Talk:Zoot-sex

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Usage[edit]

Do people actually use the term "zoot sex"? Looking around, I don't see too many examples that don't link back to WikiFur. I think this may be a constructed term and should be moved to fursuit sex. --GreenReaper(talk) 16:05, 24 June 2014 (EDT)

The Pre/Post Google effect. Many of the old, original furry terms, events, other,... came to be pre-internet, or during the newsgroups, IRC, BBS era, before Wayback or Google. The term was widely used during the mid 90s, actually as a widely used joke term. Of all people, Handog, of Burned Fur fame, started to use it as a derogatory term on a fight in the BF forums between him and xydexx, and it stuck.
But, unfortunately, now (with anything, not just furry) is "Google hits or it never happened"(*) (not saying it is not one of our most valuable ref tools, but). I will look through my files for any saved data on the term to reinforced the article's validity.
(*) Example/point: "The Couch". A very well known term that originated pre-internet, used first in an incident at Confurence 1, common on BBSes and early forum, or drop in today (2014) on Furnet's #furry channel and mention the term... Can't start an article about it due to no digital recorded hits anywhere (not the same "couch" as the Couch Tour, and I'm also having trouble finding enough refs to keep that historical furry term) - Spirou (talk) 19:30, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
If it's not currently the usual term, we should probably not use it as the title of an article which has become more about the topic of fursuit sex in general; but we should preserve it as a redirect and within the article as a historical note, just like an old name. (The "terms" categories would then belong on the redirect's page, because "fursuit sex" is merely descriptive.) Alternatively, we could have fursuit sex (or fursuit#Sexuality) and retain zoot-sex restricted purely to documenting the term during the period it was in use. --GreenReaper(talk) 19:41, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
The counterargument will be that Zoot-sex came to be as a historical reference term on its own before even the sexual connotation was applied to it. Because it's not "current", I don't see what it shouldn't stand as a historical entry on it's own article. It tells the reader what this particular entry was and came about, not a small footnote within another article. In other words, Zoot-sex is an "historical recorded furry term", "fursuit sex" is an acknowledged common act,... and that is if we assume that the term is not in use today (a trip at the latest Califur, helping a fursuiter friend, did not prove the act of the term's demise. Further discussions at diners/trips at the L.A. garment district indicated that this word was the preferred "polite" way to describe "Fursuit S*x" in this community).
Not that the alternatives provided are not logical or unworkable, but the point of preservation is more of how to be current information while acknowledging valued (assumed) past data. My 2 cents on the matter, as I cannot override final decisions. - Spirou (talk) 20:25, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
It has absolutely been used; here's a good example. But it appears to have largely died off with alt.*.furry. I cannot speak to its use in LA, though it would make sense for it to be retained by those who were active on newsgroups. It'd be fine to mention it in that context, clarifying that it is known within this group. The half-life of a furry is less than five years; most fans are unlikely to have heard of it, and we shouldn't encourage readers to think it has general currency by putting it in article titles for general topics . . . or as an equal in the lede. It can lead to us influencing usage elsewhere. --GreenReaper(talk) 02:15, 26 June 2014 (EDT)