WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Alpha City

2006-11-14T21:00:38Z

65.118.187.102: cleanup; rewrote the first part, got rid of the second part since it was pretty much all said in the beginning and was like a huge recap of what you just read

'''Alpha City''' was an [[IRC]]-based free form role-playing game that was active beginning in 1994.

==History==
Alpha City was ran by [[QuyetPawz]], [[Dark_Wolf]], and a number of channel operators. Much of the setting and artwork was contributed by players. For a short time before the game was officially closed, it was moved to [[Esper]] from the RPGWorlds server.

== In-game setting==
===History of Alpha City===
The fictional history of Alpha City began with the vision of a [[feline]] politician, Miriam Raas. Raas envisioned a virtual utopia, where citizens of all species and cultures would pool their resources and all work together for the common good; other city-states were often ruled by greedy, neo-feudalistic rulers.

After gaining support and being elected leader of the new project, Alpha City, a large city-state comprised of nearly three dozen minor cities and towns, was founded. With funding going into science funding and social projects, along with the massive immigration of scientists of all kinds, the city grew into the most scientifically advanced city in the world.

====Downfall====
The city's prosperity was not to last. Crime lords and people with powerful underworld connections began to flood into the city, coveting its vast amount of wealth. Raas was unprepared to deal with this; she barely managed to keep her elected position for a fourth term by agreeing to the plan of the new "Lupine League" party to form a new branch of the police force dubbed the "[[Canine]] Law Enforcement Division", or CLED.

With the help of the CLED, crime rates dropped drastically. Most of Raas's advisors and assistants transferred to the Lupine League, and by next election it was apparent that Raas had been reelected as a matter of tradition rather than her ability to govern.

A short time after the election, several changes by the Lupine League went into effect. A wall of steel and concrete over a hundred feet tall was built to surround the city. Immigration became difficult for everyone but canines — felines, especially, were discouraged from entering the city.

With the help of false newspaper reports, the Lupine League managed to convince the populace that the decreasing crime rates were correlated with the decrease in feline immigration, rather than the increase in CLED funding. The once-equal society of Alpha City deteriorated.

Although Raas continued to serve as mayor, all but a scant few of her assistants were members of the Party for Law Enforcement, or PLE, which had been formed as the new Lupine League. The PLE increased in popularity even as feline public perception decreased drastically.

Soon, Alpha City became truly segregated. Slums formed in the shadows of the great wall due to land values rising as the city's growth was impeded by the barrier. Thousands of people, mostly felines, were rendered homeless. They were often driven to crime to survive.

On the other hand, the inner city prospered. Due to outcry by canines and upper-class citizens, electronic gates were erected around the area, and heavily armed CLED guards were stationed to make sure no one without a special pass was able to enter. Although all species were theoretically still equal, only canines ever qualified for a pass.

Much of the city's income was spent on the wall. This caused the previously prosperous city to go from the world's leading scientific community to a backwater within a matter of years.

One mid-winter, pending the mayoral election, Miriam Raas died in a suspicious falling accident. Feline press raised cries of murder; canine authorities pointed out that Raas's personal retainers were all feline. No formal trial was held, and they were never seen again.

A black [[wolf]] named Raeth Karr was elected as the new mayor. The votes were never counted.

[[Category:Multiplayer worlds]][[Category:1995 births]][[Category:2002 deaths]]

Talk:Chibiabos

2006-11-14T17:07:34Z

65.118.187.102: readding question then since you realised that it's a talk page

So why has this been protected and such when you obviously don't care about [[Sibe|people's requests for takedowns and privacy]]? [[User:65.118.187.102|65.118.187.102]] 15:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Chibiabos

2006-11-14T15:51:00Z

65.118.187.102: question

{{Protected-Excluded}}

So why has this been protected and such when you obviously don't care about [[Sibe|people's requests for takedowns and privacy]]? [[User:65.118.187.102|65.118.187.102]] 15:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

WTFux

2006-11-14T15:24:40Z

65.118.187.102: /* Controversy */ are we calling into question the existence of blame here or what

[[Image:Newwtfux.png|right|WTFux's Logo]]
'''WTFux''' is a [[2ch]] style art community populated mostly with former members of other [[Wikipedia:Image-board|image-boards]], especially those who were banned from [[4chan]]'s Random board. It is most well known for the [[Wikipedia:Camwhore|camwhores]] board and for having noticeable more "registered" ([[Wikipedia:Tripcode|tripcode]]) users than other boards. WTFux was also notable for being one of a handful of popular English-language [[cat]] image-boards.

[[Image:Censor_NC17.png|right]]
*'''Address:''' http://wtfux.org/
*'''Administrators:''' [[cho0b]]
*'''Ran from/to:'''
**November 2004 - July 24, 2006
** ? - ? (moving to new servers)

==WTFux and furries==

In tradition with WTFux's rebellious behavior, a very popular [[furry]] board was created inside [[Wikipedia:Hentai|hentai]] directory. Following the style of the rest of the site and the earlier mentioned rebelliousness, the board, dubbed /furi/, was nearly rule-less, which has resulted in a board where any and all art can be posted, regardless of the artist's wishes.

==Controversy==

On March 15, 2006, the /furi/ board went offline for unknown reasons. An announcement by cho0b on the main page suggested that the blame was on furry artists [[Jeremy Bernal]] and [[David Parenteau]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTFshutdown.JPG]. A later [http://crushyiffdestroy.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1915&start=100&sid=72ace0234fe333708f8e5d5fdf6b2847 post] on [[Crush Yiff Destroy]] would indicate that Jeremy Bernal did serve WTFux with a [[Wikipedia:DMCA_notice|DMCA notice]] regarding inappropriate display of his copyrighted material.

WTFux's /furi/ board was eventually deleted, only to be brought back as a standalone furry archive, [[WTFur]].

{{Image boards}}

{{Wikipedia|Image-board}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2004 births]]

Lulz.net

2006-11-14T15:15:30Z

65.118.187.102: /* 2006 server move */

[[Image:Wtfur2.png|right]]
'''Lulz.net''' (formerly known as '''WTFur''') is a [[2ch]] style art community for the posting of [[erotic]] [[furry art]], and populated with former members from the /furi/ board on [[WTFux]].

{{rating-ma-button}}
*'''Addressess''':
**'''Main imageboard''' http://lulz.net/
**'''Discussion forum''': http://lulz.net/dis/
*'''Founders''': [[cho0b]]
*'''Administrators''': cho0b, [[Arcturus]], [[Mellis]], [[Kiba]]
*'''Ran from/to''':
** Early summer 2006 - July 24, 2006 (as WTFur)
** August 25, 2006 - present (as Lulz.net)
*'''Logo''': ''"Furry art discussion and critique"''

==Policies and content==

This board does not feature a list of people that draw furries that don't want them posted. Although polite takedown requests from said people are usually heeded, impolite or impatient takedown requests from artists are often disregarded, and sometimes even mocked<ref>[http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/ WTFur's message board at pleasedontsue.com]</ref>.

As it was with [[WTFux]], its main [[furry]] directory image is a singular topical board called '''/furi/'''. This allows all manner of media topics to be displayed, ranging from clean art to adult material, to straight to gay sexual content, to vore, scat and cub art, all posted side-by-side.

Because of this, there have been several requests by users to subdivide this master board into smaller categories, using a model similar to other imageboards such as [[Fchan]]. The official stance of the moderation team is that requests of this nature will be ignored, and when questioned about this decision, moderator Mellis responded thus why the reason of a single unified board:

:"''People are going to bitch [about images] with or without separated boards, because there are a lot of people who are thin-skinned or just like to argue or be 'category zealots'. Personally, I would rather deal with ONE board where people are complaining about what should and should not be posted, than seven or eight or however fine you want to subdivide categories.''"

==2006 server move==
[[image:GovWTFur.png|250px|right]]
On July 25, 2006, in preparation to moving the site to a new server, WTFur's splash page was replaced by cho0b with a fake notice from the US [[wikipedia:fbi|Federal Bureau of Investigation]], [[Wikipedia:NSA|National Security Agency]], [[Wikipedia:MPAA|MPAA]], and the [[wikipedia:RIAA|RIAA]].

The "message" informs the viewer that "''This website has been closed by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation, in association with the United States National Security Agency, the Motion Picture Association of America, and the Recording Industry Association of America; pending a federal investigation''," that their [[wikipedia:IP|IP]] has been logged, and to "''Please stay where you are. You will be contacted for questioning regarding the investigations related to this website.''"

Clicking on "''Piracy Doesn't Pay''" lead to a placeholder image board on the server (/temp/,) with the title '''/pedofur/'''. Finally, until the move was completed, all hosted images were archived in a single [[wikipedia:rar|RAR]] image, and uploaded to the [http://thepiratebay.org/ The Pirate Bay], a [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|BitTorrent]] tracker.

The original "takedown" image can be found at [http://vxbinaca.beevomit.org/ Vxbinaca.beevomit.org], under the section "''7/24/06 FBI Takedown joke page.''"

==Relocation changes==

The board re-appeared on August 25, 2006 as "Lulz.net," having lost its prior name due to legal proceedings with [[furry artist]] [[Jeremy Bernal]]. An European server was also chosen due to more lax copyright rules overseas, which meant that what little of a DNP copyright protection "WTFur" had could now be completely disregarded.

==Controversy==

=====Single board approach=====
Many visitors to Lulz take issue with the board's "''hands-off''" approach to posting and moderation, allowing all manner of media content ([[PG]] to [[X]], straight, gay, vore, scat, cub art, etc...) to be posted mixed, side-by-side on the site's single board.

Though controversial, the moderators defend this choice by reasoning that it will expose users to art or [[Artist|artists]] they would not have seen otherwise, and that because users are prone to complain about posts in categories no matter how finely they are divided, dealing with those complaints in a single board only saves the moderation team a great deal of time. And so, any future requests by users to subdivide the content of the board into smaller categories, will, as stated before (see "Policies and content",) be ignored.

=====Moderators' actions/inactions=====
Furthermore, there have been accusations of the moderating staff standing ''idly by'' in the past as a direct result of these policies, when threads have been posted that users object to, but do not necessarily break any of the site's rules, or the moderation team is slow to remove spam or invasion posts from the page. Though there have been requests by a small group of users to take down threads featuring [[Cub|cub]] or commercial work, such as work by [[Palcomix]], the moderation team does not appear to remove such material.

=====Cub art=====
When questioned in particular about 'cub porn' and the policy on the site of such material after one of many such threads caught the eye of [[CrushYiffDestroy]], the moderators of the site responded with the following:

*"''Enforcing rules based on morals is not the job of the moderators and/or administrators of an imageboard site''"
*"''If users think that a thread contains morally offensive images or text, they can sage the thread until it is permasaged into nothing"''
*''"While I whole heartedly agree that child pornography is not something that should be smiled upon, I feel that I must reinstate the fact that 'cub porn' is not child pornography"''<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2478&highlight=lulz&sid=4f2e452174093b8a828829e76302d5fb cho0b and "cub porn" art on Lulz.net]</ref>.

These policies have been in place since Lulz's inception, and, for better or worse, remain unchanged to this day.

==References==
<references/>

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2006 births]]

Lulz.net

2006-11-14T15:14:37Z

65.118.187.102: /* Policies and content */

[[Image:Wtfur2.png|right]]
'''Lulz.net''' (formerly known as '''WTFur''') is a [[2ch]] style art community for the posting of [[erotic]] [[furry art]], and populated with former members from the /furi/ board on [[WTFux]].

{{rating-ma-button}}
*'''Addressess''':
**'''Main imageboard''' http://lulz.net/
**'''Discussion forum''': http://lulz.net/dis/
*'''Founders''': [[cho0b]]
*'''Administrators''': cho0b, [[Arcturus]], [[Mellis]], [[Kiba]]
*'''Ran from/to''':
** Early summer 2006 - July 24, 2006 (as WTFur)
** August 25, 2006 - present (as Lulz.net)
*'''Logo''': ''"Furry art discussion and critique"''

==Policies and content==

This board does not feature a list of people that draw furries that don't want them posted. Although polite takedown requests from said people are usually heeded, impolite or impatient takedown requests from artists are often disregarded, and sometimes even mocked<ref>[http://www.pleasedontsue.com/wtfur/ WTFur's message board at pleasedontsue.com]</ref>.

As it was with [[WTFux]], its main [[furry]] directory image is a singular topical board called '''/furi/'''. This allows all manner of media topics to be displayed, ranging from clean art to adult material, to straight to gay sexual content, to vore, scat and cub art, all posted side-by-side.

Because of this, there have been several requests by users to subdivide this master board into smaller categories, using a model similar to other imageboards such as [[Fchan]]. The official stance of the moderation team is that requests of this nature will be ignored, and when questioned about this decision, moderator Mellis responded thus why the reason of a single unified board:

:"''People are going to bitch [about images] with or without separated boards, because there are a lot of people who are thin-skinned or just like to argue or be 'category zealots'. Personally, I would rather deal with ONE board where people are complaining about what should and should not be posted, than seven or eight or however fine you want to subdivide categories.''"

==2006 server move==
[[image:GovWTFur.png|250px|right]]
On July 25, 2006, in preparation to moving the site to a new server, WTFur's splash page was replaced by cho0b with an "alleged" notice from the US [[wikipedia:fbi|Federal Bureau of Investigation]], [[Wikipedia:NSA|National Security Agency]], [[Wikipedia:MPAA|MPAA]], and the [[wikipedia:RIAA|RIAA]].

The "message" informs the viewer that "''This website has been closed by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation, in association with the United States National Security Agency, the Motion Picture Association of America, and the Recording Industry Association of America; pending a federal investigation''," that their [[wikipedia:IP|IP]] has been logged, and to "''Please stay where you are. You will be contacted for questioning regarding the investigations related to this website.''"

Clicking on "''Piracy Doesn't Pay''" lead to a placeholder image board on the server (/temp/,) with the title '''/pedofur/'''. Finally, until the move was completed, all hosted images were archived in a single [[wikipedia:rar|RAR]] image, and uploaded to the [http://thepiratebay.org/ The Pirate Bay], a [[Wikipedia:BitTorrent|BitTorrent]] tracker.

The original "takedown" image can be found at [http://vxbinaca.beevomit.org/ Vxbinaca.beevomit.org], under the section "''7/24/06 FBI Takedown joke page.''"

==Relocation changes==

The board re-appeared on August 25, 2006 as "Lulz.net," having lost its prior name due to legal proceedings with [[furry artist]] [[Jeremy Bernal]]. An European server was also chosen due to more lax copyright rules overseas, which meant that what little of a DNP copyright protection "WTFur" had could now be completely disregarded.

==Controversy==

=====Single board approach=====
Many visitors to Lulz take issue with the board's "''hands-off''" approach to posting and moderation, allowing all manner of media content ([[PG]] to [[X]], straight, gay, vore, scat, cub art, etc...) to be posted mixed, side-by-side on the site's single board.

Though controversial, the moderators defend this choice by reasoning that it will expose users to art or [[Artist|artists]] they would not have seen otherwise, and that because users are prone to complain about posts in categories no matter how finely they are divided, dealing with those complaints in a single board only saves the moderation team a great deal of time. And so, any future requests by users to subdivide the content of the board into smaller categories, will, as stated before (see "Policies and content",) be ignored.

=====Moderators' actions/inactions=====
Furthermore, there have been accusations of the moderating staff standing ''idly by'' in the past as a direct result of these policies, when threads have been posted that users object to, but do not necessarily break any of the site's rules, or the moderation team is slow to remove spam or invasion posts from the page. Though there have been requests by a small group of users to take down threads featuring [[Cub|cub]] or commercial work, such as work by [[Palcomix]], the moderation team does not appear to remove such material.

=====Cub art=====
When questioned in particular about 'cub porn' and the policy on the site of such material after one of many such threads caught the eye of [[CrushYiffDestroy]], the moderators of the site responded with the following:

*"''Enforcing rules based on morals is not the job of the moderators and/or administrators of an imageboard site''"
*"''If users think that a thread contains morally offensive images or text, they can sage the thread until it is permasaged into nothing"''
*''"While I whole heartedly agree that child pornography is not something that should be smiled upon, I feel that I must reinstate the fact that 'cub porn' is not child pornography"''<ref>[http://crushyiffdestroy.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2478&highlight=lulz&sid=4f2e452174093b8a828829e76302d5fb cho0b and "cub porn" art on Lulz.net]</ref>.

These policies have been in place since Lulz's inception, and, for better or worse, remain unchanged to this day.

==References==
<references/>

{{Image boards}}

[[Category:Mature image boards]]
[[Category:2006 births]]

Talk:Evil Sibe

2006-11-13T17:46:31Z

65.118.187.102: can anyone

{{featured}}

<div style="float:right; border:2px solid #bbbbbb; width:150px;">
<center>'''Discussion Pages'''</center>
*[[/Archive1|Archive 1]] (7 Sep 2005 - 26 Jan 2006)
*[[/Archive2|Archive 2]] (11 Feb 2006 - 22 Jul 2006)
</div>
'''Older conversations have been archived. Please view the links on the right review old threads.'''

== Request for removal ==

I am formally asking for my personal information and my article to be removed from WikiFur. This article is currently being used as a vehicle for attack and hatred. It is also making it difficult for me to get a job, so please lay off the wikifur article. Its also bothering my family. Thank you. {{unsigned|Sibe}}

: I am for removing his Real Name on the Article, but not the Article itself. That way, he will be able to find a job. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 19:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
: If he's paid his dues and is now earnestly trying to find a job, ditto for the above. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 20:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:Here's my thoughts on removal of Sibe's real name:
:* Time has passed. There's been a certain amount of opportunity for reflection - and, assumably, for any appropriate charges to have been delt with.
::Sibe's criminal record, spanning many years, shows that not only has he not learn his lesson from the corrections system, but he has, in fact, continued to grow in violence over the years. Of course he wants his record wiped and expunged, at least from the furry community ... but I see absolutely nothing to indicate he's done anything to wipe the slate. I've seen zero expression of remorse and, in fact, several furs continue to maintain legal no contact orders against him. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* People do change. Sibe probably isn't the guy he was ten years ago, or six months ago. The measures that were necessary then are not as necessary now.
::There's zero indication of change for the better. His record, in fact, seems to have gotten progressively worse, from assaulting his father to thumbing his nose at the terms of his probation to violent coercion. I'm sure he doesn't want to go back to prison, but I am also certain he has no sudden enlightenment in terms of respect for others or the law. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:* The fandom isn't likely to forget what Sibe did in the past - but I believe it has the capability to forgive, over time, and given no further cause to complain.
::You seem eager to, and to allow him to come in fresh to new furs from here on out whom you propose to deny the right to know about Sibe's violent convictions. Sibe has no right to keep his criminal convictions a secret, and it is in the best interests of all furries not to repress nor suppress his verified public criminal record. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sibe's under probation now. I think that it is fair enough to give him a stab at sorting out his life outside the fandom, ''provided that no further problems occur''. If he can act with a level of respect towards the other members of the fandom, '''and''' to people in general, then we can surely do the same. If not, then it is a simple enough matter to reverse the situation. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 20:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, Sibe '''violated probation''' for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison. He's now on '''parole''', and unfortunately the terms of his parole are not yet known. If they match the terms of his probation, he is violating his parole by even accessing wikifur. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Agree on removal of personal information if detrimental [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

::'''STRONGLY DISAGREE'''. Sibe is a convicted violent felon, and abiding his request to remain anonymous and to have his photo removed can have no other purpose than to allow him to befriend new furs with a new alias whom have no clue whom they are dealing with. Sibe's criminal activities are well referenced and can only be publicly verified by wikifurrians anyway if they know his real name. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::We strongly respect request for removal of personal information, except for a few very rare cases (until recently, Sibe was one of them.) At present time, Sibe has served his sentence, and has expressed a desire to try things differently. If that desire is genuine, Wikifur must respect that right of privacy. If not, his deeds will follow him back here [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 04:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Sibe is likely violating his parole even by being here, but will have to wait until the official public terms of his parole are known to find out. Even if his parole does not stipulate that he stay off the Internet (which is what his probation stipulated, which he obviously did not abide by, and that is what got him thrown in prison this time). Much of the heinous acts Sibe has committed against furries cannot see the light of this article because they cannot be verified; what he's been caught doing in his public criminal record pales in comparison, but it should be enough -- a convicted violent felony record -- that innocent furries' right to know who he is and what he is done should take precendence over his right to keep his identity and public criminal record a secret. I dare to suggest that although I seem to be the first voice of dissent against expunging his identity and/or record from the article, I most definitely will not be the last. I think Sibe's actual victims should be given time to weigh in and their opinions and concerns must be given full, due consideration. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:With the information I currently have access to, I am in favor of keep the article essentially as is. The reasons for removing the article (namely HR problems) are rendered moot as any HR dept. that is worth it's salt would perform a criminal background check. Provide case and docket numbers for x-reference on specific charges and remove victim/familial information (information is accessable if required by the case/docket number) -- leave charge and date of occurance information. Appendages to this recommendation may result as furture information is discovered/learned -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::Just for clarification, did you mean "as is" with his RL photo and identity stripped out and protected, or as it had been up until yesterday with his RL identity included? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 05:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::IRL Identity included, I don't see how it could harm this person directly with the information I currently have. I was recommending removing familial/victim information to protect the victim's privacy. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I very strongly disagree with the request for removal of the article, or removal of his real life name. Chibiabos pointed out several good points of contention on this issue. First is the fact that he has not actually served his sentence. He is still on what's called "Post Supervision Release", which is another word for Parole in the State of Oregon, for another 3 years. This is verifiable by going to the Vinelink website, choosing Oregon, and plugging in his first and last name.

Second is the fact that even if he was not on post supervision release, him being free of post supervision is irrelevant. Sibe has posted as "Ross Reddick" in several newsgroups that is linked to within the article itself, so it would be insulting to the intelligence of the readers of the article to have a prohibition on posting his real life name and then just simply clicking on a link and finding out his real life name. Unless the Wikifur Administrators intend to start removing links and cutting out information merely for the benefit of the person doing the complaining, then they should stay.

Sibe is complaining about the article resulting in it being quite difficult to find a job merely due to the Wikifur article. Again, this is an avoidance of responsibility on Sibe's part. If HR Departments are doing Google searches in newsgroups and the web, then cutting out his real life name here in the Wikifur article isn't going to do him any good, because of his notorious postings there. HR departments are wary of hiring violent felons for good reason. His violent actions against Brian Floyd was his fault. His evasion of his warrant for his arrest for over a year is his fault. He is not a good candidate for exclusion or removal of name, and the last time we hashed it out in discussion, it was agreed that this was the case. Just check the archives. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Bad faith request? ===

''See below - this interpretation was incorrect''

<s>It has been confirmed that [[User:Sibe|Sibe]] was the person who made an anonymous edit asking for clemency under the name of another person, including information on that person while doing so, three minutes before making an edit under his own name. I have blocked Sibe for the remainder of his parole for clear bad faith in editing the article about himself. There can be no assumption of good faith without trust, and I do not trust him not to try to decieve us again.

Given the situation, I can no longer recommend even the removal of his real name from the article, and so I have restored it to the previous state. Editors here were willing to give him another chance, but he blew it the moment he clicked the edit link and made the choice to impersonate another member of the fandom. That is unacceptable. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)</s>

:(?!) I must have missed something somewhere. The initial plead was by Sibe, correct?,... Who/where did he impersonate somebody?,... Just curious (same IP?) [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 07:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::There was an initial edit from [[User:71.215.148.172|71.215.148.172]], which traces to a Portland, OR locality, in which the Sibe article was blanked and replaced with a plea for the removal of personal information about people and their parents. This IP was later confirmed to be the one used three minutes later by Sibe to edit under his account. This edit has been removed from non-admin viewing, as it contains personal information about [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] (another reason to suspect Sibe), but the same IP later [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=85624&oldid=85620 removed his real name] as well. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks for the clarification *Sigh* So much for hoping for a change, so much for giving him a chance Xp [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::::OK, so it turns out that this was '''not''' what happened. I hate 3AM. :-)

::::We thought that it was "Hey, stop putting people's personal informatin into articles {Name and location of Gray Coyote as identification}" (which is where the impersonation came in). Instead, he was saying "Hey, stop putting people's personal information about people into articles {insert personal information of Gray Coyote here as a 'how do you like it'}". It looked like he was signing it, which is what caused the original interpretation.

::::So, ban reduced to 1 month for dropping Gray Coyote's information into the article for spite. The edit is still removed because it includes this personal information. This still leaves us with the question of what to do with Sibe's real name. :-) --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I vote to deny this removal request. -- [[User:Siege|Siege]]([[User talk:Siege|talk]]) 16:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC) (Sorry, forgot to login)

== What to do with Sibe's real name? ==

Good question, but as GreenReaper stated, it's late everywhere. I think we need to get everybody involved... after a nights sleep. I'm reserving my judgement on this matter at the present time, specially in light of his little "tantrum" (posting somebody's personal information because we wouldn't take his info and article down.) Will see how the whole Wikifur community goes forward with this [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 08:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:The request was made in bad faith. I reiterate my objections from above. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::This is a complete re-hash of the [[Talk:Sibe/Archive1#Exclusion|discussion that took place nine months ago]] and I don't see that anything has changed in the intervening time that would alter my opinion on the matter. The article should stand as it is written. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 11:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

== why not? ==

If you will give any other person who has an article on Wikifur the chance to have their articles wiped, then why dont you give Sibe the same courtesy? At least remove his photo and his real name.
He has been requested the article that concerns him be removed, for gods sake just honour his wishes and remove it, like you would have done for anyone else. You will do no 'civil service' by leaving it up.
It does not fall to the furry fandom to 'warn' anyone against anything he has done. Quite frankly, its none of your business. This is a wiki, not a bloody police warning system. {{unsigned|Dimruthien}}

:We don't actually grant that automatically (there is at least one case in which that has not occurrsed, [[Bart Bervoets]]). I think you are missing the point of the article, though - it's not for the police, who obviously know who he is, it's for us. It ''is'' in part a warning system - but for the furry fandom. His actions are part of our history, which is part of the purpose of the wiki. That is why I am opposed to the removal of the article in whole - because what he has done deserves remembering. It '''is''' our business, because Sibe has been bothering us as a community. Most people's actions are not wholly entwined with their identity, so they can be excluded while the information about their actions is preserved, but not Sibe.

:The question is whether or not he still deserves the courtesy of having his real name removed, or whether we should just leave it here as a deterrent to others who would seek to walk the same path. He obviously doesn't like it here, so it's reasonable to assume that others would not either. I believe the main reason not to would be because he has, at every point, failed to extend that courtersy to others. Respect is a two-way street - the whole rationale for the personal information policy is based on mutual respect. Sibe has wronged many individuals within the fandom, in some cases by doing exactly the same thing - "outing" their lives, or their livelihood - and as far as I can tell is not sorry for doing so. Indeed, his first act before even logging on was to do so once more. Now, he doesn't have to ''be'' sorry for what he does, but if he takes that position, should we grant him any concessions? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:Because, through his own actions, Sibe has become more than just an individual member of the fandom. He is perhaps one of the most infamous members thereof, and attempting to wipe this article would be wiping more than just a an article about a person, but part of the history for the furry fandom. Like it or not, Sibe pushed and exceeded the boundaries of good taste and personal behaviour within the fandom and because of him we now know where those boundaries are.

:If Sibe truly is trying to "go straight" - and this wouldn't be the first time he's said that, by the way - I salute him and wish him the best of luck in his life and future endeavours. However, one cannot simply "wipe away" the parts of history one does not like. Sibe fully understood the ramifications of his actions and now must live with the consequences of those same actions. Having an unflattering article about him - especially when it is, as far as I can tell, truthful - is one of them.

:Therefore, I must '''STRONGLY DISAGREEE''', in the strongest possible sense, with any attempts to wipe this article. I do not believe that Sibe has shown good cause as to why the article should be removed. [[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 13:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

:: I too agree. I think I can sum up the situation by saying that while we can ''forgive'', we cannot ''forget''. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 15:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Well put. I believe editing to remove any information from the current version of the article would be a disservice to everyone, and against the fundamental idea of wikis as repositories of community knowledge. Therefore I also disagree with Alohawolf's suggestion regarding the timeline, below. It's all factual, fair, useful, and public-domain information, collected in a convenient way. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 16:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could just liberally edit the article instead, remove the timeline section, which I think is inflamitory at best, and leave the article in the wiki otherwise.
--[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 09:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Sibe changed. I don't think he will ever change. BUT everybody deserves the chance to get a Job. Nobody has the right to make his Job finding more difficult that it may already be. If removing his real name from the article can help, as little as it may help, then we have to do it. Plus, if Sibe finds a Job, he will certainly learn life faster. My two cents. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 21:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Someone unilaterally decided that they were going to delete the name, without obviously reading the talk page, luckily it was reverted, though I have to address one thing that was stated as explanation for what he did: "most of what is in this article is false and very biased information." False? I don't think so. Considering the fact that everything court related based is backed up by court records and transcripts, to claim that it's false is folly.
--[[User: Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 17:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

: In [[User:FoxDiller]]'s defense, I should point that he's relatively new on here, having just started editing today. It is possible that he may have not ''known'' about the vote. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::We had an extended discussion on IRC, during the course of which I explicitly noted that there was a vote and that so far it was seven to four against. He is new to editing here, but not unaware of the current situation.

::One of his claims was that there was no basis to the claims of Sibe's attacks against his father. Perhaps we need a more specific reference for these? --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 17:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Not a problem, Greenreaper. Let's start with case cites. King County (Washington State) Superior Court case number 95-8-07446-6. This is the one where he was convicted of domestic violence against his father and lost his right to possess firearms in Washington State. The next case, KCSC# 96-08-01563-8, never resulted in a conviction, however it was again for assault on his father. He essentially had a no-bail warrant issued for his arrest in April of 1996 after disappearing, and then only came back after his 18th birthday to file a motion to quash the superior court case and warrant for lack of jurisdiction (He was now an adult legally and therefor the superior courts in Washington State had no jurisdiction over the crime). I am not sure what happened to the case afterwards, because as far as I can tell, it was never refiled in District Court against him as an adult. --[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 07:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== (VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew? ==

Aye, Nay, Abstain:

'''Aye'''. Yes, even after the "spite" incident,... If he is not truly serious about giving himself a second chance, a revert can be made [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 23:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. I don't trust him, but everybody deserves help in finding a job. --[[User:Ozone Griffox|Ozone Griffox]] 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Even if he's acting like a baby (sigh), we should be above that. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 23:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Abstain, with a twist'''. There are reasonable arguements from both sides, so I will abstrain. However, I would like to propose that IF his name is removed, we document that fact, and the reasons behind that, on the article. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:Good idea. I still hope the vote goes to "Nay", but agree re: documentation. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay''', he's expressed zero remorse and, in fact, has proven he's going to continue attacking furs, he's abused the anonymity of the Internet to hurt the furry community by pirating art and attacking individuals online and I see no reason wikifur should any more protect Sibe's real name than wikipedia should protect the Green River Killer. Further, I object to a quick vote when a lot of affected artists and others on furry wiki have not had a chance to weigh in. He has notoriety and his reputation and identity do not deserve the protection of anonymity, period. We should not be voting on this a third time anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. His actions with the edit which were later hidden makes his demand without merit. I reiterate my objections from above, there is no reason to insult the intelligence of the Wikifur readers with this request for the removal of the name will not assist him in getting a job, his own criminal record is doing that for him. This is the third time this has been discussed in regards to his name. If Bart Bervoets was denied his request, even though he hasn't recently done anything, then it should be the same with someone who did things as recent as yesterday. [[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]] 05:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Through his actions to damage both furry fandom and those within it, he has forfeited any right to anonymity. ----[[User:DuncanDaHusky|DuncanDaHusky]]([[User talk:DuncanDaHusky|talk]]) 03:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. The actions of this user do not demonstrate good faith. The request was refused ealier for reasons noted. This information is publically avaialble from other sources (Fredryk Phox, etc) and, not to be insensitive, would alienate many people if it were to be removed. The magnitude of the acts committed should also be taken into account, this person has a history of dangerous and destructive activity that members of the fandom should be able to easily find out about even if this person is using another alias/identity. -- [[User:JSharp|JaeSharp]] 04:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Of the reasons cited for, I feel that it's far less likely that a HR department will deny employment to him for a page in a wiki than, say, a criminal background check. I know it'll be possible for people to grab the information in the history either way, but given the nature of his history... I can only think that starting anew within the fandom would result in the further victimization of our fellows. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Considering how many oportunities people (and the law) has given him, and he still keeps doing his particular stuff. Id say his name should stay, at least until he proves himself he's not the same. --[[User:Cesarin|Cesarin]] 11:39, 13 September 2006 (GMT-6)

'''Nay'''. See above for the reasons. --[[User:Kiranlightpaw|Kiranlightpaw]] 17:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. WikiFur should not omit or censor widely publically avalible details about a person. Nor should past history attempt to be erased. Leave as is. --[[User:Nidonocu|Nidonocu]] - [[User talk:Nidonocu|talk]] [[Image:Trans 168.png|16px|Nidonocu]] 18:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Aye'''. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has the right to choose where their personal information be displayed. Be it a name or a photograph. [[User:Dimruthien|Dimruthien]]

: That's a new one on me. Can I get a legal citation please? (Excluding cases where posting said information is done with the intent to harass) --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 13:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

'''Nay'''. Incidentally, I believe the question was phrased in a way that encourages "Aye" votes, making the fact that the vote has slanted toward "Nay" all the more pointed. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Tally count as of Sept. 19, 2006 @ 7:19 AM (UTC):
* Aye - 4
* Abstain - 1
* '''Nay''' - 9

== Note regarding wikifur personal information policy change discussion ==

There is already an established talk page for this: [[WikiFur_talk:Personal_information]] --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 04:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

== Removal Of Personally Identifying Information ==
I am going to remove his real name from the Article, because as a furry and a proud one at that, having this kind of information, no matter who this might be is wrong. Regardless of past issues, most of what is in this article is false and very biased information. It is not the responsibility of people who have grudges against a person to be the 'warning' system, this just promotes hate and violence. I've seen time and time again where people take matters into their own hands where the results are almost disaterous. The punishment of a crime is dealt by a judge, and not a website for furry information. The only reason that this article continues to illicit ill will towards anyone, including Sibe, is to mob as a group. This should be of context of information; not bigotry. I have also removed information that has no evidence backing it up. Anyone will Google and some level of intelligence can find out facts, they don't need (and we don't need) intollerance of anything. I can't move you guys to delete the article, but I plead with you as someone who's done a lot worse in his past, but has grown from it, leave the name out. Just the name, and if there is data on Sibe, have evidence to back it up.

Things like, ''violated probation for (among other things) being on the Internet, which his probation specifically prohibited him from doing ... that's why he was thrown in prison.''
Those are aspects of the case that no-one but the Portland judicial system would understand...not some random Furry. Honestly guys, I don't want to be involed in flame wars with people, including Sibe, let's extend the olive branch and not be evil people. It's not up for us to decide if this man should be able to get a job, nor why would it be the resonsibility of the WikiFur community to decide that... Things like his badge, and his pictures, they don't have permissions to be posted? I'll remove those in one week if someone can't provide proof of permission to use those photos... Love Fox Diller, (fox@yiff.com)

P.s. Why am I doing this? Because I believe that social grace is something we can always strive for, but is not in our right to deny such to others.--[[User:FoxDiller|FoxDiller]] 17:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::Wikifur contents are not subject to the views of a single individual. Please scroll up to the "(VOTE) Should Sibe's RL name be removed from the article to give him a chance to start anew?," and place your vote so your points of views can be added to the rest of the community in deciding this matter [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 17:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::This violates the vote in progress, not to mention endangers lives by allowing Sibe to continue to offend while denying those who are unaware of him the publicly verifiable facts that he is a convicted, violent felon, and has abused anonymity and being unknown in the furry community, causing great harm. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

: Regarding the article:

:# I have reverted your edits to the article. Voting is still in progress on this issue and consensus has not yet been reached, AFAIK. Nothing sinister intended by that, but it's generally accepted practice around here to wait until voting is concluded on a disputed section of a page before modifying it. (also, please don't insert and sign comments into articles. Comments should be made on the talk pages, thanks!)
::Not to mention that the vote was going in favor of retaining the info anyway. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:# Which information in the article is "false", please?
:# This website is not "punishing" him, it is merely documenting events which have happened. If by documenting events which have happened, this causes an individual to look bad in the eyes of others, I think it is a reflection more of that individual than of the website that is documenting them.
:# You mentioned using Google to find out the "facts". Please tell us what you dug up with these Google searches. We'll be happy to add it into the article.

: Also, as someone else pointed out above, any reputable HR department is going to do a criminal background check and a credit check when hiring someone, and not paying attention to a random webpage about them. I think this wiki is the least of his problems, insofar as getting employment is concerned. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 17:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

::Plus, the motive of helping him find a job by erasing a public posting of his public criminal record so that he can deny having one is aiding and abetting fraud on the part of Wikifur anyway in my book. I see no reason to honor a request to commit fraud, even if this would be hard to prove or not stand up in court. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== Should all information not pertaining to furry be dropped? ==

A lot of the information in this article has nothing to do with furry, and (it seems) a lot to do with conducting a smear campaign against this individual. I note specifically:

:Except they are true and publicly verifiable. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

::And I discount the poster's whole line of reasoning that follows. '''Everybody's''' Wikifur page has content that's clearly "non-furry". For instance, mine goes on at length about my musical background and work life. O.K., you could argue that that's different because I wrote it. Well, let's look at a better example: [[Uncle Kage]]. He's never had a hand in the page about him, and it contains lots of "non-furry" content. I doubt you'd suggest that it be removed. --[[User:Tomhowling|Tom Howling]] 07:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

* 9 Dec 1995 and 6 March 1996: Both have nothing to do with furry and both apparently happend before he was 18, thus would under normal circumstances be expunged from his legal record.

:Except they haven't. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 20 Jan 1999: Were any furries involved in this auto accident?

:That he's violent and blatantly reckless with cars should be of great concern to anyone wanting to know him personally or meet him at a convention. If you can't understand why, then it would be wise for me to be extra cautious around you as well. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 6 Mar 2001: Nothing furry here.

:Aside from the fact this individual has been active at furry conventions and in the furry community and wants your help to return among us by having you expunge his convicted public record from furries' knowledge. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 20 Sep 2001: Again, what does his driving record have to do with anything?

:All part of his convicted criminal record. It doesn't bother you to have a violent, reckless individual attending cons? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

As far as this goes it was actually a part of the fandom as a passenger of his was/still is a furry, namely me. {{unsigned|Omenbunny}}

* 18 Mar 2002: (unaffiliated with the furry fandom): I think this says it all.

:I'm still confused as to why you want to expunge a criminal's record so he can continue to wreak serious harm on the furry community. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* May 2002: Driving record stuff again; why?

* 3 May 2002: Thus already tarred as a bad driver, Sibe is further tarred as being mentally ill. Where's the furry connection in this? Why is it presented at all?

* 5 Dec 2002: Drug use is brought up by implication; where the facts lack, innueno lies?

:You are accusing a judge of innuendos? The terms of his probation and the hearing transcript (and even the recording, actually, available from the court as an MP3 burned on CD if I recall) are the public record source of this. You seriously expect to have any credibility calling the judge a liar making an innuendo? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* Nov 2004: Is this information or stalking? Again, where's the furry connection?

:Again, Sibe places himself in the furry community. Its criminal activity by somone in the furry community and establishes Sibe has no respect for law and authority. This is very valuable information for any furry concerned for their own safety. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

* 6 Dec 2004: More driving record stuff. Maybe he drives an Audi Fox or a Volkswagon Rabbit? Not seeing the connection to furry here.

* 28 Dec 2004: Didn't see the word "furry" in there anywhere.

* Sept 2005: No furry interest that I can see?

* 5 Feb 2006: If Bound Wolf is a furry (which it sounds like), I can see this being included. Otherwise, the same question is asked: what, if anything, does this have to do with furry?

* 17 Feb 2006: The accusation is terrible, I'm glad he's not living next door to me, he's an awfully bad person, but what has this got to do with furry again?

* 7 Mar 2006: More of the same.

* 23 Mar 2006: Same questions apply.

* 1 Sep 2006: Why is this even remotely important, furry or not (and it appears to be under the catagory of not-furry)?

Sibe's not nice person, he's hurt people, he's a dick and a lot worse. He's even a criminal. But if the alleged purpose of this article is to document things that are important to FURRY, shouldn't that article stick to things that are FURRY-RELATED? Yes, this information is all based on public record, but is it equally allowable to publish the driving records and arrest records of everyone in Furry simply because they are in Furry?

:Sibe is a well known figure in the fandom, and wishes to re-enter the fandom. I'm sure he appreciates people like you trying to help him expunge his record, so the vast majority of furs won't recognize him for the violent, reckless felon that he is. He's abused the anonymity of the Internet time and time again to cause harm to a large number of furs, including artists (and by extension, those artist's fans). His criminal record establishes he has had plenty of opportunities to mend his ways from plenty of departments of justice and corrections, and he has disregarded them all. This is, in fact, exactly why Sibe not only deserves more chances, but anyone attempting to help him have another chance by wiping his record is helping put him in a position to abuse others again and bring more harm to the furry community. He abused this too many times and has gotten away with it too many times already. Why do you wish to help him get back to his pattern of increasingly abhorrent violence and abuse? --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

And as far as this goes, Sibe is most likely not a danger, part of the whole thing that caused him to go against the fandom, as well as start his whole art sharing thing was the fact that a good majority of the fandoms major artists were in essence postig copyright all over their work without any knowledge of how copyright actually works, as well as tring to be a wake-up call to a few that they should seek employment outside of drawing furry art/furry smut. His violence really has nothing to do with the fandom. And as far as the whole removing his persoal information from the web, I think it's a relatively good idea, nobody deserves to have their name, and such spread all over creation because of what they did in the past. {{unsigned|Omenbunny}}

== Note about removed timeline block ==

This block was removed, as it was not referenced:
<blockquote>'''14 September 2006''': Sibe was spotted at "Metrotown", one of the largest malls in the Greater Vancouver Regional District at aprox. 1pm. The group that spotted him consisted of three individuals, two of whom wish to remain nameless for fear of retaliation from the alleged pirate. Upon sighting Sibe, Jessy-Fox, after recovering from the shock of having sighted a convicted fellon, immediatly tried to contact mall security. Unfortunatly upon returning to the spot where they had sighted Sibe, they were shocked and awe'd to find out that he had already departed.</blockquote>
It was [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=next&oldid=86391 added by] [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Sibe&diff=86598&oldid=86586 anonymous users] (the first is probably [[Kyle Fox]]/[[User:FoxDiller]], judging by [http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:24.85.98.1&diff=prev&oldid=59628 this edit]). I have no idea if it is accurate or not. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

:That looked to me like a bad try at being funny when posted the first time. I don't think it's accurate, just me two shekels [[User:Spirou|Spirou]] 07:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::Well, in theory it is [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/faq-inadmissibility.html virtually impossible for Sibe to legally enter Canada until 2014]. It might be that he lied to get in. It might also be that it's a bad joke, or a deliberate attempt to insert misinformation. In any case, probably not a good thing to have in without any documentation to back it up. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 07:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Why would it be "virtually impossible"? Its actually "virtually impossible" to stop someone going into Canada, as the border is much larger than the Mexican border and is ignored, for the most part, even though that's the border most of the 9/11 terrorists came across. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 15:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Note "legally". Just because he has the '''ability''' to enter does not mean he has the right to do so legally. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 04:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

:::There's a less-known Vancouver, '''WA''', which is just north of the border between Oregon and Washington (directly across from Portland, OR, which is mostly in Multnomah County). While the above is certainly information of... questionable value, it does illustrate the need for usage of full place names. --[[User:DataBank|DataBank]] 11:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Yes, there is, but that's irrelevant in this case, unless the Washington city also is within a Greater Vancouver Regional District and has a Metrotown mall, which strikes me as unlikely. -- [[User:KDelany|KDelany]] 18:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

::::What's just as bad is "Washington" being given as the only place name when someone actually means the city of "Washington, DC." DC might be better known, but the state of Washington has a higher population (in total). --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 15:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

:There's nothing about such an incident on either of the local furry lists ([[vfur]] and [[vaf]]). In addition, I've not heard anything about a Jessy-Fox around here; granted a lot of people don't go to meets, but usually there's at least an introductory post or mention at some point. -- [[User:KDelany|KDelany]] 07:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

== How is this Different than [[Lance_Rund]] ==

What I would like a clear answer on how this is any different then Lance Rund, he requested a removal, for similar reasons, and it was granted.. why not grant this request as well? --[[User:Alohawolf|Alohawolf]] 23:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

: As far as I know, Lance has neither a felony record, nor has he ever pirated artwork. --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 23:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

: Because [[Talk:Further Confusion/Eyes of the Night|there]] people felt that it was not really all that relevant who the person was, while here people certainly '''do''' think that it is relevant. That discussion was actually about the removal of information from other articles, which doesn't exactly apply here, but it is a good example of how decisions are made.

:The simple reason the article about Mr. Rund (as opposed to the mention of his name in another article) was removed was becuase there was no significant complaint about doing so at the time. This tends to be the case for members of the fandom in good standing. Sibe is evidently not one of these, and there are people here that feel he does not deserve any concessions due to the nature of his actions. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 00:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if this better suited for a policy discussion elsewhere, but since we are dealing with this topic right now, what are your thoughts about a similar situation with [[Canis Claxis]] taking into account the alleged incident at [[Mephit Furmeet X]]? --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 05:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

:It's best discussed at [[Talk:Canis Claxis]], and I would suggest that following [[User:Dmuth|Giza]]'s suggestion there would be the best way to go. --[[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]]([[User talk:GreenReaper|talk]]) 05:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

== Thoughts on the Pre-age 18 charges ==
Not trying to start something here but I have the feeling I probably am, but in addition to the debate about removing personal information, what about the charges filed before he was an adult? My understanding of U.S. law regarding information pertaining to the legal situations of minors is shakey at best, but it would seem to me, that charges put against one as a minor when one is well past that age, shouldn't be appearing on a wiki - from both a moral and possibly from a legal standpoint. I move to remove those charges (and have their removal be a seperate issue from the other indictment list or the real name) - AbyssWolf
:As with all other information on Sibe, it is still publicly accessible. It is not shaky ground of any sort to post a public record. I have no idea why you feel a publicly accessible criminal record shouldn't appear on a wiki article on someone who has broad notoriety (publicity) in the community the particular wiki serves. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 03:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

: If there is a legal reason why the pre-18 stuff should not be posted, can you point us to the law in question, please? --[[User:Dmuth|Douglas Muth]] 03:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It may vary from state to state, but generally juvenile court records are kept confidential as opposed to adult cases which are a matter of public record. The philosophy behind this is the hope of rehabilitating younger offenders to turn their lives around without the stigma of a criminal record. This is why the identities of minors are usually redacted from breaking news events and it is not unheard of for the media to get in trouble for improperly disclosing juvenile records.

::This can be overidden in cases of serious violent crimes where the accused may end up getting tried as an adult anyway. For more background on this, please read the [http://www.jlc.org/index.php/factsheets/privacy Juvenile Law Center's article on Privacy in Juvenile Delinquency Proceedings]. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 06:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:::To be on the safe side, I've omitted them until someone can come up with justification for their inclusion. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 16:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Washington State does not consider juvenile records to be private. In fact, the idea of "privatizing criminal records" does not exist. The most an expungement does is allow you to say "I haven't been convicted of this crime" on most job applications. It does not, however, allow the records to be deleted, at least as far as Washington State is concerned. Anyone who can go to the King County District Courts can still get the records, they just won't show up on a WATCH check (Washington's version of NCIC).--[[User:Gray Coyote|Gray Coyote]]

:::Upon further reading, it appears Sibe's juvenile records were not expunged (cleared) from public record because he did not follow up with the court or stay out of trouble as an adult. I'll leave it up to you folks to decide whether it should be added back, but I would recommend you leave out details that did not directly result in a sentence, probation, or other juvenile adjudication. --[[User:Frizzy|Frizzy]] 17:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Again, I would like a CLEAR answer on why non-Furry information is pertinent at all, especially the stuff from his driving record. Sibe was never violent against the community, whatever else is sins are. Leave the ddos and copyright infringement in, obviously, but does it really matter that he was in a traffic accident, even if he was at fault? After all, if Sibe's information is public enough for Wikifur because Sibe's a been declared a bad person by Wikifur (yes, he is a bad person), then is it fair to post the same about Hangdog, Squeerat or Betty Roget because they're "bad people", too? Is it fair to post public information about ANYONE in Furry simply because they are in Furry, whether it's releated to Furry or not, with the decision left up to whatever whim the majority is feeling on Wikifur that day?

::::I don't like the idea that if a group of people on Wikifur decide you're fair game -- FOR WHATEVER REASON -- then you might find your own records posted online, regardless of whether they have anything to do with Furry or not. That's not providing information, that's enacting revenge. Is this really what you want Wikifur to be? [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

:::::You've ignored my replies and those of everyone else, I guess. "Sibe was never violent against the community" '''WRONG''' Sibe's reckless and violent nature is against everyone, but only against non-furs have stuck thus far. Sibe has physically and sexually abused furs, he just hasn't had a conviction. Do Hangdog, Squeerat or Betty Roget have violent felony records? Violent felon is a clear and verifiable status that Sibe meets -- he's been convicted of violent felonies and they are verifiable from public records. Why you want to allow violent, convicted felons to go to cons where they can, do and have (as Sibe did) catch furries unawares. Maintaining a careful watch and holding them accountable for their criminal records is '''justice''', not '''revenge'''. '''Revenge''' would be eye-for-and-eye, doing unto them as they have done unto others; '''justice''' is merely doing what one can to protect innocent furs from those who have caused verifiable harm to others. If a mass murderer got out of prison tomorrow and joined the furry community, hiding under a furry alias so no one would recognize them, would they have a right to demand their record be expunged from a wikifur article?

:::::It is '''not''' the duty of Wikifur to clean someone's public criminal record and hide it from the community. Sibe has caused great harm to the furry community, and when reading the wikifur article on Sibe, no one should be denied the right to know that he is a violent felon, and have specific information they could verify and look up from public records with the information in the article. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 23:58, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

::::::Chibiabos, are you claiming Sibe was actually violent in Furry? Everything I see in this article related to Furry is about copyright infringement or computer nonsense. Can you document some specific physical assault in Furry by Sibe? Can you document where Sibe "physically and sexually abused furs"? I notice you note there was no conviction, so how do we know this happend at all beyond heresay? How has Sibe "caught furries unawares" at cons? If you can't document these fairly seriously accusations, then why are you making them at all? Your whole point about including his criminal record is that Sibe has wrought a path of terror through furry when the evidence shows he really hasn't. You keep trying to link Sibe's activities outside of Furry with the things he did within it, and you're doing so with alarmist, but unsupported, claims. See also: Bush, Iraq, WMD's.

::::::Also, Justice is meted out by people who are answerable to either the law its self or to a higher authority that plays by a set of rules. If I saw some set-in-stone rules about when admission of someone's criminal record on offenses having nothing to do with furry was allowed on Wikifur, I'd feel much better about what's being done to Sibe. Again and repeatedly, '''the criminal offenses listed have nothing to do with furry, at all'''.

::::::Once you get past all the hysteria and loaded wording of the entry, all Sibe actually did IN FURRY was: 1) Engage in flamewars on the Usenet; 2) Flood some IRC channels; 3) Posted copyrighted work to pirate channels (and got sued for the same, which is the most newsworthy thing here); 5) Get banned from Something Awful; 6) Engage in some Live Journal drama; 7) Show up at some cons and get thrown out; 8) Be a general pain in the ass. That's it. [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

== General philosophy ==

Furries tend to be significantly more open and intimate with one another, and that requires trust. Someone with an established history of violence and attacks against the fandom, including defiling the intellectual property rights of struggling yet much admired artists within the fandom, has no right to hide in anonymity. The last convention Sibe was allowed to attend has closed down. Violent, convicted felons have no place in the fandom except for those who don't care.

It would be unconscionable and unfathomable to allow a person with Sibe's established history to return to the furry fandom to hurt more furries. Having been exposed to individuals in the fandom much like Sibe in their abusive and bullying natures, I have little doubt Sibe's violent, controlling side will continue to grow only worse.

There is no official authority in the furry fandom, no judge to revoke Sibe's furry license. Within the fandom, which knows no geographic nor political boundaries nor borders, the only tools we have to protect and guide ourselves and each other is knowledge and information. Wikifur is an excellent place to explore new things we might like or learn new things about areas in the fandom we thought we knew. It is also a place to learn about the pitfalls and the dangers, and whom we truly need to look out for and protect ourselves and each other against.

Why anyone wants to let someone who has abused both the anonymity of the Internet and easier flowing intimacy to gratify their violent, controlling lust is beyond me. There is an old saying -- fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Sibe forfeited the trust others placed in him, and has done nothing to deserve restoration of the trust he has betrayed. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 14:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Chibiabos,

::I agree with everything you say here, with the exceptions of trying to link Sibe's attendance with a con closing down and your unproven accusations that Sibe's been violent in the fandom (which enters "he said/she said" territory). By all means, document that which has to do with fandom and leave that which doesn't out. Ripping into people's personal lives outside of furry is a dangerous and McCarthyesque step, no matter what the offense or intention is. With Sibe, it seems pretty cut-and-dried. My worry is that anyone critical of furry will suddenly find their personal information posted here as well, and with no recourse to have it removed other than the mercy of the editors. Since there's no rules about when personal information can be posted, other than at the whim of the editors, there's nothing to stop this from being done.

::If this can be done to Sibe, it can be done to you, me, or anyone else. Justifications never lacks, nor does pettiness in Furry.

::We've both made our points now. Surprisingly, there's been no personal animosity or name-calling. This is the most important issue Wikifur will ever face, yet it was handled calmly and cooly. Score one for levelheaded discussion between opposing viewpoints. GG! [[User:66.88.135.150|66.88.135.150]]

:::Actually, it hasn't been wholly handled civilly; see Sibe's attempts to edit the article and substitute someone else's RL information for his own. You are making a dangerous stand when you personally vouch for Sibe's innocence, because I know for a fact that he is not. Inability to produce evidence does not, in fact, mean Sibe did not conduct the acts. I have no evidence to bear against my own personal abusers; that does not mean the abuse did not happen ... I simply ran and hid instead of standing my ground, thinking to preserve evidence and file criminal charges at the time the abuses occurred.

:::Regardless, Sibe's violent history is of concern to any community that tends to be a bit more lax in regards to trust, and it is not acceptable to mask his verified violent past.

:::Think of it this way, purely hypothetical ... suppose you owned and operated a jewelry store. Obviously, you'd want to have trustworthy employees ... suppose everyone you hired had signed statements to the effect that they had never been convicted for anything more serious than traffic infractions ... then suppose you found out one of those people did, in fact, have a history of shoplifting.

:::By your logic, it wouldn't matter, since they hadn't shoplifted against your specific store, so you should just let them be.

:::When it comes to violence and abuse, it is much the same -- someone has spent all of their adult life (and even prior to their adult life)

:::Put yet another way, given Sibe's conviction for what he did to his own roommate, would you roommate with him? How about sharing a room at a con?

:::I don't know what makes you believe a violent bully stops being a violent bully when they put on a furry hat. Though I've never met him, I understand Sibe is quite charming in person, which fits with my own personal abusers -- meeting them, you'd find them intelligent, charming, even social and gracious. It would be a shock to you to find out they were, in fact, abusive and controlling. You wouldn't believe it, and more to the point, wouldn't want to believe it ..... and, in fact, I believe that to be the greatest source of resistance in the fandom to guarding each other and themselves from bad people like Sibe who call themselves furry. Its the same boat the Catholic Church was in, not wanting to believe it was possible those who rose to become priests could actually rape little boys. No one wants to turn on a brother.

:::Being welcomed and accepted in the furry fandom is not a right that should be given away freely. Sibe does not have a civilized past. Its not a matter of "eww, he has a fetish for X!" ... its a matter of him, undeniably, infringing the rights of others with violence and abuse. Its not a theory, its not a wild rumor, its a convicted violent record.

:::I truly hope you do not learn the lessons I have the same way I have. I wouldn't wish that on anyone ... though at the same time, I wish you could understand the importance of not giving away trust based on blind faith, especially in the face of facts that are concernable. --[[User:Chibiabos|Chibiabos]] 02:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The thing to consider is the reality behind Sibe's situation. This is not some pack of rumors that some guy might have harassed girls at a convention, or put out herm art flyers in a hotel. The guy committed actual crimes that involved people getting hurt-- for real. Not hurt pride or hurt feelings or ruined someone's con experience, but things that involved police, lawyers, jails, courts, etc. Keeping an article such as this one in the interests of public safety might be wise. Maybe delete the actual name but keep the aliases and picture.

== Journal after release: 5 September 2006 ==
Sibe's comments on his time in prison, blames the furry fandom, and refers to a fictitious "furry gestopo"/"furry police". This is evidence on how he views what happened, what he says can be quoted from his journal.

...So as far as the stuff from the furry wiki article, for those of you who are curious about whats *really* going on, know that there have never been any charges filed or have I even ever been indicted on any type of "sex crime" of any kind. The reason for that is because I dont do that type of silly bullshit.

That all depends though if you believe in the credibility of a six foot seven, 400lb man who claims that I raped him against his will.

Me being a 6'2", 185 lb man. Anywyays.... I violated my probation and didnt show up in court, plus one of the furries showed up with a picture of me smoking weed out of a bong. It is a shame that furries are trying to make this seem worse then it is. Only 2 more felonies to go and I get life? No this isnt cali, '''oregon dosent have 3 strikes and your out.''' Thbbbbt....

...Also the pirate bay got shut down, then opened back up again. I lost about 20 lbs, I weigh around 170 now, been doing a lot of pushups and situps and dips and stuff. Also a lot of people in my life are telling me to leave the whole furry thing behind me and to move on with my life. Part of the problem there is that I always thought furry art was cool, unfortunately it is sold by furries. Not to say that there arent cool people out there, just some of them have no lives and live vicariously through making things that arnt that serious seem very serious.

What I found the most disgusting is how people celebrated my going to jail like it was some type of big thing, its not a big thing. However I wonder if those same people would have celebrated like that if they have ever been housed in a place to keep human beings inside for a long period of time.

Clearly if one inspects some of the more serious allegations against me, one would find them ludicrous. No evidence to support them, as well as the fact that Lonnie "the blob" conspired with several furries, Timba being one of them to attempt to file a report of some "rape" that happened to see if they can get one of the prosecutors to bite...

== can anyone ==

say '''CREEPY STALKING'''? [[User:65.118.187.102|65.118.187.102]] 17:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopædia Dramatica

2006-11-13T17:35:10Z

65.118.187.102: /* Criticisms of the site */ that's the point

{{LinkingSupporter}}
[[Image:EDLogo.png|frame|right|Encyclopedia Dramatica Logo]]
{{rating-nc17-button2}}
'''Encyclopædia Dramatica''' (also known as '''ED''', sometimes mistakenly called '''Encyclopedia Discordia''' or misspelt '''Encyclopedia Dramatica''') is a parody of [[Wikipedia:Wiki|wikis]] and wiki communities run by [[Girlvinyl]] and several other volunteer administrators.

* '''Address''': <nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/</nowiki>
* '''Founder''': Girlvinyl
* '''Current Owner''': Joseph Evers
* '''Administrators''': Weev
* '''Ran from/to''': December 2004 - present

==History==

Encyclopædia Dramatica was founded as "a 'funny' version of Wikipedia" after a vanity page of a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]] named [[Wikipedia:User:Jameth|Jameth]] was deleted. Several months afterward, the similar project [[Uncyclopedia]] was founded by different people. Jameth used to be an administrator on the site <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3AJameth</nowiki></ref>

==Types of content==

Encyclopedia Dramatica has been compared to a tabloid. Its articles are about drama, usually internet-related. It also adds humor. The site does have a policy against revealing real names or personal information of those it satirizes, unless the individual is a well-known by their real name. <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Basic_Rules</nowiki></ref> Things on the site sometimes are accurate and sometimes are inaccurate. <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:ED_vs._Wikipedia</nowiki></ref>. The site includes drama and satire of many types, not just furries.

The site has a large amount of pornography, particularly shock images. While a few are female, such as eighty year old women naked, most of these are male or gay porn variety; the contributors also like to use a template that makes the text into a rainbow.

==Encyclopædia Dramatica and furry==

Encyclopædia Dramatica is perhaps best known among furs for when a person hacked into [[FurAffinity]] and posted the results on ED, causing that site's shutdown.

The site's material about furries is usually the worst of the furries and also includes inaccuracies. Some consider its content [[fursecution]]. However, most of its users aren't [[anti-furry]] and ED claims it only makes broad generalizations of the furry fandom and portraits all furries as sexual deviants because it is, according to ED, far more humoring and interesting to read about something scandalous and shocking, comparing the site to a tabloid. Furries in general are welcome as long as they follow the site's policies and refrain from vandalizing the wiki.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Template:Furry/Welcome</nowiki></ref>

Besides criticizing the fandom in general, some furries use it to criticize members of their fandom that they feel make furries look bad.

The site has planned a "month of furry" for September 2006.<ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center/Archive02#Main_Page_challenge</nowiki></ref>

==FurAffinity==

In August of 2005, [[FurAffinity]] was the target of a prolonged hacking attempt against its servers. The intruders took over administrator accounts, used them to post anti-semitic messages in the administration message space (thus putting these messages on the top of every page of FA), and then taunted the community by posting passwords to the FurAffinity [[LiveJournal]]. Later, a complete list of users and their passwords was posted on Encyclopædia Dramatica; it has since been deleted.

==[[GreenReaper]]==

GreenReaper, founder of [[WikiFur]], has contributed to ED's Wikifur article <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/WikiFur</nowiki></ref>. He justifies this on the basis of "The only bad publicity is no publicity!", although particularly in reference to [[Something Awful]] (which brought major traffic and many contributors to the site).

Most of his revisions have been reverted with the rationale that he was trying to boost public perception of his own wiki.

==Image legality==

The website includes mostly images were are not free--meaning copyrighted images where the owner did not release rights. The images may count for fair use because it is a parody and satire site. Sometimes the unfree images are purely for people's user pages, which does not count for fair use. Because the website is in the united states, they also violate the communications decency act (which may be ruled unconstitutional at this time) and a recent law requiring websites to have proven through meeting their naked models firsthand that the models are in fact over 18 (this law shut a number of pornographic websites down). The website however will not allow photos of people under the age of 18.

The sites images range from ordinary (like a girl or a cat), to humorous (like pictures poking fun at George W. Bush), to insulting, to shock images (such as from shock sites).

==Criticisms of the site==

The most common criticism of Encylopædia Dramatica is that there is little editorial control; the primary forms of control are requiring registration to edit and only allowing administrators to edit articles in certain namespaces.

Some admins will occasionally ban users for being "unfunny".

The text of Encyclopædia Dramatica, unlike most wikis, is not licensed; copyright violations are common, and even encouraged. ED has threatened lawsuits with and has sent [[Wikipedia:Digital Millennium Copyright Act|DMCA]] takedown notices to Uncyclopedia and Wikipedia.

==Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur==

On several occasions since WikiFur began, some members associated with Encyclopædia Dramatica or those using Encyclopædia Dramatica as a means of organization have committed widespread vandalism to the wiki. <ref>[[User:Jewbo Wales]] on Wikifur was checkusered to 12.169.174.250, which is from John Day, Oregon, which Blu Aardvark states is his location on <nowiki>http://nextphaze.net</nowiki> and <nowiki>http://phazecomputing.net</nowiki> -- these two websites he owns also reference who he is and connect his online and offline identities. The user's vandalism also is something typical from Encyclopedia Dramatica and even has a page on their site <nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Template:Mine</nowiki>. The template was originally designed by [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Einsidler Einsidler] for the purpose of vandalising [[Wikia]]. Blu Aardvark also has made sock puppets on Wikipedia with the same names <nowiki>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Suspected_Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Blu_Aardvark</nowiki>. Blu Aardvark is also an administrator on Encyclopedia Dramatica, as seen here: <nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Listusers/sysop</nowiki></ref>

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Websites]]

Encyclopædia Dramatica

2006-11-13T17:33:21Z

65.118.187.102: /* GreenReaper */

{{LinkingSupporter}}
[[Image:EDLogo.png|frame|right|Encyclopedia Dramatica Logo]]
{{rating-nc17-button2}}
'''Encyclopædia Dramatica''' (also known as '''ED''', sometimes mistakenly called '''Encyclopedia Discordia''' or misspelt '''Encyclopedia Dramatica''') is a parody of [[Wikipedia:Wiki|wikis]] and wiki communities run by [[Girlvinyl]] and several other volunteer administrators.

* '''Address''': <nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/</nowiki>
* '''Founder''': Girlvinyl
* '''Current Owner''': Joseph Evers
* '''Administrators''': Weev
* '''Ran from/to''': December 2004 - present

==History==

Encyclopædia Dramatica was founded as "a 'funny' version of Wikipedia" after a vanity page of a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]] named [[Wikipedia:User:Jameth|Jameth]] was deleted. Several months afterward, the similar project [[Uncyclopedia]] was founded by different people. Jameth used to be an administrator on the site <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3AJameth</nowiki></ref>

==Types of content==

Encyclopedia Dramatica has been compared to a tabloid. Its articles are about drama, usually internet-related. It also adds humor. The site does have a policy against revealing real names or personal information of those it satirizes, unless the individual is a well-known by their real name. <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Basic_Rules</nowiki></ref> Things on the site sometimes are accurate and sometimes are inaccurate. <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:ED_vs._Wikipedia</nowiki></ref>. The site includes drama and satire of many types, not just furries.

The site has a large amount of pornography, particularly shock images. While a few are female, such as eighty year old women naked, most of these are male or gay porn variety; the contributors also like to use a template that makes the text into a rainbow.

==Encyclopædia Dramatica and furry==

Encyclopædia Dramatica is perhaps best known among furs for when a person hacked into [[FurAffinity]] and posted the results on ED, causing that site's shutdown.

The site's material about furries is usually the worst of the furries and also includes inaccuracies. Some consider its content [[fursecution]]. However, most of its users aren't [[anti-furry]] and ED claims it only makes broad generalizations of the furry fandom and portraits all furries as sexual deviants because it is, according to ED, far more humoring and interesting to read about something scandalous and shocking, comparing the site to a tabloid. Furries in general are welcome as long as they follow the site's policies and refrain from vandalizing the wiki.<ref><nowiki>http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Template:Furry/Welcome</nowiki></ref>

Besides criticizing the fandom in general, some furries use it to criticize members of their fandom that they feel make furries look bad.

The site has planned a "month of furry" for September 2006.<ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dramatica:Thizzlehat_Junction_Center/Archive02#Main_Page_challenge</nowiki></ref>

==FurAffinity==

In August of 2005, [[FurAffinity]] was the target of a prolonged hacking attempt against its servers. The intruders took over administrator accounts, used them to post anti-semitic messages in the administration message space (thus putting these messages on the top of every page of FA), and then taunted the community by posting passwords to the FurAffinity [[LiveJournal]]. Later, a complete list of users and their passwords was posted on Encyclopædia Dramatica; it has since been deleted.

==[[GreenReaper]]==

GreenReaper, founder of [[WikiFur]], has contributed to ED's Wikifur article <ref><nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/WikiFur</nowiki></ref>. He justifies this on the basis of "The only bad publicity is no publicity!", although particularly in reference to [[Something Awful]] (which brought major traffic and many contributors to the site).

Most of his revisions have been reverted with the rationale that he was trying to boost public perception of his own wiki.

==Image legality==

The website includes mostly images were are not free--meaning copyrighted images where the owner did not release rights. The images may count for fair use because it is a parody and satire site. Sometimes the unfree images are purely for people's user pages, which does not count for fair use. Because the website is in the united states, they also violate the communications decency act (which may be ruled unconstitutional at this time) and a recent law requiring websites to have proven through meeting their naked models firsthand that the models are in fact over 18 (this law shut a number of pornographic websites down). The website however will not allow photos of people under the age of 18.

The sites images range from ordinary (like a girl or a cat), to humorous (like pictures poking fun at George W. Bush), to insulting, to shock images (such as from shock sites).

==Criticisms of the site==

The most common criticism of Encylopædia Dramatica, other than it being filled being with falsehoods, is that there is little editorial control; the primary forms of control are requiring registration to edit and only allowing administrators to edit articles in certain namespaces. Additionally, some admins will occasionally ban users for being "unfunny".

The text of Encyclopædia Dramatica, unlike most wikis, is not licensed; copyright violations are common, and even encouraged. ED has threatened lawsuits with and has sent [[Wikipedia:Digital Millennium Copyright Act|DMCA]] takedown notices to Uncyclopedia and Wikipedia.

==Encyclopædia Dramatica and Wikifur==

On several occasions since WikiFur began, some members associated with Encyclopædia Dramatica or those using Encyclopædia Dramatica as a means of organization have committed widespread vandalism to the wiki. <ref>[[User:Jewbo Wales]] on Wikifur was checkusered to 12.169.174.250, which is from John Day, Oregon, which Blu Aardvark states is his location on <nowiki>http://nextphaze.net</nowiki> and <nowiki>http://phazecomputing.net</nowiki> -- these two websites he owns also reference who he is and connect his online and offline identities. The user's vandalism also is something typical from Encyclopedia Dramatica and even has a page on their site <nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Template:Mine</nowiki>. The template was originally designed by [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/User:Einsidler Einsidler] for the purpose of vandalising [[Wikia]]. Blu Aardvark also has made sock puppets on Wikipedia with the same names <nowiki>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Suspected_Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Blu_Aardvark</nowiki>. Blu Aardvark is also an administrator on Encyclopedia Dramatica, as seen here: <nowiki>http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Special:Listusers/sysop</nowiki></ref>

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Anti-furries]]
[[Category:Websites]]

Talk:Tail Concerto

2006-10-12T20:14:11Z

65.118.187.102: link

I made a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_Concerto Tail Concerto] article on Wikipedia, if all you... furries want to copyedit it. I think it's a lot better than the one here. [[User:65.118.187.102|65.118.187.102]] 20:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)