Template talk:Conventions/Archive

I suggest removing proposed and cancelled conventions from this template. It's huge! -- Sine 17:51, 2 June 2011 (EDT)

Agreed. Maybe there should be a different template for proposed conventions. Equivamp 17:53, 2 June 2011 (EDT)

Concur. That template is waaaay too overpopulated. A simple link to planned conventions would be better. --CodyDenton 00:07, 3 June 2011 (EDT)

Considering how overwhelming this template is, what about putting it on Category:Events and Category:Conventions, and not on articles? -- Sine 18:21, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Personally I like being able to navigate between conventions from a convention's main page, which I do quite a bit in trying to keep those articles up to date. I do agree it shouldn't be on year-specific convention articles, but I do see utility for them to be on the main convention article itself. BlueOtter 12:17, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

I would like to suggest we define better what can be in this template. Utah Furries was added, which I disagree with since it is a monthly regional meet. Mwalimu removed it, but I understand why it may be confusing. The title of the template states "Conventions, furmeets and other annual/periodic events". There are 6 events with a variation of "Furmeet" in their name, but they truly are conventions or events that happen no more than four times a year (all are annual except for Elliott's Live Events, which happens quarterly). I think for this reason, the title of this template should be retooled to read "Conventions and other annual/quarterly events" to keep others from adding local meetups by accident. Thoughts? BlueOtter 12:17, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Having maintained some of the articles and templates that list multiple conventions, I've given some thought to what should qualify as a "convention" for the purpose of inclusion in such lists. There are a few in those lists now which I consider questionable but have kept them in the lists for the time being, Delaware Furbowl and New Years Furry Ball being among them. Name shouldn't be an overriding factor either; Mephit Fur Meet might be a furmeet in name but by any reasonable standard it qualifies as a convention. I went to an MFF/LAFF softball picnic last summer that probably had over a hundred attendees, several fursuiters, and one picnic table where several artists were doing badges and commissions. I would never consider it a convention, yet it sounds like some of the meets people are trying to include on Wikifur as conventions aren't much more than that.

Offhand, some of the things that would qualify a gathering as a convention would be the following:

• Open to all comers, no membership or invitation required;
• Has a formal registration process;
• Is staffed to handle such things as security, first aid, facilities liaison, and so forth;
• Runs for at least one full day and night and is co-located with lodging facilities;
• Has a planned schedule of events and activities including an official start and end;
• Provides multiple options for concurrent activities;
• Formally supports buying and selling of goods and commissions.

Not all of these would be strictly required but I think to be considered a convention it should meet most of these criteria. We should also be more relaxed/flexible when it comes to gatherings in parts of the world where the furry community is still in a fledgling stage, and historically with regard to certain conventions that started out small and informal but later grew into full-fledged conventions. If some upstart convention in Brazil doesn't come close to meeting the above criteria but is the biggest thing to happen in that part of the world, we at Wikifur should do what we can to support it, but a similar-sized gathering in the US within easy driving distance of multiple conventions doesn't need the same kind of support.

Just my $.02. Interested to hear what others think. --mwalimu 13:33, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Great thoughts and start. :) Outdoor conventions like Oklacon are unique in that their lodging may be in the form of tents, sometimes don't have concurrent event structures, but instead do have scheduled events, and may not have any formal way to buy or sell goods. Also, some conventions' organizing committees are structured as 501(c)(7) social clubs, which require a certain percentage of revenue to come exclusively from club members. The way these organizations work is to portion a trivial amount, like $5 of registration for the purchase of a 'membership' upon registering, which makes everyone attending meet this requirement; I agree that private clubs don't make the mark for convention status, though. I would also suggest that a convention requires at least two-full days of activity, and that annual single-day large meetups don't qualify as conventions. If I might take a stab at it, I think I'd edit your list to read as follows:

• Open to all comers; no invitation and no selection and approval process is required;
• Has a formal registration process and charges a fee for preregistration or entry;
• Has an organizing body that assigns individuals to specific roles, such as as security, first aid, facilities liaison, and so forth;
• Has a planned schedule of events and activities including an official start and end, which runs for at least two full days and one night;
• Provides events programming that promotes the creation, exchange, and/or understanding of anthropomorphic art or the appreciation of general elements of the furry fandom;
• Has overnight accommodations or lodging facilities

I know some outdoor camping events would fail to meet even this criteria, and honestly I think those are more like 'furmeets' for categorization purposes. Thoughts? BlueOtter 15:15, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

Outdoor conventions are a good example of why we need to be flexible about what is considered a convention - they have attendance figures in the hundreds, have a registration process, go for at least a couple of days, and are annual events. Conceivably, other types of events such as a cruise or ski vacation might also qualify if they have high enough attendance numbers (as long as the nature of the event effectively limits them to under 50 attendees, I don't think we should bend over backwards to qualify them as a "convention"). Frequency is another criteria to look at. Annual events clearly qualify, and semi-annual events probably should too. Quarterly events are more iffy but the consensus so far, at least in the case of Elliott's Live Events, seems to be to allow them. I really don't think a monthly event such as Delaware Furbowl should count as a convention, though I might be convinced otherwise if it overwhelmingly meets the other criteria being discussed here. I'd also rephrase the lodging requirement somewhat; it's not necessary that it take place somewhere with lodging facilities so long as they are available in the immediate vicinity and a coordinated part of the convention planning. --mwalimu 14:49, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Agreed. To clarify my statement about "I know some outdoor camping events would fail to meet even this criteria", I was referring to small 10-20 person annual meetups, but by the standards we've both proposed, outdoor events like Oklacon or Campfire Tales would qualify. I agree with you bowling events don't really count because there's not really "event programming" or "security / first aid / etc" roles. BlueOtter 14:55, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

Elliot's events seem to have moved to a semi-annual schedule anyway. I imagine a large event every three months is a little too much to organize, even if you have the cash! --GreenReaper^(talk) 15:02, 20 July 2011 (EDT)

I would suggest Omnicon doesn't meet the criteria for this template as a Convention because it is by invitation only, also because it cannot be verified it has occured as an annual or periodic event -- it appears to have only one iteration, more like a one-time party. BlueOtter 00:50, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

I don't think being an annual or recurring event is strictly a requirement; an event that is one time only by design could still qualify (and we certainly don't disqualify events that had been planned to be annual events but ended up happening only once, such as Nakamacon). But being by invitation only is a deal breaker, especially one with only 15 people in attendance. --mwalimu 11:02, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

Agreed, I just suggest that such events that are not annual or at least recurring shouldn't qualify for this particular template which is a footer of many conventions, though I agree, they are still 'Conventions' by definition. It was a pleasure meeting you in person at MFM, by the way. :) BlueOtter 11:13, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

Okay, now I'm with you. I agree that one-off events shouldn't be in the template. There's a couple of others still there now that are candidates for removal: PafCon appears to have never materialized; the original announced date is long past and the website is inaccessible; and Cape May Fur Meet, which although it continues to take place, has devolved to the point where it no longer meets any reasonable definition of a convention. And I enjoyed meeting and talking with you as well. --mwalimu 13:00, 8 September 2011 (EDT)

Ongoing only

Per above discussion, I've removed proposed events from this large template. If someone cares to create a template specifically for proposed conventions I for one will be sad. At the least I recommend that such a template adds some material rather than being a manual list of Category:Proposed conventions, for example like this template being sorted geographically. -- Sine 01:35, 10 December 2012 (EST)