WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Talk:SexyFur

2008-06-25T17:09:00Z

70.234.224.171:

==Note==
I'm writing this at a college computer, which means I can't go to the website and *ahem* perform additional research. More information can surely be added by someone who's not between classes. [[User:Almafeta|Almafeta]] 16:46, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)
:I've been in the site before a good couple of years ago. It holds text stories too, and sometimes (I may be wrong) audio recordings of the characters in a diary format. o_o --[[User:Markus|Markus]] 19:20, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

== Theron Hart ==
Google has 57 [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Theron+Hart%22&hl=en&safe=off&start=50&sa=N&filter=0 results for "Theron Hart"], most of which are historical or related to genealogy and none of which seem to be relevant. Considering it was added at roughly the same time as a nonsense article on the same topic by an anonymous contributor who hasn't made any other edits, I have some reservations about its accuracy. --[[User:Riismo|Riismo]] 02:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== Fluff Piece ==

I know that WikiFur doesn't have a staunch neutrality stance, but this article basically reads like an advertisement for Bernal's site. -[[Special:Contributions/70.234.224.171|70.234.224.171]] 17:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sage Nadia

2008-06-25T17:04:15Z

70.234.224.171:

: I was wondering when that would be removed. I would have myself, but it did not seem proper to do so.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

== Fchan administration ==
I'm not sure that [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=180491&oldid=180487 this edit] is, indeed vandalism. The tone is inappropriate, but the content may not be. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 18:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:Could somebody more acquainted with the situation re--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)-add any salvage data?. I'm not 100% privy with the admin dealings of this image board =( - [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 19:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

:: i can fill you all in on this after the recent conventions i am attending. that is further confusion and fwa.
:: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 09:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Great - and see you at FWA! --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I see Nadia's taken the Cigarskunk route of fellating herself on here, removing everything she thought was negative from the article and replacing it with puffed-up arrogance and butthurt. She's also apparently psycho enough that she doesn't understand how it looks. Oh well, not like I expected anything different from this place. {{unsigned|70.234.223.20}}

: You should sign your work so we know who you are.
: If you are able to provide an objective viewpoint, please feel free to put it in. What I removed was non-objective not so cleverly concealed tripe which belonged on CYD, Vivi, Lulz, or other locations which exist for the sole reason of creating drama and allowing persons to feel better about themselves by trying to make other look worse, not on WikiFur.
: So, tell us what you think needs to be added in, and give us references, or take a trip on down to #fchan in irc and we can chat. Usually you can find me available if I am on.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

::Yuh-huh. And you're obviously so objective, since you're, y'know... the subject of the article. How many yiff-yiff-yiffs did you give the admins here to make sure they'd make sure of it? Not that it seems to take much, you prolly just wagged your fat ass at 'em.
::Sign my comments. Whatever. I'm anonymous, my IP shows in the history anyway. You're just looking for excuses to justify yourself, which seems odd since you seem arrogant and psychotic enough to not think you need justification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

::: You seem to have something personal against me. Did I ban you or something? Whatever, just keep it off of WikiFur. They do a remarkable job of trying to run an excelent ship here and do not need petty behavior like this.
::: Come over to #fchan and we can talk. I like solutions, not problems.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 02:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm sure it seems an excellent job when it goes your way. Funny, they didn't seem to have problems with the last version, which pointed out what you'd done without all the prevaricating and excuses.
::::And no, sorry. You love problems, you've created so many. I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of playing by your rules. You may have tried to get yourself made an unofficial mod here, but as long as it lasts I'm going to remind you that you actually have no power to order anyone to do anything anywhere outside of failchan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

I'm Sage Freehaven, and I'm sorry I ever let you touch the admin controls for fChan. You should be ashamed of yourself for this shit -- at least when I wrote MY WikiFur article, I didn't watch over it like a hawk for edits -or- make myself out to be some sort of godly patron saint of furry imageboards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sage Freehaven. I'd prefer it if you didn't post my IP, thanks.

:Really? [[Sage Freehaven]] has [[User:Sage Freehaven|an account here]]. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 02:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::I forgot my password. Sue me. Run the IP; it should be located in Roanoke Rapids, NC, and I guaran-Goddamnit, Freehaven-tee you that I'm the only furry in that whole town. And while you're at it, why don't you make Nadia explain how she became fChan mod -- I GAVE HER THE DAMN POSITION? Or are you going to let her keep writing her own article?

:::: Yes, you gave the system over to me. That was a long time ago. Xenofur and I built it into something completely outside of the model you had originally intended. You took too long to come back. Not only that, but you never asked for the system back, and you never even tried to rejoin us. I kept your place as staff open until the moment you decided you did not want it.
:::: I still have all of the correspondence between us. From the beginning. Even when I asked you if you liked the sound of Sage Nadia, or EVE better. We both agreed we liked Nadia better. And the term Sage is not a title, it is a verb. I thought you knew that.
:::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::Yeah, shouldn't there at least be some banner you could apply to a page when it's vastly been written by the subject of the actual article? "Self-Authored" or something, so that someone doesn't make the mistake of thinking the article was actually objective? -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::A-friggin'-men.

:::Our crack team of legal artists will be at your door shortly, along with a new password email so that you do not have to expose your IP address. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 03:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::No need, I found my old one. So, my question stands -- are you going to let Nadia's self-written article stand, or will you bow to common sense and let people who know what the hell they're talking about write the article WITHOUT Nadia changing every little thing she didn't write? [[User:Sage Freehaven|Sage Freehaven]] 03:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: That would mean that it would be written/approved by Xenofur. He is the only other one who was with me from the beginning, and has been with the system the entire time. The rest of you know nothing really. You may think you do, but you have not been part of the actual circumstances. Just on the outside looking in.
:::::--[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::: So now you're abandoning your previous claims of wanting the article to be objective? Or do you honestly think an article written by you or your loyal servant is actually objective? Because... I mean, it's obviously NOT. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Herr Xenofur ist the only one who knows near as much about this as I do. I mean, come on here. According to your people, Xenofur and I kept the entire staff oblivious to the alleged fact that I was running everything. And, none of this, including myself, was an issue because everyone thought I had faded away.
::::::: Kinda sorta means you all really have no clue either.
::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: Just means that you're very good at lying and deception, by your own admission in the article. That you wrote. Even more reason that you shouldn't be allowed to write your own article. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::::: No, it means that I never knew I was still in charge until shortly before I took back over. It means that the staff knew I was around, and that I was someone Xenofur consulted, but we never made the public aware of such. It means we had a good staff who knew how to keep internal matters internal.
::::::::: I never intended to ever run the system again. It happened, that is all there is too it. Events went the way they went, and someone had to take control or we would have all watched the system, and those trusted to run it, tear apart over internal conflict. I did what I did because I did not want the system to die and be replaced by 15 clones each behaving like lulz.
::::::::: Fchan is meant to be a place for art appreciation. Drama belongs elsewhere.
::::::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Being a furry artist more stressful than ER worker ==

You know, Nadia, considering that I pointed out that you hadn't bothered to explain your comment yourself about ten times during the edit war, you think maybe that counts as ASKING YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF?!
See, the thing is, you can't. You meant exactly what you said, and you're going to hide behind the vague support of "many others". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] ([[User talk:75.17.251.234|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/75.17.251.234|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.

: Two years later, and someone asks. Finally.
: First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
: Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".
: Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.
: Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.
: The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.
: Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.
: You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.
: Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.
: Finally, my favorite point.
: People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.
: Art is a luxury. They do not need it.
: Bit of a ramble, but should help you assimilate.
: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 03:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::And yet, I still find it to show a total lack of perspective and you to be full of BS. -[[User:75.17.251.234|75.17.251.234]] 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

::Stricken pending any argument that it's a useful addition. If no one asked for years, then no one wanted or needed to know. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 09:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::: Of course not. That would mean they would not be able to use it as my defining comment. I do not mind if they continue to use it that way. It really is a good way of trying to make me look like my perspective is skewed and off base. Absolutely brilliant, if not completely predictable tactics.
::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 11:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

:::: Dear, don't pretend the world is out to get you. This is a wiki, not a battleground. It is a place for information, not a place where you combat your supposed enemies. That was never your defining comment until you told the world it was and begged them to ridicule you for it; it doesn't belong here, it's better suited for your own journal or site. And let me know if I'm "very mean being" to you. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 19:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::: Paranoia Much?
::::: The world is not out to get me. As with all individuals, a few are trying to have fun, make a point, and intend to make my life a bit more complex than previously experienced. But, hey, we all have those types of people to challenge us and push us to new heights.
::::: You must be new to this, or have been reading the abridged book of Nadia. That statement has been used more times and on more sites than anything else I have ever said. If you count my pointing out it was never defined as begging, you must have led a very simple and plush life. Begging is something one does when they have nothing and must resort to the pity of others in order to survive. Pointing out facts, as I have, is what people do when there is a definite lack of understanding going on.
::::: --[[User:Sage Nadia|Sage Nadia]] 21:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

::::::You must be new to the whole wiki thing. If you demand that the uneditable block which persists the viewpoint of a single editor (you) remains in the article, then you should give a reason and evidence for it here on the talk page and not revert the entire article as "vandalism". My change has been reviewed and accepted by the administration as not vandalism. Further you reverted a number of positive changes along with the one change you disagreed with. You have more tools available than simple reversion.
:::::I don't care about the 'book of Nadia'. I don't read furry fiction. If you think the fiction is appropriate, then explain why. WikiFur is not a place for you to make rebuttals to arguments, I'd write that little essay in your private space or in a journal somewhere and leave it off this page. [[User:Downspin|'''DS''']]|[[User talk:Downspin|go]] 21:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

== NPOV ==

Opinions on [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sage_Nadia&curid=11307&diff=200267&oldid=187378&rcid=208618 this edit?] It seems to have removed massive swathes of information that the author has deemed controversial. I'm likely to revert if no one objects and justifies the removal of so much information. {{:User:Robomilk/sig}} 08:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
: I reverted having checked that users edit history, they appear to have some "issues" with the way WikiFur is run and has previously made non-serious edits to the site. {{:User:Robomilk/sig}} 12:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Nadia Adminning Again ==

Xenofur seems to want to remove the fact that Nadia is actively administrating Fchan again, despite it being presented in a factual, non-insulting way. Perhaps someone with an account would care to upload an image of the plain-as-day evidence that anyone could presumably see if they went to the site anyway?

http://www.anonib.com/_freehaven/images/1060/noincestforu_anonib.jpg

It is rather odd that Xenofur and Nadia seem to be dedicated to denying the truth almost just to do it. I mean, Nadia's being an administrator again, she's doing it right there, on fchan... why do they feel that it's important to lie and say she's not on here? It's mindboggling. -[[Special:Contributions/70.234.224.171|70.234.224.171]] 17:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Sage Nadia

2008-06-25T17:00:05Z

70.234.224.171:

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that Nadia took '''Sage''' from former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], believing that '''Sage''' was a title and not part of a name. Nadia has commented several times that that is not the case.

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Kindrift]]
It has been suggested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]] moderator [[Kindrift]], who released an image comparing Nadia's IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel pertaining to Ayukawataur.

Kindrift has claimed that the image was not edited in any way beyond the necessary highlighting. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity. He has gone on record as stating that this is, in part, because he would not wish to be associated with the reputation the site or the moderation team garnered in his absence.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] grew by leaps and bounds. As of this writing, the Fchan DNP lists over 221 individual artists and 15 websites, one of which is only partially present, resulting in a larger appearance than it actually has.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones (ironically enough, most of the furry-based imageboards that have cropped up since Nadia gained control of Fchan were created specifically because Fchan didn't die). As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan to ensure this would happen:

===== Domination =====

Step one was to dominate the boards -- to create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users' love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it openly available to any and all artists who wished to be placed on it. In this manner, she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better imageboard. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many "trolls".

===== Retirement =====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye -- as part of this step, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining active on Fchan only in an advisory capacity to Xenofur. She thus was allowed to stay in Fchan's administrative IRC channel. Additionally, due to the low reliability of the fchan server and the low availability of persons with the knowledge and ability to bring it back up in emergency cases, Xenofur allowed her to retain root login, on the condition she only acts in cases of functional failure to threat to the server. He never informed Raven or any other member of this fact, due to his knowledge of Raven's inability to accept anything else than absolutely clear ranks and power levels. The userbase of fchan was not informed as the persons with server admin access for development and maintenance reasons were not generally made public, unless they chose so.

===== Return =====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The delay here being caused by the owner looking at the situation with indifference. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, due to a statement of an underinformed close acquaintance of [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]]. Site administrator Xenofur claimed in February 2008 that things happened as follows:

{{q|Due to a specific event in summer 2007, Xenofur decided that Raven was unable to deal with the specific power structures unique to Fchan, this concerning not only the position of Nadia, but also the relation between mods and admins. He did however not take the necessary actions, kept his conclusions secret from Raven and let him retain his position. Half a year passed in which things went on with Raven doing the bulk of the administrative decisions and Xenofur swallowing most of his objections. After that time however he was talked into performing a certain act. However, afterwards he realized that the reasoning leading to that act were, as far as he was concerned, completely flawed and not consistant with the way Fchan should be administrated. As such he decided to remove Raven from his admin position, however opted due to emotional stress to drop offline for a week. This left Nadia online as the only person with the access and knowledge to ensure security of the server. In that week she and Raven talked about the topic at hand and Raven made a remark that she interpreted as being a threat to the server. According to the conditions agreed on with Xenofur a year before, she changed the root password of the server to prevent any tampering.

When Xenofur came back online she immediately gave the new root password to him, as well as instructions on how to change it. Due to work stress and wanting to talk things through with the other mods he opted to leave things as they are for the moment. In a lengthy talk Raven and Xenofur came to the agreement that it would be best for Raven to leave the administration team. Two other mods followed him, as they'd only been on the team due to being friends of his.

It is of note that in the time from her retirement until the moment when she changed the root password, she had not done a single administrative talk or decision. Currently Nadia is not listed on Fchan's front page under the "Contact" section, due to the fact that all administrative decisions are still only being done by Xenofur, while she restricts her actions to advising him and the mods. Due to being dismissed by Xenofur Raven is also unlisted, leaving only Xenofur as the remaining Administrator.}}

Despite these claims, Nadia recently posted on the site's discussion board, using the red "administrator" text for her name, declaring that all images depicting incest were now DNP.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Sage Nadia

2008-06-25T16:07:20Z

70.234.224.171:

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that Nadia took '''Sage''' from former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], believing that '''Sage''' was a title and not part of a name. Nadia has commented several times that that is not the case.

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Kindrift]]
It has been suggested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]] moderator [[Kindrift]], who released an image comparing Nadia's IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel pertaining to Ayukawataur.

Kindrift has claimed that the image was not edited in any way beyond the necessary highlighting. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity. He has gone on record as stating that this is, in part, because he would not wish to be associated with the reputation the site or the moderation team garnered in his absence.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] grew by leaps and bounds. As of this writing, the Fchan DNP lists over 221 individual artists and 15 websites, one of which is only partially present, resulting in a larger appearance than it actually has.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones (ironically enough, most of the furry-based imageboards that have cropped up since Nadia gained control of Fchan were created specifically because Fchan didn't die). As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan to ensure this would happen:

===== Domination =====

Step one was to dominate the boards -- to create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users' love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it openly available to any and all artists who wished to be placed on it. In this manner, she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better imageboard. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many "trolls".

===== Retirement =====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye -- as part of this step, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining active on Fchan only in an advisory capacity to Xenofur. She thus was allowed to stay in Fchan's administrative IRC channel. Additionally, due to the low reliability of the fchan server and the low availability of persons with the knowledge and ability to bring it back up in emergency cases, Xenofur allowed her to retain root login, on the condition she only acts in cases of functional failure to threat to the server. He never informed Raven or any other member of this fact, due to his knowledge of Raven's inability to accept anything else than absolutely clear ranks and power levels. The userbase of fchan was not informed as the persons with server admin access for development and maintenance reasons were not generally made public, unless they chose so.

===== Return =====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The delay here being caused by the owner looking at the situation with indifference. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, due to a statement of an underinformed close acquaintance of [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]]. Site administrator Xenofur claims that things happened as follows:

Due to a specific event in summer 2007, Xenofur decided that Raven was unable to deal with the specific power structures unique to Fchan, this concerning not only the position of Nadia, but also the relation between mods and admins. He did however not take the necessary actions, kept his conclusions secret from Raven and let him retain his position. Half a year passed in which things went on with Raven doing the bulk of the administrative decisions and Xenofur swallowing most of his objections. After that time however he was talked into performing a certain act. However, afterwards he realized that the reasoning leading to that act were, as far as he was concerned, completely flawed and not consistant with the way Fchan should be administrated. As such he decided to remove Raven from his admin position, however opted due to emotional stress to drop offline for a week. This left Nadia online as the only person with the access and knowledge to ensure security of the server. In that week she and Raven talked about the topic at hand and Raven made a remark that she interpreted as being a threat to the server. According to the conditions agreed on with Xenofur a year before, she changed the root password of the server to prevent any tampering.

When Xenofur came back online she immediately gave the new root password to him, as well as instructions on how to change it. Due to work stress and wanting to talk things through with the other mods he opted to leave things as they are for the moment. In a lengthy talk Raven and Xenofur came to the agreement that it would be best for Raven to leave the administration team. Two other mods followed him, as they'd only been on the team due to being friends of his.

It is of note that in the time from her retirement until the moment when she changed the root password, she claims to have not done a single administrative talk or decision. Currently Nadia is not listed on Fchan's front page under the "Contact" section, due to the fact that all administrative decisions are still only being done by Xenofur, while she restricts her actions to advising him and the mods. Due to being dismissed by Xenofur Raven is also unlisted, leaving only Xenofur as the remaining Administrator.

Despite these claims, Nadia recently posted on the site's discussion board, using the red "administrator" text for her name, declaring that all images depicting incest were now DNP.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]

Sage Nadia

2008-06-25T16:00:19Z

70.234.224.171:

{{NPOV}}
{{cleanup}}
{{context}}
'''Sage Nadia''', pronounced '''Sah-Geh Nah-Dee-Ah''', is the moniker used by the former administrator, now owner, of the [[Fchan]] [[image board]]. Due to an ongoing misunderstanding regarding her name, she currently goes simply as '''Nadia'''.{{fact}} Her avatar is a Scorpiontaur [[hybrid]].

She is a [[lesbian]] who openly dislikes [[porn]], and is known for her no-nonsense, abrasive, direct and very iron handed method of administration, and for her respect for most artists, [[furry]] or not.

== Sage ==

According to Nadia, the term '''Sage''' in her original handle has nothing to do with the [[Wikipedia:Common sage|herb]], or with being [[Wikipedia:Philosopher|wise]].

It is actually derived from the imageboard term [http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sage#Sage Sage], which is normally typed into the e-mail field in an imageboard's "e-mail" or "link" fields and is used by posted to prevent a thread from being [[Wikipedia:Bump (Internet)|bumped]] to the front page of the imageboard (it comes from the Japanese term 下げる, pronounced '''sah-geh-roo''', which means "''to lower''").

Others believe that Nadia took '''Sage''' from former Fchan administrator [[Sage Freehaven]], believing that '''Sage''' was a title and not part of a name. Nadia has commented several times that that is not the case.

== Sage Nadia=Ayukawataur? ==
[[Image:Nadia's True Identity.jpg|right|thumb|Screenshot taken by Kindrift]]
It has been suggested by some that Sage Nadia is also the administrator of [[FurBid]], [[Ayukawataur]]. This was allegedly proven by [[Vivisector (website)|Vivisector.org]] moderator [[Kindrift]], who released an image comparing Nadia's IP in posts made in the Vivisector forums (all of which were deleted once this very issue was raised) to IP data discovered in the WikiFur [[IRC]] channel pertaining to Ayukawataur.

Kindrift has claimed that the image was not edited in any way beyond the necessary highlighting. In either case, neither Nadia or Ayukawataur have commented as to the validity of this accusation.

== Nadia, Fchan and the ideal image board ==

Initially, Nadia started out as a poster on Fchan; when then-administrator [[Sage Freehaven]] was forced to give up control of Fchan due to being unable to have regular Internet access in June of 2005, Freehaven named [[Xenofur]] and a volunteering Nadia as his administrative replacements (Xenofur was already a moderator at the time after having helped Freehaven fix one of its major server crashes).

After Freehaven was able to regain some semblance of Internet access a few months later, he contacted Nadia and told her that he was no longer sure when he would have full-time Internet access, and if he did get full-time Internet access back, it would likely be at the cost of the amount of free time he'd have to moderate Fchan. It was at that point that he handed full administrative control of Fchan over to Sage Nadia. Since then, Freehaven has regained full-time Internet access, and expressed little-to-no interest in rejoining the moderation team of Fchan in any capacity. He has gone on record as stating that this is, in part, because he would not wish to be associated with the reputation the site or the moderation team garnered in his absence.

==== Nadia as Fchan administrator ====

Once Nadia was named the full-time administrator of Fchan, she began to change the board to fit a very specific vision; To try to create a [[Wikipedia:Futaba_Channel|*chan]]-style board that could survive as a respected and useful part of the community. During her administration, the [[DNP]] grew by leaps and bounds. As of this writing, the Fchan DNP lists over 221 individual artists and 15 websites, one of which is only partially present, resulting in a larger appearance than it actually has.

Her initial plan upon taking control of Fchan was to initiate a series of events which would cause the community to implode upon itself. This plan lasted less than a month, when she came to the conclusion that if Fchan died, it would only be replaced by many more clones (ironically enough, most of the furry-based imageboards that have cropped up since Nadia gained control of Fchan were created specifically because Fchan didn't die). As long as she had Fchan, she would be able to shape the future of how an imageboard could be effective and eventually accepted within the community as a whole.

She then created a threefold plan to ensure this would happen:

===== Domination =====

Step one was to dominate the boards -- to create a hatred of the users toward her while elevating the users' love for her assistant [[Xenofur]]. This included popularizing the DNP and making it openly available to any and all artists who wished to be placed on it. In this manner, she was also able to target who in the community would be least likely to accept the system and learn what changes were needed to build a better imageboard. One of her major changes was the removal of user rights to post non-constructive criticism, a decision which led to the banning of many "trolls".

===== Retirement =====

Step two was to disappear from the community eye -- as part of this step, Nadia retired from active adminship. In doing so, she passed the job of Administrator over to her assistant, [[Xenofur]]. For a brief time, she remained on as an adviser/ninja-moderator, but remained hidden from public view. She eventually removed herself from the public eye almost entirely, remaining active on Fchan only in an advisory capacity to Xenofur. She thus was allowed to stay in Fchan's administrative IRC channel. Additionally, due to the low reliability of the fchan server and the low availability of persons with the knowledge and ability to bring it back up in emergency cases, Xenofur allowed her to retain root login, on the condition she only acts in cases of functional failure to threat to the server. He never informed Raven or any other member of this fact, due to his knowledge of Raven's inability to accept anything else than absolutely clear ranks and power levels. The userbase of fchan was not informed as the persons with server admin access for development and maintenance reasons were not generally made public, unless they chose so.

===== Return =====

Step three was to return the board to the initial model. On December 16, 2007 Nadia seized control of the Fchan server, locking everyone (including the owner of the server) out at the root level. The next morning she returned [[Xenofur]]'s access and returned access to the server owner a week later. The delay here being caused by the owner looking at the situation with indifference. The events leading up to her decision to initiate step three have been speculated on, due to a statement of an underinformed close acquaintance of [[Raven_Rivers|Raven]]. Site administrator Xenofur claims that things happened as follows:

Due to a specific event in summer 2007, Xenofur decided that Raven was unable to deal with the specific power structures unique to Fchan, this concerning not only the position of Nadia, but also the relation between mods and admins. He did however not take the necessary actions, kept his conclusions secret from Raven and let him retain his position. Half a year passed in which things went on with Raven doing the bulk of the administrative decisions and Xenofur swallowing most of his objections. After that time however he was talked into performing a certain act. However, afterwards he realized that the reasoning leading to that act were, as far as he was concerned, completely flawed and not consistant with the way Fchan should be administrated. As such he decided to remove Raven from his admin position, however opted due to emotional stress to drop offline for a week. This left Nadia online as the only person with the access and knowledge to ensure security of the server. In that week she and Raven talked about the topic at hand and Raven made a remark that she interpreted as being a threat to the server. According to the conditions agreed on with Xenofur a year before, she changed the root password of the server to prevent any tampering.

When Xenofur came back online she immediately gave the new root password to him, as well as instructions on how to change it. Due to work stress and wanting to talk things through with the other mods he opted to leave things as they are for the moment. In a lengthy talk Raven and Xenofur came to the agreement that it would be best for Raven to leave the administration team. Two other mods followed him, as they'd only been on the team due to being friends of his.

It is of note that in the time from her retirement until the moment when she changed the root password, she had not done a single administrative talk or decision. Currently Nadia is not listed on Fchan's front page under the "Contact" section, due to the fact that all administrative decisions are still only being done by Xenofur, while she restricts her actions to advising him and the mods. Due to being dismissed by Xenofur Raven is also unlisted, leaving only Xenofur as the remaining Administrator.

== Nadia's viewpoint ==

Nadia made the following comment early on in her adminship of fchan:
{{q|Being a full time artist is more work than even being an intern in an ER. It is harder and more competitive than just about any other work you may find - Sage Nadia}}

Recently, in the discussion section for this article, Nadia finally revealed the meaning behind this statement:
{{q|First off, it was "Full Time Artist" not "Furry Artist".
Second, I said "More Work" not "More Stressful".

Being I have spent a great deal of time dealing with peoples of both professions, I have somewhat of an insight into this.

Being an intern means you are still learning. You may hold a life in your hands, but you are still being watched over by and coached by full doctors and surgeons. They are there to help you learn. They will step in and take over if you make a mistake, or even if they see you are about to make a mistake. That is the key difference. You draw a paycheck and have people to help you. People who know what they are doing and have a vested interest in seeing you succeed.

The art field is similar, but in many ways different. Some artists, professionals, go to college and universities to learn. Just as those who wish to be doctors, they learn a series of basics. Color theory, composition, life drawing, and such which are all required to have a fully rounded artist. These are taught by people who are often artists themselves as well.

Unlike the doctor path in life, being an artist means that when you leave college, if you even went, you are dumped out on the streets with a BFA, which the world is flooded with, and you have nobody to help you, shelter you, give you a paycheck, correct your mistakes, or stop you before you make them. You are, in effect, on your own.

You have a choice. Get a job, which means you are no longer a full time artist, or make it on your own. Something which few out there ever manage to do. They instead often end up living in their mother or grandmothers basement, trying to figure out why the latest work they did is drawing praise from all of their friends, but no gallery or even private buyer wants it. No one around them can help them. Because, most of them are not artists and have no clue. And if they are, they do not want to give away their secrets. Every sale to another artist means one less for them, which means the difference between steak, Hamburger Helper, or ramen for a month.

Even if you have good friendly help and other artists willing to work with you, the higher up you go, the more skilled you get, the less you have in people with the same skill who can be of assistance. But you now get the added stress of working to stay ahead, to not get stale, and keep people interested in works which are growing steadily more expensive every day. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are thousands, if not more, people just like you who would love nothing more than to see them finally fail and have to go work at a burger joint, and who make it their life work to do it for the lulz.

Finally, my favorite point.

People need medical care. It is a secure job, and you will always have someone sick, hurt, or dying.

Art is a luxury. They do not need it.}}

[[Category:People]]
[[Category:Taur characters]]