User talk:Andy Dingley

Equivamp 15:01, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Exclusion of steampunk
I'm curious as to why you've just reverted my whole edit contribution so far.

Have you seen the edit history for Steampunk? It was deleted years ago, quite reasonably, because there was a bigger and possibly better article at wikipedia:Steampunk. However this "manual redirect" was never coded so that links can then work properly. Articles that referred to it, such as Grandville, then had to hard-code the redirect on each article. This is just poor use of MediaWiki.

You deleted the redirect on the grounds that off-wiki redirects were against Wikifur practice. This is simply untrue: it's what's implied by the deletion comment for the old Steampunk article and, more obviously, it's what you did yourself when you re-added the redirect in Grandville. Using a redirect page is simply good practice for MediaWiki - it centralises the redirect so that all WikiFur links to steampunk go through one clear article on it. This can be either local or, as here, a remote article at Wikipedia.

If there's a ban on links that redirect to Wikipedia, then that should be removed from Grandville.

If there's a ban on off-wiki redirects other than those to Wikipedia (using Wikipedia as a back-end for common terms is well-established practice on many, of not most, wikis) then that ban needs to be clarified. As it is, many terms and not just Steampunk are using redirected links like this. Andy Dingley 17:42, 16 May 2011 (EDT)


 * No, I did not remove your edit to Steampunk because (in your words) "off-wiki redirects were against Wikifur practice". I removed it because there was nothing else in the article but the redirect, and that is just not how things are done here. If you feel there is a poor use of WikiMedia you are welcome to take it up with GreenReaper.--Higgs Raccoon 17:52, 16 May 2011 (EDT)


 * So why is there now no content at all under Steampunk? If off-WikiFur redirects are a problem, then the article shouldn't have been deleted in the first place.
 * Or is steampunk just one of those topics that isn't to be talked about at WikiFur?
 * The sad thing is that I'm only here because I've been dragged into a political bunfight within the UK steampunk community about the appropriateness of Fur. There is a widely held view that there isn't any place for it, a view I see as narrow-minded on the part of those steampunks. When pushed, they defend this on the basis of "You don't want to get involved with those Furries, they'll turn and bite you" (not a view I've ever held). Yet moments after I turn up and start trying to expand Steamfurry coverage here, I do indeed find that they're pounced on and reverted, and the steampunk article blanked entirely! Do I have to admit I was wrong here and that it's not the Steampunks who have a problem with Fur, it's the Furries who have the problem with Steampunk?! Andy Dingley 18:06, 16 May 2011 (EDT)


 * So why is there now no content at all under Steampunk? If off-WikiFur redirects are a problem, then the article shouldn't have been deleted in the first place.
 * There is currently no content at Steampunk because (...looks at deleted content...) the original article there was not deemed appropriate for WikiFur. It was a nice potted description of Steampunk but "furry" was not even mentioned. Hence it was not considered relevant for WikiFur, especially since nothing was said that Wikipedia did not already cover more fully.
 * That deletion was in 2006. That was a while ago, so if, since then, there has been more overlap between the two fandoms, then it may be appropriate to have a Steampunk article on WikiFur. But it would need to be written in such a way that makes it relevant. (ie detailing the crossover between the two genres and emphasising the "steamfur" aspects not covered in other wikis.)--Higgs Raccoon 18:43, 16 May 2011 (EDT)


 * I don't think we have any "problem" with steampunk. However, the topic also has no clear relevance to furry fandom, and Wikipedia has a quite adequate article on the topic. In such situations - to avoid useless duplication of effort - we instead link directly to Wikipedia, and require that any article created be restricted to matters which relate directly to furry fandom. The article which once existed on the topic did not contain any such material, and so it was deleted. If you would like to create an article detailing the influence of steampunk on furry fandom (or vice versa), you are welcome to do so. But do it first. Creating a redirect and changing articles which currently use a direct interwiki link to point to that redirect merely adds a needless level of indirection for readers, and so decreases the quality of those articles. That is why your change was reverted. --GreenReaper(talk) 19:38, 16 May 2011 (EDT)


 * If you know anything about the furry fandom + steampunk in general runs, and how sub genres or sub genres emerge like "Dieselpunk", "Neopunk" and how furries like to add "fur" in-front of anything, it would make sense to refer to "steamfur", as "Steam-Furpunk" or just a sub genre or cross over genre of "Furpunk", a term I coined to express how I felt a Steam/Furry cross over would work, and as I'm starting to get into this area heavily with 3D & research I would like to write the article up on Furpunk in the future. --Bunjie 09:09, 17 May 2011 (EDT)


 * As for what steampunk people think of furries I don't care and neither should anyone else, I won't be pushed out of a steamcon or furcon that I might attend in the future due to some internal "hate" and "anti-fur" drama squabbles over what some idiots think, and if steampunk or furries won't recognize "furpunk" as a valued sub genre that started to emerge the moment story's and movies used clockwork animals in any shape or form, well they're just retarded and I'll sure as hell won't stop until they're forced to recognize it if not just through my own artistic achievement. --Bunjie 09:09, 17 May 2011 (EDT)


 * Also Andy add me on Msn or Skype:(furpunk) if you wish, I'd like the contact from you in the future if you are who you say you are. --Bunjie 09:09, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

Re: Welcome Reply
All right, cool! I'm not really sure what "steampunk" is, exactly, but if it doesn't really apply to furry, that's probably why the page was deleted. Would you mind explaining to me what it is, and the connection between the two? I may be able to help defend your cause, if so. (I'm welcome to making this wiki as extensive as possible.) Equivamp 18:51, 16 May 2011 (EDT)