WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Talk:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland

2007-03-15T20:14:16Z

70.88.54.98: /* Controversy Revert (Spirou) */

I [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Jeremy%2C_the_Duke_of_Otterland&diff=69472&oldid=69458 added] the quote back to the article because it establishes that the subject has a history of trolling on LiveJournal. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed the quote because I'm *not* a troll, and you're just trying to blackmail me.

For those who are trying to blackmail me, quit it; one little incident does *not* make a person a troll.

:First, I'll get the policy stuff out of the way so as to avoid any future misunderstandings:
# Please do not remove other peoples' comments from talk pages. Talk pages contain the history of how an article came and the discussions surrounding it, and are considered a valuable resource that goes along with an article.
# Second, please do not remove text from an article without explanation. That is frowned upon here, and any such changes will almost always be reverted by an admin. That goes for an article, not just this one. If you have an issue with something an article, you should explain on the article's talk page.

:Now, as for the article itself. There seems to be some confusion here as to what "blackmail" really means. Blackmail is [[WikiPedia:Blackmail|defined as]] "the act of threatening to reveal information about a person ... [unless certain demands are met]". That's not the case here. I am not threatening to release any information, I am actively releasing such information, and I am not trying to extort anything from you in the process.

:I feel the quote is appropriate to list here, because not only is it something that you did in fact say, but you [http://duke-otterland.livejournal.com/profile state on your LJ] that you will not tolerate things such as "destructive criticism", "uncivil debate". However, the quote is an exmaple of you doing something which you adamantly claim to be against. I feel that it makes it especially worthy for inclusion in this article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:41, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I know you have some sort of vendetta against me because I made that post, and I'm sorry and will never do it again, I just wish you had been more honest in your User Info that you would post things like that...

:Pretend you're me. You make a post in your LJ, and some random person who you have never heard of before shows up and replies with insults. How would you feel? How do you think I felt when I saw that? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 20:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd ban you from my LJ.

:OK, guys. I've added it in as a reference, not a quote, as I believe it applies specifically to the political side of things. I would note that politics is an area where people often have deeply-held beliefs which may not bring out their best sides when they come into contact with those of the opposite persuasion. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.

I deleted my comment from Giza's LJ entry, so is that link to his entry still relevant?
-Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland

Look, there was absolutely no excuse for what I did in Harli's LJ. I was a complete jerk who grossly overreacted to a post that wasn't even remotely offensive, and completely regret the day I said what I did then. If I could go back in time and prevent myself from saying that, I would gladly do so. I don't want what is posted to Encyclopedia Dramatica blackball me for the rest of my life when I look for a job one day, as I have done my online writing and art only under my pseudonym. So if any of you know anything I can do to get that ED article toned down or removed entirely, please help me. Thanks. --[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 20:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

== Controversy section? ==

Given recent events, namely that 1) the subject of this article has been showing up in the Encyclopedia Dramatica IRC channels demanding that they take down their article about him (and being slightly unclear on how "free speech" works), as well as 2) recent harassment directed at him (publishing of his home address and phone number, breaking into some of his accounts, etc.), do folks think it would be worthwhile to start a "controversy" section in the article?

Keep in mind that such a section wouldn't necessarily be to cast blame on the subject of the article, but rather to document actions taken by both parties in the dispute. Thoughts? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 23:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

:I vote in favor. May his behavior and the consequences to such be an example. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 23:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

::Ditto Downspin. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 23:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
::Downspin, your comment lends a vigilante legitimacy to the actions of his provocateur. No one deserves harassing phone calls for acting like a fool on IRC. What he did was not acceptable, but neither were the actions of his provocateur. Like I said below, give him one last chance. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 00:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:I would like to wait a few days or a week or so to see what happens. He deleted his LJ here within the last 24 hours, and may be attempting to extricate himself from this mess once and for all. Should that be the case, I think it would be wise just let all of this go and allow him to get on with his life. I think that we need to give some consideration to documenting this kind of stuff here, both now and in the future, rather than blindly documenting every random drama episode. Personally, I think documenting it lends legitimacy to (foolish, IMHO) actions of both sides. We ''are'' after all, the furry version of Wikipedia, and with that comes some credible authority on matters of the fandom. Let's use it wisely. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 00:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:''Postscript'': If he continues to allow himself to be provoked by the ED crowd, by all means, go ahead and write it up in the article. I am simply arguing for giving him a last chance of sorts.

:: I'm cool with waiting for a week or even longer. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 01:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:My $0.02: if the precedent is going to be that infamous furries, to an extent, lose their right to privacy (e.g., [[Sibe]]'s ED-esque article), then the standard should be applied across the board, namely, here. I vote in favor with an additional request for policy clarification as this circumstance is not fully documented in the help policies. :3 [[User:Leam|Leam]] 19:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
:Just out of curiousity, is there any status on whether or not a tasteful controversy section is acceptable? Since the 3rd of January, there has been another Arbchat and 2 DMCAs, which would qualify as still "allowing himself to be provoked by the ED crowd." [[User:Leam|Leam]] 00:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

::Frankly, I don't see why not, as long as its a) tasteful, 2) it's written objectively and with a neutral point of view and iii) it is fair to both parties, especially the article subject. A controversy section is not a place to air out grievances, but rather chronicle significant happenings regarding this person that may be considered controversial. Tread carefully. This will be scrutinized heavily as do most other "controversy sections" and if it seems like it's going the wrong way, it may be deleted if an administrator deems fit. Above all, be nice.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 00:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
:::Added. I couldn't put an actual Encyclopedia Dramatica link in for some reason, which I will be investigating. Tinyurl will have to do for now. [[User:Leam|Leam]] 23:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

== College? ==

4 Associate degrees at age 22? Plus this seems to suggest he is pursuing two different bachelor's degree programs at two different universities. I'm not doubting him, but wow... that's a hell of a lot. I'm just doublechecking the accuracies of this.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 00:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:That reminds me... assuming that the [http://tinyurl.com/ewzn8 article] about him on Encyclopedia Dramatica is accurate, he is apparently "disabled" to the point of getting Social Security benefits. This makes me skeptical about his academic claims. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I would not assume anything on ED is accurate. I would assume just the opposite. [[Image:Tycon.jpg]][[User:Coyoty|Coyoty]] 07:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::From what I understand, he is autistic. Perhaps that gives him a certain level of genius? Think Rain Man.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 00:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I think he has [[wikipedia:Asperger's Syndrome|Asperger's Syndrome]]. From what I've seen of him and my familiarity with the condition, it seems a rather severe case. So pretty close to autism. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 01:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::That is, specifically, a form of autism. I know of no cases of Savant Syndrome, another form, expressing alongside Asperger's. Even if he was so afflicted, I still find it highly unlikely he could earn four two year degrees in under four years, write a novel, and participate in so much drama. I wouldn't say he lies, but it's more likely he's shaping reality to fit his fantasy. --[[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 01:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::Just lay off him a bit, okay? You are unnecessarily rough. As for what AS is exactly, you should read the Wikipedia link. It's not as simple as a "form of autism". [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 01:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Roughness is unintended. I was merely perusing his article and pondering some of the accuracy of the content, is all. It seems, well, extraordinary. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 02:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::::I wasn't referring to you, but rather our friend Downspin here. Sorry for any confusion. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::Ok, agreed. But rough as it may sound, it DOES seem to be a valid point. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 02:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, you're right. '''You''' have a point. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 02:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::I checked this info. he has attended colledge and Written two books. as for the levels he suggest, I don't think he's trying to lie... but whatever. also, he has mild/moderate Autism, that would give him a lead in writing and help in colledge. he sounds like my bother. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:::::So what do we want to do regarding this? As many associate degrees in as many years is pretty farfetched. I don't know how Autism and/or Asperger's can aid him in that as I'm severely undereducated on those afflictions. Wikifur should be all about veracity, therefore is there a way we can verify his multiple degrees, while at the same time his enrollment at the two colleges?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 20:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::I've personally never seen his claim to four degrees in four years, I do remember noticing he'd been to quite a lot of schools...looked like he did the common community college->state university route IIRC, which IMHO isn't indicative of someone who could earn four associate degrees in four years. If you ask me, the burden of proof should be on him (or whoever made the original claim). If he can't or won't prove it to us, the claims should be removed or at least the lack of verification documented. As for the AS/autism angle, many people with AS are smarter than average but I don't see it as being so much of an aid that his claim shouldn't be questioned. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 20:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::It's on the page, plus it was on his profile and so many other places too.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 21:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::::[http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Jeremy%2C_the_Duke_of_Otterland&diff=82509&oldid=82508 Here] is where he makes his claim and around this time he picks up an additional associate's degree and certification. This boy is crackin' if he's getting that stuff.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 22:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

== Apology ==

There was absolutely no excuse for my asinine behavior in LiveJournal, for saying that harli_raver, liberals, and gays belong in concentration camps, for saying MoveOn is retarded, and so forth, and I sincerely apologize. However, I believe that posting personal information about me and hacking my LiveJournal is wrong as well and would like that Encyclopedia Dramatica article removed entirely. Thanks.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 15:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:Does this look like ED to you? Stop complaining to '''us''' about the ED article about you. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 16:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

::<Big> IGNORE THEM </big> they will go away when you stop making it fun for them. also, they didn't "hack" your account, they guessed your password. I went over there and they said that they gave a warning to the guy who did that, but they did'nt want to get rid of the info unless there was a serious privacy violation (like your street address). all you're doing is riling them up. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:::<nowiki>*clears throat*</nowiki> I have been saying this all along. Yes, '''please''' ignore them. It's the ''only'' way to make them stop. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 17:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::::Ignore somebody who wants to send me off to a concentration camp?! Several responses come to mind; "ignore" isn't one of them. {{unsigned|62.64.167.169}}
::::: I think the "ignore" comment was directed at Duke Otterland, actually. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 19:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::: Correct. I am trying to tell Duke Otterland how to make the ED trolls stop bothering him. Frankly, the more I read about his behavior and comments (like the gays-in-concetration-camps thing), the less inclined I am to defend and/or help him. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 23:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay. I have looked at the ED article history, as well as the talk page. Looks like there's a lot here I don't know about, especially since his journal is gone now (apparently it was banned or some such by LJ and not deleted by him). From what I can tell, he said something fairly nasty to [[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] on his journal. So I'm no longer comfortable defending him, despite my understanding of the difficulties of AS. I apologize for not researching the history of this mess before getting involved. I see no reason not to believe much of the factual information in the ED article and talk page. So to change my position above, I would give a tentative yea to the Dmuth's original idea. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 23:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:How bad do you have to be to actually get banned by LiveJournal? Considering I've seen some pretty fucked up shit, not to mention raunchy. Trolls thrive on LJ. I had thought that he had just deleted his journal to hide from everyone or so no one else would get it. --[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 01:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::I suspect his lj was deleted by the staff because it was compromised...-[[User:SkippFox|SkippFox]] 01:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I deleted my own LiveJournal and requested it to be suspended, thank you very much.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 04:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

:::sounds right... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
::::Never seen it done before. Spoke to him. He said he was going to discontinue his LJ and he had suspended it. I suggested to him nicely stronger password security. Varied capitalization and nonalphanumeric characters and acronyms. Let's just put it this way. He doesn't take advice well. His behaviour only seems to reinforce what the article suggests as well as Dmuth and Simba. I give my support to Dmuth's idea.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 01:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::<s>Sounds like he made it seem like he was responsible for the suspension. In the vein of shaping reality, read the message returned by Livejournal [http://duke-otterland.livejournal.com/profile here] and tell me what you think. I come away with the impression it was suspended by LJ and not him. I thought that users were only capable of the 30-day delete then purge function of LJ. But I've only been on LJ since September so I don't know all the features, to be sure. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 12:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)</s> Should have read Duke Otterland's comment above...

I am curious how someone could hack into a LiveJournal account other than brute force password cracking. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 13:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

:that's what we've all been saying, the "illegal" thing is that they posted private info. '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
::Is it an incredibly asinine thing to do? Yes. Is it illegal? Doubtful. Although you seem to already have this idea as you put illegal in quotes. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 20:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:::It might be illegal if you consider it libel?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 21:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::::I thought libel had to be untrue claims about a person. And a cursory glance at [[wikipedia:Libel|Wikipedia]] seems to back that up. I don't see how phone numbers, street addresses, and so on could ''ever'' be considered defamatory under that definition. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 21:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::It's not defamation. It's an invasion of privacy, but that's not actually illegal (unless we're talking things like credit card numbers and your SSN, which have specific protections). Nor is it illegal to state something something untrue that a reasonable person would not believe, as if nobody believes it, no hurt has resulted (the question is what they ''would'' believe, and that's a question for the courts). The same protections are actually used by WikiFur - as long as we remain truthful or at least take reasonable steps to try and establish that truth (that is, we don't maliciously post lies about people with the knowledge that they are true), we can publish what we want. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::::it is the posting of private info that was obtained in an (I forget the word... ^. .^;;;) way, and they then used it in a deframitory way. I also bet that if we brought this to a judge he would be annoyed that they are using his disability for thier own entertainment, which is disgracefull, especially when an """ADULT""" does it. I'm pretty sure that it is somewhat unlawfull, of course, I wouldn't take it to court... '''- ''[[user:cchristianTehWazzit|cchristian]]'' [[user talk:cchristianTehWazzit|talk]]'''
:::::A couple of things relavent to the conversation:
:::::1) Truth is an absolute defense against any charge of defamation. If the address and phone number they posted were true, then no defamation has occured. Whether it's harassment or not is an entirely different issue. They fact that at least one harassing phone call was made to him could give him a case for proving harassment, however.
:::::2) Re: his autism, again, if it's true, then there is no defamation. Also, if memory serves, he himself has made the claim of being autistic, so I'm fairly certain that no privacy laws which pertain to medical records would have been violated, since the patience himself disclosed that he had the condition of autism.
:::::--[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::Look, I know that you think too highly of yourself to realize that that ED article about me was wrong and inflammatory, even if some of it might've been true, but it was wrong to post all those details, including especially sensitive personal details, all my former LiveJournal posts, and Friends-only posts I made to various communites, and so forth. I've repeatedly apologized to you over and over, but no, you went behind my back and contributed to ED nonetheless. Please don't be such a big baby and let's just get over, please? Yes, what I did in your LJ back then was wrong, but so is your backstabbing me; it was just *one* incident in your LJ, after all, and I've since not trolled you. And for your information, Central Texas College, from which I got my Associate Degrees and Certifications, *is* an accredited college, thank you very much. And fine, I'll keep my LJ link in my article.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 21:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Issues regarding ED has no place here in WikiFur, nor do your words for Dmuth. [[WikiFur:What_WikiFur_is_not#WikiFur_is_not_a_battleground|WikiFur is not a battleground]]. Contact him privately regarding these matters. As for your schooling, we have just been trying to figure out how you've gone to multiple colleges, acquired multiple Associate's Degrees in less than 4 years. We're not disproving your claim, we find it to be a little dubious, that's all.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 22:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
::::::::Okay, I won't mention ED anymore. By the way, I didn't get my degrees from different colleges, I got them from the *same* college, which is, as I've said, accredited.--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 22:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::We're not doubting the accredition of your school. What boggles most of our minds here is that you have 4 associates degrees in as many years. I'm not going to even mention how expensive that is ($40,000 per associate degree from CTC, I looked it up), especially in Texas, but your article also shows you pursuing seperate degree programs at Central Texas College and Tarleton. How on earth did you manage 4 2-3 year programs of study (we're discounting the Certifications, those are so freaking simple to have (has 3 himself)) in less than 4 years after graduating high school? On top of that, writing novels and devoting as much time to video games, books, furry as your LiveJournal suggests it has. Either you're insanely gifted or you're exaggerating just a bit. Given the nature of this place and the people you're talking to, honestly what do you think?--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 23:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

::::::: Oh, I'm not pissed at you because of that single incident in my LJ. What I have issue with is that fact that you seem to have no problem dishing out caustic statements (such as ones you've made about gays, for example), but seem to be totally unable of accepting any form of criticism in return. Your showing up in ED's IRC channel and demanding that they remove the article about you is a good example.
::::::: Freedom of speech works both ways - if you choose to go around and offend people (which is your legal right), be prepared to have them criticise you in return (which is ''their'' legal right). If you don't like the fact that people are criticising you, than may I suggest that you knock it off with some of the nastier comments? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::: Uh, I've stopped making those nastier comments, and for your information, I didn't *mean* what I had said, and I know it's very, very easy for some people to take things I say the wrong way. I realize I'm not immune to criticism, and from now on if someone sends me something nasty I'll just ignore it. How would you feel, by the way, if you unintentionally said something nasty and people began posting nasty stuff about you all across the Internet?--[[User:Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland|Jeremy, the Duke of Otterland]] 04:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, it's a heartfelt apology, but the whole I didn't mean it schtick I NEVER buy from anyone. When you typed whatever you said, you meant every word of it, whether it was to intentionally attack him or someone else or just trying to stir the pot. I've read some of what you post. There IS no right way to take ANY of what you say. For example, the infamous gay concentration camp. How are you supposed to take that the right way? And you can't unintentionally say something like that. I think you need to look inward and reevaluate yourself, your inner values. It's good to ignore things, it's a step in the right direction. As for the Internet, oops, oh, well. Jeremy, you've done yourself a favor and gotten painted a furry Internet celebrity. Perhaps that was your plan all along. And celebrity comes with a price. Just go to the supermarket today and read all the rags at the checkout lane. Nasty stuff, eh? It's no different here. When you figure out how to avoid shit like that, then you go ahead and tell Hollywood. There are plenty of actors who would like to know. Otherwise, tough it up, maybe have a laugh or two. And don't take the Internet so seriously.--[[User:KendricksRedtail|Kendricks Redtail]] 14:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::I know the cases you mean. Was it, though? How are we to know it was not just culled from public sources, like LiveJournal posts? I'm not suggesting it's something we want to publish here, of course. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 21:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

== Sphinx ==

Your fursona has always looked close to a sphinx to me. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 22:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:Um, the useful purpose in saying that was what again? Given the subject of this article's sensitivity, I'd like to know what your purpose was in saying that if it wasn't just to stir up the pot. [[User:Simba B|Simba B]] 23:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::I don't see how that could be taken wrongly. [[User:Tretonin|Tretonin]] 23:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

== Controversy Revert (Spirou) ==

Talk thus far suggests that the section is appropriate. If you think otherwise, I suggest a vote. Is there Wikifur policy on this kind of controversy? [[User:Leam|Leam]] 00:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are more than a few people in fandom that are racist, homophobic, rude, crass, or just plain crazy. Again, unless it's widely know or notorious (...and this views of his only seem to graze appearance in ED, a few LJs [of people not keen of Jeremy,] and the classic places were his antics fuel the evening talks [4chan, 7chan, etc,...] plus, your addition,) it doesn't warrant a "Controversy" section.

:Stupidity and lack of social manners a controversy does not make,... Is that were the case, more entries on this Wiki would be have lengthy "Controversy" sections.

:But, If you wish, will put up for a vote. Make your case, present the reference, and put it up for decision [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 02:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

::I think part of the reason why there is interest in a controversy section isn't because of Jeremy Gallen's alleged homophobic remarks and the alleged lack of social skills, but rather because he seems to have a history of trying to cover up these behaviors. Deleting his incendiary comments from other peoples' LiveJournals (like mine), storming into ED's IRC channel and demanding that the article about him be taken down, (ab)using the DMCA to have the article be removed, etc. It all adds up to a case of someone who can dish it out, but can't take it. </rant> --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 04:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
::That, and the drama at one point spilt over from Wikifur to ED, 4chan, 7chan, SA, FA, a good chunk of the furry LJs, and probably a few that even I don't know about. Several hundred furries are not an insignificant number. I will have said references up by this weekend or Monday. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 20:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
::I would also like to point out that there are less-notable controversy sections that exist here; if Wikifur is to document the furry fandom, it needs to a) acknowledge how much inevitable drama it will document; b) state where the line is to be drawn; c) be consistent about sticking this standard the [[Sibe]] Pandora's box brought about. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 20:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Leam/Clean up okay

2006-08-14T23:44:38Z

70.88.54.98: FFFFFFF I'M A HELPER ~~~~

=List of Articles for Staff to Cleanup=

[[Postvixen]]

Talk:Adjectivecat

2006-07-11T18:28:03Z

70.88.54.98: /* Sub-headings? */

oopps ^_^ [[User:Leam|Leam]] 03:04, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== personal website category ==

"This article isn't *about* a personal website . . . maybe it _is_ one, but that isn't what the category is about (perhaps it should be?)" - GR

I see what you mean; the category is a bit ambiguous. The article isn't about Leam.com. Thanks. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 20:52, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Sub-headings? ==

If there's too many logical subheadings, a reader can always click the Hide button. I fail to see how forced hierarchy, even if slightly unpretty, is a problem. [[User:Leam|Leam]] 23:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

:I don't think it's the length or sub-headings that are the source of the cleanup template. Looking the article over, I'd say it's the informal layout of the content, such as the "Namedroppingz" section - these are often best left on a user page, where they're not held up to encyclopedia standards. [[User:SpazKitty|Spaz Kitty]] 23:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

::I wasn't aware that these pages were intended to be all that formal. Indeed, many of the ones I come across here are not. If all articles should be formal, the style guide should specify this. I can try to formalize it a bit, but in all honesty, this isn't Wikipedia, and I don't see anything really in conflict with the local style guide. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 18:28, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Sacfurs

2006-03-23T22:58:46Z

70.88.54.98:

The '''Sacramento Furs''' (or '''"Sacfurs"''' for short) is an active, medium-sized [[furry]] social group for [[Wikipedia:Sacramento Valley|Sacramento]] and the surrounding areas.

The Sacfurs is one of the four geographically significant furry groups in the state of California. It should not be confused with the [[Bay Area Furry|Bay Area Furs]], the [[SoCalFurs|Southern California Furs]], or the [http://www.livejournal.com/community/valley_furs/ Valley Furs].

== Events ==
The group typically holds weekly [[Sacfurs Events|events]] every Saturday, with larger get-togethers every month or so. This varies depending on schedules and local happenings. These events are planned on the [http://www.sacfurs.com/forum/ forum], and listed on the main website.

== Sacfurs.com ==
The website is a kind of local online hub for local furries, that offers [http://www.sacfurs.com/services/ various free services] like discussion, hosting, and e-mail to its members.

=== Current status ===
Some DNS issues are still being resolved. Forum and website are back online, but services are still being restored. -- Leam [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 22:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

== Staff ==
* [[Leam]]
* [[Mallin]]
* [[Kitler]]
* [[Jason the Bunny]]

== External links ==
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/ Sacfurs.com] ([http://www.sacfurs.com/feed/ feed])
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/forum/ Sacfurs.com forum]
* [irc://irc.anthrochat.net:6667/sacfurs Sacfurs IRC at Anthrochat.net]

[[Category:Social groups]][[Category:Forums]][[Category:Websites]][[Category:California]]

Talk:Sacfurs

2006-03-23T19:19:30Z

70.88.54.98:

"These events are listed on the Sacfurs.com website and are planned on its [[forum]]."

I have to object to the last revision to the forum link in the above paragraph. Any user who sees that link will think that when they are clicking it, they will be taken to the Sacfurs forum, and not the WikiFur [[forum]] page. If the external link must be at the bottom of the page, I'd prefer the [[forum]] link be removed and have it be plaintext, as that would be more clear. [[User:Leam|Leam]] 21:33, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)

== Any way to put some kind of generic NPOV-style warning at the top? ==

Our server just went down right before a big meet, and I'd like to put a placeholder, if possible, up to be sure to notify folks to look at the [[Sacfurs_Events]] page. Thoughts? We're forwarding our domain here temporarily. What a mess. -.- [[User:Leam|Leam]] 04:57, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

:I've put something up for now. Hopefully it'll help. Feel free to tweak. :-) --{{UT|GreenReaper}} 07:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

::Thanks! [[User:Leam|Leam]] 16:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

:Somewhat off topic, but if you (Leam/Sacfurs) need cheap webhosting, please contact me privately and I'll point you to a place that might be able to meet your needs. --[[User:Dmuth|Dmuth]] 16:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

::We have a new host, but I thank you for looking out for me! [[User:Leam|Leam]] 16:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

:::Now that the site is up again, should the ''Current Status'' be removed as its not really in the correct tense or tone for the rest of the article or the wiki? --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 01:40, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

::::Well, the site isn't 100% back up, and even if it were, why couldn't the current status just be "online?" If we keep the section there, I could link to it as a persistant place for the users to refer to updates regarding said status. I think it's both handy and relevant. Could you please elaborate what you mean by it not being the correct tense or tone? - leam [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 19:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Sacfurs/Events

2006-03-03T23:42:29Z

70.88.54.98:

Sorry about the downtime guys -- our host booted us because of a rootkit, and we're in the process of bringing the box back to Sacramento. More later. [[User:Leam|Leam]] 16:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Zoren and Hinoserm deserve much hugs. They drove out to Oronet to get the server, and now it's physically back in Sacramento. Hinoserm is copying the data over, and we're hosting it now, instead of colocating it. We may have to do away with shell accounts, but hardly anyone ever used them, so it's no big loss; FTP should work fine. Once the forum is back online, I'll make sure all the other services are back up, and that the appropriate Services Offered page is updated. Oh! Everyone with e-mail may have to reset their passwords. [[User:Leam|Leam]] 21:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Forum is back up. Getting everything else moved in. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 23:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC) (Leam)

Sacfurs/Events

2006-03-03T23:41:26Z

70.88.54.98: /* Johnny's Birthday */

{{events}}

This is a listing of the most recent events for the [[Sacfurs]] furry social group. Please check the forums or [[Talk:Sacfurs_Events]] for more information.

== Current & upcoming events ==
=== Johnny's Birthday ===

'''WHEN:''' Sat March 4th - 6pm

'''WHERE:''' [http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1514+Sherwood+Ave,+Sacramento,+CA The Cavern]

'''Everyone is invited'''

'''Enjoy'''
*Bad movies
*Party games - like "Apples to apples" and "Munchkin"
*Classic video games
*Visiting with fellow furs

[http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1514+Sherwood+Ave,+Sacramento,+CA The Cavern]

== External links ==

* [http://www.sacfurs.com/ Sacfurs.com]
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3 Meet information section of our forum]
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/feed/ Sacfurs XML feed]

Sacfurs

2006-03-03T23:40:19Z

70.88.54.98:

The '''Sacramento Furs''' (or '''"Sacfurs"''' for short) is an active, medium-sized [[furry]] social group for [[Wikipedia:Sacramento Valley|Sacramento]] and the surrounding areas.

The Sacfurs is one of the four geographically significant furry groups in the state of California. It should not be confused with the [[Bay Area Furry|Bay Area Furs]], the [[SoCalFurs|Southern California Furs]], or the [http://www.livejournal.com/community/valley_furs/ Valley Furs].

== Events ==
The group typically holds weekly [[Sacfurs Events|events]] every Saturday, with larger get-togethers every month or so. This varies depending on schedules and local happenings. These events are planned on the [http://www.sacfurs.com/forum/ forum], and listed on the main website.

== Sacfurs.com ==
The website is a kind of local online hub for local furries, that offers [http://www.sacfurs.com/services/ various free services] like discussion, hosting, and e-mail to its members.

=== Current status ===
We're mostly back up, but folks may want to check the [[Sacfurs Events|events]] page just in case. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 23:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

== Staff ==
* [[Leam]]
* [[Mallin]]
* [[Kitler]]
* [[Jason the Bunny]]

== External links ==
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/ Sacfurs.com] ([http://www.sacfurs.com/feed/ feed])
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/forum/ Sacfurs.com forum]
* [irc://irc.anthrochat.net:6667/sacfurs Sacfurs IRC at Anthrochat.net]

[[Category:Social groups]][[Category:Forums]][[Category:Websites]][[Category:California]]

Talk:Sacfurs/Events

2006-03-02T21:52:45Z

70.88.54.98:

Sorry about the downtime guys -- our host booted us because of a rootkit, and we're in the process of bringing the box back to Sacramento. More later. [[User:Leam|Leam]] 16:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Zoren and Hinoserm deserve much hugs. They drove out to Oronet to get the server, and now it's physically back in Sacramento. Hinoserm is copying the data over, and we're hosting it now, instead of colocating it. We may have to do away with shell accounts, but hardly anyone ever used them, so it's no big loss; FTP should work fine. Once the forum is back online, I'll make sure all the other services are back up, and that the appropriate Services Offered page is updated. Oh! Everyone with e-mail may have to reset their passwords. [[User:70.88.54.98|70.88.54.98]] 21:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Adjectivecat

2006-01-12T20:52:01Z

70.88.54.98: personal website category

Adjectivecat

2006-01-09T20:11:00Z

70.88.54.98: funny fursecution quote

[[Image:Leam_kitler.png|155px|thumb|right|Leam, as drawn by [[Kitler1213]], and colored by himself.]]
'''Leam''' is a furry whose [[fursona]] is an [[anthropomorphic|anthro]] [[Wikipedia:Snow_Leopard|snow leopard]] of [[Wikipedia:Doctor Doom|doom]]. Leam is just another furry internet critic. Often mistaken for a [[troll]], he roams the fandom in search of friendship, [[lulz]], and [[pornography|porn]].

He is a somewhat left-leaning centrist politically, but maintains conservative stances on things such as fiscal matters, gun control, and animal rights. Kind of [[Wikipedia:Libertarian|Libertarian]], except not.

== 3-2-1 Contact ==
* [http://talk.google.com/ Google Talk]/[http://mail.google.com/ GMail]: 200found
* [http://www.200found.com/contact/ Alt. e-mail]
* [http://www.aim.com/ AIM]: leam1978 (deprecated; please use only if Google Talk/Jabber is unavailable)
* [[Sacfurs|Sacfurs forum]], [[Tapestries MUCK]], and [[Anthrochat|Anthrochat IRC]]: Leam
* [[Second Life]]: Leam Cunningham

== Description ==
{{Contributor|Leam}}
* '''Gender:''' Male
* '''Species:''' Evil Snow Leopard
* '''Fur:''' Typical
* '''Eyes:''' Blue-green
* '''Height:''' 6'7"
* '''Orientation:''' Bisexual
* '''Location:''' Sacramento, CA

Leam typically adorns something stylish, obscure, mostly black, or nothing at all. Accessories include squarish glasses, a simple pendant, and an ornate pen.

[[Image:Djkitty.gif|right]]
=== DJ Kitty ===
People really only talk to Leam online because of his strangely-hypnotic DJ Kitty [[LiveJournal]] icons.

=== Obtuse Triangle ===
When describing his [[fursona]] to his [[Mundane|non-furry]] friends, Leam will occasionally claim to be an anthropomorphic obtuse triangle with a semicolon penis. This is in reference to how obtuse he can be, and his near obsession with obscure and obsolete punctuation.

== Involvement in the Fandom ==
=== [[Sacfurs]] ===
Leam and [[Mallin]] revamped the local Sacramento furry mailing list and turned it into a thriving online social community for most of Northern California's furries.

=== Interweb ===
Leam enjoys making people mad on the internet. This can mean TALKING IN CAPS WITHOUT SENTENCE-ENDING PUNCTUATION or being overly critical regarding some of the morally-questionably aspects of the fandom.

=== Anthropomorphic Fan vs. Lifestyler? ===
Leam isn't much of what could be called a [[lifestyler]], anymore; he's in the fandom for the media. Porn, mostly.

== Works ==
Leam is a writer, web designer, and vocalist, but little has been published to date. What exists of his works online can be found on his website, [http://www.200found.com/ 200 Found].

== Old memes ==
=== Stabbing, burning, rape, etc. ===
Various interweb, RPG, and [[Sacfurs|forum]] activity has linked Leam to many arson/impaling running gags. "Fire makes everything better" is a popular theme of his humor, as well as [[Wikipedia:Something Positive|Something Positive]]'s "Knife goes in, heart comes out."

=== Eric Haskins ===
Leam inheirited the phone number of a mister Eric Haskins, and his cellular provider neglected to change the caller ID for a long time. He has been known to leave very random telephone messages under this guise. Several are known to be floating about the internet in MP3 format.

=== Stevie Wonder & Ray Charles ===
[http://www.200found.com/archives/2005/09/01/goddamn-you-stevie-wonder/ Stevie Wonder] is the cause of most of the suffering in the United States for the past thirty years. If your DSL service is out, Stevie Wonder probably tripped over a cable at your local switch. He was also behind the disastrous elections of the year 2000. It's ''always'' Stevie Wonder's fault.

=== African heritage ===
Leam attempts to explain away his occasional "ghetto-ness" by pointing out that he is part black.

== What others are saying ==
* "God I hate you so very much." --Kuros
* "Don't try that stuff with Leam. They call him the 'manual hammer' for a reason." --Cerebus
* "Leam. Sometimes I wonder the limits of your insanity." --Aldo
* "Don't emote your penis at me!" --[[SilverTail]]
* "You realize we are never going to Target together, ever again." --Becky (girlfriend)
* "I was happy because I was dreaming of stabbing you in the head with a toaster fork." --Kuros
* "Your stupid bad luck aura extends over half a continent." --Kuros
* "...[http://www.livejournal.com/users/segremores/15792.html?thread=79792#t79792 This] was fucking genius. You should get an award for that." --Slashmanson
* "My spelling is just fine, and my brain is ten times the size of yours." --[[Blackwingdragon]]
* "This is a real basket case. This raging lunatic is very quick to spout babble that he thinks is some kind of logic. A brief conversation will prove quite quickly that the goal is not to prove a point, but to upset someone by talking them in a circle of stupidity. Compulsive liar, hypocrite, idiot, and overall loser." --Badthingsman & Tigermaggot of [[Fursecution]] infamy

== External links ==
* [http://www.200found.com/ 200 Found]: "Attaching the electrodes of ignorance to the nipples of knowledge since 1997."
* [http://www.livejournal.com/users/liejournaler YOU NOW PROCESS DRACULA'S HEART]: the LieJournal, with additional furry-specific crap.
* [http://www.sacfurs.com/ Sacfurs.com]: a Northern California furry community site he helps maintain. There is also a [[Sacfurs]] WikiFur article.

[[Category:People]][[Category:Writers]][[Category:Musicians]][[Category:Snow leopard characters]]