Talk:History

This article should probably replace the existing entry for "furry fandom", or at the very least become a History subsection within it -- 2005-08-31T02:47


 * I don't know . . . I can see it getting super-big, like the history page over at Creatures. -- 03:04, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I suppose it's a matter of needing more and less detailed versions of the same topic. Perhaps a single paragraph summary in a section under "furry fandom", linking out to an exhaustive "furry fandom (history)" article, which itself then links out to any other article with a substantial History subsection? The other thought I'm having is to create a Category:Historical_Events, but that seems less intuitive because events are usually mentioned in passing by other articles rather than being topics on their own. -- 2005-08-31T03:58

As this article develops, I think it'll be important to mention Albedo and certainly alt.fan.albedo, generally regarded as the start of the on-line fandom. I'm afraid I don't know the dates, so I can't do this myself. Tevildo 14:10, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

APAs Vs Fanzines
I believe it is important to clarify the differences between APAs and Fanzines. APA stands for Amateur Publishing Association and is basically a closed-membership group that produces a collated magazine made up of contributed articles by the membership of the APA. The total number of copies of the completed magazine seldom exceeds that number of members in the group. This means that an APA is not available to anyone outside the closed membership of the group producing the APA. Rowrbrazzle, and Vootie before it were APAs, and only a few extra copies of each publication were available to non-members.

A Fanzine is a magazine produced by fans for fans. It can be produced by a single person or a group, but copies are available for sale to other fans. Often Fanzines are produced along the lines of regular magazines, with articles, stories and art being selected by the editorial staff and the 'zine produced by the publishing staff. Fanzines that are created by single individuals are often considered in the "vanity" category, while the other type are called "Collection Fanzines" or Genzines. Rowrbrazzle and many other furry publications are APAs, which have a closed membership that never exceeds a certain number of persons. Therefore, the number of copies of each collation seldom exceeds the total number of members. It is impossible for fans who are not members of the APA to obtain a copy on an APA, unless there are extra copies available, or a member gives away or sells his copy. FurVersion, Yarf and some other furry magazines are "collection" zines, and are produced in quantity to sell to fans, either by subscription or directly, usually at conventions.

APAs and Fanzines should not be considered in the same light as APAs are not available to the Fandom at large. --


 * I have to say, APAs seem very strange to me. Perhaps it's because I've grown up in the digital age, where the cost of reproduction and distribution really isn't a big deal - it just seems very odd that people would restrict publication to just the group who were making it. -- 04:41, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * It's true; they're very much a product of a time with different technology. I did a little bit of tweaking with the APA article and added a paragraph contrasting them with zines and trying to explain the social mechanics. -- 12:03, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, the whole thing is rather more complicated than that. Not all non-vanity 'zines are collection zines, not all collection zines are genzines. There are also anthology zines, which publish fiction and art but do not publish articles or reviews, then there are special interest versions of all of the above. And then there are APA-zines. North American Fur is an APA-zine, where a large number of extra copies of each issue are published for sale. As to APAs seeming weird, just think of them as a paper version of a closed mailing list. The goal was usually to generate comment and critique. The best APAs were safe places to get honest assessments and pointers about your work. And yes, I will write up some of this into appropriate articles as soon as I can. --

Back in the OLD days...
Actually, a lot of the misunderstandings and pervasive misinformation that have plagued Furry are becasue of a lack of knowledge of the history of Fandom, in general. SF-F cons were, in addition to other things "wild parties". Furry Cons were a direct offshoot of these cons, since they were started by people with years of experiance in SF-F cons. Most of the Furs attending Furry cons had no experiance with such gatherings, and were often confused and shocked by what they saw. It may be impossible to change opinions, and nothing can be done to erase the misinformation that is archived on the web, and which is still used to slander the fandom. But... if we have accurate information available HERE, at least there is some place for people to find out the truth.

Definition of fandom
The article currently says, “A fandom cannot exist without communication and some form or contact between its members.” This is not a proper definition of  fandom. The standard definition of fandom is “All the fans of a sport, an activity, or a famous person.” This is all the fans, whether they know each other or not, and even if one is completely isolated. As long as you are heavily into something and a consumer of the products, you’re considered part of the fandom. Thus, there has been a furry fandom as long as there have been fans of furries.

What can not exist without contact between fans is a community. Thus it is the general furry community that you are really referring to here, rather than the fandom.

My research indicates the actual fandom to date back to the 1900’s, possibly even much earlier. Actually there is now a news article with Uncle Kage stating that Aesop’s Fables was the start of furry fandom. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06169/699273-51.stm Perri Rhoades 12:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Agree (Split)
It should be its own standalone article Spirou 07:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite
I wrote most of the stuff that I'm messing with here. I think it's a bit long winded and could afford to be trimmed. And I may have some more recent discoveries that need to be included.

Opening statement. I expect there'll be some debate about this. But I'm taking out the bit about philosophy and lifestyle as that actually should be in the lifestyle article. Historically, because of what happened on AFF, lifestyle and fandom are different subjects. So this opening statement should just say what the fandom is.

Taking out the use of the term "Genre," as that term is in dispute and I've been unable to defend it. The term "Interest" seems more accurate.

"APAs and fanzine "wars" became popular, with mail-in art and comic contributions collated and distributed to all members." Not sure what this means. Needs to be rewritten so it makes sense to the uninitiated. But I'll leave that for someone who knows what it's about.

Merging the timeline with the above info to reduce redundancies and hopefully make the over all article easier to follow. Plus I'm linking my off-site timeline to the article which is more expansive and detailed. Y'all can contribute suggestions to it if you want. Hope to get everything in eventually.

"At the 2006 Westercon in San Diego, a 20th anniversary furry party was held." What was the event in 1986 that they considered the starting point for the fandom? Perri Rhoades 08:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Morgan: A Suitable Case for Treatment
This British comedy/satire from 1966 is the earliest sighting of a furry I could find. At one point the main character even says "I've gone all furry".