WikiFur - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Lion King/Who was the cub?

2010-02-28T21:58:55Z

217.173.18.179: /* Kiara or Kopa? */

Any idea what category this article should be assigned to? --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 22:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

== Doesn't matter what "fans" think ==

Facts in itself, is neutral. And it is fact that it was Kiara at the end of Lion King. Those who believe it's not is just delusional. Simba's first son dying is a big deal, or Simba having a son at all is a big deal. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED in the second movie. [[User:24.14.120.92|24.14.120.92]] 02:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Do you have a source that backs your statement up? Otherwise, this is simply your interpretation of events, and that falls outside NPOV. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 07:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, it's called The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride! [[User:24.14.120.92|24.14.120.92]] 18:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:::''Simba's Pride'' is a good enough reference for the article as written without your updates. I happen to agree that the cub at the end of TLK is probably supposed to be Kiara. Nevertheless, it is possible to make somewhat plausible arguments to the contrary (based on such things as coloration/appearance issues, canonical value of TLKSNA), and there are some fans who believe it's not her. No matter how firmly you're convinced you're right, you cannot simply dismiss that there are some who feel otherwise. --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 18:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion the idea of what is canon and what isn't is very hard to describe. A persons enjoyment of a film or book etc. is a very personal thing, and it's for this reason I feel it isn't enough for an author or director to come out and say "This is how it is, end of story." It puts it into a black and white perspective for most people. If you're a fan who thinks that cub is Kopa, if that's how you want to enjoy the film, then believe that. If you want to believe it's Kiara, believe that. As a fan you can create your own continuity. Consider if David Lynch came out and told everyone just exactly what Eraserehad was about - what fun would that be? That philosophy of deciding things as a fan for yourself can be applied to all forms of fandom. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:66.61.118.78|66.61.118.78]] ([[User talk:66.61.118.78|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/66.61.118.78|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>

Could it be that Kopa was born AFTER Kiara? I know that's weird to consider, but why is it set in stone that Simba only had one kid or that Kopa is older than Kiara? After the events of Lion King 2, he could have had another son named Kopa. It would have made more sense for Kiara to be alive and not present in the story of Kopa (maybe off with Kovu) than it would be for Kopa to have been born and not present in the story of Lion King 2. That would make Lion King 2 a prequel to the little book with Kopa in them, because technically Kopa came first, but Kiara would be older.--[[User:71.74.89.197|71.74.89.197]] 20:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

== Kiara or Kopa? ==

I personally believe that the cub at the end of ''The Lion King'' is not Kiara, but Kopa. I do realize that Disney is leading us to believe that cub is Kiara, but it honestly doesn't make all that much sense. If the cub is Kiara, than why is she presented to the Pridelands a '''second''' time in ''Simba's Pride''? Also, Disney leaves out the crucial information about why Zira and some of the other lionesses were banished. It seems to me that if we add Kopa into the equation, everything makes more sense. Perhaps the reason we don't see him in ''Simba's Pride'' is because he was killed by Zira, possibly with the help of the other banished lionesses. And based on Zira's personality, we can all safely say she is one to hold a grudge, and she will crave revenge. Who is to say that before she tried to kill Simba to avenge Scar, she killed Kopa. Simba could've caught Zira (and possibly other lionesses) after she (they) killed Kopa, and perhaps '''that''' is why they were sentenced to exile. Maybe Zira was trying to get revenge on Simba for banishing her '''and''' avenge Scar in ''Simba's Pride''. Who could say that doesn't make sense, and maybe it's a good possibility? --[[User:Brigirl9|Brigirl9]] 19:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually the whole speculation is pointless. "Simba's Pride" contains many serious plot holes and internal contradictions that is not accepted as "real" sequel by many fans. Animation team couldn't draw even Simba and Nala correctly. So any violations of original movie's plot (no room for Zira and her gang) or character models can be explained with negligence of "Simba's Pride" team.

Personally me hate "Simba's Pride" and I don't care how many pages of another stupid explanation would write another stupid fan who doesn't understand 3 simple things:
1) Any important thing in movie's universe must be shown.
2) Disney doesn't care about such "stupid things" how huge plot holes characters' model violations and what fans would think.
3) Zira can do anything but any crime doesn't explain where her other lionesses were. Scar could have a wife or girlfriend she can be angry and would be exiled just after Scar's death. No problems with it. But TLK strongly suggest that there was no strong support for Scar among lionesses and even hyenas started to complain otherwise there would be no sense and no chance for Simba to deal with the hyenas and another pride as big as his own. SP rapes TLK's plot in totally pervert way.

Talk:The Lion King/Who was the cub?

2010-02-28T21:49:11Z

217.173.18.179:

Any idea what category this article should be assigned to? --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 22:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

== Doesn't matter what "fans" think ==

Facts in itself, is neutral. And it is fact that it was Kiara at the end of Lion King. Those who believe it's not is just delusional. Simba's first son dying is a big deal, or Simba having a son at all is a big deal. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED in the second movie. [[User:24.14.120.92|24.14.120.92]] 02:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Do you have a source that backs your statement up? Otherwise, this is simply your interpretation of events, and that falls outside NPOV. [[User:CarlFox|Carl Fox]] 07:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, it's called The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride! [[User:24.14.120.92|24.14.120.92]] 18:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:::''Simba's Pride'' is a good enough reference for the article as written without your updates. I happen to agree that the cub at the end of TLK is probably supposed to be Kiara. Nevertheless, it is possible to make somewhat plausible arguments to the contrary (based on such things as coloration/appearance issues, canonical value of TLKSNA), and there are some fans who believe it's not her. No matter how firmly you're convinced you're right, you cannot simply dismiss that there are some who feel otherwise. --[[User:Mwalimu|mwalimu]] 18:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion the idea of what is canon and what isn't is very hard to describe. A persons enjoyment of a film or book etc. is a very personal thing, and it's for this reason I feel it isn't enough for an author or director to come out and say "This is how it is, end of story." It puts it into a black and white perspective for most people. If you're a fan who thinks that cub is Kopa, if that's how you want to enjoy the film, then believe that. If you want to believe it's Kiara, believe that. As a fan you can create your own continuity. Consider if David Lynch came out and told everyone just exactly what Eraserehad was about - what fun would that be? That philosophy of deciding things as a fan for yourself can be applied to all forms of fandom. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:66.61.118.78|66.61.118.78]] ([[User talk:66.61.118.78|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/66.61.118.78|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>

Could it be that Kopa was born AFTER Kiara? I know that's weird to consider, but why is it set in stone that Simba only had one kid or that Kopa is older than Kiara? After the events of Lion King 2, he could have had another son named Kopa. It would have made more sense for Kiara to be alive and not present in the story of Kopa (maybe off with Kovu) than it would be for Kopa to have been born and not present in the story of Lion King 2. That would make Lion King 2 a prequel to the little book with Kopa in them, because technically Kopa came first, but Kiara would be older.--[[User:71.74.89.197|71.74.89.197]] 20:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

== Kiara or Kopa? ==

I personally believe that the cub at the end of ''The Lion King'' is not Kiara, but Kopa. I do realize that Disney is leading us to believe that cub is Kiara, but it honestly doesn't make all that much sense. If the cub is Kiara, than why is she presented to the Pridelands a '''second''' time in ''Simba's Pride''? Also, Disney leaves out the crucial information about why Zira and some of the other lionesses were banished. It seems to me that if we add Kopa into the equation, everything makes more sense. Perhaps the reason we don't see him in ''Simba's Pride'' is because he was killed by Zira, possibly with the help of the other banished lionesses. And based on Zira's personality, we can all safely say she is one to hold a grudge, and she will crave revenge. Who is to say that before she tried to kill Simba to avenge Scar, she killed Kopa. Simba could've caught Zira (and possibly other lionesses) after she (they) killed Kopa, and perhaps '''that''' is why they were sentenced to exile. Maybe Zira was trying to get revenge on Simba for banishing her '''and''' avenge Scar in ''Simba's Pride''. Who could say that doesn't make sense, and maybe it's a good possibility? --[[User:Brigirl9|Brigirl9]] 19:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually the whole speculation is pointless. "Simba's Pride" contains many serious plot holes and internal contradictions that is not accepted as "real" sequel by many fans. Animation team couldn't draw even Simba and Nala correctly. So any violations of original movie's plot (no room for Zira and her gang) or character models can be explained with negligence of "Simba's Pride" team.

Personally me hate "Simba's Pride" and I don't care how many pages of another stupid explanation would write another stupid fan who doesn't understand 2 simple things:
1) Any important thing in movie's universe must be shown.
2) Disney doesn't care about such "stupid things" how huge plot holes characters' model violations and what fans would think.

The Lion King/Who was the cub?

2010-02-28T21:40:07Z

217.173.18.179:

Before [[Disney]] released any information about the sequel that would eventually become ''[[Simba's Pride]]'', the cub of [[Simba]] and [[Nala]] who appeared at the end of ''[[The Lion King]]'' was the source of much speculation and a character in many works of [[fan fiction]].

For the most part it was assumed the cub was male, and various names for him/her were said to have come from Disney sources. ''Fluffy'' was the name given to it by the animators during the production of ''The Lion King'', according to the director's commentary on the LaserDisc edition (and later on the DVD release) but this was just a convenient way to refer to an unnamed character. Some months after the release of the movie, he appeared in a series of children's books entitled ''[[Wikipedia:The Lion King: Six New Adventures|The Lion King: Six New Adventures]]'' where he was named [[Kopa]] and was the main character of one of the books, ''Vulture Shock''. It appears, however, that these books were either disregarded by or unknown to the developers of ''Simba's Pride'' (the books are not entirely consistent with each other on unrelated points). Two other names said to be considered for him during production of the sequel are Naba and Chaka, and for a while it appeared the latter was going to be the name of choice. Chaka was described in March 1997 as "at this point the closest thing to an official Disney name for the cub".<ref>[http://www.lionking.org/text/Encyclopedia.txt The Unofficial Lion King Character Encyclopedia] March 1997 Edition at lionking.org. Retrieved July 25, 2006.</ref>

As story development continued, Chaka got a sister, ''Shani''. Shani soon overtook Chaka in importance to the story, while Chaka became more marginalized and eventually was written out of the story altogether. With the cub now a female, other possible names for her that were said to be considered were ''Aisha'' (also a [[Neopets|Neopet]]), ''Nunka'', and the one finally chosen for her, ''[[Kiara]]''.

All of this took place over a period of about four years. Fans of the movie didn't wait around that long and soon came up with their own ideas about who the cub was. The most popular non-canonical name for the cub was ''[[Tanabi]]''. Other names were proposed in various works of fan fiction for the cub, who was usually male and sometimes part of a litter that included other cubs, but Tanabi was by far the most widely used name.

Some fans have suggested that the cub at the end of the first movie is not Kiara at all but is in fact Kopa or Tanabi, noting that the appearance and coloration of the cub at the end of the first movie don't entirely match the appearance of Kiara (male and female lions were given different color schemes respectively), and/or citing ''The Lion King: Six New Adventures'' as a canon source. Some have attempted to reconcile the discrepancy by suggesting he may have somehow died or been killed at a young age, possibly by [[Zira]]. Other possibilities include being kidnapped by a lioness of a different pride and taken as her own child. No official statement has been made by Disney regarding the identity of the cub at the end of the first movie. The majority of fans consider it reasonably clear in ''Simba's Pride'' that Disney meant for us to accept that Kiara was in fact the cub we saw at the end of ''The Lion King'', but some fans object that Kiara couldn't possibly be the cub at the end of ''The Lion King'', that would mean she was presented before the pridelands twice, once at the end of ''The Lion King'' and a second time at the beginning of ''Simba's Pride''.

Actually the whole speculation is pointless. "Simba's Pride" contains many serious plot holes and internal contradictions that is not accepted as "real" sequel by many fans. Animation team couldn't draw even Simba and Nala correctly. So any violations of original movie's plot (no room for Zira and her gang) or character models can be explained with negligence of "Simba's Pride" team.

== References ==
<references/>