May 15th by the Hospital Chaplin with
her long time companions/lovers Lynne & Julie as bride maids". This changed her final name to '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards'''.<ref name="to"/>

=== Farewell picture commissions ===

Charlene had two images "commissioned as her farewell pict[ure]s to fandom"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557114/ RIP Mousey I - Judgement of Anubis]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref><ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557123/ RIP Mousey II - Final Journey]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref> by [[furry artist]] Terrie Smith. A third picture "was commissioned for Herb showing him passing Mousey over to [[Anubis (god)|Anubis]] for safe keeping"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557175/ RIP Mousey III - Look after her for me]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref>

== Controversy ==

A fair amount of dispute has popped up about the claim that Charlene and Lynne are actually the "personas" behind the MLG. While there have been posts made under the name of "MLG" or "Mousey Love Girls" on image-boards, there's debate as to whether the posts were made by them, or by [[Herbie Bear]] (no relation to artist [[Herbie Bearclaw]]), who's often credited with coming up with the concept of the MLG.

Requests for proof of the existence of the two women behind the MLG are usually met with dismissal,{{fact}} which only further fuels the controversy.

=== Charlene's death ===

Upon the announcement of her passing, while many offered support and well-wishes, a few mused that Herbie was doing this for attention. Some have even tried their best to prove "Charlene" never existed by checking for obituaries, birth records, and other related information.

=== Lulz.net ===

On their weeks after her assumed death, inquire results about her existence and burial site were displayed and commented on the [[Lulz.net]] image-board. The information posted during that time would indicate so far that no woman by the name of "Charlene K. Vink-Vermere Rickards" existed, the lack of a death record or certificate, or that she was even buried at Bayview Cemetery.<ref>[http://www.mediafire.com/?1gjcpptycgd][http://www.mediafire.com/?7smmfk0yjgk][http://www.mediafire.com/?84yiwdnlqij][http://www.mediafire.com/?1dqzngtpmeg] [http://www.mediafire.com/?7vk31w04f2n] Past Lulz.net' "Charlene" threads archived as zip files at Mediafire.com. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref><ref>[http://lulz.net/furi/res/59307.html] Current thread on "Charlene" on Lulz.net. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref>

However, Sage Freehaven admitted that the same search methods and engines being used by himself to find evidence of Charlene's identity could also not find any evidence of his own identity.{{fact}}

Some individuals have reported not being able to replicate the search results offered on Lulz,{{fact}} or being able to contact the public officials mentioned on the Lulz inquires,{{fact}} dismissing the results as mere trolling.{{fact}}

==References==
The MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group can only be accessed by logged-in members.
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mouseylovegirls/ Mousey Love Girls] on Yahoo! Groups
* [http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] obituary page on [http://www.findagrave.com/ Findagrave.com]

[[Category:Mouse characters]]

Mousey Love Girls

2008-01-29T01:13:15Z

75.17.251.234: /* Personas */

[[Image:ABetterMousetrapPortfolioCover.JPG|thumb|230px|right|Cover of "A Better Mousetrap" portfolio by Jim Hardiman and Desiree Lee]]
The '''Mousey Love Girls''', also known as the '''MLG''', are two [[female]] [[mouse]] characters that have been drawn by many different [[furry fandom]] artists, including [[Terrie Smith]], [[Brian McPherson]], [[Fatalis]], [[Jim Hardiman]] and [[Desiree Lee]].<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/MOUSEY%20LOVE%20GIRLS%20/ Mousey Love Girls] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

Charlene was depicted as a female mouse, with grey fur and blond hair, and she used to wear glasses; Lynne also as a female mouse, but with brown fur and brown hair.

They have been depicted in sexual and humorous situations with each other and with various other characters, including a blonde-haired [[badger]] named Julie. Toshe three are depicted together on a 2005 [[conbadge]] for [[Conifur Northwest]], drawn by Terrie Smith.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/files/Julie%20the%20Badger%20in%20our%20lives/ Julie the Badger in our lives] in the "Files" section of the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== Personas ==
[[Image:MouseyLoveGirls_P&B.jpg|right|thumb|230px|The MLG dressed up as Pinky & The Brain.]]
There's a claim that the MLG are actually based on two actual [[human]] female fans by the name of '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere''' (also known as '''Char'''; Born December 25, 1956) and '''Lynne'''. Absolutely no solid proof of the existence of either has ever surfaced, despite concerted efforts and dedicated searching by a number of people, peaking at the time of Charlene's death.

The MouseyLoveGirls [[Yahoo! Groups|Yahoo! group]] is moderated by the users [[Herbie Bear|furry_felon]] and '''mouseylovegirls''', under various user IDs.<ref>[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/members?group=mod Moderators] of MouseLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref> The Yahoo! profile for "mouselovegirls3" states that it belongs to "Charlene & Lynne," residing in [[Wikipedia:Bellingham|Bellingham]], Washington, USA<ref>[http://profiles.yahoo.com/mouseylovegirls3 mouseylovegirls3's Yahoo! profile]. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>

== The passing of Charlene ==
[[Image:HerbieMLGPost.jpg|right|thumb|230px|Herbie's post about Charlene's death.]]
On May 19, 2007, [[Cigarskunk]] posted on his [[Furaffinity]] journal account that:
{{q|Charlene of the "Mousey Love Girls" (the blond one with the glasses) die[d] [...] of bone cancer<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/130283/ Rest in peace Mousey]. Fur Affinity journal entry by Cigarskunk. Posted May 20, 2007. Retrieved May 20, 2007.</ref>}}

On May 21, Herbie Bear posted on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! group that:
{{q|After a long 10 year battle with cancer the love of my life in this world and your Misstres of mischief Charlene [...] passed away peacefully<ref name="to">[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouseyLoveGirls/message/2622 ''To All members of the Mousey Love Girls Group''], message posted May 21, 2007 by furry_felon on the MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group. Retrieved May 24, 2007.</ref>}}
The information about Charlene on Findagrave.com lists her burial her burial plot at [[Wikipedia:Bellingham, Washington|Bellingham]]'s Bayview Cemetery in Washington State.<ref>[http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] on [[wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_A_Grave|Findagrave.com]]. Record added by Herbert Rickards on May 26 2007. Retrieved June 6, 2007.</ref>

=== Charlene and Herb's wedding ===

Herb Bear (real name: Herb Rickards) stated that, at the request of Charlene, they had been "married in the hospital May 15th by the Hospital Chaplin with
her long time companions/lovers Lynne & Julie as bride maids". This changed her final name to '''Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards'''.<ref name="to"/>

=== Farewell picture commissions ===

Charlene had two images "commissioned as her farewell pict[ure]s to fandom"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557114/ RIP Mousey I - Judgement of Anubis]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref><ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557123/ RIP Mousey II - Final Journey]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref> by [[furry artist]] Terrie Smith. A third picture "was commissioned for Herb showing him passing Mousey over to [[Anubis (god)|Anubis]] for safe keeping"<ref>[http://www.furaffinity.net/view/557175/ RIP Mousey III - Look after her for me]. Posted to Fur Affinity by Cigarskunk on May 20, 2007.</ref>

== Controversy ==

A fair amount of dispute has popped up about the claim that Charlene and Lynne are actually the "personas" behind the MLG. While there have been posts made under the name of "MLG" or "Mousey Love Girls" on image-boards, there's debate as to whether the posts were made by them, or by [[Herbie Bear]] (no relation to artist [[Herbie Bearclaw]]), who's often credited with coming up with the concept of the MLG.

Requests for proof of the existence of the two women behind the MLG are usually met with dismissal,{{fact}} which only further fuels the controversy.

=== Charlene's death ===

Upon the announcement of her passing, while many offered support and well-wishes, a few mused that Herbie was doing this for attention. Some have even tried their best to prove "Charlene" never existed by checking for obituaries, birth records, and other related information.

=== Lulz.net ===

On their weeks after her assumed death, inquire results about her existence and burial site were displayed and commented on the [[Lulz.net]] image-board. The information posted during that time would indicate so far that no woman by the name of "Charlene K. Vink-Vermere Rickards" existed, the lack of a death record or certificate, or that she was even buried at Bayview Cemetery.<ref>[http://www.mediafire.com/?1gjcpptycgd][http://www.mediafire.com/?7smmfk0yjgk][http://www.mediafire.com/?84yiwdnlqij][http://www.mediafire.com/?1dqzngtpmeg] [http://www.mediafire.com/?7vk31w04f2n] Past Lulz.net' "Charlene" threads archived as zip files at Mediafire.com. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref><ref>[http://lulz.net/furi/res/59307.html] Current thread on "Charlene" on Lulz.net. Retrieved June 27th, 2007</ref>

However, Sage Freehaven admitted that the same search methods and engines being used by himself to find evidence of Charlene's identity could also not find any evidence of his own identity.{{fact}}

Some individuals have reported not being able to replicate the search results offered on Lulz,{{fact}} or being able to contact the public officials mentioned on the Lulz inquires,{{fact}} dismissing the results as mere trolling.{{fact}}

==References==
The MouseyLoveGirls Yahoo! Group can only be accessed by logged-in members.
<references/>

==External links==
* [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mouseylovegirls/ Mousey Love Girls] on Yahoo! Groups
* [http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Rickards&GSfn=Charlene&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=2007&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=19538036& Charlene K. Vink-Vermere-Rickards] obituary page on [http://www.findagrave.com/ Findagrave.com]

[[Category:Mouse characters]]

Herb Rickards

2008-01-29T01:09:50Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Herbie Bear''', also known as '''Herb Bear''' and '''Furry Felon''', is the [[fursona]] of [[furry fan]] '''Herb Rickards'''. He is also the creator and roleplayer of the "Mousie Love Girls", a fictional set of mice, one of whom he "killed off" in a bid for attention, sparking off a furious flurry of activity in which absolutely no proof that the person Herbie had claimed he knew and married had ever existed. He is located in Washington state, U.S.A.

{{person-stub}}
[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Bear characters]]
[[Category:Washington]]

Jim Groat

2008-01-29T01:05:05Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Jim Groat''' (known as '''Rabbi_Tom''' on [[FurryMUCK]]) is the founder, [[writer]] and [[Wikipedia:Line art|line artist]] behind the ''[[West Corner Of the Park (comic)|West Corner Of the Park]]''. He is the creator of the characters [[Red Shetland]] and [[Equine the Uncivilized]], published (since 1985) under his independent publishing label [[GraphXPress]]. He has also done commercial art for others, including work for the [[Wikipedia:GURPS|GURPS]] version of [[Bunnies & Burrows]].

Jim was a [[guest of honor]] at [[ConFurence 1]] (1990), [[Albany Anthrocon 1998]], and [[Rocket City FurMeet#2004|Rocket City FurMeet 2004]]. Many complain about his presence at conventions, due to his apparent tendency to allow his children to run amok and unsupervised, shrugging off the complaints of other convention-goers that have had their goods damaged or destroyed. He is the namesake of the [[Groatish Mauling]].

Jim resides in [[Wikipedia:Madison, Wisconsin|Madison, Wisconsin, U.S.A.]] with his wife [[Hakeber|Rebekah]] and their two children John and Marguerite. He is a member of the [[Lake Area Furry Friends]].

== External links ==

* [http://www.graphxpress.com/ Jim Groat's home page]
* [http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Jim-Groat/ Jim Groat] at [[VCL]]
* ''[http://www.livejournal.com/users/krag_carbine/ From the demented mind]'' - Jim's [[LiveJournal]]
* [http://www.macrophile.com/~rogue/groat/ Jim's illustrations] of [[Rogue]]

[[Category:People]][[Category:Comic artists]]
[[Category:Anthrocon guests of honor]]
[[Category:ConFurence guests of honor]]
[[Category:Rocket City FurMeet guests of honor]]
[[Category:Rocket City FurMeet staff]]
[[Category:LAFFurs]]
[[Category:Wisconsin]]

Jeremy Bernal

2008-01-29T01:02:48Z

75.17.251.234: /* Controversy */

'''Jeremy Bernal''' (previously known as '''Cullen''') is a [[furry artist]] whose specialty is [[furotica]]. His art style tends to the realistic, with highly detailed fur texture and shading, appropriate shading for his character's musculatures, well-detailed and expressive faces, and other such fine attention to detail.

He is the founder and administrator of the [[wikipedia:Paysite|paysite]] furry gallery [[SexyFur]]; before that, he was best known for a set of Photoshop tutorials on his [[FurNation]] site (no longer available.) His signature characters are the [[female]] furry [[character]]s [[Sasha]], [[Gunbunny]], and [[Champagne]].

==Controversy==

In July 2006, Jeremy Bernal filed two [[wikipedia:DMCA|DMCAs]] against former image-board, [[WTFur]], for reposting non-distributable media (especially artwork from SexyFur) on their boards<ref>DMCA Notices to WTFur [http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/view.php?id=6] and [http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/view.php?id=7] (links currently dead)</ref>. His work is currently the only work banned from the site, now known as [[Lulz.net]], as they have otherwise rejected the concept of a [[Do Not Post]] list.

This tendency to threaten legal action before utilizing any other channel has earned him an extremely negative reputation. Many also consider him to be a hypocrite, as he often claims that his legal efforts are "protecting artist's rights" at large and for all artists; however, he only ever vies to have his own material removed, seeming to indicate that he does in fact only care about his own interests.

==References==
<references />

== External links ==
* [http://www.furnation.com/Cullen/ Jeremy's site on FurNation] (currently closed)

{{person-stub}}
[[Category:People]][[Category:Artists]]

Jim Hardiman

2008-01-29T00:57:37Z

75.17.251.234:

'''Jim Hardiman''' is creator of the popular ''[[Skunkworks]]'' comic, featuring three sassy young skunk girls and their mischief. Usually the stories were of a pornographic nature, but done with such humor and wit that Hardiman quickly became a hit. The girls are often shown as being exhibitionists, and their antics frequently get them into trouble, along with making life hell for Jim. He also created ''[[The Ups and Downs]]'', a series that appeared in Genus and then later in an independently published form. After a few successful years, he developed eye problems relating to [[Wikipedia:diabetes mellitus|diabetes]] and had to stop attending [[convention]]s. Fans missed him so much that money was raised to pay his medical bills.

Several charities and even a comic book benefit from [[Radio Comix]] gave testament to his vast popularity, but he has yet to make a comeback, although he occasionally posts new works in various imageboards when time and health permit. His close friend (and rumored alter-ego) [[Desiree Lee]] continues to create ''[[By The Tail]]'' with his characters.

When he has new works (his or Desiree's) to share with the public, Mr. Hardiman posts them to his [[Skunkworks]] mailing list, and often (to prevent others from doing so) also posts the public works on sites such as [[Fchan]]. He also occasionally draws "cub art" under an alternate name, though he denies this is him, despite the art styles being identical and having admitted to living in close proximity to this supposed other artist.

He has also used some questionable tactics to advertise his art in the past. At one point he did a series of "alternate versions" of his skunk characters in various other "styles" that either subtly or overtly mocked various other artists and trends in the fandom. One considered by many to be juvenile and perhaps telling was one in which the female skunks were instead drawn as stereotypical gay males, with the text that seemed designed to play on the "queer fear" of straight male fans, mocking homosexuals and promising that there would never be such taint to Skunkworks.

James lives in Florida and enjoys motorcycles.

== References ==

* ''[http://www.flayrah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=795 Help Jim Hardiman!]'' - a post on [[Flayrah]]

== External links ==

* [http://www.skunked.com/ Skunked.com] - art website.
* [http://www.rabbitvalley.com/department_1369_0_0.html Jim Hardiman's ''Skunkworks''] at [[Rabbit Valley]]
* ''[[Skunkworks Reflections]]'': [https://radiocomixstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_31&products_id=305 tribute comic book] and [http://www.radiocomix.com/reflections.html announcement] at [[Radio Comix]]
* [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SkunkworksAMA/ SkunkworksAMA] - The Skunkworks fan-group mailing list

[[Category:People]][[Category:Comic artists]][[Category:Florida]]